Author Topic: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?  (Read 393 times)

danielmh

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Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« on: October 11, 2020, 11:38:50 AM »
Hello everybody

I would first like to tell a bit of my story and then ask a question of you guys :)

I have been dealing with POIS for almost ten years, symptoms being mainly extreme fatigue, difficulty concentrating, difficulty speaking, writing incoherently, impaired thinking in generel, dry/red eyes, dark lines under eyes and loads of dandruff. Symptoms last for about 7 days after O and it slowly starts improving after Day 2-ish. I am currently on Day 1 of a POIS-symptom-cycle, so I apologize for any incoherence in this post.

My POIS started in January 2011, and I only discovered that it might have something to do with masturbation/orgasm as of September/October of 2019. The way I discovered the connection was through thinking that masturbating with too much tension might cause me to be more irritable, because I wasn't perhaps getting sexually satisfied (tensing legs etc. too much, resulting in orgasm very quickly). The result really surprised me, being that I after a few days was suddenly able to think much more clearly, my eyes stopped being dry/reddish, and I was able to articulate myself in ways that I hadn't consistently been able to since before 2011. This resulted in me later finding this forum and the overall diagnosis of POIS through googling something like "masturbation red eyes".

My problem currently is that focusing on not tensing up during masturbation/orgasm only works most of the time - which means that I still haven't figured the cause of it out - other than that it seemingly is at least indirectly related to tensing up. Reading and searching for keywords on this forum and other places has resulted in me finding other accounts of something similar working. On a youtube video entitled "Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome" (by username person2207) a user named Jackxu123 posted a comment in 2015 that reads:


"I used to have fatigue, dry eyes, red eyes, low energy, sore throat, and feel anti-social after orgasm for 3-5 days. After reading and trying different things. I have now figured it out for myself. I paid attention to the release of cortisol in my body. Now after I orgasm I feel happy and good. And I actually have more energy the next day! This is what I did:

1. During sex, I paid attention to deep breathing, and I tried to feel my sexual energy. Where as before I am too preoccupied with the thoughts in my head, but now I try to yield to my sexual energy and stop thinking about trying to orgasm. (also i found it hard to watch hardcore/intense porn during this because it gets me to caught up with my thoughts, instead passionate/intense love type of porn works better to guide me to feel my sexual energy).
2. MINIMIZE CORTISOL RELEASE DURING ORGASM by avoiding valsalva and doing deep breathing and pay attention to the building and releasing of my sexual energy
3. Have a glass of water
4. (This is optional, I used to do this AFTER ORGASM but now I have managed my cortisol release during sex & orgasm, so I don't need to anymore) Post orgasm, try to minimize cortisol release by doing 2-3 minutes of deep breathing and paying attention to relaxing the body, followed by 5-10 minutes of yoga & deep breathing for further relaxation.
5. shower and feel happy This worked for me. Hopefully it may for someone else as well!

(Side note, I am a 4th year medical student, and I have not learned much about the allergic reaction to one's own sperm but it may be a cause for some, but more likely not unless your testicles are inflammed/swollen and in pain all the time. Cortisol release during sex ESPECIALLY ORGASM is likely the mailn culprit and reducing this stress response through breathing and self-relaxation during orgasm is key.)"
(my emboldenment)


I really don't know about the cortisol connection, but what I note is that is that relaxing, focusing on deep breathing and avoiding valsalva-like movement apparently fixed the issue for him.

A user name PotatoEd posted something similiar in a long post (his only on this forum) that includes this:


"I've known for years my breathing isn't the perfect deep-abdomen breathing and I became even more aware when I became extremely self-conscious when all of my body seemed to shut down. However, because of all the information I had come across, the focus wasn't there, until this theory started to take shape. I've tried a big O twice last saturday with the deep abdomen breathing in mind, and trying to find and keep that way of breathing where I didn't feel any pressure in my head and actually felt relaxed. The O's were definitely less intense, but a very satisfied feeling stayed for at least an hour afterwards, almost to be described as tripping out lol. Afterwards I wouldn't say I was fatigued, a bit tired, but I'd say that's perfectly normal (finally!!). I didn't have any plans for that night, but I felt like I could have gone to a party that same night without already feeling a hangover. The next day I went for a run, which went pretty good actually. In full POIS-mode I wouldn't even have gathered the motivation to put on my running shoes, or would have been exhausted/overheated after a mile or two, but besides my legs feeling a bit weak (low T perhaps), I was actually doing alright! First time in ages I felt alright after." (my emboldenment)


He never made another post so I hope that he was able to maintain his "cure" - and again it seems like breathing and relaxing is the key to O'ing without triggering POIS.

