Finally made it _here_, this has to be it.

[Foggled]

Hi,

I'm 42, male and started having extreme brainfogs about 3 years ago. At first I didn't really understand something was wrong, I just thought I was tired due to lack of sleep or something and just "lived with it". After a while having this problem on and off I started realising this wasn't just something due to lack of sleep because my symptoms got worse when I made an effort to sleep more.

Aside from the actual brainfogs, my main symptom at first appeared to be infected sinuses and pressure behind my eyes (which I thought were caused by the infected sinuses) so I went to several sinus specialists, had multiple exams, including (brain) MRI's but they simply couldn't find anything. I had all (conventional) allergy tests done but I'm not allergic to anything. My blood tests all came back normal, ... in short, there's was nothing they could find.

After a while I also started having muscle pains (or rather realised there was a connection with the brainfogs), mainly neck, shoulders and upper back. So I went to physiotherapy, had massages every week for half a year but none of it had any real effect. Then last year when the shoulder/neck pain became unbearable I went to the doctor and she prescribed Diclofenac and lo and behold 24 hours later my brainfog was 100% gone. I took it a few weeks and the brainfog appeared to have been gone completely during that time but after stopping the Diclofenac after a few weeks, the brainfog came back. I started the Diclofenac again but somehow its effect had worn off and it didn't really help anymore.

Starting from scratch again trying to figure this out, I ended up on r/brainfog on reddit and ran into a thread about TMJ (Temporomandibular joint dysfunction - https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/temporomandibular-disorder-tmd). This actually made a lot of sense for my symptoms and after a while, I had traced the potential cause of that back to performing oral sex, which I stopped entirely and I also had a mouthpiece made (to prevent potential teeth grinding) to sleep with. Again my brainfog went away, which lasted 6 months. Then about half a year ago the brainfog just reappeared, all-though in a milder form, even-though I had still eliminated everything I thought that was causing it. Back to square one

As of now, my list of symptoms still consists of:

- Severe brainfogs, like my brain is running at only 10% of normal capacity, resulting in a complete lack of motivation to do _anything_
- Extremely low energy levels
- Congested nose
- Pressure behind my eyes (although this was probably, at least partially, caused by the TMJ and is a lot less now)
- Neck, shoulder and back pains, specifically a very nagging pain between my shoulder blades
- A feeling of complete lack of power in my (under)arms.
- Very high intolerance to noise (I'm not sure this is POIS related, I've always had this but POIS might have made this a lot worse)
- Straw-like hair (I only have had long hair for 4 years so I don't have a real point of comparison for this)
- Dry skin (also something I've always really)
- After reading the forum it seems having to urinate frequently could be a symptom of POIS. I drink quite a lot during the day, and always thought I had a small blather but I need to pee A LOT, sometimes multiple times in half an hour, so I guess I can put that one on the list.

Potential causes that had been ruled out so far:

- conventional allergies
- brain tumor
- sinus issues
- TMJ (at least as the single source of the problem)
- environmental causes since brainfogs show up anywhere and anytime, including on vacations with my GF (but I haven't gone on vacations without her since we've been together)
- dietary causes, my diet has been consistent over all the years
- stress levels
- physical issues (how I'm sitting at my desk/in my sofa, for a while I suspected certain sex positions had a bad influence but eventually couldn't find an consistent link there either)


Now, 3 years is a long time, I've moved houses during this period, had periods with a lot of stress and periods with no stress, ... none of that appeared to have an effect on wether I did or did not have brainfogs. so last week it downed on me during these past years there was only one common factor during the good and the bad periods and that was my girlfriend (we have been together for 3 yeas and a half, my problems started about half a year after getting together).

Now, I'm not blaming her here but since I had ruled out so many things already, I started wondering if it could be anything related to her. So last week I started searching if I could find information on people suffering these brainfogs that had found a link to their partner in any way and that's how I ended up on Reddit again, on a thread mentioning POIS (https://www.reddit.com/r/BrainFog/comments/p29rsb/my_brain_fog_was_linked_to_post_orgasm_illness/). I went to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome and OMFG ... that list of "The 7 clusters of symptoms", 75% applies to me and overal, it perfectly describes my problems.

