Author Topic: Progecitor's summary  (Read 14100 times)


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Progecitor's summary
« on: April 19, 2021, 02:27:16 PM »
For reference I began to masturbate at the age of 11 (1996) and the first symptom I can remember was IBS (in 1996 or 1997). I think I might have overdone masturbation around the age of 12-13 and it could have lead to POIS, although not certain. I realized that many of my symptoms were related to sexual activity (~2000), POIS exacerbated at the age of 17 (2003) and I developed a serious mental problem due to a distinct symptom (not for disclosure). I discovered the name of the disease in 2018. Found the first acceptable treatment (MACA) in 2020. Even though both SSRIs, SNRIs and tryptophan work about the same way I still have a special problem with them.
I have never taken illegal drugs. I have never smoked. I have never had a relationship or sexual contact with anyone whatsoever. I hardly ever drink any alcohol. I think I am a bit addicted to porn. I am definitely hetero. I masturbate around once in 1-2 weeks time.

In the beginning I often had a feverish feeling and was prone to IBS-D. This might had been because I hadn't eaten enough as my POIS seems to be accompanied with a serious energy expenditure. I was probably more prone to dysbacteriosis then, but it can't be proven in my case anymore. As to my current symptoms:
- The burning sensation of excretion I said before. After O I tend to have IBS-C (not by definition).
- Hypothermia or at least a perception of it after the heat of O passes. It is also noticeable at acute-chronic phase turnover after which I don't really feel cold anymore. In the winter I often can't keep my hands warm. Even wearing two gloves can't get it warm, although winters here are quite mild usually.
- Some kind of mild rhinitis is present all the time. The phlegm often contains some blood. My nose is often dry. A burning sensation can often be felt in the nose. Interestingly taking tryptophan or medicinal mushrooms (probably apigenin) makes this go away, but I also tend to sneeze more often, because of them.
- I hardly ever cough, but after talking more then one hour I usually develop a sore throat. I can have some coughing sprees too when I do a lot of physical work.
- Ocular photophobia: It occurs in the mornings. I can't keep my eyes open in the light as I feel as it is burning my eyes out. If I try to force them open I often sneeze. I don't have a skin light sensitivity.
- Bloodshot eyes/Red eyes symptom: I often have a blurry vision linked to brain fog. I am also short sighted with about -3.0 and -4.0 diopter. My sight began to deteriorate around the time I had began masturbating, so there might be a link, but not necessarily. At acute onset I can have quite red bloodshot eyes. It doesn't mean I have full-blown red eyes, but veins seem to leak. It might be due to vasodialation and/or irritation. This symptom can change really fast. It looks like my eye is constantly regenerating, but it can't always keep up with deterioration. In chronic phase my eyes can be really white, but as a low grade POIS is present it can return to some degree intermittently.
- Skin problems: I only have mild skin symptoms. Some slight red dots appear on the chest after O. In the first few days after bathing and drying myself with a towel I can get a very itchy skin for a short time or until dressed. I often have some acne after O even if I have a shower, but it might be normal for the skin to become more oily after O. Very rarely I can develop a really painful red rash besides the anus when I sweat and work a really lot, but with cleaning and rest it disappears by next day. Dandruff is also definitely correlated with acute POIS, but I can manage it quite well with Nizoral.
- Increased hunger right after O: I just have to eat anything even when my stomach is full. I also have a similar experience by eating apple in the chronic phase. I also can't get rid of biting my nails unconsciously because of this and I might be more susceptible to pathogens, although it also seems that they can't really live within me.
- Cognitive problems: I have typical mind fog which is usually strongest in the morning, but can still be present in the evening. Blurry vision and decreased cognition are tightly linked. The more acute POIS is the less I can focus. I can have a psychogenic nausea from any mental activity during a very acute phase. I can usually tolerate passive activity (like watching TV) better then active activity (like reading or playing video games) even if it is fun. I have short term memory problems like forgetting things I have been just told or having a complete block down when speaking about something and I often can't recall words I want to say. I don't seem to have a problem with long term memory otherwise I wouldn't be able to write in English. Actually if I am reminded (like next day) I can even recall a short term memory, so it seems that it is all about the inability to recall short or long term memories. In chronic phase I can recall a lot more things and I can speak much more fluently. I also seem to be much more creative then. I don't know much about this stuff, but there is a distinction of episodic memory related to detail. I often noticed that when I read a book in chronic phase I remembered the details quite vividly, but after an O it is like I had an amnesia in episodic memory. I can still roughly remember what happened, but I simply can't remember the details and they don't really come back even in the next chronic phase unless I learned them. Needless to say how terrible a storyteller I am. When brain fog is heavy in the morning (usually until late afternoon) my train of thoughts often stops completely. I just gaze stupidly at the world and can only have the most primal of thoughts. I actually see that others see that I am stupid, but I just can't do anything about it and it is frustrating. I also found that mental activity can have a lower, but similar effect as tryptophan, and it is no wonder as it actually increases with both mental and physical activity.
- Muscle fatigue: General low-grade muscle fatigue. I can usually overcome it with willpower, but it still hurts while working. The lower leg doesn't really hurt that's why I can stand alright. The thigh hurts more especially when going upstairs. I also feel a weaker pain in my arm, but it is only a problem when I want to lift a heavier weight as even when I develop muscles I simply can't lift things due to increasing pain. It is so good to sit down after work that I don't even want to stand up for at least an hour. I found that applying menthol balsam can really regenerate it by next day, but with physical activity it soon comes back. Physical activity seems to have a dual effect as in some regard it makes my symptoms stronger, but it can also clear up my mind. With a short physical activity red eye problems can get better, but after a while it can even get worse due to exertion.
- Nodules (enlarged lymph nodes) in the breast: I don't even know when I developed this, but I had them for years and they are present almost all the time. After acute POIS onset larger nodules can be felt in the breast tissue. They are mildly painful to the touch. They get smaller as POIS vanes, but can still be present in chronic phase. They are certainly not malignant, but there is a definite link to the chest pain symptom. The breasts are completely normal in appearance otherwise.
- Periodic chest pain: I only have this symptom from my early 20th of age. I think it has a connection with breast nodules as pain usually develops beneath them. This most often occurs right after O and when I manage my POIS badly like eating undesirable food. It is usually present for a few days.
The pain can be very severe. I can lie in the bed without feeling any pain, but for the slightest of movement it feels like being stabbed for a short moment. I think it might be partly because of some physical tension, but it might be some immunological thing too. It can appear on either sides or at both sometimes and it can also go from one side (it can disappear) to the other. At a moderate episode I was at the pediatric clinic and ECG proved negative and radiography also proved negative so it is not apparently a pulmonitis or at least it is not an apparent pulmonitis. Blood test was rather normal and only creatine phosphokinase (CPK) was high with CPK: 1032 IU/L (24-190). CPK was good in other blood tests where it was measured. It might be an allergic case of extrapleural interstitial liquid without pulmonitis, but I might be wrong.
Somewhat contrary to this when riding a bike (weak exertion) and breathing a lot of fresh air symptoms can get better. I also noticed that charcoal can help somewhat while coffee (black list foods too, but coffee did this many times so I am sure of it) can reintensify pain. Actually it is rather lucky that I have never told anyone at my work place about my chest pain as I have it quite frequently. I can usually conceal it quite well and even in those cases I couldn't I always said it was only a heart burn, because of a weak heart, so they don't suspect me of harboring tuberculosis or something. If I had really told about it to others I might have been in trouble due to the pandemic as I would have been suspected frequently even though I had this symptom for a decade now. It is not even like I was lying as even my relatives and my doctors had never believed it. Even at the one time my blood test showed something the doctor said it would go away. I knew that even without being told, but the problem is that it always returns too.
- Periodic kidney pain: at a time it occurred once or twice a year and lasted about two days. Usually the site of the kidney was in pain. I haven't had a medical check-up for this so I don't know more. I am sure this developed due to sit-ups, which can increase my disease the most. I think I even had a pancreatitis once for a few days due to this. When I have a muscle fever I feel really bad for days. At the time I thought it was due to some kind of lactic acidosis, but I am really not sure at this point. I haven't had this symptom since I stopped doing sit-ups and it was years ago.
- Urinary problems: I don't have a problem with holding the urine, but I have a serious problem with the urge of urination. I don't really have to go peeing very frequently, but the urge comes in a few hours. If I don't urinate my symptoms are enhanced. If I urinate the volume is usually small, so it is not like my bladder can't hold any more, but the capsaicin-like, burning compound probably begins to irritate the nerves in the bladder. The kidneys probably also reach a threshold where they can force this compound into the urine and so its level begins to elevate in my whole body aggravating symptoms. It is often a bit hard to let go as at the end of the penis it actually creates a slight pain which wants to stop my body from letting go. I could sleep through a night when I was younger, but since a few years ago (when I was 28-29) I almost always wake up at night sometimes very precisely in 6 hours from going to sleep. Although when I am in the chronic phase I can often sleep through the night without waking up.
- Slight tachycardia: My blood pressure seems to be normal usually, but it seems I can have some problems with my pulse. There are times when I suddenly wake up at night even when I didn't have any bad dreams. My tinnitus can be especially loud. When measuring it the blood pressure seems to be good, but pulse can be 90-100. After I go and urinate (decrease the capsaicin-like compound) and drink a bit of water I can go to bed again and slowly I feel relaxed again.
- Conjunctivitis: I am not sure the medical terms I use are correct, but I often have dry eyes which is of course in some relation to bloodshot eyes (maybe uveitis). This symptom can occur anytime and especially when I am in front of the monitor. It also tends to increase at late night when I am getting tired. If I still force them I tend to have more pronounced bloodshot eyes.
- Sleeping problems: Often I can only get myself to sleep when I am on my belly. At the first time I heard about COVID-19 patients being better lying on their belly-side I immediately associated to my disease and always thought that there must be an association between the two and now it seems especially likely. I usually get quite tired right after O, but not to a degree that I can't stay awake, just that my body really desires it. I can have a disturbed sleep on the first sleep after an O, but on the following days I can usually rest quite well unless I wake up because of the urge to urinate or the loud tinnitus. What I also noticed that in acute POIS I don't really have any dreams. I am not exactly sure if I don't have them or just can't remember them. As chronic POIS follows I begin to have more dreams or at least I can remember them. The problem with vivid dreams is however that they can often be erotic and my unconscious ego tends to realize the consequences too late. :)
I also noticed that I can get a very refreshing sleep without a blanket even if I have a pajama on, but I can only do this in the summer when there is a relatively warm air, especially due to my hypothermia.
- Headache: Of course I can also have headaches, but I can pretty well control the appearance of this symptom, so they don't pose such a threat anymore. At the beginning of my severe POIS development (around the age of 17, but I had symptoms beforehand too) I had some very serious headaches. At one time I clearly remember that I was lying in bed for two days as I had a very bad headache (unresponsive to painkillers) and sometime I opened the window to get some fresh air and then miraculously only an hour later there was hardly any pain. Since then I always try to get as much fresh air as I can and keep a window slightly open even during winter. I haven't really tested many painkillers, but Quarelin (400 mg metamizol sodium, 60 mg caffeine, 40 mg drotaverine hydrochloride) can surely get rid of it and often even a half is enough if the pain is not severe. It is rather strange that it contains caffeine as drinking a coffee can often elevate (there are cases when it lowers it) a head-ache as well as my other symptoms. I suspect that other components play a role in this and caffeine just might be good. Another thing that can cause a headache is if I can't go to the toilet in the morning and have to do a lot of physical work. A headache that develops this way usually doesn't react well to painkillers and often only going to the loo can solve the problem after which the pain can slowly subside. Mainly this is the reason that I still keep drinking coffee in the morning, although it can surely cause bloodshot eyes and enhance chest pain, but can reduce brain-fog and clear me out. Head-ache also has a connection to bloodshot eyes. When bloodshot eyes are very severe I can develop a head-ache in response, but it can also happen the other way around.
Other less frequent symptoms: transient joint pain (There was a time when I actually developed it for a few days or weeks while I was taking glucosamine-sulfate), transient muscle twitches (usually resolves with position change. I think it might be connected to the blood veins, but I was not even aware that this could be a POIS specific symptom and haven't really cared about it.)

The following may not have a relation to POIS:
- Sensory neuropathy: Around 2010 I had about 4 or 5 episodes (with a few month to a year in between) of neuropathic pain which had lasted for about one or two month. It either started from my big toes on both of my legs and day by day slowly crawled up to my waist. Or it started from the fingers on one of my arm and crawled to my chest. It felt like constantly being stabbed by tiny needles on the skin surface which was a hellish pain without seeming of an end. I could move, but I didn't want to stand on any of my soles because of the pain or couldn't easily hold a pen in case of my fingers. There was a time when I was lying in the bed in the morning when it was warm under the blanket, but I felt like freezing. It seems my receptors had ran haywire on my skin. The first time was the worst though as I thought that it would never go away. At the first episode I went to see the doctor after a week where the GP prescribed meloxicam, which did nothing to the pain. I also went to Rheumatology where they told me I have no muscle, but they didn't give me the correct diagnosis (it was dorsalgia and muscle pain). As the pain somehow disappeared on its own after quite a few weeks I didn't even seek medical knowledge in the following episodes. I was quite disappointed in doctors by this time. I have only found out that I had actually had sensory neuropathic pain a few years ago while I was searching for POIS. I really have to question how competent they were at Rheumatology or if they just didn't want to bother with me. Fortunately this kind of pain hasn't returned for years, but even if it had now I at least know its name.
I had some O during these episodes and it had never changed the normal POIS episode. Still I think the actual initiation of the episodes were linked to times when I did sit-ups more often, and since I realized this I have never done sit-ups anymore. It really might have been the nerves in my backbone in this case, but who knows for sure.
- Enlarged lymph nodes on the backside of the neck somewhat under the ears. I developed this a few years ago. Once or a few times in a year either of them can get inflamed for a few days, but then the pain disappears. It doesn't react to acute phase, but it seems somewhat similar to the chest pain.
- Epigastrial discomfort: It also only developed a few years ago. It might have been the result of eating too much all the time. I often felt my stomach was full even when I was hungry. A mild pain was present almost all the time. I didn't have a medical check-up for this but I also never had reflux.
- Ass muscle pain/inflammation: It also developed only a few years ago. The origin of the pain is deep in the muscle somewhere close to the rectum, but it doesn't seem I can feel any nodules there. It resembles very much to the chest pain. It usually lasts a few days. The pain can be present on only one side, but can also move to the other. It has the same stabbing kind of pain with movement. Only a kind of inflammation can be felt when I am not in motion. As pain becomes very severe I practically become lame and can hardly move. Now the most perplexing thing in this regard is that this symptom most often occurs at the beginning of the chronic phase and the only really thing that can actually stop its build-up is having a release by O. If I don't release just masturbate it can enhance the pain. Even O doesn't make it regress right away, but it seems to be a turning point in its course. Two years ago I very often had this pain and interestingly chest pain occurred less often although I masturbated with about the same frequency.
- Left ear tinnitus: Developed it around 2010. Maybe it was due to an infection. I can hear the pulse constantly which can be a pain when I am reading a book in the silent room. Sometimes it gets louder, but measuring my blood pressure and pulse often proves normal. Sometimes I had acute POIS related sleep disorder when I suddenly woke up in the middle of the night with a very loud tinnitus. When I measured the blood pressure it was often completely normal, but pulse was often around 100 what I wouldn't have expected while sleeping.

Other considerations:
- Chronic sleep deprivation generally makes me feel more ill.
- After acute sleep deprivation (about 22 hours) I develop a kind of superPOIS state. I begin feeling very unwell. I get a constant tingling sensation in my belly. My anus is constantly itching. At a time I also felt like freezing, although it was a warm summer day. It was hard to stop the shaking under the blanket, but a good sleep solved the problem every time. I only had this state a few times and not in the last ten years, because I am not stupid to stay awake to wait for it anymore. I should recheck this state, but I can't really get myself to do it.

Things that enhance my POIS:
1. ejaculation: Make no mistake I have a chronic phase and O just enhances it in my (s)experience.
2. sleep deprivation: either chronic or acute
3. diet: It doesn’t really matter what I eat I still have POIS, but some food can seriously enhance it.
4. physical and mental exertion: usually dual effect: some symptoms strengthen while others weaken.
5. medicine and supplementation: Can go both ways. Many things are under trial.

Psychological effects that can enhance my POIS (probably due to parasympathetic enhancement):
- Having a cathartic experience while watching a good movie.
- Crying (sometimes because of my sorrow)
- Reading a lot has a dual effect (probably tryptophan)
What actually weakens my POIS is psychological stress, but only for a short time and it also doesn't make it disappear.

I usually have brain fog and ocular photophobia in the morning and by evening my mind tends to clear up somewhat. I also tend to have a burning urine in the evenings.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 01:38:32 AM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2021, 03:33:20 PM »
Some foods evidently enhance POIS, but this is not an actual food allergy. They also act the same in the chronic phase, but in the acute phase the impact is more severe. There are foods that act quickly (like in an hour), but others act only by next day or as long as it is in my body. Unfortunately I couldn't get myself into a rigorous selective diet and also haven't documented all separate symptom enhancement in detail, but they all generally make me feel more ill. Medical tests didn't prove lactose or gluten intolerance.

Black list:
- paprika/ sweet pepper: Sweet pepper contains non-pungent capsiate and could be a reason for TRPV1 activation. Of course hot pepper with capsaicin is twice as worse. Also any food made from sweet pepper even if cooked or fried has a negative effect, except if it is pickled.
- tomato: First it makes me better. Minutes after consuming it the blurry vision clears up and I can think more straight. As it moves along digestion it makes me a bit worse, but nowhere near as paprika.
- apple: same as paprika, but also makes me very hungry just as an acute pois onset. Apple makes the stool looser, but the burning pain is also intensified.
A few years ago I often drank some diluted apple cider vinegar before going to sleep and I usually woke up much fresher without the pronounced brain fog. The reason I stopped using it is that somehow I tend to forget about good methods. :) It seems likely that fermented apple only contains the good components of apple (most probably quercetin) and not the ones that make me ill.
- apricot: the fruit and jam also, the bloodshot eyes are especially bad which is usually accompanied by morning ocular photophobia.
- cherry: Bloodshot eyes. It also contains melatonin, but not sure of its involvement.
- banana: Bloodshot eyes by next morning even though banana contains tryptophan which would theoretically lessen this symptom.
- peach: usually needs a greater amount for an effect.
- strawberry: seems to have a very mild, but negative effect
- poppy seed: acts quickly and long, same burning effect. Needless to say that eating poppy seed cake with cherry as one would usually do makes me very ill. Cetirizine may only have a mild effect on POIS, but it may greatly reduce the effect of some foods. I haven't tested this idea extensively, but I ate poppy seed a few times without any problems while taking MACA and Cetirizine.
- walnut: generally feel bad, interestingly has a slighter effect when eating continuously, but not eating it for a time, then starting again has the same severe effect. Certainly increases the burning pain just like poppy seed does.
- sour cabbage/sauerkraut: It induces POIS quite severely, but interestingly normal cooked cabbage doesn't really have an effect, although it seems I can lose weight overnight by gorging myself with (meat and rice) stuffed cabbage, which is funny. It is hard to believe that other POISers have such a good experience with it. Well we usually eat the home-made kind and the starting culture could be different.
- whole bread / graham bread: Enhances POIS symptoms. Especially if eaten with foods like paprika/sweet pepper. Stool is sticky and burning which I think is a sign of dysbacteriosis and dysfermentation. I also can't eat normal bread as I get constipated and my gut aches. I found that I can at least eat rye bread and German wheat/spelt in moderation without problems. German wheat has a high tryptophan content which might have something to do with it. I also don't have any problem with soft buns or croissant, so I don't think it is a gluten matter at all.
- red wine: Really the only thing I can drink, but this also makes me the worst. Consuming a greater amount (I don't remember, but maybe half a bottle or a whole bottle) can cause a burning diarrhea.
Its strange that it contains serotonin and I still feel bad.
- coffee: Clearly enhances the disease, especially the bloodshot eyes and the chest pain when it occurs at the time. Without sugar or with milk (even if sugar is added) has a slighter effect. It seems a controversy, but I still drink it as it helps bowel clearance. I noticed if I can't go to the toilet in the morning and do physical activity at work I often develop a serious headache supposedly because high toxin concentration in the bowel. There were several cases when I really regretted that I had drank coffee during work even though my gut was normal at the time. At home I only drink it with a lot of milk while also eating something, but at work it is usually not available. So several times I drank it in itself and it often induced an unavoidable diarrhea. Interestingly often there wasn't any stool, but only some clear, white mucus with a lot of flatulence. First I wasn't even sure what it was so once I took a sample to parasitology, but they only said that it was negative. I have to guess it is really mucus either due to erosion or a clear apoptopic event. When I drank pure coffee without added sugar it happened less often, so I have to guess that bacteria are also involved (maybe SIBO).
- cinnamon: there is no stomach ache as in allergy, it just enhances POIS. Red eye symptom can be bad.
- clove (I mean the one that is used with biscuits and not garlic): like cinnamon
- thyme: like cinnamon

(revised in selective tests as seen below)

- milk: I don't have a noticable problem with it (I don't drink more than a liter daily). Yogurt can have a dual effect. Although lactase ensyme (5000 FCCU) has a minimal positive effect, I wouldn't say it is worth serious consideration. Contrary to this after going home from the negative lactulose test it gave me a severe itchiness at the bottom, but without diarrhea, so disbacteriosis still must have occured. This is one of the reasons that I think that lactic acid must be involved.
- soy beans
- egg-plant: I am defenitely ill of it (gut ache), but I also don't think it is a POIS related thing. As many of us have problems with nightshades it is probably a bad thing indeed.
- hemp seeds: I ate them a few times and they possibly increased the burning pain, but symptoms were not awful, so it only has a weak effect.
- chicory coffee: It doesn't contain caffeine, however it still produces a similar effect as coffee. Eyes are noticeably more bloodshot and the burning pain is increased.
- instant coffees: These are usually even worse than coffee even when I drink them with milk, so I try to avoid them as much as possible.
- dried mango fruit: I ate quite a few at one time and the burning pain was considerably worse the following day.
- red cabbage (Blaukraut): burning stool and a very uncomfortable cramping chest pain a few hours after consumption
- tortilla: bloodshot eyes and burning pain. Probably the cabbage.
- bean with chili: I think it is mostly the chili as bean soup can make me better.
- apple + carrot + beetroot (raw and minced together): My mother thought it was a good idea to make me some vitamin bomb while I was ill with covid-19. Well this really made me even more ill. Actually I was half expecting this as I had somewhat recalled a similar experience from the past. Mainly caused an increase in gut issues.
- spaghetti with oregano: tomato sauce and oregano can separately induce POIS symptoms, but together they are even worse. Tomato sauce doesn’t have the temporary benefit I experience when eating raw tomato, but only the negative effects.
- kiwifruit: causes gut issues (increased burning pain), but other symptoms don’t really change, so it is simply bad, but not terribly.
- peas: I had problems on several occasion when I ate cooked peas. It can cause painful gut issues. French salad can make me really ill and peas certainly have a role in it.
- quality sweet red sparkling wine: I only drank about half deciliter as a formality, but it made me really ill the next day. It increased the burning pain considerably and induced a moderate chest inflammation.
- caramel: The home made version can induce severe diarrhea when consumed with milk. Interestingly though caramel candies themselves don’t seem to be that bad.
- gummy candies: only some of the products
- chicken soup: sometime no problems at other times evidently induces POIS. I mostly suspect the added pepper that is cooked into the soup making it alike to a chicken flavored pepper tea.
- cappuccino: developed a chest inflammation after drinking two cups from a vending machine.

In my experience if it gives a burning feeling or a red eye symptom or a morning ocular photophobia or enhanced blurriness than it is surely a POIS enhancing food.
Morning ocular photophobia can occur with normal acute POIS, but can be especially bad after some food. Photophobia has a slight relationship with bloodshot eyes and a certain one with light induced sneezing. The more serious cases can be accompanied with serious eye pain. This can also have a head-ache inducing effect.
An approximate intensity enhancing order would be apricot=sour cabbage > cherry = banana > apple > peach > strawberry

Based on FODMAP the polyol group may have to be considered, although I have good items on the red list and bad ones on the green list also.

