Author Topic: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!  (Read 122835 times)

demografx

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10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

haidcat

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2012, 06:30:45 PM »
Kurtosis, what sorts of eye problems do you have? Because I have some visual problems too, just want to specifically see what you have. Also, niacin did not really help me too much, and like others on here, I have the constant semen in urine issue going on. Many times i get a cloudy white or foggy substance spread throughout my urine, I thought it was calcium, but took a urine test and they found no calcium, I have to assume its semen particulate, because I do have major prostate issues. Therefore, it seems the vitamin regimen would be worth a shot. What do you consider essential for the muscle pains, fatigue and concentration issues? Huperzine seems very intersting

jivetalk

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2012, 08:29:49 PM »
Hi All,

Haven't posted in quite a while, as time has been very tight for me - but I have always been lurking as with many of us.
Thought I had to write something here as I have recently tried this Vitamin Supplementation after reading Kurtosis and Nightingales accounts.

I have been using Niacin for quote awhile had never been a total cure for me. It Definitely helped, but I have always maintained that it helped me around 70% - I still felt quote fatigued at times and my head wasn't always clear. That added with the fact that you have to take Niacin at a somewhere around 1 to 1.5 hrs before sex always is a real pain.

Before Niacin, I had already tried a Mega B Complex, Ginko & Vitamin C but had given up as they individually had not a huge benefit - So I had this stuff lying around, I decided to give this a go. First Day, I took two B Complex, Two Ginko and Vitamin C in the morning and in the evening, second day same but in the evening accompanied this with 200mg of Niacin (where I usually take 300mg) for the evenings events. That night I O'ed twice within about 3 hours with not much noticable cognitive or fatigue affects that evening or the next day. I would say the niacin effectiveness was increased to about 90%+ But I can't be sure if the additional supplementation is helping the Niacin or if the supplements are working on their own, because I have not been game enough to try O'ing without the Niacin.

This was almost two weeks ago, and I have since added Magnensium.  I have O'ed about 5 Times since then on the same supplementation schedule (not twice in one night though), again with 90%+ effectiveness. I do have to say though , sometimes I feel in the afternoon the POIS coming back a little stronger, I take another B and another Ginko and a Magnesium and within 30 minutes its all good..

I've ordered some Huperzine A, Krill Oil, Spirulina and Zinc to add to my regimen which should arrive in a few weeks. I hope to cut down on the amount of B Tablets with these...and maybe try without Niacin.

There is DEFINATELY something to this guys. Thanks to Kurtosis for Pioneering this and for everyone trying this.


kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2012, 01:14:16 AM »
Kurtosis, what sorts of eye problems do you have? Because I have some visual problems too, just want to specifically see what you have. Also, niacin did not really help me too much, and like others on here, I have the constant semen in urine issue going on. Many times i get a cloudy white or foggy substance spread throughout my urine, I thought it was calcium, but took a urine test and they found no calcium, I have to assume its semen particulate, because I do have major prostate issues. Therefore, it seems the vitamin regimen would be worth a shot. What do you consider essential for the muscle pains, fatigue and concentration issues? Huperzine seems very intersting

Double vision. Sometimes it's fine but other times my eyes can hardly focus. It's very very annoying.

kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2012, 03:56:15 AM »
Hi All,

Haven't posted in quite a while, as time has been very tight for me - but I have always been lurking as with many of us.
Thought I had to write something here as I have recently tried this Vitamin Supplementation after reading Kurtosis and Nightingales accounts.

I have been using Niacin for quote awhile had never been a total cure for me. It Definitely helped, but I have always maintained that it helped me around 70% - I still felt quote fatigued at times and my head wasn't always clear. That added with the fact that you have to take Niacin at a somewhere around 1 to 1.5 hrs before sex always is a real pain.

Before Niacin, I had already tried a Mega B Complex, Ginko & Vitamin C but had given up as they individually had not a huge benefit - So I had this stuff lying around, I decided to give this a go. First Day, I took two B Complex, Two Ginko and Vitamin C in the morning and in the evening, second day same but in the evening accompanied this with 200mg of Niacin (where I usually take 300mg) for the evenings events. That night I O'ed twice within about 3 hours with not much noticable cognitive or fatigue affects that evening or the next day. I would say the niacin effectiveness was increased to about 90%+ But I can't be sure if the additional supplementation is helping the Niacin or if the supplements are working on their own, because I have not been game enough to try O'ing without the Niacin.

This was almost two weeks ago, and I have since added Magnensium.  I have O'ed about 5 Times since then on the same supplementation schedule (not twice in one night though), again with 90%+ effectiveness. I do have to say though , sometimes I feel in the afternoon the POIS coming back a little stronger, I take another B and another Ginko and a Magnesium and within 30 minutes its all good..

