Mast Cell Activation Syndrome

[Muon]

This drug is for treatment of Fibromyalgia. I can't help but notice the similarities between Fibromyalgia symptoms and POIS. I wonder if we are suffering from a similar or even the same ailment.

Mast Cells, Neuroinflammation and Pain in Fibromyalgia Syndrome

"Increased levels of the pro-inflammatory chemokine IL-8 (CXCL8) have been reported in the serum and CSF in patients with FMS"

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg32239#msg32239

It was quite a hot day when it was measured. Combine it with the previous post, it could drop due to orgasm only for the short term by rise in (nor)epi: Specificity of the neuroendocrine response to orgasm during sexual arousal in men.

Then there could be negative ejaculatory effects from MC activation due to interaction between urogenital MCs and potential triggers in seminal fluid doing other things.

Bluesbrother's TNF - alpha going down as well post-orgasm from 32.6 pg/ml to normal range (reference range <12.0 pg/ml).

Anti-inflammatory effect of β2-agonists: Inhibition of TNF-α release from human mast cells

Off-topic: #males vs #females in POIS regarding sex hormones and Th1/Th2 function. TESTOSTERONE AND ESTROGEN DIFFERENTLY EFFECT TH1 AND TH2 CYTOKINE RELEASE FOLLOWING TRAUMA-HAEMORRHAGE

[Muon]

The difference in absorption between unformulated Quercetin and Quercetin Phytosome is huge:



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6418071/

https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/quercetin-phytosome

[Muon]

Mallory:

"I am so glad to have found this... .trust me you are not the only woman with this problem!  I am 27 and have been experiencing the very same problem for the last few years.  During and immediately after orgasm, from intercourse or masturbation, I get  body and joint aches, neck stiffness, throbbing headache and nausea. This also happens when I perform oral sex on my husband, that does not result in an orgasm on my end.   It's the worst for several hours but the flu like symptoms will last for days. I have been gluten and dairy free for 4 years now, so it isn't allergies.  I have recently been diagnosed with fibromyalgia  and a tentative  MS dx, but still need a spinal tap.  Do you have any other illness, nerve pain, or odd symptoms..... do you get the same feeling with intense exercise?  I exercise frequently but get a similar headache only when I go running for some reason.. minus the flu symptoms though.  I have a normal body weight and BMI, and have normal blood pressure and blood work.  My doc has be taking 400 mg of riboflavin daily, which is apparently for migraines, although I never really get headaches at any other time"

Oral sex: Non-IgE mediated activation of mucosal mast cells?
Fibromyalgia: Often comorbid with MCAD
Multisystem symptoms and odd symptoms induced by triggers: Typical MCAD
Exercise: potential mast cell trigger

Many women have CFS on the TNS forum which is also often seen comorbid with MCAD.

[drop247]

Muon do you take daily quercetin?

[Muon]

Muon do you take daily quercetin?

No, I do not take it, was thinking about pumping Luteolin into my system but may put that on hold. Had some hope doctors would prescribe me some mast cell stabilizers last year to save money, like cromolyn, but to no avail. Right now I'm thinking about saving the money for a spine MRI scan instead of spending it to supplements. Not entirely sure where to go from here. 

[hurray]

Interesting that she mentions fibromyalgia. A drug specifically designed to help fibromyaglia sufferers has helped me to get rid of my POIS.

Milnacipran increases bioavailability of norepinephrine in the brain which can inhibit mast cells.

The mast cell can be manipulated by giving them neurohormonal triggers (Ref). One may drive the MCs away from a stimulatory state towards a more calmer/inhibitory state by shifting the 'balance' of the parameters below, that is, increasing parameters with a downward arrow next to them and/or decrease parameters that have an upward arrow next to them.

That's a good theory, and could be the correct one. Although it does lead me to wonder why milnacipran worked, but the various other NRIs I have tried did not? Theoretically they should all have increased the bioavailability of norepinephrine.

[Muon]

That's a good theory, and could be the correct one. Although it does lead me to wonder why milnacipran worked, but the various other NRIs I have tried did not? Theoretically they should all have increased the bioavailability of norepinephrine.

