Chart of POIS Types and Their Possible Relief Methods (ongoing project)

[Quantum]

Thanks Victor for all the information provided !  I will integrate to what is already in the niacin type section of my chart.

Any member that has success with a treatment is invited to do as Victor did, so I can add data to the chart.

[demografx]

POIS Types Chart

–
POIS type name: TRT type
Reference member(s)   Demografx
relief method description   Testosterone Replacement Therapy  ( warning, needs medical supervision)
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 70 - 90%
possible reason for effectiveness: TRT possibly offsets severe drop in testosterone [depletion?] after ejaculation/at POIS onset.
POIS symptoms ( mainly): severe fatigue: emotional, physical, cognitive -- plus, all 10 fingertips dry up, feel like they're "burning", yet simultaneously "drained", and there persists a strange sensation/high anxiety about this weird short-term (4 days) dermatitis condition -- resulting in much inexplicable psychic pain/anguish.
POIS worsen by: hot showers ( to confirmed with other members of this POIS type)
No relief with : progesterone
Other comments and information: TRT can cause infertility, killing sperm; major family planning implications. Medical supervision - especially for young POISers - is critical.
Note: for pattern detection, more than one reference member would be needed. Perhaps "Green" 's case study would be good for TRT inclusion?


[/list]

[demografx]

Quantum, I just now emailed/showed the above post to Dr Komisaruk, with a note that mine is just one example, and that you, Quantum,  are in the process of developing this database.

Thanks again!!
demo

[Marcusq]

POIS type name: Antihistaminics go well in my case
Reference member(s)   Marcusq
relief method description: 1 loratadine (antihistaminic) after O, if it's necessary another loratadine pill 24 hours after. Mainly it allows me to sleep as POIS gives me a strong anxiety and insomnia, I get a relief in bad mood as well with loratadine. I have stopped using antinflammotories because I can not conclude they give me a real relief.
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 30-40% relief during the 48 hours peak duration of pois. Caffeine as well helps me a bit to combat brain fog. No other products I have tried have a proved relief effect
possible reason for effectiveness: I am quite convinced pois in my case is an autoinmune reaction to any substance.
POIS symptoms ( mainly): brain fog , physical fatigue, insomnia, bad mood, isolation from other people, depression
POIS worsen by:
No relief with :
Other comments and information:

I should test other antihistaminics in order to find the best one which goes well on me, have anyone tried doxylamine? It's one of the most H1 powerful antihistaminics used to sleep mainly, pois gives a strong insomnia so there could be a relation, the thing is doxylamine is an antocholinergic as well and I'm not sure if that could worsen pois effects.

Thank you everybody to do your best in order to get a solution, c'mon guys we are each day closer to get a real solution,

Sorry for my english,

[Quantum]

POIS Types Chart

–
POIS type name: TRT type
(...)
Other comments and information: TRT can cause infertility, killing sperm; major family planning implications. Medical supervision - especially for young POISers - is critical.
Note: for pattern detection, more than one reference member would be needed. Perhaps "Green" 's case study would be good for TRT inclusion?


[/list]

Hi Demo, could you remind me where I can find the info for this "Green" TRT case study ?

And, thanks for the info, I have updated my chart with it.

[demografx]

Quantum, below is a reprint of Green's post (he also posted a fair amount at the Naked Scientists forum: POIS thread). For other comments in Green's thread, please see:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=17.msg17884#msg17884

Hi all, It's been a number of years since I've last posted on this forum, I've always lurked around and been an active reader.

I'm glad to report that I have had major success combating POIS and I can say to a large extent I am recovered from this malady.

For a number of years I've been self administrating testosterone in injectable form, having tried and tested a lot of the suggestions made on this forum and others, I've found nothing works better than administering testosterone.

Be warned if you were to try it without the aide of medical support and supervision it can be dangerous - [mod highlighting], I went through a massive change in personality and not for the better, and generally unstable and irritable.

