Author Topic: Is POIS a version of CFS?  (Read 11402 times)

Cursed

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2021, 10:51:41 AM »

I think antibodies to adrenergic receptors is a very probable cause of POIS.


Wow.

Very strong statement!

I'm a layman, so take this with a huge grain of salt. I just think autoimmunity would explain why people find help with strategies that manipulate the gut (diet, probiotics, antibiotics, etc),  various supplementa, etc. Alternatively, there could be many other explanations, but autoimmunity, HPA axis dysfunction is where it is, IMO. This is pure speculation on my part.
My POIS disappeared during the duration of being sick with the cold in the 2020 February despite not abstaining during that time and the moment it healed and I trigerred the POIS it came back full with symptoms but when I did not have it I had even less brain fog and symptoms in general and felt better than I feel even on many weeks of abstinence in terms of cognitive clarity and such however due to the cold itself I did not feel that well physically however cognitively I had almost zero brain fog and this weird mental processing speed slowdown I seem to always have even when on a long streak of abstinence had fully disappeared while I was sick with that cold in the 2020 February

One more argument for POIS being related to CFS, because this is not uncommon in CFS community to have symptoms improve or disappear when sick. I've also had this experience. Some say it's because immune system shifts the focus away from something that's causing symptoms (maybe pathogen or autoimmunity) and directs it where ir is most needed, fighting the virus.

Journey

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2021, 11:49:04 AM »

I think antibodies to adrenergic receptors is a very probable cause of POIS.


Wow.

Very strong statement!

I'm a layman, so take this with a huge grain of salt. I just think autoimmunity would explain why people find help with strategies that manipulate the gut (diet, probiotics, antibiotics, etc),  various supplementa, etc. Alternatively, there could be many other explanations, but autoimmunity, HPA axis dysfunction is where it is, IMO. This is pure speculation on my part.
My POIS disappeared during the duration of being sick with the cold in the 2020 February despite not abstaining during that time and the moment it healed and I trigerred the POIS it came back full with symptoms but when I did not have it I had even less brain fog and symptoms in general and felt better than I feel even on many weeks of abstinence in terms of cognitive clarity and such however due to the cold itself I did not feel that well physically however cognitively I had almost zero brain fog and this weird mental processing speed slowdown I seem to always have even when on a long streak of abstinence had fully disappeared while I was sick with that cold in the 2020 February

One more argument for POIS being related to CFS, because this is not uncommon in CFS community to have symptoms improve or disappear when sick. I've also had this experience. Some say it's because immune system shifts the focus away from something that's causing symptoms (maybe pathogen or autoimmunity) and directs it where ir is most needed, fighting the virus.
I wonder what is the root cause of this immune engagement? John21 POIS disappeared for some months after taking antibiotics and then returned. That could mean perhaps there is some pathogen that is chronically in the organisms of those with those rare chronic multisymptoms disorders and they either are attacked directly and thus the inflammation formed affects other and nearby tissues as well or they mimick healthy tissue which then the immunity system interprets as the pathogen because of their similarities and therefore causes those symptoms. Therefore the question should be what is the root cause of those symptoms and what to do to permanently fix and cure it? If John21 had POIS disappear for some months after taking those antibiotics and probiotics and then it returned it could mean for some reason those potential possible pathogens tend to return therefore the question should be why they returned in John21 POIS case? And what to do to ensure the organism is permanently free from those underlying imbalances or pathogens that then cause those symptoms. It could besome other imbalance that makes it harder for the body to naturally fight against them or some foods or environmental factors might contain them and the POISers are more prone to having those pathogens accumulate or some genetical reasons could make it easier for those pathogens to accumulate

demografx

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2021, 09:27:36 PM »

I'm a layman, so take this with a huge grain of salt...


Cursed, everyone is a POIS layman, MD’s included, because no one knows what POIS is all about.

Therefore, as a POISer, I hereby classify you as an expert! ;D
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 09:29:52 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2021, 08:39:18 AM »
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 08:41:36 AM by Muon »

Cursed

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2021, 04:23:46 PM »

I think antibodies to adrenergic receptors is a very probable cause of POIS.


Wow.

Very strong statement!

