POIS is gone!

[drop247]

I started taking Azithromycin today (I know it is a long shot, but I?m at the point where it?s promising enough to give a try), 5 day duration.   Will update in a couple weeks if it helped at all.

Any update CharlesB?

[CharlesB]

I started taking Azithromycin today (I know it is a long shot, but I?m at the point where it?s promising enough to give a try), 5 day duration.   Will update in a couple weeks if it helped at all.

Any update CharlesB?

Unfortunately I don?t think the Azithromycin did much for me, I still have very strong symptoms even on arousal.  Would have posted sooner but wanted to give it a full couple of weeks.

I did get a stool test back after I posted about starting Azithromycin, which stated that there was a large amount of fungus/yeast that was microscopically visible in my stool - much more than the baseline expectation for yeast in a stool sample - but it was unable to be cultured potentially because the yeast didn?t survive the GI tract (other stool tests have said no yeast detectable, but those previous ones only checked for culture, not under a microscope).

Not sure what the implications of the large amount of dead yeast in my stool (maybe it was from small intestine... SIFO?), other than I will now start an antifungal regimen and hope it somehow helps.

[John21]

Well folks, it didn't last. I had the same mental distress that has plagued me post-O again.   

But I hope this experience can shed some light on whatever is going on. I am still considering that the digestive system plays a part in it.  It has now been about 5 months since my illness/fever/diarrhea/antibiotics and over that time I have noticed that my feces has been changing. Kinda gross to talk about, but for the first few months there wasn't much smell. During this time I did not have the POIS symptoms. Lately I have noticed it becoming more harsh smelling, not sure how to describe it exactly. And yes, now again I have POIS symptoms. Somehow this all makes sense, but I don't understand it yet.

[Mushnikk]

Perhaps some dysbiosis/SIBO coming back? This is frequent with that type of disorder. Perhaps investigate that further? What have to so far specifically done for your gut (diet, ...)?

[Charles_b]

Oh man, Sorry to hear that John.  I still think it is gut related (especially since while on Pepto Bismol for two weeks I had zero symptoms, and you mentioned something similar.)

I?m doing an experiment by taking some Bismuth Subgallate, to see if I have the same disappearance of symptoms... to me, that would rule out the salicylate (aspirin) in Pepto Bismol, and most likely mean that the Bismuth action in the stomach is the main actor.  If that works it at least hints to me that it can be fixed by some means of altering the gut (not sure what yet though).

Will update once that experiment is complete.

[John21]

Perhaps some dysbiosis/SIBO coming back? This is frequent with that type of disorder. Perhaps investigate that further? What have to so far specifically done for your gut (diet, ...)?

After the illness I tried to rebuild my system by eating yogurt/kefir/sauerkraut for a couple of weeks. After that I just ate my normal diet - low fat, low meat, high vegetable & grains. I have read that the digestive system normally takes a long time after such an illness to get back to "normal".  The dysbiosis idea is interesting. I have been eating lots of sweet fruits, plus honey and maple sugar on some foods. Maybe I will do a low sugar diet trial.

[Journey]

Well folks, it didn't last. I had the same mental distress that has plagued me post-O again.   

But I hope this experience can shed some light on whatever is going on. I am still considering that the digestive system plays a part in it.  It has now been about 5 months since my illness/fever/diarrhea/antibiotics and over that time I have noticed that my feces has been changing. Kinda gross to talk about, but for the first few months there wasn't much smell. During this time I did not have the POIS symptoms. Lately I have noticed it becoming more harsh smelling, not sure how to describe it exactly. And yes, now again I have POIS symptoms. Somehow this all makes sense, but I don't understand it yet.

So you did not have POIS some months after taking antibiotics and probiotics and then once your stool quality worsened your POIS symptoms started returning? This matches the theory that POIS could be some form of microbial overgrowth that then causes all of those symptoms. But the question then is what is causing this overgrowth that it tends to return even when taken under control? Are there any genetical factors that make it easier for it to spread or maybe some natural mechanism that naturally keeps it in check is impaired or some food or environmental factor that does not affect others that much for POISers worsens this microbial overgrowth?

[John21]

So you did not have POIS some months after taking antibiotics and probiotics and then once your stool quality worsened your POIS symptoms started returning? This matches the theory that POIS could be some form of microbial overgrowth that then causes all of those symptoms. But the question then is what is causing this overgrowth that it tends to return even when taken under control? Are there any genetical factors that make it easier for it to spread or maybe some natural mechanism that naturally keeps it in check is impaired or some food or environmental factor that does not affect others that much for POISers worsens this microbial overgrowth?

I like the theory.  Maybe some people are just more sensitive to imbalances in the micro flora, just as some are more sensitive to allergens. The body is incredibly complex with many interacting systems. Maybe sexual hormones interact with gut bacteria in ways we don't understand.

[John21]

Previously I had success with Pepto Bismol and before that with taurine. We can imagine that PB can influence the gut, but what about taurine? I just did a google search and it seems that it does indeed influence the gut!  First 3 hits: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27026373/#:~:text=In%20conclusion%2C%20taurine%20could%20regulate,SCFA%20and%20reducing%20LPS%20concentration.

