Author Topic: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS  (Read 5952 times)

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2020, 04:59:47 PM »
My hematocrit was bordeline low: 38.3 %, reference: 39.5 - 50.5 %
I wonder what the level is at times when I feel bloodflow is experiencing more resistance. This symptom can be problematic.

"Relationships between hematocrit, viscosity, and shear rate are important factors to put into consideration. Since blood is non-Newtonian, the viscosity of the blood is in relation to the hematocrit, and as a function of shear rate. This is important when it comes to determining shear force, since a lower hematocrit level indicates that there is a need for more force to push the red blood cells through the system." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematocrit

Increased plasma viscosity (=more tar-like) from dissolved (inflammatory) molecules? Inflammation of vessel walls leading to less laminar flow, thus more resistance? How do you investigate this?

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2020, 06:29:04 AM »
By the way my grandma used blood thinners because she had thick blood.

berlin1984

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2020, 03:45:04 PM »

"Remember Dr Les Simpson from New Zealand, who described rouleaux formation [stacks of red blood cells] in the red cells of CFS patients? See Rouleaux is a marker of infection. Simpson showed that red cells in CFS sufferers stick together in clumps. This would have a dire effect on blood supply because blood would not flow through tiny capillaries and so fuel and oxygen delivery would be seriously impaired. Clearly, this would impact adversely on energy delivery mechanisms."
https://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Chronic_infection_%E2%80%93_Life_is_an_arms_race_%E2%80%93_how_to_tackle_with_natural_remedies

"CFS is low cardiac output secondary to mitochondrial malfunction"
https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Central_Cause:_Mitochondrial_Failure

^ I really like that drymyhill wiki. a TON of information.

Blood plasma viscosity may rise during POIS.

Are you sure it's about viscosity and not about having too little blood?
See:
Hypovolemia is one of the main features of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome which has a lot of overlap with POIS in terms of symptoms.

https://www.healthrising.org/treating-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/enhancing-blood-volume-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs-and-fibromyalgia/

See if anything there helps your symptoms. Improving your cardiovascular fitness over time also increases your blood volume.

Journey

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2020, 02:46:16 AM »

"Remember Dr Les Simpson from New Zealand, who described rouleaux formation [stacks of red blood cells] in the red cells of CFS patients? See Rouleaux is a marker of infection. Simpson showed that red cells in CFS sufferers stick together in clumps. This would have a dire effect on blood supply because blood would not flow through tiny capillaries and so fuel and oxygen delivery would be seriously impaired. Clearly, this would impact adversely on energy delivery mechanisms."
https://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Chronic_infection_%E2%80%93_Life_is_an_arms_race_%E2%80%93_how_to_tackle_with_natural_remedies

"CFS is low cardiac output secondary to mitochondrial malfunction"
https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Central_Cause:_Mitochondrial_Failure

^ I really like that drymyhill wiki. a TON of information.

Blood plasma viscosity may rise during POIS.

Are you sure it's about viscosity and not about having too little blood?
See:
Hypovolemia is one of the main features of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome which has a lot of overlap with POIS in terms of symptoms.

https://www.healthrising.org/treating-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/enhancing-blood-volume-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs-and-fibromyalgia/

See if anything there helps your symptoms. Improving your cardiovascular fitness over time also increases your blood volume.
Maybe infection in reproductive area releases in POIS causing clumping or by nanna1's theory some virus is stronger in POIS so it activates.

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2020, 07:42:19 AM »
Circulatory changes poll

But I am one that gets severe headaches after sex.  It is all over my head. It is not in one spot. In the past it would start out like my head felt deprived of oxygen or something and was very dull achey brain foggy confused feeling. It almost felt as if my brain was burning. I do not sleep well when it is like this. I am very aware of my head the whole time as it feels injured. Normally I sleep like a rock. After a few days of this my headache moves into a more classic headache where it's just painful like a really bad headache. Oddly enough I welcome that because I know I'm out of the first stage and will be better in a few more days. I have to say though since starting testosterone I am not experiencing these kind of severe headaches.

