Animus Solution

[omen]

Bitu,
I'm sorry if I came off sounding maybe arrogantly. I can understand if you're angry. It's a very sensitive topic. I don't always know how to present my views in the most understanding or unoffensive way. But like nordnurse said, I usually try to preface it with some kind of disclaimer. I hope that's enough, and I don't come on too strong with my views. Perhaps my situation does produce more heat than light because of it's controversial nature. I'm sorry about that. I'd like to participate in the process here, and I hope my controversial procedure won't prevent that. Thank you to the many people who have supported me here.
...
ps. I do think science will eventually find a non-surgical solution to POIS.

It's controversial, but I can't help but admire your determination. That must have been an incredibly difficult decision for you, and I'm glad that you're not suffering as much any more.

hi animus,
                         I didnt mean to hurt anyone thru my post..nor did i try to restrict your views...maybe i dont know how to express it correctly...even i am a sufferer and i know how helpless i feel when i am passing thru POIS...i am sorry brother...

[Willem]

Group hug. 

Finding solutions involves taking risks and trying new things.  Animus, we all respect you for what you did and for adding another bread crumb along the path to finding a solution.  We also appreciate you hanging in there with a bunch of poisers even after resolving your own issues. 

[omen]

hi friends,
i am off pois since the last 2 days,but i have got pain in my left testicle.it had happened many times before and i am not sure how many days it will last,but i have noticed it happens if i have multi orgasms maybe in a couple of days..if i have an O after a gap of maybe 10-15 days or more then this pain does not come.that means the orgasm should be full load..even a pain which exists,does go away then..but if i have these frequent ones like i had in this last week,then my left testis pains...

Hi bitu,
So you're saying if you have multiple orgasms the testicle pain is more severe. I can understand that. I also had that problem too. It feels tender, painful and very sensitive. There are definitely a few of us with this problem.
It could be that the testicles are undergoing a kind of trauma due to multiple ejaculations.
I checked online and found some brief therapies for it, which I've also tried. I found the support and elevation helps.

(quoted from emedicine health)
Trauma: After careful evaluation, if no serious underlying testicular injury have been identified, most cases of testicular trauma can be managed and treated at home. Treatment consists of the following measures:

    pain medications, including anti-inflammatory agents;

    scrotal support and elevation;

    ice packs; and

    rest.

More severe cases of testicular trauma involve testicular rupture, blunt trauma with an associated hematocele (a collection of blood) and penetrating traumatic injuries requiring surgical intervention.

hi animus,
                         i was suffering from this pain in my left testis since almost 2 months and i was avoiding it but yesterday i visited a urologist who examined me,he started pressing the area around my testis with his fingers and there was no pain the n he squeezed my left testis and the pain i usually have got elevated then he even squuezed the other testis but there was no pain..he told there is an infection in my testis(parasites) and he has given me a course of medicines for 3 weeks and asked me to get blood,urine and sonography reports done...its just been a day i have started the medicines the prescription has anti biotic a pain killer and a 3 week course of hetrazan 100 which kills the parasites maybe...i have not had the pain killers cause i wanna know is the drug really making a difference...and atlast i asked the doc about POIS but he was not aware and he told me that i was the first patient he has met who has this POIS symtoms...so i didnt talk much about it...

hi bitu,
I hope your infection goes away. Good job on getting it checked out by the urologist.
Keep a record of your test results! And let us know how it goes.

hi animus,
                         i had been to the urologist again for a follow up...this time with my blood report,urine report,and ultrasonography of kidney,urethra,bladder and ultrasonography of scortal.....blood report normal...urine normal....KUB sonography normal....and scortal sonography shows epidymis normal and i have mild varicocele...the doctor saw my reports and changed his opinion from EPIDIDYMITIS to VARICOCELE.....he told me it was something not at all serious and i should not be worried now...i felt a lot better now knowing i dont have those parasites now.....
                         after that i asked the DOC again about POIS and i he said he has seen lots of patients coming to him for problems they are facing to HAVE sex like erection problems...but he said you are the first one whose facing problems AFTER HAVING sex....he said people ususally dont wanna know what side effects they can have after sex but they just come to me with erection problems...i told him what all problems i face when i am in POIS....like brain fog,loss of decision making confidence..flu like symtoms.....i even told him about dr waldinger what all he is doing for us POIS ers and even about NORD...he was amused listening to me....then he asked me again what is it  called and he wrote POIS somewhere in his diary and told me he will definately study about it the next time....he told me to visit a psychatrist in that same hospital...which i dont feel necessary cause i am sure even he would be new to POIS...anyways feeling better i dont have epididymitis infection and about the varicocele,i think i have to statrt exercising and reduce my weight which should help..cause i am a little overweight with a sedentary life...

[Animus]

Group hug.  

