Author Topic: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog  (Read 37794 times)

hurray

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #140 on: September 18, 2020, 01:29:27 PM »
No smoking or caffeine for me either, Berlin.

That's very interesting indeed, drop247. Since I started using milnacipran, I've always taken it before O. I have no wish to suffer from POIS if I can possibly avoid it  :) I always assumed that milnacipran's effects on POIS would be in line with the stated half-life of 8 hours or so.

I've noticed that a 25mg dose becomes less effective after several hours, but I can still feel an "afterglow" effect a day or so later. I'm pretty sure it's cleared my system after 3 days, though.

Then again, I have been taking it on demand for a number of months now, so perhaps my body has built up some tolerance to it by now. It may be that at the start, the milnacipran worked for much longer. I don't feel nausea even after a 50mg dose now, but I definitely did when I first started taking it.

Quote
Is it possible it was still providing some protection? Is two doses enough to provide lasting effects on my neurotransmitter levels? Or is it possible that two strong orgasms that I had has done something to help clear a possible infection in my prostate? This O was completely normal in terms of physical action. Not elevated intensity in physical strength.

Good questions  :) I like your theories regarding how milnacpiran-induced strong contractions could be preventing our POIS symptoms. Is there a link between a possible prostate infection and POIS/O that you know of?

Thanks for another good report, I look forward to hearing more.

berlin1984

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #141 on: September 18, 2020, 02:17:34 PM »
A case study whose subject found relief with Milnacipran both with premature ejaculation und postcoital headaches. Took 50mg, and tried a beta blocker and indomethacin without success.

Mushnikk, not sure I understand. Did you try it too or did you cite that from somewhere?

If you tried it too: What's your consumption of coffee/nicotine/alcohol etc?

hurray

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #142 on: September 19, 2020, 12:27:10 PM »
A case study whose subject found relief with Milnacipran both with premature ejaculation und postcoital headaches. Took 50mg, and tried a beta blocker and indomethacin without success.

Mushnikk, not sure I understand. Did you try it too or did you cite that from somewhere?

If you tried it too: What's your consumption of coffee/nicotine/alcohol etc?

I think Mushnikk found that case study from here:

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Citation/2019/10000/Milnacipran_for_Postcoital_Cephalgia_and_Premature.37.aspx

As far as I'm aware, only myself and drop247 have tried milnacipran so far from this forum.  It is not commonly used in most countries, making it difficult to obtain.

Muon

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #143 on: September 19, 2020, 12:48:59 PM »
I will put that paper in the POIS paper thread. If you see interesting papers just dump them in the comment section. I think it's the anti-inflammatory property of the stuff that's doing the job. Posted a paper earlier about that here. TNF-alpha is associated with headache. They don't mention the duration of the headache.

It would be interesting to see if Heather responds to Milnacipran since she responds to testosterone just like hurray does.

Milnacipran Dose-Effect Study in Patients With Burning Mouth Syndrome

https://youtu.be/lrKqlv6VK_w?t=839

MCAS can manifest itself as burning mouth syndrome. Does Milnacipran targets mast cells or their mediators? And does it work for some POISers because mast cells are involved in POIS?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 01:42:25 PM by Muon »

hurray

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #144 on: September 19, 2020, 04:02:30 PM »
I will put that paper in the POIS paper thread. If you see interesting papers just dump them in the comment section. I think it's the anti-inflammatory property of the stuff that's doing the job. Posted a paper earlier about that here. TNF-alpha is associated with headache. They don't mention the duration of the headache.

It would be interesting to see if Heather responds to Milnacipran since she responds to testosterone just like hurray does.

Milnacipran Dose-Effect Study in Patients With Burning Mouth Syndrome

https://youtu.be/lrKqlv6VK_w?t=839

MCAS can manifest itself as burning mouth syndrome. Does Milnacipran targets mast cells or their mediators? And does it work for some POISers because mast cells are involved in POIS?

Thanks Muon. Interesting that burning mouth syndrome can be caused by MCAS.

I would say that there is a strong possibility that milnacipran's anti-inflammatory properties could be preventing MCAS. A study from June 2020 shows that milnacipran suppresses MPO activity and inflammatory mediators:

Anti-inflammatory and anti-hyperalgesic effects of milnacipran in inflamed rats: involvement of myeloperoxidase activity, cytokines and oxidative/nitrosative stress

Quote
milnacipran analgesic and anti-inflammatory effects were at least in part exerted through its suppression of MPO activity and inflammatory mediators, such as IL-1?, IL-6 and TNF-?. Carrageenan triggers neutrophil recruitment and MPO activity, and activates the cytokines production, including IL-1?, IL-6 and TNF-?, which are accountable for inflammation and pain

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/s10787-020-00726-2

Muon

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #145 on: September 19, 2020, 04:46:55 PM »
Some of these cytokines are elevated in the brain of FM patients and can downregulate testosterone as well. I dumped some of these FM papers here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3207.msg35317#msg35317

hurray

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #146 on: September 20, 2020, 08:09:43 AM »
Some of these cytokines are elevated in the brain of FM patients and can downregulate testosterone as well. I dumped some of these FM papers here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3207.msg35317#msg35317

It would not surprise me if testosterone levels turned out to be an important part of the POIS puzzle that we are trying to solve. Prior to milnacipran, clomid (which increases testosterone amongst other things) was one of the few things that genuinely helped with my POIS.

