Testosterone

[BoneBroth]

Yea, our test thread is still too thin to draw any conclutions. It lacks many hormonal substances to compare with.

[demografx]

Yea, our test thread is still too thin to draw any conclutions. It lacks many hormonal substances to compare with.

Thank you, BoneBroth

[demografx]

https://tinyurl.com/545suunp

Sounds like a scam to me…why would [a doctor] lose his time talking to you on the phone for $50 ?   
Maybe a no-life Doctor....or a scammer...

Above emphasis [bold type] is mine - Demo

Quantum:…or maybe a newbie, retired or rural doctor

Online “visits” can easily be transacted by a newbie/rural/retired doc. But it’s not too easy for those-type doctors to get $100 - $250 appointments - - as you well described in your earlier post - - especially in person. And this service does seem very able to find the more expensive GP’s & specialists as well.

Scam? I don’t think so. But perhaps a very clever marketer. And perhaps useful for some people, not all.

JustAnswer has a consumer rating of 4.3 stars from 2,822 reviews indicating that most customers are generally satisfied with their purchases. Consumers satisfied with JustAnswer most frequently mention great service, quick response and legal advice. JustAnswer ranks 1st among Question And Answer sites.

Bold emphasis - - directly above - - is from sitejabber.com website - Demo

Green emphasis is mine - Demo

[demografx]

Sleep study last night [July 2, 2021].

As expected (this was my 2nd study), I showed
severe sleep apnea

Improved POIS symptom relief (took regular dose of 6mg testosterone & Tylenol PM - - includes 50mg Benadryl - - right before study)

Slept better than in YEARS. Mood lifted. Chronic fatigue lifted as well.

Resisted mask wearing for years. Now ready to wear it!!

Last night [October 11, 2021] was my
first night using a CPAP device at home - - before last night it was only done using CPAP  at an overnight medical laboratory sleep study.

In spite of solid medical advice & dire warnings that - - considering my severe condition of
sleep apnea - - I could die or suffer a stroke without CPAP breathing assistance, I still resisted it for the last 5 years (strictly a mental/psychological adjustment!)

I also witnessed - - once again - - a dramatic improvement in my current POIS symptoms (above and beyond my TRT/Benadryl/Tylenol routine).

Placebo effect? Time will tell.

It’s still working!

(Also resumed today my endocrinologist-approved higher dose TRT)

Thanks, Berlin1984 for your excellent advice about striking out the accurately-maligned frequent/heavy use Benadryl in all my posts! Starting here!

[demografx]

With my newfound 30-day supply of TRT patches, I continue my old POIS treatment regimen.

It’s still working for me: today is POIS Day Zero (POIS symptom onset began this morning).

For details, read my recent posts at this Testosterone thread. I have been using this protocol (TRT + Benadryl - note: a Benadryl side effect for me is nightmares for the last 10 years.

Can it work for you? That’s for you and your doctor to explore. We are all different.

This continues to work for me. But...I slept 17 hours - Benadryl-aided - since last night, plus “rested” the rest of today. Sleep for me is extremely effective, but I’m retired, so everyone can’t easily do this. I’m lucky in that respect. But not so lucky in my decades of working!

• I do not exceed Benadryl’s published dose guidelines.

But you should be aware of some risks, e.g.,
Benadryl’s increased dementia risk
in this Harvard Medical School article:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667

• I work closely under my endocrinologist’s supervision. I recently asked for - and received - an increase in TRT dosage. But only after a new blood test which confirmed my still-low T.

• After many failed attempts, it was only the guidance of this forum’s predecessor, Naked Science Forum/POIS thread, that led me to a successful treatment.

It’s still working!
(For the last 11 years)

It’s  NOT working 100%, but still, I’m down from a lifetime (40+ years!!) of:

• 4 days’ POIS agony

to

• 1 day POIS - - usually mild, but if my current POIS episode is too close in timing to the previous time’s POIS, it’s……not so great a day

[demografx]

Word of caution: taking testosterone can possibly make you infertile.

In my case, my sperm count went to
0.00!

I have grown children, so I’m ok. But if you’re planning on having children, please consult your doctor (I prefer endocrinologists).

One of my endocrinologists said there might be a way to reverse the infertility, but I wasn’t interested (I’m 75 now), so I didn’t pay close attention to the protocol.

Best wishes, everyone, for 2022!

