Author Topic: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS  (Read 6055 times)

BoneBroth

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Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« on: November 07, 2018, 11:59:58 AM »
POIS might be much related to migrain. My mom and sister have had big problem with migrains (migrain after stress or weather changes and after forgetting to take the morning coffee) and with varicose veins on their legs. I have a tendency for that too and the veins on my feets is quite noticable. My veins on the feets and on the forehead are becoming more visible towards the end of the POIS-period. My bother, father and me were all bald early and get easy warm (hormonal related genetics) but we dont have the classic migrain. Its just me that have POIS and that is triggered by O or thoughts.

This makes me suspicious about if POIS is related to a combination of genetic factors and a trigger.

Perhaps POIS has something to do with the permeability and elasticity of blood vessels! But this is a riddle because att the first day after the O I do not seems have expanded blood vessels at all. But I still have the headache (sometimes I hear my heart beet pounding loud in the head). Maybe that headache is caued by over-constricting vessels and towards the end of the period they are over-dilated. Blood vessels are fluctuating to much, they cant remain in a normal state.

Anyway, substances in the blood could more easy pass through the thinner wall of dilated blood vessels and get into the surrounding tissue and cause inflammation. Those inflammations could last for days until the substances is removed naturally by the immune system. Bad substances like estrogen metabolites might do more harm then others like gluten (whitch some believe is the cause of migrain). But no matter what is the substance, if the vessels are not keeping tight they are the weakest link.

Areas with high blood flow are mostly affected: heart, liver, kidneys, spleen, gallbladder, brain and joints (a quantum resonance magnetic analyser, QRMA, confirmed heavy inflammation in many of those areas days after NE). This could also suggest why cold showers might help (at the diluted phase), and why hard mental work could aggravate the condition (for me it does, just writing this article...). Anything that could contrict blood vessels might limit the inflammation. Just taking it easy the first day, dont think too much and eat very easy digestible food reduces the days of headache, at least for me. To have a good night sleep one should stay in the sun to produce enought of melatonin during the night. Some people get less symptoms after exercise though, witch is a riddle..

I get POIS after sexual intercource, NE's and sometimes even after an erotic thought that fly by and could ruin a whole night (but then symptoms are limited to hot flashes and nightmares ). Releases makes it always worse. The POIS symptoms are less bad after sexual intercourse since the body-to-body contact make you produce antiinflammatory hormones like oxytocin that balances the negative effect of the inflammatory hormones (adrenaline etc). Oxytocin is probably not produced during NE or faps when there is no body contact. Anyone tryed to pat a dog after NE?

Vitamin C and MSM (metylsulfonylmetan) reduces the headache from 100% to about 70%, but drinking too much makes my kidney hurt, since I guess it has to work more, and increased blood flow makes more inflammation (at least on the first days) ... Vitamin C supports the kidneys though, so I'm really confused about that..

So what makes the blood vessels less elastic? Stress, cortisol? nutritional deficiency? Yes I've been subject to alot of stress that the last 30 years (started with school bullying for about nine years). But what is missing in the vessels? Collagen? copper? magnesium? omega 3? Or are they expanding because of an overproduction of the biochemical signal that makes the vessels constrict/dilate?

Anyway, QRMA analyses gives alot of information on the state of the organs and blood vessels etcetera. I'm low in collagen and my vessels lacks elasticity. I was also low in specific minerals and vitamins. I would recommend all of you to go to someone who has this equipment and test yourself. There are many diffrent kind of frequency analysers, with diffrent names. Onother one is called Physiospect. I also tested positive for Epstein-Barr-virus (and other viruses) with yet another one - Bicom Bioresonance. They can combat viruses/parasites with that machine too. I've also done a blood microscope test that showed platelets that clap themselves (thick blood) and parasites.

See more here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lvKar2wbbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVjRCtkRUIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtZFvr4jPFc
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 03:59:21 AM by BoneBroth »

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 12:34:28 PM »
The substances that cross the blood vessel wall and cause the inflammation might be related to testosterone and estrogen (and other hormones?). I have done a blood and salive analyse of my testosterone and estrogen. Testosterone was very low, estrogen normal. Its the estrogen metabolites (break down products) that are extreemly inflammatory and cancerogenic as well. Maybe the testosterone balances those. Thats why I exprerience the pain in diffrent parts of the body and bad skin, hairloss etcetera after some days and not at day one. Thats when the estrogen metabilites are beeing created and circulate in the blood stream. They are also hard on liver and kidney. So a well functioning liver and gallblader is very important. Thats why I experienced improvements in POIS the weeks after I did a liver cleanse (olive oil + epsom salt + grape fruit). But such a cleanse is not recommended in a inflammatory state. Wait untill your body has healed. I've done three such cleanses and every time I felt a relief the weeks after. Things to boost the testosterone naturally might help.

