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Never
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Hormonal Causes and Treatments / Re: Medical ways to reduce cortisol?
« Last post by Journey on January 19, 2022, 04:55:08 PM »
Ashwagandha is the most effective for reducing cortisol I have found this far
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General POIS Discussions / Re: My POIS Symptoms
« Last post by Journey on January 19, 2022, 03:59:54 PM »
"in POIS my stool tends to become lighter and more yellowish in color". I get the exacly the same symptom and it stays this way many days after the POIS period. I didnt have this the first decades, it arrived during the last 5 years. I strongly belive this symptom it is related to the pancreas or/and the liver, which both lowers there capacity during POIS inflammation. A CT-scan showed that my pancreas were smaller then normal and I will have a liver ultrasound check this spring. Consider this:

"The normal brown color of stool occurs due to the presence of bilirubin. Bilirubin is formed as a breakdown product of hemoglobin (from red blood cells) in the liver and is secreted into the bile, which enters the intestines"

"pale yellow, greasy, foul-smelling stool: malabsorption of fat due to pancreatic insufficiency"
https://www.medicinenet.com/stool_color_and_texture_changes/symptoms.htm

This is just a explanation though, the sollution is still to minimize the POIS inflammation. But there might be a good idea to take pancreas enzymes to get the organ "going" though the POIS days. I've just got pancreas enzymes presciption from my doctor. Maybe you should check the state of your pancreas.

Do you share any of the symptoms of Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI)?
I lose weight when ejaculating, I ejaculated too much lately and lost most of the weight I gained by bulking up I went from 75kg to 66kg and before bulk I was 63kg

Have you tried immunotherapy? Ask an immunotherapist if they can do POIS immunotherapy, if autoimmunity is eliminated it won't lead to inflammation/cortisol release which will not shrink organs further and let your body to heal and the pancreas to regrow to their proper sizes
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General POIS Discussions / Re: My POIS Symptoms
« Last post by Journey on January 19, 2022, 03:55:39 PM »
"in POIS my stool tends to become lighter and more yellowish in color". I get the exacly the same symptom and it stays this way many days after the POIS period. I didnt have this the first decades, it arrived during the last 5 years. I strongly belive this symptom it is related to the pancreas or/and the liver, which both lowers there capacity during POIS inflammation. A CT-scan showed that my pancreas were smaller then normal and I will have a liver ultrasound check this spring. Consider this:

"The normal brown color of stool occurs due to the presence of bilirubin. Bilirubin is formed as a breakdown product of hemoglobin (from red blood cells) in the liver and is secreted into the bile, which enters the intestines"

"pale yellow, greasy, foul-smelling stool: malabsorption of fat due to pancreatic insufficiency"
https://www.medicinenet.com/stool_color_and_texture_changes/symptoms.htm

This is just a explanation though, the sollution is still to minimize the POIS inflammation. But there might be a good idea to take pancreas enzymes to get the organ "going" though the POIS days. I've just got pancreas enzymes presciption from my doctor. Maybe you should check the state of your pancreas.

Do you share any of the symptoms of Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI)?
I have pancreatic enzyme mezym at home and have used it some times, coffee too makes the stool color and quality better and makes it more solid leaving less wipe
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General POIS Discussions / POIS advertisement efforts have got /r/POIS to 1500 members
« Last post by Journey on January 19, 2022, 03:50:39 PM »
For last months I and other POISers have worked to post info about POIS on /r/NoFap and other subreddits and places on the Internet

Now /r/POIS has 1500 members

There is one issue with this forum though

The verification question could be easier and the software should be switched to XenForo as SMF is outdated and POISCenter looks like a semi-abandoned psychiatric ward fluorescent light early 2000s ARG community - Quantum or who was in charge of forum design/management - create a crowdfund for a XenForo license or whatever is needed to switch and use plugins/software that transfer forum data

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Hormonal Causes and Treatments / Re: Medical ways to reduce cortisol?
« Last post by berlin1984 on January 19, 2022, 12:44:53 PM »
Ray Peat on Cortisol