Mast cells release/secrete mediators under hypoxic conditions:

Mast Cell Survival and Mediator Secretion in Response to Hypoxia

Mast cells mediate the microvascular inflammatory response to systemic hypoxia

Related threads:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2688.0
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1527.0
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2489.0
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2731.0

Clues

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2020, 07:59:56 AM »
Mast cells release/secrete mediators under hypoxic conditions

Interesting! Thanks for the info Muon.

The poll asks whether POIS causes reduced blood flow, but could it perhaps be the other way around? I'm asking because I feel like the the cold hands and feet thing I described in the other thread is always present for me, regardless of triggers. Maybe it gets worse post-orgasm though. Not sure as the weather has been warm-ish until recently here.

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2020, 10:16:02 AM »
The poll asks whether POIS causes reduced blood flow, but could it perhaps be the other way around?
You will need to set up another poll for that. You may link theories/symptoms to eachother but you will end up with the story of the egg and the chicken, who came first?

I'm asking because I feel like the cold hands and feet thing I described in the other thread is always present for me, regardless of triggers.
Seen in family members of mine as well. Also when I get the impression that blood flow in my calves stagnate it can lead to a local one-timed prickly sting in my calf. My mother got varicose veins in her lower legs, they feel heavy and got this focal/local short-lived pain flare at a small area on a regular basis, she thinks of a vein that is popping.

Table 1: “sense of feeling cold much of the time":
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.3109/07853890.2016.1161231?scroll=top&needAccess=true

Possibly related: Shortness of breath and subjectively not feeling like I'm able to draw breath deeply/fully is part of my symptom set. Also, there is another thing, which intuitively feels like it may be related: I also generally am very sensitive to cold, which gets worse during a symptom episode. The way it works specifically is that the extremities of my body, feet and hands especially, get super cold in even mildly cold weather, and I have trouble warming them back up. Subjectively it feels almost like the blood flow to my extremities is reduced severely, and my hands and feet get very stiff, and my feet start aching.

Possibly related as well: My dad has a condition whereby his hands get extremely cold and he struggles to get them warm again. I believe he's been diagnosed with Raynaud's disease. Maybe there is a genetic factor?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 10:22:22 AM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2020, 10:26:15 AM »

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2020, 05:23:32 PM »
Link doesn't work

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2020, 05:35:11 PM »
Link doesn't work

Change .se to .tw in the URL (=weblink browser) and vice versa. Or wait for at least a day and try later.

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2020, 06:52:18 AM »
Pressure Overload–Induced Transient Oxidative Stress Mediates Perivascular Inflammation and Cardiac Fibrosis through Angiotensin II

Perivascular inflammation can lead to arterial hypertension. Oxidative stress hasn't been explored in POIS, as in measuring circulating reactive oxygen species. ROS storm in POIS?


Journey

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2020, 07:08:27 AM »
I too hear heartbeat in head together with minitinnitus in right ear that is so tiny that I don't notice if I don't focus specifically on it I think I got it in middleschool at woodwork class when teacher used saw for woods and there were no earphones so the sound felt not good and I think tinnitus then appeared but it has reduced to almost nothing now.

berlin1984

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2020, 01:15:21 PM »
I think Forskolin (Coleus forskohlii) is worth trialing. I came to the name by this post about supplements for increasing testosterone.

From https://selfhacked.com/blog/health-benefits-of-forskolin/ :
"2) Improving Blood Flow
Forskolin can increase blood flow by relaxing the muscles in the blood vessels. In a small trial on 21 elderly people, oral Coleus forskohlii extract lowered blood pressure through this mechanism.
In a small trial on 31 people with erectile dysfunction and a study in rabbits, injected forskolin improved the condition by increasing blood flow into the penis.
Both forskolin and its derivative NKH477 increased blood flow in animal studies.
"

From http://therapy.epnet.com/nat/GetContent.asp?siteid=EBSCO&chunkiid=21689 :
Also claims that it can stabilize mast cells and help with eczema.. Hmmm!

