Hi guys, I'm back from my trip. here's my update:
I was taking Kurtosis's vitamins for about 8 days. I felt better every day up until day 6, when i started to feel worse again. By day 8 I felt extreme disappointment and frustration. I was at point 0, and worst yet, I had been taking 5 pills or so concurrently, so I couldn't even tell my doctor with certainty which one of them had made me feel better. So I started to take 1 vitamin per day. Day 9 only Zinc, Day 10 only Magnesium, Day 11 only B Vitamin, Day 12 only Huperzine, Day 13 only Ginkgo...... but none on its own made me feel better.
Then I read some of Kurtosis's posts about B-Vitamins and Zinc being the main vitamins. For the last 19 days (days 13-32) I've only been taking B-Vitamins and Zinc. On day 3 or so of this new routine I felt slightly better but that was the only day of feeling better and there hasn't been another really good day since then.
Here's my theory, and it's in-line with Kurtosis's views: My problem is my catecholamine levels. The B-Vitamins on the first few days of taking them increased my Catecholamine levels making me feel better. Within a few days though, my body adjusted to the B Vitamins and put me back into my own crappy equilibrium state. If I continue to take the B Vitamins for long enough, my catecholine levels will keep rising and my body will adjust and recognize the new, higher levels, making me feel much much better. So basically I need to give it another couple weeks. I think this analysis also explains why wellbutrin works so well for me on days 1 and 2, and then does nothing for at least 2 weeks after that. Kurtosis, I'd be interested in your take on this.
Hi B_Daniel,
My diet is very protein rich either through supplementation or food. For example I eat an egg, yoghurt and spirulina every day. All these contain tyrosine. I've done this since I decided that the answer was dopamine depletion. Now that doesn't mean that I don't believe other catecholamines may be elevated but I believe POIS sufferers are in a low dopamine state. They may also not be generating enough niacin to balance other reactions in their body. As haidcat has pointed out niacin helps with inhibiting the dopamine to noradrenaline conversion. Niacin is synthesised from tryptophan. Believe it or not but testosterone to oestrogen levels should be in a certain ratio for optimum synthesis of niacin. Everything is related!
So I'm giving my body a lot of raw ingredients to make dopamine. The b vitamins help but I haven't been slow to increase my protein intake, reasoning that my body will make dopamine if only I can give it enough raw ingredients and try to manage stress so it's not all being wasted by being turned in noradrenaline and then adrenaline. But I started on this path months ago.
So I think you need to persevere but to make sure that you have enough raw ingredients to make dopamine by consuming foods with tyrosine and or phenylalanine. See the table at
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000087000000000000000.htmlI've also come to understand that acetyl l-carninte and taurine are very good for improving energy and managing stress by reducing cortisol levels and increasing BDNF. I haven't taken huperzine in over a week and haven't noticed much difference. I've come to realise that it does boost memory but ONLY when you're already leaving the POIS state as I was.
I used up my previous tubs of acetyl l-carnitine and l-taurine and have tried carnitine complex which contains both. It's got some real kick. If that seems too expensive then try adding some taurine. The combination of tyrosine rich foods or supplements and taurine should help increase dopamine while discouraging the stress state that increases adrenaline production.
It's entirely possible that wellbutrin isn't working consistently for you for several reasons. Here are some 1) you might have a protein metabolism problem which means you need more of it in easily digestible form (think whey peptides, "amino" supplements or spirulina). You just can't make enough dopamine. 2) Something happens after an O which blocks dopamine production for too long (excess prolactin?) or 3) for physiological and psychological reasons you're converting excess dopamine in noradrenaline or adrenaline which is making you feel sick.
The other thing is, don't be afraid to start off with a relatively high dose of ginkgo. I'm on 120mg now but I took 240mg / day for the first 3-4 weeks. This is probably not necessary with taurine supplementation.
So try to think of it as a balancing act with your body. Enough supplementation to boost dopamine but also trying to reduce cortisol and adrenaline. Take walks every day and try to get out of the frustrated state. If possible try to get a long weekend or break away where you are away from direct stressors.
If for allergy or cost reasons you can't follow a high protein diet then the easiest thing to do would be to buy some l-tyrosine and l-taurine but for whatever reason this doesn't work as well for me as getting the tyrosine from a complete protein.