So POIS might be a result of an elasticity blood vessel problem in combination with hormonal imbalances worsened by a clogged liver/gall bladder (a healthy liver/gall bladder is extreemly important for a normal fat/hormonal metabolism). And everything is caused by long term elevated cortisol.

This guy has it all figured out about how to increas testosterone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvQTB2zCveQ

My suggestion:

1. Reduce cortisol levels so the adrenals can rest and start producing testosterone (meditation, yoga, some nutrition, herbs)
2. Increas testosterone naturally (Se Christopher Walker in video above, zink, magnesium,  exercise etc)
3. Reduce estrogen (cruciferous vegetables, broccoli, butter etcetera)
4. Support the liver and gallbladder (nutrition/cleanses/fasting)
5. Support the colon, stommac acid and digestion (pro/prebiotica, good food, salt, fibers, ACV)
6. Take vitamins/minerals etcetera that rebuild the blood vessel walls
7. Special stack approach to get fast relief


By the way, I'm on a version of Nanna1's POIS stack since two weeks ago but I have not noticed any much improvement. I had the first NE tonight since I started, but unfortunatly it happened at the same day as a got a cold break out (actuallt the cold caused the NE due to bad sleep) so I'm not sure what causes the headache now.. ;/.. But I feel that tense feeling in the forehead that use to come with POIS.

Update 2019-07-23: After reading up on cortisol I'm not so sure it is the bad guy anymore, at least if it's balanced with other hormones. Lack of those "other" hormones might be a bigger problem then the cortisol itself. Cortisol works against inflammation. However relaxing would still help the adrenals make all hormones.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 10:43:52 AM by BoneBroth »

Nas

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 02:31:19 PM »
POIS might be much related to migrain. My mom and sister have och had big problem with migrains (migrain after stress or weather changes and after forgetting to take the morning coffee) and with varicose veins on their legs. I have a tendency for that too and the veins on my feets is quite noticable. My veins on the feets and on the forehead are becoming more visible towards the end of the POIS-period. My bother, father and me were all bald early and get easy warm (hormonal related genetics) but we dont have the classic migrain. Its just me that have POIS and that is triggered by O or thoughts.

This makes me suspicious about if POIS is related to a combination of genetic factors and a trigger.

Perhaps POIS has something to do with the permeability and elasticity of blood vessels! But this is a riddle because att the first day after the O I do not seems have expanded blood vessels at all. But I still have the headache (sometimes I hear my heart beet pounding loud in the head). Maybe that headache is caued by over-constricting vessels and towards the end of the period they are over-dilated. Blood vessels are fluctuating to much, they cant remain in a normal state.

Anyway, substances in the blood could more easy pass through the thinner wall of dilated blood vessels and get into the surrounding tissue and cause inflammation. Those inflammations could last for days until the substances is removed naturally by the immune system. Bad substances like estrogen metabolites might do more harm then others like gluten (whitch some believe is the cause of migrain). But no matter what is the substance, if the vessels are not keeping tight they are the weakest link.

Areas with high blood flow are mostly affected: heart, liver, kidneys, spleen, gallbladder, brain and joints (a quantum resonance magnetic analyser, QRMA, confirmed heavy inflammation in many of those areas days after NE). This could also suggest why cold showers might help (at the diluted phase), and why hard mental work could aggravate the condition (for me it does, just writing this article...). Anything that could contrict blood vessels might limit the inflammation. Just taking it easy the first day, dont think too much and eat very easy digestible food reduces the days of headache, at least for me. To have a good night sleep one should stay in the sun to produce enought of melatonin during the night. Some people get less symptoms after exercise though, witch is a riddle..

I get POIS after sexual intercource, NE's and sometimes even after an erotic thought that fly by and could ruin a whole night (but then symptoms are limited to hot flashes and nightmares ). Releases makes it always worse. The POIS symptoms are less bad after sexual intercourse since the body-to-body contact make you produce antiinflammatory hormones like oxytocin that balances the negative effect of the inflammatory hormones (adrenaline etc). Oxytocin is probably not produced during NE or faps when there is no body contact. Anyone tryed to pat a dog after NE?

