Muon's Case

[Hopeoneday]

The best effect I had with brewed coffee under high pressure, highly quality arabica
cofee(with small amount of fatty milk work the best).
Since i discovered that is lipophilic,
beter apsorbtion of some substances.

But i am wery sensitive to coffeine ,
paradocsly i am not that sensitive on coffeine in pois days.
(cofee an coffeine hawe side effects)
so it depend on each individual.

Et the end, i discover this summer , that canned cofee on petrol pumps can be used to , i look that hawe real cofee in it and milk, and slowly small dosing .
It can couse bumping heart and yittering if ingested fast
and to much(insomnia to).

I can live 5 to 6 ours after this in pois.
...

[Muon]

You won't find elevated IgE when IgG4 is elevated because the latter suppresses IgE. Also IgG4 doesn't activate complement.

"After the chronic antigen exposure, IgG1 and IgG4 become the predominantly produced subclasses of IgG isotype. In addition, IgG4 is unable to activate the classical complement pathway and is then known as an anti-inflammatory immunoglobulin and a blocking antibody towards IgE antibodies." Immunodominant Semen Proteins III: IgG1 and IgG4 Linkage in Female Immune Infertility

A potential antigen in seminal fluid can be located via IgG4. If characterized it can be checked if the same antigen is involved in hypersensitivity to semen in the case of my mother and brother plus potential crossreactivity with other types of antigens which have nothing in common with sexual fluids.

A comprehensive characterization of the peptide and protein constituents of human seminal fluid

IgG4 could have been induced by SCIT.

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Allergen-specific intralymphatic immunotherapy in human and animal studies

"In the study of Witten et al. [13], both serum allergen-specific IgE and IgG4 were increased after ILIT. Moreover, IL-4 and IL-10 production, as well as the expression of FoxP3 increased, whereas interferon (IFN)-? production by stimulated PBMCs decreased after ILIT."

Androgen therapy also increases expression of FOXP3. It might be one mechanism. https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3127.msg37486#msg37486

"In our study, serum allergen-specific IgE and IgG4 increased 4 months after ILIT, but they had decreased by 1 year later"

Even the 'failure' in the brazilian patient (fidalgo) might be the same mechanism which reversed over time.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/0092623x.2019.1677835

"The patient was submitted to immunotherapy, and although he presented an improvement of symptoms in the first year of treatment, he quit immunotherapy after two years because the symptoms returned."

Intralymphatic Immunotherapy With Autologous Semen in a Korean Man With Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome

"The mechanism of ILIT is not sufficiently understood, but we propose that ILIT might be mediated by plasmablasts, plasma cells, and memory B cells that are activated by allergens injected into lymph nodes and produce allergen-specific IgE, IgG4, or other antibody isotypes with or without enhanced affinity."

[Muon]

Summer has come to an end and it's getting colder. I just took a walk outside when it was cold and felt so much better. The effect is insane. I have my central heating turned off and feeling better when night falls inside my apartment as well.

- Increased muscle strength, especially in lower limbs. I can stand on my legs without much problem (major difference compared to summer).
- Increased stability of heart rate
- Less intense POIS symptoms in general
- Faster recovery period of POIS symptoms
- Less brain fog
- Better metabolism/digestion
- Decreased food sensitivities
- Less joint pain (knees and spine)

Did some googling and found this: Immune Responses to Exercising in a Cold Environment

''Even brief exposure to cold leads to increased levels of norepinephrine and cortisol, lymphocytosis, decreased lymphoproliferative responses, decreased levels of TH1 cytokines and salivary IgA, and increased lactate levels during exercise.''

Symptoms have some overlap with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert%E2%80%93Eaton_myasthenic_syndrome
And with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myasthenia_gravis

"Applying ice for 2–5 minutes to the muscles reportedly has a sensitivity and specificity of 76.9% and 98.3%, respectively, for the identification of MG. Acetylcholinesterase is thought to be inhibited at the lower temperature, which is the basis for this diagnostic test."

"In LEMS, antibodies against VGCC, particularly the P/Q-type VGCC, decrease the amount of calcium that can enter the nerve ending, hence less acetylcholine can be released from the neuromuscular junction. Apart from skeletal muscle, the autonomic nervous system also requires acetylcholine neurotransmission; this explains the occurrence of autonomic symptoms in LEMS."

