Poll

Are you susceptible to stress?

Yes but only in POIS
1 (2.8%)
Yes both in and out of POIS on an equal footing
3 (8.3%)
Yes both in and out of POIS but more so during POIS
28 (77.8%)
No
3 (8.3%)
I don't know dude
1 (2.8%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: Stress Susceptibility  (Read 1457 times)

Muon

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Stress Susceptibility
« on: November 13, 2019, 12:58:04 PM »
Welcome to Muon's polls 4 fun.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 08:39:14 AM by Muon »

Nas

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Re: Poll: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 02:27:10 PM »
I said no mostly because I feel outside of POIS I'm a very chill guy. And in POIS I'm dead baisically.

Muon

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Re: Poll: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2019, 04:22:22 PM »
Very interesting paper, I do recognize many effects this paper describes in my POIS (click on download full-text pdf at the right side):

Vagal Tone: A Physiological Marker of Stress Vulnerability

Withdrawal effects which some POIS papers describe might be withdrawal of vagal tone.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 04:28:27 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Poll: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 08:11:09 AM »
So if we assume that stress vulnerability/susceptibility is a marker of vagal tone and people having a higher susceptibility out of POIS could mean that their vagal tone is out of normal equilibrium. If they are even more vulnerable to stress inside POIS could mean that they are shifting their vagal tone even more out of equilibrium. Sudden recovery from POIS symptoms is basically a reverse of vagal tone towards the out-of-POIS non-equilibrium value. 

Ejaculation itself is induced by the SNS which could mean we are dealing with a sympathetic state. Some people mentioned that strong orgasm could ease their POIS symptoms a little bit. Orgasm itself might act as a stress reliever, activating the PSNS.

Graphical example where the only axis, the horizontal axis, depicts vagal tone (N= normal state):

-------N------(1)----------------------(2)-----

Out of POIS vagal tone is in an abnormal state (1). POIS pushes it from (1) to (2). This transition is basically the build up of POIS symptoms. Recovery from POIS symptoms could be a reverse transition from (2) to (1). The position of (1) and (2) might be variable as well depending on some unknown factors. The distance between  (1) and (2) or between N and (1) might represent symptomatology and duration as well from person to person.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 09:00:36 AM by Muon »

Nas

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Re: Poll: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2019, 08:45:51 AM »
Ejaculation itself is induced by the SNS which could mean we are dealing with a sympathetic state. Some people mentioned that strong orgasm could ease their POIS symptoms a little bit. Orgasm itself might act as a stress reliever, activating the PSNS.
I speak personally of course.
But I wouldn't say orgasm relieves POIS symptoms, that would be an oxymoron, rather with increased libido and perhaps after watching porn you can not de-stimulate yourself; as I am noticing that there is a great deal of withdrawal issues if I do not orgasm and fully ejaculate during sex. And that's where orgasm could be a stress reliever.
However stronger orgasms also mean longer POIS recovery phase, noted by how less time is needed to recover after a NE as opposed to masturbation. Masturbation alone also produces weaker POIS than porn masturbation.

Muon

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Re: Poll: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2019, 09:27:55 AM »
See it as (2) comes closer towards (1) what orgasm does. The transition from (2) to (1) might be de-stimulation in conjunction with recovery but this is a spontaneous process. Then there is another factor I haven't taken into account and that is the amount of fluid that is being released which I think contributes to a worsening of symptoms in some. So you will have multiple factors that are driving the net rate of vagal tone change.

Some people state that, and from my own experience, when you already in a full POIS state (2) and ejaculate/orgasm again it tend to reset the dynamics and the full pois state will become worse. So what might happen is that when you start with (2) and orgasm, it will move towards a new state (3) and after some time it will reach a worsened state than you were already in like (4).

----N---(1)---(3)------(2)------(4).

1st orgasm: (1)--->(2)
2nd orgasm: (2)---->(3)----->(4)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 09:37:50 AM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2020, 01:23:50 PM »
Or a trigger of mast cell activation. POIS might lower mast cell stress trigger thresholds while POIS itself may be a mast cell activation trigger.


