Transiently Induced Immune Deficiency and Therapy

[dk12]

I also tried this, but found consistent use of the stack to be unbearable. After a couple days in a new of taking it I felt extreme fatigue, brain fog and found that I was pushed into a depressive state. I continued to push through cycling on and off for 2 months and I have unfortunately found little improvement. Granted, I did not reach a point where taking the stack did not trigger symptoms. I also did not do the IV Vitamin C or consistently take copper but I was hesitant to add more given my reaction to the stack.

I do think the prepack seems to help, though. I also found that taking a small dose of AHHC seemed to give me an energy boost when in a POIS state.

[Mushnikk]

I also tried this, but found consistent use of the stack to be unbearable. After a couple days in a new of taking it I felt extreme fatigue, brain fog and found that I was pushed into a depressive state. I continued to push through cycling on and off for 2 months and I have unfortunately found little improvement. Granted, I did not reach a point where taking the stack did not trigger symptoms. I also did not do the IV Vitamin C or consistently take copper but I was hesitant to add more given my reaction to the stack.

I do think the prepack seems to help, though. I also found that taking a small dose of AHHC seemed to give me an energy boost when in a POIS state.

The IV Vitamin C is the main component of this proposed treatment, right? So that's missing.

If your response is that intense perhaps this points to a virus activation on your part explaining the fatigue?

[berlin1984]

Has anybody tried this and found that it made POIS worse?  I'd already been taking some of the supplements, but adding more vitamin C, doing a 5G IV drip, and adding those immuno-stimulants seems to have increased POIS duration by 1.5 days.

Anyone else have that experience?

My journey is from here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2683.msg34773#msg34773
I have the 3rd IV scheduled for monday.. what convinced me was https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2683.msg23776#msg23776 .. i have quite a weird general fatigue that comes and goes from time to time.(maybe corelated with what some call "non orgasm triggers of POIS state")

But I'm not exactly doing this stack, I do some other pathogen killing things additionally and instead taking less AHCC. I also take more Eccinacea, it seems to me a useful general herb like Aswagandha.
I also started St. John's Wort some days ago.
I'm also trying breathing exercises (breathe slower and only through nose, try to hold breath, breathe deeply with volume instead of often and shallow)
(yes, too many things at once, I'm not a good scientist..)

So far my general well being is improved, I also didn't get the POIS headaches anymore. But to be honest I'm avoiding orgasms from masturbation completely, only sex is allowed.

I also remember somewhere nanna1 wrote that temporarily feeling worse is to be expected.

[BuckarooBanzai88]

Thanks for sharing your experiences!  I decided to stop doing this because it was making POIS about as bad as it's ever been.  With Vitamin D and my diet changes I had it down to 1.5 days (1 with NSAID and 0 with prednisone).  After trying this, it was back up to 7 days of really intense symptoms.  It was definitely worth a try though given the possible benefits.

[berlin1984]

"a monocyte increase and an NK cell decrease were observed in the patient with POIS in comparison to the controls, with a reduction in total B cells and normal T cells count. Some studies have shown a decrease of NK cell percentage in association with a reduction of activity of these cells in peripheral blood of patients with depression. Other mental disorders such as mental stress, autism and obsessive-compulsive disorder have also been reported to present lower NK cell activity."[/i]
-De Amicis, K., et. al., "Immunophenotypical Characterization of a Brazilian POIS (Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome) Patient: Adding More Pieces to Puzzle" (2019)[/center]"

vs

Hey. Not sure if this has been posted. There is a study published on 15/06/20 by Japanese researchers. Conclusion is that NSAIDs are 'effective' in managing POIS.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cia2.12123
"The symptoms were always induced after masturbation. He had no partner, had never had sexual intercourse, and experienced premature ejaculation. In addition, he had suffered from moderate atopic dermatitis (AD)"

vs

"Natural killer cell dysregulation underlies atopic dermatitis"
"AD commonly presents in childhood and is known to be complicated by reduced antiviral skin immunity"
https://www.jimmunol.org/content/200/1_Supplement/45.37

vs

"Defective NK cell activity in a mouse model of eczema herpeticum"
"We infected AD-like skin lesions with HSV1 to induce severe skin lesions in a dermatitis-prone mouse strain of NC/Nga. "
"Eczematous mice exhibited lower NK cell activity, but similar cytotoxic T cell activity and humoral immune responses, compared with normal mice."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5276800/
(Don't google for pictures of eczema herpeticum if you're scared easily. As I understand they make an existing eczema worse by using virusses)

vs

  I also used to have eczema on the heel of my foot. This was not associated with orgasm or any related activity. Both the acne and eczema that I have dealt with since I was a teenager have cleared up. And I never get acne now, no matter what junk-food I eat . Side note: I did use tea tree oil on the eczema also.