Demo

[mike_sweden]

Testosterone Protects Against Severe Influenza by Reducing the Pro-Inflammatory Cytokine Response in the Murine Lung

Influenza A virus pathogenesis may differ between men and women. The 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic resulted in more documented hospitalizations in women compared to men. In this study, we analyzed the impact of male sex hormones on pandemic 2009 H1N1 influenza A virus disease outcome. In a murine infection model, we could mimic the clinical findings with female mice undergoing severe and even fatal 2009 H1N1 influenza compared to male mice. Treatment of female mice with testosterone could rescue the majority of mice from lethal influenza. Improved disease outcome in testosterone treated female mice upon 2009 H1N1 influenza A virus infection did not affect virus titers in the lung compared to carrier-treated females. However, reduction in IL-1β cytokine expression levels strongly correlated with reduced lung damage and improved influenza disease outcome in female mice upon testosterone treatment. In contrast, influenza disease outcome was not affected between castrated male mice and non-castrated controls. Here, influenza infection resulted in reduction of testosterone expression in male mice. These findings show that testosterone has protective functions on the influenza infection course. However, 2009 H1N1 influenza viruses seem to have evolved yet unknown mechanisms to reduce testosterone expression in males. These data will support future antiviral strategies to treat influenza taking sex-dependent immunopathologies into consideration.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.00697/full

[demografx]

Testosterone Protects Against Severe Influenza by Reducing the Pro-Inflammatory Cytokine Response in the Murine Lung…..[cont’d]

Interesting.

Thanks, mike_sweden!

[Lihua]

almost all of the blood test of POISer have no any problems----vitamin mineral or hormone

How many POISer blood test results have you seen for their free testosterone levels?

five POISers in China and some POISers in this forum and some POISers in research paper, all of them are normal. Although one man benefit from HCG, his free testosterone is at the lower limit so it is also normal.

[demografx]

almost all of the blood test of POISer have no any problems----vitamin mineral or hormone

How many POISer blood test results have you seen for their free testosterone levels?

five POISers in China

Only 5 POISers from a population of
***1.402 billion*** is indicative of conclusive evidence?

and some POISers in this forum

show me their FREE testosterone results! I never saw this.


and some POISers in research paper,

again, please show me their FREE testosterone results.

 all of them are normal. Although one man benefit from HCG, his free testosterone is at the lower limit so it is also normal.

I am quite unconvinced!

[Lihua]

almost all of the blood test of POISer have no any problems----vitamin mineral or hormone

How many POISer blood test results have you seen for their free testosterone levels?

Below: plain text - - Lihua
          bold text - - Demografx

five POISers in China

Only 5 POISers from a population of
***1.402 billion*** is indicative of conclusive evidence?

and some POISers in this forum

show me their FREE testosterone results! I never saw this.


and some POISers in research paper,

again, please show me their FREE testosterone results.

 all of them are normal. Although one man benefit from HCG, his free testosterone is at the lower limit so it is also normal.

I am quite unconvinced!

1. Only 5 POISers saw my doctor-------it DOESN'T mean only 5 POISers in China----maybe they do not know POIS or they are not interested in the treatment. ALL of their testosterone are in normal range--------I have seen all the five test results, if you do not believe, I have no other ways.
2. I am sorry that in the case that HCG cured the POIS, the free T is lower than normal------I know the difference between free T and total T just now. My sorry.   So it means that total T in the five POISers are normal but free T is uncertain because we did not test our free T.

[demografx]

…various paper and people have shown that
it is almost impossible that POIS is caused by endocrine problems…

emphasis above (bold) is mine -Demo

Only 5 POISers saw my doctor------- if you do not believe, I have no other ways.

Lihua, I believe you!

But it is
O N L Y  5   people
out of a Chinese population of
*****1+ billion people!*****

Lihua, don’t you believe in sampling error and statistical significance?

Sorry, but I have no more to say on the subject. Even our PhD Research Team believe hormones are important to study for POIS!

Please look once again at my post from our POIS Research Team about hormones and POIS.

Lihua, your assumptions about the impact of hormones on POIS are incorrect and based on very flimsy data.

My firm basis comes from my own very direct experience - - successfully treating my own POIS with testosterone  - - plus moderating this forum for the last 15 years.

And working with professional sex researchers.

From our POIS Study 2022
Research Director:

”I will say that hormones influence a great many factors that may be relevant to POIS symptoms, including the inflammatory system and the nervous system. So it’s reasonable to think an endocrinologist would be a useful part of the treatment team for POIS.”

OUR POIS 2022 NORD RESEARCH STUDY

“For the study of post-orgasmic illness syndrome, with funding from POISCenter.com:
Tierney Lorenz, Ph.D., University of Nebraska-Lincoln (Lincoln, NE); Autonomic, endocrine, and immune mediators of post-orgasmic illness syndrome”

[Progecitor]

Even if we don't have serum hormone alterations, it can't be excluded that POIS is a hormonal issue. Intracrinology is an emerging scientific approach and is more likely to appropriately address issues related to POIS.

