-
Warrior's (r/tteezzkk) (https://www.reddit.com/user/tteezzkk) 2025 POIS Protocol
Medical Disclaimer:
This information is for personal documentation purposes only, not medical advice. The author is not a healthcare professional. Readers should conduct independent research, consult a qualified specialist knowledgeable about POIS, and exercise personal judgment before taking any action. Use this information at your own risk.
Diet & Lifestyle:
——Starch-free animal-based w/ some starches I tolerate better: navy beans & brown rice
——Caloric surplus (at least 3.5k daily) for optimal testosterone production & glutathione synthesis. Easy to undereat since dialling in electrolytes & improving metabolic flexibility
——Eggs, steak, fatty ground red meat, & Greek yoghurt w/ maple syrup anecdotally are all powerful during POIS recovery. Beef liver should be excellent in theory, but don't notice a big difference imo. Mussels & navy beans (1 cup) improve my eye aches.
——Sleep (ideally 8+ hours) & exercise
——Live according to nature as much as possible, natural sunlight exposure & ocean swims
——Vitamin D3 serum levels ideally to at least 50-70ng/mL (https://vitamindwiki.com/Is+50+ng+of+vitamin+D+too+high%2C+just+right%2C+or+not+enough#Overview_of_the_controversy) via direct exposure.
Current Supplement Stack:
——Half to 1 full capsule of B 150 Forte Complex (Nature's Own)
——Playing around with riboflavin 100-400mg extra (Masterjohn), nicotinamide as a demethylator
——Nicotinamide 500-1000mg take as needed, for (1) removing excess methyl groups (side-effects from excess B vitamins or methyl groups inc. low motivation, low energy, droopy eyes, apathetic, etc) OR (2) 1-6 hours before POIS cluster sensitivity i.e., releasing or food
——Cordyceps (Oriveda) 1-2g per release or as needed [improves POIS, may change to RealMushrooms brand to save money]
——Monolaurin 1-3g per release or as needed [improves food sensitivities, take w/ probiotics]
——Caffeine
——NAC 1-2g occasionally
My POIS Symptoms & Links
Old Symptoms (2018ish Onwards): I used to experience chronically intense brainfog, social anxiety, mood disturbances, and fatigue for at least 3+ days following releasing. I was so unstable at one point I had a fear of developing schizophrenia... I talk about this in my 6 year journey battling POIS video here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L-BnB9EQEM) I still have food sensitivities that manifest in the form of body aches and other POIS-like symptoms when eating non animal-based foods.
First tested fenugreek & garlic with a gluten-free diet on the 07/07/21, having begun a gluten-free diet a few weeks/month prior.
-
Thanks for posting. Lots of interesting stuff in your reddit post especially, thanks for that.
-
Common animal-based deficiencies (test & monitor accordingly)
——Vitamin K2
——Vitamin E
——Boron (prune juice, avocado, raisins, peaches, apples)
——Manganese (mussels, maple syrup, black tea)
——Magnesium (coconut water, navy beans, brocolli, medjool dates, & milk)
——Copper (8.6mg in 60g of beef liver)
——Iron (beef liver, beef muscle meat, navy beans)
——Molybdenum (200mcg per cup of navy/baked beans)
Meals/foods where I notice distinctively feeling better afterwards (in general):
——Whole avocado mashed w/ minced onion, black pepper, & tomatoes
——Salmon w/ roasted brocolli, cauliflower, carrot, & kale
——Red meat steak, fatty ground beef/lamb, eggs, Greek yoghurt w/ maple syrup
——Orange juice combined with red meat (AB foundation)
——Sardines w/ ACV
——Dried mango
Retired OR Cancelled Supplements:
——SAMe 200mg *Gamechanger initially. No longer works as powerful as it initially did
——Fenugreek *Appears to act like a methyl donor. No longer makes me feel good. Initially was a gamechanger
——Raw garlic. *No longer seems necessary to take. Not sure if in the end it was making me feel worst. Maybe useful again in future, will see
——Glycine *Never felt good taking glycine
——Citrate *Worstens eye pressure. Happens with magnesium citrate & potassium citrate. Other mineral forms do not cause issues.
——Apigenin & RLA (for now) *Didn't really notice much
——Black Seed Oil *Caused weird changes to vision (whitening of visual field). Maybe improved POIS slightly
——Shilajit *Caused weird mental symptoms very similar to when people describe acetylcholine overload, like a very subtle depression
Food Sensitivities:
——I appear to be sensitive to virtually ALL plant foods, but especially starches. They inflame my symptoms by 900%.
——Monolaurin improves food sensitivities to veggies, but probably still feel my best on a strict Animal-Based.
——Seeminly don't feel good after PUFA meals i.e., almonds, fatty chicken
Best diet: ketogenic wholefoods
Second best: animal-based by Paul Saladino (strictest tier) strictly no starches
What causes all these food sensitivities to begin with?
Pathogenic infection > POIS > systemic inflammation > leaky gut > food sensitivities
My food sensitivities improve sharply after 1-2 weeks of abstinence which would further support this theory.
Master list of things I still need to try (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg43193#msg43193)
My main objective these days is to improve my food sensitivities so that I can eat a normal diet. My food sensitivities and POIS appear to share the same cause. Despite significantly improving my POIS, I am ultimately still very motivated to cure POIS as I believe it would also cure my food sensitivities.
Old Posts
Effectiveness of animal-based diet versus autoimmune protocol diet on POIS (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg45683#msg45683)
Latest update on my POIS, a new hypothesis to how/why my solution works (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg45466#msg45466)
Initial overwhelming success with fenugreek & garlic (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=27.msg41882#msg41882)
My POIS story & journey (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/o98vcg/my_experience_with_pois_healing/)
Appointment with Dr. Michael Lowy (POIS specialist) (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg45316#msg45316)
Great post on functional medicine & factors to check in regards to healing POIS from the root cause (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4232.0)
Raw freshly minced garlic is a lot more effective than garlic pills (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=27.msg42022#msg42022)
First tested fenugreek & garlic with a gluten-free diet on the 07/07/21. Started a gluten-free diet a few weeks/month prior. ;D
My old POIS symptoms (thankfully a thing of the past!):
POIS began when I was around 17-18ish (never had it before then). Symptoms included generalised anxiety (which created & intensified social anxiety), intense physical fatigue, brain fog, agitation, light body aches, for at least 3-5 days depending on how many releases. Severe body aches/pressures in first hour. These became exponentially worst the more I ejaculated in a short period of time. I would need to do 20 days of abstinence in order to ejaculate and not experience POIS. More recently, I have noticed frequent urination, diarrhea (inability to absorb fats it seems), and appetite suppression as additional symptoms to my POIS.
MASTER LIST OF POIS EXPERIMENTS:
POIS & Food Sensitivity Experimentation List
NAC + quercetin immune therapy, explore high dosages, safe protocols, co-factor nutrients i.e., glycine, molybdenum, etc. I think NAC could be really powerful long-term for clearing POIS, biofilm disrupter etc.
High dose thiamine
Maca root (must be high quality)
Nervous system relaxation techniques i.e., kriya pranayama, cranial instability exercises, vagus nerve stretches, etc
Cranial instability, nervous system dysfunction
Minerals
CoQ10
Pre-packs inc. niacin & nicotinamide (two different types of b3), fenugreek, raw garlic, and ceremonial grade matcha green tea, maybe include SAMe and eggs
NAC inc. co-factors
Cordyceps (must be high quality)
Andrographis
Monolaurin
Apitherapy – bee venom therapy, propolis, royal jelly, etc
Bee venom therapy, specifically targetted on gut or trigeminal nerve
Reishi (must be high quality) *Do not try Lions Mane, r/lionsmanerecovery
Targeted immune therapy
Targeted “killing” therapy for infection, bacteria, etc.
L-glucosamine
Glutathione
D3 co-factors i.e., magnesium
Agmatine sulfate
Accupuncture
Green tea/matcha
Shilajit appeared to make me depressed, very similar to how people describe cholinerginic induced depression
Omega-3 I feel worst after taking Omega-3, having tried various times and different brands
Nanna1 inspired immune stack inc. AHCC, propolis, monolaurin, Andrographis, beta-glucan, vitamin C, megaspore probiotic, IgG I stopped the immune stack as something was giving me strange eye symptoms that persisted for quite a while. Fortunately these symptoms mostly relieved after stopping, but this experience taught me that for future immune stacks, better to slowly ease in, taking only what is necessary & targeted, etc.
Vitamin C IV
Liposomal Vitamin C Feels very similar to how AlphaGPC makes me feel. Stimulating, almost like a small caffeine hit, but mildly depressing. Regular ascorbic acid is preferred.
High-quality Shilajit (like lotus blooming herbs)
Comprehensive nutritional testing (NutriStat) -> Testing Nutritional Status by Chris Masterjohn, supplement deficiencies accordingly
Plug typical diet into chronometer & identify and nutrient deficiencies. Focus on & satisfy these in the evenings through food sources.
Sea moss & mineral complex
Oriveda cordyceps & reishi
Apitherapy (bee sting therapy, raw propolis, Brazilian beef propolis, royal jelly, bee pollen, etc.)
Agmatine sulfate
Medicinal supplements/herbs/foods like saw palmetto, maca, pine pollen, deer antler, oysters, tongkat ali, glutathione, NAC (w/ molybdenum, selenium, & glycine)
Thousands of Ayurveda herbs/foods/formulations
Research Ayurveda top revitalising foods/herbs/medicines/formulations
Use Claude AI to explore further leads
Low saturated fat animal-based diet: I don’t think this would work long term. 1) It restricts variety i.e., no variety cuts of steak, on top of what already is a very restricted diet in and of itself 2) Eating lean red meat 5% ground beef burgers daily would get old very quickly 3) Cutting out Greek yoghurt, which is one of my favourite AB meals is again beating on this point of restricting foods in and already restricted diet 4) I think a better strategy is obviously not unnecessarily eating saturated fat while doing everything I can to master the topic of cholesterol and reduce all of my risk factors for CVD, religiously checking all appropriate blood markers including fasting insulin, C-reactive protein, inflammatory markers, LDL ratios, etc and doing dexa scans (coronary calcium scans etc)
Neuro-Mag (magnesium L- Threonate) for cognitive function & boosting magnesium
Glutathione
Mineral complex’s, sprays, etc.
Pink himilayan salt
Caution: Some supplements like certain mushrooms i.e., Lions Mane, or adaptogens i.e., ashwaganda can have some very nasty side-effects. Visit r/LionsManeRecovery to hear stories of how Lion’s Mane has completely ruined their life. The point being is that exploring supplements carry risk. Always be extra careful especially with plant based supplements. Minerals and vitamins are generally safer at appropriate dosages.
Mineral supplements e.g., “Super Max Mineral Complex”
https://www.inflammationmastery.com/dr-alex-kennerly-vasquez
https://www.inflammationmastery.com/diet
https://caringmedical.com/prolotherapy-news/cervical-scoliosis/
https://kundalini.yoga/topics/nervous-system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiEQ9AcUUEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O6OdgCxQQc
https://bees.org.au/library/12614730
Strategic prioritisation:
• POIS is most likely an infection of the CNS
• POIS is an immune inflammatory disorder
• Treatments I am most bullish on inc. bee venom therapy, acupuncture, and immune/viral/bacterial holistic treatment
• Supplements most bullish on inc.
-
Bought a garlic mincer, and oh man.
This bad boy. https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/koncis-garlic-press-stainless-steel-60173564/
Recommend to those who take garlic for POIS ;D
-
warrioronthetrot: I've used that bad boy for years. Wonder if the allicin is forming as much when you squeeze the garlic as when you are cutting it.
Do you take the raw garlic every day as maintenance or just before and after O?
-
warrioronthetrot: I've used that bad boy for years. Wonder if the allicin is forming as much when you squeeze the garlic as when you are cutting it.
Do you take the raw garlic every day as maintenance or just before and after O?
I think it would form just as much allicin. It minces it very thoroughly. I also still let it sit there (as a ball of minced garlic) for 5-10 minutes.
I take garlic and fenugreek on days I O, whether that be after or beforehand. Beforehand is always ideal but it still works if I just take it afterwards.
I will also take it on days I experience what I call POIS residue, which only happens when I ingest lectins.
-
No longer on lectin-free diet. Garlic & fenugreek solution still holding up. Proof of the significance of fenugreek and garlic for my POIS 'solution'.
Found a fix to my afternoon brain fog and mood disturbances: B-complex. Works like an absolute charm -- improved symptoms by 90%. Must of been deficient in some kind of B-vitamin. I eat a pretty diverse whole food diet so I am pretty surprised I am deficient in B-vitamins.
What's interesting is that this same afternoon brain fog and mood issues which were improved from fenugreek, garlic, and not eating lectins has now been solved through B-vitamins. The body is very complex. Updating main post to reflect changes.
-
No longer on lectin-free diet. Garlic & fenugreek solution still holding up. Proof that fenugreek and garlic is the root solution to my POIS 'fix', not a gluten free diet.
Found a fix to my afternoon brain fog and mood disturbances: B-complex. Works like an absolute charm -- improved symptoms by 90%. Must of been deficient in some kind of B-vitamin. I eat a pretty diverse whole food diet so I am pretty surprised I am deficient in B-vitamins.
What's interesting is that this same afternoon brain fog and mood issues which were improved from fenugreek, garlic, and not eating lectins has now been solved through B-vitamins. The body is very complex. Updating main post to reflect changes.
Thanks for the update, WOTT, I have updated accordingly in section 3 of the POIS Types Chart :)
-
No longer on lectin-free diet. Garlic & fenugreek solution still holding up. Proof that fenugreek and garlic is the root solution to my POIS 'fix', not a gluten free diet.
Found a fix to my afternoon brain fog and mood disturbances: B-complex. Works like an absolute charm -- improved symptoms by 90%. Must of been deficient in some kind of B-vitamin. I eat a pretty diverse whole food diet so I am pretty surprised I am deficient in B-vitamins.
What's interesting is that this same afternoon brain fog and mood issues which were improved from fenugreek, garlic, and not eating lectins has now been solved through B-vitamins. The body is very complex. Updating main post to reflect changes.
Thanks for the update, WOTT, I have updated accordingly in section 3 of the POIS Types Chart :)
thank you, the POISers all over the world should thank you
-
Ran an experiment today.
Hadn't ejaculated for approximately 12 days. Wanted to test the power of fenugreek standing on it's own without the raw garlic.
Also consumed about 2oz of beef liver, 1.5ish oz beef kidney, and 1oz of beef heart beforehand.
Ejaculated 3 times in the span of about 2 hours. Took 2 1000mg fenugreek pills after each orgasm.
Fenugreek did well. The 3 o's did take it out of me energetically, but as far as mental clarity, the mind is feeling sharp (aided by the beef organs as well imo) and good. Energy came back around too.
Noticed too that the body was 'primed' for the 2nd and 3rd orgasm. The 1st orgam definitely triggered immediate light POIS reaction, but once the fenugreek was absorbed (I took it afterwards) it all settled down very quickly. Which means that it is certainly ideal to take the fenugreek before orgasm, but it is still effective if taken only afterwards. If you take it afterwards you will experience a light POIS come up until the body absorbs the fenugreek and gets to work fixing it.
-
Ran an experiment today.
Hadn't ejaculated for approximately 12 days. Wanted to test the power of fenugreek standing on it's own without the raw garlic.
Also consumed about 2oz of beef liver, 1.5ish oz beef kidney, and 1oz of beef heart beforehand.
Ejaculated 3 times in the span of about 2 hours. Took 2 1000mg fenugreek pills after each orgasm.
Fenugreek did well. The 3 o's did take it out of me energetically, but as far as mental clarity, the mind is feeling sharp (aided by the beef organs as well imo) and good. Energy came back around too.
Noticed too that the body was 'primed' for the 2nd and 3rd orgasm. The 1st orgam definitely triggered immediate light POIS reaction, but once the fenugreek was absorbed (I took it afterwards) it all settled down very quickly. Which means that it is certainly ideal to take the fenugreek before orgasm, but it is still effective if taken only afterwards. If you take it afterwards you will experience a light POIS come up until the body absorbs the fenugreek and gets to work fixing it.
Fenugreek gave me a lot of help when I used it, glad to hear you find it useful too. I also had a meaty meal before O as part of my routine.
-
Fenugreek gave me a lot of help when I used it, glad to hear you find it useful too. I also had a meaty meal before O as part of my routine.
Yes, I?ve been using fenugreek with garlic for quite some time. Extremely effective for me. But was hesitant to try it on its own because to be honest I wasn?t sure whether it was the raw garlic or fenugreek doing the hard yards of fixing the POIS.
-
Seeing as POIS is an issue pertaining to the balls, at least in some fashion, maybe it is logical ancestrally to eat some beef testicle.
-
Ran another experiment to double check fenugreek on its own without the help of garlic or any notorious foods i.e. beef organs. My hypothesis was that the fenugreek fixes my POIS mental symptoms, while the raw garlic improves my POIS physical symptoms which is fatigue.
Ejaculated once last night, primed the body with 2g fenugreek before and after ejaculating. Woke up the next morning, zero POIS mental symptoms, though my body was notably tired (kinda like still waking up tired even though I nice deep sleep). My POIS mental symptoms were debilitating anxiety, brainfog, depression, etc.
That morning I took some raw garlic with milk to see if any notable change occurs in my energy levels. Definitely felt improvement to physical energy after taking the raw garlic.
So from now I on I characterise each ingredient as this:
1) 2g Fenugreek - fixes POIS mental symptoms
2) Raw garlic crushed - improves POIS physical symptoms of fatigue
The mental symptoms of my POIS were by far the most debilitating part of my POIS so in a sense, I can get away with not having the raw garlic but the fenugreek is an absolute must for me.
-
Ran another experiment to double check fenugreek on its own without the help of garlic or any notorious foods i.e. beef organs. My hypothesis was that the fenugreek fixes my POIS mental symptoms, while the raw garlic improves my POIS physical symptoms which is fatigue.
Ejaculated once last night, primed the body with 2g fenugreek before and after ejaculating. Woke up the next morning, zero POIS mental symptoms, though my body was notably tired (kinda like still waking up tired even though I nice deep sleep). My POIS mental symptoms were debilitating anxiety, brainfog, depression, etc.
That morning I took some raw garlic with milk to see if any notable change occurs in my energy levels. Definitely felt improvement to physical energy after taking the raw garlic.
So from now I on I characterise each ingredient as this:
1) 2g Fenugreek - fixes POIS mental symptoms
2) Raw garlic crushed - improves POIS physical symptoms of fatigue
The mental symptoms of my POIS were by far the most debilitating part of my POIS so in a sense, I can get away with not having the raw garlic but the fenugreek is an absolute must for me.
Thanks for this detailed information, WOTT ! I have added a link to this experiment results post in the Fenugreek/Garlic section of the POIS Types Chart :)
-
Vitamin B complex + methyl b12... can't be said enough. Improves my mental health significantly.
Fenugreek - prevents chronic mental POIS symptoms ie. anxiety, brainfog, etc
Garlic - improves physical energy
Vitamin B complex + Vitamin methyl B12 - significantly improves dopamine/motivation, gives me superior mental health
-
Almost been an entire year since discovering fenugreek & garlic. They both still hold up very well to this day & completely changed my life really, eliminating all the chronic symptoms I used to experience (chronic brainfog, anxiety, fatigue, etc).
Though I do want to explicitly mention I still do feel subtle (yet very significant) symptoms. Whether they are 'natural' from orgasm, I honestly don't know. Lot's of eastern traditions emphasis how too frequent ejaculations weaken men. Some of them even give ideal ejaculation frequencies. I can ejaculate as much as I please with the fenugreek, garlic, and B-vitamins, however I do lose the extra "edge" that I can only experience when abstaining over a week or two (this extra edge is what I believe these eastern traditions are referring to). This extra edge makes me more loving, more energetic, more "masculine", more confident, overall. While my existence when experiencing frequent ejaculation is a lot more mundane generally speaking. I am more prone to instant gratification activities, less likely to engage in delayed gratification purposeful things, less passionate overall.
-
Almost been an entire year since discovering fenugreek & garlic. They both still hold up very well to this day & completely changed my life really, eliminating all the chronic symptoms I used to experience (chronic brainfog, anxiety, fatigue, etc).
Though I do want to explicitly mention I still do feel subtle (yet very significant) symptoms. Whether they are 'natural' from orgasm, I honestly don't know. Lot's of eastern traditions emphasis how too frequent ejaculations weaken men. Some of them even give ideal ejaculation frequencies. I can ejaculate as much as I please with the fenugreek, garlic, and B-vitamins, however I do lose the extra "edge" that I can only experience when abstaining over a week or two (this extra edge is what I believe these eastern traditions are referring to). This extra edge makes me more loving, more energetic, more "masculine", more confident, overall. While my existence when experiencing frequent ejaculation is a lot more mundane generally speaking. I am more prone to instant gratification activities, less likely to engage in delayed gratification purposeful things, less passionate overall.
any fodmap would not work for me
union and garlic are massive fodmaps, cant eat any at all
-
Might test going gluten-free again to see if it has any effect on my POIS. When I first tried this stack, I was gluten-free. Pretty sure my energy levels were more sustained back then.
This is my current POIS stack:
- Fenugreek
- Raw garlic
- Active B complex
It completely removes all of my chronic symptoms, but I still feel relatively drained overall. I want to see if there are any improvements to my drive and energy on a gluten-free diet. Might also test matcha green tea & nictoinamide again, to see if I notice any difference.
-
Testing
Raw crushed garlic
Fenugreek
B complex
Higher dose B vitamins (both ACTIVE/METHYL & non-active types, double dosing 1 of each) & sublingual methyl B12 twice.
Want to see if I can improve my motivation and "thrust" for life after O.
TESTED EDIT:
Tested the Active B Complex + Methyl B12. Didn't really notice much of a difference apart from the general improvement I always experience from them. Haven't tested non-active forms yet.
-
Do you also consume the garlic after an O, or just before?
Also, how many cloves of garlic do you consume?
Thanks for the info.
-
Do you also consume the garlic after an O, or just before?
Also, how many cloves of garlic do you consume?
Thanks for the info.
Ideally I take the fenugreek and garlic at least 40 minutes before hand. But it works just as effectively it seems if taken afterwards, the only difference is that you might have to "wait" for the fenugreek and garlic to work if taken afterwards, where you might feel a POIS comeup.
Just half a clove, minced. You don't need too much otherwise you'll smell. In saying that, for your first time I would do an entire clove just to have the maximum possible effect. 1 clove before AND after. (if the clove is massive, then 0.5 clove, etc)
-
18/07/22
Going to be going gluten-free for 2 weeks. Day 1 done & dusted.
Going to see if it has any significant effect on my POIS. Currently, I can ejaculate as many times as I want with fenugreek & garlic and still live a "decent" life however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Just to clarify, my POIS was chronic before I found fenugreek and garlic: chronic anxiety, fatigue, and brain-fog. The fenugreek and garlic pretty much stopped all of those chronic symptoms, the difference is/was absolute night and day.
I was gluten-free when I first tested fenugreek and garlic, and I can't remember if my motivation, energy, and mood was effected like it is today without the gluten-free.
-
however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Even "normal" people report feeling different following an O, especially when they happen frequently. The sudden release of dopamine, prolactin, oxytocin, endorphins, vasopressin etc has a significant non-POIS effect on most people. Men are commonly reported to feel sleepy after an O.
I don't think it will ever be possible for us to be completely unaffected by having an O, but that just puts us in the same boat as most other humans.
-
however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Even "normal" people report feeling different following an O, especially when they happen frequently. The sudden release of dopamine, prolactin, oxytocin, endorphins, vasopressin etc has a significant non-POIS effect on most people. Men are commonly reported to feel sleepy after an O.
I don't think it will ever be possible for us to be completely unaffected by having an O, but that just puts us in the same boat as most other humans.
Very interesting. Maybe EVERYONE
“has POIS”, we POISers just have the most extreme form!
-
however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Even "normal" people report feeling different following an O, especially when they happen frequently. The sudden release of dopamine, prolactin, oxytocin, endorphins, vasopressin etc has a significant non-POIS effect on most people. Men are commonly reported to feel sleepy after an O.
I don't think it will ever be possible for us to be completely unaffected by having an O, but that just puts us in the same boat as most other humans.
Yeah I agree with you generally speaking. I still sense I am experiencing mild or subtle POIS effect, different to what an average joe would experience. Can't remember if I felt any different when I was gluten-free, so I'm just double checking!
-
however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Even "normal" people report feeling different following an O, especially when they happen frequently. The sudden release of dopamine, prolactin, oxytocin, endorphins, vasopressin etc has a significant non-POIS effect on most people. Men are commonly reported to feel sleepy after an O.
I don't think it will ever be possible for us to be completely unaffected by having an O, but that just puts us in the same boat as most other humans.
Very interesting. Maybe EVERYONE
“has POIS”, we POISers just have the most extreme form!
There is a lot of eastern literature on how excess ejaculation drains the "life force energy" and "chi", depleting the man of his most powerful resource. One of my favourite authors David Deida dedicates an entire chapter to this idea, and the importance of ejaculation being consciously converted or chosen. https://deida.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/BK00906-interior-pages-44.pdf
Theres a tonne of interesting philosophy on the concept, a lot of which dates back centuries. This article has a great summation of the history. https://www.justinpatrickpierce.com/post/the-origins-of-seminal-retention
It seems like POIS is a chronic form of the "normal" effects of excess ejaculation.
-
Man, wery simple solution, do not eyaculate exscess and
woila, you are pois free.
I still didin,t meet a man who is near death from 1 eyaculation.
-
Man, wery simple solution, do not eyaculate exscess and
woila, you are pois free.
I still didin,t meet a man who is near death from 1 eyaculation.
Lol it's obviously a very nuanced subject.
-
however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Even "normal" people report feeling different following an O, especially when they happen frequently. The sudden release of dopamine, prolactin, oxytocin, endorphins, vasopressin etc has a significant non-POIS effect on most people. Men are commonly reported to feel sleepy after an O.
I don't think it will ever be possible for us to be completely unaffected by having an O, but that just puts us in the same boat as most other humans.
Yeah I agree with you generally speaking. I still sense I am experiencing mild or subtle POIS effect, different to what an average joe would experience. Can't remember if I felt any different when I was gluten-free, so I'm just double checking!
But of course, average joes don't think too much about how they feel after an O. We know we have POIS, so we notice any small changes in our mental/physical wellbeing after an O.
-
however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Even "normal" people report feeling different following an O, especially when they happen frequently. The sudden release of dopamine, prolactin, oxytocin, endorphins, vasopressin etc has a significant non-POIS effect on most people. Men are commonly reported to feel sleepy after an O.
I don't think it will ever be possible for us to be completely unaffected by having an O, but that just puts us in the same boat as most other humans.
Very interesting. Maybe EVERYONE
“has POIS”, we POISers just have the most extreme form!
Yes, it's possible that a lot of people have POIS on a sliding scale, but it's too mild for most people to notice.
-
however I do find that my mood (which can create social anxiety at times), motivation for life, and energy is not ideal compared to abstaining.
Even "normal" people report feeling different following an O, especially when they happen frequently. The sudden release of dopamine, prolactin, oxytocin, endorphins, vasopressin etc has a significant non-POIS effect on most people. Men are commonly reported to feel sleepy after an O.
I don't think it will ever be possible for us to be completely unaffected by having an O, but that just puts us in the same boat as most other humans.
Very interesting. Maybe EVERYONE
“has POIS”, we POISers just have the most extreme form!
There is a lot of eastern literature on how excess ejaculation drains the "life force energy" and "chi", depleting the man of his most powerful resource. One of my favourite authors David Deida dedicates an entire chapter to this idea, and the importance of ejaculation being consciously converted or chosen. https://deida.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/BK00906-interior-pages-44.pdf
Theres a tonne of interesting philosophy on the concept, a lot of which dates back centuries. This article has a great summation of the history. https://www.justinpatrickpierce.com/post/the-origins-of-seminal-retention
It seems like POIS is a chronic form of the "normal" effects of excess ejaculation.
Yes, before my POIS began in my early 20s I still noticed that Os would affect my motivation and "sharpness". Interesting links :)
-
Hey guys, just made a rather interesting discovery about my POIS protocol. I've been gluten free now for 3 days. Yesterday I E'd twice, and today I am feeling fantastic. I also took a non-active B complex this morning. I feel BETTER than what I normally do with my POIS solution. My motivation and confidence feels good and normal!
Essentially what I am getting at is that either 1) the gluten-free diet, or 2) non-active B complex or 3) both, are definitely positively improving my POIS and thus important to my personal protocol.
I was gluten-free when I first begun testing (over a year ago now), I think I took for granted how important that aspect to my POIS protocol was. Either that or the non-active B complex seems to do wonders for POIS over my active one. The active one however has fixed other brainfog issues.
Anyway, I will continue testing. . . ;D
Edit: to test to see if it's the gluten-free or B complex (or both), I will do some E tests, maintaining gluten-free but not taking any B complex. That should do the trick
-
Yes, it's possible that a lot of people have POIS on a sliding scale, but it's too mild for most people to notice.
Simple, no. Normal peoples feels normal post O, mans-
relaxed litle sleepenes etc, and thats it.
Even thouse who are severe adicitive do not get sick from O,
because i personaly know them a lot.
Me, hawe all pois clusters inluding CFS/ME, so peoples
peoples who hawe some cognitive changes after O, they
talk and think about pois from different angle.
When someone start ..ancinet energy lo..that is
ridicilous to mi in 21 cent..
Womans hawe pois too, what energy lose???
Some of them litle bit tired.. and that,s it.
Peoples do not get sick from refractory period,
so simple.
After reeding some posts here i wonder what we all doing
here? Lets all go home!
-
Yes, it's possible that a lot of people have POIS on a sliding scale, but it's too mild for most people to notice.
Simple, no. Normal peoples feels normal post O, mans-
relaxed litle sleepenes etc, and thats it.
Even thouse who are severe adicitive do not get sick from O,
because i personaly know them a lot.
Me, hawe all pois clusters inluding CFS/ME, so peoples
peoples who hawe some cognitive changes after O, they
talk and think about pois from different angle.
When someone start ..ancinet energy lo..that is
ridicilous to mi in 21 cent..
Womans hawe pois too, what energy lose???
Some of them litle bit tired.. and that,s it.
Peoples do not get sick from refractory period,
so simple.
After reeding some posts here i wonder what we all doing
here? Lets all go home!
I agree with a lot of your points.
Don't you think its interesting though that there is a lot of eastern literature talking about a very similar thing? lol
Maybe POIS existed centuries ago lmao
-
I add garlic to my diet (2-3 cloves a day). I have the feeling it helps.
-
I add garlic to my diet (2-3 cloves a day). I have the feeling it helps.
b_jim, i had a Taurine drink the other day and felt better.
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b0285149-206b-4aee-a934-51808f9404e0.2e25e37de848ac7e923b9469e2f225d4.jpeg)
-
Yes, it's possible that a lot of people have POIS on a sliding scale, but it's too mild for most people to notice.
When someone starts ..ancient energy lost..that is ridiculous to me in my 2 cents..
Women have POIS too, what energy lost???
Some of them get a litle bit tired.. and that’s it.
Don't you think its interesting though that there is a lot of eastern literature talking about a very similar thing? lol
Maybe POIS existed centuries ago lmao
Total agreement with Hopeoneday. And hurray.
Also there is a majority of forum agreement about this for the last 15 years (I have also been here since 2007).
Long ago, I “fell” for this Eastern literature/philosophy, but now: no longer.
More modern thinking is needed.
-
Peoples [sic] do not get sick from refractory period, so simple.
Not sure I agree. My theory since 2007 is the possibility that I have a sluggish refractory period, at least partially responsible for my POIS. When I stimulate a faster semen re-generation - - TRT, Cialis, etc. - - see my protocol - - I feel better.
No conclusive proof (yet) for or against. And i certainly could be wrong. Time (and research) will tell for sure!
-
You can hawe refratcory period that last my" two"
centuries :) if you ask me, (not sure for your lady)
but you cant be sick from it.
-
You can hawe refratcory [sic] period that last my" two" centuries :) if you ask me, (not sure for your lady) but you cant [sic] be sick from it.
bold empasis mine - - Demo
”The refractory period can have both mental and physiological effects.”
From Medical News Today
Opening/headline paragraph
https://tinyurl.com/mrpy98d8
My contention - -
For the average person: refractory period effects are not too bad
For a POISer: refractory period effects can be much worse
-
Can confirm the gluten-free & non-active B complex made a world of difference to my POIS solution. Garlic and fenugreek alone are not enough (for me!).
I E'd 6 times over 3 days a couple weeks ago and was definitely experiencing POIS when taking the fenugreek & garlic alone (although still not as chronic when I take nothing at all, they still improve my symptoms). I know because I went to see one of my favourite bands IRL and I was relatively miserable -- low energy (fatigue) and a pretty all round crappy mood, very clear to me it was because I ejaculated. If I took nothing (no fenugreek, no garlic) then my POIS would be undeniably intense -- pretty anxious, extreme fatigue, etc.
Went gluten-free for 3 days & took non-active B complex after ejaculating.
E'd 6 times over 3 days. Completely symptom free, apart from my back being inflamed for a day or two. Zero mental symptoms though.
You might think E'ing 6 times over 3 days is a lot, but this is after 2 weeks of abstaining and I am 21 years old haha. Builds up like a water tank.
So my current POIS solution is:
* Gluten-free diet
* 2g fenugreek before and after E
* Raw minced garlic, let it sit 5-10 minutes, before and after E
* Nature's Own Ultra B 150 Forte (has mostly non-active form of B vitamins) taken only afterwards
* Methyl B12 sublingual under the tongue, taken only afterwards 10 minutes after the B complex
I have an active B complex "Life Extension BioActive Complete B-Complex" which actually contains higher quality forms of the B vitamins but it doesn't seem as effective for my POIS interestingly enough. This still cured afternoon brainfog symptoms I used to experience. So I kind of swap between both brands, taking a B complex once every few days (give my body a break as they are pretty high dosage) or on ejaculation days I take the non-active B complex.
I still don't 100% know which variable of my POIS solution is responsible for what. I also thought in the past gluten-free was not necessary for me. All I know is that fenugreek, garlic, a "normal diet", and the active B complex (which is usually seen as a higher quality B complex then the non-active one I take), is not enough to remove my POIS. The 2 extra elements of gluten-free AND non-active B complex fixed my symptoms by pretty much 99%. Maybe 1 of those 2 changes are responsible, only time and testing will tell.
-
Ran a few more tests. Began eating a significant amount of food with gluten (bread, wraps, etc), tested the POIS solution along with the Nature's Own 150 B Forte, and symptoms were definitely not as bad. They have definitely been improved with Nature's Own 150 B Forte.
* Fenugreek
* Raw minced garlic
* Nature's Own 150 B Forte
These 3 are unnegotiable when it comes to my POIS solution. Other B Complexes DO NOT work at all compared to this specific one.
Still testing gluten-free aspect, not 100% sure if it is absolutely necessary although it does seem that the POIS solution and my state of mind is better overall when I'm on a gluten-free diet. Gluten seems to give me this subtle mental noise. Gluten does not seem reliable.
-
Had a medical appointment with Dr. Michael Lowy at Sydney Men's Health Clinic in Double Bay (https://www.sydneymenshealth.com.au/). He was pleasantly surprised about the fenugreek, garlic, gluten-free diet, and B-complex effectiveness of solving my POIS. Said that cases like this should be studied for science, unfortunately it is difficult to get funding given that POIS effects such a tiny group of the population.
He's seen an influx of POIS cases recently. (I believe there are lots of undiagnosed cases in the semen retention and nofap communities (r/semenretention r/nofap on reddit. We agreed that it is however difficult to discern between psychological guilt resulting from ejaculation and belief systems, and then actual physiological POIS types).
He said that the best/latest theory on POIS is that it is some kind of autoimmune condition.
-
My updated POIS solution, where I have individually tested each item & can confidently conclude they are 100% necessary for my POIS solution to work effectively:
* Fenugreek (2g 40 minutes before & immediately after)
* Raw minced garlic (1/4 clove minced, let it sit for 10 minutes, 40 minutes before & immediately after)
* Gluten-free diet
* Nature's Own 150 B Forte (taken daily, ideally some time after ejaculating)
Without the gluten-free component, my POIS solution works at about 70% effectiveness. I have also tested and tried other B complex's, but they do not seem to work as well as this specific one. I also eat a diet high in nutrient dense food including meat, eggs, bananas, fruit, rice, etc.
-
Going to play around with a grain-free / lectin free diet and see how it effects my POIS. Gonna have a few simple staples for my carbs: lots of sweet potato and mostly fruit
Sometimes I notice my POIS "come up" symptoms vary, even though I'm gluten-free. I think it may be because I am also intolerant to other grains and am continuously eating these at random times. Gluten certainly is the worst one for my POIS, and cutting it out was a great improvement.
https://www.thepaleomom.com/gluten-cross-reactivity-update-how-your-body-can-still-think-youre-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up/
https://selfhack.com/blog/dr-gundry-turning-off-autoimmunity-with-a-lectin-avoidance-diet/
https://drgundry.com/dr-gundrys-print-friendly-yes-no-lists/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/11-paul-saladino-md-the-carnivore-diet-autoimmune/id1439624238?i=1000435106811
-
Retrograde ejaculations are sneaky buggers. They can occur anytime with strong arousal and can sneak under the radar by giving you a very light POIS. Has happened to me a few times now. Manifests as maybe 10-30% of normal POIS intensity of symptoms, without the fatigue. Mild brain fog, feeling lazy and unmotivated, feeling a tad more anxious than usual, but nowhere near as anxious as a full blown POIS episode.
-
Experimenting with an animal based diet for 1 week beginning today. Only grass fed beef and organs, sardines, raw goats milk, and organic fruit and honey where possible. No vegetables, nuts, grains, seeds, tubers, or other oils, etc. Motivation for this is Paul Saladino MD's work.
The logic is that if I see improvement with gluten-free, it makes me think I've got some kind of sensitivity of autoimmune reaction to lectins. Will be interesting to see if this has any effect on my POIS. Lots of people have seen autoimmune diseases go into remission through carnivore diets.
-
Nice coincidence. I had ordered Desiccated Liver Tablets (beef) last week, they should arrive tomorrow.
Let's see if they make a difference in my general health and energy levels. (and POIS of course).
-
Nice coincidence. I had ordered Desiccated Liver Tablets (beef) last week, they should arrive tomorrow.
Let's see if they make a difference in my general health and energy levels. (and POIS of course).
I recommend having actual grass fed grass finished liver from a butcher you trust. Have like 2-4oz at least once in your life just to see how it goes! I know it?s unpalatable, but I just swallow it while holding my nose lol. You?ll feel a buzz afterwards, feels like natures B complex. I?ve had desiccated liver supplements before and I just can?t see how such a small portion of dried liver is going to give the same health benefits. Although they are certainly better than nothing, I have two tubs: one is desiccated liver, other is desiccated heart, liver and kidney.
I found too, if you soak the liver in full cream milk for an hour it removes some of the bad flavour. Some people have it raw, apparently it tastes worst when cooked (which makes sense to me) but I would only have it raw if you were certain of the source haha. Make sure you try the other offal meats as well including heart, kidney, and bone marrow. They all have unique nutrient profiles, very different to the basic muscle meat. I?m trying to have all of them to see if there is any synergistic effects or nutrients that I may be deficient in as I never really have these offal meats
-
5 day animal based diet experiment
Update!!
While on animal based diet eating only grass fed grass finished beef, beef organs, raw goat milk, pasture-raised eggs, sardines with extra virgin olive oil, fruit, and honey:
Ejaculated twice. Mild POIS reaction like usual, but apart from that, 98% symptom free. No fenugreek and raw garlic were taken, it's hard for me to believe. Sounds like the root of my POIS is grains/lectin/food sensitivity/leaky gut related. Am going to eliminate dairy and eggs next to see if I can get complete 100% remission. Then will focus on reintroducing foods to see which ones I can tolerate.
From the small amount of research I've done, it sounds like leaky gut, but more research is needed. If it is leaky gut, I will go on a specialised diet for the next year in the pursuit of healing my gut. This would also probably justify why I had a B vitamin complex deficiency despite eating a very whole food diet. The fenugreek and raw minced garlic sound like to me potent anti inflammatory's. If I fix the root cause (removing the foods triggering autoimmunity), there won't be any or little inflammation to fix (just like in this instance where the garlic and fenugreek was not necessary). These are just my pet theories, I'm not a doctor lol
-
Did a 2 week (ish) experiment of AIP diet.
Going to be doing a complete elimination protocol for 5 days. Eating only grass-fed grass-finished beef & organs, avocadoes, fruit and honey, sweet potato, and Dr. Gundry-approved vegetables. No grains (including corn), dairy, eggs, processed food, coffee, alcohol, beans, legumes (including soy and cashews), nuts, seeds (including chocolate and coffee), and nightshades for 2 weeks. Then slowly reintroduce Dr. Gundry-approved foods 1 at a time, testing to see if they impact my autoimmunity: dairy, eggs, tahini (seed), pistachios (nut), etc.
The goal is to achieve complete 100% POIS remission through diet alone. Eggs are a food group that I have overlooked in my diet as a potential trigger for autoimmunity. I would also like to incorporate vegetables this time: cauliflower, broccoli, spinach, etc.
https://palmerkippola.com/featured/top-autoimmune-triggers-food/.
https://drgundry.com/dr-gundrys-print-friendly-yes-no-lists/
Did eat probably a more fruit than AIP calls for*
** Begun 12th September 2022**
** Added raw dairy on the 14th September as I've tested dairy before & 90% sure I do not react to it. Helps to add variety. **
** Went back to dairy-free on the 20th for sake of experiment. **
** Accidentally still ingested pepper through these organic sausages
Edit: Completed on the 25th September. 90-95% ish rate of remission without garlic or fenugreek.
-
Latest update & overview on my POIS:
Raw minced garlic & fenugreek dry seed extract seem to be natural anti-inflammatories for my specific condition. They are a band-aid fix, however, which do not address the root cause.
The root cause of my condition, I hypothesize, is a leaky gut, where ingesting inflammatory & sensitive foods pass through the leaky gut creating autoimmunity in the body. The result is severe fatigue, brain fog, anxiety, aches, and physical tensions, etc., whenever I ejaculate (autoimmunity, known as my POIS).
Why do I think it's a leaky gut?
Gluten is the worst food for my condition and made the most impact on my POIS overall when I cut it out. In fact, if I eat a large amount of gluten, the raw garlic and fenugreek are simply overpowered by the chronic inflammation created by gluten. It literally renders the garlic and fenugreek useless. Ingestion of large amounts of gluten causes my POIS to become extremely chronic.
There is a strong link between gluten and autoimmunity, and many experts suggest that a leaky gut is a prerequisite to autoimmunity. When I was younger, I did not have all of these food sensitivities. A leaky gut is known to create weird food sensitivities. When my POIS began, the lifestyle I was living and the food I was eating would make me a perfect candidate for developing a leaky gut. Eating lots of shit food to build muscle (foods high in gluten, grains, preservatives, vegetable oils, etc), eating pretty much all the time (I was/am a hard gainer, so I would need to flog food all day long to put on weight, terrible for my gut health as it probably got zero rest, no opportunities to naturally heal). I also got a back injury during a time period right before my POIS began, which probably created a lot of stress on my body. Stress is another known factor to cause a leaky gut. A leaky gut would also justify why I had a vitamin B deficiency despite eating a very whole food diet, which included plenty of meat, vegetables, mushrooms, fruit, etc.
There are actually 140 autoimmune diseases that weve identified, and the only scientifically agreed-upon cause for autoimmune conditions is gluten sensitivity. Gluten tends to be the central core hub thats always present.
- Peter Osborne, PhD, expert in orthomolecular and functional medicine
Gluten is not the only food that creates inflammation and contributes to my POIS. Other grains, nuts, and seeds also seem to worsen my condition. These are known to be cross-reactive foods (foods the immune system can mistake for gluten), so it isn't surprising given that I am sensitive to gluten, I am also sensitive to other grains, nuts, and seeds. For the most part, garlic and fenugreek are strong enough to reduce inflammation created by these food groups (an interesting fact). Not ideal, but better than nothing, and am eternally grateful. However, to heal a leaky gut, which would theoretically cure my POIS and associated food sensitivities permanently, you need to cut out all inflammatory foods for an extended period of time. For me, this would include grains, nuts, seeds, and any other food sensitivities I have not identified yet. This would give the body a chance to recover, for the immune system to completely relax, and for my gut to properly heal. Bone broth, L-glutamine, zinc, etc are supplements that can help heal a leaky gut.
I've tested multiple times now that when I go on a strict elimination diet, my symptoms are reduced so significantly that I hardly need to take the fenugreek and garlic. I have not yet identified all specific foods/food groups that cause my symptoms. I've just cut out all the known inflammatory agents for autoimmune, which include grains, seeds, nuts, nightshades, eggs, SAD/processed foods, etc.
My goal is to identify ALL trigger foods. Remove them for a long period of time and heal my gut.
Here is an excellent resource that covers leaky gut, autoimmunity, inflammatory agents, elimination protocol, and healing a leaky gut: https://palmerkippola.com/featured/top-autoimmune-triggers-food/
-
Did a 4 day carnivore experiment from 26th - 29th
4 days of eating meat
100% grass fed beef rump, scotch fillet, bone marrow, rendered fat, and ground beef
3 releases on day 4 (29th)
Very subtle reaction still going on.
Very minor aches and tensions throughout the body.
Very slight murkiness.
These symptoms only last for about 40 minutes to 2 hours (ish), depending on frequency (3rd release took a bit longer to recover + I didn't eat another meal afterwards for a few hours.)
Tiring on the body, but nothing you can't shake off after a meal and a 15 minute nap.
Symptoms that did come up were extremely mild nonetheless.
Releases were done over span of the day before 1pm.
Full recovery on all 3 releases. The last release was difficult to determine as it was 4pm when I was assessing and a muggy day, which is quite common for me to feel a bit off in general at that time.
I took a garlic & fenugreek dose (removing all inflammation). There was not really any difference in how I felt before or after the dose, which would reflect a full recovery of the 3rd release.
Felt very grounded and calm throughout the entire process.
Mood was not negatively effected.
I will now reintroduce fruit & honey, retesting in 2-4 days.
-
Did another 4-5 day experiment, this time eating meat + fruit
3 releases all before 1 pm
Few subtle aches and tensions like in meat experiment.
Light murkiness during POIS period.
Not as tired as I was in the meat experiment, probably because I am full of carbohydrates (fruit).
All symptoms have been minor / subtle.
Exactly the same as meat experiment, except maybe less aches. Hard to tell.
Recovery period after each subsequent release seems to increase beginning at 40 mins, 1hr 40, then approx 3hrs. Then after that, absolutely zero POIS. Clear as anything. No fenugreek or garlic necessary ? may still be useful as an insurance policy but the symptoms are completely gone nonetheless.
Potentially faster recovery time than meat experiment. Most likely because I have more energy from carb consumption & didn?t eat many calories when doing the meat experiment, or possibly due to the extra nutrition like vitamin C from oranges that I had.
I would say the meat experiment & meat + fruit experiment results are virtually the same, except fruit provides extra energy and perhaps clarity.
-
4 days of eating meat + fruit + veg (AIP), some notes:
3rd Oct ~ 7th Oct
*Some minor food cross contaminations that possibly effected results, although very unlikely
One interesting symptom I noticed popped up during experiment is that I noticed much more ringing in the ears. Not sure if I experienced that on fruit + meat, dont think I did.
Took about 2hrs 10 mins or so to fully recover from first release.
Overall, AIP does not seem as effective as fruit + meat but is still nonetheless extremely effective overall, and probably more realistic to follow long-term.
Its also not a sunny day, whereas it was a very sunny day on the fruit+ meat experiment. Important note as sunshine in general makes me feel a lot better especially when basking in it.
Full remission after 2-3 hrs of each release. Symptoms felt slightly more intense then fruit + meat experiment, although it was an overcast day which is known to effect my mood generally speaking, whereas the day we tested meat + fruit was very sunny. Also a good chance the sun will boost your mood / improve POIS on top of diet.
Also keep in mind for this experiment: only really ate a medium sized sweet potato in the morning with lots of cooked onion/garlic in beef mince, and sweet potato yesterday morning. There wasn?t a tonne of AIP foods in and around the releases. Would be good to do another test where we flog the system with a lot of veggies for 2-3 days and do multiple releases across that timespan.
Full remission of all 3 releases. All took 2-3hrs each.
Ate a big AIP meal at night (lots of brocolli/cauliflower, carrot, and sweet potato). Woke up feeling pretty murky and slight 5-10% POIS. Felt better after having some bone broth (protein).
Did another test release following morning, to see potency of AIP when having high amounts of AIP foods in and around release (broccoli, cauliflower, carrot, sweet potato, etc) and was same level of effectiveness ✅
Then experimented by taking fenugreek + garlic, and released again to see if POIS come up was reduced. Didnt seem as intense but difficult to know.
-
Been eating mostly animal-based with a few AIP dishes here and there lately.
You technically cannot eat fenugreek on an AIP diet as it is considered a seed, so I wanted to retest and see how important fenugreek is for my POIS.