That's the part I don't get. It must have additional properties then, like these:
Anti-inflammatory and anti-hyperalgesic effects of milnacipran in inflamed rats: involvement of myeloperoxidase activity, cytokines and oxidative/nitrosative stress

Now some of these cytokines are elevated during brain inflammation leading to brain fog. If other SNRIs don't work then it may have nothing to do with the reuptake of serotonin or norepi. You might just be suppressing pro-inflammatory cytokines inside your brain reducing inflammation and thus reversing brain fog. Some of these cytokines are elevated in Fibro:

Fibromyalgia and cytokines

If mast cells were the culprit then the other SNRI's should affect the AB2R as well unless this med acts on different receptors. With other words the source of cytokines might be something else. Perhaps microglia.

[berlin1984]

That's a good theory, and could be the correct one. Although it does lead me to wonder why milnacipran worked, but the various other NRIs I have tried did not? Theoretically they should all have increased the bioavailability of norepinephrine.

My take:

...
HOWEVER, since I buy into the theory that POIS is virus-caused, maybe the main reason people on the forum have success with anti depressants is because of the effect on some viruses?
(Of course, certain effects on serotonine might also help with the general POIS associated feelings)
...

(Clic the date to expand to full post)

[hurray]

That's a good theory, and could be the correct one. Although it does lead me to wonder why milnacipran worked, but the various other NRIs I have tried did not? Theoretically they should all have increased the bioavailability of norepinephrine.

My take:

...
HOWEVER, since I buy into the theory that POIS is virus-caused, maybe the main reason people on the forum have success with anti depressants is because of the effect on some viruses?
(Of course, certain effects on serotonine might also help with the general POIS associated feelings)
...

(Clic the date to expand to full post)

It's an interesting possibility. It doesn't feel quite right in my case - I have taken several different kinds of anti-depressants in the last 10 years (SSRIs and SNRIs). 1 of them consistently eliminates my brain fog, all the rest of them did absolutely nothing for my brain fog

Most of them did have the side-effect of making me feel more comfortable about my POIS, but that doesn't help when you're trying to hold down a job that involves talking to people

[hurray]

That's a good theory, and could be the correct one. Although it does lead me to wonder why milnacipran worked, but the various other NRIs I have tried did not? Theoretically they should all have increased the bioavailability of norepinephrine.

That's the part I don't get. It must have additional properties then, like these:
Anti-inflammatory and anti-hyperalgesic effects of milnacipran in inflamed rats: involvement of myeloperoxidase activity, cytokines and oxidative/nitrosative stress

Now some of these cytokines are elevated during brain inflammation leading to brain fog. If other SNRIs don't work then it may have nothing to do with the reuptake of serotonin or norepi. You might just be suppressing pro-inflammatory cytokines inside your brain reducing inflammation and thus reversing brain fog. Some of these cytokines are elevated in Fibro:

Fibromyalgia and cytokines

If mast cells were the culprit then the other SNRI's should affect the AB2R as well unless this med acts on different receptors. With other words the source of cytokines might be something else. Perhaps microglia.

You give some good reasons as to why milnacipran could be considered to fit within the MCAS theory of POIS. A combination of theory and experimentation could be what we need to beat POIS 

[Iwillbeatthis]

Need some advice guys
I am planning to purchase either Neuro Protek or Histaquel, was just wondering if NeuroProtek contains quercetin phytosome or if it only has quercitin.
Histaquel has double the amount but serving size is two capusles, and its hard to compare the amounts in both products.

Histaquel has no rutin either but does have quercetin phytosome:

https://www.researchednutritionals.com/product/histaquel/?doing_wp_cron=1595866058.4130389690399169921875

https://www.amazon.com/Algonot-NeuroProtek-1-Bottle/dp/B0045JB858

Thanks

[Muon]

Neuroprotek doesn't contain Quercetin phytosome but Quercetin lipsome. Absorption from best to worst: Quercetin Phytosome > Quercetin liposome > Quercetin (it could be liposome or just powder, they never mention this on the supplement facts). I can't compare them because HistaQuel doesn't state the amount per ingredient.

