Author Topic: Is POIS a version of CFS?  (Read 17252 times)

Hopeoneday

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2020, 01:21:07 PM »
All explained mepedia:
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Myalgic_encephalomyelitis
Interesting there seems to be alot of data showing that ME/CFS/POIS could have actual physical reasons for them how do you think what is the very root cause that started the rest of the dysfunction cascade in those disorders?

My personl opinion is toxin-hiden infection-imune(MCAS)-mitohondria...

See here https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_features_of_chronic_fatigue_syndrome
So, you can see from here how mitohondria affect inate imune system.

Second, many people do not understand that the first response our body mounts against a viral, bacterial, or any kind of infection is metabolic. Yes, our chemistry is our first line of defense. Our chemistry reflects our instantaneous state of health. Innate immunity is coordinated by mitochondria and is an essential first step in developing adaptive immunity to any infectious agent. Without innate immunity there can be no antibodies and no NK cell activation, no mast cell activation, and no T cell mediated immunity.

And you can se here and i bolive this to that ours bodies "shot down"
to protect him self, mitochondra(when sense danger).

Naviaux believes the mitochondria are able to sense every kind of danger – from pathogens to pH changes to toxic elements from pesticides, heavy metals, etc. to inflammation. They sense trouble in the form of an infection when they detect a drop in voltage caused by the diversion of electrons (NADH / NADPH) to make viral components or respond to a broad variety of toxins.


Dr-pois.

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2020, 01:32:38 PM »
Second, many people do not understand that the first response our body mounts against a viral, bacterial, or any kind of infection is metabolic. Yes, our chemistry is our first line of defense. Our chemistry reflects our instantaneous state of health. Innate immunity is coordinated...

The first line of innate immune defense response are the defensins in your mucosa. There is actually one POISer with elevated fecal hBD2. I haven't seen more people who have done this test. https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3188.msg32995#msg32995

He also had low T and urinary tract infection I believe. White stuff in his urine-->defensins, hBD2?

Expression of Antimicrobial Defensins in the Male Reproductive Tract of Rats, Mice, and Humans

Toll-Like Receptor 4 in Rat Prostate: Modulation by Testosterone and Acute Bacterial Infection in Epithelial and Stromal Cells

Androgenic regulation of beta-defensins in the mouse epididymis

TRT ---> changing defensin profile? Level of hBD2 in urine or in seminal fluid?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 02:12:17 PM by Muon »

Investigator

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2020, 02:31:52 PM »
In CFS, is there a phase with complete recovery, during which the patient feels perfectly healthy? If yes, then sure, I would vote that POIS is a type of CFS, with specific trigger.

Yesterday and the day before, I was feeling great and strong. So I pushed myself on physical exercise yesterday (cardio). Only to activate my POIS and to get the brain fog and usual fatigue today.

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2020, 02:52:37 PM »
In CFS, is there a phase with complete recovery, during which the patient feels perfectly healthy? If yes, then sure, I would vote that POIS is a type of CFS, with specific trigger.

Yesterday and the day before, I was feeling great and strong. So I pushed myself on physical exercise yesterday (cardio). Only to activate my POIS and to get the brain fog and usual fatigue today.

Outside of triggers? Not completely from what I have read. They often have a baseline of symptoms when avoiding PEM triggers. What you are describing regarding physical exercise is what they call post-exertional malaise (PEM), often activated 24h after a trigger. People contacted me on the CFS forum telling me that they think POIS is some sort of an extreme PEM trigger related to orgasm/ejaculation. POIS, CFS, FMS, MCAS, POTS could be some kind of overlap syndromes, maybe related to brain regions. In many POISers POIS symptoms peak ~24h post O as well. Dr. Goldstein could be right, in that, POIS and CFS are related to eachother somehow.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 02:56:32 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2020, 05:39:49 PM »
From the phoenix rising forum today; Members only thread so can't post a link. I also will not post the username:

Thread title: Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum got me well in 6 months after 8 years of illness

I had been sick for 8 years and no one could get me well. However, I saw Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum who specializes in chronic fatigue and he gave me 36 things to take and got me well in 6 months. He is now getting my sister in law well after other doctors could not help her. I highly recommend seeing him. He has around a 93% success rate and specializes in those that other doctors can’t treat. I had an antibiotic resistant bacterial infection you pick up from hospitals among other things wrong with me and in 3 months, I was much better and in 6 months I was perfectly well. He is worth seeing if you have tried everything else and it has failed.