Finding solutions involves taking risks and trying new things.  Animus, we all respect you for what you did and for adding another bread crumb along the path to finding a solution.  We also appreciate you hanging in there with a bunch of poisers even after resolving your own issues.  

thanks, Willem!!
wow, there's a lot of exciting things going on with XN and Niacin, I've been observing...

[jivetalk]

Animus,

I must also say that I have the utmost respect for you, taking the steps that you did - resolving your issues - and still sticking around to help others! Yes - I am VERY excited about XN/Niacin too - Not sure if it's the Vasolidation of Vesels, or Histamine Release as to why it works -  but for now, I'm glad it is working!

Bitu8489,

If it was me - I would find another Doctor. This one seems to NOT even really be listening, but has already made some pre-conceived notions about parasites and now sending you to a Psychologist?!?! Was he not listening when you told him about your symptoms and it is a RECOGNISED DISORDER  - Instead he's getting your mental state checked out.... Unfortunately - We have heard this story all too often.

[Habibou]

To see a psychiatrist does not necessary means he thought he was crazy, but more to help him through this challenge of life until he finds a medical/scientific solution... after, we don't know how the doctor said it since we were not there !

[jivetalk]

To see a psychiatrist does not necessary means he thought he was crazy, but more to help him through this challenge of life until he finds a medical/scientific solution... after, we don't know how the doctor said it since we were not there !

Habibou, you are right. I may have jumped the gun a little bit - I guess I am just fed up with reading about doctors who don't really listen or just think POIS is a psychological thing.
My Reading of what Bitu wrote, was that the doctor sent him to a Pschologist for POIS. If this is the case then........I would find another doctor.

[Habibou]

Totally agree ! If he meant that to cure POIS, then the "doctor" is just unqualified to be a professional !

[Starsky]

Hi,

I have a few questions that I've always wondered about.

1) It is my understanding that castration greatly reduces desire to have sex. I've always wondered how Animus managed to be castrated AND keep his sex drive. I understand that by stopping semen production he could still have his sex drive, but how can he still have it after being castrated?

Yes it can kill your sex drive but if you are in testosterone replacement therapy you will mantain high libido.

2) He said that by stopping sperm production it helped reduce his POIS. My question is why is that? For semen, I can understand, but how are sperm (the little tiny things swimming around) really related to POIS? Is it possible that not only can the body be stressed out by lost semen, but also by producing sperm? Maybe I'm missing something on how sperm and semen are related, if at all.

We dont understand it so far. There are two theories: 1. Autoimmune-allergy theory  2. Semen refractory theory which led Animus to his operation.

3) This is related to question 1. If someone just had their seminal vesicles removed and left the testicles, would their desire to have sex be affected at all, or is libido pretty much just related to the testicles and not at all the seminal vesicles (which only are responsible for producing semen)?

Yes, it will not affect your sex life.

[Prancer]

Great! Thank you, that helps me a lot. For the second (2) question though, what I was really wondering was exactly how or if sperm and semen are related to each other (the chemical similarity between them). Assuming the allergy theory is correct, why would the body be allergic to both semen (the vehicle for the sperm to survive) and sperm (the reproductive cells)?

Or for the regeneration/refractory theory, the same question applies (how come both and not one or the other). My guess is somehow they must be chemically related since he reported improvement from stopping sperm production then semen.

I remember Animus saying he wasn't sure if one could leave the testicles and still achieve the same results. I would hope that by simply removing the seminal vesicles one could stop POIS (or at least most of it). That way one wouldn't have to deal with the castration issue, which I think concerns people thinking about this operation more.

[Daveman]

First we would have to assume that the allergy theory is right.

But IF it were, we are still in the dark. We are not sure really if it is semen or sperm which causes the problem. Dr. Waldinger says it's the sperm. Other doctors have suggested problems with certain proteins in the semen. But, nobody really knows. All pretty much speculation.

If it is regeneration/refactory, it's more complex, and it becomes involved with the whole reproduction cycle. Hormones, pituitary gland, neurotransmitters and a whole very complex chain.

Animus tried removing things in parts. It wasn't until just about everything was removed that he finally got relief. My guess is that his relief didn't come until he finally got to the point where testosterone replacement was necessary.

[sameer7777]

Hi I am not sure about the allergy theory but I get all the symptoms of Pois even I don't ejaculate but less intence if I indulge in foreplay or bit of excitement I get Pois ?

[Animus]

First we would have to assume that the allergy theory is right.

But IF it were, we are still in the dark. We are not sure really if it is semen or sperm which causes the problem. Dr. Waldinger says it's the sperm. Other doctors have suggested problems with certain proteins in the semen. But, nobody really knows. All pretty much speculation.

If it is regeneration/refactory, it's more complex, and it becomes involved with the whole reproduction cycle. Hormones, pituitary gland, neurotransmitters and a whole very complex chain.

Animus tried removing things in parts. It wasn't until just about everything was removed that he finally got relief. My guess is that his relief didn't come until he finally got to the point where testosterone replacement was necessary.