This distinct mechanism of androgen precursor activation, action and inactivation in peripheral androgen-target cells was first termed intracrinology by Labrie et al. and is linked to classical genomic androgen signalling in both men and women.
After cellular influx, an androgen precursor steroid is enzymatically activated by cell-specific enzymes and pathways before exerting its effect via the AR. Active androgens are subsequently inactivated enzymatically prior to being released from the cell for excretion. This concept of hormone action is termed "intracrinology" and is distinct from the classical concept of "endocrinology" with a designated gland secreting active hormones into circulation exerting direct effects on receptors in target tissues.
As intracrine androgen activation takes place in the cell and may start with the uptake of an androgen precursor and end with the efflux of an inactive androgen metabolite, circulating levels of active androgens are not a valid reflection of total body androgen action. The assessment of circulating precursors in particular (androstenedione) A4 including 11-oxygenated C19 steroids or androgen metabolites (androsterone) AST-glucuronide, 3a-adiol-3-glucuronide and 3a-adiol-17-glucuronide are thus recommended to assess androgen burden.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303720717304525

Also in the same review:
The presence of SRD5A1 allows for the local production of DHT, with the 5a-dione pathway bypassing T being the preferred route. Acne vulgaris and androgenic alopecia are associated with local androgen hyperproduction. Acne-prone skin expresses higher levels of androgen generating enzymes than non-acne-prone skin (HSD17B3 and AKR1C3 converting A4 to T, STS and SRD5A1. Local over-production of DHT has been proposed as cause of androgenic alopecia and 5a-reductase inhibitors are an established treatment for male pattern alopecia.

The major fractions of androgen metabolites are conjugated to facilitate their excretion. Indeed, a recent study quantifying androgen metabolites and their sulfo- and glucoconjugates in serum, showed that T and DHT circulate predominantly in their unconjugated form, while their metabolites androsterone (AST, 5a-androstan-3a-ol-17-one), epiandrosterone (5a-androstan-3B-ol-17-one, EpiAST) and 3a-adiol (5a-androstan-3a,17B-diol) were mostly conjugated, each with specific preferences for sulfation or glucuronidation. It has previously been suggested that the sum of the circulating metabolites AST-glucuronide and 3a/B-adiol-glucuronide should be used as estimates of active androgens produced in peripheral tissue (3B-adiol, 5a-androstan-3B,17B-diol).

Finasteride or Accutane are often used to treat these problems. At the same time several POIS cases can be connected to them. In both cases there were results that showed a low level of 3a-adiol-glucuronide.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=458.0
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1397.msg12889#msg12889
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=107.20

Besides this my case is most likely due to a lack of 3B-adiol as functional substitution with supplements ameliorates symptoms.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=4061.0

[demografx]

Even if we don't have serum hormone alterations,
it can't be excluded that POIS is a hormonal issue…

Agreed!

[Lihua]

With the progress of medicine, I now realize that all systems of the human body are closely combined. Problems with the immune system may also indicate problems with the endocrine system, but it's not so obvious.
Immune system problems and endocrine problems may be unified

[demografx]

With the progress of medicine, I now realize that all systems of the human body are closely combined. Problems with the immune system may also indicate problems with the endocrine system, but it's not so obvious.
Immune system problems and endocrine problems may be unified

Interesting.

[demografx]

Prior to my testosterone treatment I tried Levitra, an erectile dysfunction med, a PDE5 inhibitor - - as an experimental treatment for my POIS.

It worked.

Then it eventually stopped working.

Luckily, I found testosterone, which I’ve been on for 11 years - - for POIS.

Today, I thought I’d give PDE5 another chance, so I tried Cialis, minimum dose. Too early to tell. If it doesn’t improve my POIS in Quantum’s suggested testing timeline, you won’t hear any more about it from me in this thread.

Best,
Demo

[demografx]

…Today, I tried Cialis, minimum dose…
(Please see my directly preceding post)

Only hours later, slight improvement in my TRT-treated POIS.

The libido recovery rate is remarkable!

Even after POIS onset.

[Limejuice]

Good luck with this test set.

I remember reading that Cialis and Viagra have effects that relax smooth muscles tissues that are similar to niacin (flush). However, for me (with niacin) tolerance to those flushing effects built up quickly and became ineffective.

[demografx]

Thanks for the niacin/Cialis comparison, Limejuice. Had no idea!