B3 + Matcha powder tea pre-pack method (still POIS free after 30 months)

[Gino]

Is it effective to take after O as well, if you forgot to take before?

Not really effective afterwards. I forgot to take my pre-pack before O a couple of times. It was a failed edging situation and once O started I tried my best to not let the O be too intense. I immediately rushed to take the B3 (non-flush) and matcha combination however I still experienced moderate symptoms for a few days.

In additional to no POIS, I get benefits of my pre-pack of B3 (non-flush) with matcha powder tea:

- With pre-pack, I feel that I am much more controlled and perhaps less sensitive. I can enjoy a full O with as much effort as possible. A pleasant side effect is that I can usually continue sex immediately as if I didn't even O. This means I can sometimes enjoy sex for hours each day and not rest. The matcha gives me a state of calm alertness which translates well in bed. It's honestly the best I've felt in my life.

This is the polar opposite of my POIS if I did not take my pre-pack:

- Without pre-pack, the sensitivity of my whole nervous system means that sometimes a big O will feel like a magnified burst of tension that generates in my large muscle groups (calves, hamstrings, biceps) that rises up as an overwhelming punch to the brain that leaves me in some wasted state of static electricity. Within seconds I feel as if my life force is draining from my body starting with my face muscles - that facial drooping sensation that people mention. My sexual energy instantly switches off and I definitely can't and do not want to continue sex from that moment. I can barely stand, as if I just did a weight session at the gym. I just need to curl up and fade away but I usually experience as many as 20 full body twitches, perhaps aftershock Os in the next hour in reducing frequency. I crave for an adrenaline rush and resort to watching extreme sports on YouTube for half an hour. I have to force myself to keep breathing enough oxygen. Perhaps taking caffeine would help with breathing at that stage - obviously now I would drink matcha powder since it doesn't interfere with my sleep.

[BoneBroth]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I still have no good sollutions that works after O or NE (cant anticipate those). Nanna1's prepack helps to ease the side effects though.

[lw]

Is it effective to take after O as well, if you forgot to take before?

I crave for an adrenaline rush and resort to watching extreme sports on YouTube for half an hour.

This is odd. I also can't stop watching UFC during my POIS state.

[Gino]

Hello Gino,
Matcha also has very positive effect on me.
I read that overdosing of B3 has toxic effect on the organism. Are you aware of this fact?

Hi lw. Thanks for highlighting the issue of toxicity. For general understanding of safe levels of Vitamin B3 (non-flush type), dosages to treat other conditions have a recommended range of 14-750 mg per day (see reference [1]):

- 14 mg/day for normal health;
- 300-500 mg/day for treatment of B3 deficiency such as pellagra;
- 750 mg/day for treatment of acne (in combination with other required vitamins);

Liver toxicity occurs at doses of 3000 mg per day (i.e. 3 grams per day will damage your liver).

Of course, ask your pharmacist or doctor for their advice before regularly dosing with B3, especially if you have any existing health concerns involving your liver or kidneys.

Important distinction:
- I take the non-flush type of B3 called "Niacinamide or Nicotinamide (NAM)" only as a pre-pack dose before O. See reference [2].
- This is not the same as "Niacin" also known as "nicotinic acid" which often results in flushing of the skin.

I only take the non-flush type as a pre-pack before sex. I don't take it on any other days. As a trial I will decrease my dosage each time until I find a lower limit that is still effective as a pre-pack (with matcha powder tea).

References:
- [1] https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1534/niacinamide
- [2] Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide

[drop247]

Gino, sorry if I missed it but what is your dosage of Matcha powder? I just see 1 x glass which doesn't really tell us how much Matcha powder you are using.

[Gino]

Gino, sorry if I missed it but what is your dosage of Matcha powder? I just see 1 x glass which doesn't really tell us how much Matcha powder you are using.

Hi drop247. I take less than half a tea spoon of matcha powder and add one cup of 80 degrees Celsius water. Stir to mix up powder so it doesn't settle at the bottom.