Hey Daveman,
Actually, Testosterone replacement was one of the first things I tried...  I didn't get relief until I had dry ejaculation, and very minimal semen production.

[Animus]

Hi,

I have a few questions that I've always wondered about.

1) It is my understanding that castration greatly reduces desire to have sex. I've always wondered how Animus managed to be castrated AND keep his sex drive. I understand that by stopping semen production he could still have his sex drive, but how can he still have it after being castrated?

Yes it can kill your sex drive but if you are in testosterone replacement therapy you will mantain high libido.

2) He said that by stopping sperm production it helped reduce his POIS. My question is why is that? For semen, I can understand, but how are sperm (the little tiny things swimming around) really related to POIS? Is it possible that not only can the body be stressed out by lost semen, but also by producing sperm? Maybe I'm missing something on how sperm and semen are related, if at all.

We dont understand it so far. There are two theories: 1. Autoimmune-allergy theory  2. Semen refractory theory which led Animus to his operation.

3) This is related to question 1. If someone just had their seminal vesicles removed and left the testicles, would their desire to have sex be affected at all, or is libido pretty much just related to the testicles and not at all the seminal vesicles (which only are responsible for producing semen)?

Yes, it will not affect your sex life.

...exactly, actually, Refractory Theory is a good term for this...
there is a pie chart here:  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=111.0
which shows by what percentage each gland contributes to semen volume.

[FloppyBanana]

If we get just the prostate shrunk can we get less symptoms?

That's a good question- For me, it helped very much to ease my symptoms. The prostate produces about 25% of the seminal fluid. (My reasoning was that shrinking it should create less semen.)
Plus, it's relatively harmless to shrink the prostate by using medicines. I think it's a worthwhile thing to try.  Saw Palmetto is an herb used in Europe and America to reduce the prostate, and it is available without a prescription. I use it currently together with a prescription medication also intended to shrink the prostate. I think it keeps my prostate pretty small!

So you did take finasteride before surgery?, how much did it lessen your sympthoms? 20 percent? Dont you have any sides from finasteride? How many do you take it? 5mg?

Hi Starsky, Yes, I started  Flomax (Tamsulosin) in 2007- a year before my surgery. I recently switched to a more powerful one- Avodart 0.5mg (Dutasteride).
Flomax did improve the symptoms both physically and mentally. I don't remember a quantitative amount (percentage) of improvement. But it was significant... and it didn't have any noticeable side effects for me, so I was glad to stay on it.
I recently switched to the Avodart, because I wanted the most powerful one. The Avodart works very well and got me to being 100% POIS free.

This quote from Animus indicates that the operations he had did not completely eliminate his POIS but in order to do that he had to take the medication Avodart.
hmmmm.....
FloppyB

[FloppyBanana]

As I understand it Animus had two main effective operations; prostatectomy and vesiculectomy. Animus mentioned not long after he had the surgery (back in 2009) that there are newer safer ways of having these operations via robot technology. Animus said he had a big scare from these opps. I understand you now don't get the big scares with robot surgery. I guess that is not the worry. The worry is having nerve damage in the operation which amongst other things could cause permanent erectile dysfunction or incontinence. I believe robot surgery does reduce these risks though.

As we stand now millions of people have had robot surgery for prostate removal (total or partial). It is also used for vesiculectomy but this is a very uncommon operation so I expect the expertise for this may be harder to find.

http://www.davinciprostatectomy.com

http://www.davinciprostatectomy.com/assets/docs/da-vinci-surgery-fact-sheet-en-1005195.pdf?location=3&version=b

FloppyB

[demografx]

[to John21]
...remember Animus? He’s back also, and he’s been
100% POIS-free for the last 10 years with his radical “male hysterectomy”. You can search the forum for the update.

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1430.msg32301#msg32301

Everyone: I’m not at all suggesting that we all go out and do risky/expensive surgery. But let’s try & see if we can learn from Animus’ experience!
Demo

[Hopeoneday]

In the Russian forum, there is
several members that healed after variocele surgery, hypotheses
is that it is because of antibiotics that are taken postoperatively, one of them
returned with pois after 2 -3 months.
Some people were free from pois after extracting wisdom teeth
(antibiotic tratmant hypotheses again).

[Muon]

In the Russian forum, there is
several members that healed after variocele surgery, hypotheses
is that it is because of antibiotics that are taken postoperatively, one of them
returned with pois after 2 -3 months.
Some people were free from pois after extracting wisdom teeth
(antibiotic tratmant hypotheses again).

Did Animus use antibiotics postoperatively by the way? Perhaps he had an infection which was removed together with the removed tissue? You could measure IL-8 in seminal plasma which could give you a potential indication of infection/inflammation.

[demografx]

In the Russian forum, there is
several members that healed after variocele surgery...

Interesting.