Did a release last night and a release this morning, just taking raw garlic. The benefits of raw garlic are very clear (took it beforehand, immediately after, and 6 hours post-release & felt an immediate boost in mood, clarity, and energy). Then took 2 fenugreek pills about an hour or so after the last dose of garlic, and felt another immediate boost in clarity, soberness, and energy. It was like a shift going from 10% POIS to zero/complete recovery.
It just blows my mind that these two very distinct and arbitrary plant medicines (fenugreek & garlic) have such an incredible medicinal effect on my POIS.
-
Currently following a diet that's basically split autoimmune protocol (AIP) and animal-based (AB).
Even on this, I sometimes experience spontaneous POIS from either an unknown retrograde release or sexual stimulation. It catches you off guard. I haven't released in days, and then out of nowhere I'm feeling POISY but I don't put it down to POIS because I haven't released in over a few days at least. It's not until I take some fenugreek and garlic that I realize it was POIS. Mind you it's no where near as intense as what my old POIS was, but it's still annoying enough to take a dose of fenugreek and garlic.
It's for these reasons that I am interested in healing/reversing the condition at the root cause. Animal-based is the most effective diet for me.
-
My results of animal-based diet effect on POIS versus auto-immune protocol diet effect on POIS:
Animal-based diet (https://ash-eats.com/animal-based-30-food-list-a-simple-guide-for-animal-based-eating/) (meat & fruit only) ~ 97% natural remission level (when no garlic or fenugreek is taken), with the remaining 3% being murkiness/fogginess for 30 minutes - 3 hours
- Diet consisted of 100% grass fed & finished beef. Also fruit covered in skin (ie., oranges, bananas, papaya, etc).
- Natural inclination towards this diet anyway (convenient and tasty to eat fruit as the main carbohydrate source, I also love a nice simple steak)
- Would be useful to test next animal-based diet foods with ?medium toxicity? foods including avocado and coconut oil, sardines, sweet potatoes, grain-fed beef, etc.
Auto-immune protocol diet (https://www.thepaleomom.com/start-here/the-autoimmune-protocol/) (meat, fruit & veg) ~ 90-95% natural remission level (when no garlic or fenugreek is taken), with the remaining 10-5% being murkiness/fogginess and a slightly more ?off? mood, for a slightly longer duration when compared to animal-based, 2-3 hours. Very mild POIS symptoms can last longer than 3+ hours
- Note: These results were tested under conditions where I ate a moderate amount of AIP vegetables (sweet potato, cauliflower, broccoli, onion, garlic, and carrot) in addition to fruit and meat, so keep that in mind. If you begin eating an enormous amount of AIP vegetables, then this may impact POIS effectiveness. More than likely, the food sensitivities you are experiencing on AIP correspond to very specific vegetables, and thus there are probably other vegetables out there that you don?t eat frequently that you are sensitive to. If you begin eating a higher quantity of AIP vegetables, or you begin introducing new ones, always pay attention to how your POIS responds. With all this being said, I am not my body likes vegetables. There is a strong chance I will undertake a strict animal-based diet anyway.
- Fenugreek & raw minced garlic are an absolute must while following the AIP diet. I?ve tested the importance of both plant medicines multiple times, and they both have incredible medicinal effects on my POIS even while following an AIP diet.
I have also cleaned up & updated my main post to reflect my most up-to-date protocol. I hope all of this information can help fellow/future POISers. ;D
-
animal-based diet effect on POIS
Congrats!
So far, I also think Paul Saladino's recent diet (meat+organ meat+fruit+A2 (raw?)dairy+honey) sounds very good.
I bought the dessicated organ pills mentioned somewhere above and I'm very happy with the energy they give me.
-
animal-based diet effect on POIS
Congrats!
So far, I also think Paul Saladino's recent diet (meat+organ meat+fruit+A2 (raw?)dairy+honey) sounds very good.
I bought the dessicated organ pills mentioned somewhere above and I'm very happy with the energy they give me.
Yep, to me it makes a lot of sense and I honestly just feel like vegetables make my POIS worst (I think thats because I have a leaky gut and hence will be sensitive to a tonne of foods).
Right now I basically follow an animal-based diet with AIP spices/herbs to flavour things up, while going heavy on bone broths and fermented veggies (which is foundational in the GAPS diet). My goal is to reverse all of my symptoms completely and to reverse food sensitivities.
-
Noticed lately that my energy levels following releases are still very inferior to when I abstain (even when using my POIS solution). I haven't experienced extreme fatigue for years now (due to POIS solution) but it is still noticeable.
So I've been experimenting with iodine, about 150mcg and have found it has definitely improved my energy levels in POIS state. Will be adding it to my stack. Still playing around with dosages. I initially took 1000mcg from LifeExtension but found that was way too high. Taking around 100-150mcg seems to do well.
Need to be careful when taking iodine. Lots of good info on the web with the nuances associated with taking iodine. Can cause issues (like anything) if taken irresponsibly.
-
Do you not use iodized salt?
-
Do you not use iodized salt?
No I don't, but it's probably a better idea than supplementing so I will get some next time haha
-
I like those seaweed chips: https://www.google.com/search?q=tao+kae+noi
(yeah, probably unhealthy because of the other ingredients there, but i only eat it from time to time and i'm hoping it has iodine :) I also sometimes eat sushi...)
-
Reintroduced eggs recently and they've honestly been amazing for my POIS recovery. I basically feel like I've been abstaining for weeks (in terms of energy, confidence, etc) after a day or two post release (taken along with raw garlic, fenugreek, and animal-based/gaps diet). Without them, I still feel POIS-free, but do feel a lot more drained (especially in energy).
They are a nutrition powerhouse.
It may also explain why I prefer Natures Own 150 B Forte over other popular active B-complexes. The one that I take has choline/inositol in it. I think the choline may be whats having a significant impact (both in the Natures Own B complex & in eggs).
Edit:
Animal-based diet without eggs is not as effective as a perfect health diet with eggs. However I wonder what would happen if I did an animal-based diet with eggs? The thing in question is whether I am sensitive to veggies/other plant foods that the PHD includes.
-
I have some very interesting results to share.
I did a CBC after 11 days of abstinence. Right after the test was done, in the evening, I released twice. In the morning, I went to do another CBC. (Ordered both tests privately).
For many years I have had low neutrophils.
In the first CBC, my neutrophil count was 3.6. In the second CBC, taken the morning after 2 releases, my neutrophils were 2.1. This change literally happened in under 24 hours. I am currently not sick at all. This sudden and significant change in neutrophils are most likely caused by POIS.
Going to bring this experiment & result up with my functional med doc next time I see him.
Here are the results:
22/12/2022 2:50pm
https://gyazo.com/636415511d8fb29b7dac4104a63b3f48
Neutrophils 3.6
23/12/2022 8am
https://gyazo.com/abda0a1a284d88c8917f2d7d2fcc00ab
Neutrophils 2.1
I also have many blood tests dating back to 2020 with consistently low neutrophils, always around 1.8. I believe that my POIS solution has reduced the time my body is in the POIS state, and therefore gives my body a greater chance to get neutrophil ranges back to normal (hence 3.6 result after 11 days of abstience).
Also, the display of results between both days are different because I went to different pathologists (one I normally go to was closed).
-
Experimenting with "Perfect Health Diet (PHD)". The most successful diet so far for my POIS has been an animal-based diet. There is no doubt in my mind that gluten makes my POIS chronic. What is uncertain though are all the foods in between - how sensitive am I really to rice, potatoes, nuts, etc. PHD emphasizes animal foods, vegetables, nuts, and safe starches like white potatoes and white rice. It does not eat other grains, legumes, vegetable oils, and processed foods. The tough thing when trying to compare diets are all the different possible variables. Did I feel worst on an AIP because it wasn't as sunny and I didn't eat as many animal foods compared to when I follow an animal-based diet, or did I feel worst because I was actually sensitive to the vegetables? Hopefully PHD can potentially answer this. Lots of animal products, starches, nuts, and vegetables.
Link to their website: https://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/
-
Currently getting a lot of testing done at the request of my functional medicine guy. Our goal is to rule out autoimmunity or histamine as the root cause of my POIS. These are the results I've got back for an RA panel:
I recently got this done at the request of the functional medicine guy I am working with. I also ejaculated twice 12 hours before doing the test so I primed my body to be in a POIS state. We got the RA panel done in the attempt to rule out autoimmunity.
ANA: < 160 (ref range: < 160)
RF: < 14 (ref range: < 14)
CCP: < 5 (ref range: < 5)
ESR: 2 mm/h (ref range: < 11)
Uric acid: 0.32 mmol/L (ref range: 0.18-0.47)
CRP: < 0.7 mg/L (ref range: 3.0)
25-hydroxy Vitamin D: 104 nmol/L (ref range: < 50 nmol/L deficiency, < 20 nmol/L severe deficiency)
I am currently waiting on the result of 1,25 Vitamin D (according to my functional medicine guy, a different type of vitamin D that can be useful to potentially diagnose autoimmunity when you take into account the ratio between the two types).
Keep in mind my POIS symptoms are considerably low nowadays. I continue to get body aches (most significant in first hour or two), relatively low energy for a day or two, and slight mood changes (most significant in first hour or two, clears up after a good sleep). My symptoms also seem to be correlated with plant foods I eat so I currently abide by a strict diet to keep this at bay. It would have been interesting to get these tests done when my symptoms were at their peak years ago (chronic fatigue, chronic anxiety, chronic brainfog).
The only marker I've been able to see a direct correlation with my POIS is neutrophils. They drop immediately after experiencing POIS (and must take a bit of time to return to normal). I've tested this now multiple times with different blood tests.
I am also going to get tested for the HLA DR gene, which I believe can indicate vulnerability to autoimmune diseases.
According to my functional medicine guy, gluten can also effect histamine-related conditions. So nowadays I am much more open to the histamine theory in relation to my POIS. I also did a DIY sibo test which involves eating a few tablespoons of psillium husk. The idea is that if you severely gas, bloat, etc you probably have sibo - I did not experience any major symptoms. I do not experience many digestive symptoms in general.
An experiment that I am going to do is go on a low histamine diet for 5 days, taking 2g+ quercetin daily, and ejaculate while taking Tagamet 200mg. Then do the complete opposite - go on a high histamine/normal diet for 5 days, don't take any quercetin or tagamet, and ejaculate. Compare results. My functional medicine guy believes that this will give us a good indicator as to whether or not my condition is histamine related.
-
Been following a PHD for past few weeks. It simply just doesn't feel as good as when I am 100% animal-based, especially in regard to my POIS. My mood also doesn't seem as good compared to when I am eating animal-based. Seems like I need to take the raw garlic & fenugreek more when I follow anything other than an animal-based diet, whereas on animal-based I notice I hardly need to take the fenugreek and garlic - or I take it once around the initial release, whereas on anything other than AB, I seem to need to take the fenugreek & garlic multiple times. So strange. Anyway, gonna follow an animal-based diet again for the time being. Just a quick update/post for me to review in the future.
One thing is for sure: Waking up with mild tinnitus + having to take the garlic & fenugreek multiple times 8 hrs later or so after releasing (mild symptoms return). These only happen when I've done AIP, PHD, & GF diets.
-
An update on what my POIS is like nowdays under the following conditions (personal documentation):
All of these releases occurred while I am following an animal-based diet.
Dosed fenugreek, garlic, eggs, and B complex. Toying around with antihistamine (Tagamet) and quercetin, although honestly have not noticed any difference while taking them.
Released once last night & twice this morning/late morning after about a 7-8 day abstinence streak.
Journal entry:
Woke up feeling tired, like my body is sunk into the bed a lot more intensely. Whereas normally I wake up feeling energized. Still had a relatively deep sleep, its just that I wake up feeling more exhausted than usual. This is normal for my POIS.
After releasing twice in the morning around 7am and 11am, definitely felt it throughout the day. Generally fatigued, unmotivated, body aches, mood disturbances - ranges from light to moderate-light, a bit more anxious, etc. These are my primary symptoms nowadays. These generally seem to last a couple of hours, and today I noticed a significant easing up of them around 5-6pm ish (improvements in mood). Usually I will not release in the mornings so I do not need to experience all of this (when I release at night, I generally wake up feeling refreshed, even tho still tired, and easily go about my day after dosing fenugreek, garlic, eggs, and a meal, etc). All of this is normal for my POIS, and I've experienced all of this many times before.
Tomorrow I will wake up feeling generally refreshed, relatively POIS free (although not as good as when I abstain - I still feel better generally speaking when I abstain for a few days at least). My mind will be relatively calm and stress-free, I will have energy to do a relatively physical job, I will still be able to communicate with others feeling relatively grounded and confident, although I certainly am not at my prime. I could not release everyday (nor would I want to anyway, it feels much better when you give it a few days at least), otherwise my fatigue and weakness would be overwhelming to live in any meaningful way. I also feel more socially confident (thriving), grounded, a lot more energetic - significantly more energy, and creative when I abstain. Music sounds a lot better. Life feels like I am on a microdose of mushrooms when I abstain, thats how I would describe it. Whereas when I release frequently (along with my POIS solution), life becomes harsher, my body and mind are weaker, joint pain, more tired, more insecure and anxious, etc. Compared to what my symptoms used to be - immensely chronic fatigue, anxiety, and brainfog for days on end, it is still a significant improvement from that place. Lots of nuance here in describing symptoms and experiences.
Edit (the next day): I dosed another fenugreek & garlic before bed last night. Which makes it 3x garlic & fenugreek dose in 1 day. Once in the morning, once around 12pm, and once around 7pm. Felt like it the 3rd one (before bed) was necessary. Woke up feeling fine, zero tinitus. Tired and generally hungry. (Woke up at 5:40 as I had to go to work). I took another fenugreek & garlic in the morning, along with 3 eggs, 1 mango, and 1 B complex. Ate 2 bananas and some medjool dates for 10am lunch. Mind was relatively stable all day, calm, etc. Not as confident and grounded as I would be if I abstained completely and reached those thriving levels, but still confident enough to feel relatively secure. Music still sounded good on the way home, but not as good as it does when I abstain lol. Writing this edit at 3pm the next day, and right now feeling relatively good. I still think animal-based (diet I am on now at the time of writing) seems to handle my POIS episodes the best. I would say that by the time this morning rolled around, especially after taking another dose of garlic, fenugreek, eggs, B-complex, breakfast, etc my body had for the most part recovered fully from mental POIS symptoms, where my state of consciousness and experience is what is described below in the frequent releases section.
5:44pm at time of this edit: after a physical day of work (I work in a warehouse), ive eaten a steak, mango, some raw cheese, some raw milk with colostrum, some grapes, and about to whip up some white rice. I haven't eaten too much white rice in the past few days, but ive observed zero negative effect when eating it in the past. will be eating 2+ cups of it tonight, so will write down how im feeling tomorrow as well (day 2 of post-release). so far, i am still feeling good, clear, happy, etc. It's sometimes hard to describe the nuances in how I feel, but im doing my best so I can compare it to how I feel during my POIS episodes when eating more foods outside of an animal-based diet.
6:22pm edit: even at the time of writing this edit, i dont really feel much need to dose another fenugreek & garlic. I will tomrorow morning obviously, but i would be willing to bet that if i was on a diet that eats more plant foods (ie. phd, vegetables, etc) i would feel like i need to redose up as light POIS symptoms have resurfaced. it wouldnt hurt to redose now, but its more the fact that plant foods in general seem more inflammatory for my condition.
2day post release (25th 1:14pm): woke up with slight very tiny amount of tinnitus (probably not significant enough to even mention, but i will mention as a tiny tiny tiny amount was there, probably to be expected), took garlic & fenugreek as usual along with eggs, B complex etc. Felt good today, also had another meal of rice in the morning and felt good all day. Did not notice any negative effects from eating white rice. Mood has been good all day.
2day post release (25th 6:55pm): do kind of feel like another dose of fenugreek & garlic would be useful. Ate lots of white rice today in addition to animal-based
2day post release (25th 7:27pm): took fenugreek & garlic and feel a lot better. Felt POIS residue arising all afternoon- subtle but noticeable. Feeling a lot better. Also had a big bowel of rice with banana and milk in the morning for breakfast. White rice in morning is most likely what set it off (apart from POIS itself obvz)
I'm going to describe the difference between how I feel when I abstain & how I feel when I release frequently, while eating an animal-based diet:
Abstinence (after 1+ day, peaks around 7-14 days. red meat & eggs send me here):
- Very high levels of physical energy
- Endless passion for the world
- Music sounds incredible
- Experience of life and emotions feel are lot deeper and vivid, as if I am on a microdose of psychedelic mushrooms
- Very grounded
- Naturally more confident and calm
- Lots of energy which makes it easier to talk endlessly
- Hot feet
- Sometimes all the energy builds up into stress (failure to transmute sexual energy)
- Deeper levels of love
- Life feels easier, more effortless
- Fluctuations in mood still, but baseline lows are higher than what they would be when releasing frequently. And ofc, baseline highs are way higher than what they would be when releasing frequently.
- Thriving levels of self-confidence. To rank it out of 10: 8.5+ (a strong base to continue develop self-confidence through cold approach)
- Thriving in general & overall
- Sometimes too intense, which is why transmutation practices are necessary. The need to burn off excess energy is real.
POIS (2 hrs - 24 hrs, as long as red meat & eggs are consumed):
- Low to moderate levels of physical energy (lowest in first days post-release)
- Calm but tired, non-stressed
- Mentally ambitious, but not as much energy or drive to go after it
- Music sounds good, but certainly not incredible
- Life in general feels a lot more dull, and emotions are relatively more numb (not completely numb, but certainly more numb when compared to abstaining)
- Still grounded, but not as grounded when abstaining
- Life feels harsher, more difficult
- Still relatively social, witty, etc. Not thriving levels of self-confidence that I experience when abstaining tho. To rank it out of 10: 7. Today for example, still social/confident/grounded enough for small talk with strangers while doing my grocery shopping.'
- Easily fall asleep at night
- Joints and legs feel significantly weaker
- Back is generally more inflamed during this period
Immediately post-release (0-6 hrs):
- Mood disturbances i.e., generally more anxious, but nothing crazy
- Minor body aches all over in random places
- Fatigued, basically feel like not doing anything physical
- Still grounded, but generally less so than what is described in the frequent releases section
- Moderate anhedonia
EDIT: RED MEAT & EGGS basically recover me back into the "thriving"/"abstinent" state very quickly, something I did not realize at the time of recording all of these symptoms.
-
You could consider exploring neutrophil attracting molecules if they are available at labs near you.
-
Just recently found this supplement: https://au.iherb.com/pr/allimax-100-allicin-powder-capsules-180-mg-30-vegetarian-capsules/3418
Apparently its a higher-quality supplement for garlic/allicin. My experiments in the past showed me that garlic oil supplements were definitely inferior to taking raw garlic. Would be interesting to see how this would hold up - would make it incredibly convenient for nights out, etc. Probs would reserve it for situations that call for convenience, as it would be a lot more expensive than buying actual garlic.
-
Just completed a histamine experiment at the request of my functional medicine guy.
For 3 days:
2g Quercetin/day
Stay off all high histamine foods i.e. fermented veggies, kefir, aged meats, etc.
On day of release, take tagamet 200mg.
Released twice 17/02/23. Took tagament about a 2 hours before releases.
Essentially been following a gluten-free JERF diet including gluten-free oats.
Too early to tell at the time of writing this. My immediate post-o symptoms seemed very mild. I've always associated plant foods with post-o symptom intensity, but perhaps it is histamine related. I have taken the garlic & fenugreek early this morning (like I do daily now), so that could be having a positive effect, but that was approx 10.5 hours ago after a super active day at work. Also I had been abstaining for a few weeks, hence why I chose to release twice just to double check triggering of symptoms.
Again, probably still too early to draw conclusions + so many variables at play with POIS that can effect intensity including nutrition, arousal level, garlic & fenugreek, sunlight/vit d levels, days since last release, etc - so would ideally repeat experiment a few times.
Next day edit: mental symptoms definitely seem a bit more lessened, although I do admit it’s difficult to tell. Physical symptoms definitely seem about the same - physically drained. Note to self - this was the day i visited a friends pool & was clearly mentally drained / experiencing mental symptoms of social anhedonia. Then next day I remembered about power of eggs & meat, released once & noticed significant improvement straight away.
Edit 27/2/22: just released, after having milk kefir, red meat (most likely aged), zero Quercetin (apart from natural form from fruits consumed throughout the day) or Tagamet ingested (none consumed over past week). I also ate red meat & eggs 1-2 hrs before release which I believe carry powerful synergistic nutrients that directly improve POIS.
Interestingly, little to no body aches & tensions this time. Significantly less, despite having a higher histamine load. I intuit it is due to the nutrients from the red meat & eggs. I also don’t feel as physically drained, altho ofc I def feel the effects from releasing / the immediate POIS symptoms - feeling a bit off, body feels tense esp. face, moderate mood disturbances. Mental symptoms maybe feel a bit worst, but honestly it’s all too hard to tell. It wasn't a sunny day today & I worked in a warehouse all day, which is certainly going to effect my overall mood for the day compared to a bright sunny day. The only significant difference I feel is that my body aches & tensions do not feel as intense with this release. With that being said, the last time I did release was many days ago now - I think 4-5 days ago, so not sure if that would have an effect on the aches.
Overall, it is incredibly difficult to tell if there is any differences in symptoms when on the low histamine experiment vs high histamine experiment. Body aches & tensions didnt feel as intense on the high histamine experiment (still experiencing some), most likely because I ingested the red meat & eggs 1-2 hrs before releasing, priming the body with nutrients. Mood & energy symptoms feel about the same (mood disturbances, body is clearly going through an inflammatory event, tired/drained - maybe not as severe on the high histamine exp. due to red meat & eggs). Ive now tested quercetin & tagamet a few times, particularly the quercetin, and i havent really seen any improvements in symptoms. I also hven't really seen any tangible correlation in symptoms with histamine foods. Ironically, red meat (which is supposed to be aged) improves my symptoms significantly (i believe due to its synergistic nutrients along with eggs). Also after the histamine experiment was done, I was clearly experiencing social anhedonia the next day (even while maintaining low histamine for 1 extra day as part of experiment). Red meat & eggs have a profound positive improvement on these symptoms, where I do not experience social anhedonia when I red meat & eggs. Red meat technically should be high in histamine because it’s aged. It’s unlikely my issue is histamine related. I’ve also never noticed any differences in how I feel after eating high histamine meals, if anything, I tend to feel better ie. red meat or kefir.
Will update with how I'm feeling the next day.
-
I believe I have made a significant breakthrough in my POIS recovery.
COMBINING RED MEAT & EGGS
Only works if on an animal-based or perfect health diet. Animal-based is better. Red meat & eggs effectiveness stops working when eating lots of plant foods (normal diet or even gluten free whole grains, legumes, etc)
19/02/23 Food Diary:
Breaky:
- big bowel of wholegrain oats with raw milk (cold pressed raw milk)
- 3 eggs
- approx 200g of beef mince, carrots, and onions sauted with extra virgin olive oil, garlic powder, onion powder, and parsley flakes
- 1 cup of home-made coffee with honey & cold pressed raw milk
Lunch snack:
- 2 bananas
- handful of walnuts
Late lunch coffee:
- 1 cafe flat white on reg full cream milk
Early evening snack:
- 2 plums
Dinner:
- another decent serving size of beef mince dish made this morning
- 2 eggs
- fruit smoothie with 2 bananas, handful of mixed fruit (strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, & raspberries), and small handful of walnuts
I believe that red meat & eggs are a potent combination for restoring my body back to its non-POIS state and into the thriving state that would normally only be achieved through abstience (3-9+ days). I have recorded what I have eaten today incase other foods are responsible for a recognizable shift in recovery.
Yesterday I released once at night-time, and day before released twice at night-time for histamine experiment. Today I was noticably depleted and abiding in what I call a depleted POIS state. My experience comprises of the symptoms described in "frequent releases" part of https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg46195#msg46195. Today in the late afternoon/early evening, I experienced a distinct shift into a state that I only seemingly experience after 3-6+ days of abstience, experience is described in "abstience" part of https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg46195#msg46195. I believe the potent combination of eggs & red meat is responsible.
When I added eggs back into my diet after a long exclusion, I noticed an enormous improvement in energy levels & POIS recovery - I was still eating red meat at the time & that wasnt enough for my energy levels. I noticed the exact same phenomena happen with red meat. I excluded red meat (and meat in general really) for a few weeks, mostly due to a histamine experiment (many meats are aged) I was undertaking, and when I reintroduced it, I noticed another significant improvement in energy levels and libido. Just eating eggs on their own don't seem as potent when eating them with red meat, and the same can be said for eating red meat on its own - its a lot better when combining it with eggs.
So, I believe that many who experience improvement in their POIS from eggs, should consider combining it with red meat. I believe the nutrients are significantly synergistic, and play a key role in my POIS recovery. I believe I have now nailed my POIS recovery down to 1 day, where my symptoms on day 1 are still relatively low, described in "frequent releases" part of that post linked earlier.
The big picture lesson here is how important nutrition is for POIS recovery. Ultimately food is medicine. I no longer prescribe to any diet ideology or restrictions apart from gluten-free. Gluten/wheat-free is an absolute must for my POIS. Apart from that, I follow the principle of "just eat real food (JERF)" focusing on quality, variety, and intuitive eating. Red meat & eggs seem to be especially effective for my POIS recovery. Also, there would be many nutrients within the red meat and eggs that rely on other nutrients to work, another reason why JERF / an incredibly nutritious diet is important for POIS recovery.
Edit 27/2/22: another test done eating red meat & eggs. I actually think it also has a positive effect on the immediate POIS symptoms in that 1-2 hour period. Strangely, I am not experiencing as many body aches & tensions (and certainly no where near to the same degree) as I normally do. I ate a decent serving of red meat & 1 egg an hour or two ago (along with some fruit & white rice). I also had 1/3-1/2 cup of milk kefir, and the red meat was ground beef, which is most likely aged here in Australia. In other words, I’ve also had a significant amount of histamine foods and havent really noticed any difference when compared to the low histamine experiment symptoms, except for maybe intensity of body aches (still experiencing some aches/tensions). Will report back to see if that has effected anything.
After approx 2 hours, I feel basically normal with a few aches & moderate tiredness. Just realized something, as I am watching a video on how the geography of Mexico effects population - my dopamine / anhedonia, which would normally follow ejaculation, no longer exist! Red meat & eggs continue to fix this issue. Normally when I released in the past, I could feel my dopamine receptors getting all screwed up, having little ability to find pleasure in anything for at least a moderate period of time.
According to this experience - the power of red meat & eggs, you probably could release in the mornings & be fine within a couple of hours. Altho, you will still most likely be very tired (as i am now) & its better to sleep it off. I honestly feel incredible right now for releasing around 2 hrs ago. I also ate a smoothie with included a handful of walnuts, mixed berries (strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries), and banana, which may be helping. But in a nutshell: mental recovery time is now for the most part - 2 hours, following a gluten-free wholefoods diet (making sure to fill up), and following rest of protocol.
-
Did you ever do a gene test? (23andme, Myheritage etc, wherever you get a .txt file with snps that you can run through Promethease)
I'd be curious if you have the same partial biotinidase deficiency (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3694.msg42200#msg42200) as me.
Foods high in biotine (https://www.google.com/search?&q=biotin+food+sources)
-
Did you ever do a gene test? (23andme, Myheritage etc, wherever you get a .txt file with snps that you can run through Promethease)
I'd be curious if you have the same partial biotinidase deficiency (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3694.msg42200#msg42200) as me.
Foods high in biotine (https://www.google.com/search?&q=biotin+food+sources)
Nah not yet, I will do something like that a bit further down the track when I have the money. Right now I am seeing my functional medicine guy about once every month or so (slow progress), and we're now checking to see if my POIS is viral related. So he has me on reishi, schisandra, lysine, and NAC daily. The genes that I have tested so far are: MTHR (1 mutation from memory), and another one that makes me a bit more vulnerable to mould.
-
Did you ever do a gene test? (23andme, Myheritage etc, wherever you get a .txt file with snps that you can run through Promethease)
I'd be curious if you have the same partial biotinidase deficiency (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3694.msg42200#msg42200) as me.
Foods high in biotine (https://www.google.com/search?&q=biotin+food+sources)
Nah not yet, I will do something like that a bit further down the track when I have the money. Right now I am seeing my functional medicine guy about once every month or so (slow progress), and we're now checking to see if my POIS is viral related. So he has me on reishi, schisandra, lysine, and NAC daily. The genes that I have tested so far are: MTHR (1 mutation from memory), and another one that makes me a bit more vulnerable to mould.
I am not sure about lysine, but the others should be plenty protective for the liver as well. So even if they work, it won’t necessarily prove a viral origin. It is rather sad that I got my second covid infection when I was attempting to test schisandra and I have never got around to test it again since then.
-
Nah not yet, I will do something like that a bit further down the track when I have the money. Right now I am seeing my functional medicine guy about once every month or so (slow progress), and we're now checking to see if my POIS is viral related. So he has me on reishi, schisandra, lysine, and NAC daily. The genes that I have tested so far are: MTHR (1 mutation from memory), and another one that makes me a bit more vulnerable to mould.
FYI: It's only 39 EUR (USD?) right now at MyHeritage and I think they give you the right snp .txt file that you'd need..
-
Did you ever do a gene test? (23andme, Myheritage etc, wherever you get a .txt file with snps that you can run through Promethease)
I'd be curious if you have the same partial biotinidase deficiency (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3694.msg42200#msg42200) as me.
Foods high in biotine (https://www.google.com/search?&q=biotin+food+sources)
Nah not yet, I will do something like that a bit further down the track when I have the money. Right now I am seeing my functional medicine guy about once every month or so (slow progress), and we're now checking to see if my POIS is viral related. So he has me on reishi, schisandra, lysine, and NAC daily. The genes that I have tested so far are: MTHR (1 mutation from memory), and another one that makes me a bit more vulnerable to mould.
I am not sure about lysine, but the others should be plenty protective for the liver as well. So even if they work, it won’t necessarily prove a viral origin. It is rather sad that I got my second covid infection when I was attempting to test schisandra and I have never got around to test it again since then.
Not sure exactly which one of the 4, but they definitely delayed POIS onset symptoms. Usually, my symptoms are immediate. Taking those 4 (NAC, schisandra, reishi, & lysine) my POIS was a lot more delayed by an hour or so. I have a feeling it was the NAC.
The NAC also made me feel pretty terrible in general (at times) taking 1.8g+ daily, so I have since paused - like more anxious & anhedonia, very similar to POIS ironically. My functional med guy advices that when taking NAC make sure no holes are blocked (sweating well, pooping, & hydrated, etc). My diet also hasn't been amazing, and NAC is known to increase bodily detox, so it would make sense as to why I was feeling pretty horrible (not eating enough nutrition to support the process + not necessarily sweating, sometimes not hydrated, etc).
I am continuing to take the reishi, schisandra, & lysine daily, seeing where it leads. I've also asked to take a standard urine analysis. Doubt anything will come of it but worth a shot anyway.
POIS is basically no longer an issue for me - it doesn't hold me back at all anymore. My symptoms are quite mild & they clear up relatively quickly over the course of 2 hours & a good nights sleep provided I follow my protocol. My physical energy levels still take quite a big hit though, but this clears up after a day or so, & I can still push myself through normal activities. Red meat & eggs continue to prove themselves as superfoods for POIS recovery. My only motivation in seeing this functional medicine guy is to completely heal the absolute root cause, which I am not even sure is possible.
Has anyone actually completely eliminated ALL symptoms permanently?
It seems most people are only able to experience a reduction in symptoms, which is still amazing, because if you experience a big enough reduction, the idea of POIS being an issue becomes a thing of the past, even though one technically still has it - this is basically the boat I am in.
I am even considering canning my appointments with my functional med guy & just accepting the level my POIS is at - being content with how much it has significantly improved.
-
Read about NAC and CBS gene. This gene is often responsible for bad response to NAC.
-
I have proven time & time again red meat & eggs make me feel amazing - especially during my POIS recovery period.
The CVD risk of eating red meat frequently over a long-term period is a cause for concern, so I will opt for leaner cuts & see if I still feel as good as I do -- I believe I am feeling good from the nutrients found in the actual meat rather than fat, but we will see.
My stools are a lot better on a lower-fat diet as well - I seem to have some kind of issue with fatty stools / absorbing fats. Taking schisandra does seem to help, but I don't think it has actually fixed the root of the issue.
-
For a long time I assumed my condition was autoimmune related given that I feel such an enormous improvement by being gluten-free. It is hands down the most important ingredient in my POIS solution. If I am not gluten-free, my POIS solution does not work at all! I will experience full blown POIS symptoms (last time I checked).
But from speaking with a functional medicine herbalist who works with people with all kinds of strange & weird illnesses, he believes that it's actually not that simple. Gluten & the subsequent leaky gut can effect many conditions including histamine & viral -- two common POIS hypothesis. So just because one has a gluten sensitivity in regards to POIS does not definitively mean it's autoimmune related.
The lesson is not to assume stuff. At the end of the day, we are all just guessing in the dark. Which is a lot better than nothing. The name of the game here is definitely self-experimentation. All POISERS should experiment with EVERYTHING, and do not assume ANYTHING is safe, but equally do not self diagnose root causes. It's impossible to know unless you have a strong medical background, knowledge, experience, etc. The wrong self-diagnoses can send you down a road of neuroticism over a root cause you don't actually have.
Just some thoughts I wanted to add. Hope everyone has been well. Forever grateful for this community & hope all of you find solutions to your POIS.
-
I've noticed lately that I have been experiencing more anhedonia than usual.
I have just recently begun including corn. I am also having more figments of soy than usual. Will dial this back and play around with gluten, soy, & corn free wholefoods diet seeing as these are known inflammatory agents.
I also have a history of feeling bad after eating thai food (which would use corn & soy quite often). I doubt its the soy - the amount of soy I eat would be negligible. It's more likely the corn that is eliciting a response.
-
Diarrhoea and appetite suppression are two additional symptoms of my POIS. Over the past year, I have noticed my body's inability to absorb fats it seems. Well, recently have started doing semen retention again and it seems like both of these symptoms have basically disappeared.
I think because, in the past, I would only abide in a 3-day POIS state every so often because of how bad my symptoms were. Diarrhoea during this short time period wasn't really recognised as a symptom given how mild it is compared to debilitating anxiety, brain fog, fatigue, etc. Because I've improved all of these symptoms so substantially through my POIS solution, and abide in that light POIS state much more often, I am only now realising that diarrhoea and appetite suppression are additional symptoms.
So currently my POIS solution significantly improves energy and psychology symptoms, especially with the addition of red meat and eggs. However, I can still feel like my body is operating at a far less than optimal level. My energy still sucks compared to when I abstain, my mood is generally more inconsistent, foggier in general, more sensitive to foods, dopamine is more screwed up, etc. Keep in mind, my symptoms at their worst were horrendous. This is nothing compared to the severe anxiety, brain fog, fatigue, etc I used to experience before discovering my solution.
So currently, it isn't a big deal if I release frequently, but it's still not optimal by any means. Long-term I do not believe it would be very good for my health either. Thats why on top of my POIS solution, I have recently decided to opt for a lifestyle of semen retention, non-ejaculatory sex & orgasms, transmutation practices, etc - it simply allows me to perform at my best overall and experience life at deeper levels.
-
Coffee / green tea is great on post o days.
Want to try niacin + green tea / coffee combo to see if it helps improve any symptoms, particularly energy levels in the days following release. A non urgent experiment I will do sometime in the future, putting here to remind myself.
-
Often times in the POIS community and the semen retention community people choose sides.
I have gotten to a point now where I believe both worlds are useful. When I say worlds, I am talking about worldviews and tools.
POIS is obviously physiological in nature. It's useful to see it as a medical condition so you can try lots of different things to see what helps it i.e., diet, supplements, etc. When people become ideological about semen retention, they are unable to seek out possible medical solutions and improvements. This is obviously bad.
In my experience, I've only been able to "fix" the most severe symptoms of my POIS - which I am super grateful for. This seems to be a common thing around people who have luck in improving their symptoms here. This is still amazing, as it allows you to not sink so low when you ejaculate. I can still function as a normal human being, I just won't be operating at an "optimal" level - there are obviously physiological reasons that we don't presently know causing this.
It's only when I do semen retention do I realize the self and deep experience of life that I am missing out on when ejaculating frequently. My energy levels, clarity and state of mind, groundedness, social charisma, ability to tackle multiple goals at once, and general health improve substantially. It really is the difference between living a mediocre life and a life constantly embodying your deepest highest self.
The idea of semen retention can be depressing because we've learnt that orgasm = ejaculating. But these are actually two distinct events, and there is something called a "non-ejaculatory orgasm" one can learn. They're definitely different from a regular ejaculatory orgasm, but apparently, provide incredibly rich and pleasurable orgasmic experiences without triggering ejaculation. Ejaculation is what seems to cause most people's symptoms around here.
So at the moment with the way my life is going, I am going to utilize both worlds - at least that's what I am feeling at the moment. If I ejaculate it's not too much of a big deal like it was many years ago before discovering my POIS solution, but I will certainly embrace the semen retention lifestyle (which includes learning how to experience non-ejaculatory orgasms, energy transmutation practices, non-ejaculatory sex, etc.) To me, it seems that the paradigms of sexual energy cultivation ring true in my experience, giving birth to a much deeper level of consciousness that is psychedelic and dream-like. The physiology in one's body directly influences the state of consciousness and health one abides in - ejaculation is obviously changing our physiology in some kind of negative way (which is what POIS is.)
In the future when I am making more money, I plan on doing a rigorous and holistic investigation into my own health leaving no stone unturned.
I also personally believe that AI is probably the best shot the POIS community have at making long strides in medical understanding in a relatively short period of time.
-
Friendly reminder that eggs AND ground beef are the GOATS during my POIS recovery. When I don't have them, I experience a lot of more social apathy and general mood swings.
Also recently started taking nicotinamide 500mg & matcha green tea to re-experiment. Feel like my energy levels have improved a lot, I believe due to the nicotinamide.
-
Animal-based diet vs gluten-free micronutrient rich diet (‘perfect health diet’)
Animal-based is definitely ideal. Gluten-free micronutrient rich diet (‘perfect health diet’) is probably more realistic & easier to sustain.
- tested time & time again, animal-based works more effectively then any other diet for reducing my POIS symptoms.
Seems like plant foods trigger some kind of immunological response, especially grains, legumes, peanuts, vegetables, etc. Have found this to be true anytime I do a gluten-free wholefoods diet (gluten-free wholegrains), AIP &/or perfect health diet (vegetables), etc - always experience more ringing in the ears, which to me is a sign of inflammation.
BEST to WORST diets in ascending order for my POIS:
1. Animal-Based (optimal - emphasises nutrient rich animal-based foods while cutting out inflammatory foods. Very mild POIS symptoms)
2. Perfect Health Diet (step up from 3, as cuts out ALL grains, legumes, etc - which are def inflammatory for my POIS. Mild-moderate POIS symptoms)
3. Gluten-Free Wholefoods (same as #5, but extra nutrition emphasising wholefoods is obz better. Moderate POIS symptoms)
4. Gluten-Free (big step up from gluten, but still eating foods triggering inflammation - most likely veggies, gluten-free grains, etc. Moderate POIS symptoms)
5. Normal diet that includes gluten (by far the most inflammatory/chaotic/drives my POIS symptoms to their MAX)
From now on, I will switch between the two when needed (animal based & gluten-free micronutrient rich diet (‘perfect health diet’))
Question for when I redo animal-based:
Do I experience any social apathy in days 2,3 etc post-release? (Literally go out & test, talk to people, etc)
Is mood more consistent on animal-based diet on days 2,3,4 etc post-release? Do you experience general anhedonia at all?
I've noticed I am experiencing more social apathy/anhedonia on gluten-free diet after POIS episodes, especially on days 2,3,4 etc post-release. From memory, I do not believe I experienced this when doing animal-based (which seemed to handle my episodes the best out of all diets I've tried).
Interesting thing I've noticed is that I tend to experience anhedonia, low mood, etc on days 2,3.... post-release etc. On the first day post release, sometimes my mood can actually be very positive and almost "high", then it drops on the 2nd, 3rd day etc. It's easy to use that 1st day as a 'success!' for POIS solution, when in fact the real test is how I feel on average & on the preceding days 2,3,4,5, etc.
Reference experience: when I went back home to the mountains, out for coffee with rents, socially apathetic + went to see my mate at the lake + sauna, feeling socially anxious.
My POIS symptoms in general on a "gluten free wholefoods diet" where I ate wholegrain brown rice, peanut butter, veggies, in addition to meat, yoghurt, fruit, etc seem to trigger some pretty nasty anhedonia, social apathy, and mood disturbances (find myself being anxious especially towards the end of the day, mood a bit up and down in general). Also immediately after releases, my symptoms were rather significant & unpleasant - anxious, brainfog, body aches - which has always been normal to experience stronger symptoms in immediate 2 hour window, but these seemed more severe than usual.
Edit 23/06 answers to the above questions while I've been back on animal-based:
Do I experience any social apathy in days 2,3 etc post-release? (Literally go out & test, talk to people, etc)
Social apathy and mood issues in general are essentially non-existent on days 2,3,4 etc. Even by the end of day 1, I am symptomless. (Eaten 4 eggs & red meat today, along with dosing fenugreek & garlic twice, and had some white rice earlier, altho I believe I would do even better without the white rice). The social apathy I have been experiencing in the past is a clear symptom of POIS, which has been worsened by plant foods.
Is mood more consistent on animal-based diet on days 2,3,4 etc post-release? Do you experience general anhedonia at all? Absolutely it is more consistent, on all days, including 1,2,3, and 4. Definitely do not experience the degree of anhedonia on a gluten-free wholefoods diet. Sometimes mood can be a bit blander, but overall it animal-based does a far better job at handling POIS and reducing its symptoms.
To remind myself of the experiences I am talking about, which served in contrasting symptoms:
- (gluten free wholefoods - severe symptoms / social apathy) when I went home to the mountains, went out for coffee with the rents, sitting in cafe feeling very socially apathetic.
- (mostly animal-based - handled it way better) when I went back to the city, helped my sis by talking thru some of her relationship difficulties, feeling very grounded + present, zero apathy. Also the day I am responding to these questions, 1 day post release, feeling very sharp, clear-minded, zero aparthy, talked to my roomie, etc.
The fact that I am sensitive to gluten should be no surprise I am also sensitive to other plant foods, and therefore do better on an animal-based diet.
-
Been following a PHD for past few weeks. It simply just doesn't feel as good as when I am 100% animal-based, especially in regard to my POIS. My mood also doesn't seem as good compared to when I am eating animal-based. Seems like I need to take the raw garlic & fenugreek more when I follow anything other than an animal-based diet, whereas on animal-based I notice I hardly need to take the fenugreek and garlic - or I take it once around the initial release, whereas on anything other than AB, I seem to need to take the fenugreek & garlic multiple times. So strange. Anyway, gonna follow an animal-based diet again for the time being. Just a quick update/post for me to review in the future.
One thing is for sure: Waking up with mild tinnitus + having to take the garlic & fenugreek multiple times 8 hrs later or so after releasing (mild symptoms return). These only happen when I've done AIP, PHD, & GF diets.
This is still true today.
Animal-based is the best diet for my POIS (meat/organs, fruit, dairy, eggs).
Perfect health diet (PHD) is probably more sustainable long-term (emphasis on meat/eggs, fruit, starchy veg like potatoes, white rice, & veg to taste - strictly no grains, legumes, peanuts or vegetable oils).
Anything less than PHD no longer cuts it. Gluten-free whole grain is too liberal with plant foods which significantly worsen POIS - obviously it is better then eating gluten.
More plant foods I eat, worst my POIS symptoms. I am still finding what the right balance is for both diets. I noticed in the past that garlic & fenugreek were not as necessary on animal-based diet, but for anything else (PHD, AIP, etc) it was a must.
My current protocol is as follows:
- animal-based diet, if too difficult (as in not enough variety/flavour) then perfect health diet
- raw garlic before & after release, twice a day during POIS recovery days, & daily on normal days
- fenugreek 2g before & after release, twice a day during POIS recovery days, & daily on normal days
- at least 200-300g red meat & 2-3 eggs daily, especially during POIS recovery period
- nature’s own 150 B forte complex, taken on day of release, every 2nd ish normal day (very intuitive - whenever I feel like I need it)
Matcha green tea & 500mg nicotinamide before & after release seem interesting, but I am not sure of the extent to which they help.
May also be wise to have higher doses of fenugreek & garlic on release days given that daily routine may create a tolerance.
Vortex of my POIS Solution
1. Elimination of plant foods triggering immune response (gluten, grains, vegetables, etc)
2. Consumption of nutrient density (red meat, eggs, animal foods, etc)
3. Medicinal herbs (raw garlic & fenugreek)
-
Hello,
thank you for this wonderful post,it feels like i myself was posting my life...
anyways i got to a point to cooking 2 small of garlic in water for 3 mins just to diminish the stomach ache effect,
but just remembered that its not helping me a lot as it used to could it be because of that although i read that its the same.
also fenugreek i soak the seeds in water for a couple of days while am sexually active, but also consume around 3 teaspoons i think i am overdoing it.
because we are trying to have a baby and to be honest i cant have sex more than 2 times without taking a 2-3day break so,
i feel depressed agitated and no appetite for errection,
last time we were trying i took a kind of Viagra just to stimulate the sexual activity but i got beaten up when we did it daily :(
any suggestions.
i already started vitamin B complex and D,going to add Aleve as an antihistamine.
-
Hello,
thank you for this wonderful post,it feels like i myself was posting my life...
anyways i got to a point to cooking 2 small of garlic in water for 3 mins just to diminish the stomach ache effect,
but just remembered that its not helping me a lot as it used to could it be because of that although i read that its the same.
also fenugreek i soak the seeds in water for a couple of days while am sexually active, but also consume around 3 teaspoons i think i am overdoing it.
because we are trying to have a baby and to be honest i cant have sex more than 2 times without taking a 2-3day break so,
i feel depressed agitated and no appetite for errection,
last time we were trying i took a kind of Viagra just to stimulate the sexual activity but i got beaten up when we did it daily :(
any suggestions.
i already started vitamin B complex and D,going to add Aleve as an antihistamine.
Hi ram,
It’s possible soaking the garlic in water could affect its medicinal effects although I’m not sure. I would probably try mincing it, let it sit for 5-10 mins, then coat it in a generous amount of honey and swallow it with full cream milk. For me that’s enough to reduce the sting of it that is accompanied when swallowing with just water or on its own without honey. Never tried that method of using fenugreek, all I know is that the fenugreek in pill form by their own work for me, maybe it’s worth trying pill form just to double check.
What’s your diet like? I have found that eating grains especially, and plant foods in general, worsen my POIS significantly. Following an animal-based diet by Paul Saladino works best for me, but if that’s too strict then a Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet is second best. It’s worth experimenting with as little plant foods as possible just to see how they affect you. Don’t overlook this.
B complex should help you a lot. I found that trying a few different ones was useful, as they all contain different amounts & types of B vitamins such that they all fit different people differently.
These are just my suggestions based off what works for me. Good luck
-
Currently following animal-based/perfect health diet.
Dosing raw garlic & fenugreek at least twice a day on recovery POIS days is def still optimal. Maybe even 3x a day might be useful.
150 B Forte complex is not always necessary to take all the time. More seems like something to top up your B vitamins in general which seem to be drained a lot more hardcore through POIS. Released yesterday & haven't taken the B complex yet (about 20 hours later) & feeling good still! Taking it now to see what effect it has.
Edit:
Taking the B complex definitely sharpened up my senses. Still works very well for me, makes me feel good. Completely boosted me mentally, imo.
Took B complex again the following day & felt good.
Raw garlic
Fenugreek
150 B Ultra Forte B Complex Nature’s Own
All continue to serve me well.
I have also consistently noticed feeling shitty after having tamari or sesame oil. Either both of them or one of them I intuition is making me feel shitty. Histamine?
Also, while following mostly an animal based diet with a few plant foods (PHD) including morning coffee, tomato sauce, beetroot, etc my symptoms on days 2,3,4 etc are SIGNIFICANTLY better.
Animal-based / perfect health diet are far more effective for my POIS than gluten-free whole foods where I am eating whole grains and veggies in addition to red meat and eggs. I believe that animal based is the most optimal, and that the perfect health diet is 2nd optimal, but even then if I were to eat a large amount of plant foods on PHD, then I would be extremely skeptical and cautious in regards to how much that will worsen my POIS symptoms ie, a bowel of cruciferius veggies, rocket, etc. All in all tho, animal-based / perfect health diet have definitely performed better on those 2,3,4th days post release.
I think ultimately, the answer is animal-based tho. It provides the most steady relief of pretty much ALL POIS symptoms - I hypothesis & partially tested in the past, it is not as up & down compared to PHD, which is still comparatively a beast over gluten-free whole foods diet.
-
Even while following animal-based (red meat, eggs, fruit, dairy), with a few herbs & spices in lamb meat, raw garlic & fenugreek continue to be necessary and strong medicinal plants. Taking 3x a day on 'recovery' days (generally the next 2-3 days after release) or basically whenever I feel like I need it. Each dose lasts about 6 hours. Morning, noon, & evening doses. They basically clear up what I call 'light POIS residue'. They also act as a 'security' thing to make sure I am not affected by this light POIS residue or 'spontaneous' POIS residue, which is also why I take it daily in the mornings.