We also have Carmack97 on this forum who claims to have eliminated his POIS through therapy with a sexologist:



"So, she told me to try to masturbate like this:
Put yourself in a comfortable position. Try to relax, you can meditate before (works well). Control your breath; take deep breath, relaxed, don?t hold your breath at any moment, even during orgasm. Your breathing must stay calm
Have you muscle relaxed during all the session: don?t flex your legs for example. This is classic! I heard so many people doing that, and I was also doing it. Keep all your muscle relaxed. This will make the sensation flow in all your body. Don?t flex also during orgasm.
Masturbate slowly and gently. Like if you were making the most passionate love of your life. At the same time, erotize vaginal penetration (or the other ones) you can erotize the penetration going at the same speed as your masturbate, that?s better, and again, slowly. There really is no need to go quickly or aggressively. Have a soft grip, don?t squeeze you dick.
You can also move your hip as if you were making love. Your hand doesn?t move; your penis moves in your hand. Try to move only the hips, not the body. As far as I understand, doing this create a deeper connection with your body. And it?s closer to real sex anyway
You can also use oil to make it more real. It makes it more intense. I didn?t understand why she told me this, but I do it for time to times and I guess it help having more fun and sensation. I don?t really do it anymore but maybe it can help some people using oil regularly.

So, try to do all those things. Focus on the sensation masturbation gives you in every part of your body, focus on them. At some point you?ll feel orgasm coming up, at that point don?t start to flex, don?t change your breath, don?t start to masturbate quicker, just let it come.
Of course, don?t use ANY artificial stimuli (porn, erotica, Instagram, etc.) use your mind only! Thinking about romantic sex was useful for me, because bit by bit i went away from porn fantasies.
To be honest I never really masturbated like that before. it was really new, and really really benefic. Of course, everything didn?t change at first, but now I try to masturbate like this every time, and this is for me the most important action which helped me."
(my emboldenment)


Breathing and not tensing up is seemingly also a central part of Carmack's solution.

My question to you all is: do you have any positive/negativ experiences and/or insights in regards to masturbating in a different way, focusing on breathing and not tensing up? As I mentioned earlier in this post I can usually make it 'work', i.e. avoiding POIS-triggering, through focusing on breathing and not tensing up too much during orgasm, but it is not 100 percent consistent.

A sidenote: a few weeks ago I tried to isolate the cause by holding my breath and tensing up as much as I could during masturbation, but avoiding reaching climax/acheiving orgasm. POIS did not get triggered (though sexual frustration certainly did :) ). This would imply that orgasm is indeed necessary (in my case at least) for triggering of POIS, but, as is reflected by my story, orgasm is not a sufficient condition in and of it self - somekind of tensing up/holding breath-behavior is also necessary.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts! Good day :)

Daniel


demografx

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2020, 12:28:01 PM »
Daniel, welcome to the forum!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2020, 01:31:35 PM »
I was also relaxed, could be a factor (I think it was a combination of factors together that did it):

Strange I had an orgasm with almost zero POIS symptoms. A small area close to the center of the brain stabilized within a few minutes (rough estimate, could be a bit longer) after orgasm. I thought there was no problem in that area at that specific moment until the quick transition to a more 'normal' like state happened, the 'normal' state feels less active, much calmer. My libido also made a big change during the last 1.5 months from high to low and POIS symptoms have slightly improved, probably due to prolonged cold weather conditions.

Edit: forgot to mention that my body as a whole was relaxed, other symptoms were barely present and it was past midnight.

Journey

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2020, 02:09:52 AM »
It might be as I realize I've been "less focused on arousal" and more mechanically focused e.g. not focusing on desire/arousal/feelings/sensations but more on mechnically doing it I feel as more this connection dropped the worse my POIS became I recall when younger having stronger mind connection to my libido-being able to mentally relax into the pleasure and "feel" it if it makes sense.
INTP, 19 y.o. aware of POIS since 2019 when realized by abstaining that O/WD gives POIS, likely had it since puberty, fatigue, brainfog, clumsier, slower thinking/processing, voice volume goes down, sometimes harder to look in eyes, lower stamina/strength

danielmh

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2020, 12:08:03 PM »
Thank you Demografx!

