Author Topic: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy  (Read 8765 times)

Monte

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #150 on: October 16, 2020, 12:26:28 PM »
I've been feeling very good for a long time lately, the pre-orgasm prepacks have worked beautifully. But yesterday I ate 2 sour mandarins. This was followed by symptoms such as tetany (jumping muscles, body pain) and POIS (brain fog, mood drop, anxiety). It was not so bad for a long time. I had to take prepack and calcium several times (50% improvement). Only today taking a multivitamin helped so much that now (after 30 hours) I'm 98% ok. Do you think that vitamin C in mandarins caused these symptoms? I had long suspected citrus as a symptom trigger as with POIS, but now I'm pretty sure. In addition to mandarins, I also had tofu in a sprout salad, but I suspect mandarins are the cause.

Clues

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #151 on: October 16, 2020, 03:32:56 PM »
I suspect mandarins are the cause.

Citrus fruits can trigger mast cell mediator release IIRC.
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nanna1

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #152 on: October 16, 2020, 03:57:13 PM »
Do you think that vitamin C in mandarins caused these symptoms?
Hi Monte, mandarins don't contain enough vitamin C to cause any near-term immune stimulation. The highest vitamin C foods (by weight) are:
guavas > bell peppers > kiwi > broccoli > papaya > snow peas > oranges > green leaf vegetables (spinach, kale).

If mandarins are causing problems, it is probably either the citric acid or the malic acid. I haven't had that reaction from mandarins, but lemons (high citric acid) used to give me a sore throat.

[...] Some of the recent research showed that interleukin 2 is reduced in copper deficiency and is likely the mechanism by which T cell proliferation is reduced. These results were extended to show that even in marginal deficiency, when common indexes of copper are not affected by the diet, the proliferative response and interleukin concentrations are reduced. The number of neutrophils in human peripheral blood is reduced in cases of severe copper deficiency. "
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9587153/
Good finds berlin1984!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:01:32 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
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berlin1984

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #153 on: November 10, 2020, 04:21:30 PM »
There used to be a ton of discussion about copper.

I did a hair mineral test and I'm now very confused about taking copper or not.
Maybe I should not have done the test while supplementing with copper though.  ::)

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg37430#msg37430
Please vote on: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3386.0
(There's real science behind it, not Astrology..)

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Prospero

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #154 on: November 10, 2020, 06:48:48 PM »
Hi nanna1,

I saw a doctor today who already knew POIS (which is quite rare for a non-specialist), and at the end of the meeting I succinctly summarized your theory. He thought it was complete bullshit and that you were a charlatan, sorry Nanna ^^ He was also very skeptical about the benefits of IV Vitamin C generally speaking, and seems to believe quite strongly in the thesis of a temporary dysautonomia (or this kind of neurological disorder). I'm French and the neurological cause is favored by the French researchers who have studied POIS, so this is not really surprising.

Though I don't make a big deal about his strong reject of your hypotheses (I probably explained it badly and, be that as it may, it was too quick for him to really think about it), he pointed out the efficacy of benzodiazepines, neuroleptics, SSRIs, beta-blockers, etc., at least in a reasonable number of cases, as a sign that the cause of the problem was neurological. I thought that it was indeed a kind of blind spot of what I understand about your theory.

What would be the link between the transient immune deficiency (and the possible viral infection leading to an impaired endorphin signalling), and the success of "neurological" treatments ? I can see that the serotonin depletion arguably provoked by IDO activation may provoke troubles that might be countered by serotonergics/SSRIs, but apart from that it's quite obscure to me. (Maybe the treatments are calming down some of the "opioid withdrawal-like" symptoms ?)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 10:23:26 PM by Prospero »

Muon

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #155 on: November 10, 2020, 07:12:16 PM »
I saw a doctor today who already knew POIS (which is quite rare for a non-specialist)

Could you ask your doctor if we can add him to this list?
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2575.0

Prospero

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #156 on: November 12, 2020, 09:36:05 AM »
I'll see but basically for POIS he will send me to prof. Amarenco of Hospital Tenon, who studies it and is already in the list. (Before that he wants to make some check-ups because he believes, as I do, that I have a prostatitis, and it would be better to know exactly what is caused by POIS and what is caused by prostatitis.)