Maybe list:
- pears seem to have a cleaning effect even if it creates a severe flatulence, but it can also make things worse if taken with another enhancing food. At once I had a very severe illness (POIS episode) when I ate pear, banana and grape together.
- tangerine: it seems to cause severe flatulence, but doesn't really have an effect on POIS, although it makes me a bit less foggy, but I rather avoid it. (In retrospect it could be good).
- watermelon: Can be both good and bad. If consumed in consideration it has a good effect, but too much can cause severe sometimes burning diarrhea. As of late I tried to eat the inner hard side of the shell as it supposedly contains citrullin. I found that it might be a little good, but needs further testing.
- grape: I am not sure. It sometimes make me feel much worse, while sometimes nothing happens. I still need to test this more. I seem to have a problem with raisin too, but mainly flatulence. (probably help - needs rechecking)
- egg barley (pastry): I have a suspicion that it can induce inflammation, but not confirmed. Also other pastry don't have any effect.
- tea: teas are very controversial. I haven't had the time to sort it all out. Some good quality black tea without anything added can surely help sore throat. I also consume medicinal teas, but usually mixed. Some tea can make me better, while others rather worse, but it is also not always evident. So far I think that lemon-balm actually helps.
- cheese: I am not sure as I only consume small amounts, but it doesn't seem to have an effect. One thing I found is that it can make me prone (not always, but seemingly more often) to nocturnal emission, which is quite bad itself. Maybe no wonder it is called an aphrodisiac.
- cauliflower: gives me a severe flatulence, but I don't think it actually does anything to POIS. (probably helps - needs rechecking)
- mushrooms: I am often ill of it (gut ache), but not always. I also don't think it is POIS related.
- chestnut: gut ache, not POIS I think
- household biscuit: gut-ache, not POIS related
- plum: It probably has a weak mixed effect. If I eat it raw I have a lot of flatulence which is often a good thing in regard of POIS, however it probably also induces the burning pain somehat like many other fruits, especially if it is not ripe enough. I don't usually eat it raw, but we make a lot of home-made plum jam and although this has no major effect on POIS at least it helps with gut motility, so rather safe to consume.

White list:
- spirits: I don't have much experience as I don't like them, but small amounts don't have an effect.
- sugar: At acute disease onset my energy craving is so enormous that I often eat a lot of sweet stuff. It might not be good for my health, but it is also a wonder I haven't developed diabetes yet.
- sunflower seed (raw) and its derivatives like oil and margarine doesn't do anything to POIS.
- potatoes
- rice: in itself not, although consuming it with cinnamon or paprika might have a slight enhancing effect. Maybe pectin is involved.
- corn
- cucumber: neither raw nor if pickled has an effect. If it is sour I feel worse, but I don't think it is a POIS effect.
- bean and lentils: although flatulence is not a good feeling at acute POIS onset, but they also contain tryptophan and they can seemingly shorten the acute state.
- meat: I haven't found any meat type that I am worse of, but I am not really fond of meat. I eat it if there is, but I can also do well without it. I also don't have a problem with sausages which makes me wonder about histamine.
It seems to me that I don't tolerate fat so well, as sometimes eating a bit of beacon can cause a slight, but prolonged (few hours) heartburn. The strange thing is that POIS or ejaculation for that matter can alleviate this problem. As I get very hungry after O, it seems to me that energy reserves are used up at an accelerated rate which also causes a kind of clearance even if a foggy hell is its substitution.
- ginger: First I was suspicious because of its burning taste, but I thought it helped a bit. Its positive effect became very clear when consumed it after (MACA+Cetirizine) as it gave a clear benefit.
- vegetable (root)
- radish
- lettuce
- rumex
- spinach
- pumpkin
- onion: raw and cooked, but I have a suspicion that raw onion can make me susceptible to tonsillitis. I had it every year for at least thrice with a duration of 1-3 weeks sometimes only 1 clear week between and I think I often ate raw onion before it happened. I wanted to verify this by stopping to eat it. Actually I haven't had it for more than a year now, but as coronavirus struck we also wear mask almost every time so it could be only that as well.
Actually I feel better from raw onion, but I somehow forgot about it as I have a somewhat paranoid fear of tonsilitis. Maybe I should pickle some red onions and see how it works.
- garlic: I didn't notice any effect, although I haven't really tested it extensively. Although I have a suspicion that garlic scent is more prolonged for me than others for the same amount consumed.
At a time someone brought us pickled garlic and it didn't cause this all permeating odor. Recently my mother got this bottle called apple cider vinegar fermented on garlic bed. Sometimes I add a little to my usual tea and it seems like it gives a real extra kick to it. Most probably because it is loaded with quercetin from both apple and garlic.
- eggs: I didn't notice any effect, although I don't eat it frequently.
- broccoli: it can make me feel better
- coconut: no effect
- raspberry: I don't think I have a problem with it or not perceptible.
- blueberry: I think I feel better because of it.
- honey-dew melon
- nut, hazel-nut
- lemon: It certainly helps reduce brain fog.
- orange: It helps with POIS.
- zucchini: I ate it a few times during last summer and I think it actually helped with POIS as I was always feeling a bit better on the following days.
- black radish: definitely helps a little and it is also cheap. My favorite vegetable for the winter season.
- hazelnut and chocolate cream (2nd grade): It doesn’t seem to effect POIS even if I eat a greater amount, however it can put a burden on the cardiovascular system (e.g. heart pain).
- potato salad is safe to consume
- carrot: I don’t think I have much problems with carrots. Eating a few cooked carrots doesn’t do anything really. However recently I also ate a carrot sauce and then developed a weaker lymphatic inflammation, so it may still cause some problems.
- beetroot: Sometimes I eat cooked or fried beetroot, but I don’t think I have a particular reaction to it. Recently I ate a whole raw beetroot and later I developed a loud tinnitus with the zipp-zipp sound. I was also testing Relora and drank a lot of coffee at the time, however on other days nothing similar happened with them, so it may have been caused by beetroot. I don’t think it caused any other issues though.
- high quality cocoa: weak mixed effects: sometimes it may cause some bloodshot eyes, however it seems to help with gut issues (reduce burning pain), although it may also cause some cramping stomach pain from time to time.
- maple syrup
- quality honey
- millet
- tapioca pudding
- Sweet potato: I don’t remember if I had ever eaten it previously in my life, so it was time to try it. At the first time I ate two serving in one day and I was kind of surprised that it was not only safe, but actually helped rather well with the gut inflammation problem. I also ate it on other two separate occasions and while the benefit was still there it wasn’t so distinct as that first time.
- Pure peanut cream without salt: I few times I ate it in great amounts, but still I couldn’t notice any adverse effects on POIS. Nonetheless it caused some cardiovascular issues (like blood vessel cramps), but the reason was evidently the great amount of fat and not the peanut specifically.
- Green coffee – I bought some green coffee grind and on one occasion I made a big serving of coffee.  This time it did not give me any significant reaction, though not even regular coffee gives me a bad reaction always. Well for now it appears safe, but I also see no clear benefit either over regular coffee and it also tastes rather plain.

- (Green) Mung bean: I cooked about 250 g beans by only adding salt and ate it in three portions along the day. Unfortunately my eye symptoms remained bad from the previous test. A few hours after each meal it seemed to have a very slight positive effect on the eyes, but otherwise it could not achieve any significant change. I can't say too much good about gut issues either. At least the burning pain was noticeably reduced, but the stool was also quite loose. It felt more like eating regular beans or lentils that help a little, but also cause a lot of flatulence. So it only has a weak effect. Interestingly mung beans are also a source of coumestrol.
- Adzuki bean: I ate two servings and based on the initial reaction I think it helps minimally, just like mung bean, however later I also ate some soybean enriched meat and that really messed me up, so this is only an estimation.
- Agave syrup: Another alternative sweetener with high fructose and a lower glycemic index, however higher caloric than sugar. The first time I took a bigger amount and eye symptoms actually appeared very slightly better. Well it clearly doesn't help much though, but at least appears to be safe.

Also of note that eating only from the white list won't make POIS disappear as I also had POIS with a clear bowel.
Another consideration that should be taken is that some foods may contain compounds with both good and bad effect.
This list is a good approximation, but I wouldn't say that everything is 100 % tested out. Recently I have gained so much new knowledge on POIS that I think I should retest everything and do a serious revaluation retrospectively and document everything before I forget it. This might also take years especially if I have to stop now working medicine in order to have a clear "foggy" view.
It is very important to note that I view POIS based on my personal theory and I see it subjectively.

It is rather strange that fermentation could take away the POIS enhancing capability of both apple and sweet pepper (paprika), but it can add it to cabbage. This may worth further investigation.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 02:53:29 PM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2021, 01:36:03 AM »
Complete medical background

Laboratory blood tests
The marked ones are highlighted. During the years the reference values also changed making unmarked values marked or the opposite way. Tests were mostly in the acute phase, although not all, still I have symptoms even in the chronic phase.
1990. 02. (Hydrocele sclerotisation): blood markers: HCT: 0.35, Hgb: 7.0 mmol/l, RBC: 3.9 T/l, WBC: 5.8 G/l, Thromb. 220 G/l, weight: 20 kg, blood pressure: 110/70 Hgmm, ESR: 10 mm/h, blood glucose: 6.0 mmol/l, Blood type "0" Rh neg., ECG: SR, centrum Alignment, Regular Curved, Serum-Na: 138 mmol/l, Se-K: 4.2 mmol/l, Se-CN: 3.8 mmol/l, Se-creat.: 55 umol/l, Se-bilir.: 12 umol/l, bleeding time: 2'14", clotting time: 5'22", urine pH: acidic, protein: neg., glucose: neg., acetone: neg., ubg: normal, sediment: 3-4,
2001. 07. Hgb: 147, WBC: 6.79, HCT: 0.44 (0.45-0.51), glucose: 5.3, Na: 139, Cl: 104, K: 5.0, KN: 4.4, ALT: 13 U/l (<60), AST: 17 U/l (<50), otherwise normal.
2004. 03. (Psychiatry 1.) RR: 120/80 P: 72, neutrophil: 0.48, monocyte: 0.11, eosinophil: 0.05, total bilirubin.: 17.4, otherwise normal.
2004. 09. (Hernitomia sec. Bassini ingu. l.d.): ALT: 17 U/l, AST: 23 U/l, total bilirubin: 27.1 umol/l (<17), WBC: 13.8 G/l, NEU: 11.80 g/l, NEU%: 0.86, LYM: 0.96 g/l, LYM%: 0.07, MONO: 0.98 g/l, MONO%: 0.07, EOS: 0.00 g/l, EOS%: 0.00, BASO: 0.05 g/l, BASO%: 0.00
2005. 07. (Psychiatry 2.) monocyte: 0.11, cholesterol: 5.5, triglyceride: 1.89, otherwise normal
2007. 12. (at a time of the regular chest inflammation, radiography and ECG were negative the same day): calcium: 2.35 mmol/l (2.1-2.6) ALT: 22 U/l, AST: 43 U/l, total bilirubin: 27.6 umol/l (<17), CPK: 1032 U/l (24-190), cholesterol: 5.1 mmol/l (3.9-5.2), LDL: 3.44 mmol/l (<3.36), HDL: 1.35 mmol/l (1.45-5.20), ESR: 6 mm/h (<20), reticulocytes: 0.008 (0.008-0.020). WBC: 6.65 G/l (4.0-10.0), neutrophil: 0.53 (0.50-0.70), lymphocyte: 0.37 (0.20-0.40), monocyte: 0.09 (0.03-0.10), eosinophil: 0.02 (0.01-0.04), basophil: 0.00 (<0.01), abs. neutrophil: 3.53 G/l, abs. lymphocyte: 2.44 G/l, abs. monocyte: 0.57 G/l, abs. eosinophil: 0.10 G/l, abs. basophil: 0.01 G/l, urine: specific gravity: 1025 (1001-1040), pH: 6.0 (4.5-7.8 ).
2010. 10. (during a case of sensory neuropathy): ALT: 8 U/l, AST: 12 U/l, total bilirubin: NA, CPK: 96 U/l, reticulocytes: 0.005 (0.008-0.020), neutrophil%: 56 (50-70), lymphocyte%: 35 (20-40), EOS%: 1 (1-4), CRP: 7.1 mg/l (<5.0), urine: NA, stool blood: negative
2012. 05. (a paid checkup during an acute phase): CRP: 2.4 mg/L (0.0-10.0), anti streptolysin: 53 IU/ml (0-200), WBC: 6.08 G/L (4.0-9.0), neutrophil%: 46 (50-70), lymphocyte%: 43.1 (25.0-40.0), monocyte%: 7.5 (0.0-8.0), eosinophil%: 3.0 (0.0-5.0), basophil%: 0.4 (0.0-1.0), abs. neutrophil: 2.80 G/L (1.80-6.30), abs. lymphocyte: 2.62 G/L (1.00-4.10), abs. monocyte: 0.46 G/L (0.00-0.70), abs. eosinophil: 0.18 G/L (0.00-0.40), abs. basophil: 0.02 G/L (0.00-0.10), urine: specific gravity: 1030g/l (1003-1029), pH: 6.0
2016. 02. (acute phase – around the time I developed two small lesions on the neck which are still present): ALT: 13 U/l, AST: 19 U/l, total bilirubin: 20.6 umol/l, WBC: 6.45 G/l, NEU: 43.0% (40.0-74.0), lymphocyte%: 44.6 (19-39), MONO%: 9.9 (3.0-10.0), EOS%: 2.3 (0.1-5.0), BASO%: 0.02 (0.1-2.0), NEU: 2.77 G/l (1.68-8.00), LYM: 2.88 G/l (0.84-4.32), MONO: 0.64 G/l (0.12-1.08), EOS: 0.15 G/l (0.04-0.54), abs. basophil: 0.02 G/l (0.04-0.21), RDW: 10.7 %CV (11.5-14.5), urine: specific gravity: 1020, pH: 5.0.
2018. 06. (acute phase) ALT: 11 U/l, AST: 17 U/l, total bilirubin: 22.7 umol/l (1.7-21.0), WBC: 5.16 G/l, NEU%: 41.9 (40.0-74.0), lymphocyte%: 43.9 (19.0-39.0), MONO%: 9.7 (3.0-10.0), EOS%: 3.9 (0.1-5.0), BASO%: 0.6 (0.1-2.0), NEU: 2.16 G/l, LYM: 2.27 G/l, MONO: 0.50 G/l, EOS: 0.20 G/l, abs. Basophil: 0.03 g/l (0.04-0.21), RDW: 10.9 %CV (11.5-14.5), urine: specific gravity: 1015, pH: 6.0, urine sediment: 12/view (<6)

Although I think I have some kind of sepsis it certainly doesn't show in liver function represented by ALT and AST.
The elevated total bilirubin is supposed to be due to my Gilbert-disease.
RDW is a parameter to describe the morphology of the red blood cell.
As an elevated RDW value is an indicator of chronic inflammation I simply can't comprehend how it could be low.  It is true that a lower RDW value was only present in the last two tests, so I am not sure if it is really in connection with my POIS which I had for more than 20 years.
Abs. Basophil was always around 0.01-0.03 G/l which is a low value and it only became marked as the reference interval increased to 0.04 G/l at the low end. This isn't very interesting in itself, but a high basophil count is in connection with chronic allergic diseases which raises some questions.
The hernia I suffered in 2004 was due to the fact I gained 20 kg in half a year even though I was very skinny before. The most probable culprit was Zyprexa and that is why it was switched to Zeldox. The intestine became blocked and I vomited a lot before the surgery so it is not indicative of POIS.
I had a few cases of two-sided kidney pain, but these symptoms disappear in a few days and it is almost impossible to get an appointment in such a short order. I was really "lucky" that I had a chest pain long enough that I managed to get it "diagnosed".

Physiological anamnesis:
Vaccinations in childhood: 1985: BCG, Di-Per-Te I/a, I/b, I/c, Polio, 1986: Polio, Morbilli 1987: Polio, 1988: Di-Per-Te II., 1990: Rubeola, 1997. 05. 09.: BCG – Mtx 5TU negative, Re BCG: "973", 1997. 09. 09.: Scar: positive. 1999-2000: H-B-VAX II (3 times), 2001: 5TU
1990. 03. – Op: Hydrocele sclerotisatio Testicle seems to be normal to the touch, some liquid can be felt. Inflammatory pattern is not present.
~1991 – chickenpox, also known as varicella
~1993 – mumps
~1996-1999 – correction for teeth
I had a few tick bites in childhood, but they were safely removed and I had never developed a skin pattern.
I had other insect bites as well such as ant, flea, wasp, bee, but there wasn't any allergic reactions to them only the local inflammation.
2004. 03-04. Hospitalization – Psychiatric department – severe POIS onset at the age of 17.
Abdominal and pelvic ultrasonography (USG): normal although the cavities of the left kidney are bigger and contain liquid. Therapy: Zyprexa, Rivotril, Zoloft.
Gastroscopy - negative
CT of brain: negative
2004. 09. Urology: Checkup: everything is normal.
2004. 09. Inguinal hernia  – Chest radiography: negative
2005. 07. Hospitalization at Psychiatric Dep. to set new medication. Therapy: Zeldox 40 mg, Rivotril, Imovane, Dicetel, Zoloft.
2007. 12. regular chest pain – It was one of the first cases and it became regular afterwards (one occasion per 2 weeks – 2 month, but actually very irregular in appearance and intensity): radiography and ECG were negative
2008. 12. Ophthalmology: Shortsightedness that slowly deteriorates. Eyes are normal, eye Ultrasound: negative
2009. 03. Dermatology: control examination with smaller problems.
2010. 07. Ophthalmology: Normal findings.
2010. 10. Abdominal USG: negative
2010. 10. Spinal radioscopy 1: Dorsal kyphosis is standard. Small degree left convex scoliosis is seen. The angle of the lumbar and the sacrum is pronounced. Pronounced right convex scoliosis is seen.
LV rests low, the LS gap is narrower, LV backside arc is slightly open.
2010. 11. Proctology: Mild dermatitis, otherwise normal.
2010. 11. Gastroenterology: consultation – diagnosis: dyspepsia, IBS without diarrhea (Refluxon 30 mg, Dicetel 50 mg)
2011. 02. Thyroid examination - negative – SH: 1.81 uIU/ml (0.35 – 4.94).
2011. 04. Gastroenterology: negative partial colonoscopy.
2011. 04. Irrigoscopy with double contrast: polypus in the right flexure? - Inadequate preparation!
2011. 06. Gastroenterology: Successful endoscopy with negative result.
2011. 06. Parasite test 1 (stool sample): Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2011. 06. Bacteriology test (stool sample) 1: Aside from normal E.coli count Klebsiella sp. was in great number. Pathogenic role is in question.
2011. 07. Bacteriology test 2: Normal E.coli were not present altogether (I clearly remember that I had an O the day before! Most of the bacteriological tests were in the acute phase, but I also had normal findings in such cases even though the burning feeling was usually present).
2011. 08. Bacteriology test 3: Normal flora is present in very small number. Aside from normal E.coli count Klebsiella sp. was in great number. Dysbacteriosis?
2011. 09. Bacteriology test 4: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present. (Normal findings.)
2011. 11. imlaat autoantibodies: EMA IgA negative, EMA IgG negative, Transglea IgA: 1.2 U/ml (0.0-5.0), GSE serology negative (Gluten intolerance)
2012. 01. Lactose intolerance H2 breath test negative. I didn’t have a diarrhea, but lactulose still induced a heavy burning feeling when I went home. Lactase ensyme slightly helps in reducing the depression felt after eating. However milk actually helps to reduce the negative effects of coffee.
2012. 01. Bacteriology test 5: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present. (Normal findings.)
2012. 01. Parasite test 2: Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2012. 02. Dermatology: control examination.
2012. 03. Parasite test 3: Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2012. 04. Parasite test 4: Helminth identification: negative
2012. 06. Ophthalmology – Everything is as usual. USG of the eyes due to floaters: negative
2012. 08. Bacteriology test 6: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present also Salmonella Typhi negative, Salmonella Paratyphi negative. (Normal findings.)
2013. 02. Immunochemistry: sTSH: 4.080 mU/L (0.300-4.200 mU/L), FT4: 16.1 pmol/L (12.0-22.0 pmol/L), FT3: 5.9 pmol/L (2.4-6.3 pmol/L)
2013. 06. Otorhinolaryngology: Ear inflammation
2014. 04. Spinal radioscopy 2: Cervical rib can't be seen. The arc of the cervical lordosis is straightened. Height of the centrum is normal. Lamellas are smooth. Margins are intact. Cartilage gaps are not tighter. (Sensory neuropathy)
2014. 06. Reumathology: Dorsalgia, uncategorized (I had sensory neuropathy!)
2015. 08. Otorhinolaryngology: On the backside of the neck I developed two smaller lymph nodes on both sides that once or twice a year can get inflamed. They said it is not their department.
2015. 08. Dermatology: They couldn't do anything with it. They said to be on the lookout if it gets worse, but it hasn't so far fortunately.
2016. 11. USG: normal kidney, testicle USG: bilaterally normal echo structure of the testicles and epididymis.
2016. 12. Urology: manual prostate examination: normal, urine: normal – bacteria or fungi are not present. Uroflow: unsuccesful.
2018. 08. 14. Abdominal USG: negative (I had a constant abdominal discomfort for about three years, but one of the supplements made it disappear although I am not sure which.)
2018. 10. Otorhinolaryngology: Control
2019 spring:  The local Rare Disease Department: The professor have never heard about POIS, but checked on the net and confirmed. However he told me that he can't do anything as it is an andrological disease and not for his department.
2019 spring: Local Andrology: The doctor had heard about POIS, but he probably didn't know much. He asked me what I wanted, but I was not prepared for the question. In retrospect I should have asked for a hormonal screening. Nevertheless he told me they can't really do anything and I should seek help at the capital. Well I planned to go, but I am not very mobile and then came the pandemic so I couldn't since then.
2019. 04. (chronic phase) Parasite test 5: Protozoan negative, helminth egg negative.
2019. 04. (chronic phase) Bacteriology test 7: Salmonella, Shigella, E.coli O124, Yersinia enterocolitica and Campylobacter were not present. (Normal finding.)