I've ordered some Huperzine A, Krill Oil, Spirulina and Zinc to add to my regimen which should arrive in a few weeks. I hope to cut down on the amount of B Tablets with these...and maybe try without Niacin.

There is DEFINATELY something to this guys. Thanks to Kurtosis for Pioneering this and for everyone trying this.



Are you taking b co-enzymes? I've found that the best way to take the zinc and magnesium is together with a b complex just a short time before I go asleep. I'd never take 3 b complex / day.

haidcat

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2012, 08:44:15 AM »
Why the emphasis on B coenzymes? Do normal B-complexes not work for you?

kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2012, 12:50:29 PM »
I've found they don't work as well. I tried 2 b complexes before the Now one and I found myself becoming nauseous after 3-4 weeks of taking them. So I stopped. In particular I do not believe that high doses of pyroxidine HCl form of B6 is a long term treatment option and I feel the same way about cyanocobalamin (common form of b12 but less absorbable than methylcobalamin) I think that the coenzymated forms are much easier for our bodies to use and less wasteful.

jivetalk

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2012, 08:52:43 PM »
I was thinking taking three B Vitamins a day was a little excessive. Going to try to keep it down to a Maximum of Two a Day.
Do you take, One, two, One, two etc.. on alternating days? even if you O?

The B Vitamin I'm currently taking is not a Co-Enzyme,

http://www.micro-genics.com.au/product/mega-b-high-potency

Ingredients (per capsule):
Thiamin nitrate (Vit. B1) 100mg
Riboflavin (Vit. B2) 100mg
Nicotinamide (Vit B3) 100mg
Calcium pantothenate (Vit B5)100mg
Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vit. B6) 100mg
Cyanocobalamin (Vit. B12) 50mcg
Folic acid 100mcg
Biotin 100mcg
Choline Bitartrate 50mg
Inositol 50mg

But I've only got a about a weeks worth of pills left. I've ordered the NOW Foods one that you suggested, so hopefully that will be here before I run out of pills.


ve-to

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2012, 09:55:37 PM »
I just went on a run today, and was surprised to feel more energized than I usually do.  My fatigue didn't set in as early as it usually does.  I've been taking these vitamins for over 5 weeks now.  I just had an "O" yesterday accompanied with niacin.  I really feel good right now.  It's really genuine, I'm not having to consciously force myself to think positively.  I typically have to tell myself I'm feeling good lol.


Please tell me exactly what you're taking and the doses,thank u.

kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2012, 01:29:25 AM »
I was thinking taking three B Vitamins a day was a little excessive. Going to try to keep it down to a Maximum of Two a Day.
Do you take, One, two, One, two etc.. on alternating days? even if you O?

The B Vitamin I'm currently taking is not a Co-Enzyme,

http://www.micro-genics.com.au/product/mega-b-high-potency

Ingredients (per capsule):
Thiamin nitrate (Vit. B1) 100mg
Riboflavin (Vit. B2) 100mg
Nicotinamide (Vit B3) 100mg
Calcium pantothenate (Vit B5)100mg
Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vit. B6) 100mg
Cyanocobalamin (Vit. B12) 50mcg
Folic acid 100mcg
Biotin 100mcg
Choline Bitartrate 50mg
Inositol 50mg

But I've only got a about a weeks worth of pills left. I've ordered the NOW Foods one that you suggested, so hopefully that will be here before I run out of pills.



Sounds good. I take one every morning and another at night on alternate days. I take the night one with zinc and magnesium. If you're feeling depressed and anxious then some taurine supplementation (say every 2nd day) can also be beneficial. If there was a b6 deficiency then our bodies would make less taurine and this would impair our ability to deal with stress. It should also raise testosterone levels and make exercising easier. I'm taking less huperzine now. 100mcg every 3rd day. I think it's not as important as the other ingredients but is useful in giving your memory a boost.

jivetalk

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2012, 08:21:46 AM »
Kurtosis,

I'm interested in the acetyl l-carnitine that you're taking and wondering if I should add that to the mix, how are you taking this, and what benefit do you feel this gives?
Taurine sounds interesting as well, and far as I can tell, not too many side effects. How much Taurine do you take?

Cheers,

JT

kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2012, 10:33:59 AM »
Kurtosis,

I'm interested in the acetyl l-carnitine that you're taking and wondering if I should add that to the mix, how are you taking this, and what benefit do you feel this gives?
Taurine sounds interesting as well, and far as I can tell, not too many side effects. How much Taurine do you take?