Muon

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #157 on: November 12, 2020, 03:29:25 PM »
Before that he wants to make some check-ups because he believes, as I do, that I have a prostatitis.

Show him this paper: https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.jri.2013.02.004

Prospero

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #158 on: November 12, 2020, 03:53:40 PM »
Well, I'm sorry but I can't open it.

Muon

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #159 on: November 12, 2020, 04:04:19 PM »

Prospero

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #160 on: November 12, 2020, 04:43:47 PM »
The last one is the good one. Interesting, thank you.


kingfisher

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #162 on: November 17, 2020, 12:59:27 PM »
Hello Nanna1,

I have a question but maybe it is a foolish one...

I read on google that Covid mRNA vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer) can stimulate innate immunity. I am ignorant about the other types of Covid vaccines like AstraZeneca if they boost the innate immune system or not.

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccines.html

"Classical vaccine molecules usually only work with the acquired immune system and the innate immune system is activated by another ingredient, called an adjuvant. Interestingly, mRNA in vaccines could also trigger the innate immune system, providing an extra layer of defence without the need to add adjuvants."

One paper suggested SARS CoV-2 suppresses the innate immune response:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1074761320303332

Assuming the FDA clears mRNA vaccines in 2021 - do you think getting vaccinated by such a vaccine can increase the innate immunity of POISers ( at least those who think they have an innate immunity deficiency) so that there is a theoretical possibility for improving the transient immune deficiency condition during ejaculation?

I am completely ignorant if this mRNA vaccine-induced increase in innate immunity will help for other types of viruses like DNA viruses. As far as I could understand, innate immunity is not antigen-specific.

It will be great to hear your comments. Thanks!


« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 05:17:00 AM by kingfisher »

nanna1

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #163 on: November 26, 2020, 02:31:03 AM »
I read on google that Covid mRNA vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer) can stimulate innate immunity...

...One paper suggested SARS CoV-2 suppresses the innate immune response:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1074761320303332

...Assuming the FDA clears mRNA vaccines in 2021 - do you think getting vaccinated by such a vaccine can increase the innate immunity of POISers ( at least those who think they have an innate immunity deficiency) so that there is a theoretical possibility for improving the transient immune deficiency condition during ejaculation?...

...As far as I could understand, innate immunity is not antigen-specific.
Hi kingfisher,
  Good question! I am not sure if it will or won't work for stimulating general innate immunity. But the CEO of Pfizer thinks that it does, which is encouraging. I am also not sure whether RNA virus vaccines can have any effect on DNA viruses. Most vaccines do not give cross-immunity to other pathogens. I took the influenza vaccine almost every year but it didn't seem to help my POIS (or maybe the effect was small). But anything is possible.
  Thanks for sharing the paper on COVID immune suppression. That's a really good paper. Yes COVID-19 causes a suppression of innate (NK) and adaptive (T) cells that last even after the adaptive (B cell) immunity has removed the virus. Some scientist call this Post-acute COVID-19 Syndrome or post-COVID syndrome for short. I think that this is the same thing that happens with POIS except that POIS is caused by a different virus.
Some patients, that "recover" from COVID-19, experience POIS-like symptoms. It may give some insights into what is happening with POIS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu_Gs7N4lGk
  I think that once COVID-19 disables the NK, T and dendritic cells, the immune system looses the ability to control prior latent infections (other latent viruses and bacteria). And those latent infections can then reactivate to cause post-COVID symptoms. This is my guess. But in any case, I think we can learn a lot about POIS from the research on post-COVID syndrome.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 02:54:27 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Limejuice

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Re: Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy
« Reply #164 on: November 26, 2020, 11:48:10 AM »
Nanna, trying your protocol and the immuno complex is hitting hard only after two days with symptoms of headache, brain fog, and insomnia. Should I layoff until symptoms subside and restart then?