Psychological anamnesis:
I took every medication regularly even when I didn't believe in their effectiveness. Unfortunately I hadn't documented the effects of the medication at the time and can't really remember much about the details.
2003. 12. It all started with a peculiar OCD onset that was driven by panic.
2004. 01. fluvoxamine [SSRI] (Fevarin 50 mg) – Based on the medical documentation I felt somewhat better from this.
2004. 03. paroxetine [SSRI] (Rexetin 20 mg) – I think I didn't take this or only a few as I had to go to the hospital (voluntarily of course) and there they gave me a lot of other pills.
2004. 03. olanzapine (Zyprexa 5 mg x 1), sertraline [SSRI] (Zoloft x 1), clonazepam [benzodiazepin] (Rivotril 0.5 mg x 3)
Zyprexa, Zeldox: In retrospect I don't believe they did much good to me.  I shouldn't had taken Rivotril for such a long time, but it was the only thing that could manage my panic. I don't remember every detail, but it certainly enhanced my mental depression and made me even more forgetful. Actually it was for the best because it made me so ill that I couldn't concentrate on my panic.
Taking Zyprexa led me to gain 20 kg in half a year and it resulted in an almost fatal hernia with a blockage. Thanks to surgery I survived. It was a "real experience" when the doctor tried to feel out the position of my intestines through the testicle.
2005. Zyprexa –> ziprazidon Zeldox 40 mg
Zoloft worked really well, but I only discovered it after I stopped taking Zyprexa. Zoloft could shorten my POIS days, but it never occurred to me to time it to O. I only took it as I was told to.
2007. 01. Zeldox 40 mg, Rivotril 0.5 mg 3 x 1, Zoloft ? Sertwin 50 mg, then 100 mg.
Zoloft worked really well, but I didn't have any income at the time so I wanted to switch to a cheaper medication.
I was in the acute phase of POIS when I had no Zoloft medication left and that is when I developed a serotonin deprivation syndrome.  I had never felt so well in the previous years so it struck me quite profoundly. My mind worked so well compared to when I feel like I am a dead weight in a dead body. I had some pain and a slightly bloody stool as a side effect and no burning feeling at all. Unfortunately symptoms reappeared in the following days and POIS reestablished itself.
I tried to tell at the psychiatry that this was something important, but they didn't even document this. Well I can hardly blame them as why should they had cared about an imaginary disease that disappeared for a short time due to a regular withdrawal symptom.
2007. 08. Zeldox 40 mg, Rivotril 0.5 mg 3 x 1, sertraline (Sertwin 100 mg) (based on the documentation I was agitated, but this could had been a life issue) –> citalopram [SSRI] (Citagen 20 mg): my mood was better from this
2008. 02. Zeldox, Rivotril, Citagen ? tiaprid (Tiapridal 100 mg) 3 x half pill: First I felt better, but later it enhanced my OCD.
2008. 03. Zeldox, Rivotril, Tiapridal ? Citagen 20 mg
2009. 01. Rivotril 0,5 mg x 3, Citagen 20 mg, Zeldox –> clozapin (Leponex 25 mg) Morning: half + Evening: one and a half.
Stopping Zeldox was especially hard. Its withdrawal symptom was that I couldn't sleep for a month.
Well technically I slept, but it was like I shut my eyes then opened it a moment later to realize that it was morning. At other times it felt like a restless half-sleep/awake. Even though I slept I didn't feel rested. After a few weeks the tiredness accumulated and I felt like I was going to die if I don't take Zeldox again. Fortunately there came a day when my sleeping became a bit more restful and it got better with every day.
2009. 02. Rivotril + Citalopram, Leponex. I couldn't take Leponex as it hypotonised me.
2009. 10. Rivotril + Citalopram (I took it in a smaller dose as it made me tired, but it might had been Rivotril actually –> venlafaxin [SNRI] (Velaxin 75 mg Retard)
2009. 11. Rivotril + Venlafaxin Sandoz 150 mg Retard (I didn't report any side effects and my mood was quite good.)
My POIS wasn't cured otherwise I would have reported it and so the doctor kept switching the medication so that we might find a better one. I also forgot about it as I was not checking the papers and only recently realized that it could be worth to recheck it and probably other SNRIs as well.
My OCD also resolved around 2010, but I don't exactly remember when. It was probably due to a resignation towards panic to which I got attenuated. However I also developed a kind of profound self loathing. This hate was not directed towards my mind, but rather my body. I think this is why I developed a kind of pseudoschizophrenia where I felt a profound alienation from my body, while I simply couldn't blame my mind for it. Nevertheless I have never had any suicidal thoughts.
2010. 02. Venlafaxin  –> quetiapine (Seroquel Xr 200 mg retard) – At first I felt myself better, but later I had enhanced anxiety. I said my thinking was better, but the doctor considered it too vivid.
2010. 03. Rivotril + Seroquel Xr 300 mg retard – As I remember it made me sleep 10+ hours daily (at times even 15 hours) and I still felt sleepy all the time. It is possible that sleeping a lot had a good effect on my POIS as my body was recuperating more. However I practically had no life left besides sleeping.
2010. 05. Rivotril + Seroquel –> quetiapine (Nantarid 25 mg) 2x1+ paroxetine (Parogen 20 mg)
I didn't take any of these as this was the point I got fed up of antipsychotics and decided to stop them altogether.
2011. 04. I went to the doctor for control, but I only took Rivotril in a small dosage.
2011. 09. I told the doctor that I wanted to stop Rivotril as well.
It may sound hard to believe, but it was really hard to stop with the last pill. I had to cut up the 0.5 mg pill and taking one eight less each day. I still had withdrawal symptoms like feeling unwell, sleeping badly and strange pain effects. For a time after this I felt really good as the light gain a new shine and I was feeling a bit euphoric.
2013. 02. I was at the hospital for a psychological checkup. My physiological symptoms were not considered as I had no proof to back up anything. I also couldn't masturbate at the time so I actually felt better. The final diagnosis was schizophrenia although the doctor said I was an especially difficult case and they discussed my case a lot. They had a hard time deciding as some of my symptoms were very typical of schizophrenia while other were totally not.
They also gave me some pills while I was in: klomipramin (Anafranil Sr 75 mg retard) and amisulprid (Amisulprid-Ratiopharm 200 mg). I don't really know what amisulprid does as I only continued to take Anafranil when I came out. Anafranil greatly reduced my sexual desire. When I masturbated I had a really hard time achieving orgasm, but when I finally managed POIS came in full force.
I also stopped taking it and only went for control to the psychiatry. Even then I usually only talked with the assistant about my daily problems for a few minutes, but I refused medication. A few years ago my doctor retired and I didn't want to explain everything again to a new doctor so I simply stopped going.
In the last few years I was fixed on repaying my tuition debt and couldn't spend on supplements. Actually I thought it was futile and doctors and family confirmed this. I haven't even tried to find the disease as I thought I was the only one who had such a problem on the whole world.

Alcoholic probe: As POIS somewhat feels like having a hang-over I thought that it may show something, however it certainly didn't.
Stool pH was 8, semen pH was 8.
11 component urinary rapid test: pH is usually around 5-6. Specific gravity is always a bright yellow which is the highest value (1030) according to the test. Ascorbic acid is somewhat elevated when I do a lot of physical work, but this is supposed to be normal. The other parameters that are always negative: urobilinogen, glucose, bilirubin, ketones, blood, protein, nitrite, leukocytes.
The rapid test for Clostridium difficile toxin A and B from stool sample proved to be negative (2019).
« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 10:13:45 PM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2021, 02:18:42 AM »
Hi Progecitor!

Thanks for your great documentation! I have an almost identical symptom-history. I will take some time to analyse it. I'm planning to do a organ/symptom/analyse value list that helps us understand what organ is causing each symptom. I belive that the POIS related inflammation (caused by some hormonal inbalance) is comproimising organs in the whole body - specifically organs that has a high blood flow: blood vessels, heart, liver, kidney, brain and intestines. This explains why we experience so many diffrent symptoms.

Each organ gives it own symptom when function is decreased (or in chain reactions). Depending on what organ is the weakest link the symptoms appears diffrently on diffrent people. Some examples:

  • Kidney -> Low blood pressure, POTS, headache, varicose veins, slow intestines/constipation. I'm staring to belive the kidneys might be the most important organs relating to POIS symptoms since they are regulating the blood pressure - an adequate blood supply is everything for a good health
  • Liver/gall bladder - > Acne, varicose veins, yellowish stools, headache, blood pooling, thick blood, liver spots, low bilirubin levels and alcohol sensitivity.
  • Intestines - > Bloating, gas, candida, leaky gut, skin issues, coated tounge which leads to vitamin deficiency, advanced hormonal imblances, SIBO, auto-immune disorders (that cause damage on the same organ as POIS inflammation) and headache
  • Brain -> Headache, depression, no motivation and a long list of symptoms because of decreased function in hypothalamus/pitutary
  • Thyroid -> Temperature regulation, hotflash, difficulty sleeping, muscle weakness, hyperactivity.
  • Adrenal -> Cortisol excess followed by cortisol decline -> inflammation, testosterone deficiency. Cushing's syndrome, Addison's disease.
  • CNS (Central Nervous System) - > tingeling, difficult to breath, sudden urge to urinate
  • Blood vessels/blood - > varicose veins, blood pooling (thick blood) because of clumping platelets
  • Gonads  -> Testosterone deficiency, slow healing process, aggregated inflammation
When the intestinal function is damaged it will in time lead to similar symptoms as POIS, because the process is the same: A leaky gut will leak substances into the blood stream and when those substances attach to organs the immune system will send lymphocyes to the site and cause inflammation. But instead of inflammatory hormones and hormonal break down products, this inflammation is caused by substances iike proteins, bacterias, fungus etcetera that should not normally escape from the walls of the intestines. 

This came clear to me as I fixed my acne issue after doing a liver cleanse (I dont get as severe acne after POIS now). I still get the other symptoms on POIS, but not so much the liver related, since the liver is now somewhat restored (with nutrition/detox). On POIS the liver might be so inflamed that might be working on only 5-30% of its normal rate (this is not easy to analyse due to the complexity of the livers detoxification stages, the stage 1 detoxificaiton pathway might work, but the path 2 pathway might halt. This leads to accumulated toxins in the whole body (headache). Some hormonal breakdown products are 10 times more toxic/inflammatry then the hormones itself. A compromised liver is very damaging for your health in th elong run, however the liver has a tremendously capability to heal, even in a very bad stage.

With this view it might be more easy to plan mesures for the restoration phase. But you cant scoop water from a sinking ship forever. Although restoration is essential for the healing process the cause of POIS still must be solved. The main measure would be stress management and restraining from orgasm for at least a year. I get into more detail in my info below.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 06:11:47 AM by BoneBroth »


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2021, 02:29:15 PM »
A list of the supplements, herbal teas, exotic spices and medications that have worked so far.
I tried to make an approximate intensity comparison, however it is not necessarily correct. The order from left to right also represents a subjective scale. I may reevaluate some of them with more testing.
Please don't consider the order in the average and weak list as it would take years of rigorous testing to provide a more accurate list. The ones that I put in the good category have a noticeable effect, while the ones I put in the best have a considerable positive effect on symptoms.
It is important to note that when I talk about a weak or moderate reduction in POIS it usually means that they don't actually reduce depression or bloodshot eyes, but rather that they ameliorate the burning pain and as such can probably prevent symptom aggravation, which in a way is a positive effect in itself. I could say they have a general anti-inflammatory effect, but I am not sure if this was a correct term as even POIS seems to have a kind of anti-inflammatory property.
If anyone wanted to check if he or maybe she has a similar POIS as mine, I would first recommend trying MACA and saffron as they have a considerable positive effect without any major side effects.

Recently I had to shorten the tests even further as I feel like I am getting nowhere in my life even though I have already found quite a few good remedies. "Unfortunately" I became a bit addicted to buying new stuff and the shelves are getting clogged up faster than I can remove the items. Making the tests shorter also makes them even less reliable. Although if something works really well, then it is apparent from the first day most of the time, however if something is only a little beneficial it is much harder to estimate the exact efficacy. I would still recommend supplements up from the moderate category as at least some of them should provide a noticeable benefit to others as well. I only wish I could test some prescription drugs as well, so that a correlation to other cases would be easier.

Rd = Recommended dosage per day
se: considerable side effects

The best: lucerne (alfalfa) (se?), saffron, MACA extract capsules (yellow), Ecdysterone, Mexican Wild Yam Root (se), Resveratrol (Polygonum cuspidatum), Diosgenin (wild yam root), licorice (se), drotaverine (No-Spa), astaxanthin + vit. E, lungwort tea (Pulmonaria officinalis), L-Tryptophan (se), yellow maca powder, Damiana, Catuaba bark, Giloy (Guduchi), Suma, Yerba mate, lycopene + vit. E, alfalfa powder (se), charcoal capsules (se), Rumalaya forte, Maca extract, Hericium extract, Turkesterone, Niacin, Lycopene

The good: Medicinal mushroom mix (se), seven mushroom mix, Tongkat Ali, Lion’s mane, Tribulus terrestris, Phosphatidylserine, L-Theanine, Milk thistle-artichoke-dandelion capsules, milk thistle (sylimarin) oil, Ginkgo Biloba, Reishi Ganoderma powder, Fennel seed caps, Black poplar tincture, Resveratrol+Inulin, Myricetin, Maca 20:1 extract, Masticha original, Chios Mastiha lozenges, Berberine, Red rice yeast extract, Echinacea + Beta glucan, Chaga, Guggul, SNRI (Venlafaxine), SSRIs (serotonin deprivation syndrome due to Zoloft was better), Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan (Maitake), Cordyceps, mangosteen, Muira Puama, Diosmin + Hesperidin, Turkey tail, Astaxanthin Forte, Black Cohosh, Cat’s claw, Perilla, Beta-sitosterol, Andrographis, diatomaceous earth, lavender tea, raspberry leaves tea, White horehound tea, Arjuna, Sarsaparilla root (se), Pure oregano oil, Saffron + lycopene (se?), Huanarpo macho, Chuchuhuasi, Hercampuri, Huminiqum (se?), Chasteberry tea, MACA (Nowfoods), Urinary tract support tincture, Cistanche, Kola Nut-Catuaba-Guarana, Ipriflavone complex, Brazilian bee propolis trio, Houttuynia, Chrysanthemum tea, Greater burdock root tea, D,L-Phenylalanine, King trumpet mushroom, Fadogia agrestis, Male Vascular Sexual Support/Black Ginger, Ginseng complex for man

Moderately beneficial: niacinamide (Vitamin B3), Echinacea drops, melatonin, ibuprofen, tea tree oil, Ashwagandha, papaya pills, lansoprazole (Refluxon), Gotu Kola, bitter gourd, Garcinia cambogia, Nutrisan RespiCalm, Vitamin C-1000+, safflower oil, Triphala, Chinese skullcap, Indole-3-carbinol, Magnolia bark, Coenzyme Q10 Forte, Relora, Eucommia Bark, Herbal pause, red grape skin powder, Pterostilbene, Boswellia serrata (se), Ginseng Royal Jelly, Horny goat tincture, Camu-camu, Boron, Aloe vera, goldenrod tea, willow bark tea, Deep-red grape pure fresh juice, Jujube, Pot marigold tea, Allegra, Cetirizine, Autophagy renew (luteolin+piperlongumin), Panax ginseng, Butea superba root, Celery parsley seed oil, Bio-Fisetin, Lotus seed tea, Argan oil, Baobab powder, Fennel seed tea, Citrulline malate, Geranium, Musta/Nut Grass, Danshen, CBD oil, Shankhpushpi, African Mango, Pangdahai tea, Saffron extract caps, Graviola/Soursop, Health speedwell tea, Sweet woodruff tea, Dwarf everlast tea, Sweet basil tea, Blessed thistle tea, Couch Grass tea, Policosanol, White mulberry, Phosphatidylcholine, Common knotgrass tea, Common verbena tea, Yellow gentian tea, Walnuts, Septilin, Grapefruit seed, Zhu Ling Mushroom, Common thyme tea, Guarana, Stephania, Provence wild flowers blend, Butterbur (se), (American) Ginseng, Ribwort plantain tea, Herb Robert tea, Lovage root tea, DMAE, Yellow dock root, Oak bark tea, Coltsfoot leaf tea (se), Cryptolepis tincture, Rehmannia Six Combination, Cognitex Elite, Jing formula, Ground milk thistle seeds, Colloidal silver, SAM-e, R-lipoic acid, generic propolis, Monolaurin, Suppository for prostatitis, Lactoferrin powder, Milk thistle extract, Myo-inositol powder, Loperamide

The weak (and weak-moderate): chamomile extract capsule, ginger, lemon balm tea, linden tea (Tilia), chamomile tea, soy lecithin, Sulforaphan, NAC, Vitamin B12, Vitamin B6 (se), GABA, chia seeds, black tea, artichoke tea, common centaury tea, Galega tea, anise tea (se), rosemary tea, safflower spice tea, hops tea, Physalis, grape seed extract, fenugreek, Naproxen, Testosterol 250, charcoal pills, magnesium, beta-sitosterol (se), red clover, garlic gelcapsules, spirulina, Shatavari, jasmine infused green tea, nutmeg, Pygeum, passionflower, Creatine HCl (se), Cascara sagrada, Bacopa, Artemizia, Yohimbe, selenium, alpha lipoic acid (ALA), coenzyme Q10, flaxseed/linseed oil, feverfew tincture, siberian ginseng, Zembrin - Kanna (se),  inositol, DHM, amla, red maca, black maca, asafoetida (se), Wuweizi, spermidine, green barley powder (se), Quercetin+Rhodiola rosea+galangal combo, Ceylon cinnamon, noni fruit, wheat grass powder, cardamom, black cumin, bakuchi, juniper berries, eyebright tea, Forskolin, fish oil (se), aronia, glycine, simethicone, Rhubarb, Resveratrol (yeast fermented), hyaluronic acid, fermented black garlic, aged fermented black garlic, cedar oil, Sea kelp, Lithium orotate, Goji berry, Jiaogulan tea, Lyophilized Shiitake slices, Sea-buckthorn leaves tea, Pau D’Arco, MSM, Dong quai, Calcium pyruvate, Calcium D-Glucarate, Pulsatilla 30CH, Slippery Elm, Pine Bark, Quinoa, Corn silk tea, Pomegranate, Oat straw, Devil’s tongue (glucomannan), Caprylic acid, Astragalus, Allerdin, Siberian fir needle oil, Neem powder, KETO DHEA (se), fructose, Bladderwrack, Shaggy mane, Butcher’s broom, Mullein tea, Spearmint tea, Bergamot, Smallflower hairy willowherb tea, Horsemint tea, Yellow toadflax tea, Claritin, Rooibos tea, Marshmallow root tea, Lucuma, Almond oil, Sesame oil, Fenugreek extract, Olive oil (pomace), Omega-3 fish oil, Corn germ oil, Mesquite, Shiitake powder, Ajwain, Coriander seeds, Caraway, Guinea grains, Voatsiperifery pepper, canned Jackfruit, Sumac, BCAA, Punarnava, St John’s Wort tea, L-Lysine, Lyophilized black wood ear, Long pepper, Sun mushroom, Woad root tea, Bamboo shoot, Quercetin caps,  Allspice, Clove, Erythritol, Chervil, Motherwort, Monk fruit tea, L-Dopa, chocolate pepper, Rose petal tea, Jasmine petal tea, sage tea, Indian Coleus, Mistletoe tea, Chives, Chicory root tea, Absinthe wormwood tea, Peppermint tea, Chancapiedra, Hyssop tea, Black summer truffle, Yucca, Common mugwort tea, Sacha Inchi oil, Shilajit, Chickweed tea, Sweet flag tea, Lactobacillus plantarum, Red Pu-Erh tea, Snow hundred beauty tea, Sencha tea, Common mallow tea, White Mustard seeds, Stoneroot, Kidney bean pod tea, Modulen IBD, Manunka propolis, Kalory Emergency 1000, Folic acid + Thiamine, Diclofenac Potassium, Hoodia, Shark cartilage, PQQ, Chlorella, Molybdenum, Buchu leaf, Common agrimony tea, Wild strawberry leaves tea, Common sorrel tea, Blackthorn flower tea, Ambroxol, Valeriana root, Schizandra tincture, Desmodium, Green coffee, Wild herbs spice blend, Levocetirizine, Chitosan, Celeriac pills, L-ornithine (se), Bavarian Herbal Bitters, Genius sleep aid, Trehalose, Selenium, Meadowsweet tea, Common fumitory tea, Silverweed tea, Chios gum mastic, Moringa, Cubeb, Nettle leaf tea, White dead nettle tea, Elecampane tea, Shepherd's purse tea, Stinging nettle root tea, Coconut flower/blossom sugar, Rutin + Vitamin C pills, Dill seeds tea, Arrowroot flour, Gymnema Sylvestre/Gurmar, Hemp-agrimony tea, Bear’s garlic leaf tea, Taurine and apigenin complex, Olive leaf extract, Colostrum, HMB, Amaranth seeds, D.A.A., Arginine A.K.G., Bilberry leaf tea, Common club moss tea, Blackberry leaf tea, Summer savory (Satureja) tea, Blue fenugreek, Horsetail caps and tea, Pantothenic acid, Black sesame seeds, Xanthan gum, Silver birch leaf tea, Agar-agar powder, Vinpocetine, Purslane, Macadamia nuts, Evening primrose seeds, Cashew nuts, Lemon verbena tea, Pecan nuts, Ironwort/mountain tea, Pellitory/bertram, Guar gum, Digestion herbal blend, Inulin powder, Hepafix, Capers, Powdered blond plantain husks, Pectin, Couch grass 2, Garden cress sprout, Walnut leaf tea, Dimenhydrinate, Tamsulosin, Glutathione, Glutathione complex, Oyster mushroom extract, Shark liver oil complex, Shark liver oil, Oregano capsules, Apple cider vinegar, Royal Jelly, Lion’s mane powder, Cordyceps extract, Catalase, Betaine HCL, Thyme and propolis, Quercetin Plus

Mixed effects on POIS or ineffective: zinc (se), chasteberry (Vitex agnus-castus) (se), matcha powder tea, green tea capsules, CLA, evening primrose oil, Aspirin (se), cod fish oil (DHA/EPA) (se), acai berry, Fo-ti (Polygonum multiflorum), beta alanine, oregano, Tricolor Maca, sodium butyrate, Tyrosine, Cassia cinnamon, DIM complex (+phosphatidyl choline), Turmeric, cascara (coffee cherry fruit) tea, Saw palmetto, Lady's mantle tea, Iceland moss tea, Maqui, Tonka Bean, Xylitol, Tamarind, coffee, White kidney bean extract, Glucuronolactone, Celery seed, Common melilot, Pine pollen, Tarragon/estragon, Ultimate Women’s Intimate Performance, Copper Glycinate, Dill plant, L-Glutamine, L-Leucine, Mirtazapin, China rubra 30CH, Yarrows tea, Arabian seven spice blend, Turmeric powder, Herbal Gallbladder care

The bad:
biotin (Vitamin B7), clonazepam (Rivotril), paracetamol, taurine, turmeric, black pepper, lemongrass tea, sage tea, Kudzu, Pregnenolone, canola oil, synephrine, Satureja tea, Choline-chloride, lactulose, Robinia white flower tea, Chicory coffee, Rock salt with herbs, Sodium benzoate

I will add more details later, but most of the information can be found in my research thread:

Or the more recent research threads:
A model for metabolic syndrome:
The estrogen balance and 3 beta adiol:
Senescence and SASP
« Last Edit: February 10, 2024, 02:29:17 PM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2021, 10:21:48 AM »

Licorice - Glycyrrhiza glabra [400 mg per capsule from which 16 mg is glycyrrhetinic acid]:
I had one capsule the previous morning and one in the morning. About 8 hours later I took another one and 3 hours later I had an O. Right after it I took another one (18 h). So on that day I took 1200 mg of licorice of which 48 mg was glycyrrhetinic acid.
It reduced POIS somewhat at its onset, but I still had symptoms like weakly bloodshot eyes. I measured it several times and my blood pressure didn't seem to change, but I had other side-effects. In the first hours I felt transient slight pain sensations all over the body and developed some mild headache or discomfort, although it is hard to tell if the latter was not due to POIS itself. Another worrisome symptom was a recurring weak heart ache or cramping that I felt from time to time even in the next morning. I think licorice only has side-effects at first. It was around the time I went to bed when I began to feel myself somewhat better. It was 8 hours after I took the second capsule and I mean the first one in the afternoon. I got up after three hours of sleep to take a leak and I definitely felt better at the time. In the morning I generally felt better, but I still had a weak level of POIS. I still had some depression, but the eyes were relatively well. The nodules in the breast were moderately reduced. The burning feeling noticeably reduced and the quality of the stool was better. The best was that I could walk relatively easily without feeling the fatigue-like burden on my muscles. So licorice really has a beneficial effect on my POIS, but its side-effects prevent me from using a higher dose.
Licorice also contains phytoestrogens, so I am not even sure if its beneficial effects are really due to glycyrrhetinic acid.

Chamomile extract capsule: 1 capsule containing 250 mg chamomile extract with 2.5 mg apigenin.
1 capsule doesn't seem to do anything noticeable, however consuming 2 x 2 capsules with a few hours of difference surely has a weak-moderate effect on the burning pain and thus somewhat reduces all POIS symptoms. So all in all it was 1000 mg chamomile extract containing 10 mg apigenin. By the way it was also equivalent with 10 g chamomile flower. The medicinal mushroom capsule I mentioned previously contained 9 mg apigenin, but it had a better effect, so apigenin really seems to help, but it is better if it is combined with other things as well.