Vitamin C and MSM (metylsulfonylmetan) reduces the headache from 100% to about 70%, but drinking too much makes my kidney hurt, since I guess it has to work more, and increased blood flow makes more inflammation (at least on the first days) ... Vitamin C supports the kidneys though, so I'm really confused about that..

So what makes the blood vessels less elastic? Stress, cortisol? nutritional deficiency? Yes I've been subject to alot of stress that the last 30 years (started with school bullying for about nine years). But what is missing in the vessels? Collagen? copper? magnesium? omega 3? Or are they expanding because of an overproduction of the biochemical signal that makes the vessels constrict/dilate?

Anyway, QRMA analyses gives alot of information on the state of the organs and blood vessels etcetera. I'm low in collagen and my vessels lacks elasticity. I was also low in specific minerals and vitamins. I would recommend all of you to go to someone who has this equipment and test yourself. There are many diffrent kind of frequency analysers, with diffrent names. Onother one is called Physiospect. I also tested positive for Epstein-Barr-virus (and other viruses) with yet another one - Bicom Bioresonance. They can combat viruses/parasites with that machine too. I've also done a blood microscope test that showed platelets that clap themselves (thick blood) and parasites.

See more here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lvKar2wbbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVjRCtkRUIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtZFvr4jPFc

Great analysis, I've theorized my self that endothelial dysfunction could be the cause of inflammation symptoms outside of the urethra. I personally also experience POIS when smoking, which is clearly a case of allergy to a component in the cigarette. But it's also a clear case where these components inter the blood and from there symptoms start. Thus POIS is most likely also a case where semen dilates to the blood and from there an immune reaction happens. See, I believe POIS is two things, one, there is an immune reaction ( perhaps mast cell activation syndrome ) but also a case where semen infiltrates to the blood and goes all over the body. I personally don't suffer from flu like symptoms, but my cognitive symptoms in both POIS and post smoking. I'm not sure if the inflammation in the brain occurs in the brain it self or in the blood vessels connected to the brain, but there is definitely inflammation there.     

Nas

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 02:34:10 PM »
The substances that cross the blood vessel wall and cause the inflammation might be related to testosterone and estrogen (and other hormones?). I have done a blood and salive analyse of my testosterone and estrogen. Testosterone was very low, estrogen normal. Its the estrogen metabolites (break down products) that are extreemly inflammatory and cancerogenic as well. Maybe the testosterone balances those.


My testosterone is actually normal high and estrogen is completely normal, see here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e0PaO53o6DOgrVA4LJh1Z46ZoaInXa38/view?usp=drivesdk

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 03:16:27 PM »
Great analysis, I've theorized my self that endothelial dysfunction could be the cause of inflammation symptoms outside of the urethra. I personally also experience POIS when smoking, which is clearly a case of allergy to a component in the cigarette. But it's also a clear case where these components inter the blood and from there symptoms start. Thus POIS is most likely also a case where semen dilates to the blood and from there an immune reaction happens. See, I believe POIS is two things, one, there is an immune reaction ( perhaps mast cell activation syndrome ) but also a case where semen infiltrates to the blood and goes all over the body. I personally don't suffer from flu like symptoms, but my cognitive symptoms in both POIS and post smoking. I'm not sure if the inflammation in the brain occurs in the brain it self or in the blood vessels connected to the brain, but there is definitely inflammation there.   

Thanks for your answer. The urethra/semen hypothesis is intresting but it seems to me a little strange that the semen would have time to enter the blood through the urethra considering that the ejaculation only takes seconds. Personally I use to urinate right after emission so that would clear out the urethra for semen rests and I still get POIS. Further there is a constant drain of semen from the prostata when urinating that could be very visible sometimes. At least I do not get POIS after those drainage.

Considering the soup of hormones that are released during orgasm, and which some are known to be inflammatoric, I find it more logic that the hormones are the bad guy for the inflammation. They stays in the blood stream for days and if there is a endothelial dysfunction they will have a long time to pass the blood wall. I read that nitric oxide, prostacyclin (prostaglandin I2) and endothelin are released from the endothelium. Endothelin constrict blood vessels, same as cigarette smoke does. Nitric oxide and prostacyclin dilate them. I believe that I experience a constriction in the first day of the POIS cycle and then a dultion in the end of the cycle. At the last days I get an awful tension headache. I have not tryed to check my blood pressure since I do not have a reliable meter. Do you experience any change in blood pressure and visible blood vessels on your head or other parts of your body during POIS? Is there a change over time in the POIS cycle?