I had a massive pathological workup and a huge amount of money spent on blood tests and seeing various doctors, in the end I got nothing but sheer frustration and the feeling of hopelessness, the only thing that stood out in my tests was my low free testosterone reading. I was referred to an Endocrinologist and although it was agreed that my testosterone levels fell below the reference range 212 ng/dl (250-1100 ng/dl) RR, even with pressure, perseverance and persistence on my part for a trail of testosterone from the Endocrin, he was not having it and told me to go on my way with a good luck.

A very long story short I've been injecting 83 mg per week ie 1/3 of an ampoule, considering the ester weight and injection site loss the absorption would be ~ 50mg, the same as what the average human body produces.

My total cure to POIS is

Testosterone 83mg per week
Fexafenodine on the day of orgasm
Paroxitine daily (20mg - 40mg)
Tramadol  4 caps (50mg)
Niacin 1000mg an hour prior to sex/O

On that combination I feel NO effects of POIS and I am able to function normally the next day, this is just my account of what has worked for me, having read the forums I know I had a VERY severe case of pois where literally I was bed bound for weeks on end and never had a sense of well being even out of POIS.
 
I hope this serves as some food for thought and discussion and my experience can help someone out there with this curse of an illness, I don't know where my life would have been if I didn't take the brave step and tried to resource the best I could and experiment. I know that this curse of an illness would have taken it's toll on every aspect of my life. I'm doing well in the sense I have a heightened sense of mental clarity and I am able to function normally within society, something I was not able to before.

[happy2]

POIS type name:  histamine

Reference member(s)   happy2

Relief method description:  10mgs of Zyrtec every night at 6pm, and 50mgs of Benadryl within 20 seconds immediately FOLLOWING orgasm, after EACH orgasm (any time of day or night - same results).

Effect on severity and duration of POIS:  complete 100% - No symptoms, other than Benadryl hangover the following day.  Nothing after that the following days.  Back to normal life as usual.  5-10 O's per week, since discovering "My Cure" since December 26th of 2015.

Possible reason for effectiveness:  if the histamine reaction is stopped, the neurological symptoms do not show up.

POIS worsen by:  Nothing now, POIS cured.  BEFORE discovering the Zyrtec/Benadryl combo, I had been using Claritin 10mgs daily with the same amount of benadryl for previous 3 years.  The cognitive symptoms persisted, just not nearly as intense as full-blown POIS which I had experienced Intensely since I was 22.  Now I'm 35.  Before the Claritin/Benadryl combo, 4 years ago, leading to the Zyrtec/Benadryl combo in December, 2015, I had full-blown POIS symptoms.  Fatigue on days four and five, Craziness on days 1 through 4.  Once on the Claritin/Benadryl combo in 2011, I found out if I did any kind of mental exertion, either through reading/studying in school, or physical exertion, I would get fatigue on days four and five.  If no exertion, or only minor-light exertion, no fatigue, ever.  Once I introduced the Zyrtec and dropped the Claritin out of my regimen, and kept the 50 mgs of Benadryl, No fatigue whatsoever, EVER, and POIS symptoms, gone completely.

No relief with :

Other comments and information:  All 3 doctors said Benadryl won't "do anything to you", "will just dry you out", and "won't do anything to your liver", the other said nothing.  In other words, you can take as much as you want.  O's this year equals 117 already; still 2 1/2 months to go.  All of last year equaled 30, and even less each of the last 10 years, trying to avoid the negative effects of the POIS.  If I keep up this rate, I might eclipse 200 this year already.

[Quantum]

Many thanks happy2 for your data, it will add to my main chart.

It would be useful if you could mention some well known treatment you have tried that had no effects or negative effects.  Did you tried niacin, or fenugreek, or some other talked about method?   If you and the other members in the anti-histamine group are, let's say, all relieved by antihistamine, and all "not" relieved by niacin ( I make this up), this would tell something about your specific type of POIS.