In conclusion, taurine could regulate the gut micro-ecology, which might be of benefit to health by inhibiting the growth of harmful bacteria,

And from [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5507302/][/url]

Accumulating evidence suggests that dietary taurine (2-aminoethanesulfonic acid) exerts beneficial anti-inflammatory effects in the large intestine

Also, https://hackyourgut.com/2017/01/02/10-reasons-why-you-need-taurine-for-amazing-gut-health/

Let?s start off by telling you what it does:

Enhances gastric acid and enzyme production
Plays a central role in the regulation of inflammation throughout the body
Regulates the microbiome
Modulates motility
Can kick the crap out of H. Pylori?
And mop up the damage it causes
Improves fat digestion and fat soluble vitamin absorption
And so much more?

[drop247]

I just want to say thanks for coming back and updating even though it wasn't successful. I suspect a lot of people claim cured and never come back to say that their POIS has returned. This is incredibly harmful to our efforts. When a scientist runs an experiment, there are all sorts of results that could happen. Some results are positive and some are negative, but all of them are data points. Each result is a piece of data that can ultimately lead to an answer.

Oh man, Sorry to hear that John.  I still think it is gut related (especially since while on Pepto Bismol for two weeks I had zero symptoms, and you mentioned something similar.)

I?m doing an experiment by taking some Bismuth Subgallate, to see if I have the same disappearance of symptoms... to me, that would rule out the salicylate (aspirin) in Pepto Bismol, and most likely mean that the Bismuth action in the stomach is the main actor.  If that works it at least hints to me that it can be fixed by some means of altering the gut (not sure what yet though).

Will update once that experiment is complete.

Sounds like a great experiment Charles_b

[demografx]

I am still considering that the digestive system plays a part in [POIS]. 

You’re in good company. World-famous orgasm researcher who studied the posts on this forum, agreed with you.

That led him to believe that the vagus nerve might be implicated in POIS.

[Clues]

You’re in good company. World-famous orgasm researcher who studied the posts on this forum, agreed with you.

That led him to believe that the vagus nerve might be implicated in POIS.

Interesting! Did he publish anything?

[demografx]

Clues, no he didn’t. Long, complex story. We switched to having our disorder studied by the current POIS Research team..
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3006.0

[Iwillbeatthis]

Well folks, it didn't last. I had the same mental distress that has plagued me post-O again.   

But I hope this experience can shed some light on whatever is going on. I am still considering that the digestive system plays a part in it.  It has now been about 5 months since my illness/fever/diarrhea/antibiotics and over that time I have noticed that my feces has been changing. Kinda gross to talk about, but for the first few months there wasn't much smell. During this time I did not have the POIS symptoms. Lately I have noticed it becoming more harsh smelling, not sure how to describe it exactly. And yes, now again I have POIS symptoms. Somehow this all makes sense, but I don't understand it yet.

How about do another round of the antibiotics maybe you need a longer course? Spore biotics could be helpful in combination they are different to normal probiotics and actually recolonise the gut bacteria and work as well as some antibiotics do.

[Muon]

Unfortunately POIS is no indication for FMT. Perhaps there are commercial labs out there providing this but I doubt it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/fecal-microbe-transplants-help-cancer-patients-respond-to-immunotherapy-and-shrink-tumors.82904/

Multiple FMT threads can be found on poiscenter (which could be merged).

[Mushnikk]

Unfortunately POIS is no indication for FMT. Perhaps there are commercial labs out there providing this but I doubt it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/fecal-microbe-transplants-help-cancer-patients-respond-to-immunotherapy-and-shrink-tumors.82904/

Multiple FMT threads can be found on poiscenter (which could be merged).

As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.

[Muon]

As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.

That's my observation as well. Study from Natale et al. showed that 3,3% have IBS under comorbidities. When I'm polling that number is much higher although sample size is small. There are a few case reports containing patients with IBS.

Edit: I believe Vandemolen chased for FMT but was denied due to the lack of an indication.

[Mushnikk]

As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.

That's my observation as well. Study from Natale et al. showed that 3,3% have IBS under comorbidities. When I'm polling that number is much higher although sample size is small. There are a few case reports containing patients with IBS.

Edit: I believe Vandemolen chased for FMT but was denied due to the lack of an indication.

And there are not private clinics yet where you could pay for a FMT yourself? Actually just found a clinic in Leipzig, Germany via Google.

[devastated]

For what is worth, I also suffer from IBS. I believe the vagus nerve is definitely involved in this mechanism.

As I perceived it many POISers also have IBS: perhaps at some point it becomes available for them through insurance.

[drop247]

Oh man, Sorry to hear that John.  I still think it is gut related (especially since while on Pepto Bismol for two weeks I had zero symptoms, and you mentioned something similar.)

I?m doing an experiment by taking some Bismuth Subgallate, to see if I have the same disappearance of symptoms... to me, that would rule out the salicylate (aspirin) in Pepto Bismol, and most likely mean that the Bismuth action in the stomach is the main actor.  If that works it at least hints to me that it can be fixed by some means of altering the gut (not sure what yet though).

Will update once that experiment is complete.

Any update on this? I'm still getting significant benefit from Pepto-bismol while in a POIS state. I'm awaiting a breath test for SIBO to see if I have a problem with hydrogen sulfide.