POISCENTER
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: Quantum on August 07, 2016, 08:11:36 PM
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This thread is intended the be a work in progress, with progressive updating of the chart.
SEE THE COMPLETE POIS TYPES CHART IN THE POST JUST AFTER THIS ONE , at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448)
( following is an intro to the chart itself)
POIS is not exactly the same for every POIS sufferers, and it is clearer now that POIS is a group of similar syndromes having a common trigger ( ejaculation), a common pattern, but may cause different physiological events, thus different symptoms, even if similar, from one POIS sufferer to another . As a sign that POIS is not fully identical in every case, something helping one POISer can worsen the symptoms of another, or have no effect at all, pointing clearly to the fact that POIS is not a unique and identical syndrome in all sufferers. Niacin can help one, and have no effects for another. Like in diabetes, where you have Type I and Type II, it seems to me that there is more than just one type of POIS.
Since one of the best kind of information obtained from the forum is from members who have found something efficient for the relief of their symptoms, then I have chosen to base my POIS types on relief method. The rational behind this choice is that if two POIS sufferers get consistent relief for a long enough period of time from the same method or product, then at the physiological level, chances are their POIS are similar, even if their symptoms are not exactly the same. If two members that are both relieved by niacin, chances are they have the same type of POIS. Methods have to be effective for at least some months, and bring 70% to 100% relief, to be included in my chart.
From there, I hope to detect some patterns, so it would become possible, for example, to make some predictions, like if one has this kind of symptoms and his POIS is worsen by so and so, than this type of relief method could be efficient for him. I know this will take time to reach this, and will never be 100% accurate, but I sure want to give a shot at it.
Each type is named after the method or product that brought the relief ( Example: POIS type responding to niacin, meaning that this type of POIS is relieved when using the niacin protocol detialed in that section). For each type, I hope to identify some possible mechanism about how it brings relief, identify some reference members ( at least one, of course !), level of relief obtained, and so on. Than, if there is more than one known member for a particular POIS type, it will be interesting to try and see what they have specifically in common, like things that worsen their POIS, or their type of symptoms. Needless to say this will be a long process.
I know there will be numerous types of POIS at the start, but some may reveal later to be the same type and be fused.
All input from all members will be welcomed. For example, if you think you are a member of a type and wish to be listed as reference member, and add useful comments for that type, that go ahead. But this will imply that you had at least 2 to 3 months of consistent relief with the specific substance or method. If you find some common points with some other members of your type, something that is not common to all POISers, than that would be very, very interesting, and could become a predictive factor. For example, if members of a particular type have their symptoms worsen by a hot shower, and not the other types of POIS, that would be a specific parameter. I can make up some hypothesis here, to illustrate the potential usefulness of the chart: if all POISers who have their symptoms worsen by a hot shower have no relief with, let's say, niacin, and have relief with let's say, magnesium ( I made that up), than a new member having his symptoms worsen by a hot shower could think he is of this same type, and try magnesium ( after checking with a health professional, as usual). This will be no guarantee, but with time, this chart may become useful.
Of course, if you do not want to be listed as a reference member for a type of POIS, let me know by PM and I will remove your member name of the chart.
If you want another type to be added, let me know as well.
I will post the current version of the chart just after this post, and will update on that same post, rather than re-posting multiple versions of the chart.
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POIS Types Chart
and Their Possible Relief Methods
Pois types in this chart are named and classified according to the treatment or method they are positively responding to. If symptoms of two different members are relieved by the same method or treatment, they are considered, in this chart, to have the same POIS type.
1- POIS type: Responding to treatment with Niacin
Reference member(s) Daveman, Limejuice, Observer, Poisperson, Bluesbrother, victor.kons, Gino,...
Relief method description: Niacin taken on empty stomach, waiting for the flush to happen before ejaculation. Usually doses from 100mg to 300mg, but varies.
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 50% to 90%
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog (difficulty thinking and slow response time), impaired memory, headache, physical fatigue (low energy level), runny nose, insomnia, stiffness and pain in muscles and joints
POIS worsened by: hot showers, starches and simple carbs, long sleeping time, active physical training, Any ingestion, food, alcohol, anything but water, closer than 8 hours from orgasm, multivitamins daily (cancelling the niacin effect). smoking marijuana before O. (all these not confirmed by all ref. members, but by one at least ).
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information:
- Some members had success with non-flush type ( niacinamide).
- Also used: Xantinol Nicotinate in tablets 450 mg.
- Method of member Gino includes Matcha powdered tea (just before O) in addition to Niacin (within 2-6 hours before O), see his method at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3746.msg39754#msg39754 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3746.msg39754#msg39754)
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2 - POIS type: Responding to TRT
Reference member(s) Demografx, Green
Relief method description Testosterone Replacement Therapy ( warning, needs medical supervision) See detailed protocols below
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 70% to 80%
Possible reason for effectiveness: TRT possibly offsets severe drop in testosterone [depletion?]
POIS symptoms ( mainly): after ejaculation/at POIS onset.severe fatigue: emotional, physical, cognitive -- plus, all 10 fingertips dry up, feel like they're "burning", yet simultaneously "drained", and there persists a strange sensation/high anxiety about this weird short-term (4 days) dermatitis condition -- resulting in much inexplicable psychic pain/anguish ( Demo).
POIS worsened by: hot showers ( to be confirmed with other members of this POIS type)
No relief with : progesterone
Other comments and information: TRT can cause infertility, by decreasing sperm production; major family planning implications. Medical supervision - especially for young POISers - is critical.
In early 2022, Demografx added tadalafil 10mg ( Cialis) to his anti-POIS regimen. Recovery with TRT alone was 2 days, and when using TRT+taladafil, recovery is less than a day. Also, the intensity of symptoms is less with TRT + taladafil. ( note: considering that the duration of effect of tadalafil is around 36 hours, the timing of this medication intake is not a concern).
In 2023, Demografx changed his protocol in a significant manner:
Iinjections of Depo testosterone, 150mg/once a week
Cialis 5mg daily
L-Citrulline 3,000mg daily
CPAP nightly ( seems to help too)
Result (From Demografx): "1. My symptoms have changed to a different form of one that is much less agonizing and shorter in duration. 2. My new weekly-injection-based TRT (plus daily Cialis) treatment for POIS is a ‘dramatic improvement’ over my previous 10-year implementation of a daily transdermal 8mg TRT patch (no ED drug) protocol."
Alternate, personalized, regimen ( member: Green):
Testosterone 83mg per week
Fexafenodine on the day of orgasm
Paroxitine daily (20mg - 40mg)
Tramadol 4 caps (50mg)
Niacin 1000mg an hour prior to sex/O
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3 - POIS type: Responding to fenugreek and garlic
Reference member(s) Vincent M, hurray, Vanker, Observer, Warrior, others...
Relief method description: fenugreek, one or two 550mg capsules just before or just after ejaculation, garlic daily (?). Some take Fenugreek on a daily basis. Some take Fenugreek with tea rather than with garlic. Warrioronthetrot method initially included lectin-free diet, but fenugreek and garlic eventually proved to be the essential elements ( see details at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg42080#msg42080 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg42080#msg42080) and https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg43952#msg43952 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg43952#msg43952) ). Warrior updated solution in 2023 includes a animal-based diet ( gluten-free and grains-free - Paul Saladino diet) and a complex B supplement in addition to fenugreek and garlic, for improved effectiveness, see the details at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg42080#msg42080 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg42080#msg42080) .
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: up to 90% in some cases
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): very dry skin and straw hair seem to be more common in this group than others. Brain fog seems severe,in general , in this group, and social anxiety too.
POIS worsened by: hot showers ? ( to be confirmed)
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information: It is possible that this type is similar to the Mytelase/Lecithin type, because fenugreek is a good source of choline, and some members having relief with fenugreek ( ex: hurray) have also their symptoms worsened by hot shower. Also, fenugreek seems to be useful even if taken way after ejaculation, like 2 days after ( still provides some relief).
For a detailed experiment by Warrior about the respective effects of fenugreek and of garlic on his POIS symptoms, see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg44360#msg44360 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg44360#msg44360)
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4 - POIS type: Responding to cholinergic supplements/drugs
Reference member(s) POISse, Outsider, Floppy Banana , ( For eggs: Bulbo), ThisType
Relief method description: for Floppy Banana, Outsider : Mytelase ( 20mg) and lecithin, just before or after orgasm ( warning: taking Mytelase needs medical supervision), or Lecithin/choline/eggs intake before and during POIS. Also, see ThisType regimen at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2486.msg22620#msg22620 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2486.msg22620#msg22620) ( no Mytelase)
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: up to 90% relief
Possible reason for effectiveness: In this POIS type, main physiological effect would be a cholinergic deficit, corrected by cholinergic agents like Mytelase, or sources of choline like lecithin, choline itself, eggs, fenugreek, or else.
POIS symptoms ( mainly): fatigue, brain fog, insomnia, cognitive problems, speech problems
POIS worsened by: Hot showers ( confirmed by 3 members), and, depending on members: sports (increased insomnia, fatigue, brain-fog - POIse), milk and wheat products (POISse)
No relief with : claritin, zyrtec, niacin ( POISse)
Other comments and information: Could be included in this type the relief obtained in the long term by eating eggs daily, if we consider eggs as a good source of lecithin ( reference member: Bulbo). Also, there is a possible link between this type and the fenugreek type, because fenugreek is a good source of choline.
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5 - POIS type: Responding to Taurine
Reference member(s) b_jim
Relief method description: 600mg taurine each day ( and no sugar in diet )
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 90% relief on severity, duration reduced to 1/3 or less of usual duration ( if no sugar in diet)
Possible reason for effectiveness: possible correction of a Gaba or Dopamine imbalance ? Support of taurine hepatic detoxification pathway ?
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog, muscle weakness, muscle twitching, fatigue, ...
POIS worsened by: refined sugar ( increased duration and severity)
No relief with : B3 (niacin), garlic, fenugreek, olive oil, gluten-free diet, antihistaminics
Other comments and information: associated with skinny type, general anxiety, premature ejaculation, bad alcohol resistance, sluggish liver.
Note: for pattern detection, more than one reference member would be needed
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6 - POIS type name: Responding to pre-pack with IDO/TDO/NMDAr blockers+ anti-oxidants
Reference member(s) Quantum, G-man, romies, fsol, Michael218, Psy's husband
Relief method description: pre-pack taken 20 to 75 minutes before ejaculation, composed of IDO and TDO inhibitors ( Rosemary extract, peppered curcuma, quercetin ) , NMDAr blockers ( L-theanine, magnesium), Antioxidants ( lycopene, green tea extract, flaxseed oil), and some others ( for complete description of the pre-pack and the dosage of each element in it, see in this thread: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604) ). Some members have customized their pre-pack and have a different composition ( Michael218 pre-pack based on Complex-B vitamins and other components like antioxidants such as Vit C and E, see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg21433#msg21433 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg21433#msg21433) and http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg21438#msg21438 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg21438#msg21438) for complete composition of his pre-pack )
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 80% to 100% relief
Possible reason for effectiveness: block of toxic kynurenine metabolites production, and block of pro-inflammatory cytokines
POIS symptoms ( mainly): Fatigue, hypotension and exercise intolerance, marked emotional symptoms - irritability, anxiety, mood swings, ... (Quantum). Brain fog, fatigue, physical and emotional symptoms ( romies, fsol), Physical and cognitive symptoms ( G-man)
POIS worsened by: too much exercise/sports before or after ejaculation ( Quantum, romies ) ; caffeine crash after effect ends (fsol); refined sugars in diet/unhealthy diet
No relief with : level of relief not high enough if only some elements of the pack taken and not the whole.
Other comments and information: No worsening with hot showers; recovery after sport or physical training is longer than normal, regardless of POIS or any sexual activity, and seems to trigger symptoms similar to POIS but milder and for a shorter duration ( Quantum, romies, fsol )
more detailed information about this method at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604)
simplified pre-pack with post-pack ( romies): http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg19833#msg19833 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg19833#msg19833)
For Psy's husband's pre-pack and method: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg45741#msg45741 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg45741#msg45741)
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7 - POIS type : Responding to gluten-free diet ( and other diets)
Reference member(s) Going less crazy, jacksonsean, Vincent M (wheat-free diet), bbd2501 ( AIP diet ), bletzer ( AIP diet ) mike_sweden ( paleo), BuckarooBanzai88 ( gluten-free and nightshades-free diet ), Spartak
Relief method description: strict gluten free diet, dairy also avoided for GoingLessCrazy (
jacksonsean still have non-pasteurized dairies), or AIP diet
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 80% and more relief
Possible reason for effectiveness: reduce inflammatory reaction in the body due to food intolerance (?)
POIS symptoms ( mainly): Brain fog, fatigue, irritability, redness in the eyes, inability to communicate effectively or to concentrate ( presence of bloating in the bowels is more present in this type than other types of POIS )
POIS worsened by: anything with gluten in it ( or simply any grain, for GoingLessCrazy), additives like Carrageenan , eggs, dairies, or else, depending on the diet.
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information:For more info about the complete Going Less Crazy method and food list, see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2275.msg18450#msg18450 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2275.msg18450#msg18450) ; for more info about complete jacksonsean method: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1240.msg11486#msg11486 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1240.msg11486#msg11486). About bbd2501 diet: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2275.msg21620#msg21620 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2275.msg21620#msg21620) ; For more info on BuckarooBenzai88 diet: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2805.msg26099#msg26099 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2805.msg26099#msg26099) and https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2805.msg25371#msg25371 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2805.msg25371#msg25371) . For Spartak diet, see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2275.msg45409#msg45409 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2275.msg45409#msg45409)
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8 - POIS type: Responding to antihistamines
Reference member(s) Happy2, Certainlypois2, Nico, Wolf, eccentricbipois, mike_sweden
Relief method description: Zyrtec ( cetirizine) 10mg daily ( 6 pm), and Benadryl ( diphenydramine) just before or just after ejaculation ( 2 x 25mg ). Two other Benadryl 25mg capsules if another ejaculation later the same day Alternate method: Claritin ( 10mg of loratadine) daily, and Benadryl ( diphenydramine) just before or just after ejaculation ( member happy2 notes that Zyrtec/Benadryl combo far more effective for him than Claritin/Benadryl combo). For eccentricbipois : 25mg of hydroxyzine, 30 mins to 1 hour before orgasm, just before going to sleep. For mike_sweden: 12mg of promethazine ( Lergigan, Phenergan), suspension form, at bedtime, every day.
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 70% to 100% , but possible drowsiness/hangover from Benadryl/diphenhydramine or hydroxyzine the following day
Possible reason for effectiveness: Blocks the effects of a massive histamine release ? Neurological effects in the brain, like brain fog, caused by histamine ?
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog, fatigue, concentration/attention occasional symptoms; flu-like symptoms, burning sensation in lower back, physical fatigue, insomnia, bad mood, isolation from other people, depression
POIS worsened by: coming down from caffeine high ( would need confirmation by more than one member), mental or physical exertion on first days of POIS ( POIS symptoms will last a few more days), carbohydrates/sugars ( Happy2)
No relief with : Niacin, L-Tyrosine, Zinc, Acupuncture (eccentribipois)
Other comments and information: more info on antihistamines use in POIS at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1060.msg9574#msg9574. (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1060.msg9574#msg9574)
For eccentricbipois use of hydrozyzine, see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3317 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3317.msg34670#msg34670)
For mike_sweden thread about promethazine, see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4552.0 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4552.0)
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9- POIS type: Responding to methylation support and diet
Reference member(s) Kurtosis, nanna1, CuriousCharacter
Relief method description: use of methylation support supplement, and healthy diet ( lots of fruits and veggies, and so on)
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% relief
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): data to be added
POIS worsened by: data to be added
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information:
- Member Kurtosis no longer active on this forum or elsewhere about POIS, but you can find the final recap of his method at https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/35rh8o/kurtosis_explains_to_the_best_of_his_knowledge/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/35rh8o/kurtosis_explains_to_the_best_of_his_knowledge/)
- For nanna1 method see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21497#msg21497 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21497#msg21497) .