Turmeric: I tried it three times by consuming about one tablespoon cooking grade turmeric powder mixed in some water. It doesn't have any rapid effect, but every time I had bloodshot eyes in the next morning and the burning sensation was also enhanced. On the last occasion I also added some black pepper and everything was about the same. I have tried to avoid black pepper for years as I have already suspected it to be bad for my POIS. Still I need to test it a bit further and maybe with higher doses for a definite conclusion.

Chasteberry [400 mg per capsule]: It is supposed to increase progesteron in women. Well it may not do so in man. The first time I took one it unexpectedly induced a weak-moderate ass muscle inflammation (probably not a POIS symptom), but this disappeared in a few hours (after consumption from 2 o 6 hours). At another day I took one in the morning and one in the afternoon. However this kind of inflammation only appeared very weakly.
In regard of POIS symptoms it didn't reduce depression and I still had bloodshot eyes. It may have reduced the burning feeling a bit, but I am not really sure without a more extensive testing. Another thing I noticed was a weak bulging of some blood vessels a few hours after consumption, however blood pressure was alright. All-in-all I could also say that it had practically no effect.
The product doesn't specify what part of the plant was used, but it is probably the leaves or the fruit. The seeds are sold separately and they are said to be antiaphrodisiac, so I will have to test them too.

Melatonin: I have only tested a lower dose (2 mg) so far. It makes me somewhat sleepy, but this passes after a short time. There are no rapid effects, but it can somewhat reduce the burning feeling. I will try higher doses, but I don't want to mess up the circadian rhythm. It may serve well in an evening stack, especially if I wanted to do "sex" in the morning.

Anise tea [about 1 liter]: As it is another estrogen receptor modulator I thought it could be interesting to test. It doesn’t seem like it does anything particular to my POIS symptoms, however it can give me a headache. Could this be something similar as what I experienced with Kudzu?

Galega/goat's-rue/French lilac tea (Galega officinalis) [about 1 liter]: It raised my interest as it is another traditional antidiabetic tea and it contains some compounds that formed the basis for the development for metformin. I expected it to potentially modulate POIS, however this proved to be in vain. It seems to have some beneficial effect on POIS, however this effect is quite subdued.

Garlic pills [10 mg per gelcapsule]: I took garlic capsules from the morning with 3-4 hours of difference. It definitely reduces the burning feeling moderately. After taking the third I had an O two and a half hour later, after which I took another garlic capsule and three hours later a last one before going to sleep. When I got up in the middle of the night to take a leak I also took a garlic capsule. This way garlic couldn't definitely prevent POIS as I still had bloodshot eyes, however besides the reduced burning sensation I had reduced rhinitis. In the morning I felt that I had more energy. So garlic is definitely helpful, however on its own it is not an adequate treatment.

CLA [2000 mg per gelcapsule]: It has some effect on POIS, but its quality seems to be mixed and weak, so it doesn't really do anything to symptoms or only weakly enhances POIS. Nevertheless it is not a supplement I am going to incorporate in my regime.

Evening primrose oil [500 mg per gelcapsule of which 45 mg is gamma-linolenic acid]: It has mixed effects just like CLA. I took four capsules in a day. Although primrose oil can reduce the burning pain, it doesn't make a real difference. It also induces bloodshot eyes almost every time I take it, which is a no good for me. 

Ayurveda tea: The most indicated ingredients are Withania somnifera and Centella asiatica, but it also contains cymbopogon citratus, glycyrrhiza glabra, pterocarpus marsupium, zingeber officinale, ocimum sanctum, cinnamomum tamala, cinnamomum zeylanicum. I had some negative experience with it. I only drank it three times, but as I remember it gave me a headache every time. I even developed a chest inflammation after one occasion, although it was possibly not due to the tea. Due to this I was a bit skeptical about Ashwagandha and Gotu Kola.

Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) [240 mg per capsule of which 12 mg is Withanolid]: I took one capsule in the morning and one another five hours later. I took a third one six hours later and had an O two and a half hours after that. To my wonder this partially managed to prevent POIS onset as I didn't really develop bloodshot eyes and the burning sensation was also reduced. In the morning I had a somewhat reduced fatigue and depression, however I had bloodshot eyes and the burning pain was moderate. After testing it some more I realize that at first I overestimated Ashwagandha’s benefit as it didn't prove to be that effective on acute days. At best it may be as good as berberine, however I need to take at least four capsules for this and there could be adverse side-effects if I used such an amount regularly.

Gotu Kola (Centella asiatica aerial parts) [435 mg per capsule]: Another suspicious one that proved to the contrary. I took one in the morning then another in the afternoon and a third one in the evening after which I had an O one hour later. I didn't develop bloodshot eyes right after O, but I had some cramping intestinal pain. In the morning I generally felt somewhat better, than I would usually expect, however I still had a moderate burning pain and thus POIS symptoms as well.

Mexican Wild Yam Root [425 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: Another great one! This one considerably reduces POIS symptoms, however serious side effects may make it difficult to use effectively. It also has a rather rapid effect. Shortly after the first capsule I began to feel a reduction in my chronic symptoms, so I decided to test it more seriously and had an O two hours later. POIS onset was rather mild (e.g. only mild bloodshot eyes). Four hours later I took another one before going to sleep. My eyes were rather clear at this time which means that the first one was still in effect. In the morning I felt rather great. I could best compare the degree of its effect to licorice.
However my joy proved short lived as shortly after taking the third one in the morning I developed a serious back pain. The pain seemed to originate from around the left lung and radiated to my back. I could breathe well though, but any movement induced a sharp pain. This lasted for about one and a half day then it disappeared. Of course I had similar cases in the past, but it is more usual that the pain radiates to the front and that is why I call it chest pain. This whole episode reminded me to my experiences with medicinal mushrooms which can also induce a similar effect when I use them as a singular treatment in high dose.
At another occasion I only took one capsule 3 and a half hours before an O although I also drank some saffron tea. At least this proved to be safe. It has yet to be determined if two capsules are safe or not. By the way I think wild yam capsules are best taken about 2-3 hours before an O.
As wild yam is marketed as a traditional women's health support it makes me think that a hormonal imbalance theory seems even more probable as the origin of POIS.

Red clover (Trifolium pratense) [Red clover flower tops 375 mg per capsule including 76 mg isoflavanoids; Rd: 1-2]: It has a beneficial effect, although not to a great degree. I took 3 capsules per day and even had an O with it, however it was only about as effective as garlic pills. Side effects were short sporadic pain effects at different places, but it was only a nuisance.

Naproxen [220 mg Naproxen Sodium which equals 200 mg of Naproxen; Rd: 1-2 or 3 at max]: At most I took 3 and a half pills. I haven't had an O with it, but it reduced the burning pain weakly.

Matcha tea: When I first tried matcha tea it seemed to be good, but now I have to reconsider this after I tested it a bit more. The conclusion I made that it is only weakly beneficial or not at all. I drank one teaspoon (about 4 g x 3) of matcha tea three times a day. I couldn't really notice any change in symptoms during the acute period. The only notable thing is that the lymph nodes in my breasts got inflamed which doesn't occur frequently otherwise, but this may have been a coincidence only.

Green tea capsules [500 mg per capsule: 80% polyphenols, 60% catechins, EGCG: 225 mg, caffein: 10 mg, Rd: 1]: I took two capsules in a day, but I couldn't perceive any change whatsoever. Later I will try it in some combinations, however I can't believe that prolonged use would make it any more effective for me.

Black tea: I discovered it last year that it has a certain positive effect when consumed in greater amounts (about 1-2 l). It helped in some POIS recovery cases. I also noticed that sucking on the used filter can rapidly alleviate a sore throat, although only for a few minutes. I also realize that different brands have considerably different effectiveness. Unfortunately I couldn't find the brand that worked well before and my current one is not the best.

Niacinamide: I also tested combinations of matcha tea and black tea with niacinamide separately, however I couldn't see any great difference compared to their base effects. I didn't have an O, but I was on acute days and exercise intolerance is an everyday issue nowadays, so there was place for improvement. I also think that niacinamide is most effective about 8-10 hours after consumption. This doesn't mean that taking another one before an O would be a bad idea or that other POIS types would react with the same timing.

Testosterol 250 [In one capsule it contains 250mg plant sterol, 15 mg inuline and some more, Rd: 1]:
This one is marketed as a popular testosterone booster. I really hoped it would work, however I had to be disappointed. It had a weak positive effect after an O when I took three capsules in a day, but I simply don't see any point in further raising the dosage.

Pregnenolone [50 mg per capsule Rd:1]: It seemed to be an interesting one to try, so I did. Unfortunately it proved to be of no use. I think it actually makes my symptoms worse, although not very apparently. The bloodshot eyes were especially bad on the days when I used it and depression hadn't changed whatsoever. I think the stool had a burning quality more so than usual, however this is rather difficult to judge accurately. Two times I wanted to take another capsule for a greater effect, however after looking at my eyes in the mirror I just didn't dare to.

Grape seed extract (Vitis Vinifera) [200 mg extract in 4 pills of which 190 mg is proanthocyanidine; Rd: 4]: I took 4 to 6 on consecutive days. As far as I could judge it only has a weak beneficial effect, but nothing considerable.

Hops tea [about 1L]: I think it has a weak beneficial effect, but nothing considerable.

Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan [100 mg Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan powder and 160 mg Maitake Mushroom powder; Rd: 1]: I took 3 in a day and it definitely has a good effect on POIS. I also had an O with it and I could perceive an antidepressive effect, however I still had bloodshot eyes to a degree and didn't feel exactly well. It may have about the same effectiveness as Cordyceps, although I would need a consecutive test to be able to judge this.
I also bought several other types of mushroom supplements and I am really interested in trying those as well.

Soy beans (bio, cooked for one hour with only a little added salt): I ate about 80-100 g of it at two separate days. To cut it short I think it is actually bad for me. Like other beans it also causes a lot of flatulence, which in a way causes a bump in POIS, but also accelerates POIS disappearance usually. In the past I had some positive experience with beans (especially bean soup), however soy bean seems to have a mixed effect instead. The bloodshot eyes and depression haven't changed. However the burning pain was certainly enhanced and at the second time I got up in the morning feeling especially weak.

Beta-sitosterol [400 mg of plant sterols per capsule including 200 mg beta-sitosterol; Rd: 2]: I only took one capsule that gave me a rather great headache which lasted throughout the day. Interestingly though I think it actually reduced POIS to a weak-moderate degree, however the testing circumstances were not ideal. Later I will try smaller doses to see if this is any better that way.

Rhaponticum Tribulus [500 mg Tribulus terrestris and 100 mg Rhaponticum carth. per capsule]: It was on sale so I bought a supplement that combines Tribulus and Ecdysteron. I haven't tested it much, but it certainly makes me feel better, so ecdysterone is really a good find.

Tea tree oil: I tested it some more, although without an O. However it certainly seems to have a beneficial effect as it considerably reduces the burning pain. I think it has a solid moderate effect and I will try to have an O with it to be able to judge it more accurately.

GABA [500 mg gamma-aminobutyric acid per capsule; Rd: 2]: So far I have only taken one at different times as it has some worrying side effects. Most importantly it didn't change depression. However it somewhat reduced the burning pain and had a good effect on stool quality.
A very peculiar side effect I experienced is that GABA can cause a sharp pain in the brain at a specific site. However this is nothing like any headache I have ever experienced before. I am not sure if I should be worried about this phenomena if I decided to take it in a greater dose or for a prolonged time.

Spirulina [One pill contains 300 mg spirulina algae powder, 0.45 mg beta carotine, 75 ug (daily intake reference: 9.38%) vitamin A provitamin; Rd: 1-8]: I took 9 pills (3x3) for two days, however there weren't any considerable effects. Although it definitely had a good effect on stool quality and the burning pain was somewhat reduced which means that it is a little effective at least.

Common centaury tea: I haven't tried this again, but I forgot to mention a side-effect I experienced.
There occurred a weak pulsating feeling on the top of the head. This was reminiscent to the feeling when I overdosed tryptophan, but it was much weaker and orthostatic intolerance was not present at all. I am really not sure if this could be considered some kind of cleaning effect or something bad tough.

Some additional trials:
Acai berry [75 mg acai berry extract per softgel capsules; Rd:2]: I took 3-4 per day. I think it has a weak mixed effect. It reduced the burning pain, however I almost constantly had weak-moderate degree bloodshot eyes while I used it. I will put this in the ineffective group due to this. By the way I often pass the (safer) ineffective supplements to my mom and she told me that after taking acai berry and green tea capsules in combination for a week her high blood pressure normalized and this made her happy. I don't know whether this is true, but it could be a good thing to test for those who have high blood pressure problem.

Shatavari powder (Asparagus) [Rd: 2 tsp]: First of all shatavari must be taken with milk. Whenever I drank it with water it greatly irritated my throat. However drinking it with milk greatly diminishes this side-effect. I tested shatavari by taking 2-3 tsp for some days and even had an O with it. I think it has a weak-moderate efficacy as it is good for my gut, but doesn't actually make a real difference. It is considered an adaptogen and is actually recommended to be taken with Ashwagandha for a greater effect. On the last day I did just that (3+3 teaspoon of Shatavari + Ashwagandha powder during the day) and it seems to have a solid moderate effect, although even Ashwagandha may have that if used alone, so the combination doesn't necessarily make them better.

Jasmine infused green tea [about 2 liters; made tea two times using a teabag containing 2 g of jasmine tea and drank it throughout the day]: At first I thought it works quite well, so I even had an O, but in the next morning my symptoms were quite average. Nevertheless jasmine tea was at least weakly beneficial considering how it reduced the burning pain. As jasmine tea is based on green tea I may still need to reevaluate green tea, although even if it has a benefit it is surely not considerable. It is also possible that jasmine infused black tea would work better, but I am not sure if I can obtain such.

Bitter gourd or melon (Momordica charantia) [500 mg per capsule standardized for 1.8 % charantin, it also contains 15 mcg chromium; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 splitting it equally during the day. The first time I took a bitter melon capsule it gave me 3 hours of moderate stomach/duodenum pain, however later it seemed to have some positive effect, so I didn't want to give up its trial. Its release from the capsule is probably too concentrated and results in local irritation. I decided to open up the capsules and mix them in water. This way it proved safe for consumption. I tested it vs. an O, but it was only partially effective. It manages to reduce the burning pain significantly, however it is not so good in symptom reduction itself (e.g. regular bloodshot eyes). It certainly helps with POIS recovery, so I would say it has about a moderate efficacy. It also induces more than average flatulence which could be a problem. Besides this my only real problem with bitter gourd is its price tag, which is not the best considering its effectiveness.

Lion's mane [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: Another medicinal mushroom that works really well. It is actually the main component of the medicinal mushroom mix I took earlier. I took 3 capsules in a day and couldn't experience any side-effects. It also had some anti-depressive effect. I even tested it with an O and it had a general positive effect, however this alone can't overcome everything, especially when I eat some POIS enhancing food. It is possibly better than Ganoderma especially if I evaluate the amount I took, but taking both may be even better if I consider my experiences with the medicinal mushroom mix.

Ganoderma lucidum - Reishi powder [Rd: 1-2 tsp]: I took 2-3 tsp per day. This is a really good thing as it makes a noticeable difference in symptoms. Ganoderma gave the distinct odor I experienced with beta-glucan and it actually contains some, however it also has some 5a-reductase inhibitor compounds (e.g. beta sitosterol) as well which could contribute to its overall effect. My subjective feeling is that its effect is comparable to Tribulus terrestris although the amount of powder could be considered a great amount. Reishi just generally makes me better, however it can't overcome everything and using even higher doses doesn't seem safe, although I had no particular side-effects so far. There were some points when it felt like Reishi reduced depression, but I still need to investigate this a bit further.

Branded medicinal mushroom mix: I rechecked the constituents and found that it contains lions's mane (350 mg), chaga (100 mg), ganoderma (30 mg), EGCG (5 mg) and apigenin (9 mg). I haven't tried chaga, but the other two mushrooms surely work and apigenin as well. EGCG (green tea) doesn't seem to work and I am actually a bit suspicious if it could have been the reason why this mix often induced chest inflammation. Nevertheless this medicinal mushroom mix combined with Maca, chamomile tea and some ginger had a very positive effect on POIS, so I have high hopes for a custom combination.

Tongkat Ali [100 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: Another testosterone booster that makes me noticeably better with some anti-depressive effect. The first time I took Tongkat Ali it caused a headache, however I used it on several other days as well and this hasn't happened again. I have yet to test it with an O, but I am quite sure that it belongs in the good or best category.

Pygeum [500 mg per capsule bark extract, Rd: 2]: I took two capsules for a few days in the acute phase and it certainly has a beneficial effect. It seems to have a weak-moderate effect on burning pain reduction, but it probably can't reduce depression. Pygeum is considered a potent 5a-reductase and aromatase inhibitor, so I believe others should check it as well.

Nutmeg powder: I expected something considerable of nutmeg, however it didn't prove so. I took 1/4-1/2 teaspoon twice per day. It somewhat reduced the burning pain, but symptoms were quite average. Bloodshot eyes may have been a bit worse, although I am not entirely sure in this. Nutmeg also gave a distinct sweetish odor to farts, which is not necessarily a good thing though. :)

Passionflower [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 4]: At most I took 6 in a day and also had an O. It can't prevent POIS onset as I still had bloodshot eyes. Muscle fatigue was also apparent the next day. It weakly reduces the burning pain and has a good effect on stool quality. Depression was not particularly strong however lately I haven't had a real problem with that anyway (probably the effect of summertime).

Tricolor Maca [650 mg per capsule containing yellow, red and black maca; Rd: 2]:  I took a few here and there and sometimes I would get severe bloodshot eyes. This is a bit disappointing, but also a rather surprising discovery. For now I suspect that either black or red maca could be actually detrimental as I have taken yellow maca for quite a while without problems. I also bought yellow maca powder which I had tried a few times without any ill effects. Needless to say this could be a major finding in the search for the root of POIS. In the future I will test tricolor maca some more and also buy some black or red maca if I can to check if such a difference really exists.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 09:26:28 AM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2021, 12:53:44 PM »
Awesome you trial so much stuff  :)

Note that some things need to accumulate in the body and don't have an instant effect.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2021, 02:04:33 PM »
Awesome you trial so much stuff  :)

Note that some things need to accumulate in the body and don't have an instant effect.

It is true, however this may be still enough to find out parallelisms and the possible underlying mechanism. If we managed that we could use a more integrated approach in the curative effort. If I wanted to test everything for weeks it would take a lifetime to get anywhere. I believe that preliminary results also portend long-term effects. It is also really interesting that how some of the beneficial things (e.g. saffron, maca, alfalfa) had the most potent and noticeable effect when I first used them (day zero) and later their effect became attenuated. Even more intriguing is the fact that the same seems to be true for bad stuff as well. When I eat any bad food the symptoms usually intensify in only a few hours and can persist for about 1-2 days while it is in my body. Also when I first eat fresh walnuts or poppy seeds in the autumn they can hit me rather severely, but if I keep eating them for days the negative effects become attenuated as well. So the body compensates in both direction.
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2021, 02:38:41 AM »
Cascara sagrada bark (not cascara!) [450 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O with it. The burning pain was reduced to a weak or maybe weak to moderate level, however not to the degree I hoped for. Symptoms were possibly a bit reduced, but I couldn't see any significant change. A rather inconvenient side effect that cascara sagrada caused is that stools were rather loose and also rather smelly, not to mention farts. Well it may reflect some positive change in the microbiome, however other supplements worked much better without such a problem, so I don't think it is the best choice.

Creatine HCl [800 mg per capsule; Rd: 4]: I took 5-6 capsules daily and also had an O. I think it has a weak to moderate effect on burning pain reduction and symptoms were also not pronounced. At first I was a bit happy that it works so well, however the day after O I continued the supplementation and developed a regular painful lymphoid inflammation on the left side of the neck. I thought it was a coincidence, but I stopped the supplementation. A few days later when the inflammation passed I began to take creatine again, however this time I developed a lymphoid inflammation in the right breast where the pain radiated to the right armpit. So I stopped creatine again and it took the inflammation quite a few days to subside.  So even though creatine was good for POIS I am still not convinced whether it is safe to use. When I am prepared for some more pain I am going to test this again. Another possibility is that I used a too high dose, however studies indicate that in the loading phase one can take even higher amounts without any reported side-effects.

Garcinia cambogia extract (Garcinia gummi-gutta) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 2-4 capsules daily and had an O with it. Although at first I felt it could be something bad, later it turned out to be actually rather good. It had a moderate effect on the reduction of the burning pain and symptoms were also generally reduced a bit (e.g. only weak bloodshot eyes, weak depression). So on its own it is not particularly effective, however it may be a great addition to some combination. Although I have to note that certain combinations of Garcinia cambogia were found to cause liver toxicity, so one has to be careful. My personal opinion is that the effects of Garcinia cambogia are very similar to that of bitter melon as at first they both felt like something bad, however they actually turned out quite alright.

Fo-ti extract (Polygonum multiflorum) [500 mg per capsule which is equivalent to 5000 mg Fo-Ti]: I took 2-3 daily. I didn't have an O, however it has no considerable effect. It seemed to have reduced the burning pain weakly, however I think I had somewhat more intense bloodshot eyes than usual. Breast lymph nodes were also not reduced.
I also bought dried Fo-ti root separately and made a tea from it, however experiences were not much different as with the capsules. By the way Fo-Ti is indicated to turn hair very strong and so it may be still beneficial, however not for the type of POIS I have.

Bacopa monniera [200 mg leaf extract per capsule]: I took 3-6 per day. I only took it for a few days for now, but it doesn't seem to have a considerable effect. It might had a weak antidepressive effect a few hours after consumption, however I was not especially depressed anyway. However I was also weakly depressed at times, so its effect is certainly not considerable. There was a time when it felt like it warmed me, but this effect was also not consistent so I am not sure if it was only by chance. Bloodshot eyes were consistently weak, but also present. I also had a weak lymphoid inflammation at one day, but I don't think it was due to Bacopa, however it doesn't seem like it helps in this regard either.

Drotaverine (No-Spa) [40 mg per pill; Rd: 3-6]: I took 4-6 pills (160-240 mg) for a few days and it proved to have a considerable effect on POIS. Right on the first day I had an O an hour after taking the first two pills. POIS offset was not too bad, however my timing was possibly off as drotaverine seems to have a slower effect. I think it peaks about 7 hours after consumption as I felt rather well around that time. Drotaverine considerably reduces the burning pain, although I couldn't evaluate it precisely as I ate some bad food on almost all test days and then I simply ran out of pills. On the second morning after O I also experienced a marked reduction in photosensitivity. Its overall effect reminds me of alfalfa, however alfalfa still seems to be better. It is true though that on the last day I took 6 drotaverine pills along with 6 alfalfa pills and I still had POIS symptoms which shows that even the best things can't easily overcome this tenacious disease, but at least I felt considerably better.
So far I couldn't identify any side-effects, however it is possibly not a good idea to take such a high amount on a daily basis, but on days of O it can surely come in handy.
This of course makes the investigation of other PDE4 inhibitor (e.g. luteolin, kanna) worth-while.

Nutrisan RespiCalm [found in 22.5 ml: acacia honey - 13500mg, Grindelia (Grindelia robusta) flower extract - 1350mg, Round sundew (Drosera rotundifolia) aerial parts extract - 405mg, Silver Fir (Abies alba Mill) bud extract - 270mg, Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus globulus Labill.) Leaf Extract - 270mg, Common elder (Sambucus nigra) flower extract - 270mg, Common thyme (Thymus vulgaris L.) leaf extract - 270mg, Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus globulus Labill.) Leaf and Bark Extract - 270mg, Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus globulus Labill.) essential oil - 2.7mg, Mountain pine (Pinus mugo) essential oil - 2.7mg; Rd: 7.5 mg]: This got me interested as it is marketed to be beneficial for breathing issues. I only felt this effect when I first took it, however I have no pronounced breathing problems anyway. I took 3 teaspoons every day (about 15 ml) and I couldn't experience any major side-effects, however it is probably not wise to exceed the recommendation for a longer time. I haven't had an O, but the burning pain reduced noticeably. Symptoms were not major, but still present. For now I would say that it has a moderate effect and certainly seems something good to try especially for those who really have breathing problems. The most active ingredient is likely Eucalyptus as tea tree oil is also beneficial, however the other constituents may contribute too.