Perhaps the inflammatory hormones (or semen) is destroying the endothelia. Cholesterol is used by the body to heal injuries on the blood vessels (incorectly believed to causing arteriosclerosis). Build up of cholesterol is not the bad guy but instead inregular blood suger levels and insulin. I recall that some people here has got improvements by eating eggs! Cholesterol! Vitamin C is also a key player for vascular health as well as those nutrients discussed here:

https://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2015/9/Enhance-Your-Endothelial-Function/Page-01
https://www.lifeextension.com/Newsletter/2011/4/Coenzyme-Q10-Supplementation-Improves-Endothelial-Function/Page-01

Also read up on the science and nutritional approach on vascular health by Dr Matthias Rath:
https://www.dr-rath-foundation.org/
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 03:46:02 PM by BoneBroth »

Nas

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 05:52:11 PM »
Great analysis, I've theorized my self that endothelial dysfunction could be the cause of inflammation symptoms outside of the urethra. I personally also experience POIS when smoking, which is clearly a case of allergy to a component in the cigarette. But it's also a clear case where these components inter the blood and from there symptoms start. Thus POIS is most likely also a case where semen dilates to the blood and from there an immune reaction happens. See, I believe POIS is two things, one, there is an immune reaction ( perhaps mast cell activation syndrome ) but also a case where semen infiltrates to the blood and goes all over the body. I personally don't suffer from flu like symptoms, but my cognitive symptoms in both POIS and post smoking. I'm not sure if the inflammation in the brain occurs in the brain it self or in the blood vessels connected to the brain, but there is definitely inflammation there.   

Thanks for your answer. The urethra/semen hypothesis is intresting but it seems to me a little strange that the semen would have time to enter the blood through the urethra considering that the ejaculation only takes seconds. Personally I use to urinate right after emission so that would clear out the urethra for semen rests and I still get POIS. Further there is a constant drain of semen from the prostata when urinating that could be very visible sometimes. At least I do not get POIS after those drainage.

Considering the soup of hormones that are released during orgasm, and which some are known to be inflammatoric, I find it more logic that the hormones are the bad guy for the inflammation. They stays in the blood stream for days and if there is a endothelial dysfunction they will have a long time to pass the blood wall. I read that nitric oxide, prostacyclin (prostaglandin I2) and endothelin are released from the endothelium. Endothelin constrict blood vessels, same as cigarette smoke does. Nitric oxide and prostacyclin dilate them. I believe that I experience a constriction in the first day of the POIS cycle and then a dultion in the end of the cycle. At the last days I get an awful tension headache. I have not tryed to check my blood pressure since I do not have a reliable meter. Do you experience any change in blood pressure and visible blood vessels on your head or other parts of your body during POIS? Is there a change over time in the POIS cycle?

Perhaps the inflammatory hormones (or semen) is destroying the endothelia. Cholesterol is used by the body to heal injuries on the blood vessels (incorectly believed to causing arteriosclerosis). Build up of cholesterol is not the bad guy but instead inregular blood suger levels and insulin. I recall that some people here has got improvements by eating eggs! Cholesterol! Vitamin C is also a key player for vascular health as well as those nutrients discussed here:

https://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2015/9/Enhance-Your-Endothelial-Function/Page-01
https://www.lifeextension.com/Newsletter/2011/4/Coenzyme-Q10-Supplementation-Improves-Endothelial-Function/Page-01

Also read up on the science and nutritional approach on vascular health by Dr Matthias Rath:
https://www.dr-rath-foundation.org/

What leads me to believe that Semen dilates through the urethra is just the simple question of why brain symptoms? Even if we as men have an allergic/inflammatory reaction to semen, it should be localized in the urethra, but obviously POIS is systematic, especially with those who suffer from flu like symptoms. So it must be entering the blood vessels. Now this could be because of two reasons: 1) Either the inflammation it self causes the endothelium to expand so that the immune system can deal with the semen 2) Or as you theorize we have a genetic factor that makes the blood vessels more elastic. For me symptoms build up, but I feel I instantly plummet into POIS just as I ejaculate, could be psychological though who knows. 

It's interesting that you believe that the inflammatoric factor in POIS is hormones related, since hormones related to POIS exist and get elevated in situation other than orgasm, NO for example occurs naturally when we get seasonal flu, no one gets POIS during seasonal flu though, correct? That's also the case with Prostacyclin and Endothelin. That's why I believe the inflammatoric factor is semen related, most likely sperms but I don't know, I'm not sure.