- For CuriousCharacter daily stack and pre-pack descriptions, see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2831.msg27282#msg27282 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2831.msg27282#msg27282) ( a modified version is also described later in the thread. Note: not clear if diet changes are part of his method )
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10 - POIS type: Responding to Beta-blockers/ Propranolol
Reference member(s) Arun, Laotzu1980, OpiesDad
Relief method description: For Arun: 10mg of propranolol just before or after ejaculation (warning, taking this medication needs medical supervision). For Laotzu: 40mg when in POIS wipes out cognitive symptoms and anxiety for a few hours. For OpiesDad, 60mg extended-release tablets, 2 times a day regularly.
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 75% relief. For Laotzu, 100% relief of cognitive symptoms for a few hours. OpiesDad 80% relief ( completed at 100% with other measures, see OpiesDad detailed method at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2335.msg44937#msg44937 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2335.msg44937#msg44937) )
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): Arun: faster and stronger heartbeat, muscle stiffness and pain, and others. For Laotzu: cognitive symptoms, Brain fog even outside of POIS, tiredness, insomnia, weakness, anxiety. For OpiesDad: red eye, fatigue, racing heart, difficulty speaking correctly, not being able to maintain a normal conversation, loss of focus and other cognitive symptoms, skin problems, aching joints, anxiety, painful testes, nausea, photophobia, headaches.
POIS worsened by: For Arun, Niacin, Antihistamines, sometimes made POIS worse (For OpiesDad, not worsened by niacin, and helped by antihistamines)
No relief with : For Arun, Niacin, Garlic, fenugreek, Antihistamines ) Saw Palmetto, Relora, For OpiesDad, niacin
Other comments and information: for more details about Laotzu method, see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2335.msg41030#msg41030 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2335.msg41030#msg41030) and https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3578.msg41276#msg41276 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3578.msg41276#msg41276). For OpiesDad method, see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2335.msg44937#msg44937 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2335.msg44937#msg44937)
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11- POIS: Responding to NSAID ( non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs)
Reference member(s) Dirkstar, Suppertime, nabrajjj, and other members
Relief method description: 400-800mg Ibuprofen 20 minutes before significant arousal (much earlier if not on an empty stomach). Suppertime protocol: 400mf of Ibuprofen just after orgasm, with lots of water ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2358.msg19679#msg19679 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2358.msg19679#msg19679) ). nabrajjj method: 400mg of ibuprofen before release, but taken daily at night to avoid POIS from nocturnal emissions.
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 80-90% on severity, unclear effect on duration
Possible reason for effectiveness: high amounts of prostaglandins created in the prostate and released internally during ejaculation, which bind to spinal neurons causing hypersensitivity and non-focal CNS stress ( hypothesis of prostaglandins production by prostate irritating spinal nerves comes from the neurologist who prescribed the NSAIDs to Dirkstar ). COX inhibition in the whole body, as an alternative explanation.
POIS symptoms ( mainly): Severe brain fog including short and long term amnesia, slurring of speech, hypersensitivity particularly to sound, thrumming of middle ear muscles, headache, nausea, head "stuffiness", fatigue, light sleep, sleeplessness, vivid dreams, scalp pimples w/in one day of orgasm then disappearing, crawling sensations on scalp and face; onset noticed w/in 30 minutes of orgasm or limited ejaculation near orgasm (though to a lesser degree), gradual increases in severity over 3 days then gradually disappears over next 5-7 days
POIS worsened by: Effects are cumulative with each ejaculation, intensity of orgasms
No relief with : Antihistamines, Niacin (need to revisit), B-12, Vitamin C, multi-vitamins, Tylenol before orgasm, good diet, exercise, alcohol
Other comments and information: Tylenol helps with hypersensitivity and sleep if taken before bedtime; Dirkstar also has developed early onset Parkinson's Disease possibly secondary to POIS via excitotoxicity of dopaminergic neurons; Dirkstar also had (self-diagnosed) hypoglycemia when younger and possibly lessened with fitness when older possibly contributing to excitotoxicity aspect of PD; Coffee might decrease duration of symptoms (but may have further stressed CNS leading to PD); May be related to hypersexuality and/or lengthy periods of arousal (intense dopaminergic stress); Dirkstar also seems to be prone to inflammatory disorders such as tendonitis, bursitis, and sinusitis; Dirkstar also has non-pattern hair loss since 15 yrs old implying a hormonal or auto-immune problem linked to puberty/sexual activity; Dirkstar diagnosed with restless legs syndrome which seems to correlate with POIS symptoms
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12 - POIS type: Responding to psychotherapy/sex therapy
Reference member(s) carmack97, lw
Relief method description: Carmack: 1year and a half of consulting a sexologist ( see more details at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2627.msg23025#msg23025 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2627.msg23025#msg23025) ). Lw: many months of psychotherapy and the use of self-help books ( see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2993.msg47354#msg47354 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2993.msg47354#msg47354) )
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% relief
Possible reason for effectiveness: strong psycho-somatic cause / psychologic blockage have been treated/re-programmed
POIS symptoms ( mainly): Carmack: lasted 4 days every time: depression (feeling low, people hating me, feeling like having no friends, losing interest in life, low self-esteem, suicidal fought), fatigue (especially on the first 3 days, feeling tired during the afternoon usually), brain fog, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, increased shyness. Lw: described as "5 days of hell" ( anxiety, depression, confused thinking, gastro-intestinal discomfort, etc)
POIS worsened by: data to be added
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information: data to be added
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13 - POIS type: Responding to CBD oil ( Cannabidiol hemp oil)
Reference member(s) : Vandemolen, Olaf
Relief method description: purified 20% cbd oil. Started with 1 drop before going to sleep. The next morning 1 drop and at night 1 drop. The next morning 2 drops and the at night 2 drops. The cbd oil worked after 2 weeks. For Olaf, 2 drops of 5% CBD oil at bedtime ( see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3283.msg34098#msg34098 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3283.msg34098#msg34098) )
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% POIS-free
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): flu-like symptoms, feeling cold, extreme fatigue, exhausted, palpitations, problems finding words, incoherent speech, dysarthria, concentration difficulties, quickly irritated, can not stand noise, photophobia, depressed mood, headache, itching eyes, painful eye, congestion nose, watery, runny nose, sneezing, white tongue, dirty taste in mouth, dry mouth, sore throat, muscle tension in back and neck, muscle weakness, pain muscles, stiffness muscles. Symptoms for 1 day, used to be 4 days. Also: No NE, no PE.
POIS worsened by: Symptoms worse if don’t ejaculate after sexual activity.
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information: comment from Vandemolen : "There is a guy who has been successfully treated by over the counter 3,5% cbd oil, but it didn’t help me"
Also, Vandemolen developed an allergy to CBD oil and had to stop using it . His comment on it: "after 2 months I was out of CBD oil. A few months later I get new cbd oil. But when I started I used 4 drops in just a few hours. I got allergic and got sick. After 6 months (last week) I started with 1 drop. It went well. Two days later again 1 drop. But I got sick again. So my allergy for cbd oil isn’t still over."
IMPORTANT NOTICE: CBD oil is not legal everywhere in the world, and, in fact, is still illegal in many countries.
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14 - POIS type: Responding to Physalis/groundcherries
Reference member(s) : Physi ( see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3306.msg34401#msg34401 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3306.msg34401#msg34401) )
Relief method description: Eating 20 to 25 Physalis ( berries, also called groundcherries or Inca berries or golden berries), 40 minutes to 1 hour before O ( if taken after O, not wroking)
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% POIS-free
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): strong brain fog, fatigue, memory loss, difficulties concentrating, lack of social skills, lack of confidence linked to not being in a normal state, lack of tact and humor. Symptoms last for 3 days when not taking the berries.
POIS worsened by: data to be added
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information:
1) It seems that the more dried the berries are, the more effective they are (you need less berries to get their effect, but member Physi not 100% sure of that hypothesis.)
2) There may be a peak of efficacy at 45-50 minutes after O, and then a decrease, depending on the number of berries you took. For example, a number of n berries may be effective at 45 minutes after O and not after 1 hour, whereas a quantity of n+10 berries may be effective at 1 hour after O. This, again, is just a hypothesis.
3) Before reaching the point at which berries start working (around 40 min), physalis are not effective
4) It doesn't work at all to take them after O. Once you are under POIS, berries are useless. They only work as a preventive treatment.
p.s.: two other members have reported initial success, but awaiting confirmation of further success/long term success before citing them as reference members.
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15 - POIS type: Responding to Milnacipran
Reference member(s) : Hurray, Jan
Relief method description: Hurray: king 25mg of milnacipran 1 hour before O ; Jan: 50 mg of milnacipran 1.5 hours before O ( warning, Milnacipran is a serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor used in the clinical treatment of fibromyalgia and depression and needs medical supervision, it is a prescription-only drug in most countries)
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% POIS-free
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog, impossibility to socialize, dry skin and scalp, aching articulations. Reference member Hurray had few physical symptoms.
POIS worsened by: data to be added
No relief with : other antidepressants: duloxetine, venlafaxine
Other comments and information: Hurray had some success in the past with fenugreek, but not possible at this point if this can help predict milnacipran effectiveness. Also, see notes on nausea and potentially high blood pressure vs dosing, with milnacipran for POIS, at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3312.msg43848#msg43848 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3312.msg43848#msg43848)
Jan has 100% effectiveness for over 3 months. He can work, run, do anything that he normally does, and no brain fog or fatigue. Additional note from Jan: "the combination of pre-pack (vitamins b, c, d, zinc, and calcium) and milnacipran does not seem to work well. Both times I've done this, I vomited, and milnacipran didn't work ."
For more info, see the milnacipran thread at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3312.msg34512#msg34512 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3312.msg34512#msg34512) . Down the thread, Hurray confirms that after 5 months, milnacipran is still effective to prevent his POIS symptoms.
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16 - POIS type: Responding to oral corticosteroids ( prednisone or dexamethasone)
Reference member(s) : BuckarooBanzai88, aquantiV (POIS Reddit forum member)
Relief method description: Taking 2,5 prednisone before O ( Buckaroo), or 2,5mg 1 hour before O, and another 2.5mg just after ( aquantiV). (warning, needs medical supervision, it is a prescription-only drug in most countries)Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 85% to 100% Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): data to be added
POIS worsened by: data to be added
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information:
BuckarooBanzai88 thread: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3447.msg36311#msg36311 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3447.msg36311#msg36311) . Prednisone have been working for over 6 months now. Used dexamethasone at first, but found out that prednisone start acting more quickly.
AquantiV thread on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/43yb2m/pois_treatment_that_has_been_working_for_me/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/43yb2m/pois_treatment_that_has_been_working_for_me/)
Also, member Nas had partial relief, mostly form cognitive symptoms, with 1 mg of dexamethasone after O ( see https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=73.msg28291#msg28291 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=73.msg28291#msg28291) and https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg29425#msg29425 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg29425#msg29425)). With dexamethasone, his recovery takes 2 days instead of seven. However, he mentions that dexamethasone does not stop other POIS symptoms like his psychological and emotional symptoms.
A short mention of dexamethasone use here, but no follow for long-term effectiveness: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=31.msg14133#msg14133 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=31.msg14133#msg14133)
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17 - POIS type: Responding to progestins / norethisterone
Reference member(s) : Reference is a published case report, at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028282/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028282/)
Relief method description: Taking 5mg of norethisterone (norethindrone) 30 minutes before sexual activity
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 95% POIS-free ( still effective at 10 months follow-up)
Possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms : Constant pounding headache, photophobia, increased muscle tension and irritability, increased anxiety and impaired cognitive functioning, mental concentration difficult/difficult to read and retain, frequent nightmares, problem solving difficult (can take three times as long), absent-minded and disorganized, motivated to avoid social interaction, fatigue and lethargy especially in the mornings, constant urge to go home and sleep. Condition disappears quickly after 72 h (with return of normal function and confidence).
POIS worsened by: data to be added
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information: In the article, the case is referred to as "Benign coital headache", not as POIS, but from the symptoms list and disappearance after 72h, it really seems to be a POIS case. However, it is possible that the author, probably a neurologist, didn't know about POIS at the time of publishing
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18 - POIS type: Responding to Zinc and Iron Supplementation
Reference member(s) : yousefrouiba
Relief method description: Daily supplementation with 240 mg of zinc gluconate at night, and 600 mg of ferrous fumarate during the day. Benefits came after 2 months of this supplementation regime.
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% POIS-free ( has been for 1 year, as of 2021/10)
Possible reason for effectiveness: correction of iron and zinc deficiency
POIS symptoms : Brain fog, Digestive problems (bloating), low concentration, low self-esteem, personality changes, depression for several days, acne, inability to gain weight, hair dandruff
POIS worsened by: Choline supplements, lactose and dairy products, Coffee, sleeping for more than 7 hours, eating (except if high protein food, like a piece of meat alone without anything else).
No relief with : Testosterone capsules for one month, Chamomille oil, Lavender oil, Rosmarin, Betahistine, Ginseng, Sulpiride, Licorice, Coconut oil, Glutamine powder, Aspartame, Gelatin, H pylori overgrowth treatment (amoxicilline clarithromycin, omeprazole and metronidazole for 14 days + Saccharomyces boulardii), Ampicillin for 28 days, Candida treatment ( fluconazole 150 mg ), Sulfur bacteria treatment (no thiol no sulfur diet, taking oregano powder )
Other comments and information: Iron supplementation duration depends on iron blood level achieved, so monitoring with blood tests is necessary. Be aware that too much iron can be toxic, so supervision by a health professional is advised. Zinc supplementation has to be monitored too, to avoid toxic levels - supervision by a health professional is also advised.
See more details on this method at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4006.msg42542#msg42542 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4006.msg42542#msg42542) and https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4006.msg42544#msg42544 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4006.msg42544#msg42544)
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19 - POIS type: Responding to non-ejaculatory orgasm (Dry orgasm, tantric orgasm)
Reference member(s) Physi, ZombieRehab,
Relief method description: Using contractions of the pelvic floor muscles and/or digital pressure on the baseor urethra to prevent ejaculation during orgasmic spasms. If pelvic floor muscles are used, previous training of these muscles is required. Orgasm can still be felt, but no ejaculation occurs. For a complete explanation on how to achieve a non-ejaculatory orgasm, see this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRflY59PXb0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRflY59PXb0)
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% relief if technique is totally successful at preventing ejaculation, but usually around 80% to 90% success rate, because technique is not easy and semen leaks can happen from time to time
Possible reason for effectiveness: POIS caused by ejaculation but not by orgasm ( note: like any method, does not work for every members...some members still have POIS even if they achieve an orgasm without ejaculation).
POIS symptoms ( mainly): : usual POIS symptoms ( Brain fog, fatigue, etc...) , no pattern detected
POIS worsened by: no particular information
No relief with : info to be added
Other comments and information: ZombieRehab thread: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3860.0 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3860.0) . Physi thread: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4322.0 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4322.0)
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20 - POIS type: Responding to Xolair (omalizumab)
Reference member(s) Poispilgram
Relief method description: Personalized dosage of 75mg of Xolair every 6 to 8 weeks with goal of maintaining a blood serum level of 25mg to 100mg.