Vitamin C-1000 with bioflavonoids [Per pill content: Vitamin-C 1000 mg, Citrus bioflavonoid 50 mg, Acerola 50 mg, rose hip 10 mg; Rd: 1]: I took 2 for a few days. On the second day I took one 8 hours before an O and then another one two hours later. This way POIS onset was surprisingly weak. My eyes were only weakly bloodshot and in the next morning symptoms were generally low grade. I still had noticeable muscle fatigue and rhinitis, but otherwise I felt relatively alright. The stool was relatively loose and only weakly burning. It also managed to ameliorate the effects of some bad foods (e.g. coffee) I ate during the trial. Its overall effectiveness looks to be on par with Ashwagandha, so a solid moderate effect is appropriate for this dosage. There was a time when I drank a lot of lemon juice as it had some good effect, but as I remember I developed some kidney problems, so I stopped drinking it altogether. I also took Vitamin-C pills here and there, but usually no more than a 500 mg pill as I was worried about possible kidney problems.

Artemizia [Ingredients in 5 ml: MCT oil - 4400 mg, artemisinin - 60 mg, vitamin E - 12 mg, chlorophyll - 1 mg, vitamin A - 800 ug, vitamin D - 5 ug; Rd: 1 teaspoon (5 ml)]: I took 1.5 teaspoon per day (3 x 0.5 tsp. - 7.5 ml). It has no noticeable rapid effect, but only a slow one. On the second day I had an O two hours after the second portion for that day. POIS onset was somewhat weaker than usual, but not considerably. In the next morning symptoms were somewhat lighter, but weakly bloodshot eyes and breast lymph nodes were still present. I also experienced a mild depression so it was nothing like saffron. The burning pain was still present, but noticeably reduced. I took one teaspoon in the morning as in the afternoon I had more than usual physical work, but exercise intolerance was rather usual with pronounced bloodshot eyes and a sore throat by the end of the work.
As for side-effects I am really not sure, but it may cause some circulatory issues. I don't usually measure my blood pressure only if something doesn't seem right. So my bp was somewhat lower than usual, but a longer trial would be necessary to clarify this issue. Given the components it is not clear if artemisinin was really the most active agent, but at least the product was beneficial in overall. I would judge the effectiveness as weak to moderate.

Yohimbe bark extract (Pausinystalia johimbe) [500 mg per capsule with 2 % standardized alkaloids content (~ 10 mg). It doesn't specify whether the alkaloid is actually yohimbine.; Rd: 1]: I took daily 2 for a few days, but I didn't have an O. It certainly has a positive effect, however its efficacy is rather poor. It managed to somewhat reduce gut problems, but other symptoms were almost as usual. This was especially apparent when on the third day I had more than usual work and exercise intolerance was  practically the usual with muscle pain/fatigue and bloodshot eyes that were only slightly better than usual. I couldn't experience an increase in libido which is rather low nowadays possibly due to too much work. There are also possible side-effects, although these were not very salient. At times I felt some transient heartaches and some cramping pain at other places, but they were not consistent and bearable. Of course given its low effectiveness and possible adverse effects I don't believe I will add this to a future treatment regime.

Some past experiences: I wanted to retest them before writing about their effects, however I just don't know when I am going to get around to have time for them.
- beta alanine: I took it for two month, but I don't think it was any effective.
- alpha lipoic acid (ALA): I took it for two month partially with beta-alanine and it was possibly weakly effective.
- milk thistle (sylimarin): I took it several years ago and I remember that I had some positive experiences with it. It possibly has a weak or moderate effect.
- coenzyme Q10: I took it a few years ago, but rather sparsely and some vague memory tells me that sometimes I had a noticeably positive experience with it while at other times it was not so useful. Based on recent findings I definitely need to recheck this one.

Some preliminary experiences:
- DHEA: It helped at least weakly, but muscle fatigue may have been worse.
- CBD oil: It helped weakly, but as I increased the dose I experienced nausea and the eyes were also unusually bloody.
- olive leaf extract: I tried this a few month ago by taking three capsules across the day and it certainly reduced the burning pain, however in the third morning the eyes were bloody veined (not bloodshot) and it scared me a bit so I stopped taking it. Maybe I should test it the way Going less Crazy suggested.
- ADEK vitamin: I tried this in the summer with double dose and while it certainly helped at least weakly the following day I sweated like crazy which was rather unusual even for a summer day.
- Allegra: Symptoms were either unchanged or somewhat even worse.
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2021, 09:06:55 AM »
Over-the-Counter Ocular Decongestants in the United States – Mechanisms of Action and Clinical Utility for Management of Ocular Redness
Nasal congestion
Red eyes
Naphazoline eye drops for neurosomatic disorders/neural network disorders are being used but higher concentration like 0.1%, 1 drop in each eye.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 09:14:22 AM by Muon »


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2021, 07:57:33 AM »
Astaxanthin [4 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took two pills per day and even had an O. Its effect is really great. There is no rapid antidepressive effect, however the reduction in the burning pain is considerable and can be felt in the reduction of other symptoms as well. It has a lesser effect than drotaverine or licorice, but I couldn't perceive any side-effects so far which makes it a really great addition to a stack. More specifically bloodshot eyes were moderately reduced, but I still had morning photophobia. It helped the most with exercise intolerance as even after exhaustive work I had greatly reduced eye problems and also hadn't developed any sore throat. Muscle pain was still present to some degree.
The only problem I see with the product is that it contains too much vitamin E, which makes me hesitant to take more than one each day.

Safflower oil (contains linoleic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid and stearic acid) [Daily dose is 2 ml (1 coffeespoon) which contains 340 mg of MUFAs from which 340 mg is oleic acid and 1462 mg of PUFAs of which 1462 mg are omega-6 fatty acids]: I took 1.5 (3 x 0.5) teaspoon per day which is about 4-5 times the recommended daily dose. This turned out surprisingly good. The overall effect somehow reminded me to that of passionflower. It doesn't seem like it turns POIS any worse, so it is quite unlikely that linoleic acid would be detrimental. I had an O and while it can't prevent POIS onset the symptoms in the following days were generally weaker, so it helps with recovery. The stool was noticeably yellowish and looser, but the burning pain was still present somewhat. Generally it had about a moderate efficiency in POIS management.

Cold pressed linseed/flaxseed oil [In 10 g it has: 1 g of saturated fatty acids, 2 g of MUFAs and 7 g of PUFAs]: I consumed 3 teaspoons of linseed oil daily which is possibly about 10 grams. It was beneficial for the gut issues, but it had a weak efficiency. Safflower oil was definitely more useful.

Feverfew tincture [In 100 drops it contains the following: feverfew - 83.3 mg, peppermint – 55.5 mg, red raspberry leaves – 55.5 mg, Valeriana – 27.8 mg, lemonbalm – 27.8 mg, ginger – 27.8 mg; Rd: 45-100 drops]: I took 60-100 drops a day and also had an O. It certainly helped with POIS, but only weakly so as symptoms were not much better. The burning pain reduction was somewhat better. It also seemed to have some weak, but short-lived antidepressive effect. My overall estimation would be a weak to moderate efficacy.

Seven mushroom mix [one capsule contains 143 mg from each of the following: ganoderma, chaga, shiitake, maitake, lion's mane, Cordyceps militaris, Tremella fuciformis (snow fungus or snow ear); Rd:2]: I took 4 capsules per day and had an O. At first I was a bit disappointed as POIS onset was only slightly weaker. However it certainly helps with recovery as it is really good for the gut issues. By the second morning I felt much better and the morning photophobia was noticeably reduced. I still had some muscle pain though. Fortunately I had no signs of chest inflammation and the lymphatic nodules in the breasts were actually reduced in size, although they haven't disappeared completely. Its overall efficacy doesn't seem much better than lion's mane alone, but it is still a very good supplement.

Bio Siberian ginseng powder (Eleutherocus senticosus) [Rd: 2-3 g]: I took about 1.5 - 2 teaspoon a day which is about 6-8 g. It doesn't have any considerable effect or side-effect. I masturbated two times without an O and both times symptoms got worse so it couldn't even protect against partial POIS. It seemed to reduce the burning pain a bit, but even flaxseed oil was better in this regard. At least it seemed to help a bit with libido recovery what I consider a good thing.

Diosmin + Hesperidin [One pill contains: Diosmin: 400.5 mg, Hesperidin: 44.5 mg, grape vine leaf extract: 168 mg, grape seed extract: 158 mg, vitamin C: 80 mg; Rd: 1]: I took two daily and had an O. I think it can lighten POIS onset somewhat, but I may need to test it multiple times to verify this. It certainly has a positive effect on gut issues. In this regard it was close to medicinal mushrooms. Depression was so-so and bloodshot eyes were only slightly reduced and it couldn't protect against coffee or food potentiation. Lymphatic issues were quite unchanged or only slightly better. Although bloodshot eyes were close to average, the eye burning that usually occurs as night comes was noticeably reduced. I mention this as I also noticed a similar effect with grapeseed extract alone. However this supplement was better than grapeseed alone, so the other components must also have a beneficial effect. It also lightened morning photophobia a little bit, but the change was not considerable.

Resveratrol (Polygonum cuspidatum root extract) [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: This is another great find. I took 2 capsules daily and had an O. Resveratrol evidently has a considerable effect on my case. Most of my symptoms got better and especially my gut issues. I could move better, felt better, photophobia was noticeably reduced, breast lymph nodes became smaller, but still present. I still had some depression, but it had a really positive effect on my mood as I just generally felt well or normal, which is quite unusual. Resveratrol provided the least help with bloodshot eyes, but even this symptom seemed a bit better. It definitely has a place among my top supplements especially as it had no apparent side-effects so far.

Zembrin - kanna (Sceletium tortuosum aerial parts extract) [25 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took one capsule a day and also had an O. This one proved to be quite elusive. When I first took Zembrin it evidently induced bloodshot eyes and I also became really depressed. The burning feeling also felt somewhat enhanced however stool quality seemed better. Interestingly in the following days the initial reaction became much reduced and the positive effects became more dominant. I also had an O, but unfortunately I took one capsule of MACA that morning and even though POIS was light I am not sure of their individual contributions. Breast lymph nodes were quite unchanged and I was feeling rather average too while taking Zembrin, so my point is that it is neither too good, nor too bad and on the overall I can say that it is weakly beneficial in my case. I also realize that this is not the best supplement to prove any point about opioids due to its PDE4 inhibitory capability. So even though it is not the best supplement for me I can easily imagine that it could prove better for other POISers especially if they had problems with anxiety which is not an issue for me or at least not in a physiological manner.

Canola oil (Premium cold pressed oil without additives): I only tested it one day, by taking one teaspoon in the morning and one in the evening. I spread it on top of bread and ate it that way. I got a similarly bad reaction as I usually experience with eating walnuts. My symptoms were also quite bad in the following few days even though I tried to take several good supplements. I will need to test this at least one more time just to see if the same thing happens, although I have already suspected canola as I had problems with other products that list it as an ingredient. I also don't think the quality or manufacturing could be blamed for any effect as the product seems to be of fine quality.

Synephrine (Citrus aurantium extract) [10 mg per pill; Rd: 2]: I tested synephrine for a few days by taking 2 pills per day. At first it didn't seem so bad, but later I noticed that about 3-5 hours after consumption I would usually develop more pronounced bloodshot eyes. This was not severe though and usually resolved mostly in 1-2 hours. Stool quality seemed better, but the burning pain was unchanged or a bit worse. Breast lymph nodes were also unchanged. All in all synephrine possibly makes POIS a bit worse, however the overall effect is really weak so I don't believe that alpha adrenergic activity is at the core of my problems.
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2021, 04:44:58 PM »
Safflower oil (contains linoleic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid and stearic acid) [Daily dose is 2 ml (1 coffeespoon) which contains 340 mg of MUFAs from which 340 mg is oleic acid and 1462 mg of PUFAs of which 1462 mg are omega-6 fatty acids]: I took 1.5 (3 x 0.5) teaspoon per day which is about 4-5 times the recommended daily dose. This turned out surprisingly good. The overall effect somehow reminded me to that of passionflower. It doesn't seem like it turns POIS any worse, so it is quite unlikely that linoleic acid would be detrimental. I had an O and while it can't prevent POIS onset the symptoms in the following days were generally weaker, so it helps with recovery. The stool was noticeably yellowish and looser, but the burning pain was still present somewhat. Generally it had about a moderate efficiency in POIS management.

What if Safflower oil (= mostly linoleic acid)
"elevates the endocannabinoids 2-AG and anandamide"
which helps you somehow?
Source: "Essentially, we are eating a diet that is giving us the munchies, the effect that marijuana has on those that consume it."

This somehow relates to the thought that I'm self-medicating with Pizza (cheese casomorphin etc) on the day after orgasm.
Others had success with CBD.

But how would this interfact with your caipiscin like theory?


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2022, 07:50:59 AM »
L-Theanine [250 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. L-theanine seems to help in a lot of things, however it just doesn't do this very effectively. I still had bloodshot eyes, but it was reduced a bit. I still had depression, but it was reduced a bit. I still had gut issues, but it was reduced a bit. It also had a noticeable protective effect in regard of exercise intolerance, but it was not so good as astaxanthin. Enlarged lymphoid nodes were rather unchanged or only a bit better. I have tried to combine it with black tea, however experiences were only a bit better and I still had noticeable POIS symptoms. Nevertheless L-Theanine is a good candidate in a future stack.

Chinese skullcap (Scutellaria baicalensis root extract) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. Chinese skullcap is definitely beneficial, but it is still only one of the many supplements that help somewhat, but not to a great extent. I think it helped the most with my eye symptoms as they were quite alright even after the O, however it wasn't beneficial against exercise induced intolerance as I still developed severely burning bloodshot eyes when doing physical work. It was also of no use for depression. Gut issues were somewhat reduced, but not considerably. For now I would say that it has a weak-moderate effect. As it is another 5a-reductase inhibitor I could best compare it to Pygeum, which had about the same effectiveness.

Sodium butyrate [580 mg per capsule with 175 mg of butter acid; Rd: 2]: I took daily three capsules. I didn't have an O as I couldn't see the point. Sodium butyrate has about the same good and bad effects, although neither is too strong. The bad thing about it is that it clearly induces bloodshot eyes about 5-6 hours after ingestion. It felt like it had a mixed effect on gut issues, but at least from the third day stool quality was noticeably better, even so other symptoms remained rather general (baseline bad). Breast lymph nodes were also quite unchanged which indicates its ineffectiveness.

Inositol [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily three capsules, but I didn’t have an O. Similarly to others it had a somewhat positive effect on my eyes, however it didn't solve everything of course. Gut issues were a bit better, but depression was unchanged. I could say that it has an effectiveness of about weak-moderate, but in my opinion Chinese skullcap was still somewhat better even when I consider bloodshot eyes.

DHM - Dihydromyricetin (Ampelopsis grossedentata leaf extract) [220 mg per capsules; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. Unfortunately DHM didn't prove very useful.
It had a small benefit on bloodshot eyes, but it had a mixed effect on gut issues. I would have put DHM in the mixed category, but I was not feeling so bad even after the O and it helped somewhat with recovery, so in overall I could say that it has a small benefit at least. I still had rather average muscle fatigue, so either irisin is not induced or simply doesn't effect muscle fatigue that much.

Amla (Phyllanthus emblica) [bio, organic, raw powder; Rd: 5 g]: I took 3 smaller teaspoons per day. It had a minimal positive benefit on eyes and a small one on gut issues, so it was really not terrific, however amla had no adverse effects at least. It is also a constituent of Triphala, but probably not the most important one.

Triphala (Phyllanthus emblica, Terminalia bellirica, Terminalia chebula) [bio, organic, raw powder Rd: 2-5 g]: I took about half to one teaspoon three times a day and had an O. This one proved quite good especially for my eyes. It prevented bloodshot eyes from POIS and partially prevented it from exercise induced intolerance. I think its efficacy in this regard was better than that of Chinese skullcap, however astaxanthin was still better. Interestingly triphala not only negated the eye symptoms owing to coffee consumption, but also its mild laxative effect. I can't exactly say that I had constipation though. I think rhinitis was reduced a bit. Depression was weak, but could be felt. Morning photophobia could be felt, but was not especially bad.  I also can't say that triphala helped much with gut issues and it is the only reason I don’t give it a higher score. Nevertheless it may still work really well in some combination and it is rather inexpensive as an advantage.

L-Tyrosine [500 mg per capsules; Rd: 2]: I took two capsules, but I didn't have an O. Gut issues were possibly a bit better, however the eyes were as bloodshot as ever or maybe even more so. Other symptoms were quite average. I also had weak depression and mood was rather baseline. I had to stop taking it on the third day due to very bloodshot eyes. I don’t think I will test it any time soon again unless I find very convincing theoretical evidence that it should work on the long run. For now I will put this in the mixed category.

Milk thistle oil [100 % cold pressed; Rd: no value given, but probably around 1 teaspoon]: I consumed 3 teaspoons of oil daily and had an O. Milk thistle started out really good, but later it was not so effective, still it certainly has a merit. Even though I had an O it was not a clear test as the ejaculation was burning like capsaicin. The truth is that in the previous days I ate a lot of poppy seed and walnut cakes and they were still affecting POIS. Nevertheless milk thistle still helped noticeably. It even had an anti-depressive effect, although I also slept a bit worse. It reduced rhinitis, however it only had a lesser positive effect on bloodshot eyes and could not really compensate the effects of coffee. Gut issues were moderately better, but not considerably and muscle fatigue could be felt weakly even though I was not working. Breast lymph nodes were rather unchanged. Its overall effectiveness may be comparable to L-theanine, but it doesn't mean their effects were exactly alike.

Asafoetida [ground asafoetida (30 %) and fenugreek seeds]: I took 1/3 teaspoons a day and had an O. At first I though I was only testing asafoetida, but later I realized that it is actually a combination of asafoetida and fenugreek. I think it worked somewhat better than fenugreek alone, but its effectiveness was not terrific. Gut issues were noticeably and bloodshot eyes were minimally better. Otherwise other symptoms were rather average, but certainly not out of hand.
I could also experience the aphrodisiac effect mentioned for Asafoetida and could last more during masturbation. A possibly worrisome side-effect though was that sometimes I felt a sudden cramp in my heart especially shortly after consumption even though asafoetida is supposedly safe up to 15 grams a day. I think in a smaller amount it could be still used well in a prepack, but I don't think it should be used regularly or for recovery. Its effectiveness could be weak-to-moderate.

Red maca [bio, raw, gluten free, organic powder; Rd: 5-10 g]: I took 3 teaspoon scoops a day, but I did not have an O. It was disappointingly ineffective. Still it helped with gut issues to a moderate-good degree. I couldn't experience any effect on depression. I think it also induced bloodshot eyes to a small degree after about 1-2 hours of consumption, but later it seemed like red maca helped a bit. Nevertheless this effect was not significant either way. So red maca was not particularly effective, but as a comparison I would still rather take this than sodium butyrate at least if I didn't know better. The overall effectiveness is weak-to-moderate.

Yellow maca [bio, raw, organic powder; Rd:1-3 teaspoon daily]: I took 3 teaspoons daily on POIS days. It definitely had a better effect than red maca powder. Unfortunately it didn't have a pronounced antidepressive effect, although I wasn't particularly depressed while I took it and I felt rather well actually. It certainly had a definite positive effect on my eyes. I can't say this effect was almighty, but still considerable. When I ate something bad the eyes still became bloodshot and it could only partially handle exercise induced intolerance. Gut issues were also considerably better. The only side-effect that may have been due to maca is that on the first day I had a rare nasal congestion, but on the following days this didn’t occur. Breast lymph nodes were also relatively unchanged which means that even though I was noticeably better, POIS was still lingering in my body ready to strike.

Black maca (maca negra) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took daily 5 capsules (2+2+1), but I didn't have an O. Unfortunately black maca also doesn't seem to have the power of yellow maca. This doesn't mean it wasn't beneficial, but certainly not to a considerable extent. I still had bloodshot eyes in general and sometimes it looked like black maca actually helped somewhat in this regard, but at other times the eyes remained consistently average, so this effect was not significant. Black maca also helped somewhat with gut issues, but only about as much as red maca. Of course it had no effect on depression which remained rather baseline. I couldn't note anything else out of the ordinary which means it is probably safe to use, but I don't see any point preferring this variety over yellow maca.

Damiana (Turnera diffusa) [4:1 dried leaf extract with 460 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules daily without an O. Damiana was really good for the eyes as they were much clearer than usual. When doing physical work I still had bloodshot eyes, but by the time I was going home it was only weakly bloodshot, so it partially protects against exercise induced intolerance. It also seems important that its effectiveness peaks around 6 hours after intake, so any benefit is most pronounced at this time and not right away. Damiana also proved to be quite good for the gut issues, although not as much as medicinal mushrooms of course. It did not have a distinct anti-depressive effect, though I was not really depressed generally and sometimes it felt like depression faded in-and-out as a small fluctuation. Breast lymph nodes were also quite unchanged. I can't say much about the aphrodisiac effect without an O, but it felt like the dick was a bit desensitized, which usually results in an increased endurance in my case.
Its overall efficacy seems very similar to that of yellow maca powder, though it may be less safe to use in the long run. Particularly there is a possible side-effect as on the third day after the third capsule I developed some lower leg pain, though I am not sure if it was due to Damiana or the fatigue of the muscles due to all the physical work I currently do. In the first place the only reason I dared to take such a high dose is that a fibromyalgic patient supposedly used the double of this amount for years to successfully treat his/her condition. This of course further reinforces the parallelism of the two conditions.

Yellow maca capsules (retest of the original one) [6:1 extract with 600 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-3]: I took 4-6 capsules a day (2+1-2+2). I currently can't afford an O due to work, but I wanted to compare its effectiveness to the other maca products, so I only took this for a few days. I can say that it still works really well and better than all the other maca products I have tried so far. I have to emphasize that it doesn't treat POIS perfectly, but still results in a noticeable improvement even on its own. The eye issues were much better. The gut issues were also much better. Most importantly I can still feel as the anti-depressive effect hits me and my eyes and mind suddenly become clear though only for a short time before depression re-emerges. Fortunately later the anti-depressive effect usually returns again, although less distinctly, but still with a good duration. When I am working I don't usually notice this quite well, but nevertheless the effect is quite notable in comparison to my usual zombified state.
The unusual effectiveness of this product may be due to the fact of it being an extract. This also means if someone had no luck with a particular maca product they may still have some with another one.

Diosgenin (wild yam root extract) [190 mg per capsule with 30 mg diosgenin saponins; Rd: 1-2]: This is also a wild yam product, but with a standardized diosgenin content. It is marketed as a testosterone and estrogen stimulator. I took 5 capsules a day (2+2+1) (which equals to about 950 mg extract with 150 mg diosgenin) and also had an O. It certainly has a beneficial effect that is somewhat comparable to that of yellow maca capsules, although it wasn't as potent as the original wild yam root capsules I had tried first. Its effect on the eyes was noticeably good, but I could still experience weakly bloodshot eyes. Put against exercise intolerance it was only partially protective as I could still develop bloodshot eyes, however they regenerated faster than usual when I could rest. I couldn't experience a distinct anti-depressive effect like with yellow maca capsules, however depression was quite low and I could think relatively well. Gut issues were also better, but again not as much as with yellow maca capsules. Morning photophobia was unusually low the second day after O which also indicates a potential benefit. As I remember the other wild yam reduced the breast lymph nodes a little even if I developed a chest pain, however I couldn't feel a big change with this one. Its effect was also not so rapid to develop, I think it peaked about 3-6 hours after intake. Most importantly I experienced no particular adverse side-effects for the few days I took it, so at least it seems rather safe compared to the other wild yam root supplement.

