Author Topic: Exercise intolerance - please help  (Read 1111 times)

Investigator

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2020, 07:09:29 AM »
If I do moderate exercise (such as a long walk), this is good for me. However, a more intense cardio workout can in itself cause POIS. What about muscle training?

I wanted to train for strength and exercise with dumbbells at home. I started super basic (due to lack of shape) and kept it basic for a while. It was going well, until one day I felt encouraged that I got stronger and decided to push myself to more reps than usual. That was yesterday. You can guess: strong POIS symptoms today. Brain fog, dizziness, fatigue. I really associate it with the increased workout load and not with the last ejaculation (the last one was 5 days ago, I had mild POIS the day after and then recovered, so right now I don't consider myself under the influence of that ejaculation from 5 days ago. POIS today is surely due to the dumbbells exercises from yesterday). 

Possible hypothesis, suggested by an andrologist I've spoken with some time ago: maybe a drop in free testosterone. This would unite the two types of cases of POIS: ejaculation or more serious exercise. I will check my free testosterone next time I wake up in serious POIS. 

By the way, my POIS follows a definite day-cycle pattern. I WAKE UP with it. Always, the onset of symptoms takes place when I wake up, after a long sleep. It never starts randomly during the day. Then by the evening, symptoms are better. I am back thinking of something hormonal, since hormones follow daily cycles. Maybe free testosterone (or something else) goes low, and then with activity during the day, it accumulates again?

When my POIS started, I was in amazing shape, too. I would often swim 4km a day. Now I cannot imagine anything like that.

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
    • MCAD Thread

Quantum

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2020, 11:09:26 AM »
Hi Iron Feather,
Sorry for joining the conversation late, I have been quite busy because of the pandemic ( I work in the health care system).

I brought the subject of exercise induced POIS-like symptoms on the forum about 4 years ago ( here at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2373.msg19865#msg19865 - I saw Muon have quoted posts in this thread, earlier).  In my case, symptoms from exercise are less severe than those from POIS, but nevertheless, they can be a hindrance for normal activity and work, especially the day after.   I used to take both a pre-pack and a post-pack, when doing sport.  With time, I saw that limiting the time I exercise is very important, and keeping the intensity at moderate.  For example, the more often I get out of breath during sport, the more I will have symptoms the next day.   My sports are badminton and tennis, and I always play double ( simple is too demanding for me), and I play in very casual league, I cannot play with athletic and competitive persons.  Also, the more I sweat during sport, the more I am subject to have severe symptoms afterward.

From these observations, I have learned to:
  • never exercise for more than 90 minutes, and 1 hour is the best
  • never do sports more than 2 times a week, with at least 1 day off between, and of course, 1 day off after ejaculation ( considering I have taken my pre-pack, of course, because than 2 to 3 days off would be needed)
  • A lot of electrolytes intake before, during and after sport.  I take slightly salted water during sport ( 2 ml of salt in 600ml of water, approx.), I take 400ml of organic coconut water just after playing ( a great source of potassium and magnesium - it is like a natural "gatorade", but without the coloring and artificial flavors...), I eat a banana just after, too, for the potassium, and on top of that, I take 8 to 16 mEq of potassium in supplement form.
  • the morning after, if I feel I have no energy and have to go to work or else, I take a complex-B with vitamin C, and some other supplements that gives me energy, like astaxanthin or green tea extract or else.
These help in lowering the potential fatigue and low blood pressure and sluggishness, the next day. 

You say that you feel nervousness/trembling after exercise.  In my case, it is less intense, but just after sport, I do not feel the fatigue yet - it is like I am on a "sympathetic system high", from the adrenaline/noradrenaline production form sport.  It takes a few hours for this effect to reside, and then, the fatigue and low blood pressure sink in, and the parasympathetic/vagus system seems to take the upper hand.

Whatever really happens, it feels like there is an over-reaction followed by another over-reaction in the opposite direction.

Maybe it is a deficiency in COMT, the enzyme responsible for eliminating the noradrenaline/adrenaline surplus after intense exercise ?   hard to say.  One thing is sure, I cannot do as much sports as I would like, and my recovery time is much longer than it should normally be.