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100% relief
Possible reason for effectiveness: POIS caused by auto-immune reaction following ejaculation ( Xolair is used to treat severe allergic asthma and MCAS. Also, patient was POIS-free when succeeding with a "dry orgasm" method - see type 19 above for details)
POIS symptoms ( mainly): : usual POIS symptoms ( Brain fog, fatigue, irritalbility, etc...) , no pattern detected
POIS worsened by: no particular information
No relief with : info to be added
Other comments and information: Case report in the scientific literature of a POIS patient treated with Xolair: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/imj.80_16230 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/imj.80_16230) . Poispilgrim thread: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4581.msg49245#msg49245 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4581.msg49245#msg49245)
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(General note: as information gathers, it may become possible to fuse some of those POIS types together as it may turn out that they are one and the same, but for now, they seems exclusive in their relief method, suggesting they have some psychophysiological specificity as well. )
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some other types to eventually add ( not enough information for now):
Responding to tadalafil: see member wolf post, at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2369.msg19814#msg19814 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2369.msg19814#msg19814) ). Some more info would be needed
Responding to vitamin D supplementation: many reports from members that vitamin D helps, but more information would be needed. Vitamin D does not seem to be enough as a stand-alone relief method. However, it may constitute a useful addition to POIS management, as it is good for the immune system balance ( 1000ui to 2000ui daily are the usual doses mentioned - for higher doses, seek for health professional supervision)
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Note about Desensitization: I didn't include a "POIS type responding to desensitization with sub-cutaneous injection of own semen". There are very few known successes with this method despite the 10 years of experimentation it had been used, and I never heard of more than 30% to 50% relief at best even after years of desensitization ( I usually include methods with providing at least 70% to 80% relief). Moreover, there are no known physician to us that is still using this method.
= = = =
- POIS types chart, version 1.0 ( 2016/08/07): Just a start up version, so don't expect too much. Your input is welcomed for adding to this chart ( adding reference members, adding types, adding any relevant information )
- POIS types chart version 1.01 ( 2016/08/11): update on Taurine Type and Niacin Type, and other minor changes
- version 1.02 ( 2016/08/19): update of Fenugreek Type
- version 1.03 ( 2016/09/11): update of different types according to information provided by members
- version 1.04 ( 2016/09/21): update of different types according to information provided by members
- version 1.05 ( 2016/10/18): update of different types according to information provided by members
- version 1.06 ( 2016/11/19): NSAID type added
- version 1.07 ( 2017/02/11): update of Gluten-free diet type
- version 1.08 ( 2017/06/21): update of oral corticosteroids type and other minor updates
- version 1.09 ( 2017/07/14): update of pre-pack type
- version 1.10 ( 2018/01/03): Cholinergic Deficit Type update
- version 1.11 ( 2018/02/15): renaming of POIS types; addition of POIS type responding to psychotherapy/sex therapy, and to CBD oil
- version 1.12 ( 2018/12/02): updates in section 7 ( gluten-free diets and other diets)
- version 1.13 ( 2020/05/26): section 14 added (POIS responding to Physalis )
- version 1.14 (2021/01/01) : Type 15 ( Milnacipran) and type 16 ( prednisone/dexamethasone) added
- version 1.15 (2021/01/02): Type 17 ( progestins ) added
- version 1.16 (2021/04/14): New reference member with Niacin+Matcha method added to Type 1 ( Niacin
- version 1.17 (2021/06/23): Propranolol type updated
- version 1.18 (2021/10/09): Type 18 (Zinc and Iron supplementation) added
- version 1.19 (2022/01/23): Upgrade of fenugreek type
- version 1.20 (2022/03/22): Upgrade of milnacipran type
- version 1.21 (2022/08/06): Upgrade of TRT type (note about Cialis use by Demografx)
- version 1.22 (2023/06/23): Upgrade of Fenugreek and Garlic section (Warrior method update )
- version 1.23 (2023/09/22): Upgrade of TRT section ( Demografx 2023 method update )
- version 1.24 (2024/06/28): Upgrade of antihistamine type (promethazine) and NSAID Type. Type 19 added (non-ejaculatory orgasm)
- version 1.25 (2024/06/30): Upgrade of psychotherapy/sexotherapy type (lw case added
- version 1.25 (2024/09/09): Type 20 (Xolair) added
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Thanks for compiling this! No doubt a large step forward to have this information in one place. Feel free to delete this msg if it muddys the thread.
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Hi everyone,
Quantum amazing work here. I am 100% sure people will find it easier to find their pois type and relief with your chart.
As I am mentioned in the chart, I want to add some informations that FloppyB and Outsider may want to comment:
POIS type name: Mytelase and lecithin type
Relief method description: 10mg mythelase + lecithin right after orgasm (within the first minute is the best). Then repeat once a day (during lunch because eating trigger pois symptoms).
Symptoms :
- psychological: concentration, vision problems and insomina (always), memory (3-4 days), social skills (4-5days), bad mood (3-4 days), stress (3)
- physical: red eyes (4-5days), intense fatigue (3-6days), easily fatigue at sport (2 days)
Possible reasons for effectiveness: the vagus nerve is involved for sure but Outsider can probably answer this better than me.
POIS worsen by: hot shower, porn
No relief with: saw palmetto, homeotherapy
Other comment: If you have chrnoicle concentration, vision problems and insomina mytelase might help. Fasting delay the symptoms.
Which everyone a good week,
POISse
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Thanks POISse for your added information ! ( Thanks to Limejuice too for his comment)
POISse, I will try to see if that fits with FB experience, and see if there is some pattern for your small group... but unfortunately, Outsider have been inactive here for some months now. Maybe FB could comment directly here if he sees some common point with your experience. In the meantime, I will try to search on forum posts to see what can be confimred from past posts.
I have already done so for the "hot shower" worsening, and it is interesting to note that both Outsider and FB have reported the same as you ! It is not 100% specific, as other POIS sufferers has the same problem, but all have not tried Mytelase and lecithin neither, so let's assume for now, there is a tendency that shows that those who are relieved by Mytelase seems to have their symptoms worsened by hot showers, especially on head and neck region ( as written by Outsider). This is not the case for all POISers, others have their symptoms worsened by cold showers instead ( ref: Mishlen), or no effect from neither hot or cold ( like myself). Is that the first pattern my chart would have help to find? Maybe! Unless some member who has relief with Mytelase share that he never had problems with hot showers.
This hot shower search have helped me to find a possible link between two groups. Another member, hurray, who has the hot shower problem, says he is relieved by fenugreek, which is a good source of choline.... Choline, lecithin, Mytelase, vagus nerve stimulation, all goes in the direction of increasing the cholinergic side of the nervous system, and for sure is linked to helping muscle functions and cognitive functions. This would maybe show that the fenugreek group and the Mytelase/lecithin group is the same type of POIS, where the main physiological effect is a cholinergic deficit... more confirmations by members would be needed, but this is possible. . I would for sure like to receive feedbacks from members who have relief with fenugreek, that would help to clarify if this could be seen as the same type.
As a counter-example, I have no problem with hot showers, and no cognitive symptoms at all. I am not part of this type for sure.
Thanks again POISse for your dynamic contribution !
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I would for sure like to receive feedbacks from members who have relief with fenugreek, that would help to clarify if this could be seen as the same type.
For fenugreek archived posts @ POISCenter & NSF, put these 2 (separate searches) in your Google search box:
• fenugreek pois site:http://poiscenter.com
• fenugreek pois site:http://thenakedscientists.com
•• Keep the above spacing intact
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Thanks for compiling this! No doubt a large step forward to have this information in one place. Feel free to delete this msg if it muddys the thread.
Muddy??? It M A K E S the thread! :)
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Amazing job Quantum!
POIS type name: Taurine Type
Reference member(s) b_jim
relief method description: 600mg taurine each day
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 90% (from 3 to 0/1 day if zero sugar)
possible reason for effectiveness: Gaba?Dopamine?
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog, muscle weakness, muscle twitching
POIS worsen by: sugar! (triple duration and severity)
No relief with : B3, garlic, fenugreek, olive oil, gluten free diet, anti-hista…
Other comments and information: type : skinny, general anxiety, premature ejaculation, 0 drugs, no smoke, bad alcohol resistance (only drink few red wine).
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Amazing job Quantum!
Agreed!
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Amazing job Quantum!
POIS type name: Taurine Type
Reference member(s) b_jim
relief method description: 600mg taurine each day
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 90% (from 3 to 0/1 day if zero sugar)
possible reason for effectiveness: Gaba?Dopamine?
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog, muscle weakness, muscle twitching
POIS worsen by: sugar! (triple duration and severity)
No relief with : B3, garlic, fenugreek, olive oil, gluten free diet, anti-hista…
Other comments and information: type : skinny, general anxiety, premature ejaculation, 0 drugs, no smoke, bad alcohol resistance (only drink few red wine).
Thanks for your kind words, b_jim !
Thanks also for the added data for your POIS type ! I will update my chart accordingly.
I hope that other members cited as reference for a specific type will do the same as you and provide more information on their particular type.
I hope that other members or even non-members reading the forum, that have success with taurine or any other of these type, will share their data so we can refine the chart.
For sure, it is hard to define any trend or pattern if there is only one member in a particular type, but we have to start somewhere,
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Here is my information:
POIS type name: Niacin type
Reference member(s) Limejuice
relief method description: Niacin taken on empty stomach, waiting for the flush to happen before ejaculation. Usually doses from 100mg to 300mg, but varies.
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 50%
possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog (difficulty thinking and slow response time), impaired memory, headache, physical fatigue (low energy level), runny nose, insomnia
POIS worsen by: hot showers, starches and simple carbs
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information:
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Thank you for your input, Limejuice ! I will add you as a reference member in the Niacin type and mix you information with what is already there. I will try to see if Daveman share some of these, like the hot shower problem, and the sugar effect, and try to see if it is a "group" effect, present in all those who are relieved by Niacin.
Interesting to note that the worsening by refined sugar is present in more than one type of POIS ( for now, at least in the Niacin type and Taurine type). It may be common to all types, some more input by members would be needed in order to clarify that.
Considering that Daveman has stiffness and pain in muscles and joints has a major symptom, I would be interested to know, Limejuice, if you have these as well ?
It may happen that the specific symptoms to a particular group may shrink down to a few ones. For now, I leave more information, and will try to make it more specific if possible.
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Considering that Daveman has stiffness and pain in muscles and joints has a major symptom, I would be interested to know, Limejuice, if you have these as well ?
It may happen that the specific symptoms to a particular group may shrink down to a few ones. For now, I leave more information, and will try to make it more specific if possible.
Yes, I do experience joint cracking and mild muscle stiffness. It isn't as severe as the other symptoms but it does occur (as a slight nucence). Thanks!
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Great topic!
Thank you Quantum
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for histamine type
my main symptoms; brain fog,fatigue,concentration/attention
occasional symptoms; flu like symptoms, burning sensation in lower back
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for histamine type
my main symptoms; brain fog,fatigue,concentration/attention
occasional symptoms; flu like symptoms, burning sensation in lower back
Thanks, CP2 for the data ! I have added this to the Histamine POIS type. It would be great to hear from other members of that same type.
Do you have tried anything that made your POIS worst ? Or any treatment you have tried and that had no effects ?
Eventually, with this chart, I would really love that there would be at least 3 members for all of the POIS types in the chart, so that they can talk together and find what is specific for their type of POIS. That may take a long time to get there, but, it is better than just sit, doing nothing but waiting.
Thanks to Spartak too for his positive comment !
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for histamine type
my main symptoms; brain fog,fatigue,concentration/attention
occasional symptoms; flu like symptoms, burning sensation in lower back
Thanks, CP2 for the data ! I have added this to the Histamine POIS type. It would be great to hear from other members of that same type.
Do you have tried anything that made your POIS worst ? Or any treatment you have tried and that had no effects ?
Eventually, with this chart, I would really love that there would be at least 3 members for all of the POIS types in the chart, so that they can talk together and find what is specific for their type of POIS. That may take a long time to get there, but, it is better than just sit, doing nothing but waiting.
Thanks to Spartak too for his positive comment !
When i was doing dessensitization i remember once my symptoms got worse when i went to a higher concentration.
i believe it gets worse but i am not sure, when i come down from caffeine high.
Also, i dont use antihistamines(claritin and zyrtec) (10mg or 5mg) every day like happy2 because it gives me memory problems. There were just to manytimes while using those drugs that i couldnt remember something while i was having a conversation. I am currently trying 2.5 mg daily.
I have not gotten a chance to properly test supplements because my orgasms have been to frequent. I just started really testing supplements, i should be able to update you soon.
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Thansk again CP2 for your active participation!
Your mention of caffeine si ringing a bell for me - I think many POISers made mention of caffeine, both as helping them or making them worst. I think it could become a good marker that helps sorting groups apart. Just like like hot showers/cold showers seems to also be a good marker, and also benefits/no benefits from niacin. By identifying more and more of those significant markers, we may find similarities and differences between groups.
As for me, I can say that I am totally intolerant to caffeine, both for stomach acidity, as well as for its amplification of my anxiety symptoms, and somehow, of my aggressive reactions, when in POIS. This is why, with time, I have found that green tea is better for me - less caffeine, and the L-Theanine that is also contains is calming, tempering the anxiety exacerbation of caffeine.
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If anybody is aware of a member that could be added as a reference member to any of the POIS types of the chart, let me know, along with links to the post(s) on the forum where this member have written about his relief by a particular method ( which define, in my chart, the belonging to a particular group, see initial post of this thread for details about this )
The more members we will have in any specific group, the easier it will be to find the subtle differences that are particular to this group. That's the first step in trying to see how many POIS types, in fact, there are, and what is the best way to relieve each of these types.
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POIS type name: Niacin type
Reference member(s) victor.kons
relief method description: 0.5 ml of Xanthinol Nictotinate injection and O after 10 mins or 150mg pure Niacin in tablets and O after the flush or Xantinol Nicotinate in tablets 450 mg and O after the flush.
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 100%
possible reason for effectiveness: data to be added
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog (difficulty thinking and slow response time), impaired memory, headache, physical fatigue (low energy level), insomnia
POIS worsen by: long sleeping time, active physical training
No relief with : data to be added
Other comments and information:
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Thanks Victor for all the information provided ! I will integrate to what is already in the niacin type section of my chart.
Any member that has success with a treatment is invited to do as Victor did, so I can add data to the chart.
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POIS Types Chart
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POIS type name: TRT type
Reference member(s) Demografx
relief method description Testosterone Replacement Therapy ( warning, needs medical supervision)
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 70 - 90%
possible reason for effectiveness: TRT possibly offsets severe drop in testosterone [depletion?] after ejaculation/at POIS onset.
POIS symptoms ( mainly): severe fatigue: emotional, physical, cognitive -- plus, all 10 fingertips dry up, feel like they're "burning", yet simultaneously "drained", and there persists a strange sensation/high anxiety about this weird short-term (4 days) dermatitis condition -- resulting in much inexplicable psychic pain/anguish.
POIS worsen by: hot showers ( to confirmed with other members of this POIS type)
No relief with : progesterone
Other comments and information: TRT can cause infertility, killing sperm; major family planning implications. Medical supervision - especially for young POISers - is critical.
Note: for pattern detection, more than one reference member would be needed. Perhaps "Green" 's case study would be good for TRT inclusion?
[/list]
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Quantum, I just now emailed/showed the above post to Dr Komisaruk, with a note that mine is just one example, and that you, Quantum, are in the process of developing this database.
Thanks again!!
demo
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POIS type name: Antihistaminics go well in my case
Reference member(s) Marcusq
relief method description: 1 loratadine (antihistaminic) after O, if it's necessary another loratadine pill 24 hours after. Mainly it allows me to sleep as POIS gives me a strong anxiety and insomnia, I get a relief in bad mood as well with loratadine. I have stopped using antinflammotories because I can not conclude they give me a real relief.