Looking back now, with POIS in mind, it "all" makes sense. Pretty much 95% of the sex we have is late a night, right before we go to sleep and being someone who always falls asleep like a log, I'm just never awake long enough to experience the symptoms before faling asleep, but I usually wake up like I was hit with a sledgehammer during my sleep, completely void of all energy and with a brain that doesn't seem to be able to wake up. Also, looking back, I remember telling my GF I had noticed sex in the morning seemed to have a bad effect on me somehow and kill my work spirit ... yet somehow I never thought much more of it.

Ok, so far my history, ... now it's time to pinpoint the exact cause. I'm 99% convinced it's POIS now BUT what I'm struggling with, in the info I can find here is that my brainfog hasn't been a consistent problem. I've had extremely bad periods and I've had periods I was perfectly fine, during those periods, my sex life (including masturbation habits) did not change at all. Like I said, sex 2-3 times a week and the days I don't have sex, I usually masturbate once a day.

Finding something like POIS exists, and also that I didn't find this a lot sooner, is a bit mind-blowing but at least I have something to start from in figuring this all out again.

So, while I'm going through the forum, I have one big question I hope people can answer or point me to info about it:

- I'm not entirely sure yet but I have a very strong suspicions my symptoms only appear, all-though delayed sometimes, after actual sex with my GF and not after masturbation, is that at all possible? And if so, it would have to be some specific "chemical" reaction to something to to with my girlfriend since there have been periods everything was fine while the sex didn't change, so it would have to be some change in her "chemistry" triggering it.


Important sidenote ... I also started using Modafinil (nootropic - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil) to help me with work, before my problems started. On the one hand Modafinil has helped A LOT in getting through periods with heavy brainfog but on the other hand I can't rule anything out yet, including this as a (partial) cause to it either. I've had weeks where I didn't use it and it didn't appear to have any effect on having brainfogs at all but I'm sure I don't have to explain anyone here, as our symptoms can last for 1-2 weeks it's really hard putting cause/effect together.
Overall, I would say my symptoms on average last for about 4-5 days.

[Progecitor]

Hi Foggled and welcome to the forum!

This distinction between masturbation and actual sex is indeed interesting. I guess you use some means of contraception. So do you use a condom or leave it to your GF to use contraceptive medications? In case of the first you could try to masturbate with a condom to see if it makes any difference. Of course I don’t believe that POIS is simply due to a latex allergy, but it may potentiate an underlying inflammatory condition that could be not seen otherwise. I wouldn’t discount a possible effect of the contraceptives either even if it is your GF who actually uses them as hormones can play a significant role in POIS. I think most people reported about actually having less symptoms when doing sex with a partner contrary to masturbation. Some of them also had success with testosterone boosters. Others think this phenomenon is due to the different way of stimulation or that it is simply a psychological matter. Maybe it is only my impression, but you are quite sexually active for someone in their 40s. I guess you never have any nocturnal emissions to see if it causes any symptoms. Nevertheless it may be a good idea to provide some nutritional support for your sexual health as it may be not able to recover so easily as it used to in your 20s and this could put some strain on the body that could manifest in increased general inflammation.

[Foggled]

Hi Progecitor and thanks!

This distinction between masturbation and actual sex is indeed interesting. I guess you use some means of contraception. So do you use a condom or leave it to your GF to use contraceptive medications? In case of the first you could try to masturbate with a condom to see if it makes any difference. Of course I don’t believe that POIS is simply due to a latex allergy, but it may potentiate an underlying inflammatory condition that could be not seen otherwise.

My Girlfriend had her tubes fixed just before we started seeing each other so we never used any contraceptives at all. I did use condoms with girlfriends before that and never had an issue.

