Author Topic: Free Flow Discussion about POIS  (Read 579032 times)

Vincent M

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #660 on: February 01, 2013, 01:05:41 PM »
Hi All,

I asked a question the other day that's gone unanswered, and is un-related to donating -- perhaps I posted it in the wrong place.

So, here's the question --

What is the purpose of fenugreek for treating POIS symptoms?  (I'm not challenging -- only curious!) 


Yes sorry I should've told you I answered it in a thread we've made for fenugreek here http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=27.msg8576#msg8576

But the gist of my answer is that we don't know exactly how it works. I suspect it works directly on inflammation for me in a way that aspirin hasn't been able to, but it also seems to have some hormonal effect. There have been studies on its ability to help diabetes as well by lowering glucose levels and perhaps it could help us that way.
Taking ginger tea, no wheat, fenugreek+green tea/garlic, saw palmetto, niacin, boswellia, huperzine, B complex and nutmeg. See my treatment summary post for more info: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=81.msg3513#msg3513

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #661 on: February 01, 2013, 06:47:52 PM »

Some historical posts (since 2007) about fenugreek and POIS:

http://tinyurl.com/b435956
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Stef

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #662 on: February 02, 2013, 01:24:49 AM »
Thank you all for the information. Fenugreek is so interesting! 

After reading your replies, then looking at the older posts from the NSF forum that Demo supplied in that link, I did a PubMed search.

There's A LOT about breast feeding, which doesn't seem to have anything to do with POIS that i'm aware of!! But there have also many studies on the blood sugar-lowering effects of fenugreek, making it a potential treatment for type 2 diabetes -- but not necessarily having anything obvious to do with POIS either.

(I do wonder what the reason is for the weaker orgasms that Observer mentioned.)

Maybe most importantly as related to POIS, there are indications that it inhibits the production of certain inflammatory cytokines.  Here's a link to an abstract of a 2012 article by a group of pharmacologists from the School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kanazawa University, in Japan -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20979021.

(As an aside, we do need inflammatory cytokines -- they do serve a purpose. It's when they go into overdrive that they become a problem.)

The US is so far behind other countries in the study and understanding of herbs -- probably because these aren't considered "drugs" and therefore, not financially worthwhile for study.  There's no Big PHARMA funding for herbs in the US.

Vincent M -- it sounds like you got it right about the anti-inflammatory effect.

Some cautions about fenugreek (what would you expect from a nurse?!)  If you're allergic to chick peas, don't take fenugreek! (They are similar in chemistry.) And -- it can increase clotting time in some (meaning, it can interfere with the blood clotting process, possibly leading to bleeding episodes -- but this is very rare).

This is seriously interesting -- it gives yet another perspective on POIS -- and will help in locating even more researchers for the grant THAT YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE HAPPEN BEFORE THE END OF MARCH. :-)

Stef

Vincent M

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #663 on: February 02, 2013, 01:56:21 PM »

There's A LOT about breast feeding, which doesn't seem to have anything to do with POIS that i'm aware of!! But there have also many studies on the blood sugar-lowering effects of fenugreek, making it a potential treatment for type 2 diabetes -- but not necessarily having anything obvious to do with POIS either.

(I do wonder what the reason is for the weaker orgasms that Observer mentioned.)


I also experienced some of these weaker orgasms when I first started fenugreek(I even had a dry orgasm that was about 10% the pleasure and duration of a normal orgasm for me). The shorter the "o" was the less POIS symptoms I had. The way I see it this points to some hormonal effect.
Taking ginger tea, no wheat, fenugreek+green tea/garlic, saw palmetto, niacin, boswellia, huperzine, B complex and nutmeg. See my treatment summary post for more info: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=81.msg3513#msg3513

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #664 on: February 02, 2013, 02:04:21 PM »

This is seriously interesting -- it gives yet another perspective on POIS -- and will help in locating even more researchers for the grant THAT YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE HAPPEN BEFORE THE END OF MARCH. :-)

Stef


 :) :) :)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:52:39 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Daveman

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #665 on: February 02, 2013, 03:22:32 PM »
Two times now I have tried something and it seems to be effective, both times the same thing happened.

As you all know, niacin helps me a lot, but I still get joint and muscle swelling and soreness especially in the first days of POIS.

Like today. Last night was day "0". I think I waited a little long from the peak of the flush (about 1.5 hrs), and so POIS came through
a little more than usual. I slept poorly, and in the morning my back ached and muscles and joints were sore.

So I took a B Complex tablet nothing special, not a particularly high dose, just your garden variety B-Complex, and 1000mg Vitamin-C
In about 2 hrs my muscle and joint soreness went away. And I've been pretty good since then (12 hrs later).

My first day (like today) usually has a very light tinge of POIS in the background, but usually so little that mosst of the time I forget that I am in POIS.

So rather than take B-Complex before daily, I take one on day 1 and maybe another on day 2.

Sometimes I will take a B-Complex (just one per day) 3 days and 3 days before I plan to have sex. This somehow makes me "hornier" during the act
2 days later and gives me more stamina. However the strange thing is, if I take B-Complex every day for a week before sex, I have good stamina, but
my POIS is much worse, despite taking niacin.