Also had an attack of acute weakness of respiratory muscles for 30 min once during a hot summer day in the past. This felt clearly as a mathematical step function (high transition speed and constant amplitude).

https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.ijbiomac.2005.10.003

[BoneBroth]

"Blood pressure generally is higher in the winter and lower in the summer. That's because low temperatures cause your blood vessels to narrow, which increases blood pressure because more pressure is needed to force blood through your narrowed veins and arteries."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/expert-answers/blood-pressure/faq-20058250

When I feel cold the blood vessels are at least 50 % smaller and sometimes hardly visible at all on the hands, in contrast to after a hot shower when they are bulging. This contraction is also making my pois symptoms less. I havn't tred it but potentially an orgasm would not cause as much pois when you are cold and if you keep cold that day. The pro-inflammation hormonal substances cannot leak as easy accross constricted blood vessels.

[Muon]

The pro-inflammation hormonal substances cannot leak as easy accross constricted blood vessels.

If something is leaking then VEGF is probably upregulated. VEGF also regulates BBB permeability.

[Muon]

Some food for thought documenting here otherwise I will forget these things:

Candida can also suppress the production of serotonin, crucial in depression.  Candida also down regulates IL-17, perhaps as a defense mechanism, as IL-17 is very important in removing Candida.  Recent research suggests that it might directly bind to Candida and induce nutrient starvation conditions in the organism.  Candida down regulates IL-17 by shifting the Kynurenine pathway the opposite direction that POIS does, which may support its proliferation in our bodies as a way to counter this effect.  Coincidentally, Staph. A infections counter the inflammatory effects of Candida, and a few years ago I had a antibiotic resistant Staph A. infection (MRSA).

The more I read about Candida, the more convinced I am that it is causing POIS.

Candida albicans Dampens Host Defense by Downregulating IL-17 Production

Check the parameters they are mentioning in this paper. Then compare it to my brother's data. I had an oral infection with fungi, also high lymphocyte proliferation. (Need to take a closer look at this later)

Pityrosporum folliculitis is a fungal ‘acne’. Could it be PF? My doctor said that I have it. Ketonazole cream helps me.

You mentioned Daktarin earlier. That one in gel form got me rid of oral fungal outbreak (there were literally fungal wires appearing in my mouth). There was a problem. Normally you would swallow the substance. When I did that I got literally flattened by it, my legs got weak and I collapsed to the ground and my immune system felt extremely weak, never experienced something like this. So I called the doc and she said it never happened before, she contacted the producer and they told her I was the first case that experienced something like this. They advised me not to swallow it just flush the mouth. I still don't know why I reacted so extreme to it (herxheimer?). If that was a herxheimer reaction then perhaps I should take it again.

-The Daktarin was doing the same thing as high environmental temperatures, namely upper leg weakness but much more extreme. Infection was only present in mouth. The Daktarin reaction is probably a mast cell response. The immune system is probably not weak (although it felt like it) but in overdrive. It could be driven by mast cells. Mast cells driving local immune homeostasis potentially driving oral IL-17 down as well.

-Low cholesterol levels can't keep up with repair of myelin due to inflammation?

[Muon]

What's your diet like anyway?

I don't eat any refined grains or sugars, though I do eat fruit and plenty of whole grains. My last IGG4 test showed a pretty strong candida response, which my physician said means I had an overgrowth at some point.

Hmmm....I wonder if it crossreacts with seminal products and is it IgG4 antibodies against C. albicans that bumps up my total IgG4? Could the high lymphocyte proliferation response to candida albicans indicate gastrointestinal lymphocytosis?

[Muon]

Alterations of Food-specific Serum IgG4 Titers to Common Food Antigens in Patients With Irritable Bowel Syndrome

Food-specific IgG4 antibody-guided exclusion diet improves symptoms and rectal compliance in irritable bowel syndrome

Role of IgG4 in IgE-mediated allergic responses

IgG4 food tests?

[Muon]

Hi Colm,
I think all the things you mention can be also beneficial ,
I tried them all, but did not find any significant relief, but perhaps in combination with alcohol, I mean in wine,  they work better ?
But in my case I can?t figure out anything else but the alcohol (ethanol) is what makes the difference.  Also because in the past I had experieces with beer and stronger liquor which also gave relief.
In someway or another the alcohol blocks the outbreak of POIS or stimulates something which outcompete the pois-outbreak.