Yes I do have blood pressure symptoms. I'm not sure about blood pressure reading though as I didn't test in a very nuanced way. My pressure drops when I stand up instantly after Orgasm, and I overall feel like I have lower blood pressure symptoms. There is definitely something happening in my blood pressure I can feel it. I'm not sure I ever noticed a visible blood vessel as I don't even consider it, and my POIS cycle is pretty much I get slightly better each day after an ejaculation.

Also one last point about semen, semen contains much more foreign substances in the body than orgasm hormones.

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 07:21:56 PM »
There are cardiovascular symtoms in my familiy as well, including myself.
Could be the ANS, endothelial dysfunction/inflammation/activation, cholesterol metabolism, inflammation by cytokines, viral, hormonal. Vit C does degrade histamine btw. Mast cells could also play a role for example they could release MMP's which degrade collagen, these molecules can also induce joint pain which I have as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_metalloproteinase

My brother did a test that could indicate endothelial inflammation: Click here
My cholesterol has always been low. Doctors told me the lower your cholesterol the better, but is this true? What if my cholesterol is used up by an inflammatory/oxidizing reaction? Do I also got elevated Lp-PLA2? If so is there an inflammatory proces going on at the arterial wall? I have some old data lying around with cholesterol values which I can upload, will do that later.

People with Bell's palsy show elevated endothelin-1 and there a few on this forum including myself, that's an interesting parameter. This one is only available for bath analysis though I can't find it for single analysis. Endothelin-1 test.

Nas

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 07:29:05 PM »
My brother did a test that could indicate endothelial inflammation: Click here

What's Endothelial inflammation? Is it arterial inflammation or inflammation that is specific to the Endothelium or just a normal inflammation?
Also care to explain the test? I can't really understand the language or the parameters.

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 03:19:28 AM »
It's interesting that you believe that the inflammatoric factor in POIS is hormones related, since hormones related to POIS exist and get elevated in situation other than orgasm, NO for example occurs naturally when we get seasonal flu, no one gets POIS during seasonal flu though, correct? That's also the case with Prostacyclin and Endothelin. That's why I believe the inflammatoric factor is semen related, most likely sperms but I don't know, I'm not sure.

Yes I do have blood pressure symptoms. I'm not sure about blood pressure reading though as I didn't test in a very nuanced way. My pressure drops when I stand up instantly after Orgasm, and I overall feel like I have lower blood pressure symptoms. There is definitely something happening in my blood pressure I can feel it. I'm not sure I ever noticed a visible blood vessel as I don't even consider it, and my POIS cycle is pretty much I get slightly better each day after an ejaculation.

Also one last point about semen, semen contains much more foreign substances in the body than orgasm hormones.

For me the POIS headache comes in seconds after release. The time it would take for semen to reach the head should be much longer. As Nanna1's diagram shows epinephrine, norepinephrine,  prolactin are released on orgasm. All those hormones are pro-inflammatory. Prolactin is a pro-inflammatory hormone released from the pituitary gland. Prolactin receptors are widely distributed and are found in the CNS, adrenals, and on lymphocytes. The amounts of hormonal releases in Nanna1's diagram are probably measured in a healthy person without POIS and we do not know the status on testosterone and oxytocin in that individual. A POIS individual might released ten times more of those inflammatory hormones and could be low on testosterone and oxytocin.

Why I dont believe its the semen that causes my POIS is that I can get POIS without O, by just thinking thoughts in the direction of what use to cause O. The trigger in the brain is somehow oversensitive and it keeps beeing so as NE occurs frequently. It's a vicious circle. And as I said, POIS is not triggered on the constant semen waste release that occurs daily at urination.

Blood pressure that drops when standing up is a clear sign of weak adrenal function! I have always had low blood pressure and I have easy to faint when I get up quickly from sitting to standing. The adrenals can be weakened by long term cortisol production as a result of long term stress which I have had for decades. High suger intake (hight blood sugar) will make it worse. Have you also been subject to long term stress?

Nas

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2018, 12:30:01 PM »
One other point to why I think its the semen is that peeing right after ejaculation reduces the symptoms quite a lot. There is a substantial difference for me when I pee or don't pee after ejaculation.

Blood pressure that drops when standing up is a clear sign of weak adrenal function! I have always had low blood pressure and I have easy to faint when I get up quickly from sitting to standing. The adrenals can be weakened by long term cortisol production as a result of long term stress which I have had for decades. High suger intake (hight blood sugar) will make it worse. Have you also been subject to long term stress?