I'm a layman, so take this with a huge grain of salt. I just think autoimmunity would explain why people find help with strategies that manipulate the gut (diet, probiotics, antibiotics, etc),  various supplementa, etc. Alternatively, there could be many other explanations, but autoimmunity, HPA axis dysfunction is where it is, IMO. This is pure speculation on my part.
My POIS disappeared during the duration of being sick with the cold in the 2020 February despite not abstaining during that time and the moment it healed and I trigerred the POIS it came back full with symptoms but when I did not have it I had even less brain fog and symptoms in general and felt better than I feel even on many weeks of abstinence in terms of cognitive clarity and such however due to the cold itself I did not feel that well physically however cognitively I had almost zero brain fog and this weird mental processing speed slowdown I seem to always have even when on a long streak of abstinence had fully disappeared while I was sick with that cold in the 2020 February

One more argument for POIS being related to CFS, because this is not uncommon in CFS community to have symptoms improve or disappear when sick. I've also had this experience. Some say it's because immune system shifts the focus away from something that's causing symptoms (maybe pathogen or autoimmunity) and directs it where ir is most needed, fighting the virus.
I wonder what is the root cause of this immune engagement? John21 POIS disappeared for some months after taking antibiotics and then returned. That could mean perhaps there is some pathogen that is chronically in the organisms of those with those rare chronic multisymptoms disorders and they either are attacked directly and thus the inflammation formed affects other and nearby tissues as well or they mimick healthy tissue which then the immunity system interprets as the pathogen because of their similarities and therefore causes those symptoms. Therefore the question should be what is the root cause of those symptoms and what to do to permanently fix and cure it? If John21 had POIS disappear for some months after taking those antibiotics and probiotics and then it returned it could mean for some reason those potential possible pathogens tend to return therefore the question should be why they returned in John21 POIS case? And what to do to ensure the organism is permanently free from those underlying imbalances or pathogens that then cause those symptoms. It could besome other imbalance that makes it harder for the body to naturally fight against them or some foods or environmental factors might contain them and the POISers are more prone to having those pathogens accumulate or some genetical reasons could make it easier for those pathogens to accumulate

Seems like my reply to this post disappeared? Well, anyway, I think this is something that you want to look at if you want to dig deeper:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30021103/

Re-framing the theory of autoimmunity in the era of the microbiome: persistent pathogens, autoantibodies, and molecular mimicry
Amy D Proal  1 , Trevor G Marshall  1

Abstract

The theory of autoimmunity was developed at a time when the human body was regarded as largely sterile. Antibodies in patients with chronic inflammatory disease could consequently not be tied to persistent human pathogens. The concept of the "autoantibody" was created to reconcile this phenomenon. Today, however, the discovery of the human microbiome has revolutionized our understanding of human biology. Humans are superorganisms that harbor trillions of persistent microbial cells. Indeed, vast human microbiomes have been detected in human tissue and blood. These microbial ecosystems harbor thousands of newly identified bacteria, viruses, and other microorganisms -- most of which can act as pathogens under conditions of immunosuppression. The theory of autoimmunity must be revised to account for the human microbiome. Here, we propose a model in which "autoantibodies" are created in response to chronic, persistent microbiome pathogens. The structural homology (molecular mimicry) between pathogen and host proteins can result in "collateral damage" to surrounding human tissue. This calls for a paradigm shift in autoimmune disease treatment. Immunosuppressive medications palliate inflammatory symptoms at the expense of microbiome health and balance. In contrast, treatments that support the immune system in autoimmune disease could allow patients to target pathogens at the root of the disease process.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 04:29:57 PM by Cursed »

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2021, 05:04:14 PM »
I have had CFS for 6 years and my wife just developed it too

Also my gf has terrible POIS too, and by terrible I mean really for like 2-3 days if she orgasms twice in a day...

These symptoms started for my guy when he was 15 years old. But I don?t know when these really started for me. My guy was the one who found that I also have this thing. Before, we thought only he has this shit. (We called it ?Over?). Then we started to notice my symptoms too. We did search internet and I found you tube video about POIS and then I saw this forum link in the comments section.