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 30-40% relief during the 48 hours peak duration of pois. Caffeine as well helps me a bit to combat brain fog. No other products I have tried have a proved relief effect
possible reason for effectiveness: I am quite convinced pois in my case is an autoinmune reaction to any substance.
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog , physical fatigue, insomnia, bad mood, isolation from other people, depression
POIS worsen by:
No relief with :
Other comments and information:
I should test other antihistaminics in order to find the best one which goes well on me, have anyone tried doxylamine? It's one of the most H1 powerful antihistaminics used to sleep mainly, pois gives a strong insomnia so there could be a relation, the thing is doxylamine is an antocholinergic as well and I'm not sure if that could worsen pois effects.
Thank you everybody to do your best in order to get a solution, c'mon guys we are each day closer to get a real solution,
Sorry for my english,
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POIS Types Chart
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POIS type name: TRT type
(...)
Other comments and information: TRT can cause infertility, killing sperm; major family planning implications. Medical supervision - especially for young POISers - is critical.
Note: for pattern detection, more than one reference member would be needed. Perhaps "Green" 's case study would be good for TRT inclusion?
[/list]
Hi Demo, could you remind me where I can find the info for this "Green" TRT case study ?
And, thanks for the info, I have updated my chart with it.
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Quantum, below is a reprint of Green's post (he also posted a fair amount at the Naked Scientists forum: POIS thread). For other comments in Green's thread, please see:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=17.msg17884#msg17884
Hi all, It's been a number of years since I've last posted on this forum, I've always lurked around and been an active reader.
I'm glad to report that I have had major success combating POIS and I can say to a large extent I am recovered from this malady.
For a number of years I've been self administrating testosterone in injectable form, having tried and tested a lot of the suggestions made on this forum and others, I've found nothing works better than administering testosterone.
Be warned if you were to try it without the aide of medical support and supervision it can be dangerous - [mod highlighting], I went through a massive change in personality and not for the better, and generally unstable and irritable.
I had a massive pathological workup and a huge amount of money spent on blood tests and seeing various doctors, in the end I got nothing but sheer frustration and the feeling of hopelessness, the only thing that stood out in my tests was my low free testosterone reading. I was referred to an Endocrinologist and although it was agreed that my testosterone levels fell below the reference range 212 ng/dl (250-1100 ng/dl) RR, even with pressure, perseverance and persistence on my part for a trail of testosterone from the Endocrin, he was not having it and told me to go on my way with a good luck.
A very long story short I've been injecting 83 mg per week ie 1/3 of an ampoule, considering the ester weight and injection site loss the absorption would be ~ 50mg, the same as what the average human body produces.
My total cure to POIS is
Testosterone 83mg per week
Fexafenodine on the day of orgasm
Paroxitine daily (20mg - 40mg)
Tramadol 4 caps (50mg)
Niacin 1000mg an hour prior to sex/O
On that combination I feel NO effects of POIS and I am able to function normally the next day, this is just my account of what has worked for me, having read the forums I know I had a VERY severe case of pois where literally I was bed bound for weeks on end and never had a sense of well being even out of POIS.
I hope this serves as some food for thought and discussion and my experience can help someone out there with this curse of an illness, I don't know where my life would have been if I didn't take the brave step and tried to resource the best I could and experiment. I know that this curse of an illness would have taken it's toll on every aspect of my life. I'm doing well in the sense I have a heightened sense of mental clarity and I am able to function normally within society, something I was not able to before.
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POIS type name: histamine
Reference member(s) happy2
Relief method description: 10mgs of Zyrtec every night at 6pm, and 50mgs of Benadryl within 20 seconds immediately FOLLOWING orgasm, after EACH orgasm (any time of day or night - same results).
Effect on severity and duration of POIS: complete 100% - No symptoms, other than Benadryl hangover the following day. Nothing after that the following days. Back to normal life as usual. 5-10 O's per week, since discovering "My Cure" since December 26th of 2015.
Possible reason for effectiveness: if the histamine reaction is stopped, the neurological symptoms do not show up.
POIS worsen by: Nothing now, POIS cured. BEFORE discovering the Zyrtec/Benadryl combo, I had been using Claritin 10mgs daily with the same amount of benadryl for previous 3 years. The cognitive symptoms persisted, just not nearly as intense as full-blown POIS which I had experienced Intensely since I was 22. Now I'm 35. Before the Claritin/Benadryl combo, 4 years ago, leading to the Zyrtec/Benadryl combo in December, 2015, I had full-blown POIS symptoms. Fatigue on days four and five, Craziness on days 1 through 4. Once on the Claritin/Benadryl combo in 2011, I found out if I did any kind of mental exertion, either through reading/studying in school, or physical exertion, I would get fatigue on days four and five. If no exertion, or only minor-light exertion, no fatigue, ever. Once I introduced the Zyrtec and dropped the Claritin out of my regimen, and kept the 50 mgs of Benadryl, No fatigue whatsoever, EVER, and POIS symptoms, gone completely.
No relief with :
Other comments and information: All 3 doctors said Benadryl won't "do anything to you", "will just dry you out", and "won't do anything to your liver", the other said nothing. In other words, you can take as much as you want. O's this year equals 117 already; still 2 1/2 months to go. All of last year equaled 30, and even less each of the last 10 years, trying to avoid the negative effects of the POIS. If I keep up this rate, I might eclipse 200 this year already.
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Many thanks happy2 for your data, it will add to my main chart.
It would be useful if you could mention some well known treatment you have tried that had no effects or negative effects. Did you tried niacin, or fenugreek, or some other talked about method? If you and the other members in the anti-histamine group are, let's say, all relieved by antihistamine, and all "not" relieved by niacin ( I make this up), this would tell something about your specific type of POIS.
Another member of the antihistamine type have mentioned that his POIS gets worst when coming down from a caffeine high. Did you ever have this effect ?
Thanks!
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Quantum,
I never tried niacin, at least not the flush type. I also never drank caffeine as I am a health nut and have been for 10 years. Before the treatment and my cure with the anti-histamines carbohydrates made symptoms much much worse. Cognitive symptoms included not being able to find the right words/ severe social phobia/anxiety, and problems communicating. Also day 2 was always the worst as I've seen with many others.
Many thanks happy2 for your data, it will add to my main chart.
It would be useful if you could mention some well known treatment you have tried that had no effects or negative effects. Did you tried niacin, or fenugreek, or some other talked about method? If you and the other members in the anti-histamine group are, let's say, all relieved by antihistamine, and all "not" relieved by niacin ( I make this up), this would tell something about your specific type of POIS.
Another member of the antihistamine type have mentioned that his POIS gets worst when coming down from a caffeine high. Did you ever have this effect ?
Thanks!
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Thanks for your answer, happy2.
I will add the mention about carbohydrates/sugars worsening effect in the antihistamine type section of the chart.
Interesting to note, others have already mentioned this worsening effect of refined sugars, like b_jim ( already noted in the Taurine type section of the chart).
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happy2, thanks for your contribution!
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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to add some input about the mytelase and lecithin type.
POIS worsen by : sports (increased insomnia, fatigue, brain-fog) and alimentation (wheat products, coffee...)
Other relief: milk (helps a lot with social skills, 5HTP for mood, magnesium for energy).
No reliefs with : claritin, zyrtec, niacin, fenugreek...
I'm really interested in others experience with mytelase and lecithin.
Cheers,
POISse
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Many thanks POISse for this valuable input ! I will update my chart accordingly.
I agree with you, it would be interesting to know if others having success with Mytelase and/or lecithin also have the same worsening triggers than you have, or also had no results with antihistaminics, niacin and fenugreek. So we would see if these are a "class effect", common to all members of the Mytelase/lecithin type.
Floppy Banana, if you agree to, could you compare your experience about these with POISse notes? Thanks in advance.
I could ask Outsider to do so too. but he does not not come very often on this forum ( who also has found relief with Mytelase). If you do read this, Outsider, please share some of your experience on what is worsening your POIS and what substance or method didn't bring any relief.
Obviously, I ask the same to any member who has relief with Mytelase and/or lecithin or other cholinergic treatment, in order to try and find patterns and useful data about the different types of POIS.
Any other member having success with any other source or relief is also invited to do so as well. Knowing more about worsening conditions, as well as efficient and inefficient sources of relief may prove useful in order to understand POIS in general, and also its different types.
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POIS type name: NSAID Type
Reference member(s) Dirkstar
relief method description: 400-800mg Ibuprofen 20 minutes before significant arousal (much earlier if not on an empty stomach)
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 80-90% on severity, unclear effect on duration
possible reason for effectiveness: Decreased synthesis of prostaglandins by prostate which bind to spinal neurons causing hypersensitivity and non-focal CNS stress
POIS symptoms ( mainly): Severe brain fog including short and long term amnesia, slurring of speech, hypersensitivity particularly to sound, thrumming of middle ear muscles, headache, nausea, head "stuffiiness", fatigue, light sleep, sleeplessness, vivid dreams, scalp pimples w/in one day of orgasm then disappearing, crawling sensations on scalp and face; onset noticed w/in 30 minutes of orgasm or limited ejaculation near orgasm (though to a lesser degree), gradual increases in severity over 3 days then gradually disappears over next 5-7 days
POIS worsen by: Effects are cumulative with each ejaculation, intensity of orgasms
No relief with : Antihistimines, Niacin (need to revisit), B-12, Vitamin C, multi-vitamins, Tylenol before orgasm, good diet, exercise, alcohol
Other comments and information: Tylenol helps with hypersensitivity and sleep if taken before bedtime; Dirkstar also has developed early onset Parkinson's Disease possibly secondary to POIS via excitotoxicity of domaninergic neurons; Dirkstar also had (self-diagnosed) hypoglycemia when younger and possibly lessened with fitness when older possibly contributing to excitotoxity aspect of PD; Coffee might decrease duration of symptoms (but may have further stressed CNS leading to PD); May be related to hypersexuality and/or lengthy periods of arousal (intense dopaminergic stress); Dirkstar also seems to be prone to inflammatory disorders such as tendonitis, bursitis, and sinusitis; Dirkstar also has non-pattern hair loss since 15 yrs old impyling a hormonal or auto-immune problem linked to puberty/sexual activiity; Dirkstar diagnosed with restless legs syndrome which seems to correlate with POIS symptoms
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Thanks for this valuable input, Dirkstar, I will incorporate it in my chart.
It will be yet another POIS type. but I suspect that before finding common threads between different types, there will be a first phase where many new types will be listed. But once we find some specific criteria, we may be able to joined these types in 3 or 4 groups.... but for now, it is better to gather as much valuable information as possible, even if this means having dozens of POIS "Types" and seems to make the issue more complicated than it should. But in the long run, gathering useful information from empirical successes in relief of symptoms is what will bring us some insights about the causes of POIS and the way to relieve it.
However, the many different ways to relieve POIS seems to be exclusive - a method bringing benefits to one will make the other worst or have no effect. So, to me, it is clear that even if all POIS sufferers share a common pattern of manifestation - a kind of systemic inflammatory response trigger by ejaculation or equivalent ( like prostate leaks) - the exact pattern through which this inflammatory response comes about is not necessarily identical in every case, because the immune system is very, very complex and as many, many branches. That would explain why we can't find one treatment that help every POISers. That would also explain why any individual POISer have difficulties even finding what works for himself, since from one POIS attack to the other, everything is not always identical, and one POISer may have more than one pattern contributing to the overall hypersensitivity reaction of the immune system.
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Thank you Quantum, I was looking forward to your response. I completely agree, especially noting that the suggested NSAID Type does not exclude an auto-immune component and indeed I have had auto-immune symptoms. Best regards
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Hi Dirkstar,
My POIS Types Chart is now updated and includes the NSAID type ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 , which is the second post at the top of this thread )
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My POIS has a histamine component amongst others...I cannot eat very high histamine foods without bad symptoms. I must generally avoid inflammatory foods like wheat and dairy, nuts and lectins (in grains and seeds etc). Doing a ketogenic diet really helped with the brain fog part of my POIS symptoms.
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Thanks caveeater. Was your histamine sensitivity diagnosed by a doctor? What kind of doctor?
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If anybody is aware of a member that could be added as a reference member to any of the POIS types of the chart, let me know, along with links to the post(s) on the forum where this member have written about his relief by a particular method ( which define, in my chart, the belonging to a particular group, see initial post of this thread for details about this )
The more members we will have in any specific group, the easier it will be to find the subtle differences that are particular to this group. That's the first step in trying to see how many POIS types, in fact, there are, and what is the best way to relieve each of these types.
I'm in Quantum.
I have tried it about 3 times with 70%+ success and assume it will continue to be effective. I take: B3, B1, B6, B12, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Fenugreek, Alfalfa.
No idea what category you want to put that in. :)
Who the hell knows what is working and what isn't. Could be the B's, could be the Fenugreek, could be a combination...
Is it worth adding an extra marker for: how you deal with NE's so we know what people are doing and what the success is?
This was an amazing chart - am sure we can't thank you enough.
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If anybody is aware of a member that could be added as a reference member to any of the POIS types of the chart, let me know, along with links to the post(s) on the forum where this member have written about his relief by a particular method ( which define, in my chart, the belonging to a particular group, see initial post of this thread for details about this )
The more members we will have in any specific group, the easier it will be to find the subtle differences that are particular to this group. That's the first step in trying to see how many POIS types, in fact, there are, and what is the best way to relieve each of these types.
I'm in Quantum.
I have tried it about 3 times with 70%+ success and assume it will continue to be effective. I take: B3, B1, B6, B12, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Fenugreek, Alfalfa.
No idea what category you want to put that in. :)
Who the hell knows what is working and what isn't. Could be the B's, could be the Fenugreek, could be a combination...
Is it worth adding an extra marker for: how you deal with NE's so we know what people are doing and what the success is?
This was an amazing chart - am sure we can't thank you enough.
Hi Michael, and thanks for your positive comments, and for your input as a reference member.
I feel I would include you in the "pre-pack" type, since I think that all those in this section have their own custom pre-pack, but the method is similar, and composition of those pre-packs have some common themes, like antioxidants, mast-cell stabilizers, and so on.
If you could detail the dosage of each element in your pre-pack, that would be more useful info still.
If you have any hint about what makes your symptoms worse, that's useful info to add too.
You can also mentioned of your POIS is or is not worsened by 1- hot showers, and 2- caffeine , and 3 - physical exercise.
In the long run, all those details may help us in understanding POIS pathophysiology.
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Hi Quantum,
Always great to read your replies. So incredibly helpful.
Dosages taken are: B3 (500 mg, niacinamide 'Natures Own' brand), B1 (250 mg), B6 (200 mg), B12 (1000 mcg), alfalfa, Fenugreek (1000 mg), Vitamin C (1000) & an E (500 IU, Blackmores) - all about 1-1.5 hours before release - zinc was taken afterwards (40 mg) and usually 400 mg of Magnesium with the zinc.
Will delay adding info on hot showers, caffeine etc until I test it consciously to provide a more accurate analysis. Caffeine doesn't seem to make my POIS noticeably worse, may even improve it due to the caffeine boost. Hot showers not sure at all at this point, can't be too much difference if it isn't noticeable.
One thing - the last 2 times I had POIS because of an NE or missing taking the prepack, taking B3 afterwards made it really bad. Increased anxiety and symptoms lasted an extra 1-2 days! So no more B3 afterwards for me. I took it once after a NE and it made it worse, and also took it with the other B's (1,6,12) and it also made it much worse. So, no B's for me during POIS.
Please let me know if you need any other info. Am in a very conscious testing phase so happy to take any ideas on board.
Thanks Quantum!