[Muon]

Wasn't there someone who used Manuka honey for POIS? Quality seems to matter:

Medical-grade Manuka honey inhibits mast cell degranulation by downregulating protein kinase-B (Akt) phosphorylation: Potential role as intravesical agent in interstitial cystitis/bladder pain syndrome

Pseudoephedrine alleviates atopic dermatitis-like inflammatory responses in vivo and in vitro

Adding these to the MCAD thread under potential treatment.

[Iwillbeatthis]

Update I have been using histaquel for over two weeks now and haven't seen any difference, for me personally I have doubts now that my issues are mast cell related.

I think Nanna's immune deficiency theory is whats going wrong with me. I have started amitriptyline as of two days ago, I have tried it in the past at a tiny dose (1/4 of 10mg) as advised by my doctor and combined it with piracetam and alpha gpc (I think this is also what caused my severe reactions to showers when i stopped). The trouble was I was still experiencing immune and infectious symptoms back then so I stopped the amitriptyline.

Now I have cleared the infectious symptoms mainly I am trying it again at the full dose of 10mg, as I still have adrenal issues eg: reactions to showers. In a organic acids test it said I had a high HVA/VMA ratio which meant my body was having difficulty converting dopamine into noradrenaline. I have tried co factors for noradrenaline like vitamin c and copper but they aren't strong enough. This also explains why I react badly to bupropion a dopamine antagonist and n acetyl tyrosine.

The test recommends droxidopa - Droxidopa is a synthetic amino acid precursor which acts as a prodrug to the neurotransmitter norepinephrine. Unlike norepinephrine, droxidopa is capable of crossing the protective blood–brain barrier. However I am unable to get this in the Uk as its not licensed here or on any online eu pharmacys.

[Vandemolen]

My excellent doctor found a POIS study using Cromolyn on Pubmed. He said it was only 4 patients and the drug helped only half of them. He prescribed Nalcrom to me to try for a month. I had to have the pharmacy order it because it's not commonly used in Canada. I'll have it in the next day or two to try out and I'll report back. It's very expensive too but luckily my insurance covered it. A 4 week supply was over $400.

My POIS doctor gave me Nalcrom for two months. I hope it will help.

Nalcrom did not help me.

[Muon]

This guy went to Mayoclinic but didn't test for MCAS? What a missed opportunity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/ihh66g/do_you_think_people_on_nofap_actually_have_pois/

[Iwillbeatthis]

Finished the whole bottle of Histaquel now and it hasn't helped me.

[Muon]

"Combination of triggers is more important than individual ones as they can lower the stimulation threshold of mast cells and ‘prime’ them for additional triggers." Ref

Lower activation threshold due to decreased expression/function of inhibitory molecules/pathways.
Intracellular
PTEN
Chondroitin sulfate
Sergylin
Spermine/spermidine
TGF beta
Extracellular
Deflisinc
IL-10
IL-37
IL-38
TGF beta

[Muon]

Covid-19 Hyperinflammation and Post-Covid-19 Illness May Be Rooted in Mast Cell Activation Syndrome

[Muon]

While I like flavonoids, but they yet have to eradicate my 3-4 warts (on foot sole).  I think they are due to HPV.  Any method to get permanently get rid of HPV?

I just saw a otolaryngologist (ear, nose and throat doctor) about a growth on the uvula in my throat. He said that the growth was a benign papilloma (wart) and that it was probably caused by viral infection of the uvula. No test were done, but the otolaryngologist seemed confident that the growth was caused by human papillomavirus (HPV). I did not suggest any cause, he came up with this diagnosis on his own after examination of my uvula.

More: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2301.msg34026#msg34026

Finally I took Diazepam (Valium) the day after O, while in POIS, and it completely removed my brain fog and anxiety.

Mast cells express benzo receptors: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3318920/table/T1/

Some subtypes of adenosine receptors have affinity for benzodiazepines if I'm not mistaken (I could be wrong about that).