Similar to Goldstein's approach? Anyway I will follow up on this.

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2020, 01:31:19 PM »
From the CFS forum:

"Fecal microbiome transplant (FMT) looks to be a promising procedure that can help in a lot of cases for people colonised with antibiotic resistant bacteria. One small study suggests it can help with bloodstream infections too."
https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-04/ddw-fti042920.php

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452231720300026
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6667716/
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2019.01704/full

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2020, 12:18:17 PM »
mTor Inhibitor Rapamune Helps 5 ME/CFS Patients in Dallas

mTOR mutations?

"Adenosine blocks IL2. Book

Caffeine acts by directly blocking Adenosine.

Caffeine raises IL2... ?
"

I wonder how adenosine and mTOR inhibtors (rapamycin) affect POISers. If low Tregs are involved in POIS you want to boost IL-2 though. It's nanna1's strategy as well, if I'm not mistaken, to boost IL-2.

Activation of mTOR makes mast cells more responsive btw (in a bad way).
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 12:32:14 PM by Muon »

Hopeoneday

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2020, 03:24:16 PM »


Put compromised imunity(lack of inate etc...) in this cycles,
put toxic heawy metals, pesticides from foods, lack of detox fases,
liver etc..guts problems...
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 03:29:37 PM by Hopeoneday »
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Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2020, 08:56:52 PM »
Input: my Immune profile from IMD Berlin

Results of the German Cell Trend laboratory for POTS

There are some similarities in parameters that I share with Mitoman. Overlap syndromes = overlap of parameters? He went to the same lab btw.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 10:15:18 PM by Muon »



Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2021, 10:34:13 AM »

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2021, 01:16:51 PM »
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/you-probably-have-an-autoimmune-disease.82395/page-5#post-2316670

Alpha-1 Adrenergic receptor (a1AR) autoantibody at #1. What about POISers? And what about autoantibodies against opioid receptors?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 01:57:40 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2021, 05:29:02 PM »
For the latest posts on the Phoenix Rising forum: New Posts
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:06:55 PM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2021, 11:34:20 PM »

Hopeoneday

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2021, 02:54:20 PM »
Increased neutrophil apoptosis in chronic fatigue syndrome


Background/Aims: Many patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) have symptoms that are consistent with an underlying viral or TOXIC illness. Because increased neutrophil apoptosis occurs in patients with infection, this study examined whether this phenomenon also occurs in patients with CFS.

https://jcp.bmj.com/content/57/8/891.short
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Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2021, 04:19:17 PM »
Exercise-->Unknown source (Mast cells can release this)--> ^Mitochondrial DNA-->Microglia--->^IL-1b

Exosome-associated Mitochondrial DNA is Elevated in Patients with ME/CFS and Stimulates Human Cultured Microglia to Secrete IL-1b

Mitochondrial DNA has been found elevated in Autism.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 05:22:39 PM by Muon »


Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2021, 11:52:52 AM »
Although Goldstein knew the conditions were related somehow more than 25 years ago, I am just starting to see greater interest from some POISERs and CFSers on looking at what light one condition might share on the other.
Quote from: lovelife28
I saw that someone mentioned that this started when they got CFS and that is exactly what happend to me. When I was 25 I got MONO and that turned to CFS so they say anyway I was bedridden for two years, I'm now 29 and almost back to my old self but this POIS has been going on for two years. I never had the orgasm problems before getting ill so it must be linked.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=14697.msg344849#msg344849

Muon

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Re: Is POIS a version of CFS?
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2021, 01:24:15 PM »