Muon, have you been able to recreate it since? Or does full-blown POIS usually always happen after O?

Journey, so being more mechanically-minded lessens your POIS? I haven't ever really been able to identify a less bad version of POIS. Either it happens with all the symptoms, or it doesn't kick in at all.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 12:12:27 PM by danielmh »

BluesBrother

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 12:45:58 PM »
I have experienced a few orgasms/ejaculations that did not result in POIS symptoms. The level of relaxation before and after seems to somehow correlate with the absence of symptoms. Here are some examples where that has happened to me:

- Sex after an evening together at the spa and afterward spending the night together, sleeping well and comfortably (which is an absolute exception for me - usually I cannot sleep after having been to the spa, irrespective of sex)
- Sex where I did not even notice my ejaculation
- Nocturnal emissions which I did not notice coming (usually I wake up slightly before and then can stop them by squeezing my kegel muscles)

I don't think I have ever experienced such a case with masturbation. Masturbation after having been at the spa still induces symptoms, even though I am then usually more relaxed. I have also not experienced any such case with sex where I did not spend the night together with my partner afterwards. For some time, I thought that being comfortably together after sex might release hormones which prevent POIS. Maybe there is something to that after all.
Used to have brain fog, flue-like symptoms, un-refreshing sleep, extreme exhaustion, muscle and joint pain, digestive problems, social anxiety, urge to urinate frequently.
Used niacin in the past. Now using nanna1's maintenance stack. Exhaustion and brain fog now main problem. 3-day POIS cycle

Muon

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 01:09:07 PM »
Muon, have you been able to recreate it since? Or does full-blown POIS usually always happen after O?

Haven't been able to recreat it since (the body needs to be in a certain state is my guess). I think the other triggers are a type of stress as well preventing the reaction from stabilizing (this can clearly be felt near the center of the brain at a small focal area) as tiny as these triggers are. The POIS isn't always full-blown anymore (as in 100% intensity everytime), it used to be. There is some difference in the POIS events nowadays, I suspect long term trigger avoidance, diet and age/time potentially play a role in the latter (desenz helped to some extent).

Also lately when i feel inflamed friction applied to the glans penis seem to amplify signals to my lower spine. Because the slightest friction (limp penis, nothing sexual related) let my lower back flare up, painless though but just activation, no idea what is it and if it got anything to do with the piece of text I wrote above. Sorry for the rambling.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 01:11:34 PM by Muon »

Journey

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2020, 02:12:20 PM »
Thank you Demografx!

Muon, have you been able to recreate it since? Or does full-blown POIS usually always happen after O?

Journey, so being more mechanically-minded lessens your POIS? I haven't ever really been able to identify a less bad version of POIS. Either it happens with all the symptoms, or it doesn't kick in at all.
I thought maybe being out of touch with body and more carried away might make POIS worse as it was said in that YouTube comment how 1 lessened it by breathing deeper but I haven't been able to make any difference by changing breathing or any other physical parameter. Only time I had absence of POIS was 2020 February when I had neck cold due to having had not enough clothes covering it while outside in cold weather so had neck pain/mucus/compulsive cough.
INTP, 19 y.o. aware of POIS since 2019 when realized by abstaining that O/WD gives POIS, likely had it since puberty, fatigue, brainfog, clumsier, slower thinking/processing, voice volume goes down, sometimes harder to look in eyes, lower stamina/strength

danielmh

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2020, 02:30:06 PM »
BluesBrother, that is interesting. Do you usually get POIS when you have sex? And in those cases where you did not notice your ejaculation - did you just keep on going or how did you find out that you had finished? In light of my original post I am looking for any kind of specific behaviour that might be associated with instances of O happening without POIS kicking in.

Muon, thanks for the answer. I wonder if our cases of POIS have different causes, or if I (unknowingly except for the association with ?relaxing?) am doing something that results in my POIS only kicking in 1 out of 5 times or thereabout. I will keep on investigating!

Journey, okay, so during that period in February this year you could acheive O without triggering POIS?