So it's a balance. B-Complex 2 and three days before, niacin one hour before and B-Complex the day after, and perhaps the second day after.

For me a great combination, and has me all but POIS free.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

amijgoro

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #666 on: February 02, 2013, 06:20:21 PM »
We have struggled with this illness quite some time now and achieved a lot with the help of our amazing members.
The nord research is a big result of our combined effort in the battle against Pois.
Lets continue the fight to free ourselves and live up to our full potential.
I am volunteering to be this months sponsor. Every donation that comes in will be matched. Lets reach the 33,500 and get this research started!

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #667 on: February 02, 2013, 10:23:07 PM »



I am volunteering to be this month's sponsor.

Every donation that comes in will be matched. Lets reach the $33,500 and get this research started!


Thank you, amijgoro, for your great words about funding.

And your February, 2013 Sponsorship!


WE ALL THANK YOU, AMIJGORO!!! :) :) :)




« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:46:52 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #668 on: February 03, 2013, 01:52:50 AM »
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 03:20:54 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #670 on: February 03, 2013, 02:04:11 AM »


Cure POI$!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:07:48 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #671 on: February 03, 2013, 02:18:47 AM »
Thank you all for the information. Fenugreek is so interesting!  

After reading your replies, then looking at the older posts from the NSF forum that Demo supplied in that link, I did a PubMed search.

There's A LOT about breast feeding, which doesn't seem to have anything to do with POIS that i'm aware of!! But there have also many studies on the blood sugar-lowering effects of fenugreek, making it a potential treatment for type 2 diabetes -- but not necessarily having anything obvious to do with POIS either.

(I do wonder what the reason is for the weaker orgasms that Observer mentioned.)

Maybe most importantly as related to POIS, there are indications that it inhibits the production of certain inflammatory cytokines.  Here's a link to an abstract of a 2012 article by a group of pharmacologists from the School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kanazawa University, in Japan -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20979021.

(As an aside, we do need inflammatory cytokines -- they do serve a purpose. It's when they go into overdrive that they become a problem.)

The US is so far behind other countries in the study and understanding of herbs -- probably because these aren't considered "drugs" and therefore, not financially worthwhile for study.  There's no Big PHARMA funding for herbs in the US.

Vincent M -- it sounds like you got it right about the anti-inflammatory effect.

Some cautions about fenugreek (what would you expect from a nurse?!)  If you're allergic to chick peas, don't take fenugreek! (They are similar in chemistry.) And -- it can increase clotting time in some (meaning, it can interfere with the blood clotting process, possibly leading to bleeding episodes -- but this is very rare).

This is seriously interesting -- it gives yet another perspective on POIS -- and will help in locating even more researchers for the grant THAT YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE HAPPEN BEFORE THE END OF MARCH. :-)

Stef


I was pleasantly surprised that my local pharmacy's computer can measure the interaction effects between fenugreek and other prescription drugs. Maybe everyone else's pharmacy can do that as well, if there is interest in experimenting.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:20:28 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #672 on: February 03, 2013, 02:23:18 AM »

Please visit our NORD Funding
Countdown Timer

http://tinyurl.com/bkzdoch

As Daveman says, 2 months can FLY by.

60 52 51 49 46 days to go!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #673 on: February 03, 2013, 03:14:19 AM »
Two times now I have tried something and it seems to be effective, both times the same thing happened.

As you all know, niacin helps me a lot, but I still get joint and muscle swelling and soreness especially in the first days of POIS.

Like today. Last night was day "0". I think I waited a little long from the peak of the flush (about 1.5 hrs), and so POIS came through
a little more than usual. I slept poorly, and in the morning my back ached and muscles and joints were sore.

So I took a B Complex tablet nothing special, not a particularly high dose, just your garden variety B-Complex, and 1000mg Vitamin-C
In about 2 hrs my muscle and joint soreness went away. And I've been pretty good since then (12 hrs later).

My first day (like today) usually has a very light tinge of POIS in the background, but usually so little that mosst of the time I forget that I am in POIS.

So rather than take B-Complex before daily, I take one on day 1 and maybe another on day 2.

Sometimes I will take a B-Complex (just one per day) 3 days and 3 days before I plan to have sex. This somehow makes me "hornier" during the act
2 days later and gives me more stamina. However the strange thing is, if I take B-Complex every day for a week before sex, I have good stamina, but
my POIS is much worse, despite taking niacin.

So it's a balance. B-Complex 2 and three days before, niacin one hour before and B-Complex the day after, and perhaps the second day after.

For me a great combination, and has me all but POIS free.



Your success is an inspiration. Even though your POIS treatment and mine are different, and don't work for everyone, there is comfort in seeing a physiological treatment that proves "something biological" is going on with us and...it's NOT "all in our heads"...as too many doctors wrongly believe.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 03:17:38 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

mat780

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #674 on: February 03, 2013, 08:37:03 AM »
I've just donated $100.

Amijgoro, you are AWESOME! Thank you very much for your sponsorship!!!

People, let's do it!!! Together we can!!!


« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 09:27:37 AM by demografx »