I think most people reported about actually having less symptoms when doing sex with a partner contrary to masturbation. Some of them also had success with testosterone boosters. Others think this phenomenon is due to the different way of stimulation or that it is simply a psychological matter.

Well, it's only a suspicion that it only occurs from actual sex and this is the very first thing to figure out now. She's coincidently out of the country for the next 3 weeks so perfectly timed

Some of them also had success with testosterone boosters.

I've always had very low testosterone levels, so this is certainly something I could look into. I never had any problems like this prior to the last 3 years though.

Others think this phenomenon is due to the different way of stimulation or that it is simply a psychological matter

Ok, good to know, can't think of any way to test this though.

Maybe it is only my impression, but you are quite sexually active for someone in their 40s. I guess you never have any nocturnal emissions to see if it causes any symptoms. Nevertheless it may be a good idea to provide some nutritional support for your sexual health as it may be not able to recover so easily as it used to in your 20s and this could put some strain on the body that could manifest in increased general inflammation.

I'm not sure what's considered a "normal" sex-life at this age but I've been a late-bloomer and never had much sex before. You could say my sex-life only just started 5 years ago. As far as I can remember I think I've had maybe one nocturnal emissions in my early teens but I never let the pressure build up enough ever since I discovered masturbation really.

There's some more background here though. I had a circumcision in my early twenties, due to a medical issue (frenulum too short) and up until 5 years ago I had always masturbated without any lube or anything, which over the many years had resulted in a significant desensitization. So much so actually that I became unable to orgasm from regular sex but which I was unaware of for a long time because I wasn't actually having sex.

Now, In the 2 years prior to my current relationship, I had some other girlfriends and the desensitization "problem" became clear and even-though I had great sex, none of that sex ever resulted in an orgasm for me. I always had to finish it myself. Now, being unable to orgasm from sex wasn't ideal (some girls took it personal at first) but the upside was that was able to keep going for a significantly longer time then most men. Still, it was a problem so I started using lube consistently and after a while the sensitivity reached a point again where I could reach an orgasm during sex.
That point was however already 6 months into my current relationship though. So now I was having sex I was able to orgasm while the ability to keep going for a longer time actually remained ... so long story short. It's very common for sex to go from 15 minutes to half an hour or more and as this is literally the only form of exercise in my life, it's certainly not out of the question the strain is a factor.

Actually, WTF, thinking about it now ... the time when I managed to consistently reach an orgasm from having sex, might actually be the same time my issues started ...

But again, what makes this all so hard to figure out is the fact there have been periods these issues completely disappear, even up to 6 whole months, while none of the other situational factors changed (as far as I can figure out anyway) but there must be something that tips the balance for the worse.

The first year and this year, the problem arose when the weather became warmer and pollen season started, which made me look in that direction, even-though a pollen allergy was ruled out already. It was just too big of a coincidence IMO but then the second year there was no clear line in season/timing and I had major issues during that winter also.

... nutritional support for your sexual health as it may be not able to recover so easily as it used to in your 20s and this could put some strain on the body that could manifest in increased general inflammation.

Would "increased general inflammation" mean it's not POIS?

[Progecitor]

Hi Progecitor and thanks!

This distinction between masturbation and actual sex is indeed interesting. I guess you use some means of contraception. So do you use a condom or leave it to your GF to use contraceptive medications? In case of the first you could try to masturbate with a condom to see if it makes any difference. Of course I don’t believe that POIS is simply due to a latex allergy, but it may potentiate an underlying inflammatory condition that could be not seen otherwise.

My Girlfriend had her tubes fixed just before we started seeing each other so we never used any contraceptives at all. I did use condoms with girlfriends before that and never had an issue.

I think most people reported about actually having less symptoms when doing sex with a partner contrary to masturbation. Some of them also had success with testosterone boosters. Others think this phenomenon is due to the different way of stimulation or that it is simply a psychological matter.

Well, it's only a suspicion that it only occurs from actual sex and this is the very first thing to figure out now. She's coincidently out of the country for the next 3 weeks so perfectly timed

Some of them also had success with testosterone boosters.