The light POIS residue can take the effect of a mild social apathy & a light brainfog.
-
Here's an update on my POIS solution through a video format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A
Be sure to like & subscribe!
I will be posting more videos about POIS soon, especially on the topics of semen retention ideology vs POIS, my 6-year journey battling POIS, & mindset.
The video format should help to spread awareness of POIS.
-
Nice yob Warrior..
-
Here's an update on my POIS solution through a video format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A)
Be sure to like & subscribe!
I will be posting more videos about POIS soon, especially on the topics of semen retention ideology vs POIS, my 6-year journey battling POIS, & mindset.
The video format should help to spread awareness of POIS.
Excellent video, Warrior ! Thanks for having taken the time to create it.
I have added the link to it on the "What's POIS" board, where other POIS videos are linked too :) See at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4393.0 .
-
Here's an update on my POIS solution through a video format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A
I really recognized myself in this video, thank you for making this syndrome known on Youtube and for proposing a solution.
By the way, have you tried replacing crushed garlic with alilicin capsules? Or are there other active ingredients in garlic?
-
Here's an update on my POIS solution through a video format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A
I really recognized myself in this video, thank you for making this syndrome known on Youtube and for proposing a solution.
By the way, have you tried replacing crushed garlic with alilicin capsules? Or are there other active ingredients in garlic?
I have tried regular garlic pills from different brands, and they were not as effective as freshly crushed raw garlic. Other members have come to similar conclusions I believe. You can check out the experiment I did here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=27.msg42022#msg42022
With that being said, I have not tested the "Alimax" brand which seems to claim their pills are more stable & therefore potent: https://www.rawnutrition.ca/alimax-pro-garlic-extra-strength-100-vegetarian-capsules-ampg
Would definitely be worth testing the Alimax, but to me I'd rather save the money and probably just keep crushin real garlic. If it holds to the same potency as freshly crushed raw garlic, then it would be very useful on nights out, etc.
And glad you connected with the video. :)
-
Here's an update on my POIS solution through a video format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A)
Be sure to like & subscribe!
I will be posting more videos about POIS soon, especially on the topics of semen retention ideology vs POIS, my 6-year journey battling POIS, & mindset.
The video format should help to spread awareness of POIS.
Excellent video, Warrior ! Thanks for having taken the time to create it.
I have added the link to it on the "What's POIS" board, where other POIS videos are linked too :) See at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4393.0 .
Nice yob Warrior..
Thanks guys. Keen on making more videos.
-
Here's an update on my POIS solution through a video format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80wts6prt6A
Thank you! Sent to NORD/POIS Research Team.
https://tinyurl.com/4p8tv5vs
-
My plan to reverse POIS food sensitivities through functional medicine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDOBnC1xmgw
-
Quick update:
80% sure I am sensitive to eggs, but their nutritional content is definitely worth consuming them. Might play around with just havin the yolks. May also be when I take the B complex with eggs (too much choline or B vitamins maybe?)
Taking "Mega Spore Biotic" at the recommendation of Functional Med specialist. Seems to illicit a brainfog/headachey reaction. Took in the past with no issues, but now seems to be causing some symptoms. Die off maybe? Who knows.
Have ordered a challenged heavy metals test, so will be testing that soon. Looking forward to the results...
Done a lot of urine analysis w/ prostatic massage / pH testing for any signs of bacterial (using chem10), etc as a urine analysis showed a pH level of 8. But since then, pH seems to be back to normal. High pH, and other chem10 measures can indicate possible bacterial infection.
Need to measure blood pressure in mild POIS state & compare to 3-6+ days of abstinence.
All following the advice of my functional med specialist. The goal is to reverse my food sensitivities & obviously root cause of POIS.
-
80% sure I am sensitive to eggs, but their nutritional content is definitely worth consuming them. Might play around with just havin the yolks.
I got into the same situation: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2192.msg46668#msg46668
First I thought it was about the sulfur.
Now I blame the beef liver pills for it, they have a lot of copper. https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4402.msg47009#msg47009
After stopping the beef liver for 2-3 weeks, I can handle eggs again it seems.
I'm researching (again, did this many years ago too :( ) into Pyroluria again which IMHO relates to high copper => low zinc.
I have another hair mineral analysis scheduled, let's see about that.
-
80% sure I am sensitive to eggs, but their nutritional content is definitely worth consuming them. Might play around with just havin the yolks.
I got into the same situation: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2192.msg46668#msg46668
First I thought it was about the sulfur.
Now I blame the beef liver pills for it, they have a lot of copper. https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4402.msg47009#msg47009
After stopping the beef liver for 2-3 weeks, I can handle eggs again it seems.
I'm researching (again, did this many years ago too :( ) into Pyroluria again which IMHO relates to high copper => low zinc.
I have another hair mineral analysis scheduled, let's see about that.
For me, I notice they can worsen my anhedonia. Especially on days I am experiencing very subtle low symptoms (usually days 1-3 ish post release).
Eggs definitely remain a net benefit for me in general, but the feels of anhedonia I sometimes experience (only for a few hours following eating them) can be annoying. Seems to be related to egg consumption, although I need to test it more.
Look into a challenged heavy metals urine test. I think it may be more accurate than the hair mineral test.
-
Going to experiment with Nanna1's POIS Cascade stack to see if I notice any difference.
Looks very interesting. Also many of the things I take which have improved my POIS seem closely related (B complex, eggs, choline, etc).
Nanna1's Stack: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.0
-
Animal-based is still the superior diet for my POIS.
My only struggle is that I often do not feel like I am eating enough carbs.
Need to experiment with these foods to see if they effect my symptoms:
- peeled and thoroughly boiled white potatoes (home-made oven baked white potatoes with some skin on exacerbates symptoms)
- sweet potatoes
For some reason, I also appear to be sensitive to apples. Who knows.
White rice just doesn't work for me unfortunately. :(
Few updates to my protocol:
- fenugreek & garlic isn't really all that necessary to take before or immediately after release. As long as I take it at some point after releasing (like the following morning), it speeds up and improves the recovery process. It obviously is ideal to take asap, but isn't urgent or worth stressing over at all
- red meat seems to be extremely important to take on recovery days 1-3 post release. Eggs on their own dont seem to fair too well on recovery days. Must be combined with red meat at the very least, otherwise this leads to worsening symptoms on those recovery days
- coffee helps a lot, especially on recovery days. Not sensitive to coffee, which is great
-
Hi everyone.
I have a very exciting and interesting lead to share.
Recently I have started following Nanna1s POIS Cascade Stack. It has been on my todo list for a while. Well, I wish I tested it earlier.
As soon as I started taking the SAM-e, along with all the other recommended supplements (most of which I was already taking), I noticed my food sensitivities clear up pretty much immediately. I was experiencing a clear mood even after eating foods that strayed away from my animal-based diet (things like white rice, thai curries, vegetables, etc which would normally give me symptoms!). This was mind boggling and exciting.
For me there is a direct correlation between the negative symptoms following eating certain foods while abstaining, and how those foods affect my POIS symptoms negatively. So, if I dont feel good after eating a certain food while abstaining, then the chances are it will exacerbate my POIS symptoms when triggered. Clearly, my food sensitivities and POIS are part of the same problem.
Today I ejaculated and for the first time in 6 years experienced zero symptoms. Ziltch. Even after eating a lot of rice and vegetables! This is nuts for me.
So I've just spent the entire afternoon absorbing and consuming all of Nanna1s posts. The guy really does sound like a genius. I am going to be following his protocol and immune competence therapy from here on out. Will keep yous updated with how it goes.
Obviously it is still very early on, which is why I have labelled this as a lead.
Nanna1 POIS Cascade Stack: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21497#msg21497
Nanna1 Immune Competence Therapy: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg31893#msg31893
-
Great news. I hope your future attempts result in no symptoms as well.
-
Great news. I hope your future attempts result in no symptoms as well.
Thanks Thomas. Still completely symptom-free, even while eating a now normal diet. This past week I have been completely blown away by it. Have you tried Nanna1s Cascade Stack?
Nanna1's theory also offers an explanation for my corresponding food sensitivities. Excerpt taken from POIS treatment: theory & supplement stack (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.0):
During normal sexual activity, histamine is not elevated (Becker et. al. 2011). However, POIS-like symptoms could be stimulated by non-coital external allergens (food, pollution, etc...), by replacing norepinephrine with either histamine or glutamate, and replacing a1A receptor with either the h1-histaminergic (h1H) or NMDA (NR2B) receptor. For example, histamine stimulation of h1H upregulates the enzyme Phospholipase A2, leading to the same release of PC and AA as discussed above [5, 6].
Currently in the process of purchasing supplements to begin the immune competence therapy (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg31889#msg31893).
Even if the immune competence therapy doesn't ultimately cure me (although I am very optimistic given that I am responding to Nanna1s Cascade Stack), Nanna1s theory & supplement stack (especially the SAMe) is a HUGE lead for my functional medicine specialist to work from moving forward.
-
Still completely symptom-free, even while eating a now normal diet. This past week I have been completely blown away by it.
This is impressive.
Does SAMe work directly within a few hours, or do you still have to take it for a few days before it takes effect?
Have you tried Nanna1s Cascade Stack?
I'm definitely gonna try it, although I'm not sure I'm on the same POIS clusters as Nanna1 and you.
-
Warrior, do you hawe neutropenia?
-
Still completely symptom-free, even while eating a now normal diet. This past week I have been completely blown away by it.
This is impressive.
Does SAMe work directly within a few hours, or do you still have to take it for a few days before it takes effect?
Have you tried Nanna1s Cascade Stack?
I'm definitely gonna try it, although I'm not sure I'm on the same POIS clusters as Nanna1 and you.
Seems like it began working after a day or so… from my memory, Nanna1 recommends you wait a month to truly determine if it works for you as some of the ingredients have a slow diffusion across the blood brain barrier. I’ve been taking a B complex for a long time as it helped enormously for my POIS and mental health in general when I began taking it - so I assume that my B vitamins and choline have been well stocked up for a while. Supplementation of Omega3 and D3 take time to build up apparently, so I just recently began supplementing them again with the protocol.
Pretty sure Nanna1 believes his solution covers multiple POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7 POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5 hence he's disclosed that in his forum bio.
I even experimented having gluten yesterday and releasing. The Cascade stack continues to hold up. My mood is better than ever, it’s honestly unbelievable. Now from everything I’ve learnt about health and chronic disease going through this journey, I am definitely still sticking to a gluten free diet and would non-medically recommend that for all, but it’s nice to know a little bit of gluten isn’t really going to harm me.
Sounds like this is the bro-science understanding of what’s going on:
Immune dysfunction/viral element -> POIS triggered -> makes me extremely sensitive to pretty much all plant foods -> significantly worsens POIS symptoms
Nanna1’s POIS Cascade Stack stops POIS trigger higher up in the “Cascade” of events -> no longer experiencing POIS or sensitivity to plant foods
Warrior, do you hawe neutropenia?
Yes. I had neutropenia in the past and was always convinced this was caused by POIS. For years I had low neutrophils on my routine bloods - always around 1.8 from memory. They only began improving once my symptoms began to improve with my old protocol. Even then I imagine they still weren't that high or in the optimal range even on my old protocol, as I was still experiencing a decent amount of symptoms compared to how I feel now. Here's a link to my post on low neutrophils & an experiment I did. (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg46042#msg46042).
-
Nanna1's POIS Cascade Stack still working very well. Over 1 month in.
Erased all food sensitivities and POIS as long as I stick to it.
-
Nanna1's POIS Cascade Stack still working very well. Over 1 month in.
Erased all food sensitivities and POIS as long as I stick to it.
Dear warrior ,
1) Is there any side effects of using SAM-e for a long time? I mean does it affect our liver bad way?
I heard it is usually recommended maximally for 12 weeks.. So using it for the life time could damage the liver?
2) Does it solved your cognitive problems like speech problems and brain fog?
3) Did you started Nanna1 immuno stack yet?
-
Nanna1's POIS Cascade Stack still working very well. Over 1 month in.
Erased all food sensitivities and POIS as long as I stick to it.
Dear warrior ,
1) Is there any side effects of using SAM-e for a long time? I mean does it affect our liver bad way?
I heard it is usually recommended maximally for 12 weeks.. So using it for the life time could damage the liver?
2) Does it solved your cognitive problems like speech problems and brain fog?
3) Did you started Nanna1 immuno stack yet?
1) As far as I know, its safe for most people. But you will find info on possible side effects on the net. I heard its actually good for the liver. Everyone is different though, so you will only know how it effects you by taking it. I'm not a medical professional, but from my experience so far ive experienced zero side effects and have been taking 200mg of Jarrows SAM-e twice a day.
2) Solves all cognitive symptoms. Best it's ever been, even when comparing it to my old animal-based approach. It's just more reliable. Feels like it cuts closer to the root cause, which is what Nanna1 talks about. On my animal-based approach, I always felt different for at least a day. Now with Nanna1's method, I don't really feel much different at all while being able to eat a completely normal diet - I can even tolerate gluten completely. Overloading the system with excessive ejaculations, like 3 in one day, does seem to produce minor symptoms from my experience.
Anhedonia, especially in the context of social situations, has been one of my biggest struggles when its come to the mild POIS symptoms (back in the day, intense anxiety, fatigue, brainfog, was obviously the most unpleasant before I knew anything.) This has pretty much revolutionised that, while being able to enjoy a normal diet.
3) I have everything purchased, just need to restart. Some trouble with Omega-3 supplementation has slowed me down. Gave me anxiety, brain fog, and irritability, so I had to stop everything and figure out what was causing it. Initially I was worried that the effectiveness of Nanna1s POIS Cascade stack was dwindling. Nope, turned out to be an Omega-3 supplement I had recently begun taking for the POIS Cascade stack. Now I just eat regular sardines with extra virgin olive oil in some apple cider vinegar frequently for the Omega-3. And back to feeling amazing, POIS free.
-
Have you tried SAM-e separately?
-
Have you tried SAM-e separately?
SAM-e is really the only new ingredient. All the rest I was pretty much taking already like the B complex and choline from eggs, vitamin d from sun, omega3 from red meat and sardines (and eating a low omega6 diet).
-
New video talking about my current experience following Nanna1s protocol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE27bYZ9uF0
-
Correct me if I'm wrong but according to Nanna1's theory, your animal-based approach should not improve your POIS (Arachidonic acid).
-
Correct me if I'm wrong but according to Nanna1's theory, your animal-based approach should not improve your POIS (Arachidonic acid).
Yes that’s correct.
From what I’ve read from Nanna1 I do not believe he had the same degree of food sensitivities that I do, rather he had exercise intolerance (from my memory). Who knows tho - I doubt he would have ever tried a diet that is so low in plant foods. He did abide by a gluten-free vegan diet though.
My animal-based diet without a doubt improved my POIS dramatically because of removing the plant foods that I am sensitive to (as part of my POIS condition.)
The arachidonic acid (AA) part is super interesting, but I’m not sure if he got the entire picture of the EPA/AA part. When I first began his method, it was extremely effective and I was still eating adequate amounts of animal foods - lots of beef, eggs, and dairy and therefore high amounts of AA. This was all off the back of many months being on an animal-based diet as well. I believe that the reason the method worked very effectively initially is because I kept my omega-6 consumption pretty much close to zero for many months before beginning his method. My Omega-3 would have been at a very solid level. Then I began eating foods higher in omega-6 and this seems to correspond with the method becoming less effective. I could be wrong though, this is just my bro science theory.
For clarification during my animal-based diet - I ate strictly red meat from Australia which is predominantly grass fed (which should in theory contain higher Omega-3) and sardines (high in Omega-3). I also ate a lot of dairy (I believe most dairy in Australia is mostly grass-fed). I also ate regular free-range eggs, which would have contained a bit of omega-6. All these foods contain decent amounts of the omega-6 AA Nanna1 talks about being very inflammatory in the context of his POIS theory.
From my imperfect memory of scrolling through a lot of his messages and theories, his understanding of EPA/AA seemed to be a developing learning. He later on introduced the CLA and believed that allowed him to not require as much EPA for the method.
-
I have discovered why Nanna1's method stopped working for me: vitamin D3
I went from taking 14,000iu/d (2x 7000iu per capsule LifeExtension) to virtually zero: 2000iu/d (2x SuperNutrition 1000iu per capsule). The LifeExtension brand contains extra virgin olive oil, I assume to increase the absorption of D3 if you don't take it with a fatty meal. The SuperNutrition contains no fat, meaning you must take it with a fatty meal for absorption. 90% of the time I was taking it on an empty stomach. So my D3 levels plummeted significantly. I also now work in a warehouse and live in the city, so don't get much sunlight compared to a year ago where I was working outside and lived in a more urban environment. As soon as I began supplementing the D3, I noticed a significant improvement in mood and the effectiveness of the method. I am smashing between 20,000-30,000iu/d. Will taper to 3000-10,000iu/d eventually. 25mcg K2/1000 D3.
This slipped completely under the radar! Glad I found the issue.
What's interesting is that, this final ingredient of D3 is essentially clearing up my POIS food sensitivities (as per Nanna1s method). It must be working in synergy with the other Nanna1 supplements as when I was on my animal-based method, my D3 was very high (I even got it tested - I was out in the sun all day everyday) CHECK EDIT. My D3 was actually in hindsight looking at my bloodwork from this time period, D3 was actually relatively low. Check edit below.
My original B complex is also working again (the one where they reduced certain ingredients). Low D3 was clearly making it unpleasant.
Edit: I should say the method is working again, but is still a bit patchy. Sometimes I will experience waves of anxiety and anhedonia. A bit difficult to describe, but it's certainly working 80-90%... Hopefully it will improve as my D3 levels improve.
EDIT 14/05/24 - My D3 back then actually wasn't very high, but was in what would be considered ok/normal range. But I would not consider it optimal range, no where near 'high' range. It was 79 nmol/L (22 ng/mL)... very much on the lower end, which would be completely ill advised against for someone with immune inflammatory issues you would think.
-
Vitamin D resistance?
Vitamin D Resistance as a Possible Cause of Autoimmune Diseases: A Hypothesis Confirmed by a Therapeutic High-Dose Vitamin D Protocol: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.655739/full
-
Vitamin D resistance?
Vitamin D Resistance as a Possible Cause of Autoimmune Diseases: A Hypothesis Confirmed by a Therapeutic High-Dose Vitamin D Protocol: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.655739/full
Interesting, thanks for sharing
-
Glad you found the issue with the stack. Just be careful with high dose of vitamin D, it can leads to hypercalcemia and kidney stones : https://www.healthline.com/health-news/too-much-vitamin-d-can-lead-to-kidney-failure
I believe the solution is to take k2 vitamin in synergy, but i'm not 100% sure and I don't know the dosage.
-
I have identified a 2nd major reason why Nanna1s method stopped working for me: SAM-e quality/dosage/tolerance
For context, adding back the D3 improved the method to around 80-90%, but still wasn't perfect until I made the following adjustment:
I just started taking another brand of SAM-e as my old Jarrows brand ran out. Upon taking this new brand, I felt an immediate improvement in symptoms. It's supposedly the same dose as the Jarrow's I was taking (200mg active from 400mg total per pill). The brand is NutraLife, and is a high quality reputable brand. After taking 1 pill from this new brand, I felt exactly how I felt in that first month of the method working. Sensitivities went away like magic.
I also distinctively remember the pills in the Jarrows box sticking to the plastic, which is probably indicative of melting/heat exposure, which is known to degrade SAM-e. So it's possible the quality from this batch had been diminished from heat exposure. Either that or, it's possible I'm absorbing this new brand better and getting a slightly higher amount of SAM-e. This morning when I took the SAM-e on an empty stomach (along with B complex and choline) I felt like I still could have used more SAM-e. This afternoon I decided to take 2x 200mg active SAM-e, but 30 minutes spaced apart so I could observe the effects of each dosage. And sure enough, after the first dose, which was my 2nd total for the day, again felt like I could use another. So I dosed the 3rd and sure enough felt incredible again. So more than likely a tolerance is building to the SAM-e. This is the first time I've gone over 400mg of active SAM-e per day. Some people dose as high as 1600mg/day.
From reading through Nanna1s messages, he cycled the SAM-e/POIS Cascade stack. For me, this isnt preferable as the SAM-e (POIS Cascade Stack) takes away my food sensitivities as well as POIS. He does say in his theory that each one of us, given our unique genetic breakdown, will have a different mixture of symptoms alongside POIS. Sounds like he probably didn't have too many food sensitivities like I do, and yet, our cure/root cause appears to be extremely similar as per his theory. From memory, he had exercise intolerance, which I do not. Given that he most likely cycled the SAM-e, this would have broken up any tolerance that built for him, allowing him to keep his dosage relatively low (200mg active twice a day).
Hi Nas,
That's awesome you are seeing results. Keep listening to your body to see what works best for you. I take around 1800mg omega-3 EPA and 2000IU of D3 per day and on orgasms days I usually take 2 x 200mg of SAM-e (400mg). To save money, I have started taking alphaGPC, SAM-e and B1 only on orgasm days. Cutting the stack when you don't need it sounds like a useful strategy to guard against any tolerance that might develop to SAM-e. Thanks for sharing that part ;) . B6 should also help prevent tolerance to SAM-e.
I'm cautious about pausing and resuming omega-3 and D3 since they take days to fully build up in the body. So for me, I always take those two supplements.
In a new development on my side, I have started experimenting with tocotrienols which are rare forms of vitamin E. I did a post about it (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2597.msg22716#msg22716). It just came in two days ago and subjectively today have noticed more creativity and quickness in my thoughts. And also I feel more resilient to stress. Not much worries me. I'm not entirely sure this is due to the tocotrienols since it has only been two days, but my ultimate goal is to replace/eliminate/reduce the three most expensive parts of the stack (SAM-e/alphaGPC/omega-3). This is not something I would suggest others do. I'm more curious to see if I can reduce the number of pills I take (and save some money).
Heres some tolerance information from PsychonautWiki on SAM-e:
Tolerance and addiction potential
SAM-e is not habit-forming with a low potential for abuse. It does not seem to be capable of causing psychological or physiological dependence among users.
Tolerance to many of the effects of S-adenosyl methionine develops over several weeks of prolonged and repeated use. This results in users having to administer increasingly larger doses to achieve the same effects. After that, it takes about 3 - 7 days for the tolerance to be reduced to half and 1 - 2 weeks to be back at baseline (in the absence of further consumption).
Moving forward I am going to continue to investigate the SAM-e component of the method, specifically tolerance, bioavailability/absorption on empty stomach & whether this is effected by orange juice versus water, SAMe brand quality, and tolerance cycling. It may be that I need to cycle Nanna1s method (specifically the SAM-e) with my animal-based method for the SAM-e to work long-term. I.e., take SAM-e for month straight, enjoy normal diet, then take 2 week tolerance break & jump back on animal-based while tolerance resets, etc.
With all this being said, I dont believe the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio has impacted the effectiveness of the method, like I initially thought. So far I havent seen or felt any evidence of that. I still try to keep my ratio in Omega-3 balance regardless. The one thing I'm learning with this method is attention to details is important lol
-
Hi Warrior.
SAM-e is temperature sensitive as you've already discovered. Fortunately in Australia we have a brand available to us that uses refrigeration for transport and storage of some medicines, including SAM-e.
BioCeuticals NuroSAMe Plus Tablets
You can get it from some Chemist Warehouses and will need to ask a pharmacist to get it out of the fridge. It's not the most cost friendly option, but to have a bit more of a guarantee of efficacy is what swayed me.
I will use this until I dive deeper into the other methylation problems which seems a lot cheaper to manage than the more direct SAM-e route.
-
Update on Nanna1s protocol:
I still haven't been able to get Nanna1s POIS Cascade working like it was in that initial month. Supplementing D3 & Omega3, and higher doses of SAM-e has certainly helped, but isn't working at 100% like it was. I think more than likely its a tolerance to SAM-e. I am going to continue the protocol alongside my animal-based diet & original method, and then in about 25 days time, reintroduce some non animal-based foods and see if there is a reaction. If I get a reaction, this will prove to me that more than likely its a tolerance to SAM-e, as by that time my Omega-3 and D3 levels (which are fat soluable & take time to build up) should be well and truly at solid levels again by then. I will then take a break from the SAM-e (at least 2 weeks) and see if its effective again. Perhaps it must be used exclusively for releasing days to prevent tolerance.
Regardless, it’s a huge breakthrough, and I am going to be bringing this fresh information to my functional medicine specialist at my next appointment. I am going to get him to read through Nanna1s theory.
In addition to all of this, I have begun Nanna1’s immune therapy competence. Specifically the immune activation part. I believe this, at the very least some variation of this process, targeting the immune system & viral/bacteria/infection element is key to curing this bitch.
-
Yes, according to nana1, he was "premanently cured" by
immune stimulating protocoll. Who knows, maybe this will work for you
to, if you dont try you will newer know.
About sam-e, what about creatine use insted of sam-e?
Some poisers talked here that is better..?
It is intresting how sam-e worked for you, i quest my self what
sam-e "unlock" for you? Antiinflamatory? Detox pethways?
-
Quck google..
SAMe plays a role in the immune system, maintains cell membranes, and helps produce and break down brain chemicals, such as serotonin, melatonin, and dopamine. It works with vitamin B12 and folate (vitamin B9). Being deficient in either vitamin B12 or folate may reduce levels of SAMe in your body.
How does SAM-e affect hormones?
SAM-e (S-adenosylmethionine) Benefits, Dosage and Side ...
Basically, SAM-e is involved in many metabolic processes throughout the body, and it plays a role in the formation, activation and breakdown of many chemicals, including hormones and proteins. SAM-e increases the turnover of serotonin and may increase levels of dopamine and norepinephrine.15. maj 2023.
S-Adenosyl methionine (SAM), also known under the commercial names of SAMe, SAM-e, or AdoMet, is a common cosubstrate involved in methyl group transfers, transsulfuration, and aminopropylation. Although these anabolic reactions occur throughout the body, most SAM is produced and consumed in the liver.
-
Me personaly had to give up on sam-e after 1 day because of side
effects, high iritability(now food brand).
-
Hi Warrior.
SAM-e is temperature sensitive as you've already discovered. Fortunately in Australia we have a brand available to us that uses refrigeration for transport and storage of some medicines, including SAM-e.
BioCeuticals NuroSAMe Plus Tablets
You can get it from some Chemist Warehouses and will need to ask a pharmacist to get it out of the fridge. It's not the most cost friendly option, but to have a bit more of a guarantee of efficacy is what swayed me.
I will use this until I dive deeper into the other methylation problems which seems a lot cheaper to manage than the more direct SAM-e route.
Thanks. I just went out and purchased a pack yesterday while I have more in the mail. Expensive stuff, cost me $70 for the packet.
Yes, according to nana1, he was "premanently cured" by
immune stimulating protocoll. Who knows, maybe this will work for you
to, if you dont try you will newer know.
About sam-e, what about creatine use insted of sam-e?
Some poisers talked here that is better..?
It is intresting how sam-e worked for you, i quest my self what
sam-e "unlock" for you? Antiinflamatory? Detox pethways?
Creatine is on my todo try list, given that I've responded so well to B vitmains & methylation supplements (SAM-e, choline/alphaGPC).
-
Pretty sure monolaurin is improving my symptoms. Bit early to tell, but I’ve been taking monolaurin and propolis in addition to Nanna1’s immune therapy (zinc, beta-glucans, AHCC, etc) and am noticing an actual immediate improvement from taking the monolaurin. I know another user Going Less Crazy had a positive response to monolaurin as well, who also has food sensitivities.
It could be another supplement in the immune stack (my 2nd guess would be AHCC), but from observing my feelings after each supplement, it appears to be the monolaurin. Will update again in the future.
It’s reported that some of the viruses that have been inactivated, at least partially, by monolaurin include:
HIV
measles
herpes simplex-1
vesicular stomatitis
visna virus
cytomegalovirus
HHV-5: Cytomegalovirus (CMV): Epithelial mucosa
Beta herpesvirus dependent POIS
"Furthermore, angioplasty-induced injury to the vessel wall and reperfusion after balloon angioplasty produce ROS8 and cytokines. The resulting activation of NF-kB can in turn stimulate the MIEP present in latently infected cells and thereby contribute to reactivation of latent CMV...Recent studies have shown that CMV infection of human cells leads to stimulation of arachidonic acid (AA) release." -Aspirin Attenuates Cytomegalovirus Infectivity and Gene Expression Mediated by Cyclooxygenase-2 in Coronary Artery Smooth Muscle Cells (1998)
Cytomegalovirus (CMV, HHV-5) and HHV-6 are Betaherpesvirinae that primarily latently infect endothelial cells such as blood vessels and epithelial mucosa such as intestinal epithelia (Ref). This is unlike alpha-herpes viruses (HSV-1, HSV-2, VZV) which primarily latently infect neurons. Within minutes of infecting endothelial cells CMV upregulates reactive oxygen species (H2O2), NF-kB, COX-2 and cytokines (RefSE). These Betaherpesvirinae maintain this inflammatory environment while latent.
Garlic & HHV-5/CMV/HCMV anti-viral: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7434784/
I am currently getting tested for HHV-1 to HHV-6 (I forgot to get HHV-7). HHV-5 and HHV-6 are most important to test according to Nanna1's theory.
-
Continuing to have some pretty profound results from Monolaurin. I am surprised this hasn't been spoken about more on here or at the subreddit.
It is a potent anti-viral, is relatively cheap and fairly safe (you still need to use it responsibly). I am eating normal food and it's wiping away my sensitivities. It's still very early, but extremely promising results thus far and would recommend others give it a go.
My approach now is very focused on anti-viral/anti-bacterial, infection related. Still taking many Nanna1 and immune supplements (cycling many).
Monolaurin dosage guide: https://www.monolaurinandmore.com/monolaurin-dosage
How does Monolaurin work?
Monolaurin research suggests it is able to inactivate lipid-coated viruses such as herpes, cytomegalovirus, influenza, and various pathogenic bacteria and protozoa in lab settings [Ref #1, 2, 3, 11, 12].
Monolaurin purportedly works by binding to the lipid-protein envelope of the virus, thereby preventing it from attaching and entering host cells, making infection and replication impossible [Ref #2]. Other studies suggest that monolaurin disintegrates the protective viral envelope, killing the virus [Ref #13].
Monolaurin has Generally Recognized As Safe (GRAS) status and is considered to be nontoxic. It is effective against
many microorganisms and can be taken on a daily basis, given
that evidence suggests it does not create antiviral or antibacterial resistance.
The general recommended adult dose of monolaurin is 1–3 g.
Higher amounts can be used to achieve desired results if necessary. It is safe for children (ages 3–10) with the recommended
dose being smaller—30 mg, one to three times per day. Monolaurin is available as minipellets that should be swallowed and not
chewed.19
-
Continuing to have some pretty profound results from Monolaurin. I am surprised this hasn't been spoken about more on here or at the subreddit.
It is a potent anti-viral, is relatively cheap and fairly safe (you still need to use it responsibly). I am eating normal food and it's wiping away my sensitivities. It's still very early, but extremely promising results thus far and would recommend others give it a go.
My approach now is very focused on anti-viral/anti-bacterial, infection related. Still taking many Nanna1 and immune supplements (cycling many).
Monolaurin dosage guide: https://www.monolaurinandmore.com/monolaurin-dosage (https://www.monolaurinandmore.com/monolaurin-dosage)
How does Monolaurin work?
Monolaurin research suggests it is able to inactivate lipid-coated viruses such as herpes, cytomegalovirus, influenza, and various pathogenic bacteria and protozoa in lab settings [Ref #1, 2, 3, 11, 12].
Monolaurin purportedly works by binding to the lipid-protein envelope of the virus, thereby preventing it from attaching and entering host cells, making infection and replication impossible [Ref #2]. Other studies suggest that monolaurin disintegrates the protective viral envelope, killing the virus [Ref #13].
Interesting, Warrior !
Do you have any idea how many grams of organic coconut oil will equal a 600mg capsule of monolaurin ?
-
Continuing to have some pretty profound results from Monolaurin. I am surprised this hasn't been spoken about more on here or at the subreddit.
It is a potent anti-viral, is relatively cheap and fairly safe (you still need to use it responsibly). I am eating normal food and it's wiping away my sensitivities. It's still very early, but extremely promising results thus far and would recommend others give it a go.
My approach now is very focused on anti-viral/anti-bacterial, infection related. Still taking many Nanna1 and immune supplements (cycling many).
Monolaurin dosage guide: https://www.monolaurinandmore.com/monolaurin-dosage (https://www.monolaurinandmore.com/monolaurin-dosage)
How does Monolaurin work?
Monolaurin research suggests it is able to inactivate lipid-coated viruses such as herpes, cytomegalovirus, influenza, and various pathogenic bacteria and protozoa in lab settings [Ref #1, 2, 3, 11, 12].
Monolaurin purportedly works by binding to the lipid-protein envelope of the virus, thereby preventing it from attaching and entering host cells, making infection and replication impossible [Ref #2]. Other studies suggest that monolaurin disintegrates the protective viral envelope, killing the virus [Ref #13].
Interesting, Warrior !
Do you have any idea how many grams of organic coconut oil will equal a 600mg capsule of monolaurin ?
I read somewhere you need to drink 100-300mL of coconut oil daily or something ridiculous to get a therapeutic dose. Getting Monolaurin from coconut oil just isn’t realistic, even though that’s where it’s found. You need to take actual Monolaurin through supplement form.
Lauric acid can be ingested in coconut oil and your body will convert it into monolaurin, but researchers are unsure of the conversion rates. Because of this, it's impossible to say how much coconut oil you would need to ingest to receive a therapeutic dose of monolaurin.
-
Thanks for this comprehensive answer, Warrior !
I see that a site that I order from, Vitacost, has introduced a new monolaurin preparation in its brand line. They have put some inosine in it as well. I took a look to see the utility, and inosine is supposed to also have antiviral activity, and inosine also reduces the level of some pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-6, which are causing many symptoms in viral infections like influenza.
Would have been very useful to me 25 years ago, when I had mononucleosis/EPV - been very very sick for 6 weeks.
-
Thanks for this comprehensive answer, Warrior !
I see that a site that I order from, Vitacost, has introduced a new monolaurin preparation in its brand line. They have put some inosine in it as well. I took a look to see the utility, and inosine is supposed to also have antiviral activity, and inosine also reduces the level of some pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-6, which are causing many symptoms in viral infections like influenza.
Would have been very useful to me 25 years ago, when I had mononucleosis/EPV - been very very sick for 6 weeks.
Ah yes, my current supplement is just monolaurin and calcium, but they've added calcium as a filler, so I also have another supplement in the mail for 100% monolaurin. Do you suspect any kind of viral or infection element behind your POIS? I know Nanna1 was big on this theory when he was active on the forum.
-
3) Some trouble with Omega-3 supplementation has slowed me down. Gave me anxiety, brain fog, and irritability, so I had to stop everything and figure out what was causing it. Initially I was worried that the effectiveness of Nanna1s POIS Cascade stack was dwindling. Nope, turned out to be an Omega-3 supplement I had recently begun taking for the POIS Cascade stack. Now I just eat regular sardines with extra virgin olive oil in some apple cider vinegar frequently for the Omega-3. And back to feeling amazing, POIS free.
I might be experiencing the same symptoms as you with omega-3 supplements. I'm struggling to find information about this on the internet. Do you have any clue about what causes these symptoms and why it's different with regular fish ?
-
Thanks for this comprehensive answer, Warrior !
I see that a site that I order from, Vitacost, has introduced a new monolaurin preparation in its brand line. They have put some inosine in it as well. I took a look to see the utility, and inosine is supposed to also have antiviral activity, and inosine also reduces the level of some pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-6, which are causing many symptoms in viral infections like influenza.
Would have been very useful to me 25 years ago, when I had mononucleosis/EPV - been very very sick for 6 weeks.
Ah yes, my current supplement is just monolaurin and calcium, but they've added calcium as a filler, so I also have another supplement in the mail for 100% monolaurin. Do you suspect any kind of viral or infection element behind your POIS? I know Nanna1 was big on this theory when he was active on the forum.
No, I do not think that a viral infection in particular is an essential factor in my POIS. There is no Lyme around here ( too cold, just appeared a few years ago in the southern part of Quebec province, and I am North). I had EBV ( mononucleosis) in my 30s but already had POIS for over 15 years ( since puberty). I had lots of colds, flus, allergies, and respiratory tract infections as a child - I was always sick, all year round. I had dozens of antibiotic treatments. So, probably my overall poor health is an important factor, but it would be hard to pinpoint one infection out of the hundreds I had. My immune system was surely not functioning normally. But when I got older and did what I had to do to improve my health, I stopped to have all those viral and bacterial infections, but POIS stayed, even if my immune system got better.
-
3) Some trouble with Omega-3 supplementation has slowed me down. Gave me anxiety, brain fog, and irritability, so I had to stop everything and figure out what was causing it. Initially I was worried that the effectiveness of Nanna1s POIS Cascade stack was dwindling. Nope, turned out to be an Omega-3 supplement I had recently begun taking for the POIS Cascade stack. Now I just eat regular sardines with extra virgin olive oil in some apple cider vinegar frequently for the Omega-3. And back to feeling amazing, POIS free.
I might be experiencing the same symptoms as you with omega-3 supplements. I'm struggling to find information about this on the internet. Do you have any clue about what causes these symptoms and why it's different with regular fish ?
I fixed it with vitamin D3! My levels must of been getting very low and were causing symptoms with omega3 supplementation and even B vitamins. Try D3, make sure you take it with a fatty meal for absorption. 100mcg of K2 per 1000 D3 to be safe from calcification my specialist said. You could do a temporary megadose phase of 14,000 iu/1.4mg of K2 then drop to 7000 iu/700mcg of K2. Not a doctor but these are rough recommendations from my specialist.
-
Thanks for this comprehensive answer, Warrior !
I see that a site that I order from, Vitacost, has introduced a new monolaurin preparation in its brand line. They have put some inosine in it as well. I took a look to see the utility, and inosine is supposed to also have antiviral activity, and inosine also reduces the level of some pro-inflammatory cytokines like IL-6, which are causing many symptoms in viral infections like influenza.
Would have been very useful to me 25 years ago, when I had mononucleosis/EPV - been very very sick for 6 weeks.
Ah yes, my current supplement is just monolaurin and calcium, but they've added calcium as a filler, so I also have another supplement in the mail for 100% monolaurin. Do you suspect any kind of viral or infection element behind your POIS? I know Nanna1 was big on this theory when he was active on the forum.
No, I do not think that a viral infection in particular is an essential factor in my POIS. There is no Lyme around here ( too cold, just appeared a few years ago in the southern part of Quebec province, and I am North). I had EBV ( mononucleosis) in my 30s but already had POIS for over 15 years ( since puberty). I had lots of colds, flus, allergies, and respiratory tract infections as a child - I was always sick, all year round. I had dozens of antibiotic treatments. So, probably my overall poor health is an important factor, but it would be hard to pinpoint one infection out of the hundreds I had. My immune system was surely not functioning normally. But when I got older and did what I had to do to improve my health, I stopped to have all those viral and bacterial infections, but POIS stayed, even if my immune system got better.
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
-
Tested negative for HHV-1, HHV-2, EBV (HHV-4), CMV (HHV-5). Tested positive for VZV (HHV-3) and HHV-6.
Monolaurin is said to be effective on literally all those viruses I tested negative for lol.
Monolaurin continues to work. I'm not sure how realistic it is to take long-term tho. It is a natural antibacterial, and may wipe away the good guys as well. According to Lauricidin's website (original brand behind Monolaurin), it is safe to build up to dosages of 9g/d. Monolaurin also has 4100 reviews on Amazon, with a tonne of positive reviews, an average of 4.6/5. The supplement is regarded as fairly safe, and I would suspect a lot more negative reviews, concern, and conservativeness from the brand if it were truly dangerous in a significant capacity. But I do still worry about long-term use and wiping away good bacteria. Here's a link to official website & dosage: https://www.lauricidin.com/learn/intake-instructions
I notice that I need to take upwards of 2-3g or so/d spread throughout to have high relief of food sensitivities. Any less and it gets a little hit or miss with subtle symptoms. 3g/d gives some pretty strong herx reactions which is why people build up over time slowly, using 30mg pellets (available from the original Lauricidin brand). Even 1g/d still has pretty amazing effects of reducing symptoms tho, the 2-3g/d is for perfect alleviation of all symptoms, even while eating gluten! Note: my food sensitivities are tied into POIS, so when something is effective for my food sensitivities, it is equally effective for actual POIS. Nowdays I mostly do my POIS testing on food sensitivity.
PS: I am going to summarise & share all of my blood work at some point, in a clear organised manner, so I can add it to the medical data listed here at POIS Center.
-
Summary of POIS Symptom Reduction & Cure Strategy
This is a WIP summary of my POIS symptom reduction & cure strategy. Much obviously inspired by Nanna1. Some extras from the recommendation of my functional medicine specialist. I believe the root cause of POIS is some kind of infection or gut dysbiosis. My killing/immune supplements are aimed at that.
Note: Yes, it's a decent amount of supplements. Regular CBC and LFT blood work is advised to stay on top of everything. Much of this has also been vetted by my specialist. Any supplements taken should be thoroughly researched, and double-check potential supplement interactions.
Modified Nanna1 POIS Cascade Stack that includes methyl-buffers (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg47809#msg47809):
--SAM-e 200mg active 1x (skip until methyl buffer system is working)
--B complex 150 Forte (B12, Folate & B6 are most important as SAM-e cofactors. I prefer a good B complex.)
--AlphaGPC 600-1200mg
--Vitamin D3/K2 7000iu with 700mcg K2
--Omega-3 DHA & EPA 1-2gs
Methyl buffer system
--Vitamin A 3000mcg (only necessary if you're deficient in Vitamin A / need to be careful of Vitamin A toxicity)
--Glycine 3-9g
Use when over-methylated - mops up excess methyl-groups
--Niacin 50mg every 2 hrs until flushing
Killing/Immune:
--Monolaurin, titrate up to minimum 3g/d for 3 months. Don’t want to risk antibiotic resistance if it’s killing the right things. Titrate down if herx reaction is too strong. Dosages up to 9g/d are safe according to Lauricidin’s website.
--Propolis 1-2 pills
May be cycled according to immune stimulation. From Nanna1's Immune Competence Therapy (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg31889#msg31893):
--AHCC 1-4 pills
--Beta-glucans 1g
--Andrographis 100mg (do not exceed, Monolaruin is already a potent antibiotic)
--Liposomal Vitamin C 1-2g
--Zinc 50mg
--Quercetin 2g
--Magnesium 2-3 pills (always before bed)
--Mega IgG2000 (biotoxin binder – take with food) 2-4x
*Make sure you are pissing, shitting, and sweating for detoxification.
Probiotics (taken alongside Monolaurin, putting the good guys back in):
--MegaSpore probiotic 1-2
--Raw fermented sauerkraut, kimchi, or kefir (at least 2)
Intravenous Vitamin C (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2683.msg23776#msg23776):
--Vitamin C drip 15g 4 days consecutively
--Copper 2mg
Other:
--NAC (excellent for immune support but makes me anxious)
Medical testing in the pipeline:
--GI Map (or any top-quality gut microbiome testing - still need to research)
--Potentially more viral and bacteria testing
Original Animal-Based Method (still completely effective):
--Animal-Based Diet by Paul Saladino
--Raw minced garlic
--Fenugreek
--Red meat
--Eggs
--B Complex
Haven’t tested yet, but may be useful:
--Creatine (especially for SAM-e/methylation)
--Mushrooms (Chaga, Cordyceps) from Oriveda, Vibe, or Real Mushrooms (mushroom supplements must be purchased from reliable high-quality brands)
--Vegan diet to reduce AA in POIS Cascade
--Herpes viruses deplete TMG, Taurine, NAD+, & Creatine
--Vitamin E
--Boron
--Schisandra (for kidney support)
-
Awesome work!
It looks like you're combining both of Nanna 1's stacks together.
Is that providing you with better results than the immune stack alone?
PS - Would you mind sharing who's the specialist you're working with? It seems you got this stuff on lock haha
-
Awesome work!
It looks like you're combining both of Nanna 1's stacks together.
Is that providing you with better results than the immune stack alone?
PS - Would you mind sharing who's the specialist you're working with? It seems you got this stuff on lock haha
The POIS Cascade Stack has really been the only thing of Nanna1s work that has given me complete immediate relief of POIS symptoms (and food sensitivities). That lasted for 30 days, until it stopped working. I think it stopped working as my D3 levels plummeted (I basically stopped taking it), and I assume some tolerance to the SAM-e was developed. I recently added CLA for the first time, and do believe this has had a positive impact, although I do admit I started it just after having success with Monolaurin, so it's a bit difficult to tell how much it's helping. Regardless, SAM-e, D3, and B vitamins have all significantly improved my POIS, even to this day, so I continue to take the Cascade Stack. His ICT pre-pack didn't do much, although I didn't extensively test it. I haven't tried his betaherpes pre-pack, though I am curious to how I would respond to that.
And yes, the specialist I'm working with is Oscar Sierra from Sierra Collaborative Medicine (https://www.sierracollaborativemed.com/). He works predominantly with cancer patients and rare diseases. I do online consultations with him. Totally recommend! I would see him more regularly, but the price of sessions add up quickly. Nonetheless, he's been a big help thus far in ruling out potential causes, and was also the one who recommended me personally the Monolaurin, which I've had great success with so far. With that being said, I don't know how the monolaurin will work long-term, and I don't know if it's advised to take it permanently.
-
I went without vitamin D3 for a few days as I ran out of K2. And boy did I feel the negative effects of it, slowly creeping in day by day. For me it increases auditory thought noise, which is like an undertone of anxiety. I think vitamin D3 is really important for POISers. I think that's been well-established here already, so just re-emphasising that. When you have an inflammatory condition like ours, it probably drains these vital resources like D3 a lot quicker.
I take 7000iu/d, ideally with 700mcg of K2. Maybe a bit overkill on the K2, but my specialist recommended me 100mcg per 1000iu D3 to be completely safe in regards to the calcification risk.
-
Hypothesis: Nanna1s method stopped working 100% after 30 days due to over-methylation from SAM-e. The method has now been working perfectly as of 06/01/2024 since I integrated these changes:
Over-methylation can create high levels of dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine in the brain. (https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2018/06/25/is-overmethylation-the-cause-of-your-anxiety/#:~:text=People%20who%20are%20experiencing%20overmethylation,to%20appropriately%20use%20methyl%20groups) Norepinephrine stimulates arachidonic acid (AA) release (https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpcell.1998.274.4.c1129), the inflammatory fatty acid involved in the POIS Cascade (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21497#msg21497).
Anecdotal: Nanna1's POIS Cascade method worked perfectly for a month until it's effectiveness waned. Initially, I was taking the 200mg active SAM-e once daily, then titrated up to 2x as per instructions, despite feeling like I didn't always need the 2nd dosage. I also noticed that after taking SAM-e or TMG, I would get a very distinct episode of body aches, as if it had triggered a tiny episode of POIS symptoms. This did not happen when I first began taking the SAM-e. I believe this change began happening once I started to become over-methylated from excess SAM-e. Taking methyl buffers should theoretically fix this problem:
Modified Nanna1 POIS Cascade Stack that includes methyl-buffers:
--SAM-e 200mg active 2x (Skip until you are no longer over-methylated. See notes below for individual dosage)
--B complex 150 Forte (B12, Folate & B6 are most important as SAM-e cofactors. This B complex makes me feel good so I take it and is probably the reason why I don't need as much SAM-e.)
--Choline source 600-1200mg (I personally haven't noticed any difference in supplementing choline, but it certainly is an important nutrient for your methylation cycle. I do however feel amazing after eating eggs.)
--Vitamin D3/K2 14,000iu with 1.4mg K2 (Very important, see my post here (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg47832#msg47832).)
--Omega-3 DHA & EPA 1-2gs (I've noticed zero effect from supplementing Omega-3, but I take it as it's generally agreed upon that Omega-3 supplementation is good for you. It's spoken about in the POIS Cascade, but according to Nanna1 is only useful in this context if you eat a low AA vegan diet)
Methyl buffer system
--Vitamin A (Only necessary if you're deficient in Vitamin A. Warning: Vitamin A toxicity is a real concern with large dosages. I personally have not been able to tolerate retinol supplementation for some strange reason, so I will be experimenting with eating liver. Cod liver oil would be a great source.)
--Glycine 3-9g (Best taken before bed as it can make you sleepy. Magnesium glycinate may be an effective way of supplementing both.)
Use when over-methylated - mops up excess methyl-groups
--Niacin 50mg every 2 hrs until flushing
Extra notes:
--Stop SAM-e and TMG supplementation until methyl buffer system is working and/or you are no longer over-methylated.
--Make sure you have adequate levels of iron. Most people are not iron deficient so I did not include it in the list of supplements.
--Amount of SAM-e you need to supplement is probably going to vary on an individual basis. Currently testing 400mg morning & night after a period of daily Glycine/Vit A.
Helpful resources:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MTHFR/comments/169595o/overundermethylator_or_deficient_methyl_buffering/
https://butternutrition.com/signs-of-overmethylation/
*If the stack stops working in the future, look no further than something becoming unbalanced in the methylation cycle.
