Exercise-induced POIS-like symptoms

[demografx]

Many discussions in the past about nitric oxide and POIS.

•Put this in your google search box:
nitric oxide pois site://poiscenter.com

•and to go back further:
nitric oxide POIS site://thenakedscientists.com

[demografx]

I had good success with Levitra/nitric oxide but then it stopped working. Who knows why???

[romies]

Yes I think the C677T defect is the biggest factor in POIS for me because it impairs an enzyme that is incredibly important for methylation, if you look up methylation pathway it is usually in the center because many other processes in the pathway rely on it.  Proper methylation is crucial for us because it manages or contributes to detoxification, immune function, maintaining DNA, energy production, mood balancing and controlling inflammation. 

I think 23andme just came out with a $99 test, I would highly recommend ordering it.  Not only did it lead to me improving my methylation and helping my POIS significantly, but I also learned I can't tolerate sulfur, need to take high doses of vitamin D, and countless other interesting details I didn't even think a DNA test could tell me like what percent Neanderthal genes you have.  The data from livewello was just the population statistics and what individual genes made up a gene family, all of their data comes from dbSNP which is a very trustworthy source. 

It's almost impossible to analyze the data without a large number of genomes to compare.  After studies confirmed impaired methylation was present in CFS, the Klimas project at Nova Southeastern University was started and it aims to analyze the genetic data of 10,000 CFS patients in order capture genetic issues that increase the risk for getting CFS.  So for POIS we will probably never have a big enough data set to get reliable results unfortunately, but POIS and CFS share many characteristics it seems, and research for that seems to be moving very quickly so hopefully soon we will be able to test if POIS leads to a temporary CFS state and if it does test out treatment options being developed for CFS.

It looks like you are +/- on C677T. This condition can be corrected readily with Methylfolate + Methyl B12 supplements. And you can do a couple of blood homocysteine tests to titrate your dosage.

BTW, I believe as of 2017, the $99 23andme is the ancestry-only test, and does not have the SNP results for methylation pathways etc.

[romies]

I had good success with Levitra/nitric oxide but then it stopped working. Who knows why???

If you are taking Arginine, ornithine or citrulline supplement for nitric oxide, you would also need have sufficient NADH to generate NO.
And then you will need to have sufficiently low super-oxidant to prevent NO turning into ONOO (very bad). http://ajpcell.physiology.org/content/ajpcell/271/5/C1424.full.pdf

[15yrsAndCounting]

Can anyone tell which doctor to visit for Mast Cell activation?
Also any idea if blood platelet count goes down, if you decrease thyroid dosage?

[demografx]

15yrsAndCounting, welcome to the forum!

[Clues]

I also get POIS symptoms from exercise. Almost as bad as orgasm, depending on the workout. I suspect I have some sort of MCAD, and I'm experimenting with my diet and lifestyle based on that, with the goal of being able to work out again, because it really helps in other ways. Body feels less tense and I feel more upbeat overall during extended periods of working out regularly. But I always get symptoms the same day and the day after.

[demografx]

Whenever I ran “aerobically” (20 minutes, elevated heart rate), I would get exercise-induced depression. I married into an athletic family, so no one understood, but articles on the internet helped me greatly.

[demografx]

Very interesting to see that this is an “active” ( ) thread.

[Ricardo Brasil]

I also experience mild symptoms of POIS after exercise, difficulty concentrating, brain fog and a little dizzy. I always preferred to do any exercise at night and then take a shower and sleep, because studying or working after practicing physical exercises really doesn't work.
They say it is good to practice sport in the morning kkkk and I believe it is, but for me doing this is the same as missing the day ....
Today I am sedentary, I couldn't reconcile physical exercises with the math faculty, because I couldn't think straight, but I want to practice again soon, I just don't know if it will be possible ...

[Muon]

I also notice POIS symptoms after working out in the gym, but not as intense after orgasm.

Can anyone tell which doctor to visit for Mast Cell activation?

Why are you looking for one? These type of doctors are rare and have stacked agenda's.

[Aladin]

Sport can go both ways for me. In 80-90% of the cases, it will help me feel better. And then there are the exceptional cases where sport gives me -indeed- POIS-like symptoms.
Due to corona, i hadn't exercised for 3 month and started again 2 days ago. Result: terribly stiff muscles, exhaustion, emotional instability, ruminating. Probably, i overdid it and here i am....

I'm actually right now in one of those POIS-episodes and thanks to reading the forum, i realize the link.

[jdog78]

If I walk and do some light weights I'm fine however if I lift heavy weights I feel like have the flu almost. You bring up an interesting topic and didn't realize others also had this. If I play basketball and do some push ups and lighter weight type lifting I feel decent but once I go balls out in the gym I need much more time to recover and as noted feel flu like a run down. People who have autoimmune disorders report the same with going heavy with lifting or exerting themselves e.g. Lupus, RA and MS. I think this is another hint that POIS is an autoimmune disorder in my opinion. I'm glad you brought this up, I can totally relate. I tend to focus on walking and light lifting 5-6x per week vs balls out 3x a week. Of course everyone is different and their body reacts different. Keep fighting men and don't give up.