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P.S. tried my pre-pack last night adding magnesium (tablet is 325 mg magnesium also contains 60 mg of Vitamin B6, manganese 6 mg - cenovis brand)
And fish oil (180 epa, 120 dha- thompsons brand)
Basically no symptoms at all today. Took the prepack last night 1.3 hours prior to release.
Very pleased indeed. If only I had any clue what ingredients actually make the difference. :) Happy to take them all until then!
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Thanks for the useful input, Michael, I will add your info to my chart !
Yes, this method imply taking a lot of supplements at once. I don't think it is one in particualr doing all the job, I think it is a synergistic effect ( at least in my own case), so for more than two years, have been taking all of them each time, and that's fine with me, and it's still effective.
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Hey Michael,
So I tried the supplements I ordered a month ago that I told you about, ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GXD6G92?psc=1 ).
I took 500mg of that pack on empty stomach and waited an hour but nothing happened, I still had pois without a noticeable change.
I'm not ruling out the Pack though; I ordered Zinc, Alfafa, Fenugreek and Vitamin E, and I'll see if all collectively might work.
What do you think ? should I wait more than an hour before O ? should I increase the dose to 1000mg ?
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Great idea Nas. I'd time it at exactly 1 hour and 15 minutes after taking the pre-pack for your first attempt. And not eat at least 2-3 hours prior to taking them.
So, after you add the new ones into your mix, what will you be taking in total? I would definitely just copy my pre-pack exactly. Definitely include the fish oil and magnesium! I'm excited to hear how your results go.
I'd stick to 500 mg maximum. I use a flush-free Niacin, so no flush at all. But then again, i'm not even sure if the Niacin is what is working for me - it could be the B1, 6 & 12! Or some of the other weird ones like Fenugreek or Alfalfa.
Try them all collectively and report back to us!
Which country are you in? Isn't here faster places to buy instead of Amazon?
Good luck there.
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Nas, I just looked at your B complex and it says they are 'time released'. That (to me) is exactly what you DON'T want. :)
The B's are effective only because they kick in immediately to give the brain the boost it needs during 'o' to stop the brain from going out of balance at that crucial moment.
What does Quantum think?
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I live in Iraq in the south, and ya know. It's not the best place when it comes to finding stuff online.
Didn't tell Quantum about it, hopefully he sees this.
I'm glad you told me about the timely release thing. It's too bad that the upcoming pack of supplements is already ordered, I could've ordered them all together.
I'll try and see if I can find some B supplements that aren't time released. For me here in Iraq getting stuff shipped all the way takes a while and can be a bit expensive so it'll be sure a pain in the ass but I will try.
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I live in Iraq in the south, and ya know. It's not the best place when it comes to finding stuff online.
Didn't tell Quantum about it, hopefully he sees this.
I'm glad you told me about the timely release thing. It's too bad that the upcoming pack of supplements is already ordered, I could've ordered them all together.
I'll try and see if I can find some B supplements that aren't time released. For me here in Iraq getting stuff shipped all the way takes a while and can be a bit expensive so it'll be sure a pain in the ass but I will try.
Hi Nas,
In order to partly overcome the time-released tablet problem, try to cut your tablets in 2 or 3 pieces before taking them - this will usually help to disrupt the time release matrix, and help for a faster absorption ( crushing them in powder would help further still and make them like standard, fast acting tablets, but that makes things more complicated).
These tablets are concentrated enough, at 100mg or 100mcg, to get all the b-complex boost your body can take - as you may have noticed, your urine will be bright yellow after taking it, the over will be eliminated in the urine, because b-complex vitamins are very hydrophilic, . Also, taking too much vitamin B6 can be neurotoxic, so be careful and stay at one tablet per day ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Side_effects ).
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Hello, Quantum.
Ok, so duly noted. But as you saw with Michael's pack he takes about 1000mg of B12 and 500mg of Niacin, so for lowering the dose so that I take less B6 I would also take less B12 and B3 Which might be a bit of an issue. I will try your advice though.
Also you said "daily" but I'm not following a daily dosage of this supplement rather I'm taking it on empty stomach before O probably once a week, so that might be a good justification for taking 500mg ? what do you think ?
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I really think that taking supplements just before release, and not daily, is far more effective. Espacially for B-complex, I have found that their effect is often fading after a few weeks when taken daily.
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Agreed (before 'o' only). We don't want to build up an immunity to them. Also, as far as I remember reading we need to be careful with some of these B vitamins as they affect the brain and too higher dosage taken daily can be very harmful.
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Nas, amazed you can't find a local source for Vitamins in Iraq. How about shopping in a store in Dubai? They will ship to Iraq relatively quickly. Did you check these guys? https://www.biovea.com/ae/mobile/index.aspx
Amazon may be cheaper of course.
Good luck.
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We do have different supplements sold at local pharamcies but we just don't have dedicated stores for supplemnts, nor do we have a wide range of choices when it comes to local pharmacies.
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Okay, I see. Oh well, shouldn't be too long.
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If I suffer mainly of brain fog, depression, social anxiety and strained eyes what type of POIS would have I?
I found the most similar to be the POIS caused by mytelase and lechitin.
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If I suffer mainly of brain fog, depression, social anxiety and strained eyes what type of POIS would have I?
I found the most similar to be the POIS caused by mytelase and lechitin.
Hi Unvers,
I am sure you meant 'similar to POIS that is "relieved" by mytelase and lecithin '( rather than "caused by").
Be aware that my 'POIS types' classification is not a definitive chart, but a work in progress, where I try to gather in one place as much useful information as possible on the different methods that bring relief for POIS, along with information about what could predict success with one method or the other ( this would be more useful than having to try each and every one method in order to find which one could be of help).
As you may know, by forum rules, we do not give direct advise to others on what they should take. You can discuss that with a health professional. That being said, lecithin is a rather safe product to try, is not very expensive, so you can ask your pharmacist or physician if it is OK for you to try it.
As you may know, some members have good results, on the long run, by eating eggs daily, and I suspect it is because they are a good source of choline/lecithin.
Mytelase is usually on prescription only, and from members testimony, is more complicated to work with. That clearly has to be done under the supervision of a physician.
In theory, lecithin should be good, at the least, for cognitive problems such as memory problems, concentration problems, and the like. If you choose to give it a try, please report your results on the forum after some time.
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If I suffer mainly of brain fog, depression, social anxiety and strained eyes what type of POIS would have I?
I found the most similar to be the POIS caused by mytelase and lechitin.
Hi Unvers,
I am sure you meant 'similar to POIS that is "relieved" by mytelase and lecithin '( rather than "caused by").
Be aware that my 'POIS types' classification is not a definitive chart, but a work in progress, where I try to gather in one place as much useful information as possible on the different methods that bring relief for POIS, along with information about what could predict success with one method or the other ( this would be more useful than having to try each and every one method in order to find which one could be of help).
As you may know, by forum rules, we do not give direct advise to others on what they should take. You can discuss that with a health professional. That being said, lecithin is a rather safe product to try, is not very expensive, so you can ask your pharmacist or physician if it is OK for you to try it.
As you may know, some members have good results, on the long run, by eating eggs daily, and I suspect it is because they are a good source of choline/lecithin.
Mytelase is usually on prescription only, and from members testimony, is more complicated to work with. That clearly has to be done under the supervision of a physician.
In theory, lecithin should be good, at the least, for cognitive problems such as memory problems, concentration problems, and the like. If you choose to give it a try, please report your results on the forum after some time.
Thanks so much, I will try with eggs for now.
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Thanks so much, I will try with eggs for now.
Hi Unvers, about eggs and POIS, Bulbo is the reference member. See his thread on eggs at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2192.msg21487#msg21487 . Note that in his case, POIS have slowly got shorter and shorter in duration, over a couple of years, so you will have to be patient in your test.
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Quantum thank you so much for your work, I ate two eggs after orgasm and felt better, never been so good after an orgasm in my life, unfortunately it was short on duration and symptoms are slowly coming back, mainly brain fog, less depression, now I am using nicotine and caffeine as usual to manage POIS, maybe I will eat another egg later.
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I am glad you have found some relief, Unvers. You are on to something, just keep experimenting, safely, to progressively improve the duration and level of your relief.
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The symptoms I have, as far as one can tell, seems to originate in the genital/prostate/rectum area and is initiated during orgasm. I have also had incidents where bowel movement seems to trigger symptoms temporarily.
In rare cases an orgasm after an attack can relieve symptoms almost completely.
In this case it could be possible, if lucky, to go from physically sick
and severely depressed (feeling mentally ill) to being fine within an hour. (*)
There are similarities between POIS and chronic prostatitis, but it seems that the mental / emotional aspects is more central to POIS more so than prostatitis, and that problems with urinating is related to the latter but not the former.
The mental and emotional symptoms (depression/inability to relax/change in personality, a feeling of being mentally ill),
are the most debilitating.
This and the exhaustion makes it difficult to be the man I could be.
There are also some strange symptoms such as
having "attacks" of urges to breath faster / more heavily,
an inability to feel full (having hunger which cannot be relieved)
lower back pain, itching, blurred vision, joint pain, stuffy nose
pain when sitting down for long periods of time
etc.
I wrote a post earlier about my symptoms but decided to delete it because I am not sure whether this is POIS or something else.
Because of (*), in my case, one could imagine there being something anatomically / structurally faulty which starts the inflammation and then it spreads as a more systematic response.
I also have celiac disease.
Thanks for the PM's I received to my previous post.
Edit: Sorry for a lousy post - I will repost when feeling better,
was thinking specifically with regards to how one relates to others and how
others relates to you, society etc. etc. when having this disease.
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I have celiac as well but am managing it very good now. And pois is no longer a problem. I had to eliminate a lot of foods for POIS to be relieved. Every one of my symptoms can relate back to a specific food I ate. O no longer causes symptoms. I'm wondering maybe how your pois would react if you limited your diet some more (dairy, grains, processed sugar... Etc.)
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HI, RJ,
What you describe definitively sounds like POIS.
Other members have stated that a second orgasm once POIS symptoms have started can stop POIS dead in its tracks. It is not the case for every members, but it has been reported before.
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I also noticed that after an orgasm if I have another in a few hours I tend to enjoy more the second orgasm but after a couple of hours symptoms may be stronger, in the past I managed to have many orgasms in the same day and symptoms didn't worsened much, POIS is a very strange thing, ruined my life for many years and made me think that the level of anxiety, depression and fatigue I experienced was my normal mood and this in turn made me more depressed and I used to masturbate to relieve stress worsening the situation even more, all this made me suicidal for years, POIS is Hell on Earth.
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POIS is Hell on Earth.
VERY well said.
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Hi, I watched a topic where an user described very carefully how he beated his POIS but now can't find it, it was a topic full of medical notions, anyone could please link it?
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http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21553#msg21553
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2456.msg21546#msg21546
It is prolly one of those two
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http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21553#msg21553
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2456.msg21546#msg21546
It is prolly one of those two
Very interesting, thank you!
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I have celiac as well but am managing it very good now. And pois is no longer a problem. I had to eliminate a lot of foods for POIS to be relieved. Every one of my symptoms can relate back to a specific food I ate. O no longer causes symptoms. I'm wondering maybe how your pois would react if you limited your diet some more (dairy, grains, processed sugar... Etc.)
Thanks all for the replies. I will try to be more strict with the gluten free diet.
The symptoms of celiac often feel like pois to me, perhaps because they are both inflammatory in origin.
Both decrease with the use of NSAIDs / antihistamines /anti-inflammatory Quercitin, Olive Leaf Extract, Curcumin, Capsicum etc.
There are days when I feel so well that I remember how it was to be a kid.
That may be only a few days per year, but still.
Everything is more alive, just being is pleasant
a different feeling of time and being in the world
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I wanted to add few things about my pois type. It seems that (I'm talking for myself only here) O is not the only trigger of symptoms.
First there is a huge correlation between pois symptoms and food. Indeed, O can trigger practically no symptoms on an empty stomach and certain food can trigger symtpoms without any O. This brings me close to the diet type. If I avoid a very long list of food and take mytelase I can be almost pois free.
Second, exercise can also trigger very strong symptoms (brain fog, double vision, fatigue, mood change, depression, anxiety) without any O. I guess this is ME/CFS so it may not be applicable to everyone.
Finally other things like smoking can trigger other symptoms.
According to the POIS definition, the symptoms go away after 4 to 7 days but in my case Mytelase improve my condition even if taken weeks after a pois attack. This make me wonder if I really have pois...
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Seeing this chart for the first time. Very cool, thanks for putting it together. Basically I believe there are many subtypes like you outlined. I also believe there are some crossovers between the types that might link them. Not only symptoms but the things that are providing relief or the treatments actually can effect the same bodily issues. The two most things I see crossing over are Treatments that affect Blood Pressure for example Beta Blockers, Niacin, NSAIDs, etc.. Niacin and Beta Blockers lower blood Pressure while NSAID boost it a little. That might seem like opposites but I believed Blood Pressure is being raised too high for an undetermined reason during arrousal and then after O it snaps back too hard and may actually became lower after O for a short period. If you Lower BP before Arousal then you never have that major spike in BP. If you do the opposite and you take a BP raising drug or supplement then even if it spike it won't snap back so hard. Mine for instance is perfect before I start at 117/78, during arrousal it's 160/103, after O it's 104/66. But if you take a lowering treatment it won't go to 160 it'll go to 130 but it may go lower than 104 after O, it's all about timing the duration. If you take a BP raising treatment before then you start out at 135 and go to maybe 160 but after O you go back to 130 not 104. It's that hard snap that I think sets off a chain reaction or cascade. The body interrupters that as a signal and releases different chemicals. The chemical release may be different which accounts for symptom variation.
There are other correlations. But ultimately I don't think it is difficault to figure out POIS. All that is needed is a lab that testes before, during arrousal and after O and compares the results. Both Bloodwork and Ultrasound comparisons or possibly Functional MRIs too.
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Hi Disaster,
Thanks for your comments. It is one of the long term goal of this chart to find common patterns to different types, and I hope that some day we could come out with 5 or 6 sub-types maximum, with an idea of what method of symptoms control is efficient for any of these sub-types. But it's a long way to go before reaching this goal.
About blood tests, you may be interested in this: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2541.msg21986#msg21986
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I recently wrote to one of the foremost medical doctors in the world about POIS research. Will update when I hear something back.
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I have made a change to the way POIS types are named in the chart. They now are named like :
POIS type: Responding to treatment with (name of treatment or method).
It is more accurate to say, for example, that there is a POIS Type responding to niacin, than saying a "Niacin POIS Type". Just like in saying that a throat infection is responding to a treatment with penicillin. this is more in tune with medical way of saying things. There are even bacteria strains that are named according to their resistance to treatment by a specific antibiotics, like MRSA ( methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus). So, I am not naming POIS types like "POIS resistant to niacin", which could be possible too, but my initial intent was to name POIS types according to treatment/relief method success.
I have also added the following note at the top of the chart:
"Pois types in this chart are named and classified according to the treatment or method they are positively responding to. If symptoms of two different members are relieved by the same method or treatment, they are considered, in this chart, to have the same POIS type."
I have also added a POIS type responding to psychotherapy/sex therapy.
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You fogot one group: desensitization treatment. I have 70% less symptoms and only 1 day of POIS. And I am not the only one.
And also cbd oil. Zero POIS with highly pure (20%) cbd oil. Unfortunatly because of an overdose I developped an allergy for cbd oil.
One big difference in POIS types is guys with and without NE/PE.
Another difference is guys who don’t get POIS if they have sexual activity but don’t ejaculate.
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Ni Vandemolen,
Thanks for the input.
About CBD oil, can you give me some more information, so I can put more detail in the section, like, the dosage you used, the time and method ( every day? only on POIS days?....), the Symptoms ti treated, the symptoms it didn't relieved, your main POIS symptoms, etc... like in other sections. I will surely add a note about your allergy development, and will also underline that CBD oil is not legal in every country.