Another of my hypothesis comes from the fact that my recovery is longer if I have been out of breath more often during exercise.  It lead me to study the Cori Cycle.  In summary, when we need more oxygen in less time, our body goes anaerobic.  This saves time, but produces lactic acid, and this transfer part of the metabolic burden to the liver  ( https://web.archive.org/web/20080423042037/http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/615coricycle.html ) I have a very slow, sluggish, liver.  So, I suppose that after sport, the additionnal detox my liver has to take on is responsible, at least in part, for my fatigue and symptoms.  Anyway, taking great care of my liver helped me both for exercise and for POIS.  You can see more details in this specific "liver detox" thread, at  https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2431.msg20521#msg20521 .


About you reaction to chlorine, I do not think it could be an allergy, it could be something like a high sensitivity to chlorine, and what you get could be a kind of chlorine poisoning.  You could try using another disinfectant for a week or two, and see if things improve.   Chlorine is highly toxic for humans.  For surfaces, you could use isopropyl alcohol, and there are a lot of other chlorine-free disinfectants available too on the market.   Also, be sure not to use chlorine in your laundry. And, even if you did not go in a chlorinated swimming pool, you could see if some of the suggestions in the following article could be safe and useful for you:  https://thedetoxspecialist.com/blog/detox-your-body-from-chlorine-after-swim/ .

Until you find something that really helps you improve your exercise tolerance, I guess you will not have the choice to know and respect your new limits. 
Take care of yourself, as much as possible !
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 11:16:46 AM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2020, 06:11:47 PM »
And, even if you did not go in a chlorinated swimming pool...

My uncle could not enter chlorinated swimming pools as a kid. He developed a rash all over his body.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 06:14:03 PM by Muon »

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2020, 01:41:08 PM »
Fibromyalgia syndrome: a pain modulation disorder related to altered limbic function?

"A 30 mg nimodipine capsule usually works in about 45 min, often producing relaxation, increased energy, a decrease in tender point sensitivity, improved exercise tolerance and enhanced mental clarity."

mike_sweden

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2021, 10:43:19 AM »
when you exercise, try to breath through mouth and not nose, it makes a lot of a difference for me

i must remember myself to breath through mouth and its annoying, but it helps a lot

it should of course not be like that but please give it a try

my nose is clogged and i think it strains my body significantly

takedrugstoletgo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2021, 07:31:21 AM »
I have no advice but i have the same problem with exercise intolerance. Usually intense exercise triggers POIS for me and i feel extremely tired for days after exercising with tachycardia & flu like symptoms. It sounds like PEM (post exertional malaise) which is also common in CFS, dysautonomia etc.

Aladin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2021, 08:20:43 AM »
I have the same experience, but mainly when I start sporting after a while not having done much or after overdoing it. I think it must have to do with an inflammatory response that triggers POIS...
Generally, sport helps me to feel good.



Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2021, 05:27:20 PM »
Reduced tolerance of exercise in fibromyalgia may be a consequence of impaired microcirculation initiated by deficient action of nitric oxide

"The cycle is firstly initiated decrease of production of nitric oxide in the endothelial level by some trigger factors."

Exercise and the Nitric Oxide Vasodilator System

The tachycardia seems to indicate higher sympathetic activity. There could be something wrong with adrenergic or nitrergic tone. VEGF/histamine or other inflammatory substances could lead to vasodilation, the body could counter this by increasing sympathetic tone. The first paper talks about the reverse, as in reduction of the latter.

Quantum talks about a "sympathetic system high"...idk, I had those as well  in the past and it's different. It lacks some sort of response in tone.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 05:49:14 PM by Muon »

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2021, 04:22:42 PM »
Exercise-->Unknown source (Mast cells can release this)--> ^Mitochondrial DNA-->Microglia--->^IL-1b

Exosome-associated Mitochondrial DNA is Elevated in Patients with ME/CFS and Stimulates Human Cultured Microglia to Secrete IL-1b
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 05:23:12 PM by Muon »

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2021, 09:26:12 AM »
Exercise-associated ROS (Reactive Oxygen species) production?

Does the Bleach trigger indicate that the body got problems with detoxification and thus having trouble with clearing exercise-induced ROS? Or cytokine ratios might be off, exercise affects these ratios.

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3721.0
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 09:55:51 AM by Muon »

Muon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2104
    • MCAD Thread
Re: Exercise intolerance - please help
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2021, 04:00:32 PM »