Note: Not a doctor nor does any of this qualify as medical advise. Follow at your own risk.
-
Dear Warrior,
1.Do you have muscle weakening/muscle wasting and tiredness problems related to POIS?
If yes, is Nanna1's method helping to improve that?
2. So is there a progress in communication skills and social anxiety by now after following Nanna1 method ?
3. What is your progress of Nanna1 immune stack ?
-
Dear Warrior,
1.Do you have muscle weakening/muscle wasting and tiredness problems related to POIS?
If yes, is Nanna1's method helping to improve that?
2. So is there a progress in communication skills and social anxiety by now after following Nanna1 method ?
3. What is your progress of Nanna1 immune stack ?
1. Yes, fatigue has always been one of my main POIS symptoms. This includes muscle weakness and tiredness. At one point, my fatigue during days 1-3 post ejaculation was incredibly intense. My original animal-based method made a world of a difference, but only as long as I stayed on the animal-based diet. Now with Nanna1's method, I can eat normally and I don't have any fatigue or muscle weakness.
2. So what I spoke about above is exactly the same for communication skills. My animal-based method allowed me to experience little to no social symptoms, as long as I stayed on animal-based. Now that Nanna1's method is working, I can eat normally, release, and socialise normally with zero communication symptoms. It's honestly crazy to me that this is real as I'm writing this.
3. I've temporarily paused the immune stack while I have been clarifying and tinkering with the POIS Cascade method. I plan on resuming it at some point in the near future.
Edit 18/01/24: I may still be experiencing some muscle fatigue. It's difficult to tell if it's the result of POIS/food sensitivity, or if it's because I'm not eating enough. I work a very physical job and often have a difficult time eating enough calories. In general, at this point in my life, with everything going on health-wise and the type of physical job I currently have, my body has been put under enormous physical stress. With that being said, if the method wasn't working at all, I would be experiencing extreme fatigue and muscle weakness.
-
Importance of Vitamin D3 for POIS - you need more than you think! 2000iu of D3 isn't nearly enough!
Recently went back to 7000iu of D3 daily from 14,000iu and felt the slow and gradual increase of 'auditory thought noise' a classic symptom from my POIS. In the past I went from 14,000iu to 2000iu D3, and the increase in auditory thought noise was intense. This time round, it wasn't as intense, but still very bothersome. I have an indoor job, so my D3 supplement needs are naturally going to be higher than someone who spends their jobs outdoor. In the past, I used to work a labouring outdoor job (1.5 year ago) and got a tonne of sunlight. I got my D3 levels tested back then and they were solid. I took for granted how much D3 was helping my POIS back then, so have never spoken about how important D3 is, until recently in the past few months I have learnt how much worst POIS gets when your D3 are low.
I'm not a doctor so none of this is medical advice, but I do believe that if you have POIS, which is clearly some kind of inflammatory condition, your D3 needs are going to be higher than normal. Inflammatory conditions deplete D3 fast. I feel horrible on 2000iu/d of D3, I feel not as bad on 7000iu/d, and feel amazing on 14,000iu/d. You need to supplement vitamin K2 to prevent D3 toxicity risks with calcification. 100mcg of K2 per 10,000iu D3 is the general consensus recommendation. My functional medicine specialist recommended me 100mcg per 1000iu to be absolutely safe.
D3 must also be taken with a fatty meal as it's a fat soluble vitamin.
Dosages higher than 14,000iu/d may even be ideal - all depends on your D3 levels, absorption ability, and D3 needs. Getting D3 levels tested is recommended - listen to your body and health care specialist for guidance.
Great video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFxQJmvgXOQ)
Another great video (https://youtu.be/11qN7GUuoy0?si=iDS02rIteyhYKITN)
https://youtu.be/tQ19ysKL8Nc?si=ZfwsrKOgLXBrcVaJ
Most doctors test pre-active form of Vitamin D. Must measure active form of Vitamin D for reliable measurement. (https://youtu.be/tQ19ysKL8Nc?si=ZfwsrKOgLXBrcVaJ)
- Dr Berg also recommends 10,000iu-20,000iu as a safe maintence dosage. 100mcg K2 per 10,000iu D3.
-
Update on the methyl (Nanna1's POIS Cascade Stack) stack:
Right now I'm using this stack (mostly the SAM-e and niacin) for utility purposes. I am yet to figure out a correct dosage and regime to prevent under and over-methylation permanently. I've had days where I can eat normal and experience zero POIS symptoms whatsoever. That's when the SAM-e is balanced. Then I have days where symptoms begin slipping through, until I take a corresponding under or over-methylated supplement (SAM-e or niacin.)
By utility this is what I mean:
START HERE: Experiencing POIS or food sensitivity symptoms ->
-> Am I under or over-methylated? -> I think I'm under, let's try SAM-e -> Feel better -> Fixed.
-> Am I under or over-methylated? -> I think I'm over, I've taken lots of SAM-e lately -> Try niacin -> Fixed.
-> Am I under or over-methylated? -> I think I'm under, let's try SAM-e -> Don't feel better / feel worst -> Try niacin -> Fixed.
I am yet to get the methyl buffer system working (glycine & Vitamin A). For now that is all theoretical. I haven't been able to prove it's effectiveness just yet. I don't seem to tolerate glycine very well, maybe I will try again in the future.
-
I think it’s possible the monolaurin works in combination with other immune supplements. I tried testing it again the other day and didn’t really notice much impact on symptoms. I think something in Nanna1’s immune competence therapy or something in my additional supplements like Propolis has a synergistic effect with the monolaurin to inhibit POIS symptoms. It could be the case with biofilm disruptors, then enabling the monolaurin to penetrate. If anyone wants to experiment with monolaurin, an you have the money to do so, I would suggest the following complimentary supplements, most of which are from Nanna1's Immune Competence Therapy & a few others recommended by my specialist:
--Monolaurin
--Propolis 1-2 pills
May be cycled according to immune stimulation. From Nanna1's Immune Competence Therapy:
--AHCC 1-4 pills
--Beta-glucans 1g
--Andrographis 100mg (do not exceed, Monolaruin is already a potent antibiotic)
--Liposomal Vitamin C 1-2g
--Zinc 50mg
--Quercetin 2g
--Mega IgG2000 (biotoxin binder – take with food) 2-4x - optional, i took it at the time, so i'm listing it here, i doubt it would effect the monolaurin but i could be wrong.
--MegaSpore probiotic 1-2/d
-
I think it’s possible the monolaurin works in combination with other immune supplements. I tried testing it again the other day and didn’t really notice much impact on symptoms. I think something in Nanna1’s immune competence therapy or something in my additional supplements like Propolis has a synergistic effect with the monolaurin to inhibit POIS symptoms. It could be the case with biofilm disruptors, then enabling the monolaurin to penetrate. If anyone wants to experiment with monolaurin, an you have the money to do so, I would suggest the following complimentary supplements, most of which are from Nanna1's Immune Competence Therapy & a few others recommended by my specialist:
--Monolaurin
--Propolis 1-2 pills
May be cycled according to immune stimulation. From Nanna1's Immune Competence Therapy:
--AHCC 1-4 pills
--Beta-glucans 1g
--Andrographis 100mg (do not exceed, Monolaruin is already a potent antibiotic)
--Liposomal Vitamin C 1-2g
--Zinc 50mg
--Quercetin 2g
--Mega IgG2000 (biotoxin binder – take with food) 2-4x - optional, i took it at the time, so i'm listing it here, i doubt it would effect the monolaurin but i could be wrong.
--MegaSpore probiotic 1-2/d
It is really interesting that you mention monolaurin in conjunction with propolis. In my case the most significant benefit from both was a reduction of rhinitis. I have taken monolaurin for about a week, but I couldn’t notice much else otherwise. Maybe there was some reduction of dysuria as well. I have also tested some generic propolis recently, but it only had a lesser effect on rhinitis. However of all the supplements I have taken so far the Brazilian bee propolis trio was probably the most superior in the management of rhinitis. It did not solve my POIS in its entirety, but it is still a rather nice supplement. For this reason I would really recommend Brazilian bee propolis over a generic kind of propolis, though in my experience there is also a great variability between different brands, so one really needs to try many of them just to find one that works better.
By the way I have also taken SAM-e for about two weeks. There was a clear benefit on gut issues, which was about moderate in the beginning, but became a little less so later. However it did not help with depression or bloodshot eyes. It also did not resolve food sensitivities, as I could clearly feel the punch of POIS mimetics.
-
I think it’s possible the monolaurin works in combination with other immune supplements. I tried testing it again the other day and didn’t really notice much impact on symptoms. I think something in Nanna1’s immune competence therapy or something in my additional supplements like Propolis has a synergistic effect with the monolaurin to inhibit POIS symptoms. It could be the case with biofilm disruptors, then enabling the monolaurin to penetrate. If anyone wants to experiment with monolaurin, an you have the money to do so, I would suggest the following complimentary supplements, most of which are from Nanna1's Immune Competence Therapy & a few others recommended by my specialist:
--Monolaurin
--Propolis 1-2 pills
May be cycled according to immune stimulation. From Nanna1's Immune Competence Therapy:
--AHCC 1-4 pills
--Beta-glucans 1g
--Andrographis 100mg (do not exceed, Monolaruin is already a potent antibiotic)
--Liposomal Vitamin C 1-2g
--Zinc 50mg
--Quercetin 2g
--Mega IgG2000 (biotoxin binder – take with food) 2-4x - optional, i took it at the time, so i'm listing it here, i doubt it would effect the monolaurin but i could be wrong.
--MegaSpore probiotic 1-2/d
It is really interesting that you mention monolaurin in conjunction with propolis. In my case the most significant benefit from both was a reduction of rhinitis. I have taken monolaurin for about a week, but I couldn’t notice much else otherwise. Maybe there was some reduction of dysuria as well. I have also tested some generic propolis recently, but it only had a lesser effect on rhinitis. However of all the supplements I have taken so far the Brazilian bee propolis trio was probably the most superior in the management of rhinitis. It did not solve my POIS in its entirety, but it is still a rather nice supplement. For this reason I would really recommend Brazilian bee propolis over a generic kind of propolis, though in my experience there is also a great variability between different brands, so one really needs to try many of them just to find one that works better.
By the way I have also taken SAM-e for about two weeks. There was a clear benefit on gut issues, which was about moderate in the beginning, but became a little less so later. However it did not help with depression or bloodshot eyes. It also did not resolve food sensitivities, as I could clearly feel the punch of POIS mimetics.
Thanks for sharing your experience of Brazillian bee propolis. I will have to look into that! I have often wondered about the quality of the generic propolis I have been taking from my local chemist warehouse lol
I will suggest one thing to you. You say SAM-e helped you a bit for gut issues at the beginning, but became less effective later on. I would suggest this is due to over-methylation from excess SAM-e. At the beginning, your SAM-e levels were most likely very depleted. Infections are known to deplete methyl groups (SAM-e.) There is a strong chance POIS is some kind of infection. Taking SAM-e did wonders for you until your body had enough methyl groups. Then the SAM-e pushed you into a state of over-methylation, and the original benefits from SAM-e deminished. Taking niacin 50mg will flush methyl groups, essentially doing the opposite of SAM-e. The trick would be to strike the correct balance of SAM-e. You may only need to supplement it once every 2nd day to prevent going into over-methylation. If you do go into over-methylation, take niacin 50mg every 1-2 hours until the original benefits from the SAM-e return.
This has at least been true for me in my direct experience in getting Nanna1's POIS Cascade stack to work again.
-
Update 26/01/24. No POIS or food sensitivity when SAM-e is balanced. I've added 20,000iu D3 w/ K2 to my animal-based protocol seeing as how important that has been for my POIS and something I took for granted years ago when I was out in the sun all day. I eat animal-based throughout the day in case the SAM-e becomes unbalanced. I am still in the process of determining the most ideal SAM-e dosage and frequency for maintaining long-term balance.
Original Animal-Based Protocol:
--Paul Saladino’s Animal-Based Diet (Strictest Tier)
--Raw garlic ¼ clove, mince & sit for 5 mins before ingesting, take every 6 hrs
--Fenugreek 1-2g, take every 6 hrs
--Red meat 200-300g & eggs 2-3 per day
--Vitamin D3 20,000iu & K2 200mcg
--Nature’s Own Ultra B 150 Forte 1-2 per day. (Note: May interfere with SAM-e balance, especially nicotinamide. Long-term high-dose folic acid supplementation may also be of mild concern. Exploring other moderately dosed B complex’s with folinic acid. I am yet to find one that makes me feel as good as this one tho.)
POIS Cascade Stack (Leaks symptoms when SAM-e is unbalanced. No symptoms - no POIS or food sensitivities when SAM-e is balanced.):
--SAM-e 200mg active, taken on empty stomach
Find the right dosage frequency that maintains SAM-e balance long-term (neither under nor over-methylation):
1. SAM-e 200mg 5 days on, 2 off, repeat
2. SAM-e 200mg 4 days on, 1 off
3. Alternatively, niacin 50mg every 1-2 hours will fix over-methylation (too much SAM-e), while taking more SAM-e will fix under-methylation (too little SAM-e)
--Choline (methyl donor) as 4 eggs
If I have zero social events planned for the evening:
1. Re-feed window (in the evening) for non-Animal-Based carbs and other nutrient rich wholefoods which would typically cause symptoms when SAM-e isn’t balanced i.e., white rice, vegetables, and nuts.
2. Fix any potential symptoms with a good night's sleep & supplementation (Niacin 50mg every 1-2 hours till feeling balanced, or SAM-e 200mg every 1-2 hours till feeling balanced – can also be taken the next morning.)
Beneficial Supplements to Cycle &/or Double Check for Negative Symptoms:
--EPA & DHA fish oil 1-2g and/or cod liver oil 1-2g
--Magnesium Citrate 300-400mg
Next step is to refocus on the immune stack which is a potential cure. Going to also post a video update on all of this soon.
-
Thanks for sharing your experience of Brazillian bee propolis. I will have to look into that! I have often wondered about the quality of the generic propolis I have been taking from my local chemist warehouse lol
I will suggest one thing to you. You say SAM-e helped you a bit for gut issues at the beginning, but became less effective later on. I would suggest this is due to over-methylation from excess SAM-e. At the beginning, your SAM-e levels were most likely very depleted. Infections are known to deplete methyl groups (SAM-e.) There is a strong chance POIS is some kind of infection. Taking SAM-e did wonders for you until your body had enough methyl groups. Then the SAM-e pushed you into a state of over-methylation, and the original benefits from SAM-e deminished. Taking niacin 50mg will flush methyl groups, essentially doing the opposite of SAM-e. The trick would be to strike the correct balance of SAM-e. You may only need to supplement it once every 2nd day to prevent going into over-methylation. If you do go into over-methylation, take niacin 50mg every 1-2 hours until the original benefits from the SAM-e return.
This has at least been true for me in my direct experience in getting Nanna1's POIS Cascade stack to work again.
Actually I tested niacin just the other day and it turned out to be a pleasant surprise. I have already taken a bigger box of niacinamide (500 mg/per pill), but it was not particularly useful. Now I bought the cheapest niacin (10 mg/per pill) of the same brand, thus probably about the same quality. I took 10, 20 and 30 mg of niacin along a day and had an O in the evening. Interestingly the first pill of niacin provided about the same benefit as a 500 mg of niacinamide pill would at least in the beginning. The second dose felt better and the third dose was the best. I took the last dose about an hour before the actual ejaculation. Now here comes the odd thing as on neither of these occasion occurred any flushing whatsoever and niacin was clearly useful regardless. The timing also does not work like for others as I was actually feeling a little worse after the O and niacin clearly follows the 6-7 hour rule as practically everything that I had taken so far. I was beginning to feel myself slightly better before going to bed which was about 3 hours after the last dose. However it was when I woke up during the night (7-8 hours after last dose) that I was feeling myself really well. It had a clear anti-depressive effect and by the light of the flashlight I could feel that even my photophobia was reduced, which hardly ever happens otherwise. In the morning (about 12 hours after the last dose) I was feeling myself a little worse and more like on a chronic morning, but even so it was still much better than I would expect on a first day. I am really glad that niacin is so useful and will surely implement it in a stack later. Later I may also try the 500 mg variety, but I don’t really want to take such a huge dose on a daily basis. I guess 1 mg/kg could be a safe dose, which is close to the amount I took on this occasion. I can only hope that its effectiveness will not plummet like with many of the other supplements that I had taken before, though based on others’ posts it is not likely.
At the moment I can’t say anything about synergies and I don’t know if there is any preference in taking SAM-e over other stuff as many of them provided a similar benefit (e.g. black cumin, cat’s claw etc.) with a cheaper price. Actually the current test also involved taking my usual daily and night stack which may have provided some synergies. The nightly stack involves resveratrol, fenugreek, garlic pills and some other stuff, but on other days they weren’t particularly effective otherwise.
By the way resveratrol acts as a DNMT1 and HDAC1 inhibitor and vitamin D as a DNMT1 inhibitor, thus they should reduce methylation. However this may also lead to vitamin D resistance.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4061.msg43890#msg43890
(ctrl+f: resveratrol or vitamin D)
Furthermore I have been taking a combination of fenugreek and garlic pills for about 5 month now, but they have never done anything significant. I bought two new brands of each besides the ones I had already tried, but no combination was any different. I have to note that I have only taken small doses though aside from the test period. The reason I take them is mostly a belief that they are generally healthy and not because they do any actual change. Currently I am testing several new stuff, but later I am going to gradually incorporate new supplements in the stack and then I may be able to tell more about niacin, SAM-e and the other stuff we had discussed previously.
-
Little update 3/02/24. So it appears I have fixed the over-methylation problem by supplementing supporting B complex vitamins and removing nicotinamide. I stopped taking my B complex as it contained nicotinamide, known to remove methyl groups at high enough dosages, which isn't great given SAMe is part of this method. So I decided to buy the individual nutrients from the B complex so I could manipulate and control them better, seeing as the B complex always made me feel amazing. I've made a few different changes, so I don't entirely know what's responsible, apart from the fact that I don't seem to over-methylate anymore (or at least experience symptoms when taking too much SAMe), and seem to tolerate SAMe well, even 3x per day, while the method continues to work. It may also be that I've increased the dosage of SAMe cofactors, and perhaps I became deficient in them. I noticed significant improvement after increasing folic acid and B6, dosing twice a day.
This is currently what I'm taking:
Twice daily:
--SAMe 200mg 1-2x
--Methyl B12 1000mcg sublingual 1-2x
--Folic acid 1-2mg
--4 eggs worth of choline or equivalent via Choline Bitartrate
--B1 250mg
--B2 100mg
--B6 100mg [must be careful of toxicity]
--D3 20,000iu with K2 200mcg minimum, ideally more K2 (D3 dosed once per day with fatty meal)
—I will also mention red meat and eggs continue to make me feel amazing. I definitely prefer eggs as my choline source compared to choline bitartrate.
And these are the current tangible results:
--Virtually zero POIS symptoms. Can ejaculate as much as I want, and wake up feeling fresh the next day. Hasn't been a problem for a long time. My main focus these days are food sensitivities.
--Extremely improved food sensitivities. At times, virtually zero food sensitivity symptoms. Something I am still testing, and testing over the long haul. For example, I've eaten an entire sourdough pizza and ejaculated in the same night, and woken up with zero symptoms. I've eaten subway footlongs with gluten bread, which would normally (before this stack) cause an absolute outrage of symptoms like social anxiety, fatigue, depression, anxiety, brainfog, etc, and gone back to work, socialise, and feel great. I am still yet to go for long periods of time with zero symptoms after eating food, so the food sensitivity part is still a work in progress. But compared to where I've come from, it's a tremendous improvement nonetheless.
--I still get a small to moderate amount of muscle weakness from food sensitivities. Currently investigating whether adding Omega-3 can improve this by inhibiting AA cascade (as mentioned in Nanna1s theory + is a well known inflammatory pathway.) Also note, I work in a warehouse picking produce all day long, so this may also contribute to fatigue. Sometimes I pick heavy items like cases of 1kg carrots, pumpkin, etc. But that equally gives you a sense of how far I've come along. I used to get extreme fatigue from this condition, especially while eating a normal diet.
--I still get body aches which come and go, and appear at random parts of my body all over. Sometimes they can be intense, and definitely get worst when I deviate off an animal-based diet.
I'm still tinkering with this, but it's safe to say the SAM-e and methylation stack in general has worked for a while now (since discovering most of this from Nanna1.) I am just tinkering with the details to make it work perfectly. This is obviously bound to change as I make adjustments. Safe to say I totally recommend them to others here to experiment and play around with. I no longer even take raw garlic or fenugreek as this stack is so effective at removing all symptoms when it's functioning at it's prime.
Also a note on B vits, there are different kinds. Active i.e. methyl B12, methylfolate, and non-active i.e., cyanocobalamin (B12), folic acid. Depending on your genes, current methylation status, nutrients, and other factors, your body will prefer either active or non-active B vitamins. It's important to play around with this! Don't just assume after 1 B complex that it isn't for you because it gave you weird symptoms. Chances are 1 or 2 ingredients threw you out, while the others your body benefited from. Also play around with dosages. For a while I was taking no more than 0.5mg of folic acid per day. After discovering how important folate is for the methylation cycle, I realised I completely overlooked how important folate was, and after increasing the dosage, have felt a huge improvement.
Note: Not a doctor. Just a 23 year old dude, who's lived with this for about 6-7 years, done a mega tonne of self-experimentation and a decent amount of research. Just sharing what has worked for me, and reporting back here. I used to experience chronically intense anxiety, fatigue, body aches, social anxiety, weakness, brainfog, where the symptoms were so severe at one point I felt like I was going to get schizophrenia (my auditory thoughts became so loud from the chronic inflammation.) I talk about this on my YouTube channel.
-
Continuing to have some really profound results on the methylation stack. Virtually zero POIS symptoms or food sensitivity symptoms.
In the past I spoke about the glycine buffer system, which would prevent over-methylation from excess SAM-e. When taking methyl donors of any kind, you are bound to take in more than what you currently need. If your buffer system isn't working, you will get a slew of over-methylation symptoms, which will actually trigger POIS symptoms. When your buffer system is working, your body will buffer the excess, prevent you from over-methylating, and store the excess for later retrieval when it needs it. So, after attempting supplementation of Vitamin A and glycine (two nutrients needed for the buffer system), I felt worse. It actually inhibited the SAM-e from working and I couldn't understand why.
It wasn't until I increased my folate supplementation that things actually begun working very smoothly. So in hindsight I actually believe I was deficient or very low in folate. Folate actually acts as the off-switch for the methyl-buffer system (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb-_o8dBwbI), which would explain why glycine and vitamin A inhibited the SAM-e from working, as there was not enough folate to turn the system off when it no longer needed to buffer methyl groups.
POIS inflammation depletes methyl groups. POIS mental symptoms are a result of depleted neurotransmitters, from depleted levels of SAMe. SAMe (S-Adenosyl-L-methionine) is required for the brain to synthesize the neurotransmitters norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin (https://www.researchgate.net/figure/S-Adenosyl-L-methionine-SAMe-and-synthesis-of-neurotransmitters-The-neurotransmitter_fig2_11044923#:~:text=SAMe%20(S%2DAdenosyl%2DL,Mischoulon%20%26%20Fava%2C%202002)%20.). SAMe is a universal methyl group donor. In addition to SAM-e, methyl B12, methylfolate (if tolerated), choline, and TMG (trimethylglycine) are all methyl donors, and should help to replace lost methyl groups from POIS, and thus help to fix POIS mental symptoms.
The catch is that you are working within a complex system which depends on many other nutrients to work properly. You also have different subtypes of nutrient supplementation (there are 3 main types of folate for example - folic acid, folinic acid, and methylfolate). For each nutrient, you must find the type and dosage that works well for you. Because we're all different, the chances are our methylation stacks will be slightly different. They need to be personalised.
With that being said, I would suggest all POIS sufferers to play around with the following supplements, which make up the methylation stack. You need to listen to your body, see what subtype of nutrients it likes, and at what dosages. As mentioned earlier, specific nutrients rely on adequate status of other nutrients to function properly. So it's possible that when you initially introduce certain supplements (SAM-e) for example, you may experience side-effects until you adequately satisfy it's co-factors.
Methylation Stack:
1. Important Methyl Cycle Nutrients: B12, Folate, B6, & Choline
2. Methyl Buffer System Nutrients: Glycine, Vitamin A, & Folate (which would be covered in step 1)
3. Extra Methylation Support for POIS: SAM-e, TMG, & Creatine
+ Vitamin D3 & K2. Immune issues always deplete D3, which is why many here improve when levels are optimal. Adequate K2 prevents D3 calcification side-effects. Vitamin A also gets depleted from immune problems. Another reason to supplement or at least ensure you have adequate amounts of it. Every immune event taxes both Vitamin A and Vitamin D. Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin E and K2, all support fat-soluble vitamins. You must take fat-soluble vitamins with a fatty meal for absorption. You can learn more about this from Chris Masterjohn's website, specifically "Nutrition and Immunity Masterclass: Vitamins and Minerals in Immunity"
You may also not need to supplement everything listed here. For example, you may already have adequate vitamin A status, or TMG makes you feel funny while your body likes SAMe and other methyl donors. Choline is more important when you have low B12 and/or folate. SAM-e requires adequate folate and B12 levels, so if your body feels good after having choline, this may be a sign that you have low B12 and/or folate.
Methylation & Herpes Induced POIS:
Methyl-groups act as the off-switch for herpes virus. (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2683.msg23772#msg23772)
Note: None of this constitutes as medical advice. I am not a doctor. Consult your medical specialists for medical advise. I am just sharing information from what I have learnt mostly from Chris Masterjohn Phd, which has worked very well for me in my direct experience.
-
Ciao Guerriero, sono il ragazzo che ti ha scritto recentemente su youtube sotto il tuo ultimo video. Bro io ho provato a prendere l aglio come hai detto tu ma mi ha lasciato comunque un cattivo alito per diverse ore nonostante ho mangiato e bevuto altre cose, ? difficile da mandare gi? per il suo sgradevole sapore, forse anche perch? avevo poco miele. Tu come fai a prenderlo senza alcuna difficolt? e senza che ti lasci un cattivo odore?
-
Ciao Guerriero, sono il ragazzo che ti ha scritto recentemente su youtube sotto il tuo ultimo video. Bro io ho provato a prendere l aglio come hai detto tu ma mi ha lasciato comunque un cattivo alito per diverse ore nonostante ho mangiato e bevuto altre cose, ? difficile da mandare gi? per il suo sgradevole sapore, forse anche perch? avevo poco miele. Tu come fai a prenderlo senza alcuna difficolt? e senza che ti lasci un cattivo odore?
English translation:
"Hi Warrior, I'm the guy who wrote to you recently on YouTube under your latest video. Bro, I tried taking garlic like you said but it still left me with bad breath for several hours even though I ate and drank other things, ? difficult to swallow? for its unpleasant taste, perhaps also because? I had little honey. How do you take it without any difficulty? and without leaving a bad smell?"
Per favore, Andre, utilizza il traduttore online di Google ( https://translate.google.com/ ) per fornire una versione inglese del tuo messaggio scritta in italiano, perché questo è un forum inglese. Ci vogliono solo pochi secondi per copiare il tuo testo in italiano, poi copia la versione in inglese e incollala qui. Grazie per la collaborazione !
Please, Andre, use Google online translator ( https://translate.google.com/ (https://translate.google.com/) ) to provide an English version of your message written in Italian, because this is an English forum. It takes only a few seconds to copy your Italian text, then copy the English version and paste it here. Thank you for your cooperation
-
Please, Andre, use Google online translator…
Thank you, Quantum!
-
I saw your video on youtube. I'm glad you are talking about this and I'm happy that you are making progress with overcoming pois.
-
Ciao Guerriero, sono il ragazzo che ti ha scritto recentemente su youtube sotto il tuo ultimo video. Bro io ho provato a prendere l aglio come hai detto tu ma mi ha lasciato comunque un cattivo alito per diverse ore nonostante ho mangiato e bevuto altre cose, ? difficile da mandare gi? per il suo sgradevole sapore, forse anche perch? avevo poco miele. Tu come fai a prenderlo senza alcuna difficolt? e senza che ti lasci un cattivo odore?
English translation:
"Hi Warrior, I'm the guy who wrote to you recently on YouTube under your latest video. Bro, I tried taking garlic like you said but it still left me with bad breath for several hours even though I ate and drank other things, ? difficult to swallow? for its unpleasant taste, perhaps also because? I had little honey. How do you take it without any difficulty? and without leaving a bad smell?"
Per favore, Andre, utilizza il traduttore online di Google ( https://translate.google.com/ ) per fornire una versione inglese del tuo messaggio scritta in italiano, perché questo è un forum inglese. Ci vogliono solo pochi secondi per copiare il tuo testo in italiano, poi copia la versione in inglese e incollala qui. Grazie per la collaborazione !
Please, Andre, use Google online translator ( https://translate.google.com/ (https://translate.google.com/) ) to provide an English version of your message written in Italian, because this is an English forum. It takes only a few seconds to copy your Italian text, then copy the English version and paste it here. Thank you for your cooperation
Ciao Guerriero, sono il ragazzo che ti ha scritto recentemente su youtube sotto il tuo ultimo video. Bro io ho provato a prendere l aglio come hai detto tu ma mi ha lasciato comunque un cattivo alito per diverse ore nonostante ho mangiato e bevuto altre cose, ? difficile da mandare gi? per il suo sgradevole sapore, forse anche perch? avevo poco miele. Tu come fai a prenderlo senza alcuna difficolt? e senza che ti lasci un cattivo odore?
Hi Andre! I no longer take raw garlic, but when I did, this is how I would do it:
1) Cut 1/3 of a garlic clove, a relatively small piece you are comfortable ingesting.
2) Mince that small piece.
3) Let it sit for 5 minutes minimum for allicin to form.
4) Cover in a dollop of honey and swallow with a glass of milk.
That should prevent most of the bad taste or breath. The honey will coat the garlic and the cream from the milk will prevent any garlic flavour from really penetrating your mouth.
-
I do not believe POIS is caused by over or under methylation. But I do believe POIS severely depletes the methylation cycle, which exacerbates ALL symptoms, especially mental symptoms.
I believe the root cause of POIS is some kind of infection, virus, pathogen, or gut microbiome problem.
-
I had elevated B6, B9, B12. Those are mentioned in methylation cycles. Do you know if this state could tell me something about under/over methylation?
-
I had elevated B6, B9, B12. Those are mentioned in methylation cycles. Do you know if this state could tell me something about under/over methylation?
Hmmm to be honest it’s such a complicated topic, I don’t think from that alone you could make an educated opinion, or maybe you can, but it's definitely outside of my current understanding.
An easy way to tell if you’re under or over methylated is to take methyl donors and see if you feel better. But even then this isn’t 100% decesive, for example, I don’t really feel great after Methylfolate and yet I have been classically under methylated from POIS. I know this because of how amazing SAM-e was (and still is) for me. It is quite common for people to react to Methylfolate though.
You could also take niacin or glycine and if you feel better after taking them, that would probably imply your over methylated. If you feel worst, then you are probably under-methylated. Niacin and glycine are both used to remove excess methyl groups.
-
Update on my methylation stack & results:
Currently, as it sits, I continue to experience anywhere between 80 to 100% clearing of food sensitivity symptoms depending on the day and meal. Methylation nutrients have undoubtedly been a second breakthrough in my POIS journey for improving symptoms across the board. I can tolerate non-animal-based foods much better than before.
When I do get 5-20% symptoms, these will manifest as the following shortly after eating: throat fatigue, muscle weakness, tensions in the face, and light to moderate mood disturbances i.e., becoming less socially fluent for a period of time. These are typical POIS-like symptoms from eating. How weird!
My food sensitivities also improve as time goes on abstaining. Such a weird mechanism.
Animal-based continues to be the least inflammatory diet across the board, assuming I am eating enough nutrients (eggs, organs, meat, etc.) My problem is that I have a very labour intensive job, and just eating fruit for carbohydrates is hardly realistic. But if I didn't have such high energy requirements and a fast motabolism (which will change when I get a new job), eating strict animal-based would still be most ideal. The increased tolerance to normal foods tho is very welcome and a big improvement.
I have simplified a lot of my methylation stack:
--SAM-e
--B complex
--Extra folic acid if needed
--Choline in the form of 3-6 eggs
--Creatine
--Niacin if over methylated
I'm still tinkering with things and finding the right balance. I do not take glycine or any other buffer nutrients. I found in the end glycine didn't really work all that well for me. Neither does methylfolate or TMG. I simply feel better on the synthetic form of folate - folic acid. If you have MTHFR gene variant, you may need to take methylfolate rather than the synthetic form.
Also on another note, can't wait to explore immune nutrients very soon. I think they have big potential for curing POIS or at the very least, improving symptoms even further, creating more security etc. Propolis, monolaurin, AHCC, shrooms, etc def had some beneficial effect on my POIS when I was taking them. But I paused all of that to focus exclusively on optimising methylation so I could extract as much juice from methylation nutrients as possible.
-
Here's my basic immune stack that I'm going to be exploring & experimenting with:
Immune/anti-pathogen stack:
—Vitamin D3 [test & supplement accordingly] 5000iu-20,000iu depending on levels, take w/ K2 to prevent calcification risk 100-1000mcg
—Zinc [test & supplement accordingly] 50mg every 2-3 days if not testing
—Fenugreek 1-2g
—Raw garlic, quarter a clove minced, sit for 5 minutes
—Propolis 1-3g
—[AHCC](https://www.amazon.com/Premium-AHCC-Complex-ImmunoComplex-Andrographis/dp/B00H4GXZUU/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=ahcc&qid=1575303019&sr=8-7) 1-3g
—Monolaurin 1-6g
—Andrographis 200-400mg
—Beta-glucans 1g
—Vitamin C 0.5g [ideally liposomal, but pretty certain I don’t tolerate it well]
—Cordyceps from [Oriveda](https://www.oriveda.store/cordyceps) [must be Oriveda brand or similar to ensure stringent high-quality which does appear to be a problem when it comes to selecting medicinal mushrooms.] [Mushroom immune formula](https://www.oriveda.store/show_iframe_component/18956024?source=live_site#!/CCCE-r-Immune-formula/p/359696065/category=0) also looks interesting.
—Glutathione
—Magnesium
I already know that something interesting is going on between the Propolis, Monolaurin, Andrographis, and AHCC. I think it's possible that they work synergistically to inhibit POIS. May have something to do with biofilm disruption.
Two main purposes behind this stack:
1) Potentially curing POIS once and for all
2) At the very least, improving symptoms across the board while I am on them. I have already proven this to be the case in the past but have not identified what exact supplement is responsible as I believe they work together.
-
** Update to my methylation stack **
So as it sits, I no longer need SAM-e. My body's methyl groups have clearly been adequately replenished from past SAM-e supplementation and have so for quite a while. I know this for a few reasons:
1) I got B12, folate, and B6 tested. B12 and folate have both come back high. Still waiting on B6, but will be surprised if this doesn't return a similar result. Thus SAM-e co-factors are fully satisfied.
2) Whenever I take SAM-e these days, I generally feel worse or feel like I just didn't need it. There was no significant change after taking the SAM-e, or if there is, I actually feel worst i.e., more anhedonia. This is easily fixed by taking my B complex, but just goes to show my body no longer needs the SAM-e as of right now. This was also recently tested after at least 4 days of taking a break from the SAM-e.
So currently my methylation stack is just limited to the following:
One to two times per day:
--Eggs 2x
--Red meat 200-400g
--B complex (Nature's Own Ultra B 150 Forte)
--As my methyl groups have been severely depleted from POIS in the past, I will do occasional checks to see if I benefit from supplementing SAM-e. It's always possible the body's supply of methyl groups may fall behind over time from the POIS inflammation. I will check again in 2-4 weeks time.
My food sensitivities & POIS have maintained a permanent improvement in symptoms.
Animal-based continues to be the most trustworthy and reliable diet for me until I cure POIS, but I can confidently say methylation nutrients have permanently improved my food sensitivities and POIS overall. It just isn't at a level where I could eat non animal-based foods at every meal and expect to be at my best.
I have also been on my immune stack for over a week now. I believe that is also having a beneficial effect overall on reducing symptoms. I'm excited to see the potential fruit of this labour down the track.
I am also currently exploring trace minerals. The methylation cycle is complicated and works with hundreds of different minerals and nutrients far beyond the methylation big dawg's B12, folate, B6, etc... If you have certain trace minerals or nutrient deficiencies, it will not operate at its prime. Taken from Chris Masterjohn:
Many other nutrients are needed in the background to keep the methylation system operating smoothly. These include thiamin (vitamin B1), niacin (vitamin B3), pyridoxal (vitamin B6), vitamin A, and a lot of the minerals: iron, phosphorus, sulfur, magnesium, potassium, zinc, and possibly cobalt. This protocol will operate most effectively when you are meeting your needs for all of your essential vitamins, minerals, and fatty acids, as well as your needs for protein, carbohydrate, fat, and calories.
Doesn't take a genius to figure out that any sort of nutrient deficiencies will make POIS worse, across the board. As a community, we should normalise getting comprehensive nutritional testing to be foundational. D3, zinc, magnesium, copper, and lots more, etc are all SO IMPORTANT for many functions of the body, especially those that play key roles in the immune system. We already know that POIS takes a big toll on the immune system.
-
How do you respond to histamine rich foods? Do you think that is playing a role?
The Clinical and Psychopathological Implications in the Forms of Hyperhistaminosis (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Giulio-Perrotta/publication/344428782_The_Clinical_and_Psychopathological_Implications_in_the_Forms_of_Hyperhistaminosis/links/5f745713299bf1b53e003726/The-Clinical-and-Psychopathological-Implications-in-the-Forms-of-Hyperhistaminosis.pdf)
"HNMT catalyzes the movement of a methyl group from SAM, which is one of the major donors of methyl groups in our metabolism, to histamine, transforming it into N-amethystine; however, if you are a carrier of MHTFR polymorphisms, the production of SAM-E will be significantly reduced, and with it the availability of substrate necessary for the degradation of histamine itself."
-
How do you respond to histamine rich foods? Do you think that is playing a role?
The Clinical and Psychopathological Implications in the Forms of Hyperhistaminosis (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Giulio-Perrotta/publication/344428782_The_Clinical_and_Psychopathological_Implications_in_the_Forms_of_Hyperhistaminosis/links/5f745713299bf1b53e003726/The-Clinical-and-Psychopathological-Implications-in-the-Forms-of-Hyperhistaminosis.pdf)
"HNMT catalyzes the movement of a methyl group from SAM, which is one of the major donors of methyl groups in our metabolism, to histamine, transforming it into N-amethystine; however, if you are a carrier of MHTFR polymorphisms, the production of SAM-E will be significantly reduced, and with it the availability of substrate necessary for the degradation of histamine itself."
No difference whatsoever. Tested this with beef mince, kefir, sauerkraut etc back in the day. I feel no difference between that and non fermented or aged foods.
I do not believe my condition has anything to do with problems regarding histamine.
-
How do you respond to histamine rich foods? Do you think that is playing a role?
The Clinical and Psychopathological Implications in the Forms of Hyperhistaminosis (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Giulio-Perrotta/publication/344428782_The_Clinical_and_Psychopathological_Implications_in_the_Forms_of_Hyperhistaminosis/links/5f745713299bf1b53e003726/The-Clinical-and-Psychopathological-Implications-in-the-Forms-of-Hyperhistaminosis.pdf)
"HNMT catalyzes the movement of a methyl group from SAM, which is one of the major donors of methyl groups in our metabolism, to histamine, transforming it into N-amethystine; however, if you are a carrier of MHTFR polymorphisms, the production of SAM-E will be significantly reduced, and with it the availability of substrate necessary for the degradation of histamine itself."
I want to say as well, methylation is so incredibly complicated. Who knows exactly what it’s doing to fix or improve POIS symptoms, but all we know is that it certainly does quite commonly.
Even in this past week, we have seen two other posts on the POIS subreddit responding very well to methylation nutrients.
If a POISer has a significant MTHFR mutation, then they may have low folate and thus would benefit from testing methylfolate first.
AFAIK, the body utilises two main pathways for methylation:
1) B12 & folate dependent (you need adequate status of both nutrients for this pathway to work)
2) choline (if B12 or folate is low, then body will switch to choline pathway)
Ideally you have adequate status of all nutrients B12, folate, choline, for optimal functioning.
Those that respond to choline with an improvement with POIS symptoms may have a folate or B12 deficiency.
-
Upon sensing that I am low on minerals, I have run some bloods and magnesium serum has come back low. My mag has also been low in the past, confirmed by RBC.
Since increasing magnesium dosage, my sensitivies appear to be improving further. I have also added Shilajit - but am still experimenting with this one.
Any kind of major nutrient deficiency will undoubtedly make POIS worst. Magnesium, D3, zinc, copper, iron, selenium, B vitamins, etc.
-
Hi warrior, how's your immune stack therapy going? Did you only get the cordyceps from the first link? Then I wanted to know, have you already taken liposomal vitamin C and intravenous copper? On Monday I will have an appointment with a functional medicine doctor here in Italy and I will talk to him about the methylation method and the immune stack, then I will try them too
-
Hi warrior, how's your immune stack therapy going? Did you only get the cordyceps from the first link? Then I wanted to know, have you already taken liposomal vitamin C and intravenous copper? On Monday I will have an appointment with a functional medicine doctor here in Italy and I will talk to him about the methylation method and the immune stack, then I will try them too
Hey! The immune therapy is going good. I'm still on it and plan to be on it for at least a good 6 months... the AHCC is bloody expensive tho. I still think most of my results today have come from replenishing methylation, vitamins, and mineral nutrients. That's honestly been the biggest improvement for my POIS & food sensitivities overall. I don't know if this immune stack will cure my POIS, but it's still worth the shot. I know for a fact that some things in the immune stack do offer immediate relief of POIS symptoms, but haven't exactly pin pointed which immune supplements are responsible.
These days I hardly take anything apart from a B complex, magnesium, and the immune stack. It appears I no longer need to take SAM-e as these levels are replenished and the B complex (and my diet) is enough for my body to stay on top of methylation...
My POIS recovery is honestly the best it's ever been. And my food sensitivities have improved a lot even further after taking magnesium (to replenish deficiency) and Shilajit (a natural mineral complex). Most days I am eating non animal-based foods in the evening such as sourdough, bread, kale, rocket, etc and the next day feeling good. The results do vary a little bit so I decide on a day to day basis whether I will eat non animal based foods and generally prefer to do it at night-time incase I get a bit of fog.
BTW, you mean intravenous vitamin C (taken with a small 2mg of copper before-hand, which is what Nanna1 spoke about in his immune therapy.) I haven't actually tried the vitamin C IV yet, and the liposomal vitamin C appears to give me a weird feelign the last time I tried it (it contains sunflower lecithin - a form of choline), but liposomal is apparently the best form of vitamin C apart from IV to take for maximum absorption.
-
Below is a summary of my ultimate POIS stack & approach at fixing symptoms... this stack to me is worth more than $100,000,000 because it's given me my life back.
I went from extreme anxiety, socially anxious, fatigue, brainfog levels of feeling like I was going to lose reality and become schizophrenic... for 3 days after ejaculation, but was also (in hindsight) in a permanent state of low to moderate-severe POIS-like symptoms permanently as I also had food sensitivities and was eating normal foods at the time exacerbating the inflammation.
My POIS has improved by 99%. My food sensitivities, at the time of writing this message, have dramatically improved. Most days I am now eating non animal based foods in the evening. Previously this was not possible as the symptoms would be so severe, the next day I would be in a state of moderate POIS-like symptoms even from foods like potatoes and vegetables.
POIS stack:
o Animal-based diet by Paul Saladino is best for POIS. I am now doing a lean/low-fat version of animal-based to fix my high cholesterol levels. Food sensitivities have greatly improved so I decide on a day-by-day basis whether I will eat other non-animal-based wholefoods in the evening.
o Lean red meat 200-400g & eggs 2-4
o Mussels & sardines
o B complex (specifically “Nature’s Own Ultra B 150 Forte”)
o Magnesium (magnesium malate 500mg during the day, magnesium citrate 350mg before bed)
o Shilajit (still testing brands, it seems like brand 1. Causes stomach bug but appears to be more intense, while brand 2. Works but isn’t as intense, and doesn’t cause any adverse feelings – I think the moisture content waters down the amount of Shilajit in there but its still pure. Still testing.) (explore sea moss & other mineral complex’s)
o Raw garlic & fenugreek
o SAM-e for extra methyl support (worked amazingly to replenish in the past but generally no longer needed, check in once every now & then to see if your body needs the extra support)
o Get comprehensive blood work done periodically & fix any nutrient deficiencies accordingly, especially those that play critical roles in the immune & methylation systems i.e., D3, Omega-3, zinc, copper, iron, magnesium, selenium, iodine, etc.
o Immune stack (potential cure) – AHCC, propolis, monolaurin, andrographis, beta-glucan, vitamin C, MegaSpore probiotic, IgG, quercetin, home-made kefir & sauerkraut taken w/ fibrous meal
-
Hi warrior, how's your immune stack therapy going? Did you only get the cordyceps from the first link? Then I wanted to know, have you already taken liposomal vitamin C and intravenous copper? On Monday I will have an appointment with a functional medicine doctor here in Italy and I will talk to him about the methylation method and the immune stack, then I will try them too
Hey! The immune therapy is going good. I'm still on it and plan to be on it for at least a good 6 months... the AHCC is bloody expensive tho. I still think most of my results today have come from replenishing methylation, vitamins, and mineral nutrients. That's honestly been the biggest improvement for my POIS & food sensitivities overall. I don't know if this immune stack will cure my POIS, but it's still worth the shot. I know for a fact that some things in the immune stack do offer immediate relief of POIS symptoms, but haven't exactly pin pointed which immune supplements are responsible.
These days I hardly take anything apart from a B complex, magnesium, and the immune stack. It appears I no longer need to take SAM-e as these levels are replenished and the B complex (and my diet) is enough for my body to stay on top of methylation...
My POIS recovery is honestly the best it's ever been. And my food sensitivities have improved a lot even further after taking magnesium (to replenish deficiency) and Shilajit (a natural mineral complex). Most days I am eating non animal-based foods in the evening such as sourdough, bread, kale, rocket, etc and the next day feeling good. The results do vary a little bit so I decide on a day to day basis whether I will eat non animal based foods and generally prefer to do it at night-time incase I get a bit of fog.
BTW, you mean intravenous vitamin C (taken with a small 2mg of copper before-hand, which is what Nanna1 spoke about in his immune therapy.) I haven't actually tried the vitamin C IV yet, and the liposomal vitamin C appears to give me a weird feelign the last time I tried it (it contains sunflower lecithin - a form of choline), but liposomal is apparently the best form of vitamin C apart from IV to take for maximum absorption.
I'm happy with your progress, I too now want to try the methylation thing but I still have to figure out well how to start, I however have very high vitamin b 12 like 11000 the b9 is good and also choline, I think I will start with sam e and then I will adjust accordingly with niacin vitamin a,glycine etc. Then I'll also want to start immune therapy.
Already intravenous vitamin c would be interesting to test because as nanna said it can kill bacteria. I'm also going to do some tests that I've seen you and grandma do, do you think the hhv-3 test should I do? It's supposed to be the chickenpox one and I've never had it. Now I don't remember if you had done this test but I think if one has never had chickenpox it can't be useful to find a cause of pois. What do you suggest?
As for the immune therapy, what cordyceps are you taking, the one you sent in the first link or the second one? Sorry for my English I used the translator ????
-
Hi warrior, how's your immune stack therapy going? Did you only get the cordyceps from the first link? Then I wanted to know, have you already taken liposomal vitamin C and intravenous copper? On Monday I will have an appointment with a functional medicine doctor here in Italy and I will talk to him about the methylation method and the immune stack, then I will try them too
Hey! The immune therapy is going good. I'm still on it and plan to be on it for at least a good 6 months... the AHCC is bloody expensive tho. I still think most of my results today have come from replenishing methylation, vitamins, and mineral nutrients. That's honestly been the biggest improvement for my POIS & food sensitivities overall. I don't know if this immune stack will cure my POIS, but it's still worth the shot. I know for a fact that some things in the immune stack do offer immediate relief of POIS symptoms, but haven't exactly pin pointed which immune supplements are responsible.
These days I hardly take anything apart from a B complex, magnesium, and the immune stack. It appears I no longer need to take SAM-e as these levels are replenished and the B complex (and my diet) is enough for my body to stay on top of methylation...
My POIS recovery is honestly the best it's ever been. And my food sensitivities have improved a lot even further after taking magnesium (to replenish deficiency) and Shilajit (a natural mineral complex). Most days I am eating non animal-based foods in the evening such as sourdough, bread, kale, rocket, etc and the next day feeling good. The results do vary a little bit so I decide on a day to day basis whether I will eat non animal based foods and generally prefer to do it at night-time incase I get a bit of fog.
BTW, you mean intravenous vitamin C (taken with a small 2mg of copper before-hand, which is what Nanna1 spoke about in his immune therapy.) I haven't actually tried the vitamin C IV yet, and the liposomal vitamin C appears to give me a weird feelign the last time I tried it (it contains sunflower lecithin - a form of choline), but liposomal is apparently the best form of vitamin C apart from IV to take for maximum absorption.