I've always had very low testosterone levels, so this is certainly something I could look into. I never had any problems like this prior to the last 3 years though.

Others think this phenomenon is due to the different way of stimulation or that it is simply a psychological matter

Ok, good to know, can't think of any way to test this though.

Maybe it is only my impression, but you are quite sexually active for someone in their 40s. I guess you never have any nocturnal emissions to see if it causes any symptoms. Nevertheless it may be a good idea to provide some nutritional support for your sexual health as it may be not able to recover so easily as it used to in your 20s and this could put some strain on the body that could manifest in increased general inflammation.

I'm not sure what's considered a "normal" sex-life at this age but I've been a late-bloomer and never had much sex before. You could say my sex-life only just started 5 years ago. As far as I can remember I think I've had maybe one nocturnal emissions in my early teens but I never let the pressure build up enough ever since I discovered masturbation really.

There's some more background here though. I had a circumcision in my early twenties, due to a medical issue (frenulum too short) and up until 5 years ago I had always masturbated without any lube or anything, which over the many years had resulted in a significant desensitization. So much so actually that I became unable to orgasm from regular sex but which I was unaware of for a long time because I wasn't actually having sex.

Now, In the 2 years prior to my current relationship, I had some other girlfriends and the desensitization "problem" became clear and even-though I had great sex, none of that sex ever resulted in an orgasm for me. I always had to finish it myself. Now, being unable to orgasm from sex wasn't ideal (some girls took it personal at first) but the upside was that was able to keep going for a significantly longer time then most men. Still, it was a problem so I started using lube consistently and after a while the sensitivity reached a point again where I could reach an orgasm during sex.
That point was however already 6 months into my current relationship though. So now I was having sex I was able to orgasm while the ability to keep going for a longer time actually remained ... so long story short. It's very common for sex to go from 15 minutes to half an hour or more and as this is literally the only form of exercise in my life, it's certainly not out of the question the strain is a factor.

Actually, WTF, thinking about it now ... the time when I managed to consistently reach an orgasm from having sex, might actually be the same time my issues started ...

But again, what makes this all so hard to figure out is the fact there have been periods these issues completely disappear, even up to 6 whole months, while none of the other situational factors changed (as far as I can figure out anyway) but there must be something that tips the balance for the worse.

The first year and this year, the problem arose when the weather became warmer and pollen season started, which made me look in that direction, even-though a pollen allergy was ruled out already. It was just too big of a coincidence IMO but then the second year there was no clear line in season/timing and I had major issues during that winter also.

... nutritional support for your sexual health as it may be not able to recover so easily as it used to in your 20s and this could put some strain on the body that could manifest in increased general inflammation.

Would "increased general inflammation" mean it's not POIS?

Thank you for the detailed response! It certainly gives a better grasp of your story. At least now it is clear that it is not related to condoms or contraceptives. Well this matter is certainly an elusive issue and remains to be solved. As a possibility you could track your partner’s menstrual cycle and see if it makes any difference for you as it could imply some hormonal involvement. I also heard that depending on the diet a woman’s vagina could taste differently, which also indicates a change in chemistry. Of course how that would affect you by simple penetration is a big mystery.

As a matter of fact I also benefit from testosterone boosters, even though my testosterone level is above average based on a test. I think tribulus, maca or fenugreek could be good conventional supplements to start with, though their efficacy may show great variability depending on the person and also on product quality. Actually increasing testosterone should increase your sexual performance and endurance, so I am not sure if it will only do you good given your insensitivity.
At least testosterone is regarded as a possible treatment for delayed ejaculation and this may worth consideration.
https://synapse.koreamed.org/articles/1088855
Check Table 4.