In other news, I started with Relora two days ago. Will make a thread about it.
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Hormonal Causes and Treatments / Re: Medical ways to reduce cortisol?
« Last post by BoneBroth on January 19, 2022, 10:23:00 AM »
Peat?
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Hormonal Causes and Treatments / Re: Fenugreek + Garlic...
« Last post by BoneBroth on January 19, 2022, 10:21:30 AM »
If you could, try if you can tolerate millet porridge, I'm eating it every morning. Its low fodmap, low GI and less irritating on th eintestines and more alkaline to the body then oat meal. 1 dm millet seeds in twice the water, bring it to boil, empty the water and add 1 news dl water and make it simmer for 10 minutes.
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Lifestyle Diary and POIS Summaries / Re: Progecitor's summary
« Last post by Progecitor on January 19, 2022, 07:50:59 AM »
L-Theanine [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. L-theanine seems to help in a lot of things, however it just doesn't do this very effectively. I still had bloodshot eyes, but it was reduced a bit. I still had depression, but it was reduced a bit. I still had gut issues, but it was reduced a bit. It also had a noticeable protective effect in regard of exercise intolerance, but it was not so good as astaxanthin. Enlarged lymphoid nodes were rather unchanged or only a bit better. I have tried to combine it with black tea, however experiences were only a bit better and I still had noticeable POIS symptoms. Nevertheless L-Theanine is a good candidate in a future stack.

Chinese skullcap (Scutellaria baicalensis root extract) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. Chinese skullcap is definitely beneficial, but it is still only one of the many supplements that help somewhat, but not to a great extent. I think it helped the most with my eye symptoms as they were quite alright even after the O, however it wasn't beneficial against exercise induced intolerance as I still developed severely burning bloodshot eyes when doing physical work. It was also of no use for depression. Gut issues were somewhat reduced, but not considerably. For now I would say that it has a weak-moderate effect. As it is another 5a-reductase inhibitor I could best compare it to Pygeum, which had about the same effectiveness.

Sodium butyrate [580 mg per capsule with 175 mg of butter acid; Rd: 2]: I took daily three capsules. I didn't have an O as I couldn't see the point. Sodium butyrate has about the same good and bad effects, although neither is too strong. The bad thing about it is that it clearly induces bloodshot eyes about 5-6 hours after ingestion. It felt like it had a mixed effect on gut issues, but at least from the third day stool quality was noticeably better, even so other symptoms remained rather general (baseline bad). Breast lymph nodes were also quite unchanged which indicates its ineffectiveness.

Inositol [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily three capsules, but I didn’t have an O. Similarly to others it had a somewhat positive effect on my eyes, however it didn't solve everything of course. Gut issues were a bit better, but depression was unchanged. I could say that it has an effectiveness of about weak-moderate, but in my opinion Chinese skullcap was still somewhat better even when I consider bloodshot eyes.

DHM - Dihydromyricetin (Ampelopsis grossedentata leaf extract) [220 mg per capsules; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. Unfortunately DHM didn't prove very useful.
It had a small benefit on bloodshot eyes, but it had a mixed effect on gut issues. I would have put DHM in the mixed category, but I was not feeling so bad even after the O and it helped somewhat with recovery, so in overall I could say that it has a small benefit at least. I still had rather average muscle fatigue, so either irisin is not induced or simply doesn't effect muscle fatigue that much.

Amla (Phyllanthus emblica) [bio, organic, raw powder; Rd: 5 g]: I took 3 smaller teaspoons per day. It had a minimal positive benefit on eyes and a small one on gut issues, so it was really not terrific, however amla had no adverse effects at least. It is also a constituent of Triphala, but probably not the most important one.

Triphala (Phyllanthus emblica, Terminalia bellirica, Terminalia chebula) [bio, organic, raw powder Rd: 2-5 g]: I took about half to one teaspoon three times a day and had an O. This one proved quite good especially for my eyes. It prevented bloodshot eyes from POIS and partially prevented it from exercise induced intolerance. I think its efficacy in this regard was better than that of Chinese skullcap, however astaxanthin was still better. Interestingly triphala not only negated the eye symptoms owing to coffee consumption, but also its mild laxative effect. I can't exactly say that I had constipation though. I think rhinitis was reduced a bit. Depression was weak, but could be felt. Morning photophobia could be felt, but was not especially bad.  I also can't say that triphala helped much with gut issues and it is the only reason I don’t give it a higher score. Nevertheless it may still work really well in some combination and it is rather inexpensive as an advantage.

L-Tyrosine [500 mg per capsules; Rd: 2]: I took two capsules, but I didn't have an O. Gut issues were possibly a bit better, however the eyes were as bloodshot as ever or maybe even more so. Other symptoms were quite average. I also had weak depression and mood was rather baseline. I had to stop taking it on the third day due to very bloodshot eyes. I don’t think I will test it any time soon again unless I find very convincing theoretical evidence that it should work on the long run. For now I will put this in the mixed category.