Since I'm starting to build up tolerance to caffeine I'm now increasing the matcha dosage  to half of one tea spoon.

[sperrard]

Indeed it does work, but the stronger the POIS duration the lower the effects of the tea. Also it just takes enegry from your body reserves, so overusing it will make it useless and you will feel just tired.

[Gino]

Indeed it does work, but the stronger the POIS duration the lower the effects of the tea. Also it just takes enegry from your body reserves, so overusing it will make it useless and you will feel just tired.

Hi Sperrand. Did you take it as a 'pre-pack' in the hours before orgasm? In my experience it prevents POIS symptoms almost entirely without needing to use it afterwards in the days following.

[Warrior]

Have you tried taking a B complex? I've had amazing success with B complex in general. Fixed up a lot of mood, mental issues and seemed to improve my POIS solution very significantly. I've also heard the B vitamins are better taken as a B complex so you don't become deficient in one by taking a big dose of another.

You could take the B complex along with the B3 and matcha if the B complex does not have 500mg of B3 nicotinamide.

Just a suggestion / something to try, as you're seeing lots of success with B3, and a B complex did wonders for me

Just realised too that you are on a gluten-free diet! Our solutions are very similar. Have you tried fenugreek & garlic?

[Gino]

Have you tried taking a B complex? I've had amazing success with B complex in general. Fixed up a lot of mood, mental issues and seemed to improve my POIS solution very significantly. I've also heard the B vitamins are better taken as a B complex so you don't become deficient in one by taking a big dose of another.

You could take the B complex along with the B3 and matcha if the B complex does not have 500mg of B3 nicotinamide.

Just a suggestion / something to try, as you're seeing lots of success with B3, and a B complex did wonders for me

Just realised too that you are on a gluten-free diet! Our solutions are very similar. Have you tried fenugreek & garlic?

Hi warrioronthetrot.
Appreciate your reply and insights. My comments:
- My B3 + matcha pre-pack method is still working for me (roughly 2 years now).
- Yet to try B-complex, fenugreek & garlic. I'm interested in testing this for when I didn't properly follow my pre-pack method:
- For example, pre-pack <1 hour before O.
- In that situation I get mild POIS lasting a few days.
- 33% chance of nasal cold sore so I combat with Vitamin C and Lysine supplements immediately.
- If cold sore symptoms do start (tingling nose/lips) then I take valaciclovir immediately (single dose of 3 tablets).

Do let me know how you use B-complex, fenugreek & garlic. When, how often, what format, etc.
Thanks again.

[Warrior]

I have summarised my POIS solution (which includes B complex, fenugreek, & garlic) here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3964.msg42080#msg42080

Fenugreek & garlic work pretty much the same for me whether I take it before or after. 1-2g fenugreek and about 1/3 of a raw crushed garlic clove (let it sit for 5 minutes before consuming).
B-complex I take routinely in my life every 2nd or 3rd day or so, and usually on days I release. Whenever I notice I am feeling a bit murky, I take it.

[Gino]

Update: this pre-pack method is still working well for me.

If anyone tries it out, just remember that it's a pre-pack (preventative) method. It doesn't work as a post-pack treatment.

[Warrior]

Update: this pre-pack method is still working well for me.

If anyone tries it out, just remember that it's a pre-pack (preventative) method. It doesn't work as a post-pack treatment.

Hi Gino,

Happy to hear your solution is still working amazingly!

I have a question for you.

In the first 2 hours post release, do you experience a more intense wave of symptoms that then gradually dissolve very quickly into mild symptoms?

Or do you literally experience 0 symptoms from the get go.

Do you experience any moderate loss of energy?

Just getting a sense of the difference between our POIS solutions.

For me, I will always experience a more intense wave (the intensity of it varies according to the amount of plant foods I eat - leaky gut / plant proteins triggering immunity is my main theory) in the first 1-2 hours post release, which then gradually dissolve into very mild symptoms (as long as I am on an animal-based diet).