Cheers,

JT

acetyl l-carnitine of 500mg every 2nd day at the moment. It appears to improve memory. I feel it may be more effective than huperzine long term as it's a naturally occurring protein.  Huperzine may not be a long term option for anyone who doesn't suffer from a specific choline-related memory impairment. Perhaps a small amount every few days but 200mcg is too much. Bear in mind that I started taking this to get my memory back on track.

I always found taurine helped me deal with stress, whether in POIS or not. Also about 500mg every 3rd day. I've thought of trying a supplement called "True Focus" which has taurine, gingko and DMAE but I'm concerned about taking any more b6 in pyroxidine HCl form. It is astonishing, however, how taking the right amino acids and b vitamins can improve focus or give energy. This was not widely appreciated up until recently, that amino acids taken by themselves could have very different affects than when taken in combination with other amino acids. So I don't view these substances as having a placebo effect, it's very real.

jivetalk

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2012, 08:12:58 PM »
Completely agree.

The more I look into what it is we are taking, the more it makes a lot of sense...

There's plenty of references out there for taking B6 with Magenesium to help with Fatigue, Depresession, Anxiety, Social Phobia...etc....All things which many of us DO experiences in POIS/
For example: http://www.organicfoodee.com/vms/magcit-vitaminb6/

Amazing stuff.

Kurtosis, what led you onto this combination of Vitamins? and what is your current hypothesis at the moment about why this is working as well as it does?

JT

kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2012, 04:21:10 AM »
Completely agree.

The more I look into what it is we are taking, the more it makes a lot of sense...

There's plenty of references out there for taking B6 with Magenesium to help with Fatigue, Depresession, Anxiety, Social Phobia...etc....All things which many of us DO experiences in POIS/
For example: http://www.organicfoodee.com/vms/magcit-vitaminb6/

Amazing stuff.

Kurtosis, what led you onto this combination of Vitamins? and what is your current hypothesis at the moment about why this is working as well as it does?

JT

I discussed it over on the Naked Scientists Forum. I think that POIS is leading to fluctuating catecholamine levels (including dopamine) which is affecting our ability to plan and focus. My hypothesis is autoimmune but problems with metabolism or synthesis of b vitamins can lead to depression, memory loss, hormonal imbalances etc. These can have negative feedback loops. For example, too little b6 (and zinc+magnesium) would reduce testosterone production which would upset the testosterone / oestrogen ratio. This in turn would prevent the body from generating it's own niacin (b3) from the protein tryptophan. You get the idea, it's all related.
Then I looked at my own symptoms. Memory loss, inability to recollect dreams and stomach problems all started with POIS and have worsened as other POIS symptoms worsened. For example, the pain in my head I got when I had an O got worse over time. Inability to remember dreams has been linked to b6 deficiency so that was another hint.

But basically, the cocktail is designed to stimulate production of neurotransmitters, try to increase the secretion of BDNF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-derived_neurotrophic_factor and reduce inflammation. Reducing inflammation is one of the most important aspects of POIS treatment as it does appear there is some form of allergy going on here & I've noticed that itches, rashes and sinusitis appear to be linked to the severity of my POIS.

What is causing POIS, I don't know. I've had numerous hypothesis but I can't say whether they apply to everyone here. However, the most likely appears to be an autoimmune disease as POIS has afflicted some sufferers after puberty where the onset was sudden, it appears to be accompanied by other signs of immunological disorder such as allergies or flu-like symptoms & the few of us who have had MRI's have not reported any neurodegeneration so it's not something like alzheimers or parkinsons. 

Whether there's a "mechanical" cause to this (the "sperm in the bladder" hypothesis) I don't know. There are at least 2 other things that I think could cause POIS-like symptoms. The first is a tumour of the pituitary gland which could be benign but still upset the body's hormonal balance. I've read that these can sometimes cause vision problems and increase decrease libido also. It's about the only thing I haven't been tested for.