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2020, 05:56:53 AM »
At least two members report improvements after POIS when increasing salt-intake:

POIS_DICK:
"my POIS is way more manageable since I got my diet dialed. I eat tons of salt when I'm in a POIS state, 2 tablespoons in a cup of water and i sip that all day. This had a major effect on the intensity of the symptoms"

orlands:
"I have been drinking a lot of water and salt. It has been making a huge difference in my energy levels" ..." I'm just drinking 2 gallons of water and Himalayan salt a day.
I know it seems a bit extreme. But I'm feeling much much better." ... "I'm not recommending anything. But this doctor says that water and salt lowers histamine levels. But please, don't believe me. Go study. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xweziIaUMo"

There are many theories on the effect of salt on POIS. In the long run it might increase stommach acid and be beneficial for nutrient absorption. In the short run, it might cause a raise in blood pressure and vasoconstriction (same as coffeine/asprin/cold shower) and have anti-histamine properties. Vasoconstriction might temporary stop POIS-inflammatoy hormones from entering the tissues.

Quantum:
"Also, as needed throughout the day, I take water with salt added to it ( salt causes fluid retention, which makes blood pressure to raise - that's why salt must
be avoided by those who have hypertension). Salted water is cheap and very effective to raise blood pressure"

But at the same time vasoconstriction seems to be caused by POIS itself, at least the first day after POIS/NE/O (since people are experience cold fingers/feets at that time). However, after the initial vasoconstriction, maybe a vasodilution occur - because of advancing blood vessel inflammation - and that is when the more severe POIS-symptoms start to develop.

I like to hear what you think about this idea and when it is best to stimulate vasoconstriction and vasodilation during a POIS period.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 06:39:15 AM by BoneBroth »

berlin1984

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2021, 02:36:37 PM »
I checked my blood in a microscope some weeks ago and it was very sticky. I should have taken a picture of it and posted it here! The platelets looked like tubes with stacked coins. They should be free flowing! However many people have sticky blood nowdays and it is a potential health hazard.
(....)
I was taking a special drink to improve the blood stickyness and flow some year ago (formulated by the doctor who did the blood microscope analyses, it was sticky then too) and that made the POIS ger better. However that drink had such a horrible taste that I had to stop taking it after some months. It was many ingredients to mix also. Kind of expensive. Some of the ingredients was MSM, kalcium, magnesium, bicarbonate.

There is a tomato extract called DWSTC (Fruitflow II) / WSTCII that has the (approved EU) health claim “Helps to maintain a healthy blood flow and benefits circulation”.? It reduces blood platelet aggregation
It's available by different supplement companies.

https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2009/05/28/Tomato-extract-wins-EFSA-blood-aggregation-health-claim

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2021, 03:52:40 PM »
Berlin1984, your on to something. It seems that the substance that make the paletes stick together and become "thick blood" is called fibrin. The sticky fibrin is involved in wound healing and cell repair, but when overproduced (in chronic inflammation) it makes the blood thick which makes it not functioning properly and cause issues like headache, varicose veins etcetera.). The paletes stack into long spikes (I've seened it mysellf in a microscope). "This 'grainy' blood now rubs against your arteries sensitive lining, doing damage every time your heart beats". This makes sense! On POIS the body (blood vessels, organs, brain etcetera) becomes inflamed so more fibrin is produced untill the blood becomes sticky and thick. Imagine what damage this does if we are in a constant POIS state.

The sollution?
Well besides of working on lowering the POIS there are obviously some quick fixes that break down fibrin (increases the fibrinolytic or antiplatelet activity) and some of those are:
  • proteolytic enzymes (there are obviously products with this, see below)
  • rasberries (antiplatelet activity + fibrinolytic activity)
  • tomatoes (antiplatelet activity)
  • green beans (antiplatelet activity)
  • grapes (antiplatelet activit)

So we might use this information to make the perfect anti-POIS-symptom-smoothie! I will sure put more rasperries in mine now!

https://losethebackpain.com/hypercoagulation-hidden-heart-attack-risk/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21311321/
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 03:56:58 PM by BoneBroth »