Journey

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #147 on: September 20, 2020, 08:45:23 AM »
Some of these cytokines are elevated in the brain of FM patients and can downregulate testosterone as well. I dumped some of these FM papers here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3207.msg35317#msg35317

It would not surprise me if testosterone levels turned out to be an important part of the POIS puzzle that we are trying to solve. Prior to milnacipran, clomid (which increases testosterone amongst other things) was one of the few things that genuinely helped with my POIS.
POIS=lower hormones cuz cytokine?

demografx

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #148 on: September 20, 2020, 12:51:18 PM »
Also cross-posted at Testosterone thread.


It would not surprise me if testosterone levels turned out to be an important part of the POIS puzzle that we are trying to solve.


Interesting, hurray!

Back in 2008, your quote above was also the firm conclusion of Czech sexologist Dr Petr Weiss, who was adamant with me on the telephone that I “needed testosterone”. I was skeptical (almost zero POIS studies were done back then!), but I was desperate, so I simply went along with his theorizing (“why not?”) and...got lucky with TRT for POIS!


Dr Petr Weiss
Professor (Full)
Charles University
Prague, Czech Republic
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 01:18:45 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

nanna1

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #149 on: September 20, 2020, 01:20:37 PM »
Here is some data on hormones:
  Testosterone
"The global prevalence of testosterone deficiency (TD) ranges from 10-40%."
-Testosterone deficiency in adults and corresponding treatment patterns across the globe
--14 of us showing normal testosterone levels (BluesBrother, nanna1, Nas, Attia POIS Study, Starsky, coal, Vandemolen, CertainlyPOIS, fernab, Morgentaler POIS Study, demografx, Simon66, Clues, mardi).
--3 of us showing low testosterone (Quotz, Kim POIS Study, jakov, EDS).

  Cortisol
--6 of us show normal cortisol (fernab, coal, POIS case study(2016), CertainlyPOIS, Martin88, Jferr
--4 of us show high cortisol: jakov, Nas, Simon66, quotz
--Cortisol test timed after orgasm (2 decreased): EDS, Crushgrapes
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 01:24:09 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Muon

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #150 on: September 20, 2020, 02:17:12 PM »
--Cortisol test timed after orgasm (2 decreased): EDS, Crushgrapes

I wonder whether parameters in general go down post-orgasm. People who have timed any test prior and post orgasm should check their data to see if it drops down even when both values fall within reference range.

  Cortisol
--6 of us show normal cortisol (fernab, coal, POIS case study(2016), CertainlyPOIS, Martin88, Jferr
--4 of us show high cortisol: jakov, Nas, Simon66, quotz

Btw CertainlyPOIS shows normal cortisol but elevated ACTH. Same for Martin88, normal cortisol and elevated ACTH.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 01:02:09 AM by demografx »

hurray

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #151 on: September 20, 2020, 04:53:37 PM »
Also cross-posted at Testosterone thread.


It would not surprise me if testosterone levels turned out to be an important part of the POIS puzzle that we are trying to solve.


Interesting, hurray!

Back in 2008, your quote above was also the firm conclusion of Czech sexologist Dr Petr Weiss, who was adamant with me on the telephone that I “needed testosterone”. I was skeptical (almost zero POIS studies were done back then!), but I was desperate, so I simply went along with his theorizing (“why not?”) and...got lucky with TRT for POIS!


Thanks for sharing that information Demo  :) It shows that there are medical professionals out there who take POIS seriously - I think many of us at some time have spoken to a doctor who dismissed our POIS symptoms, or recommended we visit a psychiatrist   >:(

I wonder if Dr Petr Weiss is still practising medicine, and if he has followed the development of POIS research?


hurray

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #152 on: September 20, 2020, 06:46:16 PM »
Here is some data on hormones:
  Testosterone
"The global prevalence of testosterone deficiency (TD) ranges from 10-40%."
-Testosterone deficiency in adults and corresponding treatment patterns across the globe
--14 of us showing normal testosterone levels (BluesBrother, nanna1, Nas, Attia POIS Study, Starsky, coal, Vandemolen, CertainlyPOIS, fernab, Morgentaler POIS Study, demografx, Simon66, Clues, mardi).
--3 of us showing low testosterone (Quotz, Kim POIS Study, jakov, EDS).