Same for my mother. Relief from a little bit of alcohol, not too much though. Red wine is the best. There is some overlap here.

1. I think Sam-e and Choline supplement has done wonders for me.  My face paresis (post car accident) has disappeared since last 2 weeks.  I'd say safely 90% improvement (for the first time in my life)

(acetyl)Choline involved in my Bell's palsy?

Sarcoidosis-Associated Lambert-Eaton Myasthenic Syndrome in a Patient with Dysphagia and Recurrent Bell’s Palsy

[Muon]

Another weird thing is - I've had, and still have, a weird symptom that consists in shaking or trembling as a result of any physical effort. It feels as if my nerves were malfunctioning and unable to transmit signals like they should....

Got this as well. Happens when going over a certain threshold.

During sex there is increased blood pressure, body movement, blood flow to large muscles, deep breathing leading to activation of vagus nerve activity and consequent relaxation of this nerve ....

I believe there is a blood volume redistribution present as a response to POIS in conjunction with vasoconstriction, that's also a reason why I think you will get a pale skin. I'm not exactly sure whether it goes to skeletal muscles, organs or large muscles. It's possible my exercise intolerance stems from this phenomena besides inflammation. The vagus nerve could be involved.

https://youtu.be/rIUccEITT6E?t=1665

[Muon]

A Pilot Study of Diagnostic Neuromuscular Ultrasound in Bell’s Palsy

"We think that our findings may reflect diffuse nerve inflammation and edema, rather than reflecting focal swelling from the entrapment."
"In our study, we found no evidence of vagus nerve pathology by ultrasound scanning in Bell’s palsy patients."

Was (or is) there diffuse nerve inflammation going on in my Bell's palsy (or in POIS)? Is it that just in my case a section of the cranial VII nerve was inflamed at the skull entrance while in other poisers other section of different nerves are diffusively inflamed? Chemokines attracting immune cells? Had a MRI which didn't show anything. Steroid+anti-viral trial didn't do anything, didn't even had side effects. MRI showed nothing.

Focal swelling involved? Sometimes i get the impression that there are short-lived focal flares of elevated pressure present in local tissue throughout the body or whatever it might be (very subjective interpretation). Vagus nerve pathology in Bell's palsy? Is that even a possibility? Can the vagus nerve be diffusively inflamed?

Is there diffuse nerve inflammation in my lower part of the spine?

I'm having problems with abnormal tension responses especially due to sexual related triggers at the moment. Sometimes they flare up spontaneously. My brain isn't stable either ,it is fluctuating.

I also get the impression that a pumping mechanism isn't optimal (breathing isn't optimal either). I'm really focussed on blood flow but is it only blood flow? Because most of the time I feel the center of my head and if I maintain a steady normal breathing frequency (which need to be forced) my brain feels better just as my extremities. Is CSF pumping involved? Is the pressure felt in my lower part of the spine CSF pooling? Is the CSF pumping mechanism, which is vagal/cardiac driven, Dr. VanElzakker is talking about not optimal? I had many moments in the past where I got the impression the fluids where stationary inside my head.

ME/CFS at the Intersection of the Nervous & Immune Systems (Lecture) - Michael VanElzakker, PhD

Systems might be out of phase, just as abnormal tension responses. Vagus nerve also communicates with mast cells, in that case, if involved, MCA might be vagal driven.

Anyway it's a damn shame my family doesn't get genetically investigated.

[Iwillbeatthis]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-020-0692-2 - bumetanide gets rid of fluid build up in the body I was thinking to order some from overseas to try. MRI scan four years ago showed oedema at my sacroiliac joint

[Muon]

Btw I found out that the level of Sam-e in the body modulates the release of IL-10 and IL-35

Metabolic and Epigenomic Regulation of Th17/Treg Balance by the Polyamine Pathway

"there was a trend towards a decrease in IFN-g, IL-17 and TNF production with an increase in IL-9 production in response to antigen"

Bluesbrother's TNF-alpha going down as well.

"Different types of Th17 cells have also been identified in humans where Th17 cells akin to mouse pathogenic Th17 cells have been shown to be specific for Candida albicans and non-pathogenic Th17 cells have been shown to be similar to Th17 cells that have specificity for Staphlococcus aureus infection."