Yes I have been under stress for the last 6 years but it can be because of the mental side effects of POIS. I'm curious to dig in to my adrenal function before and after ejaculation.

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2018, 08:18:17 PM »
My brother did a test that could indicate endothelial inflammation: Click here

What's Endothelial inflammation? Is it arterial inflammation or inflammation that is specific to the Endothelium or just a normal inflammation?
Also care to explain the test? I can't really understand the language or the parameters.

Lp-PLA2 is a specific marker for vascular endothelial inflammation and since the vascular endothelial layer is, as far as I know, the first layer which makes up the arterial wall, meaning this is equal to arterial inflammation. It's no normal/general/systemic inflammation like CRP or cytokines. It's very specific. Vascular endothelial inflammation = vascular inflammation in this case, for a simple summary translate this page with your browser: https://www.imd-berlin.de/fachinformationen/diagnostikinformationen/lipoprotein-assoziierte-phospholipase-2-lp-pla2.html

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2018, 02:52:36 PM »
Thanks for info! Well, the day my doctor decides to check my Lp-PLA2 flowers will grow on the moon. I was a little too fast to make this thread. I see there is another thread that is simillar (Blood vessel theory). My thoughs is now in the direction that there is something about the quality of the blood, the cleansing of the blood, the vessels and the flow that has an important role to play here.

I checked my blood in a microscope some weeks ago and it was very sticky. I should have taken a picture of it and posted it here! The platelets looked like tubes with stacked coins. They should be free flowing! However many people have sticky blood nowdays and it is a potential health hazard. I've been very lazy in exercising during my years and have a job that means sitting still many hours every day and do intensive brain work (sounds familliar to anyone?). This may conribute to why the symptoms last so long and why many people here report that the symtoms are alleviated by exercising. That makes the blood flow better. However! I cant figure out why the symptoms get worse for me when I do heavy thinking, exercise the days after a POIS. That should increase the blood flow and clean out the inflammation but maybe it just give the inflammatory substances access to more part of the bodey an deeper parts of the brain.

I was taking a special drink to improve the blood stickyness and flow some year ago (formulated by the doctor who did the blood microscope analyses, it was sticky then too) and that made the POIS ger better. However that drink had such a horrible taste that I had to stop taking it after some months. It was many ingredients to mix also. Kind of expensive. Some of the ingredients was MSM, kalcium, magnesium, bicarbonate.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 02:55:56 PM by BoneBroth »

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 03:29:17 PM »
Well I did get blood drawn last week. The first and second tube filled up normally but the third one did not. It filled up very slowly, she moved the needle back and forth to get some blood, it was really a creeping flow. This happened in the past as well. Also in 2013 when heavy POTS struck me I had the idea that my blood turned into syrup (I know it's a ridiculous statement but still this popped into my mind when it happened). It felt like it did not flow fast enough to my brain.

I needed heavy exercise (pumping) to counter this effect. I wonder if the physical properties of the blood like viscosity has been altered or that some inflammation of the arterial wall causes more resistance to the blood flow. There is actually a type of POTS where blood flows much slower than normal. The problem is that POIS damages the body and exercising with a damaged body doesn't feel right and is hard to do.
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2014/05/06/blood-volume-will-ischemia-key-pots-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

When my symptoms snowballed, including POIS, I did exercise a lot, almost daily (soccer or fitness), it just doesn't make any sense.

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 04:50:29 PM »
Actually I remember some nurse who took my blood made the same point. My blood also looked thick. POIS'ers should do a blood microscopy test to see if we all have thicker blood then others. This inspires me to get all the ingredients to make a new anti-thick-blood drink again and try it after POIS! By the way, did I say that my blood pressure also falls upon standing up from a sitting position? I have even fainted twice. And my pulse is always low when I do not have POIS. Its about 50-54 beats per minute and the blood presure 116/62 today. When I have POIS the pulse raises to 60-70 because of the inflammation. How often did you exercise when you got POIS from the beginning and the first years? And now? And what kind of exercise do you perform?

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 05:22:19 PM »
I did it in the summer of 2013 from a standpoint of pure survival on a daily basis. If I didn't exercise my ANS would go haywire.  The second I woke up in the morning and sitting up blood was immediately pooling to my lower part of my body so I first ate something and immediately hit the gym and start pushing heavy weighs (with a damaged body). I made only sets of 3-5 reps. Sometimes I could lie down on a bench between sets for relatively long periods even like 10 mins to charge myself up again. When I was done with exercising the blood pooling decreased but it takes about an hour after exercise to make a transition to a state where I could posture up without the feeling the center of mass of my blood volume was shifting downward.