Another member of the antihistamine type have mentioned that his POIS gets worst when coming down from a caffeine high.  Did you ever have this effect ?

Thanks!

[happy2]

Quantum,
I never tried niacin, at least not the flush type.  I also never drank caffeine as I am a health nut and have been for 10 years.  Before the treatment and my cure with the anti-histamines carbohydrates made symptoms much much worse.  Cognitive symptoms included not being able to find the right words/ severe social phobia/anxiety, and problems communicating.  Also day 2 was always the worst as I've seen with many others.

Many thanks happy2 for your data, it will add to my main chart.

It would be useful if you could mention some well known treatment you have tried that had no effects or negative effects.  Did you tried niacin, or fenugreek, or some other talked about method?   If you and the other members in the anti-histamine group are, let's say, all relieved by antihistamine, and all "not" relieved by niacin ( I make this up), this would tell something about your specific type of POIS.

Another member of the antihistamine type have mentioned that his POIS gets worst when coming down from a caffeine high.  Did you ever have this effect ?

Thanks!

[Quantum]

Thanks for your answer, happy2.

I will add the mention about carbohydrates/sugars worsening effect in the antihistamine type section of the chart.

Interesting to note, others have already mentioned this worsening effect of refined sugars, like b_jim ( already noted in the Taurine type section of the chart).

[demografx]

happy2, thanks for your contribution!

[POISse]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to add some input about the mytelase and lecithin type.

POIS worsen by : sports (increased insomnia, fatigue, brain-fog) and alimentation (wheat products, coffee...)

Other relief: milk (helps a lot with social skills, 5HTP for mood, magnesium for energy).

No reliefs with : claritin, zyrtec, niacin, fenugreek...

I'm really interested in others experience with mytelase and lecithin.

Cheers,

POISse

[Quantum]

Many thanks POISse for this valuable input !  I will update my chart accordingly.

I agree with you, it would be interesting to know if others having success with Mytelase and/or lecithin also have the same worsening triggers than you have, or also had no results with antihistaminics, niacin and fenugreek.  So we would see if these are a "class effect", common to all members of the Mytelase/lecithin type.

Floppy Banana, if you agree to, could you compare your experience about these with POISse notes?  Thanks in advance.

I could ask Outsider to do so too. but he does not not come very often on this forum ( who also has found relief with Mytelase).  If you do read this, Outsider, please share some of your experience on what is worsening your POIS and what substance or method didn't bring any relief.

Obviously, I ask the same to any member who has relief with Mytelase and/or lecithin or other cholinergic treatment, in order to try and find patterns and useful data about the different types of POIS.

Any other member having success with any other source or relief is also invited to do so as well.  Knowing more about worsening conditions, as well as efficient and inefficient sources of relief may prove useful in order to understand POIS in general, and also its different types.

[Dirkstar]

POIS type name: NSAID Type
Reference member(s) Dirkstar
relief method description: 400-800mg Ibuprofen 20 minutes before significant arousal (much earlier if not on an empty stomach)
effect on severity and duration of POIS: 80-90% on severity, unclear effect on duration
possible reason for effectiveness: Decreased synthesis of prostaglandins by prostate which bind to spinal neurons causing hypersensitivity and non-focal CNS stress
POIS symptoms ( mainly): Severe brain fog including short and long term amnesia, slurring of speech, hypersensitivity particularly to sound, thrumming of middle ear muscles, headache, nausea, head "stuffiiness", fatigue, light sleep, sleeplessness, vivid dreams, scalp pimples w/in one day of orgasm then disappearing, crawling sensations on scalp and face; onset noticed w/in 30 minutes of orgasm or limited ejaculation near orgasm (though to a lesser degree), gradual increases in severity over 3 days then gradually disappears over next 5-7 days
POIS worsen by: Effects are cumulative with each ejaculation, intensity of orgasms
No relief with : Antihistimines, Niacin (need to revisit), B-12, Vitamin C, multi-vitamins, Tylenol before orgasm, good diet, exercise, alcohol
Other comments and information: Tylenol helps with hypersensitivity and sleep if taken before bedtime; Dirkstar also has developed early onset Parkinson's Disease possibly secondary to POIS via excitotoxicity of domaninergic neurons; Dirkstar also had (self-diagnosed) hypoglycemia when younger and possibly lessened with fitness when older possibly contributing to excitotoxity aspect of PD; Coffee might decrease duration of symptoms (but may have further stressed CNS leading to PD); May be related to hypersexuality and/or lengthy periods of arousal (intense dopaminergic stress); Dirkstar also seems to be prone to inflammatory disorders such as tendonitis, bursitis, and sinusitis; Dirkstar also has non-pattern hair loss since 15 yrs old impyling a hormonal or auto-immune problem linked to puberty/sexual activiity; Dirkstar diagnosed with restless legs syndrome which seems to correlate with POIS symptoms