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2021, 07:44:41 AM »
Organic Acid Test (OAT) results – do we ALL show the Warburg effect?

Immune responses make use of glycolysis.  Pathogens can hijack host cell metabolism and may lead to the Warburg effect. Could some of these parameters be abnormal in POISers considering low BMI/energy that doesn't reflect their food intake?

Muon

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Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #83 on: February 24, 2021, 12:55:31 PM »
Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: The Human Herpesviruses Are Back!

Furthermore, it was demonstrated that EBV dUTPase is secreted in exosomes from chemically induced Raji cells at sufficient levels to induce NF-?B activation and cytokine secretion in hDCs and PBMCs through a TLR 2-dependent mechanism [72]. Exosomes are produced by numerous cell types, have been implicated in numerous diseases, including ME/CFS [84], and are capable of trafficking to various organs within the body, including the brain, where they function as intercellular messengers.

Virus changing exosome content?

Exosomes in human semen carry a distinctive repertoire of small non-coding RNAs with potential regulatory functions

Extracellular vesicles in human semen modulate antigen-presenting cell function and decrease downstream antiviral T cell responses



A downregulated DBH can be problematic when you need a burst of norepi during orgasm via DBH.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 01:05:30 PM by Muon »

Cursed

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #84 on: March 02, 2021, 06:03:35 PM »
Crossposting my own message from another thread, because I think it's important:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=555.msg39561#msg39561

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2021, 01:25:37 PM »
Neuroinflammation and Cytokines in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS): A Critical Review of Research Methods
Table 1: Brief review of brain magnetic resonance spectroscopy (MRS) studies in ME/CFS. Click on pic:
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 01:27:39 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #86 on: March 22, 2021, 04:32:20 PM »
Reduced Endothelial Function in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome–Results From Open-Label Cyclophosphamide Intervention Study

Muon's prediction for the future: Reduced endothelial function in Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 04:48:32 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2021, 03:42:30 PM »
RIP Dr. Jay A. Goldstein

"I was deeply saddened to learn that Dr. Jay Goldstein had passed away on March 4, 2021. Dr. Goldstein was a pioneer among ME/CFS researchers and clinicians. He rose to prominence in the 1990s through his clinical practice, and through the publication of several seminal works, chief among them: Betrayal by the Brain : The Neurologic Basis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia Syndrome, and Related Neural Network Disorders, Tuning the Brain : Principles and Practice of Neurosomatic Medicine, and Chronic Fatigue Syndromes : The Limbic Hypothesis. In addition to his books, Dr. Goldstein was also one of the editors, along with Dr. Byron Hyde, of The Clinical and Scientific Basis of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis-Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, a collection of papers on clinical practice and research that remains unsurpassed in both depth and scope.

Dr. Goldstein believed that ME/CFS was the result of an insult to the limbic system, located deep within the brain. The limbic system is involved with memory, emotion, and regulation of the autonomic nervous system. This last function is of critical importance to maintaining homeostasis in the body, as the autonomic nervous system regulates appetite, body temperature, blood pressure, blood sugar, sleep, wakefulness, heart rate, digestion - in short, nearly every physiological function necessary for maintaining life.

Dr. Goldstein's theory, as laid out in his book, Betrayal by the Brain, was that ME/CFS is essentially a communication problem between the limbic system and the rest of the nervous system. His "limbic hypothesis" essentially states that no matter what the underlying cause of ME/CFS, the result is an injury to the limbic system, which subsequently causes widespread neuroimmune dysfunction. He identified ME/CFS as a "neurosomatic" illness, that is, a disorder of central nervous system processing. Dr. Goldstein based his theory on what he knew of the brain, which was substantial, as well as what he had observed of his patients' reactions to various psychotropic medications. Recent studies have shown that in his approach Dr. Goldstein was  far ahead of his time.

Dr. Goldstein will be sorely missed, not just for his tremendous insights but for his compassion and commitment to his patients. There will never be another like him. RIP Dr. Jay A. Goldstein.
"

Edit: Send me a private message when you are interested in his book Tuning the Brain.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 04:13:58 PM by Muon »

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #89 on: April 01, 2021, 04:06:52 PM »
RIP if only there were more doctors out there like him...