About desensitization, I don't think I will include it in the chart, because Dr Waldinger himself, who have created this protocol, wrote in his POIS review article of August 2016 that he abandoned this treatment. Moreover, he now speaks of POIS as a auto-immune disease rather than an allergy, and auto-immune disease are usually not treated with desens ( ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19538#msg19538 for more details) ). In an interview, he also apologized has being responsible for the misleading concept of "allergy to semen". So, I think it is not relevant that new members consider trying a treatment method that has no more support in the medical community, that they may never be able to get medical support for, and that is no more studied. Other methods in the chart are accessible, but desens no longer is. Dr Waldinger is currently doing new research for a treatment in line with his new way of understanding POIS.
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Ni Vandemolen,
Thanks for the input.
About CBD oil, can you give me some more information, so I can put more detail in the section, like, the dosage you used, the time and method ( every day? only on POIS days?....), the Symptoms ti treated, the symptoms it didn't relieved, your main POIS symptoms, etc... like in other sections. I will surely add a note about your allergy development, and will also underline that CBD oil is not legal in every country.
About desensitization, I don't think I will include it in the chart, because Dr Waldinger himself, who have created this protocol, wrote in his POIS review article of August 2016 that he abandoned this treatment. Moreover, he now speaks of POIS as a auto-immune disease rather than an allergy, and auto-immune disease are usually not treated with desens ( ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19538#msg19538 for more details) ). In an interview, he also apologized has being responsible for the misleading concept of "allergy to semen". So, I think it is not relevant that new members consider trying a treatment method that has no more support in the medical community, that they may never be able to get medical support for, and that is no more studied. Other methods in the chart are accessible, but desens no longer is. Dr Waldinger is currently doing new research for a treatment in line with his new way of understanding POIS.
About the desens. I agree with you. I didn’t think that this topic is a list for POIS-patients. I often get pm’s from guys who want to do desens. For more than 1 year I always advice them not to start with desens. Ok my POIS is decreased with 70% and from 4 days to 1 day. But desens is a project for 5 years. I am hopefull that before that time there will be better treatments. In The Netherlands there is a new POIS research that concentrates on the gut (also auto immune theory). It’s a cure, not a treatment. I hope that I can get this cure in 2018 and that it will help me and others. Unfortunately I can’t tell you more about it.
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CBD oil. It has to be purified 20% cbd oil. There is a guy who has been succesfully treated by over the counter 3,5% cbd oil, but it didn’t help me. For the 20% cbd oil. Start with 1 drop before going to sleep. The next morning 1 drop and at night 1 drop. The next morning 2 drops and the at night 2 drops. The cbd oil will work after 2 weeks. I didn’t had any POIS-symptom. But when you stop with the oil the POIS comes back. The 20% oil was at that time very rare. So after 2 months I was out of CBD oil. A few months later I get new cbd oil. But when I started I used 4 drops in just a few hours. I got allergic and got sick. After 6 months (last week) I started with 1 drop. It went well. Two days later again 1 drop. But I got sick again. So my allergy for cbd oil isn’t still over.
Symptoms: flu like symptoms, feeling cold, extreme fatigue, exhausted, palpitations, problems finding words, incoherent speech, dysarthria, concentration difficulties, quickly irritated, can not stand noice, photophobia, depressed mood, headache, itching eyes, painful eye, congestion nose, watery, runny nose, sneezing, white tongue, dirty taste in mouth, dry mouth, sore throat, muscle tenstion in back and neck, muscle weakness, pain muscles, stiffness muscles.
No NE, no PE.
Symptoms for 1 day, used to be 4 days.
Symptoms worse when I don’t ecajulate after sexual activity.
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About desensitization, I don't think I will include it in the chart, because Dr Waldinger himself, who have created this protocol, wrote in his POIS review article of August 2016 that he abandoned this treatment.
So if Waldinger abandoned this treatment does that mean it didn't help patients who underwent this treatment?
Moreover, he now speaks of POIS as a auto-immune disease rather than an allergy, and auto-immune disease are usually not treated with desens ( ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19538#msg19538 for more details) ).
That's right, but who says desensitization is automatically coupled to an allergy in POIS? There are at least 1000 different proteins in sperm, al kinds of immune parameters like IFN-g and interleukins. If Subcutaneous injections improve POIS symptoms, that does not implicate an one-to-one relation to an allergy cause.
In an interview, he also apologized has being responsible for the misleading concept of "allergy to semen". So, I think it is not relevant that new members consider trying a treatment method that has no more support in the medical community, that they may never be able to get medical support for, and that is no more studied.
So where is the medical community support for niacin, anti-histamine and taurine for example? You include these in your chart but never had any medical community support or being part of a study, quite contradictory with the above argument you are using. Again, if Waldinger drops his concept of allergy does that imply desenz will not improve POIS symptoms?
Other methods in the chart are accessible, but desens no longer is. Dr Waldinger is currently doing new research for a treatment in line with his new way of understanding POIS.
I don't think this should be an argument to scrap desenz from the chart. Desenz has helped people with their symptoms so I don't see the reason why you wouldn't include it. You could add for example a notification that this method is barely accessible. There are also other reasons why he dropped this treatment, because it is time consuming and thus expensive.
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CBD oil. It has to be purified 20% cbd oil. There is a guy who has been succesfully treated by over the counter 3,5% cbd oil, but it didn’t help me. For the 20% cbd oil. Start with 1 drop before going to sleep. The next morning 1 drop and at night 1 drop. The next morning 2 drops and the at night 2 drops. The cbd oil will work after 2 weeks. I didn’t had any POIS-symptom. But when you stop with the oil the POIS comes back. The 20% oil was at that time very rare. So after 2 months I was out of CBD oil. A few months later I get new cbd oil. But when I started I used 4 drops in just a few hours. I got allergic and got sick. After 6 months (last week) I started with 1 drop. It went well. Two days later again 1 drop. But I got sick again. So my allergy for cbd oil isn’t still over.
Symptoms: flu like symptoms, feeling cold, extreme fatigue, exhausted, palpitations, problems finding words, incoherent speech, dysarthria, concentration difficulties, quickly irritated, can not stand noice, photophobia, depressed mood, headache, itching eyes, painful eye, congestion nose, watery, runny nose, sneezing, white tongue, dirty taste in mouth, dry mouth, sore throat, muscle tenstion in back and neck, muscle weakness, pain muscles, stiffness muscles.
No NE, no PE.
Symptoms for 1 day, used to be 4 days.
Symptoms worse when I don’t ecajulate after sexual activity.
Thanks for the details, Vandemolen. I have now created the new section in the chart about CBD oil.
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Desenz has helped people with their symptoms so I don't see the reason why you wouldn't include it. You could add for example a notification that this method is barely accessible. There are also other reasons why he dropped this treatment, because it is time consuming and thus expensive.
Hi Muon,
As you may know, I am not supportive at all of the desensitization tretment with sub-cutanous injections of own semen. I will not go into all the details here, because this is not the purpose of this thread. But, after 10 years, and very few reports of real success with this method, which has many disadvantages to say the least, I think we have to go beyond it and give it the less exposure possible.
Why, in my opinion? Because, contrary to what you seem to express in your post, desensitization is totally associated to allergy treatment, in medical science ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergen_immunotherapy ), and I think it is time that POIS gets out of this "allergy to semen" tag. POIS is so rarely talked about anywhere, that when it will be again, I surely hope this misleading tag will not be mentioned anymore. And there is so little information leaking to doctors and researchers about POIS, that it is totally unwanted to nurture the strict allergy theory, which will only report real development in POIS research.
You may have your reasons to try and convince me to include desens in my chart, but scientific rigor is not the one that could do it for me. For example, the POIS Chinese study has demonstrated that the Prick tests with own semen are non-specific, since a proportion of normal subjects in the study have tested positive in this prick test. From there, the "objective" basis of the desens protocol in POIS is already, in my opinion, been weakened, if not voided. But as mentioned, I won't go further in this discussion.
However, I am not totally closed to the opinion you have expressed, and have included a note at the end of the chart, about desensitization. That is as far as I will go.
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That's ok, I don't want to make a big deal of this. I'm just a bit stunned about not adding this because in science you collect and document all data even if it doesn't fit the model of the scientist. It makes you wonder whether patients who underwent this treatment have been taken serious at all.
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Very very good work. Thank you very much Quantum for creating this wealth and very nice thread. My english is not best so pardon. My POIS symptom are:
1. Skin related #1 - huge, jaundicey skin and eye, swelling is big you can see it.
2. Muscular weakness - trouble doing exercise.
3. Mental related - feeling low, brain fog.
Quantum I notice not many here have skin issue like me but most have 2 and 3. Do that mean I have something extra plus POIS?
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Hi Swell, i am traying to figure conection vith some cases who are suscesifuly recover fom pois an trying compare symptoms.
In the nakedsciencists forum Herman(gbolduev) is cured by balacing trace minerals.
He is talking that pois is coused by minerals imbalances and coper tocsicity.
And i conetceed that to jaundice, and this can be conected to ceruloplasmin an this i conected to this - https://labtestsonline.org/tests/ceruloplasmin loking those symptomes i hawe all of tham aspeshualy swalowing and walking difecultis but i hawe no visible jaundice.
And i conectet this to one ayurvedic doctor who cured Nathan from nackedscientists
and he say that nathan hawe (Also wanted to add to your post, when Nathan was in POIS his Ceruplasmin was low. After recovering from POIS, his Ceruplasmin level reached normal.) https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=39528
Maybe is here solution for some of as.
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Very very good work. Thank you very much Quantum for creating this wealth and very nice thread. My english is not best so pardon. My POIS symptom are:
1. Skin related #1 - huge, jaundicey skin and eye, swelling is big you can see it.
2. Muscular weakness - trouble doing exercise.
3. Mental related - feeling low, brain fog.
Quantum I notice not many here have skin issue like me but most have 2 and 3. Do that mean I have something extra plus POIS?
Hi swell!
Thanks for your words of appreciation ! :)
I have noted the exact same thing you did notice. You may be interested in my post form some years ago about clusters of symptoms in POIS: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2027.msg15927#msg15927 . In the section at the end, called "Some patterns I have noticed", you will see that the cluster of allergy-like symptoms ( which includes skin reactions) is more rare that the others, and never occurs alone, meaning by this that POIS sufferrers who gets skin symptoms, for example, always get others symptoms as well, like muscular symtpoms, cognitive symptoms, etc... I never sw a POIS sufferers with allergy-like symptoms only.
Those clusters helped me to understand my own sub-type of POIS, because I have no cognitive symptoms, but a lot of emotional symptoms, so I thought that each individual POIS set of symptoms, for each specific POIS sufferer, seems to be "build" with symptoms from one or more of these clusters, and from one POIS episode to the others, the symptom kit seems to be pretty much identical, so that if you never had any allergy-like symptoms, for example, you are not likely to develop some in the future. My hypothesis is that each cluster of symptoms is related to a certain set of physiological event, to certain weakness in our genes, immune system, or else, and we may have one clusters, 2 of them, 3, or even 4, but it depends on which problems we have or not in our body and brain.
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Hi Swell, i am traying to figure conection vith some cases who are suscesifuly recover fom pois an trying compare symptoms.
In the nakedsciencists forum Herman(gbolduev) is cured by balacing trace minerals.
He is talking that pois is coused by minerals imbalances and coper tocsicity.
And i conetceed that to jaundice, and this can be conected to ceruloplasmin an this i conected to this - https://labtestsonline.org/tests/ceruloplasmin loking those symptomes i hawe all of tham aspeshualy swalowing and walking difecultis but i hawe no visible jaundice.
And i conectet this to one ayurvedic doctor who cured Nathan from nackedscientists
and he say that nathan hawe (Also wanted to add to your post, when Nathan was in POIS his Ceruplasmin was low. After recovering from POIS, his Ceruplasmin level reached normal.) https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=39528
Maybe is here solution for some of as.
Hi HOD,
Comparing successful relief method, and corresponding symptoms, is one of the goal of this POIS Type Chart, so I am glad you are doing you own research along these lines.
Let me know of your results with your current experimentations.
(p.s.: I am leaving today for about 10 days, so, will not be posting again till mid-March when I return )
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Hi,
I don't know exactly to which type of the ones described in this chart I belong to. I have not tested all the relief methods yet. But some of them yes. For example, celecoxib and etoricoxib (NSAID's). They relief me. But it seems that less and less over time. Some antihistamins had also improved me some symptoms, for example insomnia. And also gluten free diet. So it seems my case is a mixture of 7, 8 and 11. As far as I know for the moment.
I've been wanting to try niacin for a long time. but because one of my symptoms is inflammation of the blood vessels. I have a varicocele that I never had before POIS. A varicocele is a testicular varix. In fact, when my symptoms generally improve or decrease, the varicocele also decreases, even disappears. and vice versa, when the varicocele gets worse it becomes bigger and more annoying / painful. due to this condition of venous inflammation. I have not gotten to try niacin yet. because I know it's a vasodilator. and maybe it would make me worse in that aspect (the varicocele and in general). But I do not know. I've been waiting for a time when the varicocele is very diminished or barely present. but unfortunately, since I rode on a sled, my POIS has taken a very strange direction. I'm not sure if I'm the only case like that ... but I'm in a really difficult situation due to that change of course of my POIS at the end of February.
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Hi all, today I purchased CBD oil (physical store) in the hopes that it might help with my symptoms.
The same product is listed here: https://selectcbd.com/collections/frontpage/products/lemon-ginger-cbd-drops-1000mg
Vandermelon recommended 20% pure CBD oil, but the retailer didn't know what I meant by that, and had only the above product to offer. Am I right that this is 100%? If so, what would be the appropriate dosing?
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Hi all, today I purchased CBD oil (physical store) in the hopes that it might help with my symptoms.
The same product is listed here: https://selectcbd.com/collections/frontpage/products/lemon-ginger-cbd-drops-1000mg
Vandermelon recommended 20% pure CBD oil, but the retailer didn't know what I meant by that, and had only the above product to offer. Am I right that this is 100%? If so, what would be the appropriate dosing?
No it’s not 100% cbd oil. That is not possible. Even in the greatest labs they can’t make it 100%. And yours contains lemon, ginger and coconut oil. I would buy an oil with only cbd oil. Of course they use olive oil or something else with it. But if you already bought this one I would try it. Start with 3 drops. If you are allright after 1 week then go to 5 drops. Wait 2 weeks in total before you have a sexual activity.
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Hi,
For all newcomers that may not have stumbled on it yet, I suggest you take a look at my POIS Types Chart at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 ( at the beginning of this thread)
You can find there methods that have brought significant relief of POIS symptoms to other members, on the long term ( at least over 2 months), so that it shows it is not linked to placebo effect.
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I'm missing Animus' surgical procedure on this list.
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I'm missing Animus' surgical procedure on this list.
Good point, Muon.
For the five first years I had been here, Animus was inactive on the forum, and it was not possible to verify if he was still POIS-free, and what exact surgery he had. Now that he made a come back a few months ago, and that we had fresh information, it could be possible that I create a "Type of POIS responsive to Surgery". I will look into that in the coming weeks, when I will have more time. This will need to be very precise in the information given, with some clear warning that it is not clear what part of his extensive surgery was the one that got rid of POIS. For example, removing the testes was done part because he had a painful lump on one, but not clear if related with cessation of his POIS or not.
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Ni Vandemolen,
Thanks for the input.
About CBD oil, can you give me some more information, so I can put more detail in the section, like, the dosage you used, the time and method ( every day? only on POIS days?....), the Symptoms ti treated, the symptoms it didn't relieved, your main POIS symptoms, etc... like in other sections. I will surely add a note about your allergy development, and will also underline that CBD oil is not legal in every country.