I'm happy with your progress, I too now want to try the methylation thing but I still have to figure out well how to start, I however have very high vitamin b 12 like 11000 the b9 is good and also choline, I think I will start with sam e and then I will adjust accordingly with niacin vitamin a,glycine etc. Then I'll also want to start immune therapy.
Already intravenous vitamin c would be interesting to test because as nanna said it can kill bacteria. I'm also going to do some tests that I've seen you and grandma do, do you think the hhv-3 test should I do? It's supposed to be the chickenpox one and I've never had it. Now I don't remember if you had done this test but I think if one has never had chickenpox it can't be useful to find a cause of pois. What do you suggest?
As for the immune therapy, what cordyceps are you taking, the one you sent in the first link or the second one? Sorry for my English I used the translator ????
Tbh testing for virus's didn't really change my perspective much. And many of those virus' are super common anyway, so even if they come back positive, it's still not really indicative a whole lot of root cause. But maybe it's still good to get done. I got most of the Herpes viruses checked.
Right now I'm not actually taking cordyceps as I haven't bought it yet. Kind of taking a break to save a bit of money. I'm also forking out what feels bit like a wasteful amount of money for AHCC. But I want to give this immune stack (which includes AHCC) a good 6 month or so chance to work in the hopes of a potential cure. If I had zero concerns of money, i wouldn't waste any time getting the cordy in addition to the AHCC. When it comes to medicinal mushrooms, brand and quality matter a lot. So getting the cordy from Oriveda and AHCC from Quality of Life is important imo, even though they cost a bomb. I've also run out of Quercetin and not sure if I can rationalise forking out more money for it. I've never noticed any differences in taking it...
So for now my immune stack consists of: AHCC, monolaurin, andrographis, propolis, beta-glucan powder, probiotic (MegaSpore probiotic), vitamin C (andrographis supplement that I take actually has zinc & vitamin C in it as well), & IgG. I've bolded the most important parts of the stack imo - these are also mostly what Nanna1 used to clear his POIS with the exclusion of propolis and monolaurin. The probiotic is for putting the good guys back in - kefir and saurkraut would be amazing additions. IgG & quercetin I was told by my specialist they're useful, although haven't really noticed much difference so I don't prioritise them as much.
I also make sure that the following nutrents are at optimal levels & supplement accordingly: D3, zinc/copper, magnesium
As a whole I've been focusing on minerals lately, so I've also been taking Shilajit (a natural mineral complex) and this has 100% had a beneficial impact on my POIS and health overall. I also try to regularlly eat lean red meat, eggs, mussels, and sardines for micronutrients. Any mineral or nutrient deficiency will bottleneck methylation and immune function. Which is why it's critical to get comprehensive nutritional testing done.
-
Hi Warrior, are you also taking the nanna1 prepack? I mean the one with caffeine, citrulline, theanine, tyrosine. Thank you for your insights.
-
Hi Warrior, are you also taking the nanna1 prepack? I mean the one with caffeine, citrulline, theanine, tyrosine. Thank you for your insights.
Nah, I don't take it. Tbh I kind of forgot about this part of the ICT. When I've taken it in the past, I noticed zero effects, apart from caffeine slightly delaying the POIS reaction maybe?
I don't really like having pre-packs as it kind of ruins the spontaneity. But it would def still be ideal to abide by this if you can make it work, seeing as this is what is included in what Nanna1 did and it seems to have worked for him in terms of curing.
-
Hi Warrior!
I was wondering if you have ever tried methionine in comparison to SAM-e. The reason I ask this is that I did a one day experiment with L-methionine (2x500mg) a few days ago and even had an O around noon. Surprisingly though POIS was unexpectedly light throughout the day. Of course I took a lot of other supplements too, but I believe methionine must have played a role as well. One of the many supplements was boron, which may have a synergistic effect with methionine in SAM-e production. I also must say that this first time experience was actually way better than with SAM-e, which is a lot more expensive though. Later I am going to test it more to see if it remains useful. In the past others have also found methionine to be useful, but I could only find one comparison in regard of their efficacy.
What I noticed from the NADH & SAMe combination is more energy and less allergies. Less scratching, itching and general signs of inflammation such as hives. I got similar results from L-methionine but it worked best when I felt energetic whereas SAMe seems to put me back on track even if I'm tired from working/exercising/whatever.
-
Hi Warrior!
I was wondering if you have ever tried methionine in comparison to SAM-e. The reason I ask this is that I did a one day experiment with L-methionine (2x500mg) a few days ago and even had an O around noon. Surprisingly though POIS was unexpectedly light throughout the day. Of course I took a lot of other supplements too, but I believe methionine must have played a role as well. One of the many supplements was boron, which may have a synergistic effect with methionine in SAM-e production. I also must say that this first time experience was actually way better than with SAM-e, which is a lot more expensive though. Later I am going to test it more to see if it remains useful. In the past others have also found methionine to be useful, but I could only find one comparison in regard of their efficacy.
What I noticed from the NADH & SAMe combination is more energy and less allergies. Less scratching, itching and general signs of inflammation such as hives. I got similar results from L-methionine but it worked best when I felt energetic whereas SAMe seems to put me back on track even if I'm tired from working/exercising/whatever.
Hey man! Thanks for sharing this.
I'm not surprised AT ALL that you've had success with L-methionine. I haven't tried methionine but I am familiar with reading up on it regarding methyl donors. It's interesting how SAM-e didn't work as well for you, but L-methionine worked better. Methylation is so complicated, no one really understands at this point exactly how it all works. The best thing we can all do is experiment (safely) with all methyl donors and see how each one feels for you.
Methionine is actually an 'essential amino acid that serves as a precursor to SAM'. How much meat/protein do you eat? Perhaps if you eat a low meat / low protein diet, you are low on methionine, which would make sense why you've responded positively to it.
Here's a list of methyl donors which, according to the theory of methylation nutrients improving POIS symptoms, these all have the potential of having a positive effect in improving POIS symptoms:
Apart from the main ones - choline, betaine, folic acid, methionine, and vitamins B6 and B12
Here's some extras - carnitine, melatonin, quercetin
This website (https://kresserinstitute.com/treating-methylation-supplementing/)refers to these as 'methylation adaptogens' which include curcumin, betanin, anthocyanins, quercetin, rosmarinic acid, lycopene, and sulforaphane.
I'm sure theres many more out there!
Minerals are also super important for methylation. So, not surprised if boron is helping - it obviously may also be helping in other ways.
-
I've taken Shilajit (mineral complex) for a few weeks, but about a week or so decided to give it a break as I felt like it was making me feel worse after taking it (very similar to too much SAM-e - anhedonia / body aches). Keep in mind tho that I was taking larger dosages than is probably recommended.
Today took it again (as a smaller dosage) and felt much better after taking it.
I think the key to Shilajit at least for me, is balance. Not to take too much and keep it to evenings/nights in case there is some negative reaction. I can say for sure though that it has had a beneficial impact on improving my sensitivities, and when I went without, I think I was slowly feeling the negative effects of not having it.
I recommend other POISers give it a go! Finding reputable brands/sources is difficult when it comes to Shilajit tho.
-
I am now working towards balancing my diet. I still prefer to eat non animal-based foods in the evening incase I do get symptoms, but since my recent addition of Shilajit (and when I went a few days without it), it is clear to me that my body is deficienct in certain key minerals that is bottlenecking the methylation and immune functions which keep my POIS condition at bay. I feel much better and can tolerate non animal based foods far better with Shilajit!
Fixing nutrient deficiencies (methyl nutrients like B vitamins, choline, SAM-e, or immune nutrients like D3, magnesium, zinc, or general nutrients like minerals, etc) have been #1 for giving my life back. It's taken me a few years to realise this, but everything that I've had long-term sustained success with has been with replenishing nutrient deficiencies: red meat, eggs, SAM-e, B complex, magnesium, D3, etc...
I'm still on this immune stack but tbh I don't know if it's going to work. I am going to stay on it for a while just to give it the best shot I can, but ultimately replenishing nutrients has been by far been the biggest bang for my buck. I share this to help others. I really think your POIS will improve by taking on that mindset of exploring what nutrients your body is missing that is making the POIS inflammation far worse than it would be if it had everything it needs. And not just having a nutrient in "range", but at an optimal level. For example, on my bloods, my magnesium was technically in range, but on the low end. When I take magnesium, I feel better! A sign that my body probably needs much more.
I also think a great long-term strategy that's worked for my food sensitivities is focusing on the foods that 1) are the most nutrient dense but also 2) you have the last reaction to... for me this is red meat, eggs, greek yoghurt, mussels, sardines, and Shilajit. Now my health has improved so much, I am getting to the level where I can more comfortably eat non animal based foods that I would typically react to. I'm now trying to eat much more vegetables, plants, dark leafy greens, nuts, etc in the evening to make up for any nutrient deficiencies on my animal-based diet. So it's been a step by step process.
I think everyone here would benefit tremendously from getting the most comprehensive nutritional testing possible. From there you can then supplement any nutrients you are deficient in or at the low end, accordingly. That way you won't be buying a bunch of useless supplements. I also think each one of us will have unique deficiencies, that create unique bottlenecks. Thus for one person, zinc might be paramount in their "POIS stack" but for another, completely pointless: purely because that first person has a zinc deficiency, of course, that will improve their immune function in response to POIS and subsequently improve symptoms... The ultimate solution (at least when it comes to minerals, vitamins, methyl nutrients, etc for POIS) is to get ALL of them in optimal range.
-
Claude AI is the most intelligent AI yet. I am going to use it to undergo a comprehensive and detailed investigation into my condition.
-
I've been experimenting a lot lately with Shilajit. It has definitely had significant improvements on my physical energy, body aches, and mental clarity. However I began noticing it was tinting my mood negatively so I decided to drop it for a period of time.
After putting some dots together, I began supplementing vitamin C and this has had a big improvement on my mood. In the past I've taken it with no difference. I only discovered this after realising how good I felt after having some orange juice, and then I was able to re-create the positive effect by taking vitamin C more directly.
It seems like vitamin C is neutralising the negative effects on my mood that it appears Shilajit is causing. Perhaps the Shilajit is stimulating detoxification, or the immune stack I've been on has been depleting my vitamin C more regularly, or there is crap in the Shilajit that needs detoxing via vitamin C. Regardless, I am going to continue testing Shilajit + Vitamin C combo.
Based off these recent experiments, vitamin C will be a new permanent addition to my main supplement stack as I have seen a very direct experience of improvement and the fact that it's water soluble. I still need to test Shilajit longer-term, but so far I have definitely observed improvements in physical strength, energy, libido, and mental. If the vitamin C can neutralise any negatve mental effects from the Shilajit, then I will take the Shilajit long-term as well.
-
Hi Warrior, I made a post about my experience with POIS, I really relate to your experience especially your 6 year journey video, please have a read, btw Im in a very unstable state right now, I think you now what I mean, so apologies if it doesn't make too much sense and theres also a lot more things that are on my mind that I did not talk about.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4517.0
Thanks
-
Hi Warrior, I made a post about my experience with POIS, I really relate to your experience especially your 6 year journey video, please have a read, btw Im in a very unstable state right now, I think you now what I mean, so apologies if it doesn't make too much sense and theres also a lot more things that are on my mind that I did not talk about.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4517.0
Thanks
Hey mate all good! I know what it's like to feel really unstable. I hope you find things that work for you soon! You have so much to explore and test from this website alone!
-
Hey mate, if you have discord please add me, my username is zehuntar
Would love to have a chat with you!
-
Hey mate, if you have discord please add me, my username is zehuntar
Would love to have a chat with you!
Hey bro these days I prefer to keep my communication about POIS strictly to this forum. Feel free to PM me here if you want a private chat but if they're generic questions also feel free to keep engaging here for the public to see. Might help other people.
-
Hey mate, if you have discord please add me, my username is zehuntar
Would love to have a chat with you!
Hey bro these days I prefer to keep my communication about POIS strictly to this forum. Feel free to PM me here if you want a private chat but if they're generic questions also feel free to keep engaging here for the public to see. Might help other people.
Cool gotcha,
well I've been doing animal-based since yesterday, tbh its been 6 weeks I've been telling everyone how I just want to lightup a BBQ and eat nothing but beef, so I've been doing that minus the BBQ, eating mostly beef and a bit of vegetables that I like, also had some cake to make sure I get enough sugar.
This morning, I woke up and went to the park and felt good, managed to do a short sprint and really it did not wore me out, idk but usually I dont even have the energy to run, I dont even chase after the bus anymore.
I have some high highs, but also I've had some lows, I feel sensitive to change, like If I go from a dark room to bright place, or cold outside to warm house, it feels like its impacting me more than before.
My hearing was very crisp, my eyesight was better (not always) liek it felt like I had my glasses on when I had them off.
The most noteworthy thing was I had a bowel movement that came out on its own, ITS BEEN 25+ YEARS THAT I HAVENT HAD THAT, I had flashbacks of when I was learning on the potty and how natural it felt to take a shit, just not forcing it out. Like you said, im probably deficient as fuck in red meat nutrients or something. My bowel movement smelt different, it didn't have that pungeant/foul and 'yeasty' smell
I have a theory of why POIS happens, I need to keep researching and refine it a bit, and I will share it with you
-
Vitamin C appears to have significantly improved:
- Fatigued throat following meals
- Strange eye symptoms
I stopped taking it for a while because I thought it was useless.
This is what I am referring to when I say strange eye symptoms:
I experience this as one of my symptoms of food sensitivity (and technically POIS)
Garlic & fenugreek seem to improve this to some degree, but I need to retest. Similar to 'eye pain', although it’s more like the eyes just don’t focus or relax normally upon 1 spot.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/17796-eye-pain. From the page: Eye pain can affect one or both eyes. You can have eye pain because of things like injuries, inflammation and infections.
Many of my food sensitivity symptoms are very infection-like: muscle weakness, throat fatigue, eye pain - hard to focus as OP says, etc.
It's an odd symptom. OP put it perfectly 'The only way I can describe it is that it's difficult to focus on one single spot.'
I did not experience this symptom on my animal-based protocol eating strict animal-based meals. Ever since I have been experimenting with methylation nutrients and eating more non animal-based foods did this symptom become more common. With that being said, since discovering methylation nutrients I haven't felt like I needed the raw garlic and fenugreek as much. I am going to take these more frequently and see if it fixes this symptom.
I also have this condition. My right eye tends to float outwards whenever I am tired and try to focus on something at close range. As in POIS mode my eyes are tired all the time this happens a lot more. Actually this symptom is called convergence insufficiency which is associated to inflammation and neurodegenerative diseases.
Convergence insufficiency (CI) is a common ocular motility disorder characterized by an insufficient amount of convergence required to achieve and maintain clear, binocular vision at near fixation.
Apart from idiopathic, CI is also associated with number of other diseases and conditions such as: myasthenia gravis, intoxications, infections, inflammations, neurodegenerative diseases (Parkinson's disease, progressive supranuclear palsy and Huntington's chorea), Parinaud syndrome, head trauma and intracranial ischemia.
Although it can be asymptomatic, people suffering from this disorder of oculomotor mobility show symptoms such as: eye strain, blurred vision or horizontal diplopia, asthenopia, reduced concentration, difficulties in performing close-up activities, headaches (mostly after long hours of reading, in the frontal or periocular region), all this leads to reduced academic performance and impairment of the quality of life. The most often, the symptomatology is more pronounced during stress, illness, or lack of sleep.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=2020&q=convergence+insufficiency+S+Pandilov%2C+I+Isjanovski+-+Macedonian+Journal+of+Anaesthesia&btnG=
Convergence insufficiency is caused by complications coronating eye movements and muscles. Instead of the eyes coming together (converging) to focus on objects close by, one or both eyes point outward.
Because the brain controls all eye movement, damage to the brain is the leading cause of convergence insufficiency. However, the exact cause of this condition remains a mystery.
The working theory among researchers is that neurogenerative disease such as Parkinson’s disease, myasthenia gravis and Alzheimer’s disease in some way cause CI.
https://www.nvisioncenters.com/conditions/convergence-insufficiency/
-
Hey mate, if you have discord please add me, my username is zehuntar
Would love to have a chat with you!
Hey bro these days I prefer to keep my communication about POIS strictly to this forum. Feel free to PM me here if you want a private chat but if they're generic questions also feel free to keep engaging here for the public to see. Might help other people.
Cool gotcha,
well I've been doing animal-based since yesterday, tbh its been 6 weeks I've been telling everyone how I just want to lightup a BBQ and eat nothing but beef, so I've been doing that minus the BBQ, eating mostly beef and a bit of vegetables that I like, also had some cake to make sure I get enough sugar.
This morning, I woke up and went to the park and felt good, managed to do a short sprint and really it did not wore me out, idk but usually I dont even have the energy to run, I dont even chase after the bus anymore.
I have some high highs, but also I've had some lows, I feel sensitive to change, like If I go from a dark room to bright place, or cold outside to warm house, it feels like its impacting me more than before.
My hearing was very crisp, my eyesight was better (not always) liek it felt like I had my glasses on when I had them off.
The most noteworthy thing was I had a bowel movement that came out on its own, ITS BEEN 25+ YEARS THAT I HAVENT HAD THAT, I had flashbacks of when I was learning on the potty and how natural it felt to take a shit, just not forcing it out. Like you said, im probably deficient as fuck in red meat nutrients or something. My bowel movement smelt different, it didn't have that pungeant/foul and 'yeasty' smell
I have a theory of why POIS happens, I need to keep researching and refine it a bit, and I will share it with you
Good. Well keep listening to your body. That's a cardinal rule of improving ones health.
-
Hi warrior,
Just curious to know these things. : :o
1.What is your progress with Nanna1's immuno therapy? Is it showing any improvement?
2.Do you still taking SAM e balanced dose? Or u stopped it because of doing Immuno therapy for 6 months?
3.What about current status of pois symptoms now? Does Nanna1s immuno therapy resolve brain fog, speech problem and concentrating problems?
Did you had muscle weakening or wasting problem, fatigue? Is there any improvement?🙏
-
Hi warrior,
Just curious to know these things. : :o
1.What is your progress with Nanna1's immuno therapy? Is it showing any improvement?
2.Do you still taking SAM e balanced dose? Or u stopped it because of doing Immuno therapy for 6 months?
3.What about current status of pois symptoms now? Does Nanna1s immuno therapy resolve brain fog, speech problem and concentrating problems?
Did you had muscle weakening or wasting problem, fatigue? Is there any improvement?????
1) I've paused the immune stack for about a week or two. It honestly felt like I was taking too many supplements and I was mildly concerned about slightly elevated liver enzymes. I resumed the stack today (it's good to cyle it anyway for reasons Nanna1 spoke about but also to make sure no supplements are giving you side-effects) and will keep an eye on liver enzymes. I might drop monolaurin dosage to 1g/d, and change to a propolis tincture. I also might just take the immune stack once per day to keep it more simple. Taking it 3 times a day is a huge hassle.
Current immune stack:
--AHCC (Quality of Life) 1g
--Cordyceps (Oriveda) 900mg
--Monolaurin 1g
--Propolis (currently taking capsules but I've been told tinctures and/or Brazillian Bee propolis is better)
--Andrographis 200mg
--Beta-glucans 1g
--Vitamin C / Zinc
--MegaSpore probiotic
--MicrobiomeLabs IgG (not completely necessary imo, I'm just taking it as I bought it after recommended by my specialist and may as well finish it as it's pricey)
Principles:
--Cycle off and on intuitively, or 5 on and 5 off
--Titrate up dosages intuitively - Nanna1 spoke about slowly increasing dosages of vitamin C, AHCC, etc and observing immune response to certain symptoms, etc. Use common sense, but this to me sounds important as well, rather than staying on 1 dosage amount.
2) I no longer take any SAM-e. Every time I try to take it, it just feels like I either didn't need it or I feel worst. My theory is that my SAM-e levels are adequately replenished and my body is staying on top of producing SAM-e from sufficient B vitamins and other methyl nutrients. I hardly ever even feel like I need the B complex. So I'm also trying to take a break from that to bring down my B vitamin levels to a more natural amount. They were significantly elevated the last time I tested them (which isn't surprising at all given I was taking the B complex daily for a while.)
3) Current state of POIS symptoms as of 20/04/24:
- POIS continues to be a fairly non-existent problem for me.
- My issues solely have to do with food sensitivities.
- My food sensitivities have improved when I compare them to how they used to be ~1 year ago, but they're still severe enough to make me not want to eat other non-AB foods frequently. Symptoms include mental noise, cognitive impairment, generalised anxiety, and occaisional anhedonia
- Fatigue and muscle weakness is definitely an element of my original POIS/food sensitivity symptoms. These symptoms are taken care of when I abide by my animal-based diet.
- No longer appear to need raw garlic or fenugreek. It doesn't seem to do much to me these days, at least for the level with where my symptoms are at. This changed since my methylation was upgraded from SAM-e. I still get food sensitivity symptoms like I talk about, but I don't think the raw garlic and fenugreek are potent enough to help them. I spoke about in the past that for garlic & fenugreek to improve my symptoms, I had to be gluten-free, which speaks to their limited capacity.
-
Hi warrior, so you no longer have the symptoms after 0 if you eat according to your diet after correcting the methylation, basically what helped you was basically correcting the methylation. well I'm trying to do it, but I've been taking SAM-E for two weeks and it makes me feel worse, maybe I should try it longer? I also noticed anhedonia, for example, right after taking it. I recently purchased niacin 50 mg and glycine 500 mg per pill. If I try again, I'll try taking glycine (although I haven't figured out how much I need to take) and niacin every half hour, like you said. But it's likely that I have good methylation because if I take SAM-E I have negative symptoms. I also have higher than normal vitamin B12 and good choline and vitamin B9, so at most I'm more of a hypermethylator than a submethylator, however if I don't take sam-e, and therefore should have adequate methylation, I still have polka dot symptoms after ejaculation, it did not resolve them. Do you think I should test other nutrients for my methylation? My methylation is probably fine but to cure my disorder I need other things
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
-
Hi warrior, so you no longer have the symptoms after 0 if you eat according to your diet after correcting the methylation, basically what helped you was basically correcting the methylation. well I'm trying to do it, but I've been taking SAM-E for two weeks and it makes me feel worse, maybe I should try it longer? I also noticed anhedonia, for example, right after taking it. I recently purchased niacin 50 mg and glycine 500 mg per pill. If I try again, I'll try taking glycine (although I haven't figured out how much I need to take) and niacin every half hour, like you said. But it's likely that I have good methylation because if I take SAM-E I have negative symptoms. I also have higher than normal vitamin B12 and good choline and vitamin B9, so at most I'm more of a hypermethylator than a submethylator, however if I don't take sam-e, and therefore should have adequate methylation, I still have polka dot symptoms after ejaculation, it did not resolve them. Do you think I should test other nutrients for my methylation? My methylation is probably fine but to cure my disorder I need other things
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
I have very little symptoms following ejaculation if I stick to my animal-based diet and protocol. I can still "feel" a difference in my state, but the difference is very negligble.
After 'topping up' my methylation with SAM-e, that difference is even more negligible.
These days, I will only really taste my classic POIS symptoms from eating non AB foods. But even then, they won't last anywhere near as long compared to my old POIS.
Sounds like you don't need SAM-e. If you don't feel good after it, don't push it. Clearly a sign your body is telling you not to take it.
It's interesting that you get polka dot symptoms following ejaculation, manifesting as POIS. I'm no doctor but again this sounds like an obvious manifestation of latent infection / immune problem, exactly what Nanna1 talks about. Nanna1 has a diagram somewhere on this, but basically the jist from my memory is that when POIS manifests, the unique symptoms each of us are experiences corresponds to the unique infections, bacteria, etc that we all have.
-
B complex, SAM-e, raw garlic, and fenugreek
These appear to no longer really be necessary to take daily. Ever since I took SAM-e, it seems to have permanently topped up my methylation and subsequently fixed brainfog and other strange symptoms I used to repeatedly experience. I don't really understand how all of this works but all I know is that in my direct experience, these just don't seem to do much for me anymore.
I'm trying to cut down on the supplements I take daily and get back to a "natural" lifestyle as much as possible. I think if you take lots of supplements, frequent bloodwork is a must because ultimately you don't know how they're effecting your insides.
I am going to establish a list for old supplements that used to serve me but are generally no longer needed.
Vitamin C seems to have improved my throat fatigue and eye symptoms, although I still clearly get this wierd single eye throbbing symptom pop up. Might be from excess B vitamins or methylation nutrients. I don't know. This is also why I'm trying to get back to as natural as possible...
-
how to use glycine and niacin?, should I use both, like first take some glycine to stop the methylation and then take niacin every 1/2 hour to eliminate excess methyl groups?
-
how to use glycine and niacin?, should I use both, like first take some glycine to stop the methylation and then take niacin every 1/2 hour to eliminate excess methyl groups?
Why do you want to take them?
Only needed if suffering from over-methylation.
I'm not a doctor but thats what is typically advised in methylation community.
-
Hey man,
good to hear you are doing better than a year ago as you say.
Can I ask, since you are quite knowledgable on this, do you know about licorice?
I read about it somewhere that it is very important for overcoming pois and had brought it but I don't feel any difference after taking it. I'm wondering what that means as it relates to my pois recovery. Oh right, wasn't it related to Cortisol?
-
Hey man,
good to hear you are doing better than a year ago as you say.
Can I ask, since you are quite knowledgable on this, do you know about licorice?
I read about it somewhere that it is very important for overcoming pois and had brought it but I don't feel any difference after taking it. I'm wondering what that means as it relates to my pois recovery. Oh right, wasn't it related to Cortisol?
Nah I haven't personally tested licorice but have heard of it being medicinal, especially for leaky gut.
If it doesn't do anything for you, it's probably not worth taking. POIS is very complex and as we've seen time and time again, we all seems to respond to different treatments.
I'm not really that knowledgeable. All I've done is fortunately found things that have worked for me and I am eternally grateful for that. I still have lots of food sensitivities that make moving on from an animal-based or carnivorous diet unfavourable.
-
So recently over the past few months, I began noticing some strange eye symptoms. Feelings of a tension in 1 eye at a time, which would oscillate between the eyes. Sometimes in the right. Sometimes in the left. Despite all of that, my vision remains very clear. It feels like a tension, or eye ache. Almost like the mussel in the eye won't completely relax. I began noticing this around the time period when I was exploring a lot of methylation nutrients, glycine, and many other stuff maybe 2-3 months ago. Initially I didn't think anything of it and actually thought it was a symptom from eating non AB foods. Well since then it's persisted quite decently, appearing on and off throughout the day.
I went to see an Optometrist today about my concern, who did a lot of comprehensive testing. After lots of discussion, explaining exactly what I was experiencing, and putting me through many of the different tests involving all sorts of equipment, etc the results came back that overall my eyes are very healthy. I am short-sided in my right eye (have been for as long as I can remember.) He thinks that perhaps the over compensation of 1 eye leads to the fatigue of another and vice versa. Overall he was not concerned about what I was experiencing and I'm over the moon about the results. I also told him about many of the supplements I've been experimenting with, the stress of my chronic condition, food sensitivities, my physical labour job etc.
But I will say this experience has kind of shaken me a bit. I want to be more careful about my health moving forward. I think I have been a bit reckless in regards to testing too many things in a short period of time, combined with my physically intensive job and tendancy to undereat on my diet.
I think testing as many things as we can is amazing, but we definitely need to be careful. I am grateful for the level of relief I've been able to experience on my AB diet and at this point I am much more of the mindset of acceptance rather than trying to fight my sensitivities. I want to take a much more natural, careful, and slow path moving forward.
For the record I have permanently improved my methylation and subsequently sensitivities, but it isn't perfect enough to expect to eat other foods and not get any symptoms. I still get a moderate amount of symptoms especially if I'm eating it day in day out. SAM-e has definitely replenished whatever deficiency I must've had, given that these days I no longer feel a deep need for taking a B complex, eggs, or SAM-e etc... I am at the moment giving myself a complete break from ALL supplements except for the occaisional magnesium, D3, and vitamin C.
If your POIS symptoms are still full-blown then you obviously have less to lose in terms of experimenting with a lot of things, but for me, I'm just going to work on accepting my situation more. I'm eternally grateful for all of the progress I have made, and I want to enjoy the level of health that I still have.
I think at this point my options are, that imo adhere to a more natural approach:
1) work on making animal-based diet better i.e, i recently bought a new BBQ which has made eating meat much more appetising. I still struggle with the constant influx of sugary and acidic fruit to meet baseline carbohydrate needs
2) potentially try carnivore for 3 months minimum - this would solve my constant battle of being hungry / under-eaten if it works for me
3) experient with some things that have a high safety profile, that have a high potential for improving my existing state of health, and are very natural i.e., i recently bought some authentic (sun-dried), activated, organic maca i plan on eventually playing with
4) I may try the immune stack again at some point in the future, but for now I intuitively feel like giving my body a big break from everything, and getting it back to a natural state as much as possible.
My current protocol is really just an animal-based diet, D3/k2, vitamin C, and some magnesium. I no longer appear to need the B complex, SAM-e, raw garlic, or fenugreek. This is a result from topping up my methylation. So clearly I think there must be a link to methylation -> raw garlic/fenugreek. I will still keep these supplements on my main page though for documentation. Who knows too, perhaps in the future I will need these again.
-
yes I already told you that I think I have excessive methylation because I took SAM-E for a few weeks and felt worse, I just wanted to know how to take them. A few days ago I tried the SAM-E again and felt worse. After a while I took 2.5g of glycine and niacin every 1/2 hour. It seems to have made me feel better a little
-
yes I already told you that I think I have excessive methylation because I took SAM-E for a few weeks and felt worse, I just wanted to know how to take them. A few days ago I tried the SAM-E again and felt worse. After a while I took 2.5g of glycine and niacin every 1/2 hour. It seems to have made me feel better a little
If you still have over methylation symptoms after stopping SAM-e, then glycine and niacin can help. In that case something like a magnesium glycinate would also be beneficial right before bed-time if you wanted to stay on a daily dosage of glycine. Niacin is more used for utility, meaning temporarily reducing methyl groups, whereas glycine should in theory only buffer excess. Otherwise just take it as a sign your body not needing SAM-e.
-
My response to https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/1ceae8f/same_safe_alternative/
Let me illustrate my personal annecdote re SAM-e:
For a long time, I was taking a 150 Forte B complex and regularly eating eggs (packed with choline). This was not enough to fix the severe methylation deficiency I had. It wasn't until I took SAM-e that it 'replenished' my methylation. Now I do not take any methylation supplements including SAM-e or B complex. Haven't touched them in a long time as many of my depleted methylation symptoms i.e., brainfog and very severe food sensitivity symptoms (I still have food sensitivities, but they improved since the SAM-e), have completely gone away. AFAIK most people take SAM-e only for a temporary period of time to fix the methylation deficiency. Once it's 'fixed', your body will actually tell you it won't need it by reacting unfavourably. I now also no longer need to take raw garlic or fenugreek. They don't do anything since I supplemented SAM-e for that temporary period of time.
AFAIK, SAM-e did not cause any harm on me (and I took it for quite a decent period of time), but I will never know for sure. Obviously there's a risk to it like you already stated.
Safer SAM-e alternatives might be creatine, TMG, L-methione, choline, etc. They certainly do not all work the same, but they may still fix or improve the methylation problem you are trying to fix through SAM-e. For me for example, choline was not sufficient in fixing whatever problem I had that SAM-e was successful in fixing. I also used to take creatine monohydrate many years ago and never noticed any impact on improving my POIS symptoms (which are impacted by methylation.)
-
Hey man, quick update,
So I've been following a meat+root veg diet for a bit more than 10 days now, i eat mostly lamb or beef , with homemade potato fries, sometimes celeriac and some onions with the meat. Its been going well, I actually feel satiated now when im done eating, and I can definitely feel the hunger coming progressively instead of feeling completely bloated and the next moment you're starving.
I abstained for nearly 2 weeks, then thought it was time to release, and for the first time in years, I actually completely focused on myself when I M'd, I didn't watch porn, and just tried to relax as much as possible and was really calm, it felt good to release, didnt have much symptoms, the next day I actually felt a lot less tense around my pelvic area, so I decided to do it again last night, at some point i told myself maybe i shouldnt O but I didn't listen to myself and had a few symptoms this morning, the most significant was my hearing became worst. The past 2 weeks my hearing has become so fucking good, even my family noticed it, my mom made a few comments about how crisp my hearing is, but today I have to ask people to repeat themselves etc... So I think maybe I should only release like every couple days, not sure the exact number thats something i will have to figure out. My apetite was also a lot lower today after the 2nd O, but yesterday I did not notice any difference, I actually felt the bliss after you O if you know what I mean on the 1st night, but not as much on the 2nd, so tldr I should definitely let my body some time inbetween Os to recover, also I should M being completely mindfull especially since I suffer from PE so I can use that time to work on that, slow down, focus on the feeling and relax the body with deep breaths.
Besides that, I feel like the diet is helping out so much, not feeling completely tired after every meal and bloated and full but still hungry, Im also doing some short cold showers either in the afternoon if its too hot or in the mornings.
Thank you for coming up with your protocol man the animal based diet really does help out a lot of the underlying issues!
-
Hey man, quick update,
So I've been following a meat+root veg diet for a bit more than 10 days now, i eat mostly lamb or beef , with homemade potato fries, sometimes celeriac and some onions with the meat. Its been going well, I actually feel satiated now when im done eating, and I can definitely feel the hunger coming progressively instead of feeling completely bloated and the next moment you're starving.
I abstained for nearly 2 weeks, then thought it was time to release, and for the first time in years, I actually completely focused on myself when I M'd, I didn't watch porn, and just tried to relax as much as possible and was really calm, it felt good to release, didnt have much symptoms, the next day I actually felt a lot less tense around my pelvic area, so I decided to do it again last night, at some point i told myself maybe i shouldnt O but I didn't listen to myself and had a few symptoms this morning, the most significant was my hearing became worst. The past 2 weeks my hearing has become so fucking good, even my family noticed it, my mom made a few comments about how crisp my hearing is, but today I have to ask people to repeat themselves etc... So I think maybe I should only release like every couple days, not sure the exact number thats something i will have to figure out. My apetite was also a lot lower today after the 2nd O, but yesterday I did not notice any difference, I actually felt the bliss after you O if you know what I mean on the 1st night, but not as much on the 2nd, so tldr I should definitely let my body some time inbetween Os to recover, also I should M being completely mindfull especially since I suffer from PE so I can use that time to work on that, slow down, focus on the feeling and relax the body with deep breaths.
Besides that, I feel like the diet is helping out so much, not feeling completely tired after every meal and bloated and full but still hungry, Im also doing some short cold showers either in the afternoon if its too hot or in the mornings.
Thank you for coming up with your protocol man the animal based diet really does help out a lot of the underlying issues!
Good to hear man. Do you think the AB diet has improved your actual POIS symptoms?
And yeah, find a frequency of ejaculation that works best for you. When my symptoms were at their absolute worst, I could afford to ejaculate maybe once a month without experiencing any symptoms. Now my ideal frequency is probably once every 2 weeks or so. I could release willy nillingly - and have in the past, but I wouldn't feel as optimal compared to when I consciously modulate it - even with my protocol.
Finding your ideal ejaculation frequency: https://www.taylorjohnson.life/how-often-should-you-ejaculate/. This guy teaches semen retention. I think many SR practices can be beneficial to POISers. But I like to combine the best of both worlds - attempt to improve your symptoms medically (learning from the POIS community and subreddit), while also learning to find what works best for you in regards to a SR lifestyle - ideal frequency of release, exploring non ejaculatory orgasms and sex, etc.
-
Yeh I feel like it helps for sure, although I feel like I'm not eating enough atm, meat is quite expensive here especially the good cuts, and sometimes it can get quite boring so Im not fully restricting myself and if friends or family want to go eat out I don't fully restrict myself. eating more meat is always a good idea
I read the article you linked, its got solid advice, I feel like its always good to keep things balanced, thanks for sharing!
-
For some odd reason, I respond amazingly to LifeExtension D3 brand far better than NOW D3 brand. I literally feel worst after taking NOW D3.
Feel better on this one:
7000iu D3 LifeExtension which contains the following ingredients including. D3 (cholecalciferol) 175mg, extra virgin olive oil, gelatin, medium chain triglycerides, glycerin, purified water, rosemary extract
Feel worst on this one:
10,000D3 NOW which contains the following ingredients including. D3 (cholecalciferol, specifically stating from Lanolin) 175mg, extra virgin olive oil, bovine gelatin, glycerin, water, safflower oil
Here's what Claude AI thought:
Lanolin sensitivity: The NOW brand specifically states that their D3 is derived from lanolin, which is a wax secreted by wool-bearing animals. Some people may have a sensitivity or allergy to lanolin, which could cause adverse reactions or discomfort. The LifeExtension brand does not specify the source of their D3, so it might be derived from a different source that your patient tolerates better.
Medium chain triglycerides (MCT): The LifeExtension brand contains MCT, which is absent in the NOW brand. MCT is a type of fat that is easily digestible and rapidly absorbed by the body. Some people find that MCT enhances the absorption and effectiveness of fat-soluble vitamins like vitamin D3. This could potentially contribute to your patient feeling better on the LifeExtension brand.
Rosemary extract: The LifeExtension brand includes rosemary extract, which has antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties. Although the amount is likely small, it's possible that your patient may be experiencing some additional benefits from this ingredient.
Individual response: Every person's body is unique and can respond differently to various supplements or ingredients. It's possible that your patient simply tolerates the LifeExtension brand better due to their individual biochemistry and genetics.
---
I've literally been getting more depressed since taking the NOW brand (which I only begun as it was more accessible and cheaper than the LifeExtension). I will confirm this more through the coming weeks but so far it certainly seems to be significant at least for me. The typical symptom I experience when my D3 gets low (or at least when I stop the LifeExtension supplement for a prolonged period of time) is auditory thought noise.
Keep in mind too I've taken 21,000iu D3 from LifeExtension brand all in 1 day quite frequently. So it has nothing to do with the dosages.
Lesson here is don't fix what isn't broken, and if you ever change anything up brand-wise, don't assume the new brand works identical. Once you find something that works, just stick to it or be very careful changing things up.
-
I think there is a significant link between LifeExtension D3 & my food sensitivities. My POIS and food sensitivities appear to dramatically improve when taking this D3 supplement by LifeExtension.
I'm going to investigate this further moving forward w/ blood testing to check D3 levels according to level of symptom and relief.
I've taken other D3 supplements and they do not appear to be as potent as this one. It contains other ingredients potentially having a medicinal benefit but I'm skeptical, apart from maybe they're making D3 more bioavailable for my system.
Maybe D3 mega-dosing via potent LifeExtension D3 supplement is what is behind the effectiveness.
Interesting links to explore:
https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/omg5lt/has_anyone_else_tried_mega_dosing_vitamin_d3/
I think it may be possible that those with POIS or at least for myself, the optimal level of D3 will be higher than the threshold for reducing symptoms... I will explore this idea in the coming weeks... it just seems like even when my D3 level was very high, it only took a few weeks of zero supplementation for symptoms to begin intensifying, which may indicate that we need higher levels than normal for optimal relief...
"When you make D3 in your skin (from natural sunlight), it lasts 2-3x longer in your body then when taking it as a supplement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuWC2d0mTbo)"
This would explain why my D3 levels seem to drop more quickly after supplementing my levels compared to getting it naturally through sunlight.
-
The D3 Experiments (Work in progress page)
Warning: It's highly recommended you work with a doctor when taking megadoses of D3 which can be dangerous and even deadly if done irresponsibly. With that being said, I believe megadosing D3, or at the very least getting your D3 levels to the higher level of safe range, has enormous potential for improving POIS symptoms. Read up on the following resources: How Not To Die With High Dose D3 Therapy (https://www.amazon.com.au/True-High-Dose-Vitamin-Therapy-Supplementation-ebook/dp/B07F7LPWML/ref=srd_d_psims_T1_d_sccl_1_3/358-1215866-1537225?pd_rd_w=kSUWQ&content-id=amzn1.sym.9fb3831c-5101-455e-87b3-cf407f27e9a7&pf_rd_p=9fb3831c-5101-455e-87b3-cf407f27e9a7&pf_rd_r=GX7Z5QYMPXPYGXN4H02H&pd_rd_wg=gpJtr&pd_rd_r=51aec49d-f1be-4110-ac7d-23fb80b9bd14&pd_rd_i=B07F7LPWML&psc=1#customerReviews), The Miraculous Results Of Extremely High Doses Of The Sunshine Hormone Vitamin D3 (https://www.amazon.com.au/Miraculous-Results-Extremely-Doses-Sunshine/dp/1491243821#customerReviews), and The Coimbra Protocol (https://www.coimbraprotocol.com/general-information). I am not a doctor. I am simply sharing information about a protocol which I believe has enormous potential for improving POIS symptoms.
I see two main D3 strategies I will test for addressing POIS symptoms:
1) Getting D3 serum levels (25-hydroxy) to the upper end of the conventional range = 40-50ng/mL. (Safest)
2) Megadosing D3 until level of symptom remission, where serum levels may need to rise well above conventional range (Dangerous if not done under medical supervision)
I think taking high dosages of D3 has enormous potential.
I’ve already seen a lot of its potential from the moderate amount I’ve been taking thus far.
I think it’s possible it could completely transform my food sensitivities beyond their current level.
German doc recommended for autoimmune patients 120ng/ml for transformative effects.
I took 21,000iu daily for a month or two and reached 100ng/ml, but stopped out of fear of toxicity levels.
Will do a full write up + comprehensive research into this as I think it has huge potential.
My D3 shot up to 98.6 ng/mL (16/02) after 2-3 months of 21,000iu per day. Then I stopped for a few weeks and re got tested on the 07/03, with a D3 level of 60.2 ng/mL. So from 16/02, to 07/03 (20 days apart), D3 25-hydroxy level fell from 98.6 ng/mL to 60.2 ng/mL.
Even when my levels were at 60.2 ng/mL, I still stopped taking any D3 thinking my levels were satisfactory. A few weeks later I was blindsighted by an increase of symptoms.
Recommended ranges of D3 is currently debated. From my research, minimal range imo for those with inflammatory disease is 70-80 ng/mL. Others may still benefit from higher dosages and serum levels. This article is an interesting read up for that. (http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/08/the-amazing-curative-powers-of-high-dose-vitamin-d-in-aging-and-autism/)
Warning: Do your own independent research. I’m not a medical specialist or doctor by any means. None of this is medical advice.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/08/the-amazing-curative-powers-of-high-dose-vitamin-d-in-aging-and-autism/
The goal is to identify the most effective high vitamin D3 dosage and blood level long-term (thats still reasonably safe). There's a solid chance that those with POIS or any other inflammatory chronic disease will do better on higher dosages and blood levels of D3 than the norm.
In 2022 (16/08/22), I had my D3 tested as per request of my specialist. I didn't think at the time I would be deficient in D3 given that my work at the time required me to be out in the sun very frequently. The test result came back as 79 nmol/L or 22 ng/mL... I would personally conder this on the low end, though by generic medical standards it would be considered ok. The fact that my D3 was this low despite spending lots of time out in the sun at the time is probably quite telling... again may support the theory behind inflammatory diseases chewing through D3 at faster rates.
Many times in the past I have actually quoted here in my journal of either how reducing D3 (stopping its supplementation) has increased auditory thought (mental noise), worstened POIS symptoms, etc, and how increasing its dosage to higher amounts (at least 14,000iu) improved my POIS, food sensitivities, and overall health drastically.
The questions I need to answer once and for all:
- What is the optimal range of D3 for me?
- Does a high serum level and/or megadosing D3 have potential in curing my food sensitivities completely?
- Does vitamin D3, when dialled in at optimal range, fix all levels of social apathy/anhedonia? (In the past I noticed this appeared to go away completely around the time period I was doing a lot of experimentation with Nanna1s stack where I was taking high amounts of D3.)
https://www.coimbraprotocol.com/the-protocol-1
https://vitamindwiki.com/Is+50+ng+of+vitamin+D+too+high%2C+just+right%2C+or+not+enough#Overview_of_the_controversy
https://www.holisticcharlotte.com/dont-overlook-the-necessity-of-vitamin-d-cofactors/
-
Hey bro, another update
I'm doing better, I've started a morning stretching routine, trying to stay consistent with my meals, although sometimes when I don't consume enough sugar I feel irritated. Overall I feel more connected with my body, I've noticed I feel calmer and more in tune with my body during the warmer months of the year, but at the same time my refractory period and POIS are worst during those months, all in all its a trade-off thats definitely beneficial because my diet tends to be cleaner and I start doing more healthy activities like stretching, spending time in nature and connecting with family, I live in the UK and the cold months can be brutal, my favorite season is spring where I feel the most in balance.
I've been feeling extremely horny today so I did peak at explicit content earlier, thankfully it was only images, I was experimenting with non-ejaculatory pleasure recently but today my horniness was consuming my thoughts too much, its been a week since my last O. I ended up masturbating, since Im circumcised I think I really need to get myself some lube haha because masturbating feels really unsatisfactory without it, I will get some before next time.
After a couple days of abstinence, it feels like my entire body is erect, if that makes any sense, right now after my O I already feel a lot more sluggish and softer.
So yeh, In summer I feel less sexual but that means I can focus on other things, I feel more human and less governed by my balls, I gaze way less at women on the streets whereas in winter even though my POIS symptoms and refractory period lessen it feels like its on my mind 24/7. I'd love to move somewhere with less harsh winters and longer warm months, ideally with more sunlight because in the UK we can go multiple days without sunlight.
I also think I need to increase the time between Os, first one I had abstained for 3 weeks and felt amazing after, felt the post nut bliss, but the last 2 times when its been 1 week inbetween I haven't. Or I could experiment more with non-ejaculatory pleasure but then I have PE so it can be difficult
-
German doc recommended for autoimmune patients 120ng/ml for transformative effects.
I took 21,000iu daily for a month or two and reached 100ng/ml, but stopped out of fear of toxicity levels.
Will do a full write up + comprehensive research into this as I think it has huge potential.
My D3 shot up to 98.6 ng/mL (16/02) after 2-3 months of 21,000iu per day. Then I stopped for a few weeks and re got tested on the 07/03, with a D3 level of 60.2 ng/mL. So from 16/02, to 07/03 (20 days apart), D3 25-hydroxy level fell from 98.6 ng/mL to 60.2 ng/mL.
"Man Dies of Hypercalcemia, a Condition Caused by Excessive Vitamin D Consumption"
"The naturopath had advised the man to take eight drops of vitamin D daily. Over a period of more than two years, the man consumed between 8,000 and 12,000 international units (IU) of vitamin D daily.
The recommended daily amount for the average person is between 400 and 1,000 IU.
Due to the high amount of vitamin D the man was taking, he had an excessive amount of calcium in his blood, which led to kidney damage.
?It was surprising to see the degree of kidney function he had lost suddenly almost to the point of requiring dialysis,? Dr. Bourne Auguste, a clinical fellow in home dialysis at Toronto General Hospital and the University of Toronto, told Healthline."
Contact a neurologist!
Thanks for pointing out the dangers of high dose D3 supplementation.
One way of reducing the calcification risk associated with high dose D3 is to take vitamin K2 alongside D3. It forces the extra absorbed calcium into the bones. I have personally been taking 170mcg of K2 per 10,000iu, sometimes even more.
Some recommend 1mg of k2 for every 10,000iu of D3 to be safe. Most recommend at least 100mcg of K2 per 10,000iu.
There are additional safety measures one would want to do when exploring high dose D3 therapies. Comprehensive blood work, etc. This is why it's important you seek professional guidance.
Those recommended daily amounts for D3 are laughable and outdated. No one around here will benefit from such small dosages. Read the Coimbra Protocol (https://www.coimbraprotocol.com/general-information).
Of course those reading this need to consult with their doctor, but make sure you find one that is actually open-minded and up to date with the latest D3 information.
Edit: I have added the following warning segment thanks to your concerns:
Warning: It's highly recommended you work with a doctor when taking megadoses of D3 which can be dangerous and even deadly if done irresponsibly. With that being said, I believe megadosing D3, or at the very least getting your D3 levels to the higher level of safe range, has enormous potential for improving POIS symptoms. Read up on the following resources: How Not To Die With High Dose D3 Therapy (https://www.amazon.com.au/True-High-Dose-Vitamin-Therapy-Supplementation-ebook/dp/B07F7LPWML/ref=srd_d_psims_T1_d_sccl_1_3/358-1215866-1537225?pd_rd_w=kSUWQ&content-id=amzn1.sym.9fb3831c-5101-455e-87b3-cf407f27e9a7&pf_rd_p=9fb3831c-5101-455e-87b3-cf407f27e9a7&pf_rd_r=GX7Z5QYMPXPYGXN4H02H&pd_rd_wg=gpJtr&pd_rd_r=51aec49d-f1be-4110-ac7d-23fb80b9bd14&pd_rd_i=B07F7LPWML&psc=1#customerReviews), The Miraculous Results Of Extremely High Doses Of The Sunshine Hormone Vitamin D3 (https://www.amazon.com.au/Miraculous-Results-Extremely-Doses-Sunshine/dp/1491243821#customerReviews), and The Coimbra Protocol (https://www.coimbraprotocol.com/general-information). I am not a doctor. I am simply sharing information about a protocol which I believe has enormous potential for improving POIS symptoms.