Wuweizi (Schisandra Chinensis) [500 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules and had an O. It had no major effect on POIS, but it was certainly beneficial. Bloodshot eyes were only slightly better than average, so it was not really good for this symptom. Wuweizi also had a moderate benefit on gut issues. I was feeling relatively well (for acute POIS) on the first morning after O as I had no particular photophobia or depression. Unfortunately the same day unexpectedly I had to work way more than usual and this lead me to develop a usual and very uncomfortable acute chest inflammation due to exercise intolerance. Of course this also forced me to change treatment. This was also the first day when covid-19 (omicron) symptoms occured and the chest inflammation later turned into an average pulmonitis, so Schisandra was really not faulty in this case.
One other interesting detail could be when I was masturbating somehow I felt more potent. As Schisandra is known to potentiate the effects of sildenafil (Viagra) I can only guess that this have been somehow related to that. Nevertheless based on the short time I tested it I can only give it a weak score. Even so it may be useful on the long run as it has a potent hepatoprotective effect.

I can also provide some preliminary reports:
At one time I tried a moderate amount of choline drops (choline-chloride) and this deteriorated my symptoms. I also ate some liver (choline-rich) the same day which was not the best idea. I certainly developed bloodshot eyes due to choline and the next day I felt rather awful and also developed a headache reminiscent of my early POIS years. I think this could be what others call the balloon-like headache as it felt like the outer edge of the brain was in pain and could feel the outline in the skull. It was an unpleasant experience and it took me a few days to get better with good supplements. Of course this still needs to be verified once more for good measure, but I will have to be really well to undergo such a likely torture again.

I also tried inosine, but I don't think it did anything particular. However as a possible side effect I think it can disturb sleeping as I awoke several times during the nights of the two consecutive days I took it. I  still have to test it a little more though to decide if it is really true and to ascertain its efficacy on POIS. I think it is important to emphasize that it did nothing bad even though being a possible mast cell activator.

I did a little update in the diet list as well (shown in red).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 02:14:54 PM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2022, 01:56:44 PM »
Mumps may be another reason why I had developed POIS. One of the complications of mumps is orchitis (testes inflammation). Although orchitis is unusual for prepubertal males, but it may occur. Mumps orchitis is also often accompanied by epididymitis which is the inflammation of the epididymis.

Unfortunately I can't remember practically anything about how this happened exactly, but it can't be excluded that orchitis may have occurred. If it was so then excessive or prolonged inflammation could have caused hypermethylation of genes in some genital tissues which would later result in primary onset of POIS even though being an acquired epigenetic alteration.

The results suggest that cytokines including TNF-a and transcriptional factors such as NF-kB (p65) contribute to silencing of SRD5A2 by regulating DNMT1 activity.
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2022, 01:06:22 PM »
Indole-3-carbinol (Brassicales) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules daily and had an O. This certainly helps, though at first it didn’t seem that effective, however after I had the O, only a very light POIS developed. Practically I had no bloodshot eyes and other symptoms were also reduced. I think indole-3-carbinol works better in POIS prevention, rather than ameliorate already existing symptoms. I am not exactly sure based on one O, but semen volume also seemed to have been reduced somewhat, though I had no problem with endurance. Considering everything I can give it a moderate rating. What pharmacologically seems relevant is indole-3-carbinol’s ability to antagonize AR and to preferentially activate ERB by possibly antagonizing ERa and reducing excessive estrogen effects. By the way it also inhibits DNMT, thus decreasing methylation. Its pharmacology is very similar to diindolylmethane (DIM) that I am going to test as well.

Spermidine [600 mg wheat-germ with 0.252 mg spermidine per capsule; Rd: 4 (1 mg spermidine)]: I took 4 capsules daily, but didn’t have an O. Spermidine has a positive effect, however its overall effectiveness is not too great. It helped moderately with gut issues, but other symptoms were rather average. I noticed an often rumbling belly, but flatulence was not especially increased. Eye symptoms were also minimally better. More specifically the leakiness of the veins seemed to have been reduced, but the little blood veins were even more pronounced. It was something similar to L-theanine, however the white of the eye was noticeably clearer with that. I can only give it a weak score for now.

Green barley powder [Rd: 1-2 teaspoons]: I took 3 teaspoons of powder a day and had two Os. At the first O I had a burning ejaculation which is rather uncommon. However symptoms were better than average afterwards. It could help with both eye and gut issues, however the experience seemed rather inconsistent. On the last day I took it with L-theanine (3x1) and had another O. Again I had a burning ejaculation which is usually not a good sign. POIS was not too bad though. The combination still helped with the eye symptoms, however other symptoms occurred normally. The next day the combination was somewhat less effective against exercise induced intolerance. The combination probably adds some to the overall effect, however the other O was probably too soon and POIS was more severe due to it.
One particular side-effect that I noticed was an unusual tension in the head that occurred with or without L-theanine. It was not an outright head-ache, but it made me a little worried. The dose was probably a bit high, but green barley powder is considered rather safe, so I was not too worried about overdosing. As tryptophan is abundant in barley grass powder it may explain both my positive and negative experiences with it, although it had no such anti-depressive effect as I experience with L-tryptophan otherwise. Barley grass powder has a better overall effect than wheat grass powder, however its side effects make me question if it is really worth taking at all. It has a weak-moderate effect on POIS nonetheless.

Magnolia bark (Magnolia officinalis) [400 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took 3 capsules a day and had an O. At first it seemed like it doesn’t really work that well. I still had bloodshot eyes and about average symptoms. At least gut issues were moderately reduced. I had the O on the third day and I think that was when it started to work a bit better as I did not develop particularly bloodshot eyes. The next morning was rather average, however by the end of work I had quite clear eyes which would be very unusual on a first day. I still had a weaker depression and I couldn’t notice a particular anti-depressive effect. The positive effect is most probably due to honokiol which can be also found in Magnolia bark. I think the strength of honokiol is not its outright effect, but that it may be able to do some permanent change which may be not true even for supplements that work better. Its acute benefit is at least somewhere between passionflower and bitter melon.

Quercetin+Rhodiola rosea+galangal combo [500 mg quercetin per pill; Rd: 2-3, 400 mg of Rhodiola rosea per capsule (12 mg rosavine, 4 mg salidroside); Rd: 1, galangal is rich in kaempferol]: I took them for a few days and had an O. Dosage used: 2 x quercetin (morning, evening) + 2 x Rhodiola (morning, noon) + galangal: half teaspoon x 3 times a day in warm water. I did a one day trial with each of them before, but couldn’t see much of a difference, so I thought I would try to combine them and see if they are any good. I came to the conclusion that while this combination certainly has some positive effect, yet its overall efficacy is rather low. Depression was light, but still there. Before O it seemed like it moderately reduced gut issues and minimally reduced bloodshot eyes, but this did not make a significant improvement in POIS feel. It was something similar after O, as POIS was only a little better than average and the combo only really prevented symptom escalation, but not their appearance. It may be interesting to note that while I masturbated I had a reduced desire and it was more difficult than usual to maintain an erection, however I had a normal endurance and average (non-burning) semen quantity. The reduced libido would have to be confirmed with consecutive Os, but I don’t have time for this as I want to reduce my POIS primarily and not my libido. The combination of quercetin and kaempferol is unlikely to be the sole reason for the effectiveness of some herbal tea, but it also doesn’t mean they would be of no use. I had more success with Triphala which also contains luteolin besides quercetin and kaempferol, so synergies probably count. As a final word I can only give this particular combination a weak score as even Chinese skullcap alone seemed better.

Ceylon cinnamon: I took half a teaspoon mixed in warm water or milk 2-3 times a day. I did not have an O, but when I masturbated I still developed quite bloodshot eyes. It was possibly a bit better than cassia cinnamon as at least it did not seem to induce POIS like that. I think both had actually mixed effects or caused some shift in POIS, but while cassia is mostly bad, the Ceylon variety has at least a minimal positive effect. Nevertheless it is not something I plan to add to my treatment, but at least it may serve as a safer spice if I decide to eat something with cinnamon. I think Ceylon cinnamon also increased my potency as a benefit, however as a side-effect it could also induce some pain here and there from time to time.

Noni fruit (Morinda citrifolia) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 3 capsules a day and had an O. Noni is certainly beneficial, however its efficacy is not very great. It certainly has a positive effect on eyes, however Chinese skullcap was better in this regard. It also had a moderate positive effect on gut issues. However I also developed a weak headache a few times which could have been due to noni. A few times I also had a short tinnitus in the otherwise silent right ear which was like a zipp-zipp sound. I could put noni in the weak-moderate category, however it is certainly not the best amongst the others from the same strength group. At least noni is thought to be able to bring about long term changes, which makes it worthy of consideration.

Wheat grass powder [Rd: 1-2 tsp]: I took 3 teaspoons a day and had an O. At first it seemed like it worked better, but testing it further made me realize that it only has a weak efficacy. It couldn’t do much about bloodshot eyes. Gut issues were also changed, but I would say that it only has a weak benefit in this area. At least it did not have any such side-effects as barley grass powder. I think this also contains some amount of spermidine, but I still don’t think it helps much and I am not sure if it is the beneficial compound in it. It is also a good source of alpha and beta tocotrienol if someone wanted to test those.

Satureja tea (Satureja hortensis): It gave me heavy bloodshot eyes a few hours after consuming two cups of tea. This symptom did not resolve easily, so I had to stop testing it. I think it is just not good for me. Carvacrol seems a likely culprit. Rosmarinic acid is also abundant in it, however I had no problems with other teas that contain it, while teas with carvacrol have been already suspicious.

Green cardamom: I ate 3x3 pack of seeds (pieces) a day. I masturbated, but did not have an O. I think it has a minimal protective effect on the eyes and a moderate one on gut issues. I couldn’t notice any side-effects and it also gives one a fresh breath as a benefit. While it is not too beneficial for POIS, it could be a good idea to take it regularly. It may be the second most expensive spice, but it is still cheaper than most dietary supplements. Cardamom is also another source of quercetin, but probably other beneficial compounds can be found in it.

Tree tea oil + lavender tea: The recommended dose for tree tea oil is 1-2 drops internally, but I consumed 7 drops (3+2+2) in a day and also drank 4 cups of lavender tea made from one tablespoon of  herb. Lavender surely has some anti-depressive action, although it was not so strong this time. On the next morning came an unpleasant surprise when I fell to the kitchen floor in the morning and could hardly get up. It turned out my blood pressure was somewhat low (97/68 P:50). I could hardly go to work, so I had to stop this test. Tree tea oil is the most likely culprit so anyone who decides to try it internally should keep to the recommended dosage. The overall effect on my symptoms was not so good, but I also ate something bad, so it was not a clear test. Actually I mostly wanted to know how the combination would affect breast lymph nodes. On the morning when I fell it was rather average, so one day is probably too little to evaluate this.

Alfalfa powder (+ lavender tea): I thought to retest alfalfa with another product. I took half a teaspoon of alfalfa powder three times a day. I had an O and had somewhat more symptoms than the previous time, however the next day during work it partially prevented exercise induced intolerance and by the end of work the eyes were quite clear. Unfortunately muscle fatigue still got worse as I worked and it was difficult to stand by the end of it. My libido recovered quite quickly so I decided to have another O the same day also drinking lavender tea alongside alfalfa powder. Results were somewhat worse than the previous time, but I expected such from consecutive Os, however I wanted to  check the recovery by taking the combination for at least two more days. Unfortunately this didn’t work out as by the next morning I developed a moderate ass muscle inflammation, which was strong enough to affect my movement, so I had to stop again. Breast lymph nodes were rather average this time, however the neck lymph nodes seemed really reduced, although I don’t frequently check this. Eyes were not so good as the previous day, but still better than without treatment. Alfalfa actually helps the most with gut issues, even if it is not perfect. Alfalfa doesn’t seem to have a direct anti-depressive effect, so lavender looked like a good choice for the combination, however this proved relatively weak this time. Actually I drank lavender tea both times when I was infected by covid-19 and the anti-depressive effect was quite good on those occasions, but I also drank saffron tea on those days, so it could have been a combined anti-depressive effect.
I had a weaker ass muscle inflammation without lavender the previous day, but I didn’t give it much consideration then. I have already noticed the intensification of this symptom with other supplements, but not very consistently. So far zinc induced this the most. Although at the moment I can’t really guess the connection between zinc and alfalfa in this regard. Thus alfalfa has a relatively good effect acutely against POIS, however side-effects may prevent its prolonged use.

Black cumin (Nigella sativa) [370 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 3 capsules a day. The first time I tried to take it the next day I developed a quite serious hordeolum on the lower eyelid that took several days to disappear. On the next occasion fortunately this didn’t happen, so I took it for a few days then. I didn’t have an O as black cumin doesn’t seem to be any good in reducing bloodshot eyes. Sometimes I was wondering if it actually induced it, but then came to the conclusion that it is simply ineffective in this regard. Fortunately at least it had a positive effect on gut issues to a moderate-good degree. Other symptoms were rather average and thus I can only give it a weak-moderate score in efficacy. At one evening before going to sleep I think I saw the beginnings of a hordeolum again, but it disappeared by morning. So I might be paranoid about this, but its good to keep in mind that such a side-effect may appear. Interestingly its most emphasized compound is thymoquinone which is a carvacrol derivative, that makes me wonder if carvacrol is not so bad after all.

Coenzyme Q10 Forte [60 mg per pill; Rd: 1]: I took 3 pills per day. Coenzyme Q10 is certainly beneficial, but only in an average manner. It had the most effect on gut issues as it had a moderate-good effect in that regard. It also had a weak positive effect on eye issues, but this was only apparent when the POIS force was not strong. I think I also felt a little better at times, but otherwise everything was rather average. Taking everything into account it has moderate efficacy. I also couldn’t note any side-effects, while taking it. At one time I also took it with niacinamide and they handled bloodshot eyes relatively well during work, although it took about 3-4 hours for this protective effect to develop.

Bakuchi (Psoralea corylifolia) [extract 10:1]: It is not really recommended for internal use due to possible liver toxicity. I took half a teaspoon mixed in water 2-3 times a day. I actually tried it last year and on the first occasion as I remember I had a negative experience with it, but it may have been due to something that I ate at the same time. Sometime later I tried it again, but it did nothing much then. Unfortunately I can’t find my notes about the specifics. This time I took it for three days and had an O on the first day. It doesn’t seem like it makes POIS any worse, but actually helps a little. It helped my gut issues to a weak-moderate degree, which is not much of course. I am not all too sure about eye issues as it doesn’t seem to have any great effect. It possibly had a weak mixed effect in this regard, but nothing too considerable. On the third day I developed a headache, but skipped the painkillers. Later I had an O, which resulted in a relatively light POIS. I think my mistake was that I also ate quite a big amount of black radish the same day and most of the benefit was probably due to that actually. The headache was probably caused by bakuchi though. I masturbated many times with a similar headache in the past and it may be interesting to mention that in the more intense moments this kind of headache also gets worse temporary. This may be related to blood pressure, but when measured it is usually alright even at such times. I also took some bakuchi before going to sleep and the headache persisted, although weaker, until morning, so I had to take a painkiller (a half pill of Algopyrin), which resolved it in an hour. Altogether it has a weak benefit with head-ache as a possible side-effect.
Two notable compounds in bakuchi are neobaisoflavone and bakuchiol. Neobaisoflavone has a capability of FAAH inhibition. Bakuchiol is the more important though. Interestingly its structure resembles that of resveratrol and retinol. Bakuchiol has antiandrogenic property. It also has an estrogenic effect although it is not clear how so as some study claims that is preferentially activates ERB, while another claims that it has a higher affinity for ERa, although this also seems dose dependent.

Muira Puama (Ptychopetalum olacoides) [10:1 root extract with 250 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily two capsules and had an O. I think it had a quite good effect on gut issues and a weaker positive effect on eye symptoms. I had an O on the third day that was followed by a lighter than usual POIS. From the first day side-effects also occurred. There were occasional weak cramps in the heart and interestingly in the groin. The heart cramps were not so strong as what I had experienced with Asafoetida though. Actually I think Asafoetida had a better effect on improving erection, although it was never really a problem for me. It also did not seem to increase endurance as well as Maca did. If anything the penis felt more sensitized, even so I managed to last to a normal duration. Semen volume may have been a bit more than usual and it did not have a burning quality. Interestingly right after the O I felt somehow differently than usual. I can’t exactly put it into words, but I think I could breathe easier and felt more oxygenated even though breathing is not a problem for me. Actually a weaker chest inflammation also occurred later as it happens many times, but this disappeared by the following morning. On the fourth day I also took some ginger powder (3 x half teaspoon) alongside Muira Puama, not at the same time though. The only difference I felt though was the lack of cramps, although it is not clear whether this was due to ginger or because of the O. Taken all together Muira Puama may have a similar efficacy as Ashwagandha, so I can give it a moderate-good rating for now.
Interestingly the benefit of Muira Puama is supposedly due to an increase in iNOS, that makes it similar to ginger. However increasing iNOS seems to increase inflammation and fibrosis. Also most other supplements that benefited me actually decrease iNOS, so it is not clear how much role it has in POIS.
It is said that Muira Puama can be taken rather safely up to 500-1050 mg daily and only side-effects prevented me from increasing the dosage. A guy supposedly took it for 20 years, so it can’t be that dangerous:

Juniper berries [dried]: I took 10-12 pieces a day divided for 3 times. Unfortunately I developed a chest inflammation while taking it even though my POIS was compensated at the time. I also ate some stuffed (sweet) cabbage at the time that can definitely cause some shift in POIS, but I don’t think on its own could justify the development of chest inflammation. Nevertheless I continued taking juniper berries and the chest inflammation still attenuated, so it doesn’t seem outright detrimental. Juniper berries seemed to help with gut issues, but just not the right way. I mean the stool definitely had a better consistency and it was also more yellowish, but it retained its burning quality. I suspect this is something similar with my earlier experience with the mixed mushroom complex, that helped me a real lot with POIS, but made me really prone to developing painful chest inflammations. Actually I think I had a similar experience with Dicetel pills as well, that could help with stool consistency and gut motility, but would do nothing much about the burning pain that is the major indicator of my POIS. Aside from this juniper berries also helped a little with eye symptoms, but this only means that the symptom fluctuated on a lower level than usual.

Mangosteen powder (Garcinia mangostana) [Rd: 1 teaspoon]: I took 1/3 teaspoon three times a day (1 teaspoon/day) mixed in warm water and had an O. This proved to be quite effective. It was most beneficial for the eyes. It couldn’t completely prevent eye symptoms, but certainly had a good effect. The day after O I had more than usual work and the eyes remained relatively well, which means that it is quite effective for exercise induced intolerance. The same can’t be said about muscle fatigue, but it is no big surprise as it only reduced the burning pain to a weak-moderate degree. It did not have a direct anti-depressive action, but I was a little less depressed than usual. I also could not note any particular side-effects. Its effectiveness on eyes is probably between that of Chinese skullcap and Triphala. I can’t say that it works exactly like Garcinia cambogia, but its efficacy seems to be around the same level.
Mangosteen is also an ERB agonist which could explain why it is beneficial. Surprisingly mangosteen is also a known histone acetylase inhibitor, which may be not good for me, though it should make it something similar to curcumin. Furthermore mangosteen is an aromatase inhibitor which could contribute to its effect.

Relora (Magnolia officinalis and Phellodendron amurense bark extract) [300 mg per capsules; Rd: 2-3]: I took 3 capsules a day and had an O. It is certainly beneficial, however it is just not great. Relora helps with eye symptoms, however mangosteen seemed better in this regard. Contrary to this Relora was better for gut issues than mangosteen. I couldn’t see much difference in effectiveness compared to plain Magnolia which was also cheaper by the way.

Eyebright, eyewort tea: I drank eyebright tea on a few separate occasions. Each time the amount I drank was about 4 cups (1.2 liter) made from one tablespoon of the herb. It can evidently help with eye symptoms, but only when the force of POIS is not too great. I also tried to apply it externally by washing the eyes with it, but couldn’t see any immediate change. It is also a little good for gut issues. I think sometimes I even experienced a mild anti-depressive effect, however it showed a great variance in occurrence, so I am not sure if this was really due to eyebright. One side-effect when I drink a greater amount at once is an unpleasant head tension. This was very similar to what I experienced with green barley powder, however it wasn’t that strong at least.

Catuaba bark (Trichilia catigua) [465 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took daily two and had two Os. I didn’t know what to expect from this, but it turned out better than expected. I had two Os on consecutive days, but it still managed to reduce POIS. It was really good for gut issues. It also helped with eye symptoms really well. The day after the first O I had exhaustive work and thus exercise induced intolerance complicated POIS. I took one Catuaba capsule in the morning and like with mangosteen at the beginning of work I developed bloodshot eyes, however by the end of it they were really clear. Unfortunately muscle fatigue was quite usual (bad) as it is not an easy symptom to deal with. Its overall efficacy is really good though and might be comparable to damiana, although I didn’t have an O with that. Interestingly I couldn’t notice any aphrodisiac effect during masturbation. I had two Os, but that was a voluntary choice and not desire driven. The penis neither felt sensitized (like with Muira Puama) or desensitized (like with maca). Regardless the aphrodisiac effect of Catuaba may be due to yohimbine. This is also perplexing considering I hardly had any benefit with the other Yohimbe product which should be abundant in it. Later I will definitely try to combine Catuaba with other aphrodisiacs like damiana and maca to see if it gets me even better and to see how they change sexual activities. I also thought about increasing the dosage as I didn’t experience any particular side-effects for now, but it is not recommended to take more than daily 1000 mg so I reconsidered.

Aurobin ointment [prednisolone caproate, lidocaine hydrochloride, dexpanthenol]: I used it sometimes in the past. It has to be applied around the anus. It could definitely reduce the burning pain on the outside and somewhat also decreased the inflammation in the general area, however it couldn’t do much about systemic symptoms as they originate from the guts. There was also a time when I tried to treat the current ass muscle inflammation with the ointment, however it seemed like it actually made the symptom even worse and that was the last I used it.

Forskolin (Coleus forskohlii) [In one capsule it has 250 mg Coleus forskohlii extract with 25 mg forskolin and also 100 ug chromium as chromium picolinate; Rd: 1]: I tested this a few month ago, but I have no time to test it more accurately. I took 3 capsules a day, but I did not have an O. I took it for 3 days and could hardly see any change at all. It certainly doesn’t do anything bad at least. On the fourth day I started testing something else and had an O. Interestingly POIS symptoms were quite light, however later the other supplement didn’t prove to be that useful so I wonder if forskolin had anything to do with it. I wanted to test forskolin again before reporting about it, but I can’t see when I am going to be able to. Another thing to consider about this supplement is chromium as only one capsule exceeds the daily intake, but at least this means that chromium is not detrimental.

Fish oil capsules: I tried to take fish oil capsules several times in the past, but whenever I did a heart pain always developed in a few days even if I took only one capsule. I wanted to take it as it is supposed to be good for memory and I actually experienced this benefit, however its serious side-effect made me unable to use it. There was one notable occasion when I was doing more than usual physical work and I had already had a heart pain in the morning. I still took another fish oil capsule, however during work the pain further increased. I had to do my job and the whole day I felt like dying. The pain was especially bad whenever I leant forward. That was when I decided to never take fish oil capsules ever again. I don’t think I had other problems with it, but for me it is simply intolerable.

I did a little update on the diet list as well (shown in blue).
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2022, 10:33:03 AM »
Aronia berries and powder [Rd: 1 tablespoon at most]: At first I took aronia berries by consuming half a tablespoon of berries 3 times a day (about 25 pieces altogether). They certainly have some positive effect on gut issues and I think it also helps with eye symptoms a little. I couldn’t figure much more, however as a side-effect it could induce a weak headache, discomfort. Afterwards I took 1 teaspoon of aronia powder 3 times a day. I could not experience the previous side-effect, however its effect was also reduced compared to the berries. For now I can only give aronia a weak score. As aronia berries are the best source for anthocyanins eating a few daily is probably a good idea, but higher doses should be avoided.

Glycine [powder]: I took one teaspoon of glycine 3 times a day mixed in either water or coffee. I had an O and it helped with POIS symptoms. It had a weak to moderate positive effect on gut issues and I think it also helped with bloodshot eyes a little. Its efficacy was not so great though. I could say that it was weak to moderate on overall. I also had some side-effects. In the beginning some vascular cramps occurred, but later this was not so apparent. I also developed a weaker chest inflammation after O and my impression is that this could be something similar that I had experienced with creatine, although to a lesser extent. Masturbation was also somewhat painful as I had a concurrent prepuce inflammation (red skin and some pain). Very rarely I had something similar in the past, but I will need to retest glycine later to see if this was only a coincidence or if there is some causality and the same is true for chest inflammation.

