Chart of POIS Types and Their Possible Relief Methods (ongoing project)

[Quantum]

I am glad you have found some relief, Unvers.  You are on to something, just keep experimenting, safely, to progressively improve the duration and level of your relief.

[JR]

The symptoms I have, as far as one can tell, seems to originate in the genital/prostate/rectum area and is initiated during orgasm. I have also had incidents where bowel movement seems to trigger symptoms temporarily.

In rare cases an orgasm after an attack can relieve symptoms almost completely.
In this case it could be possible, if lucky, to go from physically sick
and severely depressed (feeling mentally ill) to being fine within an hour. (*)

There are similarities between POIS and chronic prostatitis, but it seems that the mental / emotional aspects is more central to POIS more so than prostatitis, and that problems with urinating is related to the latter but not the former.

The mental and emotional symptoms (depression/inability to relax/change in personality, a feeling of being mentally ill),
are the most debilitating.

This and the exhaustion makes it difficult to be the man I could be.

There are also some strange symptoms such as
having "attacks" of urges to breath faster / more heavily,
an inability to feel full (having hunger which cannot be relieved)
lower back pain, itching, blurred vision, joint pain, stuffy nose
pain when sitting down for long periods of time
etc.

I wrote a post earlier about my symptoms but decided to delete it because I am not sure whether this is POIS or something else.
Because of (*), in my case, one could imagine there being something anatomically / structurally faulty which starts the inflammation and then it spreads as a more systematic response.

I also have celiac disease.

Thanks for the PM's I received to my previous post.


Edit: Sorry for a lousy post - I will repost when feeling better,
was thinking specifically with regards to how one relates to others and how
others relates to you, society etc. etc. when having this disease.

[Going less Crazy]

I have celiac as well but am managing it very good now.  And pois is no longer a problem.  I had to eliminate a lot of foods for POIS to be relieved.  Every one of my symptoms can relate back to a specific food I ate.  O no longer causes symptoms.  I'm wondering maybe how your pois would react if you limited your diet some more (dairy, grains, processed sugar... Etc.)

[Quantum]

HI, RJ,

What you describe definitively sounds like POIS.

Other members have stated that a second orgasm once POIS symptoms have started can stop POIS dead in its tracks.   It is not the case for every members, but it has been reported before.

[Unvers]

I also noticed that after an orgasm if I have another in a few hours I tend to enjoy more the second orgasm but after a couple of hours symptoms may be stronger, in the past I managed to have many orgasms in the same day and symptoms didn't worsened much, POIS is a very strange thing, ruined my life for many years and made me think that the level of anxiety, depression and fatigue I experienced was my normal mood and this in turn made me more depressed and I used to masturbate to relieve stress worsening the situation even more, all this made me suicidal for years, POIS is Hell on Earth.

[demografx]

POIS is Hell on Earth.

VERY well said.

[Unvers]

Hi, I watched a topic where an user described very carefully how he beated his POIS but now can't find it, it was a topic full of medical notions, anyone could please link it?

[certainlypois2]

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21553#msg21553
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2456.msg21546#msg21546
It is prolly one of those two

[Unvers]

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2502.msg21553#msg21553
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2456.msg21546#msg21546
It is prolly one of those two

Very interesting, thank you!

[JR]

I have celiac as well but am managing it very good now.  And pois is no longer a problem.  I had to eliminate a lot of foods for POIS to be relieved.  Every one of my symptoms can relate back to a specific food I ate.  O no longer causes symptoms.  I'm wondering maybe how your pois would react if you limited your diet some more (dairy, grains, processed sugar... Etc.)

Thanks all for the replies. I will try to be more strict with the gluten free diet.
The symptoms of celiac often feel like pois to me, perhaps because they are both inflammatory in origin.
Both decrease with the use of NSAIDs / antihistamines /anti-inflammatory Quercitin, Olive Leaf Extract, Curcumin, Capsicum etc.

There are days when I feel so well that I remember how it was to be a kid.
That may be only a few days per year, but still.
Everything is more alive, just being is pleasant
a different feeling of time and being in the world

[POISse]

I wanted to add few things about my pois type. It seems that (I'm talking for myself only here) O is not the only trigger of symptoms.
First there is a huge correlation between pois symptoms and food. Indeed, O can trigger practically no symptoms on an empty stomach and certain food can trigger symtpoms without any O. This brings me close to the diet type. If I avoid a very long list of food and take mytelase I can be almost pois free.
Second, exercise can also trigger very strong symptoms (brain fog, double vision, fatigue, mood change, depression, anxiety) without any O. I guess this is ME/CFS so it may not be applicable to everyone.
Finally other things like smoking can trigger other symptoms.