-
Hey bro, another update
I'm doing better, I've started a morning stretching routine, trying to stay consistent with my meals, although sometimes when I don't consume enough sugar I feel irritated. Overall I feel more connected with my body, I've noticed I feel calmer and more in tune with my body during the warmer months of the year, but at the same time my refractory period and POIS are worst during those months, all in all its a trade-off thats definitely beneficial because my diet tends to be cleaner and I start doing more healthy activities like stretching, spending time in nature and connecting with family, I live in the UK and the cold months can be brutal, my favorite season is spring where I feel the most in balance.
I've been feeling extremely horny today so I did peak at explicit content earlier, thankfully it was only images, I was experimenting with non-ejaculatory pleasure recently but today my horniness was consuming my thoughts too much, its been a week since my last O. I ended up masturbating, since Im circumcised I think I really need to get myself some lube haha because masturbating feels really unsatisfactory without it, I will get some before next time.
After a couple days of abstinence, it feels like my entire body is erect, if that makes any sense, right now after my O I already feel a lot more sluggish and softer.
So yeh, In summer I feel less sexual but that means I can focus on other things, I feel more human and less governed by my balls, I gaze way less at women on the streets whereas in winter even though my POIS symptoms and refractory period lessen it feels like its on my mind 24/7. I'd love to move somewhere with less harsh winters and longer warm months, ideally with more sunlight because in the UK we can go multiple days without sunlight.
I also think I need to increase the time between Os, first one I had abstained for 3 weeks and felt amazing after, felt the post nut bliss, but the last 2 times when its been 1 week inbetween I haven't. Or I could experiment more with non-ejaculatory pleasure but then I have PE so it can be difficult
Good to hear things are improving for you mate.
For a UK folk, I would especially suggest for you to dial in D3 given that you get less sun exposure compared to other places around the globe.
-
Here's an excellent link on the differences of opinion and controversy surrounding ideal D3 supplementation levels: https://vitamindwiki.com/Is+50+ng+of+vitamin+D+too+high%2C+just+right%2C+or+not+enough#Overview_of_the_controversy
So according to this page, a 25-hydroxy D3 lvl of 50ng/mL is optimal for infections and Covid-19. I think there is a very decent probability an infection of some sorts is behind POIS, and similar pathology to long covid.
Would be really interesting if more of us could get D3 25-hydroxy done and evaluate at what level POIS symptom improve (if they do) according to D3 level. Though this may be quite tedious and time consuming to do.
Fortunately 50ng/mL is still within the conventional range (only some experts would still believe its too high), though it is on the high end upper limit. Any higher and you are moving into territory you generally must take more care with.
Though I have a sense for me personally, I will do better on higher dosages. I will be exploring this over the coming month.
-
Here's an excellent link on the differences of opinion and controversy surrounding ideal D3 supplementation levels: https://vitamindwiki.com/Is+50+ng+of+vitamin+D+too+high%2C+just+right%2C+or+not+enough#Overview_of_the_controversy
So according to this page, a 25-hydroxy D3 lvl of 50ng/mL is optimal for infections and Covid-19. I think there is a very decent probability an infection of some sorts is behind POIS, and similar pathology to long covid.
Would be really interesting if more of us could get D3 25-hydroxy done and evaluate at what level POIS symptom improve (if they do) according to D3 level. Though this may be quite tedious and time consuming to do.
Fortunately 50ng/mL is still within the conventional range (only some experts would still believe its too high), though it is on the high end upper limit. Any higher and you are moving into territory you generally must take more care with.
Though I have a sense for me personally, I will do better on higher dosages. I will be exploring this over the coming month.
I collected the tests today and I have 80 ng/ml of vitamin D, now I don't know whether to stop for a moment because I probably have even more because I continued to take it even after I did the tests. But yes, I would like to keep myself among the 80 and 100. One thing that worries me a little is that I have 115 mcg/dl of vitamin A, so I'm in excess. The maximum should be 80. I also have a slight excess of zinc. And I tested positive for VCA-igG and EBNA IgG of the Epstein bar virus (EBV) but I am negative for VCA-igM. So I probably had the virus in the past and I probably had mononucleosis. I tested negative for Cytomegalovirus (CMV).
-
A therapy or medical treatment is the attempted remediation of a health problem, usually following a medical diagnosis.
Medical diagnosis is the process of determining which disease or condition explains a person's symptoms and signs. It is most often referred to as a diagnosis with the medical context being implicit. The information required for a diagnosis is typically collected from a history and physical examination of the person seeking medical care. Often, one or more diagnostic procedures, such as medical tests, are also done during the process.
I’ve already added medical disclaimers to my posts. People here can make their own decisions weighing up the risks… pls do not spam my thread.
-
Yesterday I took 3-4x 200mg of SAM-e, spread out in 30 min stints or so, and definitely feel like it’s helping again, which would indicate that my SAM-e lvls do still get depleted over time even tho I’m occasionally taking B complex, eggs for choline, etc…
I’m currently exploring the possibility that high serum lvls of D3 + completely replenished SAM-e lvls = potential complete remission of food sensitivities
I haven’t taken any SAM-e for a few months… I stopped taking it as every time I went to try, even weeks spread between dosages, I always felt like my body didn’t need it. So all of this is evidence that, at least for me, and most likely others, SAM-e gets depleted from POIS over time….no amount of B complex, choline (eggs) or red meat seems to satisfactory replenish it, but equally, it’s probably best to view it like a nutrient. Once topped up - and you will probably know once it gives you side-effects ie makes you feel worst rather than better, you can take a break for a while until the levels are depleted again….
I also have no doubt that increasing my D3 serum lvls have improved my POIS symptoms enormously…. I don’t know the exact serum lvls, all I know is that I experience a very distinct improvement in symptoms when I up my supplement dosage, which is obviously increasing my serum lvls to a specific range…
-
Hi Warrior, it could be that vitamine D regulate adaptive immune
response in regards yours pois and food sensitivites:
Although 1,25(OH)2D3 promotes the innate immune response, it is a suppressor of adaptive immunity [25,26,27]. 1,25(OH)2D3 suppresses immune responses mediated by Type 1 T helper (Th1) cells which are capable of producing inflammatory cytokines.24. sep 2015.
Vitamine D have many many roles in human body.
In my case, 2 doctors and 3 specialists didnt comented my
severe vitamine D defiency from my tests results( it was 9).
-
Hi Warrior, it could be that vitamine D regulate adaptive immune
response in regards yours pois and food sensitivites:
Although 1,25(OH)2D3 promotes the innate immune response, it is a suppressor of adaptive immunity [25,26,27]. 1,25(OH)2D3 suppresses immune responses mediated by Type 1 T helper (Th1) cells which are capable of producing inflammatory cytokines.24. sep 2015.
Vitamine D have many many roles in human body.
In my case, 2 doctors and 3 specialists didnt comented my
severe vitamine D defiency from my tests results( it was 9).
The function of D3 is complex, so who knows exactly how it's helping. All I know is that it's been a huge breakthrough for me personally to control D3 serum levels for POIS.
This is absolutely insane that all those specialists failed to comment on your vitamin D deficiency...they should revoke their speciality status... if they aren't picking up on deficiency levels, there is little to no chance doctors are going to comment on low but in-range. The difference between low but in-range and optimal levels can be enormous.
Check out this link here and scroll down to "Vitamin D needed to TREAT Health problems (30 ng to 150 ng)" https://vitamindwiki.com/Is+50+ng+of+vitamin+D+too+high%2C+just+right%2C+or+not+enough#Overview_of_the_controversy
Those with inflammatory conditions appear to do better on serum levels upwards of 50ng/mL. Functional medicine recommends optimal range is between 60-90ng/mL, especially for those with inflammatory conditions (https://www.drdaniel.com/articles/how-to-optimize-vitamin-d-levels/). The important thing to keep in mind here is that the optimal serum level of D3 is debated. Not all specialists agree on a specific optimal level. Your doctor may have been trained that 30ng/mL is optimal, while other doctors who are more informed on optimal D3 levels for inflammatory conditions may recommend 80ng/mL or higher for example.
This has been in line with my personal experience with POIS. I am still in the process of identifying my optimal D3 serum level.
Dialling up my D3 has fixed the following POIS and food sensitivity symptoms:
- Fatigued throat which would occur especially after eating non AB foods
- Vastly improved body aches - at one point my body aches were intensifying a lot and couldn't figure out why. Most likely due to D3 levels dropping.
- Fixed weird facial tensions I experience with food sensitivities
- Improvement in mood overall, especially in reducing auditory thought (mental noise)
- Improved intensity of food sensitivity symptoms, but hasn't been able to stop it all together i.e., I still experience mood drops and a very distinct almost flight or fight response activation, even though it has been improved.
-
1) SAM-e levels do appear to get depleted from POIS over time, and thus will need to be periodically replenished. No matter how much B complex, choline (eggs), and red meat I eat, SAM-e levels still appear to get depleted, which I think is a significant fact. POIS is clearly depleting SAM-e very directly. I am thus sceptical of alternative ways of replenishing SAM-e (for those with POIS) given that choline, folate, and other B complex vitamins were not able to keep levels maintained like I initially thought. Maybe creatine might work, but it will never be as direct as SAM-e supplementation.
2) SAM-e definitely improves my POIS and food sensitivities, though it does not appear to work as perfectly like it initially did.
3) The medical community don't really know much about SAM-e. It appears to be safe. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-same/art-20364924#:~:text=SAMe%20appears%20to%20be%20safe,SAMe%20and%20prescription%20antidepressants%20together.) I think there is a lot more to discover about it though...
-
The function of D3 is complex, so who knows exactly how it's helping. All I know is that it's been a huge breakthrough for me personally to control D3 serum levels for POIS.
We knows..
I suspect that pois is neurological and immune disorder.
So if one substance is helping like vitamine D, we can reasarch in wich ways it helping, because vit D i well science reasarched, so we can compare.
-
The function of D3 is complex, so who knows exactly how it's helping. All I know is that it's been a huge breakthrough for me personally to control D3 serum levels for POIS.
We knows..
I suspect that pois is neurological and immune disorder.
So if one substance is helping like vitamine D, we can reasarch in wich ways it helping, because vit D i well science reasarched, so we can compare.
It's definitely some kind of immune inflammatory disorder haha thats for sure.
-
VAGUS NERVE
Came across this guys post (https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/1bywchc/update_99_recovered_after_treating_myself_for/?share_id=E162hPv3SU3dziZDGn96D&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) from (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/1d7x3zb/comment/l76tuft/?context=3) who claims had his POIS cured by fixing his "cranial instability". He had Long Covid as well, and spoke about a documentary where a cranial instability patient was misdiagnosed as MS/CFS for years. Long covid, MS-CFS, and POIS most likely share similar pathology.
I looked into cranial instability, and many of the symptoms are similar to POIS...brainfog, trouble speaking, ringing in the ears, fatigue, etc. I then did some exercises for cranial instability, and do feel like they made me feel better. This was shortly after eating an entire bowel of pasta, so I was expecting some food sensitivity symptoms (I've still come a long way improving those food sensitivitiy symptoms but not enough to reliably eat other foods without symptoms).
Cranial instability then led me to the vagus nerve... many people in the POIS community have spoken about it's possible link in POIS. Currently going down this rabbit hole and finding it very interesting. Links into Nanna1's CNS infection theory as well.
Too early to tell but I thought this was interesting enough to make a post on my thread for future documentation. I am certainly going to explore vagus nerve and cranial instability exercises moving forward just to see if theres anything here!
Interesting reads
https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/v9hxa4/finally_diagnosed_with_something_concrete/
Excellent video shared by Muon:
Compression of the vagus nerve due to cervical instability in Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIUBBCtl6aU)
-
Given that there is a really strong chance POIS has something to do with a dysfunctional nervous system, this imo opens the door to many physical practices that may help regulate the overally active nervous system and thus improve symptoms.
Some ideas for these practices include:
Kriya Yoga breathwork, especially Kriya Pranyama
Wim hof
Iyengar yoga
Cranial instability exercises
Vagus nerve exercises
Many more online I am yet to research!
https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/183yvjp/anyone_know_what_the_mechanism_is_behind_the_long/
In the past when I had a Kriya Yoga practice, I distinctively remember one time where I was able to reverse the depletive symptoms (back then they were relatively mild compared to the intensity of my symptoms at their worst 6 years ago) from POIS through my Kriya practice (only for that day). This would obviously need to be repeated for more proof, but it is definitely interesting nonetheless, and peaks my curiosity further for exploring these types of practices to relax the nervous system.
I think this is an entire world worth exploring for those suffering from POIS... to be utilised in conjunction with others nutritional and supplemental therapies. Something I have probably overlooked in my own journey.
In the tantric community and specifically within David Deida's books, he mentions the idea that having non ejaculatory sex increases the prana/life force energy, and thus the person will likely be able to handle more ejaculations. This is basically on the same idea. Distinct physical exercises like Kriya Yoga, or non-ejaculatory sex - where one might work to breathe the energy up and down the spine, will likely have very distinct physiological improvements on nervous system dysfunction aka - it may allow the body to recover from POIS faster and thus handle more ejaculations
I will also mention that Pranyama exercises are also very effective for moving sexual energy away from the groin. This can help those who are abstaining for periods of time.
-
So at this point I do not believe high serum D3 and replenished SAM-e are able to completely remedy my food sensitivities, like I thought they possibly would. I still need to get my D3 checked, but I've been taking relatively high dosages for a while. They both improve symptoms significantly, but do not offer complete permanent relief entirely on their own AFAIK. With thta being said, I have not checked the serum levels but moving upwards of 80ng/mL long-term definitely carries risk requiring overview from a medical specialist.
Lately I've been eating quite a bit of pasta, grains, and other non AB foods. Overall, my sensitivities have improved dramatically, but I still experience symptoms. Most mental symptoms are gone, except I do notice my nervous system still gets somewhat rallied up, making me slightly more anxious than usual. Physically I will still experience body aches, but these have improved significantly since upping the D3. The body aches used to be very sharp, occuring all over the body. Now they feel more "broadly" achey, rather than sharp pains. Like my left leg or right arm will be feel achey in general, rather than small localised pins of aches. I also experience headaches and facial tensions. Almost as if someone has hit me across the head with a bat lol. All these symptoms last for 20mins - 1.5hr or so... I've also noticed during that period I can become more lazy and unmotivated than usual.
Contrast to this in the past, I would experinece extreme brainfog and anxiety from eating non AB foods, especially gluten, or even potatoes. This would literally linger into the next day. It would mess up my cognition, social "sense", etc. So improvements have been made! but not 100% there yet to be eating these foods consistently and feeling good, but enough to have the odd break here and there from my AB diet.
-
So many similarities between POIS and Long Covid! Lots to be learned from this subreddit that may be able to be applied to POIS!
https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/loe10t/hi_rcovidlonghaulers_im_the_one_who_suffered_a/
https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/183yvjp/anyone_know_what_the_mechanism_is_behind_the_long/
-
Bee sting therapy targetted at the location of hypothesised CNS infection:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2683.msg23766#msg23766
"So far, it seems like the trigeminal nerve could be the area of the brain most associated with my POIS symptoms."
Resources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_Pdbxnc7Wc
https://youtu.be/ccrjJkhdn40?si=Kf1jxKXrBmyYTx8p
"Health and the Honeybee" https://www.amazon.com.au/Health-Honeybee-Charles-Mraz/dp/0964248506
"The therapeutic application of bee products, or apitherapy, is an ancient practice soon to find its place in modern medicine. History reveals that Greek and Roman civilizations benefited from the fruits of th ehive, and that the first Chinese acupuncture needle may have been the sting of a bee. (from back cover)"
-
So at this point I do not believe high serum D3 and replenished SAM-e are able to completely remedy my food sensitivities, like I thought they possibly would. I still need to get my D3 checked, but I've been taking relatively high dosages for a while. They both improve symptoms significantly, but do not offer complete permanent relief entirely on their own AFAIK. With thta being said, I have not checked the serum levels but moving upwards of 80ng/mL long-term definitely carries risk requiring overview from a medical specialist.
Lately I've been eating quite a bit of pasta, grains, and other non AB foods. Overall, my sensitivities have improved dramatically, but I still experience symptoms. Most mental symptoms are gone, except I do notice my nervous system still gets somewhat rallied up, making me slightly more anxious than usual. Physically I will still experience body aches, but these have improved significantly since upping the D3. The body aches used to be very sharp, occuring all over the body. Now they feel more "broadly" achey, rather than sharp pains. Like my left leg or right arm will be feel achey in general, rather than small localised pins of aches. I also experience headaches and facial tensions. Almost as if someone has hit me across the head with a bat lol. All these symptoms last for 20mins - 1.5hr or so... I've also noticed during that period I can become more lazy and unmotivated than usual.
Contrast to this in the past, I would experinece extreme brainfog and anxiety from eating non AB foods, especially gluten, or even potatoes. This would literally linger into the next day. It would mess up my cognition, social "sense", etc. So improvements have been made! but not 100% there yet to be eating these foods consistently and feeling good, but enough to have the odd break here and there from my AB diet.
I also have headaches (in the left back) and tension but in general not necessarily immediately after ejaculation. the third day is the one where I feel most tense of all
-
Here’s a post from 3 whole years ago where I was able to significantly still POIS-like symptoms from my Kriya Yoga practice.
https://www.reddit.com/r/kriyayoga/s/UxBE4a5Hdx
At the time I would have been doing long semen retention streaks but was completely unconscious in regards to how much my diet was triggering never ending POIS-like symptoms, which resulted in basically a permanent state of social anxiety, even when abstaining for long periods of time. Whenever I did ejaculate back then, my symptoms were nothing short of extreme. So naturally back then I was trying anything and everything to fix my severe social anxiety and mental symptoms.
The point of this post is to demonstrate to others that Kriya Yoga, especially Kriya Pranayama - arguably the main exercise within Kriya, does appear to somehow improve POIS symptoms rather significantly. The comments in the post actually mention Kriya Yoga inducing the parasympathetic nervous system.
I understand that many around this community are skeptical of “eastern” and “mystical” practices, especially when the word “chakras” can be thrown around quite a bit. I would encourage skeptics to keep an open-mind, and view Kriya Yoga simply as a set of breathing techniques combined with focusing on different parts of the body. The purpose of Kriya is predominately spiritual development, but also to clear physical and emotional blockages within the body to prime it for higher conscious experiences.
-
Just tried supplementing Vitamin E & CoQ 10. Noticed quite a significant improvement in energy after the CoQ10. Didn't notice anything after the Vitamin E. My diet is also very low source of vitamin E because I do my best not to eat seed oils. I don't have any strong views on the seed oil vs saturated fat argument apart from the fact that AB diet works very well for me, and I may as well listen to their advice regarding PUFA just in case.
I'm going to start supplementing these from now on provided I don't get any side-effects long-term. Vitamin E is especially important as an anti oxidant for PUFA, recommended by high saturated fat circles. So if theres a way to reduce CVD risk on AB, I'll take it lol. CoQ10 and Vitamin E both seemingly important to improve CVD health.
-
Very interesting video on how functional medicine might interpret a CBC. Specifically for me, based on my bloods, I have always had low neutrophils, moderately low white blood cells, and moderately low lymphocites. These values increase back to normal and even go in normal-high range after periods of abstience. Based on this video, it's most like a chronic infection of some sort, likely viral. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2DA0gL1os
It's not perfect and obviously very complex, but interesting nonetheless, and would further support Nanna1's theory.
-
Alright, I'm going to re-attempt Nanna1's immune therapy. Going to do it as intuitively as possible. Here are some notes I made:
My POIS is exceptionally similar to Nanna1’s in terms of symptoms, but also in terms of treatment i.e., methylation, D3, and HHV diagnosis i.e., HHV-6 and VZV, and CBC regarding low WBC and neutrophils See here https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg47816#msg47816.
This is the perfect depiction of mechanics behind immune therapy (scroll down to last paragraph): https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg33167#msg33167, basically dial-up AHCC, vitamin C, etc until symptom remission. Do things intuitively, but also keep everything safe.
https://www.youtube.com/@DrJinSung/videos amazing resource on chronic infections, building immunity, biofilm disruptors, etc
Bee venom therapy + apitherapy
Other useful supplements might be GlyNAC, quercetin, monolaurin, propolis, etc. Vitamin C IV.
The process must be intuitive.
-
Good luck with re-attempting immune therapy Warrior.
Like you, I typically have low WBC and low neutrophils (on average 20% below ref range) but I don't tend to get the fluctations you describe during periods of abstinence. My lymphocyte counts are normal. There certainly seems to be a few poisers with low neutrophils and I wonder how many as a %? My RBC is also on the low side (but only by a small %).
-
My gut becomes leaky for about 2 weeks~ following ejaculation if I recall correctly. This would probably put to bed any theory around a latent infection also in the GI tract. The POIS inflammatory storm is cleary making my gut temporarily leaky and thus susceptible to basically all plant foods. I explored this further with Claude AI:
Immune system dysregulation:
POIS is thought to involve an abnormal immune response triggered by ejaculation. This immune dysregulation could temporarily affect the gut-associated lymphoid tissue (GALT), leading to increased intestinal permeability ("leaky gut") and heightened sensitivity to food antigens.
Neuroinflammation:
If there is indeed a latent CNS infection, as you hypothesize, ejaculation might trigger its reactivation or exacerbation. This could lead to neuroinflammation, affecting the gut-brain axis and potentially altering the body's response to food antigens.
Mast cell activation:
POIS symptoms have been associated with mast cell activation in some cases. Mast cells play a role in both allergic responses and neuroinflammation. Their activation during POIS could lead to increased histamine release and food sensitivities.
Cytokine storm:
The immune response triggered by ejaculation in POIS patients might lead to a temporary cytokine storm. This could affect multiple systems, including the digestive system, leading to transient food sensitivities.
Autonomic nervous system dysfunction:
POIS might involve dysregulation of the autonomic nervous system, which could affect gut motility, secretion, and immune function, potentially leading to food sensitivities.
The temporary nature of these food sensitivities (disappearing after 14 days of abstinence) suggests that the underlying mechanism is reversible and directly linked to the POIS state. As the immune system and neuroinflammation settle down, the food sensitivities resolve.
To better understand this connection, you might consider:
Investigating inflammatory markers and cytokine levels during POIS episodes and comparing them to baseline.
Assessing gut permeability and microbiome composition during and outside of POIS episodes.
Evaluating mast cell activation markers during symptomatic periods.
Conducting neuroimaging studies to look for signs of neuroinflammation during POIS.
Testing for specific food antibodies during and outside of POIS episodes to see if there are measurable differences.
-
Low-Cholesterol Version of Animal-Based:
Goal is to reduce CVD risk while maintaining AB diet.
• Lean chicken breast – does not feel as good after eating red meat, and certainly not as satiating.
• Eggs
• Sardines
• Salmon
• 5% lean red meat
• Mussels, pawns, seafood mix, etc
• 1 avocado per day
• Olives
• Olive oil
• 1 cup max of full fat yoghurt
• Low-fat dairy
• Sweet potato is the least inflammatory starchy carbohydrate for me. Tested multiple times & they're significantly better than literally ALL other starchy carbohydrates inc. white rice, white potatoes, gluten, etc.
• All fruits including banana, apple, medjool dates, pears, orange juice, etc.
• Vegetables-like fruits including avocado, cucumber, etc.
• Saurkraut
• Kefir
Experiment list:
• 1 cup of nuts i.e., walnuts
• Restricted quantities of plant foods
• 1 carrot
• Etc
-
Hey Warrior,
So I had stopped taking fenugreek a while back when I realised it made me smell of it.
Well I had an O 3 days ago, Idk why but I was way too aroused and the O was very intense, it gave me quite strong POIS symptoms the past few days, more than usual, I think there is a correlation between arousal levels, O intensity levels and POIS level.
I felt really really bad yesterday, my testicles felt really sore and stinging then had the genius idea to take some fenugreek and in literally 10 seconds my testicle pain was gone.
I have a theory that maybe you can voice your opinion about, which is that anaphrodisiacs will dampen arousal levels, O intensity and eventually POIS symptoms. Actually I had read on this forum that fenugreek lowers O intensity. At the same time, I'm not sure about you but I suffer from PE, and I've noticed in the past that beer gave me more control, it happens to be an anaphrodisiac, muscle relaxant and increases mood. SSRIs increase mood, they lower libido and also happen to make people last longer.
I've been wondering if using these kind of anaphrodisiacs (well I don't really want to try SSRIs but the natural ones) might lower arousal, libido, PE and POIS symptoms.
The natural SSRIs also happen to lower libido.
I kinda feel obsessed with sex and my performance issues which are causing extra problems in my life, its been a couple years I've definitely been too obsessed with all sexual stuff, it would be nice to kinda take a break from sexual thoughts and focus on other things in life. My PE also makes me not want to go out and meet new people
-
Hey Warrior,
So I had stopped taking fenugreek a while back when I realised it made me smell of it.
Well I had an O 3 days ago, Idk why but I was way too aroused and the O was very intense, it gave me quite strong POIS symptoms the past few days, more than usual, I think there is a correlation between arousal levels, O intensity levels and POIS level.
I felt really really bad yesterday, my testicles felt really sore and stinging then had the genius idea to take some fenugreek and in literally 10 seconds my testicle pain was gone.
I have a theory that maybe you can voice your opinion about, which is that anaphrodisiacs will dampen arousal levels, O intensity and eventually POIS symptoms. Actually I had read on this forum that fenugreek lowers O intensity. At the same time, I'm not sure about you but I suffer from PE, and I've noticed in the past that beer gave me more control, it happens to be an anaphrodisiac, muscle relaxant and increases mood. SSRIs increase mood, they lower libido and also happen to make people last longer.
I've been wondering if using these kind of anaphrodisiacs (well I don't really want to try SSRIs but the natural ones) might lower arousal, libido, PE and POIS symptoms.
The natural SSRIs also happen to lower libido.
I kinda feel obsessed with sex and my performance issues which are causing extra problems in my life, its been a couple years I've definitely been too obsessed with all sexual stuff, it would be nice to kinda take a break from sexual thoughts and focus on other things in life. My PE also makes me not want to go out and meet new people
Yeah man apparently fenugreek makes your odour smell sweet or something. The raw garlic will definitely make you stink unless you limit it to 1/3 of a clove or so. Thats what I did when I used to take them.
There does appear to be a correlation with arousal levels and intensity of POIS symptoms.
Anaphrodisiacs might help POIS by lowering arousal and thus intensity of symptoms. Much of this stuff can vary on a case by case. So you really just need to experiment and find what works for you man.
I've had ejaculations in the past where the arousal was very low, and I did feel like it reduced my symptoms. I think it's the same concept behind why wet dreams don't seem to illicit as intense symptoms. They aren't going to be as arousally intense compared to a sober ejaculation.
Using anaphrodisiacs might help your PE and POIS symptoms. Can't hurt to try bro!
I think theres a big list of anaphrodisiacs and other things you can play around with for reducing libido. Meat and eggs will most likely increase libido. Look into fasting. I know for sure my libido gets absolutely tanked when I'm in a caloric deficit. Thats another huge factor. Your body doesn't want to have sex if you aren't getting enough food or it's too stressed out i.e., you're smashing your body with exercise etc. Those things might not be healthy long-term tho. A vegetarian diet would could work really well unless of course you have food sensitivities like I do...
As for the PE stuff, which is kind of a separate issue and I can't really speak on it because I've fortunately never had those issues but I will give you my advice that I told my buddy who struggles with the same problem:
You really just need to talk about it when it happens. Just embrace it. Don't try and act all cool in the moment playing it off etc. Just vocalise exactly how you're feeling. This is going to require vulnerability and honesty on your part. It might sting your ego a bit, but the pressure of wanting to perform etc and the ego involved in that is exactly what is probably causing the PE. If you're having sex, then you're having a relationship with that person. All relationships require honesty and vulnerability for true connection. Read the book Models by Mark Manson. This is also how you develop true confidence, which is the main concept taught in the book.
If you ejaculate too quickly, who cares? A women is only going to take that as a compliment. If you haven't satiated her yet, you can easily do foreplay and all sorts of juicy things to her after...
Another thing you can look into is kegal exercises. Taylor Johnson who teaches how to do an integrative semen retention lifestyle has videos on this that I would recommend. He also talks quite a bit about the topic of PE because he struggled a lot with it as well.
Totally something you can overcome bro. Even then I personally don't see it as a big deal or anything really to overcome, apart from the fact that you just got turned on so hard because she's so beautiful. Haha as I said I would just embrace it, and be ok being the dude who finished early but gave her the most mindblowing oral sex she's ever had.
Hope that helps. Take whatever helps you, feel free to discard if you don't resonate with it. ;)
-
Hey Warrior,
So I had stopped taking fenugreek a while back when I realised it made me smell of it.
Well I had an O 3 days ago, Idk why but I was way too aroused and the O was very intense, it gave me quite strong POIS symptoms the past few days, more than usual, I think there is a correlation between arousal levels, O intensity levels and POIS level.
I felt really really bad yesterday, my testicles felt really sore and stinging then had the genius idea to take some fenugreek and in literally 10 seconds my testicle pain was gone.
I have a theory that maybe you can voice your opinion about, which is that anaphrodisiacs will dampen arousal levels, O intensity and eventually POIS symptoms. Actually I had read on this forum that fenugreek lowers O intensity. At the same time, I'm not sure about you but I suffer from PE, and I've noticed in the past that beer gave me more control, it happens to be an anaphrodisiac, muscle relaxant and increases mood. SSRIs increase mood, they lower libido and also happen to make people last longer.
I've been wondering if using these kind of anaphrodisiacs (well I don't really want to try SSRIs but the natural ones) might lower arousal, libido, PE and POIS symptoms.
The natural SSRIs also happen to lower libido.
I kinda feel obsessed with sex and my performance issues which are causing extra problems in my life, its been a couple years I've definitely been too obsessed with all sexual stuff, it would be nice to kinda take a break from sexual thoughts and focus on other things in life. My PE also makes me not want to go out and meet new people
Yeah man apparently fenugreek makes your odour smell sweet or something. The raw garlic will definitely make you stink unless you limit it to 1/3 of a clove or so. Thats what I did when I used to take them.
There does appear to be a correlation with arousal levels and intensity of POIS symptoms.
Anaphrodisiacs might help POIS by lowering arousal and thus intensity of symptoms. Much of this stuff can vary on a case by case. So you really just need to experiment and find what works for you man.
I've had ejaculations in the past where the arousal was very low, and I did feel like it reduced my symptoms. I think it's the same concept behind why wet dreams don't seem to illicit as intense symptoms. They aren't going to be as arousally intense compared to a sober ejaculation.
Using anaphrodisiacs might help your PE and POIS symptoms. Can't hurt to try bro!
I think theres a big list of anaphrodisiacs and other things you can play around with for reducing libido. Meat and eggs will most likely increase libido. Look into fasting. I know for sure my libido gets absolutely tanked when I'm in a caloric deficit. Thats another huge factor. Your body doesn't want to have sex if you aren't getting enough food or it's too stressed out i.e., you're smashing your body with exercise etc. Those things might not be healthy long-term tho. A vegetarian diet would could work really well unless of course you have food sensitivities like I do...
As for the PE stuff, which is kind of a separate issue and I can't really speak on it because I've fortunately never had those issues but I will give you my advice that I told my buddy who struggles with the same problem:
You really just need to talk about it when it happens. Just embrace it. Don't try and act all cool in the moment playing it off etc. Just vocalise exactly how you're feeling. This is going to require vulnerability and honesty on your part. It might sting your ego a bit, but the pressure of wanting to perform etc and the ego involved in that is exactly what is probably causing the PE. If you're having sex, then you're having a relationship with that person. All relationships require honesty and vulnerability for true connection. Read the book Models by Mark Manson. This is also how you develop true confidence, which is the main concept taught in the book.
If you ejaculate too quickly, who cares? A women is only going to take that as a compliment. If you haven't satiated her yet, you can easily do foreplay and all sorts of juicy things to her after...
Another thing you can look into is kegal exercises. Taylor Johnson who teaches how to do an integrative semen retention lifestyle has videos on this that I would recommend. He also talks quite a bit about the topic of PE because he struggled a lot with it as well.
Totally something you can overcome bro. Even then I personally don't see it as a big deal or anything really to overcome, apart from the fact that you just got turned on so hard because she's so beautiful. Haha as I said I would just embrace it, and be ok being the dude who finished early but gave her the most mindblowing oral sex she's ever had.
Hope that helps. Take whatever helps you, feel free to discard if you don't resonate with it. ;)
Nice one thanks for the advice, I don't think vegeterianism or fasting is good for me though, I need grounding foods, actually I became manic this march when I fasted the last 2 days of ramadan. I know fasting can work for some people but im already naturally skinny (although not atm with meds) so it just makes me lose too much weight, in hindsight I shouldn't have fasted this year but I guess we learn.
And yeh I agree with what you said about PE, i've been kinda too preoccupied by it recently idk why
-
Nice one thanks for the advice, I don't think vegeterianism or fasting is good for me though, I need grounding foods, actually I became manic this march when I fasted the last 2 days of ramadan. I know fasting can work for some people but im already naturally skinny (although not atm with meds) so it just makes me lose too much weight, in hindsight I shouldn't have fasted this year but I guess we learn.
And yeh I agree with what you said about PE, i've been kinda too preoccupied by it recently idk why
Look into sexual energy transmutation techniques and move the energy away from your groin. That should also help with any excessive horniness.
-
I think my probiotic "MegaSporeBiotic" which was first recommended to me by my functional specialist may be improving my sensitivities. Too early to tell, but I haven't taken anything all day except for this and noticed a totally unexpected improvement in my sensitivities today. I also took it yesterday as I've been trying to increase probiotics.
Either that or it was the minerals and nutrients in the sweet potato or chicken breast I had. Surely not tho lmao.
https://dralexrinehart.com/articles/the-megasporebiotic-leaky-gut-study/
On the note of leaky gut, my main hypothesis at the moment is that the systemic inflammation from POIS is making my gut leaky. When POIS completely goes away (when I abstain for >7 days or so), my sensitivities improve sharply.
Pathogenic infection > POIS > systemic inflammation > leaky gut > food sensitivities
Edit: seems to improve food sensitivities, not perfectly, at least not for gluten during POIS period, but does appear to be improving things. Probiotics in general can take a while to establish themselves in the gut, so I plan on giving it at least 3-6 months or so.
Edit 16/07/24: gut is still leaky with gluten, not sure about a glutenfree diet though. will continue taking it for a while anyway 3-6 months
-
I stopped D3 supplements for a few weeks to give my body a break from supplements. Knowing my levels would drop, I was anticipating the inevitable increase of POIS/food sensitivity symptoms. I'm going to use this as an opportunity to test the D3 level which I can then document as the level at which my symptoms begin getting worst.
Journal entry:
First day of experiencing a significant worstening of symptoms in regards to facial tensions after eating (all I had as well was a banana smoothie with bananas and milk). Feels like my face is disjointed is how I would describe it. Optimal D3 fixes this (the optimal level of which I haven't yet identified but will do so through this). So tomorrow I am going to get the serum level tested so I can establish the lowest serum level of D3 that begins worstening my POIS symptoms. If I continued ceasing D3 supplements, my symptoms would only get gradually worst from this point on. The facial disjointed symptoms are basically the beginning of that.
I've been wanting to do this for a long time, so I can know exactly what level of D3 serum I should never drop below, and what D3 serum level is optimal but safe. It seems like with my POIS the benefits of D3 serum plateu at some point, so it's not intelligence to have excessively high D3 levels unless of course they helped POIS, but I believe the benefits plateu at a certain level probably way before 100ng/mL.
(https://i.gyazo.com/8b5d2250d0f541c75fc0600547626fb6.png)
Reference (https://vitamindwiki.com/Is+50+ng+of+vitamin+D+too+high%2C+just+right%2C+or+not+enough#Overview_of_the_controversy)
So according to this, and based upon the hypothesis that POIS is caused by an infection, a serum level of 50ng/mL is probably optimal. Will be interesting to see what my serum level currently is for facial symptoms to begin worstening.
Here's a reference to my past journal entry regarding D3 fixing specific symptoms, paying attention to red highlighted:
Dialling up my D3 has fixed the following POIS and food sensitivity symptoms:
- Fatigued throat which would occur especially after eating non AB foods
- Vastly improved body aches - at one point my body aches were intensifying a lot and couldn't figure out why. Most likely due to D3 levels dropping.
- Fixed weird facial tensions I experience with food sensitivities
- Improvement in mood overall, especially in reducing auditory thought (mental noise)
- Improved intensity of food sensitivity symptoms, but hasn't been able to stop it all together i.e., I still experience mood drops and a very distinct almost flight or fight response activation, even though it has been improved.
Thus, the goal is to identify:
1) The D3 serum level (25-hydroxy-vitamin D) where POIS symptoms (and food sensitivitiy symptoms) begin worstening (the current serum level at the time I am posting this, which will be tested tomorrow 2/07/24)
2) The D3 serum level (25-hydroxy-vitamin D) that provides the highest amount of relief from POIS symptoms that is also safe (a bit trickier to identify because you don't really know the potential of D3 until you max it out at 150ng/mL at least, but this is dangerous without medical supervision... the optimal safe and plateu point is probably somewhere between 50-70ng/mL)
The idea would then be to establish a consistent dosing schedule that keeps you in safe optimal range. This would optimise immune's response to POIS (permanently keeping symptoms in optimal line) while not increasing your risk of hypercalcemia and other hyper-D3 side-effects (as the serum levels are controlled and won't go above X high risk level).
-
Raw garlic and fenugreek continue working to fix my food sensitivity induced tinnitus. I've been having a break from SAMe, but all of these (SAMe, fenugreek, and garlic) all work very well on the tinnitus symptoms of my POIS food sensitivities. Also a boost in energy and clarity from the raw garlic and fenugreek.
The effects of SAMe has definitely diminished compared to when I first took it unfortunately. When I first took SAMe, it is as if it completely cured me of POIS and food sensitivities for a few weeks. It was astonishing. Even after trying a tonne of different methylation nutrients, nothing seemed to fix the inevitable homeostatic return to symptoms it seems. It has continued to provide a permanent relief of my POIS symptoms, and when I stop taking it for a while I do notice a difference, but it doesn't perfectly alleviate all symptoms like it did for those first 3-4 weeks, which was an absolute dreeam.
Today when I take SAMe daily, it seems like the need for garlic and fenugreek goes down drastically. As if it is somehow fixing or at least helping the body to fix whatever is causing the tinnitus, so the garlic and fenugreek are no longer needed in those instances.
Regardless, raw garlic, fenugreek, and SAMe all have beneficial effects on my POIS / food sensitivity. Hard to pinpoint exactly how all of these work & what symptoms exactly each one helps with because there is so much overlap and synergy taking place.
-
I think I may have downplayed the importance of timing fenugreek and garlic before or immediately after release. Probs lost the picture and became too complacent amongst testing a billion other things. Double checking this next time. I could be wrong, but want to double check so adding to the todo.
I remember in the past when I first tried fenugreek and garlic (of which I would time correctly to release) I distinctively remember the first time I tried it I woke up with energy in the body, not feeling like I was sunk into my bed (which does go away faster these days), but I do think it may be because I've more treated the fenugreek and garlic on an 'as needed' basis since discovering the SAMe... but now I'm thinking I may have been downplaying its importance, especially regarding timing.
Everything in my stack synergistically works to fix my POIS in different ways. The diet is to reduce the inflammatory load from the leaky gut thats temporarily caused from POIS. But it may even be possible that the fenugreek and garlic somehow inhibit the POIS cascade from occuring all together when timed correctly. Something I need to experiment with again that I may have forgotten while testing other variables.
The way my method works may look something like this (take with a grain of salt if your reading this, its mostly for my documentation purposes):
1. Inhibit POIS cascade via fenugreek & garlic. SAMe also appeared to perfectly inhibit cascade, but only worked temporarily for a few weeks (though still provided a significant improvement overall to symptom intensity to this very date)
2. If POIS cascade does occur (fenugreek & garlic arent timed correctly/SAMe stopped working fully), inflammatory storm occurs:
* Gut becomes leaky and thus AB diet is best solution during this time period. Food sensitivities go after after 1.5-2 weeks or so.
* Significant immune response requires high D3 serum to optimally combat POIS problem (>=50ng/mL at least - still being tested)
* POIS inflammation appears to deplete methylation nutrients, so B complex and SAMe are beneficial
* POIS depletes important micronutrients, eggs and red meat are beneficial
Edit: nevermind, doesn't seem to impact much regarding timing. Can still be beneficial to take tho, but doesn't appear to be much of a difference regarding timing.
-
Turns out I'm pretty sure that my B complex has been giving me social apathy/anhedonia like symptoms. Ever since I've taken a break from it (many weeks now), I haven't ran into any social apathy issues, even while releasing. It might be a dosage frequency thing and also combining it with eggs might just be too many methyl nutrients at once. I initially thought that eggs were giving me social apathy, but this only seems to occur when I was taking the B complex frequently, so probably an overload of certain nutrients.
With that being said, I've also noticed a fairly moderate increase in brainfog since stopping it. I deliberately stopped it for a while because I don't think having chronic highly elevated B vitamins is probably good for you long-term, even though they are water soluble. They're probably depleting other nutrients as well when the levels are out of a natural range.
Seeking Health's 'methyl free' B complex would be good to try, but I don't tolerate folinic acid well it seems. So will try Nature's Own Super B complex which is methyl free (non-active) and it's also lower dosed then the Ultra B 150 Forte that I've been taking, which I think is safer for the body long-term.
Edit: Tried Nature's Own Super B Complex this morning (I bought it a year or two ago so I just tried it from my collection), and it just doesn't give me as much clarity as the Ultra B 150 Forte. Definitely an improvement, but not as good. Unfortunately though, the Ultra B 150 Forte seems to worsten my social apathy. Maybe I will limit the dosages to twice a week.
-
I've noticed quite a few times now that whenever I may have lingering mild symptoms (days 0-3) post release, I always feel significantly better after doing some kind of physical labour. I noticed this with my old warehouse job (simply going to work and finishing the day a lot clearer) and labouring job. Breathing, lifting, and moving seem to be very good for POIS recovery. Getting out and about. It's common sense really but just wanted to write this in here as it can be overlooked. Compare this to sitting down and being sedentary. Can make a big difference I've noticed on multiple occaisions.
-
I think the B complex I've been taking for quite some time now has been giving my social apathy, and I didn't realise it. This is the danger of taking supplements religiously without breaks. I've learnt it's always a good idea to have breaks from supplements just to be sure that none of them are effecting you negatively.
Having removed it from my stack for a while now to take a break, I no longer experience apathy or anhedonia, even from eating normal foods. I still do experience body aches and some amount of mood disturbances sometimes from food. It can vary quite a lot, but I don't actually experience apathy or anhedonia. Usually it's a feeling of my nervous system becoming activated (like heightened anxiety or I'm more on edge then usual), which seems to dissipate after an hour or two if it does arise.
I don't really take any supplements religiously now. I just keep an eye on my protocol in general, and if I see symptoms getting worst over time, I refer back to my stack and decide which nutrient I might be low on i.e., B vitamins, SAMe, or D3... I of course will always keep a good eye on D3 serum levels for the forseeable future as well, whne getting bloods done.
I haven't found a replacement B complex yet for this 150 B forte thats giving me apathy. I get very strong anhedonia from active/methylated B vitamins, so maybe the methyl B12 in this B complex is the culprit, who knows. So at the moment, my B vitamin stack is basically non existent lol. I have definitely seen the increase in brainfog since stopping it, but the fog is certainly exasterbated when eating foods I get a reaction to. Overall tho it aint that bad, and I feel better without it but long-term would be on the look out for a decent replacement.
I think I have been conflating those apathy symptoms with POIS, when really they were caused by the B complex.
-
Zinc supplementation may be improving my food sensitivities. Need to inquire deeper into this. May also be why I feel so good when eating red meat.
-
Have you tried Aspirin for POIS?
-
Have you tried Aspirin for POIS?
Nah, but was planning on trying some pharmeceuticals purely to understand what may be going on with the inflammatory pathways.
-
Immune Therapy Retreat Experience & Immune Stack (Post Work in Progress)
Medical Disclaimer:
This information is for personal documentation purposes only, not medical advice. The author is not a healthcare professional. Readers should conduct independent research, consult a qualified specialist knowledgeable about POIS, and exercise personal judgment before taking any action. Use this information at your own risk.
Bee Venom Disclaimer:
This post contains information about my experience with bee venom therapy. Bee venom therapy is not without risk and can be deadly (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/bee-stings/symptoms-causes/syc-20353869#:~:text=Severe%20allergic%20reaction,-A%20severe%20allergic&text=A%20small%20percentage%20of%20people,Difficulty%20breathing). Always consult with an informed GP and apitherapist if you decide to explore this therapy.
Please take the above cautions seriously. Much of this protocol is experimentative in the pursuit to cure my own POIS. This post is really for my own personal documentation purposes, but I think others may also find it useful for collecting ideas for their own immune therapy. Many of these risks can be averted with common sense, regular pathology testing, and medical specialist oversight, but ultimately undergoing this protocol still carries risk like anything else in life.
Overview
I went to a 5-day immune therapy retreat, which included a bunch of different therapies. I also took many of my existing immune supplements for an extra push and support.
5-day Immune Therapy Retreat (22nd-27th July 2024):
––Bee sting therapy (began slowly and built up to 12 stings on the 4th day). I worked with an experienced apitherapist to deliberately target my prostate, perineum, back of the head (targetting the trigeminal nerve (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg48830;topicseen#msg48830)), and key acupuncture points. Yes the perineum was painful.
––Photodynamic therapy to kill potential aberrant cells around my prostate, base of the penis, and perineum. I took a strong Chinese antioxidant drink (sea buckthorn, mulberry, black plum, perilla, dandelion, wolfberry, honey suckle, and citric acid, sodium citrate) spread across 4 days to help with detoxification.
––Vitamin C IV (Did this once on the 3rd day or so. Didn't feel any different, but was good to get done.)
––Electromagnetic acupuncture
––Ozone therapy w/ ozone sauna and water
*For any aussies reading this, the retreat is in Cooma, NSW. Happy to give you the details if you're interested!
Supplements:
I have highlighted in green what I think are the most important supplements for a comprehensive immune stack, based on Nanna1's ICT and my own functional medicine specialist's recommendations. I took these to give my body and immune system an extra push during the retreat.
––D3 21,000iu & D3 co-factors (K2 2mg & magnesium elemental 400mg) Warning: 21,000iu is a high dose of D3. This is not advisable long-term without regular pathology testing and medical oversight. For more info, you can learn about the Coimbra protocol (https://www.coimbraprotocol.com/) & other online high dose D3 therapies. Ultimately you want to get your D3 serum to at least 50-70ng/mL. Vitamin D3 wiki (https://vitamindwiki.com/Is+50+ng+of+vitamin+D+too+high%2C+just+right%2C+or+not+enough#Overview_of_the_controversy) is another useful resource.
––Vitamin C 0.5-2g -> megadosing, ideally buffered, liposomal, or IV. (Nanna1 megadosed vitamin C in his ICT to maximise symptoms. Choline in liposomal makes me feel a bit weird and eery.)
––Zinc 40mg (Caution: not advisable to take daily long-term, especially without copper. Zinc to copper ratio is important.)
––NAC 2g (Immune juggernaut, excellent for breaking down biofilms, and backed by a tonne of research. 2g spread throughout the day and taken for 5-10 days is enough to break down biofilms. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W7xurqEsIQ) Caution: Can cause anhedonia, deplete vital minerals, and other side-effects with long-term usage. I feel more comfortable pulsing NAC e.g., 5-10 days on, then take a break, etc. GlyNAC may also be useful.)
––Immuno Complex by Quality of Life (notably the Andrographis & AHCC) recommended by Nanna1 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg31889#msg31893) *My AHCC actually ran out on the 3rd day, taking 1 per day.
––Beta-glucan 1-3g
––Propolis 1g
––Monolaurin 1-3g
*Increase dosages (safely) to maximise symptoms until they clear, which is a strategy Nanna1 utilised in his ICT to clear individual POIS symptoms (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg33167#msg33167).
––Glutathione 500mg (NAC, regular glutathione, liposomal glutathione, & glutathione IV are all options with different rates of effectiveness per individual.)
––Cordyceps 1-2 capsules (brand quality is important for medicinal muchrooms. I bought mine from Oriveda. I'd focus on getting Nanna1's recommended AHCC over cordyceps for an immune stack. These are expensive and I won't personally be buying them again, unless I realise an obvious benefit in hindsight.)