[Gino]

Update: this pre-pack method is still working well for me.

If anyone tries it out, just remember that it's a pre-pack (preventative) method. It doesn't work as a post-pack treatment.

Hi Gino,

Happy to hear your solution is still working amazingly!

I have a question for you.

In the first 2 hours post release, do you experience a more intense wave of symptoms that then gradually dissolve very quickly into mild symptoms?

Or do you literally experience 0 symptoms from the get go.

Do you experience any moderate loss of energy?

Just getting a sense of the difference between our POIS solutions.

For me, I will always experience a more intense wave (the intensity of it varies according to the amount of plant foods I eat - leaky gut / plant proteins triggering immunity is my main theory) in the first 1-2 hours post release, which then gradually dissolve into very mild symptoms (as long as I am on an animal-based diet).

Hi Warrior. When I use my pre-pack method, best case result is ~5% loss of energy and some slight muscle tightness during the rest of the day. No other symptoms.

So in comparison to your situation, I don't experience a 'wave' of symptoms after O (time of orgasm) that you described.

If I don't give the B3 enough time before O then I will experience POIS symptoms.


---- below are more notes that might help ----

Best Case to Worst Case results, from my experience, are related to timing of the pre-pack before O (time of orgasm):

 (a) B3 within 3-6 hours before O, + Matcha within 15-30 minutes before O. Result: Near zero POIS symptoms. [Best Case]
 (b) B3 within 1-2 hours before O, + Matcha within 15-30 minutes before O. Result: minimal POIS symptoms, manage with extra caffeine and sleep.
 (c) B3 within 0.5 hours before O, + Matcha within 15-30 minutes before O. Result: 50% chance of significant POIS symptoms.
 (d) B3 after O, + Matcha after O. Result: full POIS symptoms (I'm in a horrible POIS state for the next week). [Worst Case]

This is reflective of the post by member nanna1 that charts 'Plasma Niacin Concentration' over time. (Link: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3292.0)

I take the 'Slow-release niacin No-flushing' type (Nicotinamide B3), so the wait time is effectively 2 hours and could last up to 14 hours.

To increase effectiveness of the pre-pack method:
- Take sufficient matcha powdered tea (according to your personal caffeine tolerance level)
- Avoid heavy meals within 6 hours before O
- Avoid alcohol within 6 hours before O
- Test this method from a symptom-free state (as it's difficult to assess effectiveness of the pre-pack if already experiencing POIS symptoms)

About the ingredients:
- 'Matcha powdered tea' is what works for me. Anything similar such as matcha flavoured tea / green tea doesn't work for me at all.
- I believe the effectiveness come from the concentration of L-theanine contained in the matcha powder tea in combination the B3 (and the caffeine in the tea).
- The B3 I take is Nicotinamide 500mg. It is fat soluble so directions say to take it 'with food'. However I keep the amount of food to a minimum based on other members' experience that heavy meals reduce the effectiveness of niacin based pre-pack methods.
 (Example product: https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/21113/nature-s-own-vitamin-b3-500mg-with-vitamin-b-for-energy-skin-health---60-tablets)

Warning:
- I didn't try Niacin (flush type). My pre-pack method uses Nicotinamide (the no-flush type of B3). Carefully read the directions of any vitamins and medications that you take as there are many forms of niacin / B3 and the recommended daily dosages vary a lot.
- I don't take the B3 as a daily supplement. Other members have suggested that daily consumption could lead to building up a tolerance which I want to avoid.

Additional notes:
- I usually experience nasal cold sores during POIS, so I take Lysine tablets (which also includes Vit C & Zinc) in the days before and after to help avoid reoccurrence. (Example product: https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/58287/healthy-care-super-lysine-cold-sore-relief-1000mg-100-tablets)

[Warrior]

Update: this pre-pack method is still working well for me.

If anyone tries it out, just remember that it's a pre-pack (preventative) method. It doesn't work as a post-pack treatment.

Hi Gino,

Happy to hear your solution is still working amazingly!