About desensitization, I don't think I will include it in the chart, because Dr Waldinger himself, who have created this protocol, wrote in his POIS review article of August 2016 that he abandoned this treatment. Moreover, he now speaks of POIS as a auto-immune disease rather than an allergy, and auto-immune disease are usually not treated with desens ( ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19538#msg19538 for more details) ). In an interview, he also apologized has being responsible for the misleading concept of "allergy to semen". So, I think it is not relevant that new members consider trying a treatment method that has no more support in the medical community, that they may never be able to get medical support for, and that is no more studied. Other methods in the chart are accessible, but desens no longer is. Dr Waldinger is currently doing new research for a treatment in line with his new way of understanding POIS.
About the desens. I agree with you. I didn’t think that this topic is a list for POIS-patients. I often get pm’s from guys who want to do desens. For more than 1 year I always advice them not to start with desens. Ok my POIS is decreased with 70% and from 4 days to 1 day. But desens is a project for 5 years. I am hopefull that before that time there will be better treatments. In The Netherlands there is a new POIS research that concentrates on the gut (also auto immune theory). It’s a cure, not a treatment. I hope that I can get this cure in 2018 and that it will help me and others. Unfortunately I can’t tell you more about it.
Hi man, any news from the netherlands gut research?
All my best
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Hey Michael,
So I tried the supplements I ordered a month ago that I told you about, ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GXD6G92?psc=1 ).
I took 500mg of that pack on empty stomach and waited an hour but nothing happened, I still had pois without a noticeable change.
I'm not ruling out the Pack though; I ordered Zinc, Alfafa, Fenugreek and Vitamin E, and I'll see if all collectively might work.
What do you think ? should I wait more than an hour before O ? should I increase the dose to 1000mg ?
Any success Nas?
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P.S. tried my pre-pack last night adding magnesium (tablet is 325 mg magnesium also contains 60 mg of Vitamin B6, manganese 6 mg - cenovis brand)
And fish oil (180 epa, 120 dha- thompsons brand)
Basically no symptoms at all today. Took the prepack last night 1.3 hours prior to release.
Very pleased indeed. If only I had any clue what ingredients actually make the difference. :) Happy to take them all until then!
Hi Michael, any updates on your pre-pack? Do you still use all pf those ingredients, including Fish oil?
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Hi man, any news from the netherlands gut research?
All my best
I think it is a dead end. It was a combined research between a Chinese team and a Dutch doctor. Now the Chinese stopped with co-operation.
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Awww no ???
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Hi Vendemolen, just to confirm: the cbd oil must be 20% pure, how much is that in mg?
Dosage is: 1 drop the first night; the following day 1drop in the morning, 1 at night; next days 2 morning, 2 night. What an expensive thing then, right? Does it solve your POIS completely? And does cbd oil have any secondary effects?
Is it still working for you?
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You fogot one group: desensitization treatment. I have 70% less symptoms and only 1 day of POIS. And I am not the only one.
And also cbd oil. Zero POIS with highly pure (20%) cbd oil. Unfortunatly because of an overdose I developped an allergy for cbd oil.
One big difference in POIS types is guys with and without NE/PE.
Another difference is guys who don’t get POIS if they have sexual activity but don’t ejaculate.
Can someone explain what is NE and PE, please? I understand that PE= POIS post-ejaculation?
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You fogot one group: desensitization treatment. I have 70% less symptoms and only 1 day of POIS. And I am not the only one.
And also cbd oil. Zero POIS with highly pure (20%) cbd oil. Unfortunatly because of an overdose I developped an allergy for cbd oil.
One big difference in POIS types is guys with and without NE/PE.
Another difference is guys who don’t get POIS if they have sexual activity but don’t ejaculate.
Can someone explain what is NE and PE, please? I understand that PE= POIS post-ejaculation?
NE = Nocturnal Emission and PE = Premature Ejaculation
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Dear friends,I also suffer from very severe "pois" related symptoms (they last 5 days) but i'm sure this condition does not exist per itself, but is created when exceeding with masturbation. Exagerate in anything in the long term will almost always bring a pathology.Human body is designed to cum only a few times a year(0-10), not continuously as most do(f.e 1000 times per year).Some people take a few minutes to recover this lost energy, others, like us, several days but it is worth knowing yourself perfectly and acting accordingly by reducing or completely stopping masturbation. Orgasm drains an huge amount of vital energy and the key for stay well in this experience we call "life" is equilibrium.
Then i suggest you to stop wasting time to investigate a syndrome that doesn't exist to mask it with worthless methods such as supplements,drugs and so on..after an orgasm the body needs to rebuild itself on its own,and it knows how to do it;but it requires a long time because you have abused it over so many years
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Hi ste!
Yes, the body will repair after som days after a POIS, but it will happen again and again and you cannot repair forever. Your body might not last as along as someone who dont have POIS. For me MB is not a problem since I dont do it, but I cannot stop nocturnal emission from happening and those are as worse. My view of the supplements is to restore the body to its initial strength so NE will not cause POIS at all. Of cource natural supplementation will also strengthen your body in a million of other ways.
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Norethisterone could be added:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028282/
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Here is a quick link to the POIS Types Chart itself, which is at the beginning of this thread:
POIS TYPES CHART is found at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448)
This chart is also a great place to find what methods have proven to be effective for other members in relieving their POIS symptoms.
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Hi everyone,
I have just added two new entries in my Chart of POIS Types: Type 15 ( Milnacipran) and type 16 ( prednisone/dexamethasone), from members inputs in 2020. There are now 16 referenced methods of POIS symptoms relief that has been shown effective for at least over 3 months, for at least one member !
This list will still expand, and is a good source of information for those who have not found anything yet to relieve their POIS symptoms. I also hope it will help us understand the multiple faces of POIS.I hope you will find something to help you in this chart. See the complete chart at the top of this thread.
Direct link : Chart of Pois Types and Possible Relief Methods (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448)
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what do you think about solutions from like reddit, i can look through their post and compile some.
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what do you think about solutions from like reddit, i can look through their post and compile some.
If you find solutions anywhere then please place the links in the comment section of the thread below. It is not as detailed as Quantum's thread but the aim is to give you a quick overview. Quantum can cherry pick stuff from that thread as well and incorporate into his own thread based on 'types'.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3551.msg37338#msg37338
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what do you think about solutions from like reddit, i can look through their post and compile some.
Hi CP2, and Muon,
Do not hesitate to share here solutions form reddit, facebook groups, or elsewhere. As a matter of fact, you can see that in 16 - POIS type: Responding to oral corticosteroids ( prednisone or dexamethasone), I have included a reference member from the POIS reddit page, aquantiV , because he had made a very complete post, enough to meet my criteria for the POIS Types Chart.
Again, for inclusion in the chart, I look for solutions that bring 75% or more relief of POIS Symptoms, a method that is described in details ( dosage, timing, and any relevant information necessary to "duplicate" it ), and that this solution have been effective for over 3 months or more, so that it is clear that it is not a placebo effect neither just a temporary relief that will fade for an unknown reason. I also prefer not to include extreme or controversial solutions, as I want the chart to share rather easily accessible, and safe, methods.
(Muon, I am not sure that I have read all the threads you are linking to in your list. If I have missed some methods in your large list that meet those criteria, just let me know ! Sadly, what is often missing is a long term follow up by the member who shares his success after a few weeks or so, and does not come back after some months to confirm that his solution is still effective )
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It's a dumping ground Quantum. It's not based on criteria in terms of a certain amount of relief. Some threads need follow ups if relief holds up and/or are place holders for the time being, relief is highly variable. I cannot keep track of these threads to ask if relief holds up so some are there as a reminder. I think I've emailed at least a dozen of POISers over the years if their method holds up but most don't respond. Temporary relief doesn't mean it's placebo. It's pretty common in neurosomatic disorders that people develop tolerance, I still take a note.
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It's a dumping ground Quantum. It's not based on criteria in terms of a certain amount of relief. Some threads need follow ups if relief holds up and/or are place holders for the time being, relief is highly variable. I cannot keep track of these threads to ask if relief holds up so some are there as a reminder. I think I've emailed at least a dozen of POISers over the years if their method holds up but most don't respond. Temporary relief doesn't mean it's placebo. It's pretty common in neurosomatic disorders that people develop tolerance, I still take a note.
Sure, Muon, no problem. I sometime put a question in a thread to get a follow up, and rarely get one. So, do not worry, and do not invest time in this. Just collecting those case who are already clear and complete is fine.
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Norethisterone could be added:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028282/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3028282/)
Sorry Muon, I have missed this great suggestion you made last summer... I was busy with the pandemic. I have just added it as type 17 in the chart. It is very valuable, since it is a published medical article, so physicians will feel more secure about this source of information.
As I have noted in the chart, it sure looks like a POIS case, even if the author refer to it as a benign coital headache case, adding that headache is just one of the symptoms in his syndrome. I think the author was not aware of a rare syndrome called POIS when he published in 2010.
See the result of this addition at Chart of Pois Types and Possible Relief Methods (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448)
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Yes nanna1 pointed this out to me via PM.
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I read in pois related articles that some patients have been treated with SSRIs but I haven seen them in the topic,has anyone ever got relief with a SSRI?
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I read in pois related articles that some patients have been treated with SSRIs but I haven seen them in the topic,has anyone ever got relief with a SSRI?
Many doctors have tried it on POIS patients, but I have never seen a testimony here that a SSRI have been effective to relieve POIS symptoms. The only related account I read on the forum is the success of one member with Prozac totally preventing his rather frequent nocturnal emissions. But this is not what can be call a treatment for POIS, only a method to prevent NE.
If you find a written account of success in relieving POIS symptoms with a SSRI, let me know.
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I read in pois related articles that some patients have been treated with SSRIs but I haven seen them in the topic,has anyone ever got relief with a SSRI?
I have been taking SSRI for over a year now. It's exactly as Quantem mentioned, a method to avoid frequent NE's. It did not relief my POIS symptoms whatsoever. However It helps me avoid NE's for more than two weeks which is super useful in a poiser lifestyle.
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I read in pois related articles that some patients have been treated with SSRIs but I haven seen them in the topic,has anyone ever got relief with a SSRI?
Many doctors have tried it on POIS patients, but I have never seen a testimony here that a SSRI have been effective to relieve POIS symptoms. The only related account I read on the forum is the success of one member with Prozac totally preventing his rather frequent nocturnal emissions. But this is not what can be call a treatment for POIS, only a method to prevent NE.
If you find a written account of success in relieving POIS symptoms with a SSRI, let me know.
I found this guy on the forum who got relief by SSRIs,but his pois was psychosomatic:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2841.msg26009#msg26009
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I read in pois related articles that some patients have been treated with SSRIs but I haven seen them in the topic,has anyone ever got relief with a SSRI?
Many doctors have tried it on POIS patients, but I have never seen a testimony here that a SSRI have been effective to relieve POIS symptoms. The only related account I read on the forum is the success of one member with Prozac totally preventing his rather frequent nocturnal emissions. But this is not what can be call a treatment for POIS, only a method to prevent NE.
If you find a written account of success in relieving POIS symptoms with a SSRI, let me know.
I found this guy on the forum who got relief by SSRIs,but his pois was psychosomatic:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2841.msg26009#msg26009 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2841.msg26009#msg26009)
Interesting, Kasra, but in this case, his latest follow-up is two weeks after initiating his therapy. Also, I do not see details on his POIS symptoms or history, which would make for better information. Anyway, for making it in the chart, it takes a follow-up showing that the method or therapy is still efficient after 3 months or so. Many therapies or methods are efficient for a while, in the beginning, and then effects fade away after some weeks. It may be because of some unknown failure or saturation of the method, or because of the placebo effect, or both. If the specific treatment or method still works after 3 months, it is good proof that there is long-term effectiveness.
All methods in the chart have shown more than 3 months of effectiveness. this does not guarantee success for any other member, but this guarantees that it is sound and verified information, with a probability to help other members.
P.S. shortcut to the POIS Types Chart and their possible relief methods: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448
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https://www.mycandidacleanse.com/could-pois-post-orgasmic-illness-syndrome-be-candida/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ISnnag8UOGw
https://www.steadyhealth.com/topics/diarrhea-after-masturbation
Fluconazole worked for me.
But when you do O and again candida occurs and then Fluconazole 400mg need to be taken.
But Fluconazole had high GI side effects.
So ,
Iam taking Fluconazole +probiotics
Fluconazole = AF 400
probiotics = vsl#3
But both are very costly.
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I got this stuff from this morning:
Vitamin E 63mg
Vitamin B5 19.5mg
Magnesium 100mg
Zinc 16mg
Selenium 80mcg
Creatine anhydrous 1300mg
Acetyl-L-carnitine taurinate 150mg
L-Aspartic Acid 150mg
L-carnosine 50mg
L-asparagine 25mg
Lycodose 4.8mg
Vitamin A 1600mcg
Vitamin C 240mg
Folic acid 400mcg
Vitamin B1 3.6mg
Vitamin B2 4.2mg
Vitamin B6 4.2mg
Vitamin B12 6mcg
Vitamin D 20mcg
Vitamin B3 65mg
Vitamin B8 125mcg
Vitamin K 60mcg
Iron 7.5mg
Magnesium 240mg
Copper 1mg
Chromium 80mcg
Iodine 200mcg
Calcium 400mg
Phosphorus 210mg
Molybdenum 100mcg
Manganese 4mg
Levodopa 52.5mg
Let's add cocoa, some Monster (which then further raises some B vitamins as well as having caffeine, taurine and other stuff), nicotine and a cappuccino this morning.
Obviously I didn't take it all together but in the period from before the first orgasm to after the second.
After the first one I felt better than when I usually have an orgasm due to the strong chemical support, I dared to try a second and now even if the cognitive part is not so bad I feel irritability, a bit of mental fog and a feeling of being under attack as infectious, I have a strange feeling in my head, like a stinging sensation that doesn't make me as lucid as before orgasms.
Probably the chemical mixture was helpful but not too much because I did not remember such a strong attack for some time, it must also be said that here it is now morning while lately I usually manage to have orgasms in the evening in order to dispose of in sleep while now I still have to go to work, it will be a long day.
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Shortcut to Quantum’s POIS Types Chart and their possible relief methods:
Bookmark it!
https://tinyurl.com/2p8dtx6v
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Found an interesting post that tried to find common themes in "complete/mostly cured" posts:
https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/xksbus/compilation_and_review_of_anecdotal/
WARNING: Don't blindly take stuff, especially things like Antibiotics can make life worse than before.
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WARNING: Don't blindly take stuff, especially things like Antibiotics can make life worse than before.
Thanks, Berlin!
[bolded/color emphasis mine]
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Other explanation for positive effects of eggs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunoglobulin_Y
"Immunoglobulin Y (abbreviated as IgY) is a type of immunoglobulin which is the major antibody in bird, reptile, and lungfish blood. It is also found in high concentrations in chicken egg yolk."
IgY: A promising antibody for use in immunodiagnostic and in immunotherapy (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016524271000005X)
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/list-of-me-cfs-recovery-and-improvement-stories.80502/
Consuming IgY Immunoglobulins From Chicken Eggs
"ME/CFS patient (Maj-Britt) a Swedish women cured her Chlamydia pneumoniae-associated ME/CFS with a simple home treatment consisting of orally consuming IgY antibodies from a chicken egg yolk. She injected the chicken with her blood, so the chicken started making antibodies against the infections in her blood. Those chicken antibodies are naturally produced in large quantities in the eggs the chicken lays."