[Muon]

Mallory:

"I exercise frequently but get a similar headache only when I go running for some reason.. minus the flu symptoms though."

lovelife28:

"I also get the same kind of headaches after a high paced workout."

Effects of endurance exercise on serum concentration of calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP): a potential link between exercise intensity and headache

Preliminary Evidence of Increased Pain and Elevated Cytokines in Fibromyalgia Patients with Defective Growth Hormone Response to Exercise

[berlin1984]

     the supplements that benefits POIS also benefits exercise-induced malaise.

I just wanted to drop the term Post-exertional malaise (PEM) here since it's used in the CFS/ME scene.
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Post-exertional_malaise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-exertional_malaise

[Muon]

I'm really glad you brought this topic up Quantum, because it's made me read up on mast cells and exercise, and I think that the fact that neuropeptides released along with adrenaline (along with many other neurotransmitters) can activate mast cells is significant.

Adrenaline doesn't activate the mast cell but inhibits via beta 2 adrenergic receptor activation. It can be tested by using Pseudoephedrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine#Mechanism_of_action

In addition to that, perhaps exercise could do something to the vagal tone (someone should look it up). Doesn't heat induce acetylcholine release? Exercise could do something similar. Anyway I get the impression that the cardiovascular system doesn't respond properly to exercise.

Edit:
Ok here it is, I thought I had read it somewhere, page 499:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3140.msg32139#msg32139

"For example, during exercise there is a progressive decrease in PNS tone and a parallel increase in SNS tone. There are unique situations in which the autonomic response is characterized by either dual activation or dual inhibition. For example, in human adults, sexual arousal is characterized by a dual excitation."

The body might already be in a SNS dominant state, exercise could be seperating them even further apart. Perhaps a chronic dominant SNS state could increase adrenergic receptor density in general making you more sensitive to incremental increase in SNS tone.

Edit again:
PE may support the above statement:
"The present study found the balance between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic system was changed in favor of the sympathetic action in patients with lifelong PE. This imbalance might trigger lifelong PE."

"A converse viewpoint is that overactivation of a1-adrenoreceptors via the SNS might lead to PE"

Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction in Lifelong Premature Ejaculation: Analysis of Heart Rate Variability

[Unvers]

Maybe it has already been said, I have not read all the messages, the first thing that comes to mind that they have in common physical exercise and orgasm are endorphins, that POIS is a kind of endorphin withdrawal syndrome? I've always suspected it in my case ..

Obviously I speak only for a part of those who suffer from POIS, of those who have it mostly cognitive.

[Unvers]

Today I am in POIS and I tried to exercise, tired almost immediately, I let it go in order not to exacerbate fatigue, I am also a little in debt of sleep, maybe a walk is better.

[an-y-more]

Regards joint pain and tiredness:
When I had gut microflora dysbiosis - couldn't eat any fiber without visiting restroom for number 2 way too regulary (with severe body pain after) I couldn't even bring heavy bags from grocery without getting joint pain and extreme fatigue (especially in winter) first days in pois. Exercising would leave me exhausted and with joint pain when I tried. Niacin was the best way to manage body pain, black tea and warm shower were helpful as well but that all leaved me more physically weak (lowkey fleeting feeling when walk, overall not that nuch energy) Cold shower during joint/body pain made it worse.
So basically everything that dilates vessels was helpful. Things that do opposite (cold, cold shower) were harmful.

On the other hand when felt constipated and had really irregular stool my body worked pretty okay. Could walk for a long time. but head tension and brain fog were off the charts. Physical exercise: squatting, just hanging on Horizontal bar was giving me intense head tension and didn't improve my physicall well being at least.

So it seems like my gut work affects tension or bloodstream of my whole body and when it becomes too constricted I feel joint pain and tiredness when exercising. Could be cause thick blood.. I also drink lots of water and it may be helpful, I'm not sure.

If there someone who had post-exercise joint pain and fatigue completely altered at some point.. think about your gut changes at that period or anything else that colud affect vessels/tension in a long term? Maybe it's a reason for such sympthoms considering how many poisers experience problems with vessels.

[Muon]

Exercise, training, and the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis in men

"Abstract

According to the type and duration, physical exercise may influence positively and negatively the secretion of hormones related to the hypothalamic?pituitary?gonadal axis in males. Indeed, although acute exercise induces a rise in testosterone secretion, chronic, high-load/duration physical exercise reduces the activity of the hypothalamic?pituitary?gonadal axis. This different response of sexual hormones in males to physical exercise and training influences sexual and spermatogenetic functions that might be improved, maintained, or impaired."

Or upregulation of COX enzymes by adrenergic pathways?