[Quantum]

Thanks for this valuable input, Dirkstar, I will incorporate it in my chart.

It will be yet another POIS type.  but I suspect that before finding common threads between different types, there will be a first phase where many new types will be listed.  But once we find some specific criteria, we may be able to joined these types in 3 or 4 groups.... but for now, it is better to gather as much valuable information as possible, even if this means having dozens of POIS "Types" and seems to make the issue more complicated than it should.  But in the long run, gathering useful information from empirical successes in relief of symptoms is what will bring us some insights about the causes of POIS and the way to relieve it. 

However, the many different ways to relieve POIS seems to be exclusive - a method bringing benefits to one will make the other worst or have no effect.  So, to me, it is clear that even if all POIS sufferers share a common pattern of manifestation - a kind of systemic inflammatory response trigger by ejaculation or equivalent ( like prostate leaks) - the exact pattern through which this inflammatory response comes about is not necessarily identical in every case, because the immune system is very, very complex and as many, many branches.  That would explain why we can't find one treatment that help every POISers.  That would also explain why any individual POISer have difficulties even finding what works for himself, since from one POIS attack to the other, everything is not always identical, and one POISer may have more than one pattern contributing to the overall hypersensitivity reaction of the immune system.

[Dirkstar]

Thank you Quantum, I was looking forward to your response. I completely agree, especially noting that the suggested NSAID Type does not exclude an auto-immune component and indeed I have had auto-immune symptoms. Best regards

[Quantum]

Hi Dirkstar,

My POIS Types Chart is now updated and includes the NSAID type ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 , which is the second post at the top of this thread )

[caveeater]

My POIS has a histamine component amongst others...I cannot eat very high histamine foods without bad symptoms. I must generally avoid inflammatory foods like wheat and dairy, nuts and lectins (in grains and seeds etc). Doing a ketogenic diet really helped with the brain fog part of my POIS symptoms.

[Dirkstar]

Thanks caveeater. Was your histamine sensitivity diagnosed by a doctor? What kind of doctor?

[Michael218]

If anybody is aware of a member that could be added as a reference member to any of the POIS types of the chart, let me know, along with links to the post(s) on the forum where this member have written about his relief by a particular method ( which define, in my chart, the belonging to a particular group, see initial post of this thread for details about this )


The more members we will have in any specific group, the easier it will be to find the subtle differences that are particular to this group.  That's the first step in trying to see how many POIS types, in fact, there are, and what is the best way to relieve each of these types.

I'm in Quantum.

I have tried it about 3 times with 70%+ success and assume it will continue to be effective. I take: B3, B1, B6, B12, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Fenugreek, Alfalfa.

No idea what category you want to put that in.
Who the hell knows what is working and what isn't. Could be the B's, could be the Fenugreek, could be a combination...

Is it worth adding an extra marker for: how you deal with NE's so we know what people are doing and what the success is?

This was an amazing chart - am sure we can't thank you enough.