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Hi everyone,
I am new to the forum, but I have been reading up for a while (and tried several potential solutions). I am almost 40 years old and only recently discovered that there was a name for my condition, POIS. I don't think that I have it as severe as some of you here, but I have always had the feeling that something was wrong. I experienced an almost continuous state of brain fog and found it difficult to concentrate and memorize important information. I have done every test there is, including MRI's & memory tests in the hospital. I never once realized it could be orgasm related until a couple of months ago when I read up about the (potential) positive effects of not having an orgasm. I decided to out for a week and instead of the benefits noticed the very negative effects as soon as I had an orgasm again (not only the brain fog, but also becoming over stimulated very easily and very short tempered towards my loved ones).
Anyway, enough for the introduction let's get to the reason why I decided to create an account. two weeks ago I've found this topic on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/17l4z5k/potential_pois_treatment_for_symptoms_too_much/?rdt=37968 (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/17l4z5k/potential_pois_treatment_for_symptoms_too_much/?rdt=37968)) where the TS links POIS to a AcetylCholine/Choline Dominance. As a potential remedy he combined Forskolin (a weight loss supplement) with Zinc and had great results with the reducing effects of POIS ("Within 5-10 minutes it's like the lights came on in my brain and my brain fog was gone!").
Based on his review I decided to give it a go and ordered 1000mg of Forskolin and 30mg of Zinc supplements to try it for myself and I am very happy that I did. I have tried it approx. 6 times now where I took both supplements directly or some time after an orgasm (or multiple ones) and I feel so much better than I did before. My brainfog is completely gone and I feel much more relaxed than I used to (not as short tempered as I normally would in the days after an orgasm). In the meantime another user (lanonimoose) replied in the same topic who tried it and experienced much milder symptoms that lasted much shorter than he normally had. That makes three positive experiences, which is why I wanted to share it here on this forum as well (I couldn't find anything on Forskolin here). Perhaps this can be a solution for others as well.
Please note that I am not a doctor, just a guy searching for a cure. I did experience one side-effect, which is that sometimes I experience a short period of nausea which might also be caused by the fact that I took it on an empty stomach. Nothing too bad tho and it quickly faded, so it definitely is worth it.
I hope this info is helpfull to some of you. If you have any questions, then let me know.
Take care!
PS, I also wanted to share my experience on Reddit, but apparently your account has to be 15 days old before you can post in the POIS section there ???
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Hi everyone,
I am new to the forum, but I have been reading up for a while (and tried several potential solutions). I am almost 40 years old and only recently discovered that there was a name for my condition, POIS. I don't think that I have it as severe as some of you here, but I have always had the feeling that something was wrong. I experienced an almost continuous state of brain fog and found it difficult to concentrate and memorize important information. I have done every test there is, including MRI's & memory tests in the hospital. I never once realized it could be orgasm related until a couple of months ago when I read up about the (potential) positive effects of not having an orgasm. I decided to out for a week and instead of the benefits noticed the very negative effects as soon as I had an orgasm again (not only the brain fog, but also becoming over stimulated very easily and very short tempered towards my loved ones).
Anyway, enough for the introduction let's get to the reason why I decided to create an account. two weeks ago I've found this topic on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/17l4z5k/potential_pois_treatment_for_symptoms_too_much/?rdt=37968 (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/17l4z5k/potential_pois_treatment_for_symptoms_too_much/?rdt=37968)) where the TS links POIS to a AcetylCholine/Choline Dominance. As a potential remedy he combined Forskolin (a weight loss supplement) with Zinc and had great results with the reducing effects of POIS ("Within 5-10 minutes it's like the lights came on in my brain and my brain fog was gone!").
Based on his review I decided to give it a go and ordered 1000mg of Forskolin and 30mg of Zinc supplements to try it for myself and I am very happy that I did. I have tried it approx. 6 times now where I took both supplements directly or some time after an orgasm (or multiple ones) and I feel so much better than I did before. My brainfog is completely gone and I feel much more relaxed than I used to (not as short tempered as I normally would in the days after an orgasm). In the meantime another user (lanonimoose) replied in the same topic who tried it and experienced much milder symptoms that lasted much shorter than he normally had. That makes three positive experiences, which is why I wanted to share it here on this forum as well (I couldn't find anything on Forskolin here). Perhaps this can be a solution for others as well.
Please note that I am not a doctor, just a guy searching for a cure. I did experience one side-effect, which is that sometimes I experience a short period of nausea which might also be caused by the fact that I took it on an empty stomach. Nothing too bad tho and it quickly faded, so it definitely is worth it.
I hope this info is helpfull to some of you. If you have any questions, then let me know.
Take care!
PS, I also wanted to share my experience on Reddit, but apparently your account has to be 15 days old before you can post in the POIS section there ???
Hi Harrie, and welcome to poiscenter :)
Thanks for taking the time to share your positive experience with forskolin and zinc.
There are some preliminary scientific data showing that forskolin may increase testosterone level ( see https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/forskolin-increase-testosterone/ (https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/forskolin-increase-testosterone/) ) . Zinc is well known to be positive for the prostate.
This method of control of POIS symptoms could be in the same family as TRT ( Testosterone Replacement Therapy), but with probably fewer potential side effects, if forskolin does not have too many side effects, and does not have the cardiovascular side effects of testosterone itself, as well as its effect on fertility. Since forskolin is not very well known up to now, it is hard to say.
If your method is still consistently effective 3 months from now, let me know - I would be happy to add it to my "POIS Types chart and their possible control methods", found at the beginning of this thread :)
What were your other symptoms, apart from brain fog? How long did your POIS attacks usually last, with no inc and forskolin?
And, about your control method, do you take Forskolin and zinc every day, or only after orgasm? Did you ever tried taking it 20 to 60 minutes before orgasm, to see if it would be more effective still?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/17l4z5k/potential_pois_treatment_for_symptoms_too_much/
Forskolin plus zinc (long term?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forskolin#Mechanism_of_action
Forskolin activates the enzyme adenylyl cyclase and increases intracellular levels of cAMP
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Hi everyone,
I am new to the forum, but I have been reading up for a while (and tried several potential solutions). I am almost 40 years old and only recently discovered that there was a name for my condition, POIS. I don't think that I have it as severe as some of you here, but I have always had the feeling that something was wrong. I experienced an almost continuous state of brain fog and found it difficult to concentrate and memorize important information. I have done every test there is, including MRI's & memory tests in the hospital. I never once realized it could be orgasm related until a couple of months ago when I read up about the (potential) positive effects of not having an orgasm. I decided to out for a week and instead of the benefits noticed the very negative effects as soon as I had an orgasm again (not only the brain fog, but also becoming over stimulated very easily and very short tempered towards my loved ones).
Anyway, enough for the introduction let's get to the reason why I decided to create an account. two weeks ago I've found this topic on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/17l4z5k/potential_pois_treatment_for_symptoms_too_much/?rdt=37968 (https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/17l4z5k/potential_pois_treatment_for_symptoms_too_much/?rdt=37968)) where the TS links POIS to a AcetylCholine/Choline Dominance. As a potential remedy he combined Forskolin (a weight loss supplement) with Zinc and had great results with the reducing effects of POIS ("Within 5-10 minutes it's like the lights came on in my brain and my brain fog was gone!").
Based on his review I decided to give it a go and ordered 1000mg of Forskolin and 30mg of Zinc supplements to try it for myself and I am very happy that I did. I have tried it approx. 6 times now where I took both supplements directly or some time after an orgasm (or multiple ones) and I feel so much better than I did before. My brainfog is completely gone and I feel much more relaxed than I used to (not as short tempered as I normally would in the days after an orgasm). In the meantime another user (lanonimoose) replied in the same topic who tried it and experienced much milder symptoms that lasted much shorter than he normally had. That makes three positive experiences, which is why I wanted to share it here on this forum as well (I couldn't find anything on Forskolin here). Perhaps this can be a solution for others as well.
Please note that I am not a doctor, just a guy searching for a cure. I did experience one side-effect, which is that sometimes I experience a short period of nausea which might also be caused by the fact that I took it on an empty stomach. Nothing too bad tho and it quickly faded, so it definitely is worth it.
I hope this info is helpfull to some of you. If you have any questions, then let me know.
Take care!
PS, I also wanted to share my experience on Reddit, but apparently your account has to be 15 days old before you can post in the POIS section there ???
Hi Harrie, and welcome to poiscenter :)
Thanks for taking the time to share your positive experience with forskolin and zinc.
There are some preliminary scientific data showing that forskolin may increase testosterone level ( see https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/forskolin-increase-testosterone/ (https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/forskolin-increase-testosterone/) ) . Zinc is well known to be positive for the prostate.
This method of control of POIS symptoms could be in the same family as TRT ( Testosterone Replacement Therapy), but with probably fewer potential side effects, if forskolin does not have too many side effects, and does not have the cardiovascular side effects of testosterone itself, as well as its effect on fertility. Since forskolin is not very well known up to now, it is hard to say.
If your method is still consistently effective 3 months from now, let me know - I would be happy to add it to my "POIS Types chart and their possible control methods", found at the beginning of this thread :)
What were your other symptoms, apart from brain fog? How long did your POIS attacks usually last, with no inc and forskolin?
And, about your control method, do you take Forskolin and zinc every day, or only after orgasm? Did you ever tried taking it 20 to 60 minutes before orgasm, to see if it would be more effective still?
Welcome to POISCenter, Harrie.
As a lifetime testosterone fan, I appreciate this discussion, Harrie & Quantum.
Thank you!
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Hi Harrie, and welcome to poiscenter :)
Thanks for taking the time to share your positive experience with forskolin and zinc.
There are some preliminary scientific data showing that forskolin may increase testosterone level ( see https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/forskolin-increase-testosterone/ (https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/forskolin-increase-testosterone/) ) . Zinc is well known to be positive for the prostate.
This method of control of POIS symptoms could be in the same family as TRT ( Testosterone Replacement Therapy), but with probably fewer potential side effects, if forskolin does not have too many side effects, and does not have the cardiovascular side effects of testosterone itself, as well as its effect on fertility. Since forskolin is not very well known up to now, it is hard to say.
If your method is still consistently effective 3 months from now, let me know - I would be happy to add it to my "POIS Types chart and their possible control methods", found at the beginning of this thread :)
What were your other symptoms, apart from brain fog? How long did your POIS attacks usually last, with no inc and forskolin?
And, about your control method, do you take Forskolin and zinc every day, or only after orgasm? Did you ever tried taking it 20 to 60 minutes before orgasm, to see if it would be more effective still?
Thanks for your reply. Although I have had these symptoms for over two decades, I never thought to connect them to having orgasms. As a result I am almost embarrased to say that I had them regularly (almost daily) during this period and I can't remember having periods of not having orgasms for longer than three, maybe four days.. This might explain why I experienced my symptoms lighter than some of the members here, but also in a more continuous, constant state. Its only after I withheld myself from having orgasms a couple of months ago, that I experienced the severe negative benefits right after having one again.
My most frequent symptoms are brainfog combined with headaches, memory problems and concentration issues (difficult to focus). In addition I also feel very tired afterwards (I notice this now, although I also tend to sleep too little) and I have a chronic nose cold (not sure if this is related). I have been seeing doctors about this since 2004 and I've done MRI's, memory tests, have been treated for conditions like a slow Thyroid, a B12 defficiency, etc, and tried a boat load of supplements, but non of it helped.
Since I started to link my symptoms to orgasms, I did try to limit them as much as possible which comes down to basically once a week. I now experience the symptoms for approx 3 days afterwards, of which the first day is by far the most severe. One thing that I additionally notice now is that I become easily overstimulated (I always had this too some degree, I can't wear regular jeans for instance) and get extremely short tempered and angry when this happens (which isn't usefull in a household with three small kids).
I found this forum several months ago and tried some of the proposed solutions in this topic, e.g vitamin D / vitamin B3 / Macca Tea that didn't help. I also read in one of the topics about anti-allergy pills and because I already used Centrizine, I started to take 2 10mg pills 10 minutes before an orgasm. This brought some relief for the physical symptoms, but did not help with being over stimulated and hot tempered. Now that I have tried the Forskolin + Zinc combination, I feel much more relaxed and (as far as I can tell) completely symptom free.
I use Forskolin + Zin only right after or approx. an hour after having an orgasm (I prefer to take it when I go to bed, because I might get a bit nauseous). I haven't tried taking it before (I will try that next time), so I can't judge on that. I also didn't do follow up dosseses, although I have to admit that I had a 5 day period with daily orgasms, so I took it 5 days in a row. I could try to use it daily, but I now had my last orgasm two days ago, so I took it then and now still feel fine. In the beginning I combined Forskolin + Zinc with the centrizine, but soon started to take only the Forskolin + Zinc with similar results.
I am definitly not a health expert, so I don't know why it works as it does, but I did feel so positive about it that I wanted to share. I hope this helps to provide some additional explanation and hopefully some others (for instance who are still searching for a solution) decide to try it and experience positive effects as well.
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Thanks for your answers, Harrie.
Zinc, in particular on an empty stomach, often causes nausea. Try to eat a little before taking it, to help with your stomach.
It is quite common that the first day ( or 1st 2 days when the POIS attack is longer) are the worst. Mental and emotional symtpoms are quite usual too.
Again, let me know if this treatment stays effective for you in the long run !
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i think there is a mistake
in pois type 4, you said
In this POIS type, main physiological effect would be a cholinergic deficit, corrected by cholinergic agents like Mytelase, or sources of choline like lecithin, choline itself, eggs, fenugreek, or else
but few line later you said
No relief with : claritin, zyrtec, niacin, fenugreek
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i think there is a mistake
in pois type 4, you said
In this POIS type, main physiological effect would be a cholinergic deficit, corrected by cholinergic agents like Mytelase, or sources of choline like lecithin, choline itself, eggs, fenugreek, or else
but few line later you said
No relief with : claritin, zyrtec, niacin, fenugreek
Thanks for your comments, Largoo !
Yes, that could be seen like a contradiction. It is there because one of the reference members wrote on the forum that he did not have relief when using fenugreek ( In this case, it is POISse, that is why I havve put his member name after this list). This means he may have found release with something more powerful like Mytelase, for example. I do not keep the exact details about what element comes from what post on the forum of which reference member, so I cannot tell exactly hwy fenugreek did not help him ( I probably wrote that 8 years ago, so I do not remember, for sure !). But if you serach the posts by POISse on the forum, you could retrace his story and attempts.
For clarity, I will erase the second mention of fenugreek, which is a source of choline. This will not affect the overall idea if this section
By the way, it is just a hypothesis that there is a type of POIS linked to a cholinergic deficit. Still a lot of research will be needed to know more about the different types of POIS !
P.S.: I made a search in POISse posts, and found that this input with the mention of fenugreek not working for him is in this very thread - see at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19677#msg19677 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19677#msg19677)
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hi
maybe i am wrong
but i dont see any pois type reffering to adrenal fatigue
is there any reason for that ?
thx
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hi
maybe i am wrong
but i dont see any pois type reffering to adrenal fatigue
is there any reason for that ?
thx
No member posted a successful method for controlling symptoms that is based on an adrenal fatigue approach. If you have any successful experience in that direction, let me know !
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I have updated my POIS Type Chart today :)
I have upgraded the antihistamine section, adding the information from mike_sweden about promethazine. I also upgraded the NSAID section with nabrajjj protocol ( info received through PM), and upgraded the Psychotherapy/Sexotherapy section (#12) with lw case.
I also added Type #19, about non-ejaculatory orgasm method (Dry Orgasm / tantric orgasm). This method consists of preventing ejaculation during orgasm, with pressure on the base of the urethra with fingers and/or contraction of the pelvic floor muscles.
See more information in the POIS Types Chart itself and their relief methods, at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448)
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New POIS Type added: Responding to Xolair.
See details at #20 in the chart, https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448