According to the POIS definition, the symptoms go away after 4 to 7 days but in my case Mytelase improve my condition even if taken weeks after a pois attack. This make me wonder if I really have pois...

[Disaster]

Seeing this chart for the first time. Very cool, thanks for putting it together.  Basically I believe there are many subtypes like you outlined. I also believe there are some crossovers between the types that might link them. Not only symptoms but the things that are providing relief or the treatments actually can effect the same bodily issues. The two most things I see crossing over are Treatments that affect Blood Pressure for example Beta Blockers, Niacin, NSAIDs, etc.. Niacin and Beta Blockers lower blood Pressure while NSAID boost it a little. That might seem like opposites but I believed Blood Pressure is being raised too high for an undetermined reason during arrousal and then after O it snaps back too hard and may actually became lower after O for a short period. If you Lower BP before Arousal then you never have that major spike in BP. If you do the opposite and you take a BP raising drug or supplement then even if it spike it won't snap back so hard. Mine for instance is perfect before I start at 117/78, during arrousal it's 160/103, after O it's 104/66. But if you take a lowering treatment it won't go to 160 it'll go to 130 but it may go lower than 104 after O, it's all about timing the duration. If you take a BP raising treatment before then you start out at 135 and go to maybe 160 but after O you go back to 130 not 104. It's that hard snap that I think sets off a chain reaction or cascade. The body interrupters that as a signal and releases different chemicals. The chemical release may be different which accounts for symptom variation.

There are other correlations. But ultimately I don't think it is difficault to figure out POIS. All that is needed is a lab that testes before, during arrousal and after O and compares the results. Both Bloodwork and Ultrasound comparisons or possibly Functional MRIs too.

[Quantum]

Hi Disaster,

Thanks for your comments.  It is one of the long term goal of this chart to find common patterns to different types, and I hope that some day we could come out with 5 or 6 sub-types maximum, with an idea of what method of symptoms control is efficient for any of these sub-types.  But it's a long way to go before reaching this goal.

About blood tests, you may be interested in this:  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2541.msg21986#msg21986

[Disaster]

I recently wrote to one of the foremost medical doctors in the world about POIS research. Will update when I hear something back.

[Quantum]

I have made a change to the way POIS types are named in the chart.  They now are named like :

POIS type:  Responding to treatment with (name of treatment or method).

It is more accurate to say, for example, that there is a POIS Type responding to niacin, than saying a "Niacin POIS Type".  Just like in saying that a throat infection is responding to a treatment with penicillin.   this is more in tune with medical way of saying things.  There are even bacteria strains that are named according to their resistance to treatment by a specific antibiotics, like MRSA ( methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus).  So, I am not naming POIS types like "POIS resistant to niacin", which could be possible too, but my initial intent was to name POIS types according to treatment/relief method success.

I have also added the following note at the top of the chart:

"Pois types in this chart are named and classified according to the treatment or method they are positively responding to.   If symptoms of two different members are relieved by the same method or treatment, they are considered, in this chart, to have the same POIS type."

I have also added a POIS type responding to psychotherapy/sex therapy.

[Vandemolen]

You fogot one group: desensitization treatment. I have 70% less symptoms and only 1 day of POIS. And I am not the only one.

And also cbd oil. Zero POIS with highly pure (20%) cbd oil. Unfortunatly because of an overdose I developped an allergy for cbd oil.

One big difference in POIS types is guys with and without NE/PE.

Another difference is guys who don’t get POIS if they have sexual activity but don’t ejaculate.

[Quantum]

Ni Vandemolen,

Thanks for the input.

About CBD oil, can you give me some more information, so I can put more detail in the section, like, the dosage you used, the time and method ( every day?  only on POIS days?....),  the Symptoms ti treated, the symptoms it didn't relieved, your main POIS symptoms, etc... like in other sections.  I will surely add a note about your allergy development, and will also underline that CBD oil is not legal in every country.

About desensitization, I don't think I will include it in the chart, because Dr Waldinger himself, who have created this protocol, wrote in his POIS review article of August 2016 that he abandoned this treatment. Moreover, he now speaks of POIS as a auto-immune disease rather than an allergy,  and auto-immune disease are usually not treated with desens ( ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19538#msg19538 for more details) ).  In an interview, he also apologized has being responsible for the misleading concept of "allergy to semen".  So, I think it is not relevant that new members consider trying a treatment method that has no more support in the medical community, that they may never be able to get medical support for, and that is no more studied.  Other methods in the chart are accessible, but desens no longer is.  Dr Waldinger is currently doing new research for a treatment in line with his new way of understanding POIS.