The 2nd is a deficiency in prostaglandin PGE1. This could be the result of a genetic mutation in the 2 genes which are required to synthesise prostaglandins from essential fatty acids (e.g. omega 3 and 6). This is also a promising hypothesis as D6D mutations have been linked to schizophrenia, "brain fog" problems and allergic reactions. If this was the problem then the treatment would involve Gamma linoleic acid (GLA) and omega 3 fatty acids in fish oils. Incidentally, I've seen that stomach problems caused by D6D have been experimentally treated with Ginkgo. Spirulina is high in GLA. I'm not sure it's the best source as it contains many other ingredients that have a stimulating effect. In combination with taurine, spirulina should give you more energy and focus but I can't take more than 3 capsules without feeling a bit manic. It may be too stimulating :)
If you wish to try other alternatives to supplement GLA then borage oil is also a possibility.

ve-to

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2012, 08:19:49 AM »
i have done the test and not pituitary tumor.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 08:24:50 AM by vetrofragile79 »

kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2012, 08:46:17 AM »
i have done the test and not pituitary tumor.
That's good. Not something you'd want to have.
One other possibility is some variation of Hartnup disorder where the body cannot absorb amino acids efficiently and they're excreted in the urine.
I had high levels of protein in my urine during one test but that doctor didn't seem to think much of it. Just asked me was I eating a lot of meat and going to the gym :)

Inability to absorb tryptophan, for example, leads to a deficiency in niacinamide (the former is converted into the latter) and a range of pellagra like symptoms including difficulty concentrating, high anxiety, possible development of schizophrenia. We know niacin can help treat this so it's plausible that some aspect of POIS symptoms is due to a niacin deficiency.

Deficiencies in other amino acids lead to low levels of catecholamines etc. Some of us seem to have constant POIS whereas others feel they recover. It's unclear whether such an illness could be episodic or exacerbated by O's. Patients improve when they take a high protein diet (through supplements or just eating lots of meat, eggs, etc.) with niacin supplementation.

LAPOISSE

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #76 on: August 09, 2012, 11:18:11 AM »
It's finally seems to work.

I felt so bad yesterday after 12 days of hard POIS that I took 2 pills of some antistaminic (we call it kestin ; its made with Ebastine), 1,5g of niaciniamide(never have effect with 500mg) and had an O (telling me myself : felling that bad anyway, better to know why)

And Miraculously, I fell about 70% of my cognitive capacity(I was about 20% yesterday) and 90% physicals. I should be about 20% -50% so about -30% ; I pretty sure it's niaciniamide at that dosage.

I receive today my B-vitamine complex(no co-enzimated) and took one pills ; Should be placebo, but i feel energized. I use to take some vitamines but the dosage is very low.I'll start vitamine+Gingko+Omega3/6/9 +niacin before O+continue running every 2 days+ better diet . What do you think about relora ?

If it works, it will just my life.

Thank you guys for sharing with us those precious informations

jivetalk

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #77 on: August 09, 2012, 08:48:21 PM »
Kurtosis,

Thanks for such a detailed reply.

As an update, I had an O the other night took the usual, and 200mg of Niacin. This time I didin't feel the flush. Next day, I was back to about 70-80%% of POIS reduction...So prima facie it seems that the Vitamin Regimen is assisting the Niacin effect. Time will tell.

Still feeling a bit low in energy/lazy from that episode and a bit of brain fog, so I'm going to look into the Taurine and the ACL.

Cheers,

JT


Daveman

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #78 on: August 09, 2012, 09:02:14 PM »
LAPOISSE, Jivetalk, great, great, great!

I like the sound of what happened to you JT. Sounds like a good combo.

Perhaps the b complex will make the rules a little less stringent with the niacin.

I started with complex, but I´m in themiddle of changing BP meds, so had to let off for a little while.

Once I stabalize I'll go back to the treatment.

Maybe a week more.

The B comlex seems to clear my urine up. Clearer, lighter.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

kurtosis

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Re: Vitamin supplementation WORKS - start taking them!
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2012, 05:47:51 AM »
Kurtosis,

Thanks for such a detailed reply.

As an update, I had an O the other night took the usual, and 200mg of Niacin. This time I didin't feel the flush. Next day, I was back to about 70-80%% of POIS reduction...So prima facie it seems that the Vitamin Regimen is assisting the Niacin effect. Time will tell.

Still feeling a bit low in energy/lazy from that episode and a bit of brain fog, so I'm going to look into the Taurine and the ACL.

Cheers,

JT



I've read that taurine can be useful for those who are hyper sensitive to mono sodium glutamate in foods. The idea is that MSG affects the body's ability to produce taurine which may lead to digestive, heart, nervous and vision problems. It's interesting just how many things can create a smorgasbord of similar problems in people. Indeed, the idea of psychosomatic illnesses being diagnosed with such frequency is ridiculous when you consider how alien our diet and environment is to what it was say a hundred years ago and how much stress that's placing on our bodies. This is what convinces me that other people have variations of POIS, if we could only find the common cause then it might clear up a range of fatigue & cognitive related illnesses.

Also, one of the reasons that I like the Now b complex is that it has CoQ10 which theoretically would help neurones obtain energy in times when they're being intensely stimulated. I take CoQ10 with b6 for this reason.