[quikot]

Alright, so after reading nanna1's research and giving it some thought, I'm convinced that my POIS must have been activated by a viral infection from either HHV or HPV. I know that I have at least one of the viruses - HHV. And still very likely have HPV. Therefore, I could potentially benefit from this therapy. So 3 main reasons why I believe this could be it:

Weak Immunity:  My immunity is weak and compromised. My last 3 blood tests from May, June and July have shown low Neutrophyl count. This could indicate that there's an infection.

HPV: I had a genital wart caused by a HPV infection about 7 years ago and got treated with cryotheraphy. I believe this virus had not been cleared from my body and continues to evolve.
The evidence for this is a mild penile melanosis developed since about 4 years ago on glans of my penis. Possibly caused by HPV, which often is the virus that causes penile cancer. I've noticed that my penile melanosis gets darker and expands in POIS state. Even though all my STD/UTI tests have tested negative, my penis hurts and has inflammation after ejaculation and sometimes even hurts without ejaculation, POIS or arousal. I will give my melanosis tissue for a biopsy in near future.

HHV: I have recurring mouth cold sores. Actually had one last week and treated it with Zovirax.

==============

So I have bought literally everything from this stack and will arrange an IV therapy. I have a few questions and would really, really appreaciate some input.

1) How long should you be on this whole therapy treatment? Is 1 month long enough? Too long?

2) Must IV drip sessions be consecutive? 3 days in a row?

3) Does it have to be 5g of Vitamin C IV or can I choose a bigger dose?

4) 3 hours before Vitamic C IV, should I consume copper on empty stomach or with food?

5) Is Quercetin worth adding to this stack since it boosts immunity?

[Muon]

My last 3 blood tests from May, June and July have shown low Neutrophyl count.

You may post your results here:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.0

[quikot]

My last 3 blood tests from May, June and July have shown low Neutrophyl count.

You may post your results here:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.0

Ok sure. I'll share my results later when I'll find time to assemble it.

[berlin1984]

5) Is Quercetin worth adding to this stack since it boosts immunity?

No idea, but if you're looking for cheap things to add that don't seem to have side effects, I'd pick
* Lysine (more than 1.5g per day if I remember correctly)
* Monolaurine or just coconut oil/fat.

Both claim to be antiviral by inhibiting the replication. So you won't have an immediate effect, but it should build up over time by making the body create broken virusses(?).

[quikot]

5) Is Quercetin worth adding to this stack since it boosts immunity?

No idea, but if you're looking for cheap things to add that don't seem to have side effects, I'd pick
* Lysine (more than 1.5g per day if I remember correctly)
* Monolaurine or just coconut oil/fat.

Both claim to be antiviral by inhibiting the replication. So you won't have an immediate effect, but it should build up over time by making the body create broken virusses(?).

Interesting! Lysine seems effective against HHV-1, could work well when combined with anti-HPV properties of AHCC. I eat coconut oil everyday though so I'm getting plenty of monolaurin..

Btw berlin1984, I've read about your gingivitis problem. I used to have that too but after using an electric toothbrush, gengigel mouthwash, sensodyne pronamel, and floss everyday I have healed my gums completely. I also avoid sugar, which was major cause of my dental health problems.

[Muon]

Differential effects of testosterone on circulating neutrophils, monocytes, and platelets in men: Findings from two trials

"Conclusions

Testosterone administration in men differentially increases neutrophil and monocyte counts. These findings, together with its erythropoietic effects, suggest that testosterone promotes the differentiation of hematopoietic progenitors into the myeloid lineage. These findings have potential mechanistic, therapeutic, and safety implications."

[slon_ik]

Теория весьма интересная!

У меня есть несколько простых вопросов, которые, как мне кажется, не вписываются в теорию ))

1. Иммунный всплеск на эякуляцию является не самым сильным. К примеру, иммунный ответ на вирусную инфекцию будет больше. И тогда при вирусной инфекции должен быть туман в голове намного сильнее, чем от эякуляции. Но есть много свидетельств, что при вирусных инфекциях POIS наоборот проходит! Почему?

2. Основной симптом POIS это туман в голове. Почему недостаток иммунитета действует так избирательно?

Спасибо )


The theory is very interesting!

I have a few simple questions that don't seem to fit into theory))

1. The immune surge on ejaculation is not the strongest. For example, the immune response to a viral infection will be greater. And then with a viral infection there should be a fog in the head much stronger than from ejaculation. But there is a lot of evidence that in case of viral infections, POIS, on the contrary, disappears! Why?

2. The main symptom of POIS is fog in the head. Why is the lack of immunity so selective?

Thank )

[demografx]

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slon_ik, thank you for posting!

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Russian POISCenter.net + POISCenter.com = 2 brains better than 1?

CC: POIS Research Team, Shep, Anonymous Donor, Daveman

[nanna1]

1. The immune surge on ejaculation is not the strongest. For example, the immune response to a viral infection will be greater. And then with a viral infection there should be a fog in the head much stronger than from ejaculation. But there is a lot of evidence that in case of viral infections, POIS, on the contrary, disappears! Why?