Personally I don’t think the way of stimulation makes any difference, but I also don’t have a real comparative experience as I have never been with a woman. This is one thread I could find on the issue, but there could be more info with thorough search of the site:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3342.msg38134#msg38134

I haven’t tried Modafinil personally, but I found several dopamine agonists to have a positive effect on my depression. As a matter of fact D,L-Phenylalanine was quite nice recently, however they don’t seem to help much with the POIS related inflammation. Serotonergic agents (SSRIs and tryptophan) were similarly anti-depressive and yet in a way they even seemed to increase inflammation. Depression is certainly one of the worst symptoms of POIS, but treating it may not necessarily resolve POIS in its entirety. At least it is good to keep in mind that dopaminergic (DA) agonists improve male sexual function, while serotonergic transmission can inhibit it.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4281.msg46746#msg46746

In my case POIS is a never ending, but dynamically shifting state. It may be only me, but I think POIS is an inflammation that is always there, which gets significantly worse when potentiated. Clearly sexual activity is the worst inducer, but dietary elements and other factors can also give a great boost to this inflammation. If the general inflammation in the body raises due to metabolic strain clearly greater spikes can be expected when sexually induced POIS strikes. Supporting normal metabolic processes with proper nutrition may help lessen these spikes thus making POIS less apparent and debilitating.
I don’t wish to go into lengthy discussion about nutrients as there is abundant information on the site about things like zinc and B vitamins, etc. Testosterone is also needed for proper sexual function and as you say you could be low on it. While you may not see a difference in sexual performance its lack could still put some strain on your body that should result in greater spikes and more apparent POIS symptoms like brain fog.

Well I wish you good luck on your endeavour for a quality treatment that hopefully will also satisfy your partner!

[Foggled]

Thank you for the detailed response! It certainly gives a better grasp of your story. At least now it is clear that it is not related to condoms or contraceptives. Well this matter is certainly an elusive issue and remains to be solved. As a possibility you could track your partner’s menstrual cycle and see if it makes any difference for you as it could imply some hormonal involvement. I also heard that depending on the diet a woman’s vagina could taste differently, which also indicates a change in chemistry. Of course how that would affect you by simple penetration is a big mystery.

After your first response I also thought about potential hormonal differences due to my GF's menstrual cycle. We don't have sex during her period but there's obviously more to the cycle than the one week.

As a matter of fact I also benefit from testosterone boosters, even though my testosterone level is above average based on a test. I think tribulus, maca or fenugreek could be good conventional supplements to start with, though their efficacy may show great variability depending on the person and also on product quality. Actually increasing testosterone should increase your sexual performance and endurance, so I am not sure if it will only do you good given your insensitivity.
At least testosterone is regarded as a possible treatment for delayed ejaculation and this may worth consideration.
https://synapse.koreamed.org/articles/1088855
Check Table 4.

I think you misread my previous response here. My sexual performance and endurance are high. Like I said, the sensitivity was mostly regained while maintaining the endurance aspect of it.

Personally I don’t think the way of stimulation makes any difference, but I also don’t have a real comparative experience as I have never been with a woman. This is one thread I could find on the issue, but there could be more info with thorough search of the site:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3342.msg38134#msg38134

It would astonish me if the type of stimulation made a difference here but seeing as I only discovered something like POIS exists just 48 hours ago, I'm probably in no position to rule things out yet based on "my feeling" I'll definitely have a look there.

I haven’t tried Modafinil personally, but I found several dopamine agonists to have a positive effect on my depression. As a matter of fact D,L-Phenylalanine was quite nice recently, however they don’t seem to help much with the POIS related inflammation. Serotonergic agents (SSRIs and tryptophan) were similarly anti-depressive and yet in a way they even seemed to increase inflammation. Depression is certainly one of the worst symptoms of POIS, but treating it may not necessarily resolve POIS in its entirety. At least it is good to keep in mind that dopaminergic (DA) agonists improve male sexual function, while serotonergic transmission can inhibit it.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4281.msg46746#msg46746

I wouldn't call myself depressed but last year when the brainfog and muscle pains remained non-stop for over a month I sure came close what depression must feel like. I guess I'm lucky I still have periods that are better so I don't fall into a full fledged depression.