Milk thistle oil [100 % cold pressed; Rd: no value given, but probably around 1 teaspoon]: I consumed 3 teaspoons of oil daily and had an O. Milk thistle started out really good, but later it was not so effective, still it certainly has a merit. Even though I had an O it was not a clear test as the ejaculation was burning like capsaicin. The truth is that in the previous days I ate a lot of poppy seed and walnut cakes and they were still affecting POIS. Nevertheless milk thistle still helped noticeably. It even had an anti-depressive effect, although I also slept a bit worse. It reduced rhinitis, however it only had a lesser positive effect on bloodshot eyes and could not really compensate the effects of coffee. Gut issues were moderately better, but not considerably and muscle fatigue could be felt weakly even though I was not working. Breast lymph nodes were rather unchanged. Its overall effectiveness may be comparable to L-theanine, but it doesn't mean their effects were exactly alike.

Asafoetida [ground asafoetida (30 %) and fenugreek seeds]: I took 1/3 teaspoons a day and had an O. At first I though I was only testing asafoetida, but later I realized that it is actually a combination of asafoetida and fenugreek. I think it worked somewhat better than fenugreek alone, but its effectiveness was not terrific. Gut issues were noticeably and bloodshot eyes were minimally better. Otherwise other symptoms were rather average, but certainly not out of hand.
I could also experience the aphrodisiac effect mentioned for Asafoetida and could last more during masturbation. A possibly worrisome side-effect though was that sometimes I felt a sudden cramp in my heart especially shortly after consumption even though asafoetida is supposedly safe up to 15 grams a day. I think in a smaller amount it could be still used well in a prepack, but I don't think it should be used regularly or for recovery. Its effectiveness could be weak-to-moderate.

Red maca [bio, raw, gluten free, organic powder; Rd: 5-10 g]: I took 3 teaspoon scoops a day, but I did not have an O. It was disappointingly ineffective. Still it helped with gut issues to a moderate-good degree. I couldn't experience any effect on depression. I think it also induced bloodshot eyes to a small degree after about 1-2 hours of consumption, but later it seemed like red maca helped a bit. Nevertheless this effect was not significant either way. So red maca was not particularly effective, but as a comparison I would still rather take this than sodium butyrate at least if I didn't know better. The overall effectiveness is weak-to-moderate.

Yellow maca [bio, raw, organic powder; Rd:1-3 teaspoon daily]: I took 3 teaspoons daily on POIS days. It definitely had a better effect than red maca powder. Unfortunately it didn't have a pronounced antidepressive effect, although I wasn't particularly depressed while I took it and I felt rather well actually. It certainly had a definite positive effect on my eyes. I can't say this effect was almighty, but still considerable. When I ate something bad the eyes still became bloodshot and it could only partially handle exercise induced intolerance. Gut issues were also considerably better. The only side-effect that may have been due to maca is that on the first day I had a rare nasal congestion, but on the following days this didn’t occur. Breast lymph nodes were also relatively unchanged which means that even though I was noticeably better, POIS was still lingering in my body ready to strike.

Black maca (maca negra) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took daily 5 capsules (2+2+1), but I didn't have an O. Unfortunately black maca also doesn't seem to have the power of yellow maca. This doesn't mean it wasn't beneficial, but certainly not to a considerable extent. I still had bloodshot eyes in general and sometimes it looked like black maca actually helped somewhat in this regard, but at other times the eyes remained consistently average, so this effect was not significant. Black maca also helped somewhat with gut issues, but only about as much as red maca. Of course it had no effect on depression which remained rather baseline. I couldn't note anything else out of the ordinary which means it is probably safe to use, but I don't see any point preferring this variety over yellow maca.

Damiana (Turnera diffusa) [4:1 dried leaf extract with 460 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules daily without an O. Damiana was really good for the eyes as they were much clearer than usual. When doing physical work I still had bloodshot eyes, but by the time I was going home it was only weakly bloodshot, so it partially protects against exercise induced intolerance. It also seems important that its effectiveness peaks around 6 hours after intake, so any benefit is most pronounced at this time and not right away. Damiana also proved to be quite good for the gut issues, although not as much as medicinal mushrooms of course. It did not have a distinct anti-depressive effect, though I was not really depressed generally and sometimes it felt like depression faded in-and-out as a small fluctuation. Breast lymph nodes were also quite unchanged. I can't say much about the aphrodisiac effect without an O, but it felt like the dick was a bit desensitized, which usually results in an increased endurance in my case.
Its overall efficacy seems very similar to that of yellow maca powder, though it may be less safe to use in the long run. Particularly there is a possible side-effect as on the third day after the third capsule I developed some lower leg pain, though I am not sure if it was due to Damiana or the fatigue of the muscles due to all the physical work I currently do. In the first place the only reason I dared to take such a high dose is that a fibromyalgic patient supposedly used the double of this amount for years to successfully treat his/her condition. This of course further reinforces the parallelism of the two conditions.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientreview-703-damiana?conditionid=&sortval=1&pagenumber=2

