Author Topic: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog  (Read 6491 times)

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #150 on: September 20, 2020, 02:17:12 PM »
--Cortisol test timed after orgasm (2 decreased): EDS, Crushgrapes

I wonder whether parameters in general go down post-orgasm. People who have timed any test prior and post orgasm should check their data to see if it drops down even when both values fall within reference range.

  Cortisol
--6 of us show normal cortisol (fernab, coal, POIS case study(2016), CertainlyPOIS, Martin88, Jferr
--4 of us show high cortisol: jakov, Nas, Simon66, quotz

Btw CertainlyPOIS shows normal cortisol but elevated ACTH. Same for Martin88, normal cortisol and elevated ACTH.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 01:02:09 AM by demografx »

hurray

  • Lab1
  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 292
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #151 on: September 20, 2020, 04:53:37 PM »
Also cross-posted at Testosterone thread.


It would not surprise me if testosterone levels turned out to be an important part of the POIS puzzle that we are trying to solve.


Interesting, hurray!

Back in 2008, your quote above was also the firm conclusion of Czech sexologist Dr Petr Weiss, who was adamant with me on the telephone that I “needed testosterone”. I was skeptical (almost zero POIS studies were done back then!), but I was desperate, so I simply went along with his theorizing (“why not?”) and...got lucky with TRT for POIS!


Thanks for sharing that information Demo  :) It shows that there are medical professionals out there who take POIS seriously - I think many of us at some time have spoken to a doctor who dismissed our POIS symptoms, or recommended we visit a psychiatrist   >:(

I wonder if Dr Petr Weiss is still practising medicine, and if he has followed the development of POIS research?


hurray

  • Lab1
  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 292
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #152 on: September 20, 2020, 06:46:16 PM »
Here is some data on hormones:
  Testosterone
"The global prevalence of testosterone deficiency (TD) ranges from 10-40%."
-Testosterone deficiency in adults and corresponding treatment patterns across the globe
--14 of us showing normal testosterone levels (BluesBrother, nanna1, Nas, Attia POIS Study, Starsky, coal, Vandemolen, CertainlyPOIS, fernab, Morgentaler POIS Study, demografx, Simon66, Clues, mardi).
--3 of us showing low testosterone (Quotz, Kim POIS Study, jakov, EDS).

  Cortisol
--6 of us show normal cortisol (fernab, coal, POIS case study(2016), CertainlyPOIS, Martin88, Jferr
--4 of us show high cortisol: jakov, Nas, Simon66, quotz
--Cortisol test timed after orgasm (2 decreased): EDS, Crushgrapes

Interesting data, nanna, thank you for posting it.

I'm slightly surprised that there weren't more people with low testosterone, but as Muon points out:

Quote
I wonder whether parameters in general go down post-orgasm. People who have timed any test prior and post orgasm should check their data to see if it drops down even when both values fall within reference range.

In your thread "Neuroendocrine responses to arousal and orgasm" you gathered together data from several different studies, including  graphs showing plasma testosterone and cortisol levels before and after orgasm:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2900.0

It would be fascinating to have the same kind of data for a group of POIS sufferers (before and after).

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5245
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #153 on: September 20, 2020, 07:19:10 PM »
Also cross-posted at Testosterone thread.


It would not surprise me if testosterone levels turned out to be an important part of the POIS puzzle that we are trying to solve.


Interesting, hurray!

Back in 2008, your quote above was also the firm conclusion of Czech sexologist Dr Petr Weiss, who was adamant with me on the telephone that I “needed testosterone”. I was skeptical (almost zero POIS studies were done back then!), but I was desperate, so I simply went along with his theorizing (“why not?”) and...got lucky with TRT for POIS!


Thanks for sharing that information Demo  :) It shows that there are medical professionals out there who take POIS seriously - I think many of us at some time have spoken to a doctor who dismissed our POIS symptoms, or recommended we visit a psychiatrist   >:(

I wonder if Dr Petr Weiss is still practising medicine, and if he has followed the development of POIS research?

hurray, Dr Weiss is a PhD sexologist, not an MD.

I sent him our posts earlier today and he acknowledged and appreciated them.

If anyone wishes to contact him, send me a message!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 07:49:06 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #154 on: September 21, 2020, 04:45:54 PM »
What receptors have affinity for milnacipran? Is there a list somewhere?

hurray

  • Lab1
  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 292
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #155 on: September 21, 2020, 05:13:59 PM »
What receptors have affinity for milnacipran? Is there a list somewhere?