Modafinil is great during good periods and an absolute must during bad periods. I can't even imagine how I would get through bad periods without it. I usually take one Modafinil over an entire (good) day but recently during bad periods I've had to kick up the dose quite drastically just to reach a minimal level of "normal" by taking multiple over the course of a few hours, often even combined with energy drinks just to get to a bearable point.

In my case POIS is a never ending, but dynamically shifting state. It may be only me, but I think POIS is an inflammation that is always there, which gets significantly worse when potentiated. Clearly sexual activity is the worst inducer, but dietary elements and other factors can also give a great boost to this inflammation. If the general inflammation in the body raises due to metabolic strain clearly greater spikes can be expected when sexually induced POIS strikes. Supporting normal metabolic processes with proper nutrition may help lessen these spikes thus making POIS less apparent and debilitating.

I don’t wish to go into lengthy discussion about nutrients as there is abundant information on the site about things like zinc and B vitamins, etc. Testosterone is also needed for proper sexual function and as you say you could be low on it. While you may not see a difference in sexual performance its lack could still put some strain on your body that should result in greater spikes and more apparent POIS symptoms like brain fog.

Well I wish you good luck on your endeavour for a quality treatment that hopefully will also satisfy your partner!

A lot of the things I've read so far refer to vitamine B and D supplements so I'll definitely starts with those already. I still have to checkout testosterone boosters but as said above, I really don't need to boost my sexual performance or endurance and my GF is more than satisfied sexually, but she definitely would be happy when I get my brainfog issues fixed as these have a heavy impact on my general motivation to do anything (meaning non-sexual couple activities). I will add that because of the sensitivity issue, even-though it is much better now, I do need "full control" of the rhythm and movement to reach an orgasm this way which essentially means, I'm ALWAYS on top and because of my endurance, this certainly takes a heavy toll on my body. Sometimes too much, which I only fully realise after the heat of the moment.

[Foggled]

It's crazy really, on the one hand I'm really happy to finally having found something that looks to be the real cause but after 3 years (which is just a fraction of the time some of you have dealt with this it seems, I can't even start to imagine what this does to a person who had to endure this their  entire life) it's really taken a toll and I dread making mistakes in the process which could wipe me out again for weeks ... but I guess there's no way around that one.

I did some more searching and I could only find one single specialist in my entire country which mentions POIS in their specialties. I mailed her for an appointment and we'll see what that brings.

[Foggled]

I'm fairly certain Muon had replied here with a link to https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3312.0 Thanks, but it's removed now?

It took me a while to get through that whole thread but the results there look very interesting. I'll wait to see if I can get an appointment with the specialist I mentioned above and if she would prescribe it but if she doesn't I'll definitely get it some other way.

The theory that the medication causes harder ejaculations is very interesting, resulting in some sort of "clearing" could support my (to be confirmed) claim that I only have POIS from actual sex and not (or way less) from masturbation because my orgasms/ejaculations from masturbation are, how can I say this ... "cleaner" or "more complete" because of the much higher level of controle when masturbating vs those from sex.

[Foggled]

Thanks Demografx, I had seen the list but my country isn't on there. I haven't received a reply yet from the specialist but if I do and I get to see her, I'll pass on the info to be added to the list.

[Danmh]

Hi Foggled,

What you’re saying about your issues perhaps starting when you started being able to consistently reach orgasm during sex, and what you’re saying about needing to have control of rythm and movement in order to reach those orgasms, sounds very interesting! I have found that changing up the way I self-stimulate can sometimes eliminate the triggering of my symptoms, when I reach orgasm, but I haven’t been able to find a way to consistently eliminate the symptoms yet. If you have time and are interested, then perhaps you can read my story and hypothesis in another thread, where I also quote a few people, who seemingly has eliminated their issues through adopting specific techniques related to self-stimulating:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3531.0

I would love to hear your thoughts!