[Vandemolen]

Ni Vandemolen,

Thanks for the input.

About CBD oil, can you give me some more information, so I can put more detail in the section, like, the dosage you used, the time and method ( every day?  only on POIS days?....),  the Symptoms ti treated, the symptoms it didn't relieved, your main POIS symptoms, etc... like in other sections.  I will surely add a note about your allergy development, and will also underline that CBD oil is not legal in every country.

About desensitization, I don't think I will include it in the chart, because Dr Waldinger himself, who have created this protocol, wrote in his POIS review article of August 2016 that he abandoned this treatment. Moreover, he now speaks of POIS as a auto-immune disease rather than an allergy,  and auto-immune disease are usually not treated with desens ( ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19538#msg19538 for more details) ).  In an interview, he also apologized has being responsible for the misleading concept of "allergy to semen".  So, I think it is not relevant that new members consider trying a treatment method that has no more support in the medical community, that they may never be able to get medical support for, and that is no more studied.  Other methods in the chart are accessible, but desens no longer is.  Dr Waldinger is currently doing new research for a treatment in line with his new way of understanding POIS.

About the desens. I agree with you. I didn’t think that this topic is a list for POIS-patients. I often get pm’s from guys who want to do desens. For more than 1 year I always advice them not to start with desens. Ok my POIS is decreased with 70% and from 4 days to 1 day. But desens is a project for 5 years. I am hopefull that before that time there will be better treatments. In The Netherlands there is a new POIS research that concentrates on the gut (also auto immune theory). It’s a cure, not a treatment. I hope that I can get this cure in 2018 and that it will help me and others. Unfortunately I can’t tell you more about it.

[Vandemolen]

CBD oil. It has to be purified 20% cbd oil. There is a guy who has been succesfully treated by over the counter 3,5% cbd oil, but it didn’t help me. For the 20% cbd oil. Start with 1 drop before going to sleep. The next morning 1 drop and at night 1 drop. The next morning 2 drops and the at night 2 drops. The cbd oil will work after 2 weeks. I didn’t had any POIS-symptom. But when you stop with the oil the POIS comes back. The 20% oil was at that time very rare. So after 2 months I was out of CBD oil. A few months later I get new cbd oil. But when I started I used 4 drops in just a few hours. I got allergic and got sick. After 6 months (last week) I started with 1 drop. It went well. Two days later again 1 drop. But I got sick again. So my allergy for cbd oil isn’t still over.

Symptoms: flu like symptoms, feeling cold, extreme fatigue, exhausted, palpitations, problems finding words, incoherent speech, dysarthria, concentration difficulties, quickly irritated, can not stand noice, photophobia, depressed mood, headache, itching eyes, painful eye, congestion nose, watery, runny nose, sneezing, white tongue, dirty taste in mouth, dry mouth, sore throat, muscle tenstion in back and neck, muscle weakness, pain muscles, stiffness muscles.
No NE, no PE.
Symptoms for 1 day, used to be 4 days.
Symptoms worse when I don’t ecajulate after sexual activity.

[Muon]

About desensitization, I don't think I will include it in the chart, because Dr Waldinger himself, who have created this protocol, wrote in his POIS review article of August 2016 that he abandoned this treatment.

So if Waldinger abandoned this treatment does that mean it didn't help patients who underwent this treatment?

Moreover, he now speaks of POIS as a auto-immune disease rather than an allergy,  and auto-immune disease are usually not treated with desens ( ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2346.msg19538#msg19538 for more details) ).

That's right, but who says desensitization is automatically coupled to an allergy in POIS? There are at least 1000 different proteins in sperm, al kinds of immune parameters like IFN-g and interleukins. If Subcutaneous injections improve POIS symptoms, that does not implicate an one-to-one relation to an allergy cause.   

In an interview, he also apologized has being responsible for the misleading concept of "allergy to semen".  So, I think it is not relevant that new members consider trying a treatment method that has no more support in the medical community, that they may never be able to get medical support for, and that is no more studied.

So where is the medical community support for niacin, anti-histamine and taurine for example? You include these in your chart but never had any medical community support or being part of a study, quite contradictory with the above argument you are using. Again, if Waldinger drops his concept of allergy does that imply desenz will not improve POIS symptoms?

Other methods in the chart are accessible, but desens no longer is.  Dr Waldinger is currently doing new research for a treatment in line with his new way of understanding POIS.

I don't think this should be an argument to scrap desenz from the chart. Desenz has helped people with their symptoms so I don't see the reason why you wouldn't include it. You could add for example a notification that this method is barely accessible. There are also other reasons why he dropped this treatment, because it is time consuming and thus expensive.