––IgG by MicrobiomeLabs 1-2 pills
––Royal jelly 2-4 pills (contains spermidine)
––Clove, echinacea, and turmeric blend for anti-fungal 2-4 pills (only actually began this on day 5 as we were contemplating a potential fungal cause of POIS)
––Ginger and cinnamon 2-4 pills
––Raw garlic and fenugreek
––Schisandra
Custom Made TCM Herb Mixture by Chinese Doctor (Yin Deficiency):
Boiled in pot of water, and drank a few cups daily
––Anemarrhena Asphodeloides 15g
––Phellodendron amurense 15g
––Alisma orientalis 15g
––Poria cocos 20g
––Danpi 10g
––Rehmannia 20g
––Chinese yam 20g
––Asiatic cornelian cherry fruit 20g
––Practitioner added extra fenugreek
Probiotics:
––MegaSporeBiotic by MicrobiomeLabs
––Probiotic drink
Effectiveness:
I will evaluate the effectiveness of this treatment over time. It's too early to tell yet and I wanted to document everything here early so I don't forget the details, especially if this does turn out to be very effective long-term. I do believe I am seeing improvements but I have no idea whether thats from my supplements, the immune therapies I explored on the retreat, or perhaps a combination of both. I plan on running an immune therapy stack longer term, but need to decide what is actually intelligent, safe, and convenient to take long-term. I think this immune therapy process should be intuitive.
Bee venom therapy is a practice from traditional chinese medicine (TCM) which is still practiced today in Chinese hospitals for a range of different medical conditions. I will update this page at some point with good resources to learn more about it.
Why immune therapy?
I think we have a plethora of evidence now to suggest that the cause of POIS is most likely pathogenic in nature. Of the small amount of people who have successfully cured their POIS, it is mostly from treatments that involve the immune system or killing something. Think antibiotics, Nanna1's immune competence therapy, probiotic and dietary interventions, etc. These all relate to the immune system and clearing some kind of infection. I also have chronically low neutrophils (neutropenia), which btw we've seen in many other POIS patients. This can be indicative of some kind of chronic infection. When you haven't actually identified what needs killing (the lack of medical research and information around POIS), then immune therapies are probably the safest way to take care of these unknown infections. Build up the innate immune system to take care of the issue on it's own. Traditional medicine have been doing this for thousands of years. They of course never had pathology.
-
Megadosing vitamin C is something I have definitely overlooked in my explorations for immune therapies. Researching now.
This stuff is just too exciting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjrl5PKNgE
Nanna1 also spoke about megadosing vitamin C in his ICT: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg33167#msg33167
I believe he did that orally, although he also recommended the IV. The IV is not going to be convenient for most people here. Megadosing oral vitamin C is still a good therapy to explore, in addition to other immune therapies.
-
I mentioned in the past that either monolaurin or AHCC was improving my symptoms, but couldn't figure out which one. When I isolated them, they didn't seem to be as effective. Well I've ran out of AHCC, but took some routine monolaurin alongside some propolis, clove, echinacea, turmeric, and royal jelly. I was experiencing some mild symptoms from a non AB dinner I just ate, especially brainfog. Felt a huge improvement in clarity immediately after having these. Something is definitely working at the immune/pathogenic level when it comes to this killers. They seem to work best when taken in combination with each other i.e., NAC, monolaurin, AND propolis, etc.
The main goal of my immune stack and therapy is to clear whatever is causing POIS, but it does seem so that some of these immune supplements do offer immediate relief of my symptoms. Whether it's worth isolating them and identifying exactly which combinations are most effective is probably a waste of time at this point as the main goal is to clear POIS (and food sensitivities) permanently (which is probably going to require a holistic immune stack of supplements/therapies which do not necessarily offer immediate relief).
Old post for reference:
Continuing to have some pretty profound results from Monolaurin. I am surprised this hasn't been spoken about more on here or at the subreddit.
It is a potent anti-viral, is relatively cheap and fairly safe (you still need to use it responsibly). I am eating normal food and it's wiping away my sensitivities. It's still very early, but extremely promising results thus far and would recommend others give it a go.
My approach now is very focused on anti-viral/anti-bacterial, infection related. Still taking many Nanna1 and immune supplements (cycling many).
Monolaurin dosage guide: https://www.monolaurinandmore.com/monolaurin-dosage
How does Monolaurin work?
Monolaurin research suggests it is able to inactivate lipid-coated viruses such as herpes, cytomegalovirus, influenza, and various pathogenic bacteria and protozoa in lab settings [Ref #1, 2, 3, 11, 12].
Monolaurin purportedly works by binding to the lipid-protein envelope of the virus, thereby preventing it from attaching and entering host cells, making infection and replication impossible [Ref #2]. Other studies suggest that monolaurin disintegrates the protective viral envelope, killing the virus [Ref #13].
Monolaurin has Generally Recognized As Safe (GRAS) status and is considered to be nontoxic. It is effective against
many microorganisms and can be taken on a daily basis, given
that evidence suggests it does not create antiviral or antibacterial resistance.
The general recommended adult dose of monolaurin is 1–3 g.
Higher amounts can be used to achieve desired results if necessary. It is safe for children (ages 3–10) with the recommended
dose being smaller—30 mg, one to three times per day. Monolaurin is available as minipellets that should be swallowed and not
chewed.19
-
The immune stack is definitely working better then my previous original method. In hindsight, my original method's purpose worked to improve symptoms by replenishing the body of lost nutrients from the chronic inflammation (methylation, vitamin B's, SAMe, D3) and to stop throwing fuel on the fire of a leaky gut (animal-based). A leaky gut seems to react to almost ALL plant foods, but once it seals up, all sensitivies dissappear (as is the case when I abstain - the systemic inflammation from POIS goes away and my gut seals up again).
I don't really know exactly what's working within the immune stack as I am just taking a bunch of different things, but I've released a few times in a short period now and am getting some very strong repeatable results, much better then my original method because this seems to be stopping the systemic inflammation alltogether (or at least improving it to prevent the typical POIS recovery period & systemic leaky gut), making my gut significantly less leaky and thus improving my food sensitivities.
Immune stack -> primes immune system & kills (at the very least - temporarily) problematic pathogens related to POIS -> stops systemic inflammation -> no POIS symptoms or gut leakyness -> can eat normal foods just fine
At the moment if I go off the immune stack, my symptoms do appear to be in full swing still. It's a huge difference.
The ultimate goal of the immune stack is really to work as a therapy to clear the problematic pathogens causing POIS, just as Nanna1 described in his ICT thread. I can't say this for everyone, but for my own case of POIS, it's very clear that problematic pathogens are causing my POIS. My case seems to be almost identical to Nanna1's (with differences in symptoms), especially as we both have/had neutropenia from POIS.
When I megadose vitamin C orally, I experience immune stimulation (body aches and a sore throat). So I am simply just following the lead of Nanna1 with using many of these immune supplements therapeutically. I truly do believe this is the way to cure my POIS.
I also don't think taking an immune stack in low quantities (like I did in the past), even if daily, will resolve POIS. You need something more powerful and intense like megadosing vitamin C as opposed to 1mg of vitamin C. Follow what stimulates your immune activity, and push it. Obviously all with common sense (safety) and a bit of intuition. For AHCC, rather than taking 1 pill daily, best to set aside half a day and just experiment with the dosages. Does 1, 2, 3 or 6 g stimulate your immune system? Etc. This is the approach Nanna1 casually talks about in his ICT thread, but he doesn't actually lay it out in the protocol. I think this is paramount for this kind of treatment to work.
-
Asked Claude AI: "Which nutrients are best for helping the body to clear chronic infections?"
- Vitamin C: Supports various cellular functions of the immune system.
- Vitamin D: Modulates innate and adaptive immune responses.
- Zinc: Critical for normal development and function of immune cells.
- Selenium: Important for optimal immune response.
- Vitamin A: Helps maintain mucosal barriers and supports immune cell function.
- Omega-3 fatty acids: May help resolve inflammation and support immune function.
- N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC): Precursor to glutathione, may support detoxification and immune function.
- Iron: Essential for proper immune cell function, though supplementation should be carefully monitored.
- Vitamin E: Acts as an antioxidant and may enhance T cell function.
- Probiotics: Can support gut health and potentially modulate immune responses.
- Quercetin: A flavonoid with antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties that may enhance immune function.
- Curcumin: The active compound in turmeric, known for its anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects.
- Berberine: An alkaloid compound with antimicrobial properties found in several plants.
- Glutamine: An amino acid that serves as fuel for immune cells and helps maintain gut barrier function.
- Arginine: Another amino acid that may enhance T-cell function and wound healing.
- Beta-glucans: Found in mushrooms and yeasts, they can stimulate innate immune responses.
- Colostrum: Rich in immunoglobulins and growth factors, it may support immune function.
- Echinacea: An herb that may stimulate the immune system, though evidence is mixed.
- Garlic: Contains allicin, which has antimicrobial properties.
- Green tea catechins: May have antimicrobial and immunomodulatory effects.
1. Melatonin: Beyond its role in sleep regulation, melatonin has immunomodulatory and antioxidant properties.
2. Resveratrol: Found in grapes and berries, it may have anti-inflammatory and immune-supporting effects.
3. Lactoferrin: An iron-binding protein with antimicrobial and immunomodulatory properties.
4. Alpha-lipoic acid: A potent antioxidant that may support mitochondrial function and immune health.
5. Coenzyme Q10: Important for cellular energy production and may support immune function.
6. Sulforaphane: Found in cruciferous vegetables, it may enhance antioxidant defenses and support detoxification.
7. Olive leaf extract: Contains oleuropein, which has shown antimicrobial properties in some studies.
8. Ginger: Contains compounds with anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects.
9. Lysine: An amino acid that may be particularly helpful in managing herpes virus infections.
10. Mannose: A sugar that may help prevent urinary tract infections by inhibiting bacterial adherence.
Additional considerations in managing chronic infections:
- Biofilm disruptors: Compounds like NAC, EDTA, or enzymes that may help break down bacterial biofilms.
- Mitochondrial support: As chronic infections can impact cellular energy production.
- Addressing co-infections: Often, chronic infections involve multiple pathogens.
- Managing oxidative stress: Through both nutritional and lifestyle interventions.
- Supporting detoxification pathways: To help manage the burden of endotoxins and exotoxins.
- Considering the gut-immune axis: Supporting gut health may indirectly benefit overall immune function.
"What are the most potent, powerful, and big-picture?"
When considering the most potent, powerful, and big-picture approaches for addressing chronic infections, several key elements stand out:
1. Vitamin D: Its profound effects on immune modulation and overall health make it a cornerstone of immune support.
2. Zinc: Critical for multiple aspects of immune function and often depleted in chronic conditions.
3. N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC): As a precursor to glutathione and a biofilm disruptor, it addresses multiple aspects of infection management.
4. Omega-3 fatty acids: Their anti-inflammatory effects and role in resolving inflammation are crucial for long-term health.
5. Probiotics/Gut health support: Given the integral role of the gut in immune function, this is a foundational aspect of treatment.
6. Curcumin: Its broad anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects make it a powerful adjunct.
7. Quercetin: Offers antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and potential antiviral properties.
8. Melatonin: Beyond sleep regulation, its antioxidant and immunomodulatory roles are increasingly recognized as important.
9. Mitochondrial support (e.g., CoQ10, alpha-lipoic acid): Addressing cellular energy production is crucial for overall resilience.
10. Vitamin C: Its role in immune function and as an antioxidant makes it a key player, especially in high doses.
These elements are considered powerful because they:
- Address multiple aspects of immune function and overall health
- Have broad-spectrum effects that can benefit various types of infections
- Offer synergistic effects when combined
- Support the body's intrinsic healing mechanisms rather than just targeting pathogens
Most importantly, what are the therapeutic dosages?
**What are therapeutic dosages?**
- Vitamin D:
- 5,000-10,000 IU daily, with monitoring of blood levels
- Target serum level: 50-80 ng/mL
- Zinc:
- 30-50 mg elemental zinc daily
- Higher doses (up to 75-100 mg) for short periods during acute phases
- N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC):
- 600-1800 mg daily, divided into 2-3 doses
- Omega-3 fatty acids:
- 2-4 g of combined EPA/DHA daily
- Curcumin:
- 500-1500 mg daily of bioavailable forms (e.g., with piperine or as phytosome)
- Quercetin:
- 500-1000 mg daily
- Melatonin:
- 3-20 mg at bedtime (higher doses are sometimes used in specific protocols)
- Coenzyme Q10:
- 100-300 mg daily
- Alpha-lipoic acid:
- 300-600 mg daily
- Vitamin C:
- 1-3 g daily, divided doses
- Some protocols use much higher doses (10-20 g or more) intravenously
**Clearing chronic infections?**
- Vitamin C:
- IV therapy: 25-75 g per session, 2-3 times weekly
- Oral: Up to bowel tolerance, often 4-10 g daily in divided doses
- Vitamin D:
- Loading dose: 50,000 IU daily for 5-7 days
- Maintenance: 10,000-20,000 IU daily
- Monitor blood levels closely, aiming for 70-100 ng/mL
- Zinc:
- 75-100 mg daily for 1-2 weeks, then reduce to 30-50 mg
- Often combined with 1-2 mg of copper for balance
- N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC):
- 1800-2400 mg daily in divided doses
- Quercetin:
- 1000-3000 mg daily in divided doses
- Berberine:
- 1000-1500 mg daily in divided doses
- Artemisinin (for certain parasitic infections):
- 200-400 mg twice daily, often used in cycles
- Olive Leaf Extract:
- 1000-1500 mg daily (standardized to 20% oleuropein)
- Allicin (from garlic):
- 600-1200 mg daily
- Colloidal Silver (controversial, use with caution):
- 1-2 teaspoons of 10-30 ppm solution, 1-3 times daily
-
Interesting resouce on Vitamin C Q/A: https://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v14n12.shtml
How much vitamin C should I take?
"The amount of oral ascorbic acid (vitamin C) tolerated by a patient without producing diarrhea (loose bowels) increases somewhat proportionately to the stress or toxicity of his disease" and "stressful conditions of any kind greatly increase utilization of vitamin C." In other words, the sicker or more stressed you are, the more vitamin C you will "hold" before getting to saturation (bowel tolerance). Bowel tolerance is indicated by gas, a rumbling stomach, or slightly loose stool.
I have an infection. What can I do?
Whenever "infection" or "-itis" is part of my doctor's diagnosis, I take saturation level (bowel tolerance) vitamin C until the infection is gone. In high doses, vitamin C works like an antibiotic, antiviral, antihistamine, and antipyretic (fever reducer) without the possible dangerous side effects of pharmaceutical drugs. So, if my doctor hands me a prescription for any of these, I go home and take saturation-level doses of vitamin C instead until my symptoms go away. As my dad Andrew Saul says, "Take enough C to be symptom free whatever the amount may be." I know I can always go fill the doctor's prescription, but I am much more comfortable trying a safe, essential vitamin first.
Claude AI on lipsomal vitamin C versus regular vitamin C:
Bowel tolerance primarily applies to regular (non-liposomal) vitamin C.
As doses increase, less is absorbed through the intestinal transporters, and more remains in the gut, potentially causing osmotic diarrhea.
Liposomal vitamin C is designed to bypass the typical intestinal absorption limitations.
The liposomes protect the vitamin C, allowing it to be absorbed differently - potentially through the lymphatic system or by fusion with cell membranes.
This mechanism may indeed allow liposomal vitamin C to surpass the typical bowel tolerance limits.
-
So far I think I've also undervalued probiotics and prebiotics.
I used to take kefir but didn't stick with it for long enough.
Going to begin a probiotic section of the immune therapy: raw kefir, saurakraut, & megasporebiotic (of which i have been taking this megasporebiotic for a while, but want to add in kefir, saurkraut, and make sure I'm hitting prebiotics daily which I've probably neglected). I think a solid variety of probiotics will go a long way in an immune therapy. The trick to probiotics is finding the right ones for you, which is obviously tricky. But they're out there.
1. Boost immune system by optimising the classic immune nutrients: D3 serum to 70ng/mL, vitamin C megadosing to bowel tolerance, NAC, & direct glutathione (acetyl glutathione). These are definitely the most important, but others may also include zinc, selenium, glutatmine, melatonin, etc. I also have a POIS friend I met through my YT channel, he has a lot of success with glutathione IV if you can afford it.
2. Stimulate long-term immune activity through immunostimulant herbs including AHCC, andrographis, beta-glucans, medicine mushrooms, etc.
3. Inhibit POIS infections through benign antimicrobials. It's very difficult to identify exactly what pathogens are causing POIS. Using antibiotics for POIS is dangerous and risky without being able to identify what you are killing. Thus, I think testing a wide range of somewhat benign natural antimicrobials for immediate POIS symptoms is useful. For example, raw garlic, monolaurin, propolis, cordyceps, etc. Pathogens also often have biofilms which is why perhaps certain combinations of antimicrobials work better than when administered alone.
3. Smash the gut microbiome with new beneficial bacteria and the corresponding prebiotics for it to feed: raw fermented kefir, raw fermented sauerkraut, megasporebiotic probiotic, & any other good probiotics you can grab ahold of. Larger variety, probably the better. Will be researching this more.
-
Officially retiring my B complex (Nature's Own Ultra B 150 Forte). I think it no longer serves me and is unecessary. It still helps me in certain ways, but unfortunately makes me socially apathetic, which I confused for while as POIS symptoms.
Methylation nutrients are still very powerful for POIS. From here on, I will continue to supplement the most important onces (when needed) which have seemingly worked very well for me. I usually only take methyl nutrients 1-2x per week these days:
--B12 (methylcobalamin), Folate (folic acid), & B6
--Choline (by eating eggs)
--SAMe
I now need to confirm at some point that none of these actually cause me the side-effects I was experiencing when taking the B complex. This is why it's just so important to take breaks with supplements lol.
Also it's worth mentioning, whenever I stop taking methyl donors for a while, my tinnitus gets much much more worst. The only fix I have found to my tinnitus is methyl donors (B complex, SAMe etc)
-
Magnesium:
More than likely very deficient. My last blood serum was low. Since then I have tried supplementing daily but have been quite forgetful at times. Magnesium deficiencies are also notoriously difficult to replenish, which can take up to a full year to begin seeing results... My AB diet is definitely another risk factor, as well as high dose D3 as it eats up magnesium.
Magnesium deficiency also bottlenecks methylation and D3. In addition to daily supplementation, I'm going to begin doing "Transdermal Magnesium Therapy" which is a fancy word to describe bathing with magnesium salts and/or getting a magnesium oil you can apply to your body.
Article on magnesium priming the immune system to fight cancer and infections:
Magnesium may prime the immune system to fight cancer and infections (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/magnesium-may-prime-the-immune-system-to-fight-cancer-and-infections)
-
High Doses of Vitamin D Can Deplete Magnesium (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRjBPuj4q6I)
-
--- Update ---
I have found Cordyceps from Oriveda to be very powerful for my POIS and food sensitivities (credit to r/7e7en87 from the POIS subreddit for recommending). I've tested this a few times now and it definitely works. So I will be adding it to my official protocol going forward. I don't tend to need to take much either, maybe 500mg (2 pills) per day or so. I think it has also reduced the leakiness of my gut as a result. I have no idea how it's working, but it's an antimicrobial and an adaptogen.
Sourcing is also very important when it comes to medicinal mushrooms, so if you're going to give it a go I recommend buying from Oriveda or RealMushrooms. Other high quality brands would also exist, but these are the main two I remember from research.
I'm also working on elevating glutathione at the moment. I think it's an underrated immune big dog, and can take a few weeks to actually increase to optimal levels. My current protocol for elevating glutathione:
--NAC 1-1.5g (spread throughout the day) for 1-2 weeks then cycle off for at least 1-2 weeks with Acetyl Glutathione 100mg daily.
--Repeat until glutathione levels are in optimal range.
--Ensure you also have adequate co-factor nutrients: vitamin C, vitamin E, B complex & NAD, selenium, zinc, molybdenum, glycine, magnesium, & copper.
--NAC chelates minerals, so supplementing them is a must if you take it for a long period.
--Cycling NAC is also recommended to avoid side-effects, which is why switching to Acetyl Glutathione (a bioavailable form of glutathione) is beneficial. Can be a bit pricey tho.
--- Not a doc, follow at your own risk ---
-
Pharmacological actions of Cordyceps, a prized folk medicine
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1211/jpp.57.12.0001
-
Pharmacological actions of Cordyceps, a prized folk medicine
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1211/jpp.57.12.0001
And yet many will claim traditional chinese medicine is bullshit. Now imagine how many medicinal compounds are out there that science is yet to identify? Are we going to wait for the science to catch up before trying something? Just because we don't have the science we shouldn't explore or try them? This is my issue with mainstream western medicine who is overly skeptical and biased against traditional natural medicine. Their approach is far too conservative when it comes to dealing with diseases like ours.
Thanks for sharing that article.
-
Are we going to wait for the science to catch up before trying something? Just because we don't have the science we shouldn't explore or try them? This is my issue with mainstream western medicine who is overly skeptical and biased against traditional natural medicine. Their approach is far too conservative when it comes to dealing with diseases like ours.
I could not agree more with you. Actually it is not only an issue of the institutions being conservative, it is worse.
The most common argument against alternative remedies is: "there is not enough research that supports that hypothesis". It seems a scientific, neutral argument. but it is not. Who controls what is researched and what is not? It is the industry, and it is profit that directs the industry, nothing else. If there is no money to be made on a disease, it will be low priority, look at malaria for example. If a medicine is effective, but the patent is expired, new medicines will be developed to replace it, even if not necessary. Pharma does not want to cure diseases, otherwise they would lose their customers. Pharma develops medicines that keep the symptoms in check, so that we will need to buy them our whole life. They are not evil, it is system that is built like that. Profit is the goal, if they don't pursue it, they will lose on the market. But pharma profit and peoples health are conflicting interests.
-
John D. Rockefeller took over medicine and education with his oil. Nature could not be patented. The tentacles of that family line are everywhere. You can read it in this book, not focused on medicine but on the big picture, written by an academic who was in the green movement:
https://www.amazon.com/Rockefeller-Controlling-Game-Jacob-Nordang%C3%A5rd/dp/1510780211/
https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781510780217/rockefeller/
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71N3PxC7r1L._SY522_.jpg)
Freddies profit argument is correct. In addition to that: Banking is at the root of many problems, central bankers have monopolized money itself. 90% of lower incomes pays interest to the upper 10%. 50% of all paid interest ends up at the less than 0.01% of the upper incomes. You can set up interest rate free banks which costs are covered by tax if you want to improve this issue, they probably won’t allow it. Profit can only be maintained in a society of abundance by artificial scarcity (we are talking about mass production here). Prices can also be manipulated by inflation (printing money), you can even use this method to impoverish populations. Bread and circuses (and careers) are more important to people than finding out how they are being manipulated and doing something about it.
This website will give you a history/overview of NGO networks some of which are major players as well: https://isgp-studies.com/
Sorry for the rambling but I am really fed up.
-
Are we going to wait for the science to catch up before trying something? Just because we don't have the science we shouldn't explore or try them? This is my issue with mainstream western medicine who is overly skeptical and biased against traditional natural medicine. Their approach is far too conservative when it comes to dealing with diseases like ours.
I could not agree more with you. Actually it is not only an issue of the institutions being conservative, it is worse.
The most common argument against alternative remedies is: "there is not enough research that supports that hypothesis". It seems a scientific, neutral argument. but it is not. Who controls what is researched and what is not? It is the industry, and it is profit that directs the industry, nothing else. If there is no money to be made on a disease, it will be low priority, look at malaria for example. If a medicine is effective, but the patent is expired, new medicines will be developed to replace it, even if not necessary. Pharma does not want to cure diseases, otherwise they would lose their customers. Pharma develops medicines that keep the symptoms in check, so that we will need to buy them our whole life. They are not evil, it is system that is built like that. Profit is the goal, if they don't pursue it, they will lose on the market. But pharma profit and peoples health are conflicting interests.
Exactly.
The way forward is to take things into your own hands. You cannot rely on modern medicine to help you with complex chronic disease types like POIS. Functional/integrative/natural/traditional medicine has been far more powerful in my experience. These days I wouldn't even recommend you visit a functional specialist unless of course you had the money to burn on testing, supplements, AND consultation fees.
The way you make progress with POIS is like anything else in life. You just test and try a trillion different things and you find what sticks. Start off with the anecdotally recommended here in the community and generally stick to things that are safe. Do your research on each thing you try so you understand the safe and therapeutic dosage, relative risks, co-factor nutrients, and whether brand quality is important. These things can be huge and vary a lot between each thing you try...
I can't speak for everyone, and of course every condition is going to have varying levels of complexity and difficultiness in solving, but this has been the most effective path for me in making actual tangible progress. I'm also very grateful and fortunate for the financial background I have come from which has allowed me to be quite liberal in spending on supplements.
Even if you visit a functional specialist, they are not going to magically know which herbs, adaptogens, antivirals, etc will work best for you. These diseases are incredibly complex. They won't know which immune nutrients will work best for you etc. The only way to find out is by testing and listening to your body. Of course they can be very helpful for giving you a good starting point, rigorous testing and investigation etc. But I've just had more success on my own by testing hundreds of different supplements and listening to my body. If you have the money, I'd be doing both... testing on my own & consulting someone who really knows what they're talking about.
And yes it all comes with a risk. That risk will vary depending on the types of things you try and amount of testing you do. I don't mess with antibiotics and generally don't like taking antimicrobials chronically unless they are offering immediate relief. I make sure to take lots of probiotics if I'm killing anything with antimicrobials. I definitely would not experiment with anything that isn't somewhat mainstream.
I was probably a bit wreckless with the amount of B vitamins/methyl nutrients and D3 I supplemented in hindsight. I now just pulse everything and only take as needed. I don't think any supplement should be taken chronically. I always make sure to take co-factor nutrients with things that suck up nutrients that could cause potential long-term deficiencies or imbalances.
-
Updated and cleaned up main post https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg42080#msg42080
Added lots of powerful herbs I've been testing lately. Cordyceps, black seed oil, propolis, and monolaurin. As well as my glutathione regime.
I am currently on my AB diet w/ sweet potato. I seem to tolerate sweet potato very well compared to grains when I’m not eating a bunch of inflammatory grains. Gluten seems to def make my gut more leaky. Not sure if rice makes my gut more leaky but I’m definitely sensitive to it still - doesn’t really feel much different to gluten.
-
Everytime I go to take B vitamins, methyl stuff, etc I seem to get side-effects. Same as with fenugreek I notice, although I only tested once or twice. I think Quantum mentioned in the past that the medicinal effects from fenugreek may be from it's choline content. This anecdotal report makes me more convinced.
I basically interpret this as my body no longer needing extra methyl groups now. It seems to be completely replenished and my body seems to remain on top of everything as well long-term it seems. I haven't taken any methyl stuff for many many months now. I also continue to eat plenty of eggs without issues, though I still try to not eat them daily just go give my body breaks. It's worth noting tho I definitely do not "need" eggs like I used to. In the past I would notice a very distinct before and after eating eggs. Now the before and after is not so obvious, so clearly some kind of mechanism or nutrient status has changed. The methyl content in them also isn't enough to overload my system unlike direct supplementation. They're still one of my grand staples.
NAC is also working really well to clear up brainfog. It keeps everything very clear for me. I used to rely on B complex vitamins for this purpose. I would prefer to still take a B complex at least twice a week or so as I do notice my energy levels are better, but I can't seem to find one that doesn't give me side-effects of some sorts (I've tried many including LifeExtension & Thorne active B complex, as well as unactive ones with folic acid).
So to summarise, pre methyl loading (when my POIS symptoms were really bad & methyl extremely depleted).... methyl supplements, B vitamins, eggs & fenugreek were really powerful. Now they seem to make me socially apathetic (except for eggs) and kind of blunt my mood. Nothing too crazy, but definitely bad if socialising etc.
Also an interesting anecdote, when I was on NAC for 2+ weeks at 2g daily dosages, my appetite at some point dramatically increased. One of my POIS symptoms is appetite suppresion. I think this has to do with the immune system suppression or under a lot of stress. NAC elevates glutathione. POIS almost certainly depletes glutathione. NAC is a cheap option, but definitely not without side-effects or risk. Does seem to hurt my gut mucosial lining at consistent dosages 1g+ per day (I begin to experience sharpish gut pains in random different spots, but this goes away when ceasing or dropping dosage)... so def need to cycle and take it easy, and always supplement co-factor minerals as NAC will dpelete them.
-
Made some further refinements to my method. Most important herbs/shrooms are cordyceps from Oriveda and Monolaurin.
Black seed oil, propolis, raw garlic, and fenugreek have all helped in the past but it's too excessive to take them all (not to mention unecessary). But I've kept them in my list in case people want to experiment with them.
No longer take B complex or SAMe for two reasons. B complex vitamins make me socially apathetic, even days later. I find when I just let my mind and neurotransmitters naturally be without supplementation of B vitamins, I consistently feel better. SAMe has some safety concerns that I’m not sure I feel too good taking it long term, tho without a doubt it does benefit methylation in ways I couldn’t achieve through anything else. I’m also fairly certain methylation is still depleted to some degree long-term. So maybe I will continue to checkin with SAMe over the long run. I don’t really know at this stage. TMG and creatine are safer alternatives but I don’t know whether or not they will achieve what SAMe, that B complex vitamins, eggs, and meat certainly couldn’t.
I take NAC 0.5-0.8g most days and listen to my body. Also taking a mineral complex that covers zinc, magnesium, molyebdenum, and copper. Lately been taking extra magnesium and electrolytes throughout the day to experiment with low-carb. NAC has been a great addition to my stack though. Feel like it supports glutathione production and clearing of brainfog very well.
Carb restrictions on AB are still an issue for me, so I begun experimenting with electrolytes and this is certainly helping, but still not 100%. So currently exploring low-carb/keto/carnivore to see how my body feels in ketogenic states.
-
Been keto now for 2-3 days. Absolute game-changer. Much more consistent energy levels. Supplementing lots of electrolytes. Less inflammatory than AB.
I think for the last 2 years while I was on AB, and whenever I abided by strictly fruit, honey, and dairy for carbs, my body was trying to tap in and out of keto. I have a very fast motabolism so only eating those source for carbs meant it had to attempt to burn fat quite regularlly.
I added in electrolyte salts (sodium, potassium, and magnesium) on AB and noticed I was tolerating the low carb days better. So 2-3 days ago I decided to go full keto and the results so far have been mindblowing. My energy, libido, and hormones are so much more stable. I'm also able to tolerate greens, nuts, dark chocolate etc anything so far as long as I stay in ketosis (low carb). I haven't tested an extensive range of foods just yet, but everything I've taken so far seems fine. Early days here as well for keto, but things are looking really good!
-
Can confirm some of the herbs I’ve been taking, especially some OGs are definitely giving me mild side effects basically identical to methyl donors. I think what’s going on here is that the system that these herbs and methyl donors initially helped to replenish (and thus made me feel better) is now balanced enough where taking these same things that initially helped have actually become a hindrance in causing side effects. I still need to identify which ones, but it’s definitely out of raw garlic, fenugreek, and cordyceps. Black seed oil may cause similar side-effects, but I’ve stopped taking that as it seemed to “whiten” my vision while I was on it, which I didn’t like. I’ve never noticed any side effects from monolaurin, I think because it doesn’t effect the methylation or neurotransmitter system like these other ones do.
I’ve also been keto for quite a number of weeks now and that has been a huge improvement from AB in terms of libido, hormones, and energy. I think the level of sensitivity is quite similar tho. I’m definitely sensitive to some “keto” foods, like many nuts it seems. I’ve mostly been eating fatty meat and vegetables.
Edit: It was the fenugreek. Not sure about raw garlic but no longer seems necessary anyway with cordyceps and monolaurin.
-
WARRIOR, PLEASE OBSERVE
OUR FORUM RULES ON PROFANITY
Thanks,
Demo
Tested today day after release taking nothing last night and just eating red meat and eggs today (and some other keto foods.) Also at a social event.
Fenugreek 2g
* Maybe feel better in other ways but definitely feel more on edge and less social after taking. I feel more sensitive to the moment but it feels less natural compared to before taking.
* Also didn’t last long comparative to how I felt beforehand. I don’t really feel like it made any permanent changes to my state.
* Felt like it changed my state such that it interfered with my natural ability to socialise.
* Side effects were relatively mild and short lived but still significant enough to cause inconvenience and retire this supplement.
* Maybe it does still carry some degree of medicinal benefit, but it was definitely short lived and overall not work the side-effects. Perhaps when my POIS symptoms were more intense, it was more useful.
* Updated status: Retired supplement. Used to be helpful, but no longer like how it makes me feel.
* Still useful for removing POIS-like head/facial aches, but unfortunately
not without minor side effects.
Cordyceps 2g
* Huge f****** improvement. Holy s***.
* Powerful.
* Feel like it just corrects whatever problem is going on with POIS re inflammation. Clarifies my mind as well.
* Doesn’t seem to give any side-effects, but probably something to check with more time. But definitely way too powerful to omit.
* Totally relieved CNS stress activation side effects
* No side effects as far as I can notice.
* If it does cause side effects which is probably unlikely, it’s worth figuring out how to take regardless as its medicinal qualities for POIS were very clear. It’s almost like this herb just normalises and clears remaining POIS symptoms.
So once again affirming the effectiveness of Cordyceps (from Oriveda) for my POIS. I’m also retiring fenugreek due to its mild side effects and its ineffectiveness compared to the Cordy and other parts of my stack. The fenugreek does still seem to have a nootropic concentration-like effect, similar to methyl/B vitamin supplements, but I prefer not to mess with it no longer as it felt like it interrupted my natural social flow.
-
It behaves as a mast cell inhibitor:
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/how-does-cordyceps-interacts-w-VBEeYReZRgm0UK7thnu2vA
====================================================
Your neutrophil level can dip post O. Mast cells are able to eat neutrophils. They attract them by release of Leukotriene B4.
-
Thanks for the insight Muon! I appreciate your research!
-
Quick update on KETO (3-4 weeks now). Going really well. Huge improvement from AB in terms of hormones, libido, and energy. I was having a lot of energy, "satiation", and poor libido on AB because my body doesn't do well on high GI carbs alone. I still have food sensitivities tho, but am eating a lot more vegetable variety.
I also believe monolaurin plays a crucial role in my stack for improving food sensitivities as well as POIS. Something I will affirm later this week.
I've really been trying to distil my stack and remove anything unecessary.
-
High-dose thiamine therapy is definitely on my todo at some point. This user has had success https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/1fgmwjv/ttfd_pt2/, which is the same dude where I got the idea to try Cordyceps (Oriveda) from. Cordyceps has been very effective for improving my POIS recovery. Clearly our POIS clusters must be similar, and it would be beneficial for me to experiment with high dose thiamine at some point. On the todo.
I know it's also been mentioned quite a bit around here on POIS Center (thiamine therapy). Has always peaked my interest, so will get around to it at some point.
-
Monolaurin
* Recently took a break from all herbs because I was experiencing side effects (unbeknownst at the time mostly from the fenugreek, maybe slight from garlic but doesn't really do much for me now these days anyway) and wanted to clarify/refine my herb stack as it was getting too large.
* As a result of going off all herbs, I began experiencing minorish but still annoying side-effects from some vegetables foods I was eating on keto. The best way to describe it is this somewhat benign but very annoying feeling that my head/face isn't relaxed, that it's "disjointed". This would occur 1-3 hrs following eating, only occur when eating plant foods, and would only last 2-3 hrs or so before my body naturally cleared them. No apathy or anhedonic side-effects.
* As soon as I took Monolaurin 2g (reintroducing), these side-effects disappeared almost immediately. Fenugreek also improves these symptoms, but I no longer like how it makes me feel so I decided to disregard it from my stack
* This was so effective that a day after taking the monolaurin and realising my improved state, I decided to wait to dose the next monolaurin until I get more side-effects so I can make a clearer correlation between the monolaurin and improvement of symptoms
* That day never happened so 5 days later I just decided to reintroduce it anyway. Haven't had any significant food sensitivity symptoms since taking the initial 2g. Worth noting I am eating a strict ketogenic carnivorous base diet, while eats a decent amount of vegetables, dark chocolate, and nuts (almonds, pistacios, etc). I still do not tolerate starches in large quantities, the inflammation totally overwhelmes my system (even in the past when I was taking monoalurin)
* Monolaurin has been a powerful herb for my POIS for a while, but because I was taking a large amount of different things, could never fully clarify with confidence that the monolaurin was responsible
* I used monolaurin in the past when I was on a carb-based diet. I remember when I introduced it, it significantly improved my sensitivities even in regards to starches. But that didn't keep up long-term. The starches overwhelmed my body with inflammation, even with monolaurin
* I think monolaurin in regards to improving food sensitivities only works long-term for minorish to low moderate food sensitivities, not huge consistent quantities of things I'm sensitive to. Raw garlic and fenugreek worked in the same way, where it was only effective so long was I still cut out the majority of things I am sensitive to (i.e., gluten-free, grain-free, starch-free, etc).
* Monolaurin is a winner
* Monolaurin also appears to improve POIS, but it's difficult to tell by how much. It’s medicinal benefit has been a lot clearer in regards to food sensitivities
Even when I went off all herbs inc. Cordyceps and Monolaurin, the intensity of my POIS was not overwhelming, but definitely did become noticably worst. Methyl donor replenishment (past supplementation of B complex vitamins & SAMe, meat, eggs (choline), etc), adequate D3, adequate glutathione (NAC), and adhering to my strict ketogenic carnivorous-based diet has helped to build a strong base, where the herbs just become additional extra support. Herbs alone would not be enough if the other factors mentioned were not dialled in.
-
Propolis
* So I'm fairly sure Propolis helps my POIS, but I think this is a case of it being one in many antimicrobials that will help
* MicrobiomeLabs Mega Mycobalance (https://microbiomelabs.com/home/products/mega-mycobalance/) are uses Propolis for yeast & fungal which I thought was interesting. I've also had a strong history of fungal problems and I hit virtually all the self diagnoses criteria for Candida. Candida as a role in my POIS is at this point a very possible factor
* My POIS seems to respond well to antimicrobial herbs (in the past this included raw garlic, but these days more so monolaurin & propolis)
* I'm sure there are all sorts of powerful antimicrobial herbs for Candida & whatever other possible infections may be causing my POIS
* Ofc much of this is anecdotal and going off simply by how I feel. I also have no idea the long-term effect of these herbs, etc. But I will continue having Propolis as part of my stack unless I come to experience side-effects. I think it works nicely along with Cordyceps, Monolaurin, NAC, and my other immune stuff
* Have also noted in the past anecdotal beneficial results from Propolis, especially in combination with monolaurin, etc.
* Worth mentioning as well, it's hard to determine/clarify herbs because their effectiveness is going to change with duration, combination, etc. It's all so complex.
As for candida/fungal ~
* Need to do a candida deep dive investigation
* I fit all the self diagnoses criteria for Candida inc. long history of fungal infections, strong sugar cravings, bad past diet w/ high processed sugar, etc. I recently just picked up Tinea (most likely from a family member), have had a skin fungal infection on my chest for a long time, have a minor Candida growth on tongue my doc just prescribed for, had a toenail fungal super stubborn infection for 10 years when I was younger, etc. Currently treating the tinea and chest fungal infection with non-oral antifungals, and the tounge with oral anticandida.
* Opportunity here to also try a bunch of antifungals/anticandidas (https://balanceone.com/blogs/news/top-7-antifungal-supplements-to-fight-candida?srsltid=AfmBOorbKMkGwxkX-oouOH9z02yEN8PL3m4cs-nDlIAaduOzB8kXgwCB) and see if they also help POIS. This could help to prove some sort of link. A TCM naturopath I saw also hypothesised a prostate candida infection.
-
You might be interested in S boulardii.
I think it helps my general wellbeing.
-
You might be interested in S boulardii.
I think it helps my general wellbeing.
Interesting, also listed here first for anti candida: https://www.optibacprobiotics.com/professionals/latest-research/gut-health/probiotics-best-for-candida
Thanks for sharing. Have to def explore
-
Dr update ------
Currently seeing a low-carb specialist Dr here in Sydney atm. Got a bunch of tests done.
Only things out of whack were highish homocysteine (15 umol/L, supposed to be between 4-14 umol/L) & iron panel (low iron transferrin - 26 umol/L, supposed to be between 27-46 umol/L) - 2 tests w/ months between have shown low iron transferin.
I did his prescribed testing the day after releasing.
His current recommendations:
- titrate NAC to 2g/daily
- eat more liver - he thinks I'm deficient in methylation co-factors & lowish in copper, so liver is perfect for this. My B12 was high (he cited high meat consumption, so this is normal especially for ketogenic) while folate and B6 were in good range.
- start oregano oil
- betaine acid (NOT TMG), he cited that the stomach needs more acid to flush out potential candida overgrowth etc. Stated ACV is good, but he insinuated we need something even stronger.
- be aware of mould & oxalates - may potentially be effecting a condition like mine
Much of his recommendations are already very close to what I've already been doing for myself, so it was nice to get his professional take and overcite. Will meet with him again in 2 months time.
He also stated that because POIS is so rare, we're kinda left in the dark to investigate and experiment ourselves.
These days I've found I'm also really sensitive to methyl donors. So this all clearly affirms I'm more than likely deficient in certain methylation cofactors beyond the main methyl donors. This checks out given my history as well. Taking all those B vitamins and SAMe probably depleted the hell out of my cofactors. I haven't eaten liver in probably a year.
-
So I'd tried Acicclovir+ Carbamide forte MCT oil 5 teaspoon before two hour of orgasm and after 6-24 hour didn't catched any of headache stomach symptoms , also reduced mine red eyes and tonsils didn't inflammed as usually occur with every pmo, I think Nanna1 herpes ideas matter,
Also there's immune compromisen with the flush of hormones idk which hormone do the job but whenever if I do edge or orgasm after 2 hour or so during cold or winter rainy season I catch up flu easiliy, there's some sort of connection idk,
other hand if I awake whole night and didn't catch up morning erection or any other sexual / hormonal stimulus than i didn't get pois at all,
Hormones do the job to immune or any other viral epigenetic to cause Pois i guess
-
Recently noticed minor food sensitivity symptoms appearing again. Took some propolis and almost immediately felt an improvement, though not as powerful as Monolaurin it seems. Clear evidence some sort of pathogenic problem. These antimicrobials are killing something causing problems, but obviously are not yet powerful enough (at least at these gentler dosages) to completely clear the issue permanently.
The pathogen's ability to develop resistance to antimicrobials would also explain the somewhat up and down effectiveness of these herbs. When I first begun Monolaurin after a long time, all I took was 1g and was sorted for a good week it seems. I've continued that 1g/d dosage + added propolis, and already noticing food sensitivity symptoms occuring more often.
I've seen online the recommendation to rotate antimicrobial herbs to avoid or get around this issue. And to also have a good variety/stack of antimicrobial herbs to cover many bases. But ultimately the goal should be on killing & clearing once and for all. So that's what my Dr and I are currently set on.
Just ordered some burberin and oregano oil. Will combine this with monolaurin and propolis. I also have some AHCC mushrooms left I may as well throw that in the mix. Maybe some andrographis as well. Along with NAC 2g & Betaine HCL. Will also titrate up certain dosages.
Will also be taking some good quality saurkraut probiotic, and maybe even check out the one S Boulardii as recommended by Berlin.
Don't know for 100% sure Candida is the cause, but it's definitely a possibility. This site has lots of great & interesting info https://www.thecandidadiet.com/guide-to-antifungals/ and https://www.optibacprobiotics.com/professionals/latest-research/gut-health/probiotics-best-for-candida
I also think another likely possibility is that the infection causing POIS is located possibly outside of the gut. My food sensitivity issues go away with long periods of abstience. So POIS is triggering some kind of inflammatory gut problem, but if POIS is never triggered to begin with, the food sensitivities completely dissappear it seems. This wouldn't rule out a possible problematic gut infection still but I think it does give greater possibility that the location of the infection is in a different part of the body. Maybe the prostate, or as Nanna1 hypothesised in the brain.
If the location of the infection is not in the gut, this may also explain why clearing this particular infection is so stubborn and difficult. More *systemic* antimicrobials/antifungals might be required. Also more reason to hvae a wide variety of antimicrobials to cover all bases.
-
Just started taking Fluconazole for tinea. Noticed after taking 150mg I felt noticably clearer/sharper/better. Lots of interesting anecdotes on Fluconazole for POIS. Hooks into Candida/fungal theory.
I think a chronic fungal infection is most likely the cause of my POIS. Fungal infections can also go dormant i.e, abstaining from ejaculation, and reactivate later i.e., ejaculation. The infection must be in a location that is stimulated or somehow reactivated by the event of ejaculation and arousal (but mostly from ejaculation).
I also think the chronic inflammation from POIS causes intestinal permeability:
I haven't tested this for a long-time, but in the past if I had abstained for 4-5+ weeks, my food sensitivities would completely clear up. Each time I triggered POIS, they would immediately come back until I abstained for a long period of time again. So it was from this logic that I derived POIS causes intestinal permeability & food sensitivities issues.
-
I have always felt so good after eating Greek yoghurt and whenever I omitted it for a while I wouldn't feel as good. It's a staple of mine alongside eggs and meat. Not sure exactly what within it is responsible for making me feel so good, but I've noticed this many times. It also seems to give electrolyte-like benefits that cheese does not (which would theoretically rule out calcium). I seem to tolerate low-carb states better when having Greek yoghurt, alongside potassium, magnesium, and sodium. Or maybe it's the manganese in the maple syrup I've been eating, but I remember feeling good from Greek yoghurt long before I would pair it with maple syrup.
Goes without saying but nutrient variety is so important. I started feeling worst on keto and the only explanation I could arrive at was that I wasn't eating enough nutrient variety. Even while eating eggs and red meat on keto, I still felt shitty as if I was missing something. Each time I reset back to AB and start feeling better again. AB is so naturally nutrient rich and convenient (animal meats, fresh fruit, etc). Bit more effort is needed on keto with preparation of vegetables, salads, stirfries etc.
My copper & zinc are both a bit low atm, & I have leftover supplements for both so will take both at different times to top up lvls. Also trying to eat more liver but I have a sense my body would benefit from going on a temporary lowmeat diet for a bit. My B vitamin lvls are still really high even after stopping supplementaiton for many months now.
-
Claude AI on chronic fungal infection causing POIS:
This is an intriguing hypothesis for Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. From a mechanistic perspective, several factors could connect fungal reactivation to ejaculation:
Immune System Changes:
-Ejaculation temporarily modulates immune function
-Brief post-ejaculatory immunosuppression could allow fungal reactivation
-Changes in cytokine profiles could affect fungal containment
Hormonal Factors:
-Prolactin surge post-ejaculation
-Changes in testosterone levels
-These hormonal shifts could affect immune response to latent fungi
Anatomical Considerations:
-Prostate and seminal vesicles could harbor latent fungi
-Physical contraction during ejaculation might disturb biofilms
-Mechanical dispersion of fungal elements possible
Biochemical Changes:
-pH changes in genital tract during arousal/ejaculation
-Changes in local glucose availability
-Alterations in prostaglandin levels
This could explain several POIS features:
-Delayed onset of symptoms
-Immune-like response
-Cyclic nature of symptoms
-Response to antifungals in some cases
What if there is no delayed onset of symptoms? and why would arousal stimulate some symptoms even without ejaculating, but the actual event of ejaculation triggers a tsunami of symptoms?
Interesting refinement of the hypothesis. The immediate onset and arousal-triggered symptoms suggest a neuroimmune mechanism:
Arousal-Related Effects:
-Autonomic nervous system activation
-Release of neurotransmitters/neuropeptides
-These could trigger fungal response/toxin release
-Could explain why even arousal causes some symptoms
Ejaculation "Tsunami" Mechanism:
-Physical contraction/pressure changes could cause massive fungal toxin release
-Sudden autonomic changes more extreme than with arousal alone
-Vascular changes (including blood-brain barrier permeability)
-Prostaglandin surge more significant than with arousal
Immediate vs Delayed Onset:
-Direct toxin effects would be immediate
-No need to wait for immune cascade
Fungal metabolites could directly affect:
-Nerve function
-Vascular tone
-Brain chemistry
-Mast cell degranulation
This actually makes more mechanistic sense than a delayed immune response.
It also causes intestinal permeability, but this goes away when infection goes latent i..e, when patient abstains. their methyl donors are also significantly depleted. they respond well to D3, monolaurin, cordyceps, and garlic.
This adds significant support to the fungal hypothesis. Let's connect these dots:
Methyl Donor Depletion:
-Fungi are known to disrupt methylation
-Could explain why methyl donors are depleted
-SAMe/methylation needed to detoxify fungal metabolites
-Creates vicious cycle: more methylation needed ? fewer methyl donors available
Response Pattern:
-D3: antifungal properties + immune modulation
-Monolaurin: disrupts fungal cell membranes
-Cordyceps: antifungal + adaptogenic
-Garlic: potent antifungal + sulfur donor
? All effective against fungi/biofilms
Intestinal Permeability Pattern:
-Temporary leak suggests active fungal factors
-Resolves with abstinence = fungi return to latency
-Candida and other fungi known to cause temporary gut permeability
-Explains why permeability isn't permanent
Mechanism Model:
Arousal/ejaculation ? autonomic activation ? fungal activation ? toxin release ? immediate symptoms
?
Gut barrier disruption
?
Systemic effects
?
Methylation depletion
?
Compromised detox capacity
Patient takes NAC which does help. how could we go about clearing this latent infection?