I have a question for you.

In the first 2 hours post release, do you experience a more intense wave of symptoms that then gradually dissolve very quickly into mild symptoms?

Or do you literally experience 0 symptoms from the get go.

Do you experience any moderate loss of energy?

Just getting a sense of the difference between our POIS solutions.

For me, I will always experience a more intense wave (the intensity of it varies according to the amount of plant foods I eat - leaky gut / plant proteins triggering immunity is my main theory) in the first 1-2 hours post release, which then gradually dissolve into very mild symptoms (as long as I am on an animal-based diet).

Hi Warrior. When I use my pre-pack method, best case result is ~5% loss of energy and some slight muscle tightness during the rest of the day. No other symptoms.

So in comparison to your situation, I don't experience a 'wave' of symptoms after O (time of orgasm) that you described.

If I don't give the B3 enough time before O then I will experience POIS symptoms.


---- below are more notes that might help ----

Best Case to Worst Case results, from my experience, are related to timing of the pre-pack before O (time of orgasm):

 (a) B3 within 3-6 hours before O, + Matcha within 15-30 minutes before O. Result: Near zero POIS symptoms. [Best Case]
 (b) B3 within 1-2 hours before O, + Matcha within 15-30 minutes before O. Result: minimal POIS symptoms, manage with extra caffeine and sleep.
 (c) B3 within 0.5 hours before O, + Matcha within 15-30 minutes before O. Result: 50% chance of significant POIS symptoms.
 (d) B3 after O, + Matcha after O. Result: full POIS symptoms (I'm in a horrible POIS state for the next week). [Worst Case]

This is reflective of the post by member nanna1 that charts 'Plasma Niacin Concentration' over time. (Link: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3292.0)

I take the 'Slow-release niacin No-flushing' type (Nicotinamide B3), so the wait time is effectively 2 hours and could last up to 14 hours.

To increase effectiveness of the pre-pack method:
- Take sufficient matcha powdered tea (according to your personal caffeine tolerance level)
- Avoid heavy meals within 6 hours before O
- Avoid alcohol within 6 hours before O
- Test this method from a symptom-free state (as it's difficult to assess effectiveness of the pre-pack if already experiencing POIS symptoms)

About the ingredients:
- 'Matcha powdered tea' is what works for me. Anything similar such as matcha flavoured tea / green tea doesn't work for me at all.
- I believe the effectiveness come from the concentration of L-theanine contained in the matcha powder tea in combination the B3 (and the caffeine in the tea).
- The B3 I take is Nicotinamide 500mg. It is fat soluble so directions say to take it 'with food'. However I keep the amount of food to a minimum based on other members' experience that heavy meals reduce the effectiveness of niacin based pre-pack methods.
 (Example product: https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/21113/nature-s-own-vitamin-b3-500mg-with-vitamin-b-for-energy-skin-health---60-tablets)

Warning:
- I didn't try Niacin (flush type). My pre-pack method uses Nicotinamide (the no-flush type of B3). Carefully read the directions of any vitamins and medications that you take as there are many forms of niacin / B3 and the recommended daily dosages vary a lot.
- I don't take the B3 as a daily supplement. Other members have suggested that daily consumption could lead to building up a tolerance which I want to avoid.

Additional notes:
- I usually experience nasal cold sores during POIS, so I take Lysine tablets (which also includes Vit C & Zinc) in the days before and after to help avoid reoccurrence. (Example product: https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/58287/healthy-care-super-lysine-cold-sore-relief-1000mg-100-tablets)

Very interesting. Thank you for the detailed response

[Gino]

A reminder: “Do not confuse niacinamide with niacin, NADH, nicotinamide riboside, inositol nicotinate, or L-tryptophan. These are not the same.”

Source: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1534/niacinamide

Also, “Niacinamide-containing foods or supplements are safe when taken in doses lower than 35 mg daily. Niacinamide is possibly safe when taken in doses up to 900-1500 mg daily.”