The beta blocker I have used in times of emergency does something similar but that effect is fast, almost instantly like hitting a switch and has nasty side effects. I don't exercise at the moment I recovered from POTS for the most part. I still have moments where transition between positions leads to >30 BPM but it stabilizes within minutes. In 2013 Heart rate did not stabilize, you had to lie down. I did not do any threadmill/condition like exercises, that didn't help like the ones they mention in papers.

The kind of exercises were like: Bench presses, leg press, lat pull but almost all in an inclined or flat position. Low amount of reps (less is more), short extensions (=less taxing on joints) and the amount of mass was heavy in the sense you had to put effort into it. The resting between sets was variable and depending on the state I were in. If I had to do an exercise in a postured up position I first did an exercise in a flat position and then switched to a sitting position, after that one going to a flat position again. This had nothing to do with POIS it was just pure POTS, ANS and temperature related.

At the beginning of POIS I exercised as part of a hobby, like soccer and fitness and was quite different in setup than the period in 2013 when I needed to exercise in a different way when POTS hit me. Basically instinct drove me to this type of exercise in 2013 (it really felt like an autonomic crisis).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 05:31:32 PM by Muon »

Nas

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2018, 05:52:08 PM »
Mine is thick too, when ever I make a blood test it's always extremely black, thick and hard to draw.

BoneBroth

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2018, 06:22:52 AM »
Is the blood viscosity included in the POIS survey?

More on the subject in Townsend letter, article from 2012, : http://www.townsendletter.com/Jan2012/measureblood0112.html

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Despite decades of treatments to lower cholesterol, regulate heart rhythms, and reduce salt and fat, cardiovascular disease is still the number one killer of adults in the industrialized world. It has been associated with nearly 300 independent risk factors, among them high LDL, low HDL, male gender, smoking, obesity, insulin resistance, sedentary lifestyle, age, and hypertension. Blood viscosity is the common factor ties all these factors together.
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The capacity of blood to carry oxygen to the tissues is directly correlated with hematocrit. However, it is also inversely correlated to blood viscosity.

I strongly recommend everyone here to check their blood viscosity and stickyness and compare that with healthy people (their GF/spouse). I'm not sure how (or if) the state health care do this, and if it is reliable. However I could warmly recommend blood microscopy which is most often performed by private clinics or individual therapeuts. The price is somewhare between $40-100 depending on if there is a individual health program included. However individual therapeuts use to be very flexible depending on your echononic status. If you bring your spouse/GF you might get a discount or even get two tests for the price of one, if you ask nicely. You can forget that flexibility in the state health care - 10 minutes in the doctors room and your off with a prescription of NSAID that would help you zero.

Also make a blood coagulation test. They are performed by the common healthcare. I made that when I was about 20 years old and I think the result was that I had slow coagulation time. I could bet on that everyone wit hsevere POIS has thick blood. This might be an important piece of the puzzle. And strategies to make th eblood less thick might work,  at least as a temporary POIS fix.

Oh and as I said before, also a frequenze analyser can show you the viscosity of the blood and many other factors concerning the health of the blood vessels and all of the organs in the body. However many people dont believe those are working despite them beeing used in the state health care in many countries. First I were kind of sceptic too as they looks like something from Startrek.

But they are beeing used by very serious people and as I saw that the analyse lined up very well with my ailments, and were confirmed by other metods and other frequence machines, I've started to believe that they are far superier any metods that the state health care has to offer. Theese kind of machines are clearly the future and might give so many pieces of the puzzle if more people contributed with their test results. The price for an analysis is about the same as for a blood microscopy.
   
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 06:41:41 AM by BoneBroth »

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2018, 07:51:13 AM »
I also forgot to mention that when the third tube was drawn and didn't fill up properly I got the feeling there was something wrong with my cardiovascular system (the idea I get when this happens is that my blood flow slowed down, don't know whether there is any truth to this) which was accompanied by deep and powerfull breathing (this is done instinctively, it feels that this need to be done to counter this feeling). This feeling only popped up during the start of the 3rd tube. When I experienced POTS this feeling was pretty standard though. I still encounter this but it mostly happens during the evening/night if I sat a lot for that entire day.