Rish

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Re: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2020, 08:54:56 AM »
I totally agree with NAS

Muon

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Re: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2020, 03:52:32 PM »
https://youtu.be/37GtfXOP8dw?t=765

Dr. Theoharides:

"And then what happens is some of the molecules that we don't commonly discuss that are secreted from the mast cells act back on the mast cells. For instance, Corticotropin-releasing hormone is the main hormone released under stress from the hypothalamus in the brain. Yet, we published that human mast cells release more CRH than even the brain. And what happens is we also published that the mast cells have high affinity, very strong receptors for CRH. So if CRH is released after the mast cells have actually been activated, it will be released it will act back on the mast cells. So what happens is the mast cell grows even more receptors for CRH. So the mast cells now are much more susceptible to stress"

"And in fact, we publish papers where we measured CRH the stress hormone in the blood with patients to whom were given some decongestant State-Trait Anxiety Inventory, that within 34 questions are so gives you an idea how stressed individuals are. And CRH was very high in the blood and it was a very strong correlation with anxiety. So we know that. Therefore, any type of stress by definition is likely to stimulate the mast cells directly or make them more responsive either to new triggers or whatever triggers a patient might have had to begin with."

"We published a paper a long time ago that stress meaning CRH we add CRH to human mast cells they become much more responsive to Mercury, for instance, okay. And this is an area that just not being discussed, that the mast cells must have some threshold that is being reset. Because I have so many patients who basically say, "Something happened, and all of a sudden I'm allergic or I respond to everything"

Reminds me of some members who had stress prior to their POIS like Animus and suddenly develop POIS.

So if you look at the poll results POIS may trigger mast cells ---> release CRH ---> act back on itself (autocrine) ---> MCs grow more CRH receptors on itself thus making them more susceptible to stress during POIS.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 04:07:00 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2020, 06:15:14 AM »
Poll result is extremely one-sided. Since stress can worsen IBS I'm not surprised many POISers have IBS as shown in the list of conditions poll:

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3188.msg34966#msg34966

Stress ---> NGF increase ---> increasing nerve fibers in gut mucosa leading to IBS? Elevated NGF levels are seen in AD patients as well. Some POISers in literature seem to have AD.

"Besides classical stress-related neurohormones like the players of the HPA axis - corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH), adrenocorticotropic hormone, prolactin and glucocorticoids - the neurotrophin nerve growth factor (NGF) is now recognized as a crucial mediator of stress responses [12-14]."

Table 1: From the Brain-Skin Connection: The Neuroendocrine-Immune Misalliance of Stress and Itch

Observer

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Re: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2020, 09:29:28 AM »
Stress susceptibility definitely higher in POIS situations, not an important factor out-of-POIS

Hopeoneday

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Re: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2020, 06:45:40 PM »
IBS affects between 25 and 45 million people in the United States. About 2 in 3 IBS sufferers are female.Nov 24, 2016
Dr-pois.


Muon

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Re: Stress Susceptibility
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2020, 07:54:53 AM »
Might Patients with the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Have Latent Tetany of Magnesium Deficiency

"stress hormones cause Mg loss, and low Mg levels increase secretion of catecholamines"

"Paradoxically, low levels of Mg intensify the secretion of the catecholamines, thus increasing the risk of adverse effects of stress"

"In addition, Mg deficiency increases production of substance P which is found in central nervous system neurons."

Substance P ---> increases CRH receptor 1 expression on mast cells. Ref

Orgasm/arousal increases catecholamines, might lead to some Mg loss increasing substance P release further growing more CRH receptors resulting in increased susceptibility of stress and change of mast cell phenotype.

Lower seminal plasma magnesium is seen in premature ejaculation:
https://bjui-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06320.x

Autocrine triggers:

Ref

Substance P Stimulates Cyclooxygenase-2 and Prostaglandin E2 Expression through JAK-STAT Activation in Human Colonic Epithelial Cells
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 10:58:31 AM by Muon »