  Cortisol
--6 of us show normal cortisol (fernab, coal, POIS case study(2016), CertainlyPOIS, Martin88, Jferr
--4 of us show high cortisol: jakov, Nas, Simon66, quotz
--Cortisol test timed after orgasm (2 decreased): EDS, Crushgrapes

Interesting data, nanna, thank you for posting it.

I'm slightly surprised that there weren't more people with low testosterone, but as Muon points out:

Quote
I wonder whether parameters in general go down post-orgasm. People who have timed any test prior and post orgasm should check their data to see if it drops down even when both values fall within reference range.

In your thread "Neuroendocrine responses to arousal and orgasm" you gathered together data from several different studies, including  graphs showing plasma testosterone and cortisol levels before and after orgasm:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2900.0

It would be fascinating to have the same kind of data for a group of POIS sufferers (before and after).

demografx

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #153 on: September 20, 2020, 07:19:10 PM »
Also cross-posted at Testosterone thread.


It would not surprise me if testosterone levels turned out to be an important part of the POIS puzzle that we are trying to solve.


Interesting, hurray!

Back in 2008, your quote above was also the firm conclusion of Czech sexologist Dr Petr Weiss, who was adamant with me on the telephone that I “needed testosterone”. I was skeptical (almost zero POIS studies were done back then!), but I was desperate, so I simply went along with his theorizing (“why not?”) and...got lucky with TRT for POIS!


Thanks for sharing that information Demo  :) It shows that there are medical professionals out there who take POIS seriously - I think many of us at some time have spoken to a doctor who dismissed our POIS symptoms, or recommended we visit a psychiatrist   >:(

I wonder if Dr Petr Weiss is still practising medicine, and if he has followed the development of POIS research?

hurray, Dr Weiss is a PhD sexologist, not an MD.

I sent him our posts earlier today and he acknowledged and appreciated them.

If anyone wishes to contact him, send me a message!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 07:49:06 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #154 on: September 21, 2020, 04:45:54 PM »
What receptors have affinity for milnacipran? Is there a list somewhere?

hurray

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #155 on: September 21, 2020, 05:13:59 PM »
What receptors have affinity for milnacipran? Is there a list somewhere?

The only receptor listed on drugbank.com is NMDA:

https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB04896

Milnacipran inhibits glutamatergic N-Methyl-D-Aspartate receptor activity in Spinal Dorsal Horn Neurons

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3407012/

Muon

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #156 on: September 22, 2020, 05:48:22 PM »
Role of inflammation in the pathogenesis and treatment of fibromyalgia

" Milnacipran, a dual reuptake inhibitor, acts its therapeutic effect partly by targeting glial activation and thereby inhibiting neuroinflammation."

Glial cells

nanna1

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #157 on: September 22, 2020, 08:05:45 PM »
In your thread "Neuroendocrine responses to arousal and orgasm" you gathered together data from several different studies, including  graphs showing plasma testosterone and cortisol levels before and after orgasm:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2900.0

It would be fascinating to have the same kind of data for a group of POIS sufferers (before and after).
A before and after testosterone test for one POIS patient was tested in 2013.
POSTORGASMIC ILLNESS SYNDROME: A CASE FROM PRACTICE (2013)
by Kryzhanovsky ID


I updated the testosterone list to reflect this:
  Testosterone
"The global prevalence of testosterone deficiency (TD) ranges from 10-40%."
-Testosterone deficiency in adults and corresponding treatment patterns across the globe
--16 of us showing normal testosterone levels (BluesBrother, nanna1, Nas, Attia POIS Study, Starsky, coal, Vandemolen, CertainlyPOIS, fernab, Morgentaler POIS Study, Simon66, Clues, mardi, drop247, Kryzhanovsky POIS study).
--4 of us showing low testosterone (Quotz, Kim POIS Study, jakov, EDS).
--Testosterone test timed before and after orgasm (1 decreased): Kryzhanovsky POIS study

  Cortisol
--6 of us show normal cortisol (fernab, coal, POIS case study(2016), CertainlyPOIS, Martin88, Jferr)
--4 of us show high cortisol: jakov, Nas, Simon66, quotz
--Cortisol test timed before and after orgasm (2 decreased): EDS, Crushgrapes
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 11:49:45 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

demografx

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #158 on: September 22, 2020, 10:38:33 PM »
nanna1, my testosterone pre-treatment was low. It’s only “normal” with TRT.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

nanna1

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Re: Milnacipran - completely stopping my brain fog
« Reply #159 on: September 22, 2020, 11:46:21 PM »
Sorry Demo, I only see your normal results on "Gather and Post Here Your Medical Tests Results". I'll remove your name from the list. If you post the numbers for your testosterone levels before TRT, please let me know.
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/