Let's strategize a comprehensive approach to target the latent infection, considering NAC's established benefit:
Biofilm Disruption Phase:
-NAC (already helping)
-Serrapeptase
-EDTA
-Lactoferrin
-Consider pulsed dosing to prevent adaptation
Direct Antifungal Protocol:
-Nystatin (minimal absorption, targets gut)
-Consider systemic antifungal (fluconazole/itraconazole)
Natural compounds:
-Caprylic acid
-Oregano oil
-Berberine
-Enhanced monolaurin dosing
Support Systems:
-Methylation support (B12, folate, TMG)
-Continue D3
-Zinc + Copper balance
-Glutathione support
-Consider binders for toxin removal
Treatment Strategy:
-Start biofilm disruption first
-Add antifungals gradually
-Monitor herx reactions
-Pulse treatment to prevent resistance
-Continue through several cycles
Key Considerations:
-Time treatment around abstinence periods
-Monitor liver function if using systemics
-Support detox pathways
-Consider prostate/seminal vesicle penetration of agents
-
Starch constitutes the vast majority of foods I am sensitive to. I don't know a single starchy food that doesn't give me some kind of reaction. Animal-based works because it is starch free. Lately been eating a larger variety of vegetables and seem to be doing fine, as long as I occaisionally take monolaurin. I am trying to broaden my nutrient variety as much as possible. But if I could boil down my most optimal diet for POIS, it would be "starch-free". I have even noticed sensitivty to nuts in high quantities - they contain a decent % of starch when consmed in high amounts.
-
Been a while since I took my B 150 Forte complex so took it tonight and felt better. So I think the answer long-term is to just take it at the right frequency. Somewhere between once every 1-4 weeks probably, and ideally take at a different time to meat and eggs to avoid any overmethylation problems. I also had highish homocysteine, so more than likely deficient or low in one of the B complex vitamins. My b12, folate, and b6 were adequate in bloods, but something in the B complex is definitely helping in the methylation cycle. The trick with much of this stuff is finding the right dose and frequency. I've definitely overdone B complex in the past, and eventually had side-effects in not tolerating methyl donors.
-
Having issues with electrolyte supplementation on keto. Not sure whats going on, but appears to be worstening my mood and motivation. Maybe I'm taking too much, but I seem to need quite a lot to fix many of the physical symptoms associated with electrolyte loss. Didn't have any issues for the first least 4-5 weeks or so, but have struggled lately with strange negative side-effects on motivation, mood etc, immediately after taking electrolyte salts. I suspect that the electrolyte salts I'm taking, despite improving electrolyte loss, are probably imbalancing other important minerals and nutrients (and maybe even their uptake or utilisation ability) that are effecting my mood.
Back on Animal-Based and feeling a lot better but ofc I will still run into electrolyte issues. So at a bit of a dead end atm. Animal-Based is still king for my POIS & general overall health, mood, etc.
Someone on the subreddit today mentioned what foods are best for POIS. Here's whats been the case in my experience:
-Red meat (rotating between regular steak and ground beef for diverse amino acid coverage - both are important)
-Eggs
-Greek yoghurt (interestingly, I've noticed huge loss when going without Greek yoghurt for a long time. I don't know what's in here thats making me feel so good, but it has been a powerful staple for me)
-Large variety of fruits, but notably orange juice (I feel like the combination of OJ & variety of fruits, along w/ animal foods creates a synergy that I am not able to get by replacing them with vegetables.)
My ambition and mental game on animal-based is unmatched. Just need to try and figure out the electrolyte issues. I also noticed that seperating fruit/carb meals from fatty meals go a long way. My body doesn't seem to process both of them simultaneously when in a lowish carb state.
-
Experimenting with thiamine (TTFD)
- May be useful for POIS & chronic disease in general
- "Functional deficiencies" can cause a lot of issues
- Thiamine helps regulate electrolytes - a thiamine deficiency could explain why after many weeks of feeling good/normal on keto w/ electrolytes I began running into problems. I also no longer take my B complex that frequently.
- I have electrolyte issues even on animal-based. Read that thiamine may be able to help me with electrolytes.
- I also think my overall POIS and general wellbeing have gotten worst since stopping my vitamin B complex. Yet my bloods for B12, folate, and B6 were all adequate. Maybe the highish dose of thiamine may be responsible for giving me benefits I didn't realise, beyond methylation
Edit:
- Definitely feeling better after taking thiamine (TTFD)
- Probably the one B vitamin in complex that does best in higher dosages for POIS. Best might be taking B complex once per week, thiamine every 2nd day or so.
- Many of the B vitamins when megadosed offer therapeutic effects. I dont think its wise to megadose thiamine long-term daily as it will likely lead to imbalances at some point, but emphasising it amongst a B complex intake I think is definitely beneficial
-
Question for Claude AI: which B vitamin, when megadosed, would likely offer medicinal effects for complex chronic disease?
B1 (thiamine) at high doses, particularly in its fat-soluble forms (TTFD/benfotiamine), stands out for complex chronic conditions. It's foundational for mitochondrial function, glucose metabolism, and autonomic nervous system regulation. Some functional practitioners have reported success using high-dose thiamine protocols for conditions like POTS, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and long COVID.
The rationale relates to thiamine's critical role in:
Energy metabolism via the Krebs cycle
Reducing lactate buildup
Supporting proper autonomic nervous system function
Glucose utilization
Neurotransmitter synthesis
Some practitioners report that patients may require doses far above RDA (sometimes 100mg to several hundred mg daily) to see therapeutic effects in complex conditions, particularly when there's dysautonomia or energy metabolism issues involved.
I could never really figure out why I felt so good from my old B complex despite seemingly having adequate B12, folate, B6 (main methyl donors), but eventually it began giving me side-effects. Took thiamine today and definitely felt like it has had a positive effect on my mood. My protocol moving forward will probably entail dosing B complex once per week or so as needed, but taking thiamine in moderate amounts daily.
It's also interesting how most of the B vitamins have medicinal effects at high dosages.
I also distinctively remember niacin offering huge energetic benefits. My feet would become super warm. That may also be beneficial to take in moderate amounts daily.
I think trying to keep folate, B12, and B6 in "normal" levels is probably wise. I think too many methyl donors is not going to be good long-term.
-
Zinc (LifeExtension's OptiZinc) improves mood a lot. Copper and managnese supplementation do not deliver same benefit (at least in my immediate observations of beginning to take them), even though copper is also low in bloods and manganese consumption is low on AB. Classic nutrient been in my protocol for a while, but I dont take it daily to not cause imbalances. I would have also thought all the red meat I eat would give me enough zinc, but clearly not - which probably more likely suggests POIS inflammation depletes zinc faster than normal.
Copper and zinc are both low in bloods so I began taking it. Wonder if POIS depletes zinc faster than normal. Zinc & mag have also anecdotally improved POIS in the past. Will take zinc daily for a while to build up lvls, as well as copper 2mg to inc both minerals and keep ratio in check. Zinc and copper ratio appears to be important for POIS and immune health in general.
Latest mineral test results:
Copper 13 umol/L (11-22)
Zinc 13.9 umol/L (10.0-18.0)
Selenium 1.65 umol/L (0.80-1.90)
Comprehensive nutritional testing is KING. Chris Masterjohn has an extensive pdf on this. If you have the money, I'd get comprehensive nutritional testing done ASAP. Nutrients play such a huge role when it comes to improving POIS symptoms & overall health/wellbeing. Can see status of many major immune nutrients & replenish before they get too low causing further symptoms i.e., glutathione, D3, minerals zinc, copper, selenium, nutrients vitamin A, E, etc. Co-factor minerals, nutrients, amino acids i.e., taurine, cysteine, rate-limiting nutrients etc.
The problem is money.
-
Been taking TTFD thiamine 100mg daily for a week now. I feel like it's definitely been a net positive overall. I don't know how important the actual type is for me, but it has definitely improved mood and I believe it's improved POIS further back to when I was regularly taking my old 150 B Forte Complex. I think theres a good chance much of the medicinal benefit from this B complex was from thiamine, in addition to replenishing methyl donors.
-
Zinc…improves mood a lot…
Interesting, Warrior.
-
Been taking TTFD thiamine 100mg daily for a week now. I feel like it's definitely been a net positive overall. I don't know how important the actual type is for me, but it has definitely improved mood and I believe it's improved POIS further back to when I was regularly taking my old 150 B Forte Complex. I think theres a good chance much of the medicinal benefit from this B complex was from thiamine, in addition to replenishing methyl donors.
How would TTFD compare to Benfotiamine? I know TTFD is absorbed better but does that make benfotiamine insignificant or would it help in pois? and would you say TTFD is able to make you feel 100% or how much percentage did it help you ?
-
Zinc…improves mood a lot…
Interesting, Warrior.
Demo ! my testosterone friend ! I love you man ! I would like to know more about surgery and find a way to mitigate sperm AND seminal fluid travelling in the vas deferens and other regions , I know some did surgery and were unsuccessful but I believe there must be a way to fix this through surgery...
removing testicles may not fix it as the prostate plays a role in this , however if we can find a way to stop the prosate from producing seminal fluids , or maybe a medication that causes castration or stops prostate from producing seminal fluids maybe we can fix it !
who do you believe in this forum is most educated on this subject?
-
Zinc…improves mood a lot…
Interesting, Warrior.
Demo ! my testosterone friend ! I love you man ! I would like to know more about surgery and find a way to mitigate sperm AND seminal fluid travelling in the vas deferens and other regions , I know some did surgery and were unsuccessful but I believe there must be a way to fix this through surgery...
removing testicles may not fix it as the prostate plays a role in this , however if we can find a way to stop the prosate from producing seminal fluids , or maybe a medication that causes castration or stops prostate from producing seminal fluids maybe we can fix it !
who do you believe in this forum is most educated on this subject?
Forum member “Animus” is the most knowledgeable. I sent him your post.
-
Zinc…improves mood a lot…
Interesting, Warrior.
Zinc and magnesium have been classic POIS supporting supplements for a long time. Good to keep zinc and copper ratio in check though. My copper is a bit low atm. It's interesting that despite copper being on the lower end, I still feel better after taking zinc relative to when I take copper.
Been taking TTFD thiamine 100mg daily for a week now. I feel like it's definitely been a net positive overall. I don't know how important the actual type is for me, but it has definitely improved mood and I believe it's improved POIS further back to when I was regularly taking my old 150 B Forte Complex. I think theres a good chance much of the medicinal benefit from this B complex was from thiamine, in addition to replenishing methyl donors.
How would TTFD compare to Benfotiamine? I know TTFD is absorbed better but does that make benfotiamine insignificant or would it help in pois? and would you say TTFD is able to make you feel 100% or how much percentage did it help you ?
I haven't tried benfotiamine, but have not noticed much difference between TTFD and the regular thiamine in my B complex. Maybe when TTFD runs out I will try the remaining of my regular thiamine on it's own that I have and see.
-
I've noticed that the optimal time for me to release is actually 2-3 hours before bed. When I give my body 2-3 hours of time after releasing, I notice my body is able to process the inflammatory storm and move on. The sleep then completely recovers me so to speak, and I feel good the next day. When I immediately go to sleep, I wake up the next day with the feeling that my body still needs to process the inflammatory storm, and that the immediately sleep has almost "paused" the POIS inflammation. I will feel more more stressed overall w/ distinct CNS activation i.e., more stressed, cortosol, more sensitivity, etc the following day IF i did not give my body at least 1-2 hours of awake time to process.
I wonder if anyone else has noticed something similar?
-
Still havin electrolyte issues. Keto was a gamechanger, but unfortunately can't move past by the strange side effects from electrolyte supplementation. Problem appears to be somewhere in the sodium-potassium pump. But who knows.
On the other hand, I've realised a slight work around. I need glucose for adequate electrolyte balance. Fructose and lactose (majority of AB carbs) do not cut it. I feel better when I eat dried fruit (a significant source of glucose). I feel best when I eat starch (a significant source of slow release glucose). Unfortunately can't eat starch as that is what triggers/inflammes my POIS/food sensitivity condition the most.
-
Dropped electrolyte dosages to minimal amounts and this has fixed 100% of the side-effects. So clearly was simply taking too much for my system.
I seperate carbohydrate and fat meals apart. This helps significantly. Currently following a starch-free wholefoods diet (a cross between animal-based and keto basically). So I have 1 meal with lots of fruit, honey, etc. Then I will have another meal with lots of fat, meat, etc. Non calory foods can be eaten at any time of day, but when I mix fat and carbs together (in a low carb state), I get severe electrolyte problems: headaches, lethargy, low energy, etc. I only really need to seperate the meals apart by at least 20-30 minutes. Ideally 30-60 minutes.
For electrolytes I've been taking 100mg of potassium (from potassium citrate), and 30mg of magnesium (from 150mg of magnesium malate). I salt to taste. My body doesn't seem to have problems holding onto salt.
-
I've stopped electrolyte supplementation all together atm and everything seems to be rolling smoothly inc. improved libido etc. Currenty diet has mostly still been AB, but with more veg than the past. My main rule of thumb is starch-free. Starch appears to be what is inflamming me. Tho I still occaisionally enjoy/induldge in whatever I like as long as I steer mostly clear of vegetable oil.
Seperating fatty meals from carb meals seems to fix many electrolyte issues, so that's what I've been doing a lot and is working well.
Tried RALA and apigenin, and haven't really noticed much medicinal benefit imo. I will try RALA at higher dosages but for now both seem to not do much and won't be adding them to my protocol.
Protocol feeling very dialled in atm.
Question to ChatGPT: Are there any nutrients or minerals that help the body to process carbs and fats simultaneously?
ChatGPT:
Yes, there are specific nutrients and minerals that play crucial roles in the metabolism of carbohydrates and fats simultaneously. These nutrients act as cofactors for enzymes involved in energy production and metabolic pathways:
Key Nutrients and Minerals
B Vitamins
Thiamine (B1): Required for carbohydrate metabolism and the TCA cycle, where fats and carbs converge for energy production.
Riboflavin (B2): Essential for fatty acid oxidation and carbohydrate metabolism.
Niacin (B3): Precursor for NAD and NADP, which are critical for both glycolysis (carb metabolism) and beta-oxidation (fat metabolism).
Pantothenic Acid (B5): A component of Coenzyme A, which is vital for the metabolism of both fats and carbohydrates.
Biotin (B7): Important for gluconeogenesis and fatty acid synthesis.
Magnesium
A cofactor for enzymes in glycolysis and the beta-oxidation pathway. It also helps activate ATP, the energy currency of the cell.
Chromium
Enhances insulin sensitivity, helping with glucose uptake while facilitating the balance between carbohydrate and fat metabolism.
Zinc
Involved in insulin signaling and enzyme activity for lipid and carbohydrate metabolism.
Lipoic Acid
Acts as a cofactor in mitochondrial energy production, bridging carbohydrate and fat metabolism in the TCA cycle.
Carnitine
Essential for transporting fatty acids into mitochondria for beta-oxidation, ensuring fats and carbohydrates can be metabolized simultaneously.
Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10)
Supports mitochondrial function, critical for energy production from both carbs and fats.
Iron
A component of cytochromes in the electron transport chain, which is crucial for the oxidation of both carbohydrates and fats.
Manganese
Supports the function of enzymes involved in gluconeogenesis and lipid metabolism.
Phosphorus
Involved in the formation of ATP and the activation of enzymes in carbohydrate and fat metabolism.
Synergistic Role
Many of these nutrients work together to ensure the efficient processing of carbohydrates and fats. For example:
Magnesium and B vitamins are synergistic in glycolysis and beta-oxidation.
Carnitine and CoQ10 collaborate in fatty acid oxidation.
Dietary Sources
B vitamins: Whole grains, eggs, meat, dairy, nuts, and green vegetables.
Magnesium: Leafy greens, nuts, seeds, and avocados.
Chromium: Broccoli, meats, and whole grains.
Carnitine: Red meat, fish, and dairy.
Iron: Red meat, legumes, and fortified cereals.
Interesting that Lipoic Acid came up. Perhaps it can help my body digest carbs and fats simultenously (in low carb states).
Chromium and carnitine are also interesting. AB is low in manganese.
-
Greek yoghurt w/ maple syrup is a POIS superfood! (Not sure if it's the Greek yoghurt, maple syrup, or both)
Proven it time and time and time again.
Red meat steak, fatty ground beef/lamb (unique amino acid profile w/ collagen), eggs, and Greek yoghurt w/ maple syrup are all anecdotally very good for my POIS recovery. Liver should be great in theory also, but I've never really noted feeling better after eating it. Maybe a slight buzz.
Orange juice also appears to give me superhuman energy when combined with red meat.
-
Hi Warrior!
I was wondering if you have ever tried methionine in comparison to SAM-e. The reason I ask this is that I did a one day experiment with L-methionine (2x500mg) a few days ago and even had an O around noon. Surprisingly though POIS was unexpectedly light throughout the day. Of course I took a lot of other supplements too, but I believe methionine must have played a role as well. One of the many supplements was boron, which may have a synergistic effect with methionine in SAM-e production. I also must say that this first time experience was actually way better than with SAM-e, which is a lot more expensive though. Later I am going to test it more to see if it remains useful. In the past others have also found methionine to be useful, but I could only find one comparison in regard of their efficacy.
What I noticed from the NADH & SAMe combination is more energy and less allergies. Less scratching, itching and general signs of inflammation such as hives. I got similar results from L-methionine but it worked best when I felt energetic whereas SAMe seems to put me back on track even if I'm tired from working/exercising/whatever.
Hey man! Thanks for sharing this.
I'm not surprised AT ALL that you've had success with L-methionine. I haven't tried methionine but I am familiar with reading up on it regarding methyl donors. It's interesting how SAM-e didn't work as well for you, but L-methionine worked better. Methylation is so complicated, no one really understands at this point exactly how it all works. The best thing we can all do is experiment (safely) with all methyl donors and see how each one feels for you.
Methionine is actually an 'essential amino acid that serves as a precursor to SAM'. How much meat/protein do you eat? Perhaps if you eat a low meat / low protein diet, you are low on methionine, which would make sense why you've responded positively to it.
Here's a list of methyl donors which, according to the theory of methylation nutrients improving POIS symptoms, these all have the potential of having a positive effect in improving POIS symptoms:
Apart from the main ones - choline, betaine, folic acid, methionine, and vitamins B6 and B12
Here's some extras - carnitine, melatonin, quercetin
This website (https://kresserinstitute.com/treating-methylation-supplementing/)refers to these as 'methylation adaptogens' which include curcumin, betanin, anthocyanins, quercetin, rosmarinic acid, lycopene, and sulforaphane.
I'm sure theres many more out there!
Minerals are also super important for methylation. So, not surprised if boron is helping - it obviously may also be helping in other ways.
I am sorry for the late response!
Earlier I thought that I mainly have problems with acetylation. However by time I had realized that it must be more than just acetylation or methylation. So what I believe is that they are only part of the problem and practically all post-translational modifications (PTMs) are involved to some degree. The principal reason is that practically all PTMs are affected by lipid peroxidation and ultimately this may actually manifest as an autoimmune disease.
Protein post-translational modifications (PTMs) increase the functional diversity of the proteome by the covalent addition of functional groups or proteins, proteolytic cleavage of regulatory subunits, or degradation of entire proteins. These modifications include phosphorylation, glycosylation, ubiquitination, nitrosylation, methylation, acetylation, lipidation and proteolysis and influence almost all aspects of normal cell biology and pathogenesis. Therefore, identifying and understanding PTMs is critical in the study of cell biology and disease treatment and prevention.
https://www.thermofisher.com/ie/en/home/life-science/protein-biology/protein-biology-learning-center/protein-biology-resource-library/pierce-protein-methods/overview-post-translational-modification.html
Some of the lipid peroxidation products exhibit a facile reactivity with proteins, generating a variety of intra- and intermolecular covalent adducts. Such adducts could be the targets of B cell-mediated immune responses and induce T cell responses and add the potential of certain aldehydes to induce an autoimmunity by breaking the B cell tolerance to nonmodified proteins. It has been shown that the modification of self-proteins by lipid peroxidation products indeed results in a break of a tolerance to self-proteins. The fact that post-translational modification of proteins is enhanced in aging and stressed cells and arises under physiological conditions suggests the existence of an association between covalent modification of protein with lipid peroxidation products and autoimmune diseases.
Based on these findings, we proposed the hypothesis that post-translational protein modification with lipid peroxidation products, such as HNE, could serve as an immunological trigger for the production of anti-DNA autoantibodies in autoimmune diseases.
https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(20)74652-1/fulltext
-
Reminder that D3 serum is KING.
I haven’t taken D3 for a long time, and let my serum levels drop quite low (relatively). Last test done many months ago it was sitting at 34ng/mL. My personal researched & anecdotal recommendation is 50-70ng/mL as being optimal. I got it tested again a week or so ago, but waiting to see GP for result.
I intentionally stopped taking it because it seems to worsen another condition I have, which is some sort of eye strain/ache. Currently working with optometrist/specialist on that.
But I’ve seen a drastic decline in quality of mood, energy, and recovery from POIS. Took some D3 again today (first in many months) and the immediate improvement in mood, clarity, energy, etc was astoundingly clear.
D3 serum is a critical part of my POIS protocol. It’s the bread and butter. Along with replenishing methylation, animal-based diet, etc. They’re all so important. Then chuck a few herbs on top (cordyceps & monolaurin), and replenish some immune nutrients (glutathione/NAC, zinc, etc)
-
I was wrong in thinking that I no longer need to take a B complex. I thought I was for sure getting adequate methyl donors and B complex vitamins from diet alone, especially that I eat a lot of meat, chicken, eggs, dairy, etc. How painfully wrong I was. POIS is clearly depleting methyl donors/B vitamin complex nutrients at such rapid rates, dietary replenishment simply does not result in an optimised experience and health.
I decided to stop taking the B complex as often because I didn't like the idea of chronically elevated B vitamin levels. But since stopping the B complex, I've seen a drastic reduction in my health and my methods effectiveness:
Droopy eyes.
Low motivation.
Less energy. Tired.
Less clarity.
Worst mood.
More anxiety, CNS activation etc.
Less dopamine. Music sounds bad, etc.
These symptoms are exactly what my B complex fixes and optimises.
I was exceptionally lucky to find this particular B complex. It was literally the first one I tried. I've tried many B complex's, and they do not appear to be as effective as this one. The magic is in it's high dosages, but I'm not sure what specific nutrients are carrying most of the benefit.
The only issue I am experiencing with the B complex is at times I will experience apathy. But still much less so compared to never taking the B complex at all. My goal moving forward is to try to figure out what nutrients my body needs to balance excess methyl donors/B complex vitamins.
The 150 B Forte Complex will remain a staple in my POIS stack likely for the rest of my life.
I would be interested to see the effects this particular B complex has on other POIS patients. If you don't have issues with folic acid, I highly recommend: https://www.naturesown.com.au/products/energy/ultra-b-150-forte/
Nature's Own make another B complex called Super B Complex, which is just another B complex with lower dosages compared to Ultra B 150 Forte. The effects of this B complex are absolutely subpar compared to Ultra B 150 Forte.
It's also worth mentioning taking TTFD 100mg was not as powerful as this high dose B complex (which includes 150mg of thiamine).
I also suspect many of the sensitivity issues I've been having lately are to do with inadequate B complex vitamins. Sensitivity to electrolytes (which is very weird and unusual), etc. Many of the issues I was seemingly having have kind of dissappeared overnight since taking the B complex again. But I still need to figure out how to deal with excess methyl donors/B complex vitamin nutrients.
There must be some nutrient within the cycle that helps to balance excess to prevent the apathy I experience sometimes.
Here's a list from GPT of nutrients that help to balance excess methyl donors or B complex vitamins:
Magnesium, vitamin C, zinc, potassium, choline, taurine, tryptophan, tyrosine, omega-3, phosphatidylserine, adequate electrolytes, glycine, molybdenum, Phosphatidylserine, selenium, vitamin E, copper, ALA, l-theanine.
I suspect one of these are depleted from excess methyl donors/B complex vitamins that the body uses to refind homeostasis preventing unwanted symptoms ie., apathy.
Moving forward I am going to work on figuring out how to fix this excess issue. Will experiment with many of the nutrients above. If that doesn't work, I will experiment with different custom B complex formulas the find whats optimal for me. Thats the path forward atm.
Theory:
apathy increases around POIS because of bad electrolyte retention from frequent urination. I get frequent urination for at least 3 days or so following release.
sodium, potassium, & magnesium are needed for proper neurotransmitter status. B complex vitamins also increases demand for magnesium and potassium.
This may be why after so many years on AB taking electrolytes dramatically improved libido, energy, etc. Electrolytes need adequate B complex vitamins to work properly as well. So removing B complex vitamins caused electrolytes to behave dysfunctionally i.e., side effects from potassium, magnesium, & sodium
List of nutrients that appear to improve apathy, at least initially:
* B complex (Ultra B 150 Forte)
* Potassium
* Taurine?
-
I'm going to work and experiment on my own custom B complex at some point:
B1 (Thiamine): 100-300mg [open to experimentation along w/ different types]
B2 (Riboflavin): 2-25mg [some experimentation, maybe higher dosages but I doubt it's necessary]
B3 (Nicotinamide): 100-500mg [open to experimentation, esp. for POIS medicinal effects]
B5 (Pantothenate): 100-150mg
B6 (P5P): 2-25mg [keeping nice & low to avoid side-effects & improve long-term safety]
B12 (Methylcobalamin or Adenosylcobalamin): 100-1000mcg [open to experimentation, unsure if methyl groups attached to B12 continue to provide medicinal benefit (probably), while B12 lvls in bloods were more than satisfactory]
Folate (Folic Acid): 0-100mcg [prefer to stop alltogether, as long as folate RDA is satisfied through diet]
Biotin: 100mcg
The purpose of this is to remove excess nutrients (along with their side-effects), and emphasis those that appear to get depleted faster through POIS and/or improve POIS at higher dosages i.e., possibly B1, methyl B12, etc. Much of this will be experimentive. My B12 and folate were both high in past bloods, something I'd prefer to bring down long-term. So those nutrients will be reduced accordingly. But it's possible the methyl groups attached to B12 continue to provide benefit, so it's something I will need to figure out with time.
I would also prefer to stop folic acid supplementation alltogether and just get all folate RDA through diet. Folate is actually very easy to get RDA through brocolli and navy beans, or beef liver and orange juice on AB. Folate supplementation also very commonly produces side-effects.
-
Its summer where you are right now? I was also having a lot of greek yogurt this summer, it made me feel fantastic and refreshed.
Also agree with orange juice and citrus fruits in general, if I don't eat enough fruits for a while the first bite makes me feel like Im alive again.
But most importantly, red meat has the biggest impact. Even now and this past summer, when I was out of POIS and hadn't released in a long time, I could tell my whole mental and physical health sinks when I don't eat enough red meat. It feels like it completely stabilizes everything in my body and grounds me. And no other food I've tried has this same effect, not chicken, not milk, not eggs, not veggies, not fruits, only red meat.
In the past, before I joined this forum when my POIS was mild, I could still tell when I wasn't having enough red meat by how long it took to recover from Os, specifically by lower back pain and general fatigue, actually maybe my POIS was mild because I made sure to eat a lot of meat and red meat regularly. We've been eating a fair bit of chicken and fish these past couple days and I haven't released in a while but I still feel like Im not eating enough red meat Im feeling tired and on the edge. I heard red meat is full of b vitamins so you might be onto something.
-
Hi Warrior,
Thanks for sharing your journey.
What is your % of relief today with your diet ?
I am thinking of trying an AIP diet as it?s what you have started with but it seems that your diet has changed a lot since with lots of supplements.
My symptoms are mostly mental with strong brain fog appearing directly after release.
Do you still think AIP diet is enough to block your symptoms ? I can?t figure out at what extent it worked for you as you seem to have added lots of modifications to the AIP diet.
Also Nanna1?s cascade stack did not help for my post (tried it for 1 month). I am thinking of trying the betaherpesvirinae some time but I can?t find any testimonies of anyone that took it with success except Nanna1 but it?s unclear as he tried it for a short period and with other supplements and just after doing his cascade stack diet.
Also I have trouble understanding the sense of all that as you are taking an animal based diet which is The opposite of Nanna1?s cascade stack. Supposedly it would raise Arachidonic Acid and launch Pois reaction. I am wondering if Nanna1 is not making a mistake in his explaination of the pois cascade. Overall except Nanna1 it?s hard to find other Poisers that benefited from his stack.
In a nutshell my main question is do you think AIP diet alone treats your pois.
Thanks !
-
Hi Warrior,
Thanks for sharing your journey.
What is your % of relief today with your diet ?
I am thinking of trying an AIP diet as it?s what you have started with but it seems that your diet has changed a lot since with lots of supplements.
My symptoms are mostly mental with strong brain fog appearing directly after release.
Do you still think AIP diet is enough to block your symptoms ? I can?t figure out at what extent it worked for you as you seem to have added lots of modifications to the AIP diet.
Also Nanna1?s cascade stack did not help for my post (tried it for 1 month). I am thinking of trying the betaherpesvirinae some time but I can?t find any testimonies of anyone that took it with success except Nanna1 but it?s unclear as he tried it for a short period and with other supplements and just after doing his cascade stack diet.
Also I have trouble understanding the sense of all that as you are taking an animal based diet which is The opposite of Nanna1?s cascade stack. Supposedly it would raise Arachidonic Acid and launch Pois reaction. I am wondering if Nanna1 is not making a mistake in his explaination of the pois cascade. Overall except Nanna1 it?s hard to find other Poisers that benefited from his stack.
In a nutshell my main question is do you think AIP diet alone treats your pois.
Thanks !
My relief today is still very very good. Hard to put a number on it. Still night and day difference compared to what I experienced in the past. But my relief is still very reliant on my protocol. If I stop taking my B complex or start eating foods I am sensitive to for example, symptoms get worst very quickly.
I have tried lots of diets as you've seen. The most effective for me has been a starch-free animal-based diet. Eliminating starches has been the most important for me in regards to mitigating inflammation. Though just recently I have introduced navy beans to specifically get molybdenum. So far I have actually been tolerating them well. But overall the best diet for me has been starch-free animal-based, which was better than AIP.
AIP was not as good as animal-based, for me. It seems to be a very individual thing, so you really just need to listen to your own body and see what it likes best. Mine clearly prefers starch-free animal-based, but I am actually trying to expand my food groups to cover possible nutrient deficiencies i.e., molybdenum.
Yes Nanna1 hypothesised AA consumption worstens POIS. I haven't actually gone on a vegan diet to prove his hypothesis, mostly because my symptoms would become far too intense from the starch I would inevitably have to consume on such a diet (hard to keep weight on with such a diet). I went on a 10-day Vipassana retreat many years back where I only ate vegetarian. I remember the food making me anxious back then (I didn't realise the foods were causing it though).
AIP does not improve my POIS as well as animal-based, but it certainly is better than eating a standard high starch diet. Sweet potato was also relatively benign compared to other starches, but still not great.
The best thing you can do is try them all (animal-based, keto, carnivore, vegetarian, wholefoods, vegan, etc) at least temporarily and see which one your body responds best to. We're all different. You need to listen and see what your individual biology likes. Only limit food groups if you have to (if I ate grains/starches my body would be in constant inflammation, body aches, fatigue, mood issues, etc). Track diet in cronometer for a few weeks and see which nutrients you aren't eating enough of. You want to dial them in at some point to prevent long-term deficiencies. That's kinda what I'm in the process of doing now.
All of this is just lots of trial and error. That's also why my supplement stack and protocol changes quite often (though the core has remained largely the same - B compex and animal-based diet). I experiment a lot. I try to remove things that I think may not be necessary, only to realise later on how much they were still helping i.e., B complex. The body also changes a lot over time, especially in response to supplements.
-
Its summer where you are right now? I was also having a lot of greek yogurt this summer, it made me feel fantastic and refreshed.
Also agree with orange juice and citrus fruits in general, if I don't eat enough fruits for a while the first bite makes me feel like Im alive again.
But most importantly, red meat has the biggest impact. Even now and this past summer, when I was out of POIS and hadn't released in a long time, I could tell my whole mental and physical health sinks when I don't eat enough red meat. It feels like it completely stabilizes everything in my body and grounds me. And no other food I've tried has this same effect, not chicken, not milk, not eggs, not veggies, not fruits, only red meat.
In the past, before I joined this forum when my POIS was mild, I could still tell when I wasn't having enough red meat by how long it took to recover from Os, specifically by lower back pain and general fatigue, actually maybe my POIS was mild because I made sure to eat a lot of meat and red meat regularly. We've been eating a fair bit of chicken and fish these past couple days and I haven't released in a while but I still feel like Im not eating enough red meat Im feeling tired and on the edge. I heard red meat is full of b vitamins so you might be onto something.
I still haven't quite pinpointed what it is in red meat that makes me feel so great. I think it may be the iron. I got a similar response to eating liver. I don't seem to get much response from eating oysters (super high in zinc). My latest iron panel also showed from what I remember the body holding iron stores due to inflammation. So maybe this has something to do with it.
-
Hi Warrior,
Thanks for sharing your journey.
What is your % of relief today with your diet ?
I am thinking of trying an AIP diet as it?s what you have started with but it seems that your diet has changed a lot since with lots of supplements.
My symptoms are mostly mental with strong brain fog appearing directly after release.
Do you still think AIP diet is enough to block your symptoms ? I can?t figure out at what extent it worked for you as you seem to have added lots of modifications to the AIP diet.
Also Nanna1?s cascade stack did not help for my post (tried it for 1 month). I am thinking of trying the betaherpesvirinae some time but I can?t find any testimonies of anyone that took it with success except Nanna1 but it?s unclear as he tried it for a short period and with other supplements and just after doing his cascade stack diet.
Also I have trouble understanding the sense of all that as you are taking an animal based diet which is The opposite of Nanna1?s cascade stack. Supposedly it would raise Arachidonic Acid and launch Pois reaction. I am wondering if Nanna1 is not making a mistake in his explaination of the pois cascade. Overall except Nanna1 it?s hard to find other Poisers that benefited from his stack.
In a nutshell my main question is do you think AIP diet alone treats your pois.
Thanks !
My relief today is still very very good. Hard to put a number on it. Still night and day difference compared to what I experienced in the past. But my relief is still very reliant on my protocol. If I stop taking my B complex or start eating foods I am sensitive to for example, symptoms get worst very quickly.
I have tried lots of diets as you've seen. The most effective for me has been a starch-free animal-based diet. Eliminating starches has been the most important for me in regards to mitigating inflammation. Though just recently I have introduced navy beans to specifically get molybdenum. So far I have actually been tolerating them well. But overall the best diet for me has been starch-free animal-based, which was better than AIP.
AIP was not as good as animal-based, for me. It seems to be a very individual thing, so you really just need to listen to your own body and see what it likes best. Mine clearly prefers starch-free animal-based, but I am actually trying to expand my food groups to cover possible nutrient deficiencies i.e., molybdenum.
Yes Nanna1 hypothesised AA consumption worstens POIS. I haven't actually gone on a vegan diet to prove his hypothesis, mostly because my symptoms would become far too intense from the starch I would inevitably have to consume on such a diet (hard to keep weight on with such a diet). I went on a 10-day Vipassana retreat many years back where I only ate vegetarian. I remember the food making me anxious back then (I didn't realise the foods were causing it though).
AIP does not improve my POIS as well as animal-based, but it certainly is better than eating a standard high starch diet. Sweet potato was also relatively benign compared to other starches, but still not great.
The best thing you can do is try them all (animal-based, keto, carnivore, vegetarian, wholefoods, vegan, etc) at least temporarily and see which one your body responds best to. We're all different. You need to listen and see what your individual biology likes. Only limit food groups if you have to (if I ate grains/starches my body would be in constant inflammation, body aches, fatigue, mood issues, etc). Track diet in cronometer for a few weeks and see which nutrients you aren't eating enough of. You want to dial them in at some point to prevent long-term deficiencies. That's kinda what I'm in the process of doing now.
All of this is just lots of trial and error. That's also why my supplement stack and protocol changes quite often (though the core has remained largely the same - B compex and animal-based diet). I experiment a lot. I try to remove things that I think may not be necessary, only to realise later on how much they were still helping i.e., B complex. The body also changes a lot over time, especially in response to supplements.
Thanks for your detailed answer. Your starch free diet is on my list of treatments to try. I?ll update here if I do it.
The thing is it?s hard to ? listen to my body ? as when I?m not under POIS I function normally no matter what I eat. And when I am on POIS it?s too late. The only way to try diets is going on a diet for a month and see if it prevents POIS.
Whereas it seems that diet is always affecting you even when you are not on POIS ?
-
Thanks for your detailed answer. Your starch free diet is on my list of treatments to try. I?ll update here if I do it.
The thing is it?s hard to ? listen to my body ? as when I?m not under POIS I function normally no matter what I eat. And when I am on POIS it?s too late. The only way to try diets is going on a diet for a month and see if it prevents POIS.
Whereas it seems that diet is always affecting you even when you are not on POIS ?
My body functions similar in that when I'm not under POIS, food sensitivities go away. But mine takes a long time of abstaining for this to occur. At least 4-5 weeks.
So that leaves me with a very large amount of opportunity to test, considering that I basically need to do semen retention if I don't want food sensitivities.
Also, I don't just test to see if food sensitivities make POIS worst. I usually go off how I feel immediately after the meal - they're the symptoms I usually test for. Basically I don't need to release to test my food sensitivities, unless I've abstained for 4-5+ weeks.
-
Currently experimenting with a new B complex multivitamin with active methyl folate, 'Whole Earth & Sea Men's Multivitamin' credit to u/7e7en87/ from reddit. Does seem to enable me to tolerate active methyl folate better when taking this supplement, which I can only assume is a co-factor thing.
I like this supplement as well because the dosages are much more moderate and thus sustainable long-term. Way less likely to lead to imbalances. Not to mention the wide array of nutrients it contains.
I am also experimenting with riboflavin 100mg additional, and that seems to be giving excellent results. My system seems to need more riboflavin than usual. I think this may be to do with my past synthetic folic acid supplementation. I tried this supplement because I sense my body's ability to convert folic acid into the active form appears to be impaired, which was not always the case. My homocysteine was higher than usual and the B complex was not as powerful as it once was.
So current methylation stack is:
- Whole Earth & Sea Men's Multi (includes B complex vitamins, active methyl folate, & bunch of important vitamins/minerals all in moderate/humble dosages, good for long-term sustainability & much less likely to lead to imbalances long-term)
- Riboflavin 100mg
Will experiment with adding thiamine again, but I sense riboflavin appears to be very important, perhaps more so than thiamine. My mood is incredible when taking the extra riboflavin.
-
I've mistakenly been suffering from a K2 deficiency. It's hard to get K2 on animal-based without eating fermented foods, so my dietary intake was already almost non existent. Taking high dosages of D3 (14,000iu) would've depleted the heck out of it, and my calcium dietary intake sometimes can be double the RDA (2000mg) which would chew up even more K2.
I've even been tracking my diet on Cronometer and openly saw I was no where near hitting the RDA for K2, but in my mind I associated K2 as an unimportant nutrient. That it didn't really matter and the consequences of a deficiency wouldn't be so bad. How wrong I was. lol
I took about 1mg per 10,000iu of D3 back when I was megadosing D3. K2 is fat soluble. So that kind of goes to show how much K2 high dosages of D3 chews through, especially with a high calcium/dairy diet. I think most people's K2 supplementation with D3 is too small. My specialist recommended 1mg per 10,000iu. Most people do 100mcg per 10,000 iu...
-
Some updates.
Caffeine to perceptual threshold (dose where you feel the caffeine working) is very effective for clearing up mild POIS symptoms for my cluster. Doesn’t work if you take a below threshold dose ie., if your tolerance requires 200mg daily to feel the effects & you take 100mg, it won’t help POIS.
I’ve began taking beef organ supplements and do feel better with them. I’ve felt lately that I am missing key nutrients. Eating only red meat, eggs, fish, sardines, fruit, and dairy is catching up on me. So I tried to introduce more non AB foods but unfortunately most if not all plant foods exacerbate symptoms, body aches, fatigue, clear signs of inflammations etc. I always thought organ pills were a waste of money given that it’s just powdered organs, but when you break down the logic of it: they’re freeze dried, where water has been removed (water makes up much of the mass of fresh raw organs). So they actually end up quite nutritious and worthwhile imo. Eating organs would be ideal, but I find them to be quite disgusting.
Started taking extra copper to counter low copper lvls.
Also trying maca root. So far feel an increase in energy & vitality. Lately I’ve felt my body system to be quite flat. So I’m exploring different herbs for revitalisation & adaptogens to bring back to optimal homeostasis.
B complex, cordyceps, monolaurin, NAC, D3, mag, K2 all remain staples of my stack. I’ve stopped taking D3, mag, & K2 for a bit as I noticed I wasn’t feeling as good with them.
Healing mysterious health issues like POIS requires constant experimentation, testing, & listening to the body. There are so many powerful herbs, nutrients, practices, lifestyle changes, & supplements out there that can help. You just need to meet your body where it’s at, and realistically given how limited the science is regarding POIS, this process is going to require tonnes of experimentation. Remember to, modern pharmaceutical medicine is for the most part derived from herbalism. This process isn’t without risk of course, but this is the hand of life we’ve been given.
-
One interesting thing I noticed when I went keto is that I tolerated plant foods better. When I’m on AB, I don’t tolerate plant foods well at all. On keto, I was able to eat a decent variety of vegetables without problems it seems.
I think the cause of POIS is a really, really stubborn chronic infection. It makes it even more difficult given that the infection is internal. Like a stubborn fungal toe nail, you try treatment after treatment with varying degrees of effectiveness, until you eventually stumble on to your cure. Even so, the cure may take 3-6 months of consistent work. Now imagine doing something like that with an internal infection. Not easy without medical testing. Candida overgrowth is still on the table as a cause for my own POIS.
-
Systemic candida overgrowth
https://www.byronherbalist.com.au/gut-health/candida-infections-when-harmless-becomes-harmful/
This guy has lots of good info on gut dysbioses, candida, etc. I will be working directly with him soon to do a complete deep dive into the gut, candida/gut testing, etc.
The gut microbiome is a complex system. Far too complex to just throw random stuff into something we don’t understand. Far too many nuances, traps, conditions, and complexity.
Need to work with practitioners & specialists that are more developed, modern, & intelligent in their thinking.
- Stage yellow spiral dynamics.
- Synergistic, holistic.
- They take what’s useful from multiple domains (modern medicine, science, traditional medicine, TCM, herbalism, ayervadic, etc.)
- Honest about their limitations, what they know, and what they don’t know
- Do not guarantee results per se, given that these systems are far too complex to guarantee anything. This is a green flag
- Knowledge & understanding of multiple systems & factors that make up chronic illness inc. gut microbiome, nutrition, toxicity, organs, herbs, environmental, etc.
- Non ideological in their thinking. They take what works. They learn multiple facilities with an open mind to explore & identify what actually works
Most modern doctors do not do this. Modern medicine is not currently equipped to handle the complexities of POIS and other complex chronic illness. Their practices are far too limited.
POIS requires very individualised and specific treatment and testing to each case.
-
I'm noticing that I seem to tolerate canned navy beans and microwaved packets of whole rice seemingly well. Tested the canned navy beans for quite some time now. I wonder if this is because of how they've been processed, cooked, pressurised, etc.
Edit: still get some symptoms from the rice but it’s definitely minimal compared to reg white rice ??
-
Brief update:
Seeing a new specialist here in Australia. He has quite a decent following on YT: Byron Herbalist.
Will be exploring and testing a bunch of things. Getting Organic Acids Test (OAT) test done. This will help diagnose potential candida/fungal issues and provide a lot of interesting data overall. Will be playing with a bunch of different adaptogens and herbs. High dose TTFD is also something he's suggested. We're aiming to gather more actual data about my condition. He thinks it's all very interesting.
-------------------
On another note, today I had huge epiphanies on using the mind to heal. Thanks to Muon's quote,
21 February 2025 from channel Limbic Recovery: "How I recovered from POIS after years of struggle (Brain retraining saved me)"
https://youtu.be/qXiMCRlKiTo
I discovered this new YouTube channel. Connected a lot of dots with my experiences in meditation and consciousness. I think brain retraining is definitley being slept on by most including myself. DNRS, Joe Dispensa, Primal Trust are some different resources that teach the fundamentals of using the mind to heal physiology.
Our mind has more conscious control over our body's physiology than what western culture understands. Physiology, biochemistry, hormones, and physical states are absolutely influenced and effected by mind. All these practices simply work towards altering the physiology, biochemistry, and physical health state through mind.
There is no doubt that POIS and many other complex chronic conditions stem from physical causes (some stemming from mental causes as well). That doesn't change any of this. You can manipulate the body's biochemistry and physiological processes through mind. That's all it comes down to.
So from here onwards I am going to do a deep dive into all this stuff. Tackling my condition from physical and mental means.
Just for clarity's sake, my POIS symptoms are the most benign and under control they've ever been. I can release as desired. My food sensitivities are what negatively effect my quality of life and long-term health. My main goal is to completely cure my food sensitivities (and in doing so, POIS should also be cured as they are interconnected into the same condition).
I may as well call my current health condition: 'Interconnected Chronic Food Sensitivities & POIS'
I also wonder about applying the volume of a Vipassana retreat to brain retraining. Meditation and brain retraining in this context are very similar and share a lot of overlap. In theory, you could vastly improve the speed of results from brain retraining by simply undertaking an intensive retreat.
-
Frequent methyl donor supplementation is still necessary long-term, regardless of how much I release or what diet I’m on. It’s the only supplement I need to consistently take.
When I stop taking my B complex for a week, I begin to get symptoms that I associate with a depletion of methyl donors.
I start getting more anxious than usual, weird facial sensations, brain fog, dusky etc. These all improve significantly when I take methyl donors again.
However the B complex I’ve been relying on for the past few years equally continues to give me side effects. So currently trying to identify the most important nutrients within the B complex. I’ve stated this numerous times but never actually gotten around to doing it lol.
Starting off with methyl B12, folic acid, and B6. Haven’t taken B complex for ~ week or so, and began feeling symptoms today. Took b12, folic acid, and b6 and immediately felt better. Will see how I feel in the coming days as well.
-
Frequent methyl donor supplementation is still necessary long-term, regardless of how much I release or what diet I’m on. It’s the only supplement I need to consistently take.
When I stop taking my B complex for a week, I begin to get symptoms that I associate with a depletion of methyl donors.
I start getting more anxious than usual, weird facial sensations, brain fog, dusky etc. These all improve significantly when I take methyl donors again.
However the B complex I’ve been relying on for the past few years equally continues to give me side effects. So currently trying to identify the most important nutrients within the B complex. I’ve stated this numerous times but never actually gotten around to doing it lol.
Starting off with methyl B12, folic acid, and B6. Haven’t taken B complex for ~ week or so, and began feeling symptoms today. Took b12, folic acid, and b6 and immediately felt better. Will see how I feel in the coming days as well.
hi , man.my sincerely greetings. i hope you to be good.
i feel in debt about your video and i want to say though my symptoms are not quite the same as your but they are some similarities.
i just wondered how you ever tried anticholinergic drug like Baclofen. these thing make me feel better. i tried them for considerable amount of time and that makes me feel better. if you haven't tried one maybe it is not a bad idea to play this kind of drug on trial
-
My cluster appears to respond to nicotinamide. Today took 1g total (500mg x 2) an hour or so apart. Approx 1-3 hrs later, had a Thai lunch w/ white rice. Normally this would trigger food sensitivities but this time nothing.
My meal also contained Thai milk tea. Not sure if tea combination w/ nicotinamide may influence outcome.
Day before took methyl B12 1000mcg, B6 100mg, and 500mcg folic acid. Had a Fishbowl meal & distinctively remember immune system activation, symptoms etc. Methyl donors improve POIS & symptoms overall, but do not provide any 100% temporary alleviation like nicotinamide appears to do. My intention with taking B3 today was more to try and reduce excess methylation symptoms, but seem to have inadvertently proven nicotinamide’s mysterious medicinal benefit for POIS. I must seek to clarify nicotinamide’s role in my stack moving forward.
Only realised this in hindsight today.
Documenting for future reference.
At some point, I will clarify this further. I’ve always had interesting results with B3, but never been able to empirically validate & repeat results long-term. Gino’s thread is also interesting.
So nicotinamide appears to provide two distinct medicinal uses for POIS, but maybe their medicinal outcome is related:
— reduces excess methyl donors in circumstances when excess B vitamins or methyl donors are consumed, as part of protocols
— mysterious unknown medicinal effect for temporarily alleviating POIS & complex cluster symptoms
Warning: niacin and nicotinamide are two different forms of b3. The type will determine different toxicity dosages. Overdosages of b3 can cause liver damage.
-
I suspect those who respond well to methyl donors for POIS do not seem to tolerate glycine well, and therefore will probably need to rely on B3 for excess methyl buffering. There appears to be something in the POIS complex condition that creates a sensitivity to glycine.
That appears to be the case for my cluster at least. Nicotinamide or niacin (B3) are very effective for reducing excess methyl donor symptoms and side effects.
Edit: seem to tolerate and receive better medicinal benefit from nicotinamide compared to niacin. Overall I just seem to feel better w/ nicotinamide whereas niacin tends to make me feel a bit more anxious. Not sure of the reasoning or if it’s a dosage thing etc but for now will stick with nicotinamide going forward.
-
Riboflavin is very balancing. Body appears to work better with more. 400mg can be useful for “strange” conditions/side effects according to Masterjohn.