Resveratrol + inulin (Vitis vininfera L + chicory root) [One capsule contains 500 mg grape skin extract of which 50 mg is resveratrol, 240 mg inulin and 10 mg is L-leucine; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules and had an O. At first I was a bit worried about inulin, as I have a bad reaction to chicory coffee and some members also had bad reactions to inulin supplementation. However it turned out that it is unlikely that inulin is bad for me. This combination had a lesser effect on symptoms than the pure high dose resveratrol. I also couldn’t feel the distinct anti-photophobic effect with only this amount. Nevertheless most symptoms were better. The formula had a moderate positive effect on eyes and also a moderate one on gut issues. It also had some anti-depressive effect and I could experience the relaxed feeling, although to a lesser extent than with Polygonum cuspidatum. I also had some good sleep while I took it. Muscle fatigue was also less apparent during work even on the first day after O. I am not sure about the individual contribution of inulin, but it probably has at least a little positive effect. The only side-effect I could notice is the same as with the other resveratrol product, namely the intensification of the usual tinnitus in the left ear. I checked blood pressure when it was really loud, but it was still normal as always.

DIM Complex (diindolylmethane) [100 mg per capsule which contains DIM (25 %), starch, vitamin E, phosphatidyl choline, silica; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3 half capsules per day. I hoped for a better result, but it proved to have mixed effects, however neither was too strong. Initially there seems to be some positive effect, however later some negative effects switch in. In the beginning I took whole capsules, but this resulted in more than average flatulence.
I did not have an O, but masturbated some and while libido seemed to be alright symptoms began to increase as usual.
Considering my earlier experiences with indole-3-carbinol and choline chloride I lean to say the bad effects are more likely to be caused by phosphatidyl choline than DIM itself.

Eucommia Bark (Eucommia ulmoides) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3 capsules daily and had an O. It was beneficial and I couldn’t notice particular side-effects. Otherwise it only provided a smaller benefit and it couldn’t stop the marching of POIS. It helped with gut issues to a small to moderate degree and had a little positive effect on the eyes, however this was not significant. Eucommia somewhat reminded me of Magnolia with a little less efficacy, thus I give it a weak-moderate score.

Beta-sitosterol retest [400 mg plant sterols per capsule of which 50% is beta-sitosterol; Rd: 2]: I took half capsules 3 times a day (300 mg beta-sitosterol) and had an O. Even at the first time I took beta-sitosterol I could see a definite benefit towards POIS, however I also developed a headache which made me postpone further tests. This time I took even more daily without any headache occurring, so this may not be an actual side-effect just an unlucky coincidence. Beta-sitosterol proved to be really good for gut issues. Stool quality was really good and the burning pain was more than moderately reduced. Otherwise other symptoms didn’t benefit that much. I think it also had a little positive effect on eye issues and morning photophobia was also a bit reduced, but not the one caused by sunshine. I still had some depression and muscle fatigue was still present during work. I can give it a good rating, however I think ganoderma and maca, which also contain some amount of beta-sitosterol, were actually better.

Herbal Pause aka EstroG-100TM (a blend of Phlomis umbrosa, Cynanchum wilfordii and Angelica gigas Nakai (Roots)) [257 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took three capsules daily and had an O. This combination had a positive effect evidently, although I can’t say that it was strong, but still fairly noticeable. It had a weak-moderate effect on gut issues and had a moderate one on eye issues. I don’t think other symptoms were much different from their usual fluctuating manner. Still it occurred to me afterwards, that it may have blunted the feeling of coldness. My relatives said they were cold due to the weather, but I couldn’t feel it, even though being in acute POIS, however after stopping with herbal pause the next day I could definitely perceive the cold sensation. Its price doesn’t make it a treatment of choice, but it could be still better than red clover that had a similar effectiveness. One study says that this blend doesn’t have any estrogenic effect, however another study found that one of them (Cynanchum wilfordii) is actually an agonist of ERbeta.

Peruvian diatomaceous earth [powder, 94% SiO2; Rd: 1-2 tablespoons]: I took 3-4 teaspoons per day mixed in water and had an O. It proved to be quite good actually, mostly for gut issues. It began to act after about half a day. Diatomaceous earth reduced the burning pain relatively well, which also lessened the muscle pain that was apparent at rest. However I still perceived muscle pain and fatigue especially when working and after O the muscle pain was really strong. On bloodshot eyes it had either a minimal positive impact or non at all which was especially so after O. Depression and other symptoms were also rather average. Even though being an inert compound strangely it could still induce some flatulence like practically all the other stuff. While in itself diatomaceous earth is not so great I could imagine it being a good addition to other supplements, unless it reduces their effectiveness.
I mostly suspect its absorptive function at play, although comparing to charcoal capsules it had no rapid effect, but fortunately no adverse effects either. It is also a good source of calcium, but it is not clear if that could be the reason for its benefit. However silicon supposedly needs several weeks to be effective which does not make it the likely cause for any rapid changes.

Simethicone [280 mg per softgel; Rd: 1-2 per meal]: I took daily 3-4. I somewhat remembered so from years ago, but now I can confirm that in my particular case simethicone is not only bad at reducing flatulence, but to the contrary actually induces it quite a bit. This mostly happens 5-7 hours after consumption. It wouldn’t be such a big issue if it worked really well, however its overall effectiveness on POIS is just weak, which doesn’t make it a great choice for me. The most simethicone does is a little help with gut issues, but this is certainly not considerable. It didn’t seem to have any particular effect on eyes, depression or fatigue. Simethicone may still help some people, but be prepared that it may also backfire.

Resveratrol (yeast fermented) [125 mg per capsule of which 57% is Veri-te trans-resveratrol; Rd: 1]: I took 2-4 capsules without an O. I found it rather disappointing. I could get some good feeling out of it (around 6 hours after intake), but that was the most as it only had a lesser positive effect on eye and gut issues. For example muscle fatigue and photophobia were not much better than usual. Interestingly it also lacked the tinnitus intensifying side-effect of the other two resveratrol supplements. Overall it possibly had a weak-moderate positive effect, but the other two resveratrol products were definitely better.
The product is supposed to contain high purity (>98%) resveratrol that is produced by a novel yeast fermentation process which also makes it devoid of PAH and emodin. I was wondering if emodin could be responsible for the greater benefit of the resveratrol derived from Polygonum cuspidatum as they may have a synergistic effect, especially so as emodin is another ERbeta agonist, and other members had also benefited from it.

MACA 20:1 extract [400 mg per capsule containing 20:1 extract which supposedly equals 8000 mg dry root; Rd: 1]: I took 2-3 per day and had an O. While it is certainly beneficial at the moment I can’t see that much of a difference between the 20:1 and 6:1 extracts. This extract had about a moderate positive effect for both eye and gut issues and while I could feel better mentally from time to time this was not so distinct as with the 6:1 extract. I guess the quality of the original source matters quite a lot. Muscle fatigue was generally weaker, but could be still felt. I would still recommend trying different maca extracts as one may find one that works really well.

Rhubarb root tea [Half to one tablespoon herb added to about 1 liter water (3-4 cups)]: I consumed 2-3 cups for two days and had an O on the second day. Rhubarb tea is weakly effective for POIS as it had a weak-moderate positive effect on eyes and a weak effect for gut issues. I don’t think it did anything about muscle fatigue as it was quite in pain after exhaustive work, but it seemed to have some protective effect for the eyes both after work (not during) and after O. Depression was not especially strong, but could be still felt from time to time. The only real problem I see with rhubarb is that it is a laxative which is evident after about 7-10 hours of consumption. It is still more tolerable than senna though, but one has to be aware of this “side-effect”.
The real reason I wanted to test rhubarb is that it is considered a source of emodin. My varying experiences with resveratrol tell me that the Polygonum cuspidatum derived resveratrol may work best due to a synergy between resveratrol and emodin as it is a source of both. I also took two capsules of Veri-te resveratrol with a cup of rhubarb tea at one night before going to sleep and while POIS symptoms were noticeably reduced by morning I could not feel the distinct anti-photophobic effect, so this theory has yet to be proven by using other emodin and resveratrol sources.

Red grape skin powder [Rd: not given]: I took daily 3 teaspoons without an O. It certainly has a positive effect. Both eye and gut issues were reduced moderately, however it lacked a distinct anti-depressive or feeling good effect. Muscle fatigue/pain was also rather usual. It also lacked the tinnitus amplifying effect, however rarely I could feel some transient blood vessel tensions. I have noticed something similar with a number of other supplements and although it is not something serious, still it may be better to only take 1-2 teaspoons per day.
Earlier I had some occasional problems with grapes and raisins. As both grape skin and grape seed proved beneficial I have to suspect fructose as a possible culprit.
This is also a source of resveratrol, however its effects did not remind me of the other resveratrol products.

Hyaluronic acid Forte (sodium hyaluronate) [100 mg per pill; Rd: 1]: I took 3 half pills (about 150 mg) without an O. I couldn’t notice much change in the short period I took it. It seems to be a little beneficial for gut issues and maybe minimally to eyes. Muscle pain was rather usual and depression persisted. As HA is considered pro-carcinogenic I wanted to see if it does anything to the lymph nodes, but they remained rather unchanged. All in all it has a weak positive effect, but I don’t think I will incorporate HA to my stack.

Fermented black garlic [400 mg per capsule with 400 ug standardized S-allyl-L-cysteine content; Rd: 1-2]: I took 3 capsules per day. While it was certainly beneficial a little, I don’t think it has a particular edge over regular garlic capsules and was probably only slightly better. It had a weak-moderate positive effect on gut issues and a weak one on eyes. Depression and fatigue were quite usual. I did not have an O, but masturbated some and also did some extensive work, so symptoms were still present. I can give it a weak-moderate score, but I don’t consider this to be a cost effective addition for my treatment compared to regular garlic capsules.

Aged fermented black garlic [650 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 2 capsules per day and had an O. Unfortunately aged black garlic was somewhat of a letdown for me. I don’t think it was any better than the regular black garlic powder. It may have a little better benefit on gut issues compared to regular black garlic, but that is moderate at best. However its effect on the eyes was worse and sometimes I had to wonder if the bloodshot eyes were actually induced by aged garlic, something that I had not experienced with simple black garlic. Besides these muscle fatigue and depression were really just as usual. If I want to remain objective I can’t give it a better score than weak.

Pterostilbene [50 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 3-4 capsules per day and had an O. Pterostilbene is certainly useful, however it is less so than what I would have expected from a resveratrol analog with high bioavailability. It clearly had a small benefit on the eyes, however after O the eyes were still rather bloodshot, but later and faced with exercise intolerance it could still provide a small relief. It had a moderate-good effect on gut issues, but other symptoms like muscle fatigue, enervated thinking and lymph node enlargements remained rather average. Interestingly it did not cause an enhancement of tinnitus as what I had experienced with some other resveratrol products. One thing I took particular note of was the reduction of burning pain during urination and it was also easier due to this. This effect was most apparent when I woke up during the night to take a leak. It is quite unfortunate that pterostilbene did not particularly lessen photophobia in the morning even when I took two capsules before going to sleep. I could generally say that it has a solid moderate effect on POIS.

Cedar oil (100% cold pressed cedar oil) [100 g contains 53 mg vitamin E, 0.60 mg vitamin B2, 0.09 vitamin B1; Rd: 2.5-10 ml (about 3 teaspoon)]: I took about 3 teaspoons (about 8 ml) per day and had an O. It only has a smaller effect. Even before O one of the eyes became unusually bloody veined, but not the other. It is not clear if this was caused by cedar oil or that I had worked too much at the time. Surprisingly after O nothing really changed and everything was average as usual, so it may still have some protective effect nonetheless. Unless it has a long term effect I can only score it as weak and safflower oil was definitely better.

Yerba mate [Rd: half teaspoon per occasion]: I took 3 half teaspoons per day and had an O.
It was a pleasant surprise, although I did not expect much. It had a rather good effect generally on eyes and gut issues, but even more it had an evident anti-depressive effect. It is also indicated for fatigue reduction, but I did not experience this during the short time I took it. Lymphatic nodes also didn’t change and eating something bad could really reduce its effect. Similar to some other stuff this one reduced rhinitis, while increasing nasal congestion at the same time. Unfortunately the anti-depressive effect was only distinct the first time, but not so much afterwards. In a day I also took it with saffron and it had a really nice effect, although it still lacked a clear edge on depression. At the first time I could also experience a particular odor that was very reminiscent to what I had experienced with ecdysterone, although the reason is unclear. While its effect on POIS was clearly positive I still had a somewhat burning ejaculation that is less than common for me, so I would need to check it a few other times to see if there is any correlation. As yerba mate was indicated as potentially pro-carcinogenic if used over a longer time it may be better to keep its usage as occasional as possible.

Boswellia serrata (Indian frankincense extract) [400 mg per capsules with 260 mg boswellic acid; Rd: 2]: I took 3 capsules per day and had an O. It certainly has a noticeable positive effect. Both gut and eye issues were moderately better. I couldn’t notice a particular effect on depression and muscle fatigue may have been only a bit better. There occurred a really troubling side-effect though, as by the end of work I always developed a painful red skin around the anus which was rather painful. Otherwise I only have this symptom very rarely when I work really excessively, but this time it happened on three consecutive days, although it was only painful on two days and on one day only the skin was red without the pain. I think the problem was mostly caused by the one I took in the morning before work as the one I took in the afternoon after work and the other one in the evening did not seem to induce it. My guess is that boswellia actually helps with POIS, but it also causes a shift in exercise intolerance that can be seen as a deterioration of my condition. So it has a moderate-good effect, but I could also put it in the mixed category depending on symptom importance.

I also updated the food list with some elements (shown in orange)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 12:19:41 AM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2022, 11:44:23 AM »
Thank you very much for the documentation, Progecitor ! It's always interesting to read your reports.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2022, 03:52:52 AM »
Sea kelp [150 ug of natural iodine per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took one and a half pill per day, but did not have an O. Regardless sea kelp was not very remarkable or it just needs more time to exert a positive effect. Gut issues seemed to be better to a weak-moderate level, while eye issues were only a little better. Lymphatic issues did not seem to change at all. I can score sea kelp as weakly effective with short term usage and I think Spirulina was actually better.

Lithium orotate [5 mg lithium per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily two (10 mg), but did not have an O. I expected somewhat more from lithium, but it did not turn out so good, although the fault may be the short term usage. I think it had a weak positive effect. The stool was definitely looser, but it was burning as usual. I did not see a change in either depression, muscle fatigue or lymphatic issues. When faced with exercise intolerance my symptoms deteriorated practically as usual and I had quite bad bloodshot eyes. Thus short term usage only provides a weak relief.

Giloy (Tinospora cordifolia) (aka Guduchi) [340 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 3 per day and had an O. Giloy is another supplement that works really well. It had an evident positive effect on both gut and eye issues. It actually made me feel better. Allergic rhinitis was also reduced. It couldn’t overcome muscle fatigue and I was not perfectly well, but still it made a significant difference even on its own. It also did not help with lymphatic problems that only seem to change when I use something very potent. Still giloy belongs among the best, so I hope others will also try it. As Giloy is considered an aphrodisiac its benefit isn’t that much of a surprise by now. Unfortunately there is also indication for hepatotoxicity with long-term use, though occasional application to boost POIS recovery could be still safe.

Turmeric (Curcuma longa) [720 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took 2 per day, but did not have an O. I heard that commercial spices are sometimes fakes, so I thought it was best to try a supplement form from a trusted brand. I didn’t expect much and I got just that as turmeric hardly made a difference in usual symptoms. At least it doesn’t seem to be outright bad, but the only possible change was a slight benefit to gut issues and nothing more. As a possible side-effect I also developed a rather weak headache on two days that may have been due to turmeric. I could say that turmeric has a weak effect, but at this point I see no reason to include it in my stack.

Ginseng Royal Jelly [200 mg Panax ginseng extract and 200 mg royal jelly per capsule; Rd: 1-2]: I took 2 per day and had an O. Its effect seemed a little inconsistent, but it was certainly beneficial. It had a weak-moderate effect on both gut and eye issues. At some point it also seemed to reduce rhinitis. It also helped with exercise intolerance induced bloodshot eyes, although not to a very great extent. I would say that it has a moderate effect although it needs to be taken continuously for a few days to see its benefit. It may be possible that a greater dosage could result in a more consistent effect.

Horny goat tincture [1 ml contains 1:5 extract of Epimedium, Tribulus and Damiana that equals to 250 mg dried herbs (83 mg each); Rd: 3 ml]: I took 1 ml (25 drops) three times per day and had an O. "Unfortunately" this supplement also contains Tribulus and Damiana, so the individual contribution of Epimedium is not clear. This one had a moderate effect on both gut and eye issues, but it simply didn’t feel good enough. Later I increased the dose to 40 drops then to 50 drops three times a day and while it felt even better I can’t say that it made a very significant change as I still suffered from some bloodshot eyes and muscle fatigue. I can’t say that I had experienced any significant side-effects, but epimedium may cause some cardiovascular issues, so it is probably not wise to use a high dose for a prolonged time. I could also notice an increase in libido, but it didn’t seem to effect sexual activity otherwise. I can give this a moderate-good score even when used in double dosage.

Goji berry: I consumed about 75-100 pieces of berries divided to 3-4 times a day. I also had an O that was slightly burning in quality. Goji berries only have a weak effect in my case. Gut issues were weakly or maybe weak-moderately better, however eye issues were practically as usual. I believe cardamom, which is another source of quercetin, was actually better for me as a comparison.

Jiaogulan tea (Gynostemma pentaphyllum) [used by adding 1 teaspoon to 1 liter of hot water; Rd: 2-3 cup]: I drank at least 3 cups worth of the tea, but did not have an O. My experience was positive, although it was less than I would have preferred. It had a moderate benefit on gut issues, but only a small one on eye issues. It could also noticeable reduce allergic rhinitis. At the first time I could experience some anti-depressive effect, but later it wasn’t so. Muscle fatigue and weakness were also rather unchanged. For now I can score its benefit as weak-moderate.

Lyophilized Shiitake slices: I ate 10 slices (about 1g dry matter) raw and soaked in water three times a day (about 3g). Its effect was rather unremarkable compared to some of the other medicinal mushrooms. I think it had a small benefit on both gut and eye issues, but nothing else. It also had a lasting (hours) aftertaste which was somewhat uncomfortable for my throat. Next time I may need to try the powdered form, but it may just not work that well for me or needs a prolonged time to exert its effects.

Sea-buckthorn leaves tea (Hippophae rhamnoides) [mostly the leaves with a few pieces of dried fruits]: I made the tea with one or two tablespoons of herb added to half or one liter of water and consumed three-four cups a day. I tried both the hot and cold water tea, but could not see much of a difference. Sea-buckthorn proved to be a little beneficial for both gut and eye issues, but this wasn’t considerable even in a greater volume. I experienced a stronger tinnitus particularly at night and found the blood pressure to be lower than usual, although not to the extent to suffer from it, but one may need to be careful when consuming a lot. Last year I also ate the powder of the fruit and it evidently increased POIS. As it was way expired I think the cause was something like aflatoxin and not the fruit itself as I earlier believed. 

Pau D'Arco (Tabebuia heptaphylla) [500 mg inner bark per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took three capsules per day and had an O. It provided a smaller benefit for the eyes and about a weak-moderate help for gut issues. Pau D’Arco had a weak-moderate effect, but I am not sure it is worth taking in the long run due to unpredictable safety. The reason I tired Pau D’Arco is that it can inhibit AP-1, although this alone doesn’t seem to be able to solve my problems. As a possible side-effect sometimes I could experience a sudden pressure-like feeling in the head, although later this didn’t seem to occur, so it may have been only a passing effect or not the actual fault of Pau D’Arco.

Camu-camu [fruit powder; Rd: 1 teaspoon]: I took 3 teaspoons daily and had an O. The amount I consumed contains about 2000 mg of vitamin C and its effect (and taste) was rather similar to Triphala and Vitamin C-1000+. Gut and eye issues were moderately better and it prevented the appearance of more severe symptoms. The first morning I was certainly feeling better than usual, although it was not perfect of course. I think camu-camu deserves a moderate score, although the used dosage is probably too much for long-term application.

Cascara (coffee cherry fruit): I drank 3-4 cups daily made from 2 tablespoons of cascara. This was rather disappointing for me as it clearly doesn’t have any anti-depressive effect in my case. It was also rather useless for other symptoms as well. Bloodshot eyes were practically average and gut issues also seemed rather unchanged. Well it may work better for other POISers than me, but if nothing else it has a really good taste. I guess simply increasing BDNF is not enough for an anti-depressive effect in my case.

MSM: I took 1-1.5 teaspoons of MSM per day without an O. I also used it in the past and I think it has a little positive effect on POIS. Even though it is clearly not the best remedy, still I think it has at least some effect on joint pain (e.g. knees), which is not a POIS symptom for me, but is sometimes a result of overexertion at work.

Burdock tincture (Arctium Lappa) [1 ml equals 250 burdock; Rd: 25 drops (1 ml) three times a day (equivalent 750 mg)]: I took 3-5 ml per day and had an O. It had a weaker effect on gut issues and a weak-moderate on bloodshot eyes. Burdock seems to help a little with most symptoms. At times it felt like it also ameliorated depression a little, but this effect was not distinct. However the overall change as I feel it is still poor. Its effect seemed rather similar to feverfew tincture, but possibly slightly less effective. Nevertheless it deserves a weak-moderate score.

Perilla: I consumed 3 teaspoons of oil per day spread on bread and had an O. Perilla had a moderate effect on gut issues and a weak-moderate effect on eyes. I think I also experienced a weaker anti-depressive effect and I was somehow feeling better. Overall symptom reduction was less than 50 % though. It was possibly a little better than safflower oil and it deserves a moderate-good score. The two most notable compounds in it are probably rosmarinic acid and luteolin. Perilla may also lose its effectiveness over time according to CFS people.

Dong quai (Angelica sinensis root) [530 mg per capsule; Rd: 1-5] + Angelica rhizome tea:
I took daily five capsules. I did not have an O, but masturbated twice during the trial. I also cooked a tea from the rhizome (1 tablespoon in 1 liter of water), but the overall experience was not much different. It had a weak positive effect on the eyes, but this only occurred when I didn’t masturbate, otherwise it couldn’t deal with bloodshot eyes. Its effect on the gut issues was possibly weak-moderate, but eating some chili and masturbation mostly obliterated its positive effect. Drinking a larger amount of its tea at once seems to provide a little better relief, but still not great and its toxicity is in question, although I don’t think I had experienced any particular side-effects during the trial.

Cat’s claw (Uncaria tomentosa bark) [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 2]: I took daily 3 caps and had two Os. Cat’s claw certainly has a moderate-good effect on gut issues and as far as I could judge it has about a weak-moderate effect on bloodshot eyes. I think it possibly has a very weak anti-depressive effect about 4 hours after intake, but this couldn’t change my general low mood. As a possible side-effect I also developed a weak ass muscle inflammation, but it is not clear if it was really due to cat’s claw. While my experience after the first O was not so great the protective effect after the second time seemed much better. I was transitioning to calcium pyruvate at the time, but only later realized that the protective effect must have been due to cat’s claw. It is not a miracle in itself of course, but still I can give it a moderate-good rating. Its effectiveness is possibly around that of hesperidin, but one needs to take it for several days to see the benefit and not only a few hours before the actual O.

Calcium pyruvate [500 mg per capsule; Rd: 3]: I took 3-4 capsules daily. I hoped for some noticeable surge of energy or anti-depression, but in the end I couldn’t experience anything like that. It was somewhat beneficial though just not greatly. It seemed to have a weak benefit on both gut issues and bloodshot eyes. It did not reduce muscle fatigue/pain and depression. Lymphatic issues were also average. For now I can only give it a weak score.