Muon

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2020, 11:01:10 AM »
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 11:10:51 AM by Muon »

Journey

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Re: Blood vessel elasticity and migrain/POIS
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2020, 10:51:59 AM »
Great analysis, I've theorized my self that endothelial dysfunction could be the cause of inflammation symptoms outside of the urethra. I personally also experience POIS when smoking, which is clearly a case of allergy to a component in the cigarette. But it's also a clear case where these components inter the blood and from there symptoms start. Thus POIS is most likely also a case where semen dilates to the blood and from there an immune reaction happens. See, I believe POIS is two things, one, there is an immune reaction ( perhaps mast cell activation syndrome ) but also a case where semen infiltrates to the blood and goes all over the body. I personally don't suffer from flu like symptoms, but my cognitive symptoms in both POIS and post smoking. I'm not sure if the inflammation in the brain occurs in the brain it self or in the blood vessels connected to the brain, but there is definitely inflammation there.   

Thanks for your answer. The urethra/semen hypothesis is intresting but it seems to me a little strange that the semen would have time to enter the blood through the urethra considering that the ejaculation only takes seconds. Personally I use to urinate right after emission so that would clear out the urethra for semen rests and I still get POIS. Further there is a constant drain of semen from the prostata when urinating that could be very visible sometimes. At least I do not get POIS after those drainage.

Considering the soup of hormones that are released during orgasm, and which some are known to be inflammatoric, I find it more logic that the hormones are the bad guy for the inflammation. They stays in the blood stream for days and if there is a endothelial dysfunction they will have a long time to pass the blood wall. I read that nitric oxide, prostacyclin (prostaglandin I2) and endothelin are released from the endothelium. Endothelin constrict blood vessels, same as cigarette smoke does. Nitric oxide and prostacyclin dilate them. I believe that I experience a constriction in the first day of the POIS cycle and then a dultion in the end of the cycle. At the last days I get an awful tension headache. I have not tryed to check my blood pressure since I do not have a reliable meter. Do you experience any change in blood pressure and visible blood vessels on your head or other parts of your body during POIS? Is there a change over time in the POIS cycle?

Perhaps the inflammatory hormones (or semen) is destroying the endothelia. Cholesterol is used by the body to heal injuries on the blood vessels (incorectly believed to causing arteriosclerosis). Build up of cholesterol is not the bad guy but instead inregular blood suger levels and insulin. I recall that some people here has got improvements by eating eggs! Cholesterol! Vitamin C is also a key player for vascular health as well as those nutrients discussed here:

https://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2015/9/Enhance-Your-Endothelial-Function/Page-01
https://www.lifeextension.com/Newsletter/2011/4/Coenzyme-Q10-Supplementation-Improves-Endothelial-Function/Page-01

Also read up on the science and nutritional approach on vascular health by Dr Matthias Rath:
https://www.dr-rath-foundation.org/

What leads me to believe that Semen dilates through the urethra is just the simple question of why brain symptoms? Even if we as men have an allergic/inflammatory reaction to semen, it should be localized in the urethra, but obviously POIS is systematic, especially with those who suffer from flu like symptoms. So it must be entering the blood vessels. Now this could be because of two reasons: 1) Either the inflammation it self causes the endothelium to expand so that the immune system can deal with the semen 2) Or as you theorize we have a genetic factor that makes the blood vessels more elastic. For me symptoms build up, but I feel I instantly plummet into POIS just as I ejaculate, could be psychological though who knows. 

It's interesting that you believe that the inflammatoric factor in POIS is hormones related, since hormones related to POIS exist and get elevated in situation other than orgasm, NO for example occurs naturally when we get seasonal flu, no one gets POIS during seasonal flu though, correct? That's also the case with Prostacyclin and Endothelin. That's why I believe the inflammatoric factor is semen related, most likely sperms but I don't know, I'm not sure.

Yes I do have blood pressure symptoms. I'm not sure about blood pressure reading though as I didn't test in a very nuanced way. My pressure drops when I stand up instantly after Orgasm, and I overall feel like I have lower blood pressure symptoms. There is definitely something happening in my blood pressure I can feel it. I'm not sure I ever noticed a visible blood vessel as I don't even consider it, and my POIS cycle is pretty much I get slightly better each day after an ejaculation.

Also one last point about semen, semen contains much more foreign substances in the body than orgasm hormones.
When sick this year with some cold I had 1 NE and 2 Os and 0 brainfog, cognitive slowdown. Now in POIS state they look less dilated. Will see if vessels look bigger with each day of noO.