Yellow maca capsules (retest of the original one) [6:1 extract with 600 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 4-6 capsules a day (2+1-2+2). I currently can't afford an O due to work, but I wanted to compare its effectiveness to the other maca products, so I only took this for a few days. I can say that it still works really well and better than all the other maca products I have tried so far. I have to emphasize that it doesn't treat POIS perfectly, but still results in a noticeable improvement even on its own. The eye issues were much better. The gut issues were also much better. Most importantly I can still feel as the anti-depressive effect hits me and my eyes and mind suddenly become clear though only for a short time before depression re-emerges. Fortunately later the anti-depressive effect usually returns again, although less distinctly, but still with a good duration. When I am working I don't usually notice this quite well, but nevertheless the effect is quite notable in comparison to my usual zombified state.
The unusual effectiveness of this product may be due to the fact of it being an extract. This also means if someone had no luck with a particular maca product they may still have some with another one.

Diosgenin (wild yam root extract) [190 mg per capsule with 30 mg diosgenin saponins; Rd: 1-2]: This is also a wild yam product, but with a standardized diosgenin content. It is marketed as a testosterone and estrogen stimulator. I took 5 capsules a day (2+2+1) (which equals to about 950 mg extract with 150 mg diosgenin) and also had an O. It certainly has a beneficial effect that is somewhat comparable to that of yellow maca capsules, although it wasn't as potent as the original wild yam root capsules I had tried first. Its effect on the eyes was noticeably good, but I could still experience weakly bloodshot eyes. Put against exercise intolerance it was only partially protective as I could still develop bloodshot eyes, however they regenerated faster than usual when I could rest. I couldn't experience a distinct anti-depressive effect like with yellow maca capsules, however depression was quite low and I could think relatively well. Gut issues were also better, but again not as much as with yellow maca capsules. Morning photophobia was unusually low the second day after O which also indicates a potential benefit. As I remember the other wild yam reduced the breast lymph nodes a little even if I developed a chest pain, however I couldn't feel a big change with this one. Its effect was also not so rapid to develop, I think it peaked about 3-6 hours after intake. Most importantly I experienced no particular adverse side-effects for the few days I took it, so at least it seems rather safe compared to the other wild yam root supplement.

Wuweizi (Schisandra Chinensis) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules and had an O. It had no major effect on POIS, but it was certainly beneficial. Bloodshot eyes were only slightly better than average, so it was not really good for this symptom. Wuweizi also had a moderate benefit on gut issues. I was feeling relatively well (for acute POIS) on the first morning after O as I had no particular photophobia or depression. Unfortunately the same day unexpectedly I had to work way more than usual and this lead me to develop a usual and very uncomfortable acute chest inflammation due to exercise intolerance. Of course this also forced me to change treatment.
One other interesting detail could be when I was masturbating somehow I felt more potent. As Schisandra is known to potentiate the effects of sildenafil (Viagra) I can only guess that this have been somehow related to that. Nevertheless based on the short time I tested it I can only give it a weak score. Even so it may be useful on the long run as it has a potent hepatoprotective effect.

I can also provide some preliminary reports:
At one time I tried a moderate amount of choline drops (choline-chloride) and this deteriorated my symptoms. I also ate some liver (choline-rich) the same day which was not the best idea. I certainly developed bloodshot eyes due to choline and the next day I felt rather awful and also developed a headache reminiscent of my early POIS years. I think this could be what others call the balloon-like headache as it felt like the outer edge of the brain was in pain and could feel the outline in the skull. It was an unpleasant experience and it took me a few days to get better with good supplements. Of course this still needs to be verified once more for good measure, but I will have to be really well to undergo such a likely torture again.

I also tried inosine, but I don't think it did anything particular. However as a possible side effect I think it can disturb sleeping as I awoke several times during the nights of the two consecutive days I took it. I  still have to test it a little more though to decide if it is really true and to ascertain its efficacy on POIS. I think it is important to emphasize that it did nothing bad even though being a possible mast cell activator.

I did a little update in the diet list as well (shown in red).
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General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS / Re: Facebook Group
« Last post by Magicwand on January 19, 2022, 03:51:48 AM »
Hi

Would anyone like to care to cross-post to the facebook group a link to a new anonymous survey on POIS?

https://forms.gle/ncVAqxmKoaPc36Ha9

MW

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