All the best,
D

[Foggled]

Thanks Demografx, I had seen the list but my country isn't on there. I haven't received a reply yet from the specialist but if I do and I get to see her, I'll pass on the info to be added to the list.

She replied but indicated her knowledge about POIS is probably too limited and as a clinical sex therapist, she also can't prescribe medication.
She did mention a specialist which is already on the list though (neighbouring country), so I guess contacting that one is my next step.

[Muon]

Thanks Demografx, I had seen the list but my country isn't on there. I haven't received a reply yet from the specialist but if I do and I get to see her, I'll pass on the info to be added to the list.

She replied but indicated her knowledge about POIS is probably too limited and as a clinical sex therapist, she also can't prescribe medication.
She did mention a specialist which is already on the list though (neighbouring country), so I guess contacting that one is my next step.

You could look for a specialist in sexual medicine, not sexual therapy, who may prescribe medication.

[Foggled]

Thanks Demografx, I had seen the list but my country isn't on there. I haven't received a reply yet from the specialist but if I do and I get to see her, I'll pass on the info to be added to the list.

She replied but indicated her knowledge about POIS is probably too limited and as a clinical sex therapist, she also can't prescribe medication.
She did mention a specialist which is already on the list though (neighbouring country), so I guess contacting that one is my next step.

You could look for a specialist in sexual medicine, not sexual therapy, who may prescribe medication.

I'll need to do some digging on that as I recently moved and I can't even get to a regular doctor here right now because there's a doctor shortage and the few I tried so far all have a patient-stop in place. The specialist she mentioned is at least a 3-hour drive away and I'm not convinced it will add much at this stage as I still have some more research to do myself, mainly if I can find a clear difference in issues from masturbation vs sex, otherwise it's just a waste of time for everybody involved.

I could go see my old doctor but its been a while and I would probably need to convince them first before he would prescribe something.

[Foggled]

Now that I have a good indication that my issues are somehow related to something around my sex-life/ejaculation, I'm going through my memory, looking for things that stand out when looked at from this new found angle.

One of those things is that it varies quite a lot when I go to sleep after sex.

My GF needs more sleep than me, 9 hours, while I can easily have nights of 6 hours or less.
We live apart but depending on who has their kids for the week, she comes over to my place for 3-4 nights or the other way around, ...

Now, when she stays at my place, it happens quite often that we'll have sex before she goes to sleep, after which I always get up again for a few more hours. When I'm at her place however, she goes to bed an hour later then usual but then I'll go with her and not get up again.

This is where it might get interesting, during the six months I had no issues, we both had a lot of work and my snoring was interrupting her sleep more than before. So during that period, when I was at her place and we had sex, I would get up again and drive home quite a lot of times. This way I wasn't messing up her sleep with the snoring and I had a few more hours to work at home.

It's just what I can recall about the past 6 months and I have 0 hard data, but it could be an indication that getting back out of bed/staying up after sex/ejaculation, greatly reduces the severity of my POIS symptoms or even prevents them entirely.

Did anyone ever hear about other cases where something like this seemed to play a factor?

[Foggled]

I masturbated yesterday. I usually release at least once a day, very occasionally after 2 days, and the amount of times it's been 3 days is probably less than 10 over my entire life. I'm quite sure its never been longer then 3 days.

It's not that I can't hold back, but every additional day always feels like it adds a level of discomfort when ejaculating and I never had any reason to hold off on it so ...

I was still having some minor brain fog and muscles aches yesterday, from sex 6 days ago but they are close to gone now, I suspect/hope I will be out of it tomorrow. Masturbating did not make anything worse again, so the first test of my hypothesis that ejaculation from masturbating does not trigger my brain fog seems to confirm this, unless it comes delayed but I highly doubt that will happen. We'll know soon enough I guess.
In relation to my previous comment, I stayed up another 2 hours after masturbating.

The plan is to wait 48 hours again now. As I said, I should be out of it entirely by then and see what effect masturbation has then.