Calcium D-Glucarate [200 mg per capsule with 24 mg of calcium]: I took daily 3 and had an O. While it was somewhat more beneficial than calcium pyruvate, even so it didn’t provide a significant relief. This one had a weak positive effect on the eyes and a weak-moderate on gut issues. When I took two capsules at once the benefit seemed a little better as it had a weak-moderate effect on the eyes. Other issues like muscle fatigue, depression and lymphatic issues appeared rather average, thus I can only give it a weak-moderate score. Long term usage may provide a better relief, although I am not convinced. Calcium D-glucarate is known to reduce excessive hormones, especially estrogen, so it should theoretically help reduce estrogen dominance, however this may be of lesser significance if the disbalance is caused by a lack of testosterone or ERbeta activity.

Pulsatilla 30CH (Pulsatilla pratensis) [additives: lactose 0.04 g per 5 pillets and sacharose; Rd: 3 x 5 pillet]: I took daily 3-4 x 5 pillet and had an O. I don’t think it had any particular effect on eye symptoms, however surprisingly it was apparently somewhat beneficial for gut issues. Other symptoms were as usual and the only other thing I noticed was that the nightly urinations seemed less burning and easier, although this may have been a subjective experience. I definitely had a hard time in achieving O, but this may have nothing to do with Pulsatilla as I have overdone masturbation recently and the previous O was also difficult to achieve. As of now I can give it a weak score. However the actually effective compound is in question as homeopathics above C12 potency are not supposed to contain any active compounds. Later I may test a lesser potency (lesser diluted) Pulsatilla in combination with Thuja to confirm any rational for homeopathics.

Organic Saw palmetto (Serenoa repens L.) [1 pill contains: 320 mg saw palmetto fruit extract (equals 3200 mg powder), 150 mg smallflower hairy willowherb herb extract (equals 1500 mg powder), 175 mg common nettle extract (equals 2100 mg herb powder), 10 mg zinc citrate, 55 ug selenium; Rd: 1]:
I took daily 2 pills but only masturbated without an O. I took one or two boxes of saw palmetto a few years ago and although exact details elude me now, I did not find it particularly useful at the time. My current experience was also rather disappointing. It was totally useless for eye symptoms and I had to wonder if they were not actually enhanced. Gut issues weren’t much better either, although stool consistency was definitely better, however the more prognostic burning practically remained the same. It is true though that urination seemed a bit easier, but the burning feeling could be also felt, although it may have been a bit reduced. An unpleasant side-effect is that I could often feel a sharp stab in the prostate, which contrary to the burning pain is not a regular POIS symptom in my case. I have to note that I did not take it for a long time due to the eye symptoms, so long-term experience may be different, still it is certainly not the best treatment for me. For now I would put it in the mixed category and could most liken its overall effect to sodium butyrate. As for the other constituents I can say that before knowing the name of the disease I used smallflower hairy willowherb tea regularly to ameliorate my symptoms. While it was quite useful for a time I noticed its effect to plummet after a while. I think I mostly had a bad reaction to common nettle tea in the past, although I did not have the time to verify this. Selenium pills seemed a little useful when I took a box of it several years ago and zinc gives me some specific trouble, although this did not occur at this time probably due to the small amount.

Slippery Elm (Ulmus rubra bark) [400 mg per capsule; Rd: 2-6]: I took daily 4-6 and had an O. I am not completely sure, but I think it had either a weak to moderate or moderate positive effect on gut issues. Unfortunately though it was pretty useless for eye issues at the same time. Other symptoms were also rather average. I think I still got some weaker mood enhancement out of it from time to time, though it lacked an apparent anti-depressive effect. As a possible side-effect I think it can cause a weaker temporary headache when taken in a higher dose, although this was certainly not serious. A side note is that somehow its taste reminded me to one of the earlier supplements I took, but unfortunately at the moment I can’t recall exactly what it was. The taste though may imply a similar composition. So all in all I would give it a weak-moderate score for now.

Black Cohosh (Cimicifuga racemosa root) [540 mg per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took daily 2 and had an O. This one proved to be quite alright even if not fantastic. Gut issues were about weak-moderately better, however it really helped in reducing bloodshot eyes even if not perfectly. I think it also had a weaker anti-depressive effect, although certainly not distinct, but rather subdued. Eyesight also remained rather blurry. Morning photophobia seemed to be a little reduced, but it wasn’t worth much in direct sunshine. Allergic rhinitis also appeared to a be a little reduced and to confirm my earlier experience at one time it caused some nasal congestion in doing so. Muscle fatigue and lymphatic issues remained mostly the same. As a possible side-effect a few times I experienced some minor heart discomfort, but it was not consistent, so I am not sure if it was really a side-effect of black cohosh. Bradycardia is an indicated side-effect, but measured BP and pulse were alright. At another time some pain occurred somewhere around the descending colon, but I am not sure if it was instead caused by some food I ate. It would have to be tested for a longer time to ascertain this. Anyway even if not the treatment of choice black cohosh certainly shows some benefit which should be indicative of the underlying mechanism. I think its effectiveness is somewhat around that of mangosteen or hesperedin, although these latter certainly seem the safer choices.
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2022, 06:04:34 AM »
Thank you very much for the documentation, Progecitor ! It's always interesting to read your reports.

I am glad if it helps anyone. I only wish more people would test and report about the stuff that was really beneficial for me even if they proved ineffective for others or caused any adverse effects. It is quite clear that I have success with many of the same stuff as Quantum or Berlin1984. Even if our cases are not perfectly the same there ought to be more of us who would greatly benefit from the same supplements.
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.


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Re: Progecitor's summary
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2022, 01:44:41 PM »
Pine Bark extract [70 mg per capsule with 50 mg pine bark extract and 20 mg vitamin E; Rd:1]: I took daily 2-3, but did not have an O. It was definitely useful, however not too much. I did not have an O, but I was working more than usual during the trial, so exercise intolerance was stronger. Regarding pine bark extract its effect on both gut and eye issues only seemed weak. It certainly did not have any anti-depressive effect and muscle fatigue was also as usual. One detail I did notice is that the nightly urinations were practically none burning. It wasn’t so during the days as exercise intolerance enhances this pain. Another observation was a reduced rhinitis as the nose was quite clear, however at the same time I experienced some flares of chest inflammation, so it wasn’t any effective in that regard. Considering everything I can only give it a weak-moderate score and I am note sure if it is worth adding to a stack especially considering its price.

Lycopene [10 mg per softgel capsule; Rd:1-4]: I took daily 2-3 and had an O. Lycopene proved to be quite useful. Its effect on gut issues was weak-moderate at best, however it was quite good for the eyes.  What is more lycopene also provided an improvement in mood. Most interestingly its overall effect resembled much to resveratrol (Polygonum cuspidatum), but somewhat weaker. It also helped me to sleep through the night and the difference was most apparent in the mornings. Morning photophobia seemed a bit reduced, but it wasn’t enough when I was going outside. The anti-depressive effect was also not very distinct during the day and the blurry sight was still present from time to time. Lymphatic issues and muscle fatigue were mostly average. While lycopene may be not the most effective its lack of any apparent side-effect makes it worthy to add it to my future stack.

Quinoa: I cooked 250 mg of dry quinoa like rice and ate it during two days and had an O. While quinoa seems to have some benefit it doesn’t seem to be comparable to ecdysterone capsules. For one it doesn’t provide an anti-depressive effect. It also had a lesser effect on both gut and eye issues. Nevertheless quinoa appeared at least somewhat useful, but I can only give it a weak rating.

Corn Silk tea: I made the teas by adding 1 tablespoon to about 1 liter of boiling water and drank it throughout the day. I also had an O, but exercise intolerance was more of an issue at the time. I expected something more, but nevertheless it has some positive effect. I far as I can tell it had a weak-moderate benefit on both eye and gut issues. It didn’t seem to affect depression or lymphatic issues much. As corn silk can presumably decrease lactic acid I hoped that it may reduce exercise intolerance, however at the time I was working a lot of physical work in the heat and by the end of the day I felt so weak that I could hardly stand. Thus it may help a little with this issue, but certainly not to a significant level. I don’t think I experienced any side-effect, although a weaker headache occurred on one day, but this may have been due to other reasons. If someone wants to try herbal teas it is a good choice as it is indicated for the treatment of prostatitis of what many of us clearly have, but as of now I can only give it a weak-moderate score when used as a singular treatment.

Pomegranate (Punica Granatum L.) [400 mg extract per capsule of which 40% are polyphenols; Rd:2]: I took daily 2-3 caps (800-1200 mg) and had an O. It definitely helped although not to a great extent. Its effect on gut issues was moderate at best. At first it seemed like it has no effect on eye issues at all, especially after O. However on the first POIS day I took two caps at once and then it showed some benefit at least. Other symptoms appeared mostly average. I can score it weak-moderate in the used dosage, although it may be possible that a greater dosage would show a more clear benefit.

Oat straw (Avena sativa) (whole stem) [350 mg per capsule; Rd:1]: I took daily 3 caps, but only masturbated without an O. Unfortunately it wasn’t that useful as I hoped that it may be. Eye issues were mostly the same or only slightly better, while gut issues, although noticeable better, but at most only to a weak-moderate level. Other symptoms like depression were mostly the same. As oat straw is regarded as an aphrodisiac I wanted to check its effects on libido, however I couldn’t particularly note either an increase or decrease in it while masturbating and the desire seemed rather normal. Oat straw is also considered a good source of beta glucan, so it is possible that it only shows its benefit at long-term. At least oat straw is considered rather safe which could be important when one wants to combine several supplements. For now though I can only give a weak score to its individual effectiveness.

Ginkgo Biloba (leaves) [300 mg per capsules; Rd:1]: I took daily 2 caps and had an O. Right on the first day when I had the O I could see a clear benefit with ginkgo biloba. The eyes became much clearer and remained mostly so even after ejaculation. It also had an evident benefit on gut issues, although I wouldn’t say that it was more than moderate. It also definitely reduced rhinitis, however I couldn’t see a clear benefit on depression. Also on later days when faced with exercise intolerance its initial efficacy clearly diminished and the eyes were more bloodshot. I don’t think that further increasing the dosage is an option, but it may be worth adding it to some combination. Its individual efficacy is good, but not consistent in which regard I could most liken it to milk thistle.

Devil's tongue extract – glucomannan gum (Amorphophallus konjac) [500 mg per capsules; Rd: 6 (2x3)]: I took daily 6 capsules (3 x 2), but did not have an O. I was still in acute POIS and under the duress of physical work so I can tell that it wasn’t particularly effective. Eye symptoms appeared almost like always and its effect on gut issues was only weak. Specifically the stool was looser than usual, but the burning pain didn’t change much. Other symptoms were also rather average, so I don’t think devil’s tongue has much of an effect on POIS, but at least it appears safe to use.

Chios Mastiha lozenges (mastic gum) [2200 mg per lozenge with 0.2% chios mastiha oil and with additional sweeteners; Rd: not given]: I took daily 4 lozenges and had an O. I did not expect mastiha to be really effective in my case, so it was a pleasant surprise that it turned out to be quite good. It had an apparent good effect on gut issues and it also reduced eye symptoms about moderately. I can’t say that I was feeling perfectly well after the O, but still it made a noticeable difference. I could not see much of a change in other symptoms like muscle fatigue or lymphatic issues. It also did not have a distinct anti-depressive effect, though I was also not too much depressed either. In my particular case mastiha seems to work just like all the other stuff meaning that it is most effective at about 6-12 hours and as long as it is in my system. In the mornings I definitely felt a little better than average, however this wasn’t as strong as with lycopene and although the eyes weren’t that bloodshot they still felt tired and somewhat photophobic. It seemed at least a bit more effective than cat’s claw though and its overall effect is possibly around that of berberine. As this one was the cheapest mastiha product I could get I will need to test a more expensive and quality one to see the full effectiveness of mastiha. Furthermore the ingredients list states that it contains 95.8g/100g of polyols which may mean that I don’t have any problem with this FODMAP after all.

Caprylic acid (from medium-chain triglycerides) [600 mg per softgel capsules; Rd: 2]: I took daily 3 capsules (1800 mg), but did not have an O. This one had a weak-moderate or maybe even a moderate benefit on gut issues, however eye issues were the same as always. Muscle pain and most other issues also appeared the same. Even so I could notice a reduction in allergic rhinitis, however a concurrent weaker chest inflammation was not affected. Unfortunately as a side-effect I could experience a very dull and almost imperceptible headache on several occasions, which makes its use somewhat uncomfortable. For now I would only give it a weak rating.

Astragalus root (Astragalus membranaceus) [470 mg per capsules; Rd: 1]: I took daily 2-3 and had an O. I think Astragalus had a weak positive effect on both eye and gut issues, but the change was rather insignificant. I still had the concurrent lymphatic inflammation and Astragalus did not seem to reduce it. It may have increased libido a bit, but I didn’t feel any considerable change. The ejaculatory experience and post O POIS was rather average, so I don’t think that Astragalus have that much of an impact and I can only score it as weak when taken only for short-term.

Allerdin [1 pill contains the extracts of the following: 240 mg Malabar nut leaf, 200 mg Chinese basil, 200 mg rosemary, 160 mg green tea, 100 mg Ginkgo, 100 mg licorice; Rd: 2]: I took 3 pill per day and had an O. This is an anti-allergy formula, but unfortunately it did not prove especially useful. At first I thought that it actually worsened bloodshot eyes, however later this didn’t prove likely. Nevertheless it was pretty much useless for eye symptoms as I couldn’t see them getting any better. At least it proved about moderately beneficial for gut issues, but other symptoms seemed mostly unchanged. I still had a weaker lymphatic inflammation in one of the breast and I felt that the pills could have sustained it. Green tea is the most likely culprit in this as I had similar experiences in the past. The positive effect on gut issues were probably mostly due to licorice as it helped a lot before. At least with this formulae I didn’t experience any heart issues. Another possible side-effect was a sometimes cramping blood vessel on the left foot, although blood pressure was alright. Well it was an interesting try at least, but at most it had only a weak-moderate effect, which doesn’t make it desirable for me.

Neem powder (organic neem leaves) [Nutritional value per 100 g: 2 g fiber, 9.4 g protein, 0.257 mg thiamin (B1), 0.66 mg Riboflavin (B2), 2.77 g Niacin (B3), 1.2 mg Pyridoxine (B6), 51.7 mg vitamin C, 185 mg calcium, 0.64 mg zinc; Rd: ¼ teaspoon two times]: I took about 1/3 teaspoon of neem powder per day, but did not have an O. I put the powder in hot water following the recommendation. It was only a little beneficial for gut issues, however it proved to have a somewhat better effect on bloodshot eyes, though this was more apparent during the days as I still had morning photophobia and eye tiredness. It certainly didn’t have any anti-depressive effect and muscle fatigue was also general. One of the neck lymph nodes was a little inflamed during the time, however the breast lymph node inflammation finally got less noticeable, so I don’t think it particularly affects this issue either. I don’t think I had experienced any particular side-effects, although its taste is very sour, which wouldn’t want me to make it an every day item unless I saw some major benefit. It is true though that others only saw its benefit after 2 weeks of regular consumption, but I simply don’t have the time to check for every detail. It may be possible that long-term effects are simply due to its content of zinc and vitamin B in which case it could take some time for them to accumulate in the body. Everything taken together I can give it a weak-moderate score when taken short-term, though it may work better with continuous usage.

Siberian fir needle oil lozenges [35 mg oil per lozenge; Rd: 1-3]: I took 3-4 per day without an O. Symptoms remained mostly average. I think it has a little benefit on both gut and eye issues, but this doesn’t account to much compared to the better stuff. At least I don’t think I experienced any side-effect, but its effectiveness is only weak.

Astaxanthin Forte (obtained from Haematococcus pluvialis algae) [4 mg astaxanthin per gel capsule; Rd:1]: I took 2 per day without an O. This is just another kind of astaxanthin. I felt it less effective than the other product, but it still had a noticeable benefit. It helped with gut issues about moderately, but it reduced the burning pain less so than the other one. It also had a moderate benefit on bloodshot eyes. I couldn’t notice a particular effect on depression, but it wasn’t really affected by the other one either. I can still give this a good score at least.

Resveratrol retest (Polygonum cuspidatum root extract) (new box of capsules!) [500 mg per caps; Rd: 1]: I took 2 caps per day without an O, although exercise intolerance is a constant issue nowadays, so I don’t lack POIS/CFS symptoms anyway. I bought another box of the same brand (Swanson) that proved really effective earlier, although the labeling was slightly different. It still works somewhat, but my experience was not so great as previously. Unfortunately this time I couldn’t experience the reduction in photophobia and still experienced it both in the morning and throughout the days. Bloodshot eyes were also not particularly reduced, but this experience was similar to earlier. At least it can provide a relaxing feeling which makes me feel better generally and sleeping was also easier. Gut issues were better, but only weakly. When I took it along with maca exercise intolerance was more bearable. Its relatively poor efficacy is rather surprising and disappointing considering my earlier success. One reason may be the excessive work I was doing at the time and the ensuing exercise intolerance. Another cause may be that the benefit mostly comes from a secondary, not standardized compound like emodin or I simply developed some drug-resistance as it happens most of the time, although the other box kept working till the last capsule. Somewhat interestingly it also seemed to lack the tinnitus enhancing side-effect I had experienced earlier which may imply the involvement of a non-standardized compound. As a comparison this kind of resveratrol’s earlier efficacy was definitely better than of lycopene, however this time it actually seemed less effective than that.

Boron [30 mg Bororganic Glycine with 3 mg of Boron per capsule; Rd: 1]: I took 2 caps per day and had an O. Boron turned out to be rather good. The eyes remained rather clear even after the O and it also helped with gut issues about moderately. I still had some depression and other symptoms remained rather general. Boron reduced reduced rhinitis and cleared the nose, however at the same time it made me susceptible to chest inflammation. I had a concurrent episode even before taking boron and while it didn’t seem to directly induce the symptom I think it shifted POIS in a similar way that I had experienced with several other supplements earlier. It may be worth to note that during masturbation the libido and control were rather good, however I had a burning ejaculate which is not common. I suspect it was not caused by boron as by now I can see some accumulating effect if I had exercise intolerance in the previous days. Especially so as there is a direct correlation between the burning urine and exercise intolerance as well.
All in all I wouldn’t claim it to be spectacular on its own, but I could easily imagine boron as part of a stack and currently I can score it as moderately beneficial.

7-KETO (DHEA Acetate-7-one)  [25 mg per capsule; Rd: 3]: I took 2 caps per day and had an O. I bought another box of DHEA from a more trustworthy brand. Unfortunately my experience was not much different than the other product I had tried before. I could ascertain that DHEA doesn’t help with bloodshot eyes, but at least it also doesn’t induce it as far as I could tell. Gut issues were definitely better a little, but this was so with the other product as well. Most other symptoms were also present, so it didn’t help with them (e.g. muscle fatigue, photophobia, depression). I still had the lymphatic inflammation in the chest and while it didn’t seem to induce the problem DHEA also did not make it any better either. The reason I didn’t take more is that I had experienced some rather scary heart palpitations. At first I wasn’t even sure if it was caused by DHEA, but by checking it on the net it turns out to be a common side-effect of its consumption. Even though I had some hope for DHEA earlier, it just doesn’t seem to help appreciably. Thus I can only give it a weak score.

Fructose [powder, 100%]: I consumed daily 5 teaspoons mixed in drinks, but did not have an O. I fully expected to have an adverse reaction to fructose, so I was rather surprised when it turned out that it may actually help somewhat. Both gut and eye issues seemed a little better. My experience was most similar to that of glycine. Of course long-term experiences may differ, however several fruits induce POIS only hours after consumption and I still can’t figure the real reason behind that.

Bladderwrack (Fucus vesiculosus) [25 drops equal 1 ml or 250 mg of bladderwrack; Rd: 3 x 25 drops]: I took about daily 3-4 x 25 drops without an O. Gut issues definitely seemed to be better about moderately. Eye issues also seemed a little better at times, but this was not consistent. Other issues remained mostly the same. Unfortunately I still had the ongoing chest inflammation and it couldn’t help to resolve it. For now I would score it as weak-moderate.

Kalmegh Churna or Indian Echinacea (Andrographis paniculata) [2.7 g Kalmegh contains 22.41 mg polyphenols; Rd: about one teaspoon (around 2.7 g)]: I took daily one and a half teaspoons (around 5 g) in hot water without an O, although masturbated some to induce symptoms. This one certainly works, although the change is not major, but I could see the benefits. It had about a moderate-good effect on gut issues and eye issues also seemed better, but not significantly. I also felt a little better and was a little less fatigued than usual. Finally the ongoing chest inflammation also subsided, though the hard lymphatic nodes could be still felt by touch. I think Andrographis at least contributed to this amelioration. The overall change wasn’t that great and I also used a higher than recommended dose, so I can score it to have a moderate-good effect leaning to the good side.

Chaga (Inonotus obliquus) [100 % bio chaga powder; Rd: 1/2-1 teaspoon]: In a mix I had already benefited from chaga, but I wanted to confirm its individual role. I took half a teaspoon 3 times a day (1.5 tsp) without an O. It proved to have about a moderate positive effect on gut issues, but the mixed mushrooms were certainly better as a comparison. Eye issues were also better, but while the white of the eye seemed brighter, I still experienced bloody veins with varying intensity. Mornings were a little better, but of course this was not a major change. Chaga seemed better than Andrographis, but I still can’t give it a better score than good, so it is rather similar to the other medicinal mushrooms.

Shaggy mane or chicken drumstick mushroom (Coprinus comatus pulvis) [300 mg per capsule including 30 mg polysaccharides and 9 mg comatin; Rd:2x2]: I took daily 4 (mostly 1+2+1) and had an O. Even before the day of O it seemed less effective than Chaga. Still it had some benefit, but I wouldn’t claim it to be especially useful. It had about a moderate effect on gut issues and possibly only a weaker one on eyes. Photophobia was usual and fatigue and depression as well. I can score it to about weak-moderate. Some study mentions that as a side-effect it may enhance atopic diseases, however I don’t believe this applies to my particular case.

Masticha original (mastic gum) (Pistacia lentiscus var. Chia) [350 mg per capsules; Rd: 3x2(6 caps = 2100 mg)]: I took daily 6 and had an O. It was certainly beneficial, however I couldn’t see that much of a difference compared to the lozenges. Gut issues were noticeably better to about a moderate-good level, but they were not perfect as the burning pain could be still felt. Interestingly the urine lacked the burning feeling several times with the exception after working. I worked a few hours on the first day and while the muscle fatigue seemed a little better, at the same time I felt really weak. Bloodshot eyes were also reduced somewhat, though not significantly. Mornings felt a little better than usual, but I don’t think I had noticed any particular anti-depressive effect. For now I can give it a good rating considering its possible long-term benefit, though as a singular treatment it doesn’t appear to be enough. As a comparison I can say that lycopene seemed better as a short-term treatment.
It may be worth mentioning that a few hours after the O I felt some cramping pain at the groin, although afterwards this did not occur, so the casual relationship is not clear.

Aloe Vera extract [25 mg per softgel capsule, 200:1 concentrate equivalent to 5 g of fresh inner leaf gel; Rd:2]: I took daily 3 and had an O. I think it had a moderate positive effect on gut issues, however it was rather useless for the eye symptoms as one of the eye was somewhat bloodshot all through the test, although the other remained quite alright. Another consistent benefit was a definite reduction in the burning quality of the urine with the exception when I took a leak right after work (exercise intolerance). At one time the nose felt quite relaxed so it probably also reduces rhinitis at least a bit. Other symptoms were mostly unaffected. On the last day of the trial I also took 2 Resveratrol caps along with the aloe caps, but even then the photophobia persisted which is a blow to any theory about a resveratrol and emodin synergy. Unfortunately I also suffered some kind of spontaneous muscle injury in the back-left shoulder region a few hours after its combined intake that lasted a few days, though I still took the combination in the evening and the pain was reduced by morning, so causality is not certain and I also had some similar episodes in the past, but I can’t exactly recall the supplements I took at the time. I am a bit hesitant to give aloe vera a moderate rating based on its overall effectiveness and such a high dose is also not considered safe for long-term use.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 02:39:10 PM by Progecitor »
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.