2. The main symptom of POIS is fog in the head. Why is the lack of immunity so selective?

Hi slon_ik,

Thanks for the question
1. The answer to your question can be found here (Diseases associated with herpes virus infection). Many viral infections do not disappear, they remain latent and cause life-long disease.
  The increase in NK cell immune response to orgasm should not depend on what infections you have. It is a genetically encoded action of the immune system that prevents viral reactivation and spread. All people should have an immune response to sexual activity to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted disease (STD/STI) and guard sperm transit through the uterus. But some infections (virus/bacteria/fungi) try to prevent or evade this immune response.

2. The answer to your question can be found here (POIS as a location-specific herpes infection). Most herpes viral infections are local and isolated to a specific part of the body. For some people, HSV-1 causes cold-sores on there lips but no where else on their body. Herpes viruses, HPV, hepatitis viruses and many other viruses produce mostly local symptoms from local (isolated) infection.

I hope that helps. 

[berlin1984]

Note that neutrophils and NK cells work together to fight infection. When NK cells are suppressed during infection, this could cause neutrophils to be overun and depleted.

Dark Chocolate Intake Acutely Enhances Neutrophil Count in Peripheral Venous Blood
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5835384/
A significant increase of both WBC and neutrophils counts was observed 4 hours after dark chocolate intake, whereas the other parameters of WBC remained unmodified.

Some quotes from the forum, there are other effects at play too (polyphenol stuff, antioxidant, theobromine as caffeine, antiviral activity? etc..)

Dark Chocolate ( cacao 70% ) improve all POIS symptoms

This is very important to read all POIS suffered.

Here's my experienced with my weapons and POIS monster.
 The most effective weapons I have found out so far to kill POIS monster. Here's the list
...
. Dark chocolate: Help my cognitive functions

(3) Low dose caffeine
- Even though I'm highly sensitive to coffee, I still need low levels of caffeine to regulate my mental clarity for work.
- I've found that incrementally dosing on 70% dark chocolate works best. It's easy to monitor and carry around.
- (if interested, try 'Lindt Excellence' blocks. The one without milk. Ingredients are just cocoa mass, sugar, cocoa butter and vanilla);
- My dose range is about 10-15 grams of this brand's chocolate. However I suspect everyone's different. I've had mixed results with other formulas of Lindt and other brands. Decaffeinated coffee also works well but its harder to manage the dosage.

dark pure 70% chocolate the day before
intercourse with wife early Saturday morning

And happily -- chocolate (Theobroma cacao) has an extremely high antioxidant polyphenol content, and provides cardio-protection. Even small amounts of cocoa can reduce cholesterol in the blood, and can lower blood pressure. Dark chocolate is the most healthy (70%) and there are brands that contain chile, giving it a spicy edge. 

How could I have omitted the mention of chocolate?

[berlin1984]

Note that neutrophils and NK cells work together to fight infection. When NK cells are suppressed during infection, this could cause neutrophils to be overun and depleted.

Cat's claw (supplement from a tree, not a cat) sounds interesting too with regards to immune cells and maybe even antiviral.

I find only one useful mention in the forum:

My whole diet that 100% manages my POIS post.  I can pretty much vouch for it.  I also microdose turmeric, b-complex, and cats claw.  They help with inflammation and increase energy.

[an-y-more]

Dark chocolate works for me too for many years. I can eat small piece and then watch ongoing brain function boost and physical energy boost as time goes by. The only problems for me are heat in a face some time after (known MCAS symptom, but maybe there's something else) and unpleasant tension in the neck. But lately I've been on a lot of dark choclate almost daily. And one whole pack provides me with energy boost that allows me to stay up for 20-24 hours even on a zero or first pois days. Though next morning I'll be walking dead (before I start consuming choclate again)

[Muon]

Dark chocolate is rich in phenols. Hyperactivity can be a sign of phenol intolerance.

[an-y-more]

Dark chocolate is rich in phenols. Hyperactivity can be a sign of phenol intolerance.

Thats intersting. I managed to get one day without any problems after coffee(besides hyperacitivity one cause I still not shure what it is, and neck stifness.. but it was gone completely after antispasmodic)
Slept not really much and managed to keep my head vert this night so no brainfog, headaches or hearing problems appeared.
After chocolate head problems not that hard but keeping head awa from gettin horizontal definietly helps always. Especially in the moments when I become tired and frozen all of the sudden and lay to rest a bit.
When Is tarted to consume these amounts of choclate I was on some head bloodflow meds and during that time I could almost freely eat chcolate and even pizzas and other junk which affect my head really bad usually so bloodflow is a big problem in my case. Though phenol intolerance may affect vessels walls from what I read so whpo knows.

[Quantum]

I applaud the mods to move this post here
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2695.msg24788#msg24788 at the top of this topic here https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.0 and to stay there permanently with updates patterns.

It is not possible to move single posts or re-order them in a thread. 

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