And for posterity, this past week I thought my POIS might be due to specifically having too hard of a hand grip during masturbation (the death grip is a known phenomenon), but consciously having a loose grip did not work consistently either. Now I am considering whether it might be about continuing stimulation for too long after climax. Any comments are welcome as always! :)

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 02:50:20 PM by danielmh »

BluesBrother

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2020, 02:46:20 PM »
BluesBrother, that is interesting. Do you usually get POIS when you have sex? And in those cases where you did not notice your ejaculation - did you just keep on going or how did you find out that you had finished?

Regarding your first question: I have not had a lot of sex in my life. There has been a period where I would meet up with a woman once a week, we would have sex but would not spend the night. I have experienced POIS in all these cases.
In the few cases where I have spent the night, in some I have not experienced POIS. On one occasion, we had sex at night, I spent the night and felt good in the morning without POIS which is unusual. We then had sex again and I left. Later during the day POIS symptoms started. This incident is one of the reasons which made me wonder whether being together and feeling comfortable might actually release hormones which prevent POIS.

About your second question: In those cases I kept going but noticed very quickly after ejaculation (a second or so), but did not feel the ejaculation coming on, as I usually do.
Used to have brain fog, flue-like symptoms, un-refreshing sleep, extreme exhaustion, muscle and joint pain, digestive problems, social anxiety, urge to urinate frequently.
Used niacin in the past. Now using nanna1's maintenance stack. Exhaustion and brain fog now main problem. 3-day POIS cycle

Journey

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2020, 03:23:27 PM »
BluesBrother, that is interesting. Do you usually get POIS when you have sex? And in those cases where you did not notice your ejaculation - did you just keep on going or how did you find out that you had finished? In light of my original post I am looking for any kind of specific behaviour that might be associated with instances of O happening without POIS kicking in.

Muon, thanks for the answer. I wonder if our cases of POIS have different causes, or if I (unknowingly except for the association with ?relaxing?) am doing something that results in my POIS only kicking in 1 out of 5 times or thereabout. I will keep on investigating!

Journey, okay, so during that period in February this year you could acheive O without triggering POIS?

And for posterity, this past week I thought my POIS might be due to specifically having too hard of a hand grip during masturbation (the death grip is a known phenomenon), but consciously having a loose grip did not work consistently either. Now I am considering whether it might be about continuing stimulation for too long after climax. Any comments are welcome as always! :)
Yes during the 3 day period I had 1 nightfall 2 orgasms with 0 pois felt as sharp cognitively as before I recall feeling more sensitivity in inner middle area of tube not that I got lack of sensitivity but it was increased which only felt that way during this period I feel as body bloodflow/temperature also was different than usually ofcourse it changes when 1 has cold but by some mechanism while I was ill POIS deactivated.
INTP, 19 y.o. aware of POIS since 2019 when realized by abstaining that O/WD gives POIS, likely had it since puberty, fatigue, brainfog, clumsier, slower thinking/processing, voice volume goes down, sometimes harder to look in eyes, lower stamina/strength

Nas

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 03:55:06 PM »
Hmmmm, this thread needs more investigation, what hormones that are released post-orgasm that can be the reason why some people don't have orgasm during intimacy after sex?
Having no POIS consistently after achieving intimacy with partner post-orgasm should be massive clue to the origins of POIS.

Muon

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2020, 04:02:14 PM »
Hmmmm, this thread needs more investigation, what hormones that are released post-orgasm that can be the reason why some people don't have orgasm during intimacy after sex?
Having no POIS consistently after achieving intimacy with partner post-orgasm should be massive clue to the origins of POIS.

Two hormones that I know of are oxytocin and prolactin. Also some other hormones could be absorbed during sex from females, there are indications for transfer of progesterone in one paper.

Nas

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2020, 06:05:34 AM »

Two hormones that I know of are oxytocin and prolactin. Also some other hormones could be absorbed during sex from females, there are indications for transfer of progesterone in one paper.
Since I know it's not Prolactin, candidates are Oxytocin and Progesterone. If Oxytocin it is, then that would be problematic since there are no known pharmacological options for increasing Oxytocin.
On the other hand Progesterone deficiency can be a cause for people with low serotonin levels, and symptoms could be a result of estrogenic dominance. However I have already tested my estradiol levels and it seems to be normal. 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 06:11:17 AM by Nas »

demografx

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Re: Hypothesis: POIS caused by behaviour before/during/after O?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2020, 01:28:37 PM »


Warning: use with extreme caution/physician supervision only
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 03:52:17 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business