[Progecitor]

So you mentioned using some lube during sex. Do you still use it on a regular basis? Do you also use it when you masturbate? It may be not excluded as a possible source of your symptoms. Maybe you could try a different product. Some members found lubricants to be detrimental:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1406.msg43399#msg43399

Even so other members found lube to be protective for their local symptoms.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=993.0

Using different lubes may also alter the whole sexual experience.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3549.msg37206#msg37206

Using a natural lubricant like coconut oil may also result in a different experience.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4218.msg45323#msg45323
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2984.msg39450#msg39450

Of course lubricants are just one possible source of external chemicals. For example other members developed POIS-like symptoms by using deodorants.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4012.0

[Foggled]

So you mentioned using some lube during sex. Do you still use it on a regular basis? Do you also use it when you masturbate? It may be not excluded as a possible source of your symptoms. Maybe you could try a different product. Some members found lubricants to be detrimental:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1406.msg43399#msg43399

Even so other members found lube to be protective for their local symptoms.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=993.0

Using different lubes may also alter the whole sexual experience.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3549.msg37206#msg37206

Using a natural lubricant like coconut oil may also result in a different experience.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4218.msg45323#msg45323
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2984.msg39450#msg39450

Of course lubricants are just one possible source of external chemicals. For example other members developed POIS-like symptoms by using deodorants.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4012.0

Thanks a lot Progecitor, I/we always use lube and we're not especially frugal with it eiher. It became a habit and just makes it always a smoother experience, even when it wouldn't be strictly necessary. It has also always been the same kind (Durex Play Massage 2in1 with Aloe).

I've thought a lot about external (chemical) factors like:

- shower gel
- laundry detergents
- vacuuming
- GF's deo (I never use any)
- GF hair dye
- parfume
- ...

and I haven't been able to find any connections there.

[Foggled]

I'm pretty bummed out, contrary to my expectations, I'm still having issues today. The brain fog didn't get worse the last few days but it's still there. Muscle aches in neck and shoulders however did get worse again yesterday.

I'll have to bite the bullet and stop masturbation completely for a longer period and evaluate what that brings.

[Quantum]

I'm pretty bummed out, contrary to my expectations, I'm still having issues today. The brain fog didn't get worse the last few days but it's still there. Muscle aches in neck and shoulders however did get worse again yesterday.

I'll have to bite the bullet and stop masturbation completely for a longer period and evaluate what that brings.

Did you take a look at the list of proven methods found by members?  No method works for every members, because it seems that there are many sub-types of POIS, but maybe you can find something useful for you there:  https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448

[demografx]

Did you take a look at the list of proven [POIS treatment] methods found by members?  No method works for every members, because it seems that there are many sub-types of POIS, but maybe you can find something useful for you there:  https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448

A brilliant compilation, Quantum!

[Foggled]

I'm pretty bummed out, contrary to my expectations, I'm still having issues today. The brain fog didn't get worse the last few days but it's still there. Muscle aches in neck and shoulders however did get worse again yesterday.

I'll have to bite the bullet and stop masturbation completely for a longer period and evaluate what that brings.

Did you take a look at the list of proven methods found by members?  No method works for every members, because it seems that there are many sub-types of POIS, but maybe you can find something useful for you there:  https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448

Hi Quantum, even-though I'm absolutely convinced POIS is the root of my problems, I'm looking for indisputable confirmation, which will take some more testing.
I did however already start with some supplements based on that list (vitamine D, B, Magnesium) and I'm also adding more eggs to my diet.
It's a fantastic list but quite extensive, which is good but also means there are like another 100 other things to try and a lot of them are medication, which I know absolutely nothing about and currently can't easily get ahold of.

In looking for professional help, I contacted my osteopath, where I went a few times last year (before I moved), and she's quite motivated in trying to help and to approach my issues from the POIS angle. She also works in a practice with sex therapists which could be called in on the issue if needed. It will be another month before I can go see her but in the meantime I can hopefully get that confirmation I want.