- when I was a kid - Staphylococcus aureus (not many symptoms, mainly in throat)
- since I was 19 ? symptoms like in inflammation of the prostate gland (I take no drugs for it because symptoms 1-2 times in month for 1-3 hours, from time to time control visit by urologist); I have not often prostate symptoms till today (also weak urine stream, but it could be worse)

...Sounds like an 'abnormal' endogenous process due to orgasm that can be triggered by an exogenous substance, in this case semen...

...From second paper:
"Human seminal plasma contains very high concentrations of prostaglandins when compared to other bodily secretions. It is now apparent that PGE2, 19-hydroxyprostaglandin E1 and 19-hydroxyprostaglandin E2 are the three major prostaglandins in human seminal plasma, each being present in millimolar concentrations..."

I think it's the prostaglandins in the semen that cause this. Or it could be caused by the polyamines (spermine, spermidine).

[Muon]

Hmmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcortin  (also known as corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) or serpin A6)

""Hepatic synthesis of corticosteroid-binding globulin more than doubles in pregnancy; that is, bound plasma cortisol in term pregnancy is approximately 2 to 3 times that of nonpregnant women"

Microbial Changes during Pregnancy, Birth, and Infancy

What if the females in my family with health issues felt better during pregnancy due to changes in their microbiome? Are the strains, that change during pregnancy, responsible for my POIS? Mothers give part of their microbiome to their children if I'm not mistaken. Could these strains be targeted? Questions....

[Journey]

Hmmm...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcortin  (also known as corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) or serpin A6)

""Hepatic synthesis of corticosteroid-binding globulin more than doubles in pregnancy; that is, bound plasma cortisol in term pregnancy is approximately 2 to 3 times that of nonpregnant women"

Microbial Changes during Pregnancy, Birth, and Infancy

What if the females in my family with health issues felt better during pregnancy due to changes in their microbiome? Are the strains, that change during pregnancy, responsible for my POIS? Mothers give part of their microbiome to their children if I'm not mistaken. Could these strains be targeted? Questions....

I was born through a c-section so I maybe didn't get these bacteria that in the image are said to be given to the offspring through the natural delivery Muon do you know if those strains mentioned which don't transfer through csection can lack of them increase chances of POIS and Aspergers and such things I was breastfed though so I got the ones from that but not from natural birth due to being born through a csection.

[Muon]

There is no need to quote that entire thing LOL. I have no idea (yet) and haven't looked into it properly Journey. Just dumped it here to remind myself to look into it further and ideas for other people to delve in. You should check your vitamin D level first. You can do you own research by reading papers.

[Muon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/k5fagh/do_i_have_pois/

"So I what I found that helps mainly is getting a good high from exercising, so for example getting a runners high or a pump during lifting. That greatly reduces my POIS symptoms."

Intens (heavy weights) body building exercises (most of them in flat or inclined position). Short powerful movements, almost explosive with Reps between 3-5. The trick is you need to induce a pump. Need to add more details.

So, now, whenever I get symptoms, I run on a treadmill or lift weights or do whatever kind of intense physical exercise I feel like doing until I'm exhausted and drenched in sweat, and while sometimes symptoms take a few hours or even a day to resolve after that, it's nothing compared to the minimum of a week that they usually last.

[BoneBroth]

Muscles in movement does not only burn fat but an increased metabolism also break down inflammatory hormonal rest products faster. In addition it stimulates testosterone and testosterone rebuilds tissue and counteract inflamatory hormones.

[Muon]

Norethisterone does nothing for me. I don't get a response like mentioned in the paper. I also don't get any side effects from it.

[Muon]

Genetic component?

"I am a female in my mid 30s and I've begun having "hangovers" from masterbation recently. I get tiredness for 1-3 days, feelings of mild anxiety, unreality/lack of concentration and headache and sometimes loss of appetite...I just generally feel "down". I have experimented several times with stopping for weeks and starting up again and it seems linked to orgasm and nothing else. I have never had any difficulty with this before so I'm not sure why I would suddenly develop a psychological problem with sex. I have had symptoms of CFS which my sister is diagnosed with, and suffered a head injury last year in a car accident. I understand that many people develop CFS or have it worsen after being injured or traumatized in some way." Ref