The only receptor listed on drugbank.com is NMDA:

https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB04896

Milnacipran inhibits glutamatergic N-Methyl-D-Aspartate receptor activity in Spinal Dorsal Horn Neurons

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3407012/

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #156 on: September 22, 2020, 05:48:22 PM »
Role of inflammation in the pathogenesis and treatment of fibromyalgia

" Milnacipran, a dual reuptake inhibitor, acts its therapeutic effect partly by targeting glial activation and thereby inhibiting neuroinflammation."

Glial cells

nanna1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 352
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #157 on: September 22, 2020, 08:05:45 PM »
In your thread "Neuroendocrine responses to arousal and orgasm" you gathered together data from several different studies, including  graphs showing plasma testosterone and cortisol levels before and after orgasm:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2900.0

It would be fascinating to have the same kind of data for a group of POIS sufferers (before and after).
A before and after testosterone test for one POIS patient was tested in 2013.
POSTORGASMIC ILLNESS SYNDROME: A CASE FROM PRACTICE (2013)
by Kryzhanovsky ID


I updated the testosterone list to reflect this:
  Testosterone
"The global prevalence of testosterone deficiency (TD) ranges from 10-40%."
-Testosterone deficiency in adults and corresponding treatment patterns across the globe
--16 of us showing normal testosterone levels (BluesBrother, nanna1, Nas, Attia POIS Study, Starsky, coal, Vandemolen, CertainlyPOIS, fernab, Morgentaler POIS Study, Simon66, Clues, mardi, drop247, Kryzhanovsky POIS study).
--4 of us showing low testosterone (Quotz, Kim POIS Study, jakov, EDS).
--Testosterone test timed before and after orgasm (1 decreased): Kryzhanovsky POIS study

  Cortisol
--6 of us show normal cortisol (fernab, coal, POIS case study(2016), CertainlyPOIS, Martin88, Jferr)
--4 of us show high cortisol: jakov, Nas, Simon66, quotz
--Cortisol test timed before and after orgasm (2 decreased): EDS, Crushgrapes
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 11:49:45 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5245
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #158 on: September 22, 2020, 10:38:33 PM »
nanna1, my testosterone pre-treatment was low. It’s only “normal” with TRT.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

nanna1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 352
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #159 on: September 22, 2020, 11:46:21 PM »
Sorry Demo, I only see your normal results on "Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results". I'll remove your name from the list. If you post the numbers for your testosterone levels before TRT, please let me know.
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5245
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #160 on: September 23, 2020, 07:35:22 AM »
It was done in 2008. No diary available.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #161 on: September 23, 2020, 08:02:22 AM »
The minerals in Kryzhanovsky's paper that show abnomal levels haven't been explored, before and after. It's a paper from 2013 and it's 2020 now. You can tell how thoroughly researchers are investigating this. I recall that Ironfeather measured iron in and out of POIS which was abnormal. Clues got elevated calcium. 

"Geiser et al. [13] reported that IL-8 and GRO proteins were active toward basophils as indicated by chemotaxis and intracellular calcium changes in concentration."
Jiang, N., Xi, G., Li, H., & Yin, J. (2015). Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) in a Chinese Man: No Proof for IgE-Mediated Allergy to Semen.

Again this paper is from 2015, didn't learn anything from the 2013 paper above and is the only paper that mentioned mast cell activation other than via IgE sensitive receptors.

Papers published after Jiang didn't do anything with the theories of Jiang that can be found in his discussion. And it's 2020 now, 5 years later.

What a joke.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 08:06:35 AM by Muon »

hurray

  • Lab1
  • Sr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 292
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #162 on: September 23, 2020, 01:02:01 PM »

A before and after testosterone test for one POIS patient was tested in 2013.
POSTORGASMIC ILLNESS SYNDROME: A CASE FROM PRACTICE (2013)
by Kryzhanovsky ID



Good find - that shows a substantial drop of free testosterone, although still within the reference range.

Some of the figures in that table look a little strange:



It seems unlikely that all those readings would be identical both before and after? You would expect a slight variance in the readings from any two samples taken at different times.

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5245
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #163 on: September 23, 2020, 02:45:45 PM »
nanna1, my testosterone pre-treatment was low. It’s only “normal” with TRT.
Sorry Demo, I only see your normal results on "Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results". I'll remove your name from the list. If you post the numbers for your testosterone levels before TRT, please let me know.
It was done in 2008. No diary available.
If anyone is interested in my pre-POIS-treatment testosterone results, I posted 5,000 times @ https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;f=outbox
so the results might be found there or with Google.

10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #164 on: September 23, 2020, 02:58:57 PM »
Link doesn't work Demo. It redirects me to the login screen.