Author Topic: Free Flow Discussion about POIS  (Read 578507 times)

Vandemolen

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #345 on: October 26, 2012, 08:25:53 PM »
This was not dr. Waldinger, but my allergist who said this.

Vandemolen, when I spoke with Dr Waldinger, he had no idea why testosterone works for my POIS.

I think testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) hastens (speeds up) the semen-regeneration process in cases like mine.

I have been POIS-free for 3 years  in my opinion  because semen now regenerates quickly after ejaculation.

When my regeneration was very slow, my POIS was terrible.

I realize that regeneration-speed and POIS might be associative, not causative.

And I am speaking for my case only. But I do not see a connection between stress and testosterone. TRT has actually made me more anxious, and my doctor has prescribed to counteract the anxiety effect of testosterone for me.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Daveman

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #346 on: October 27, 2012, 06:15:49 AM »
I talked to my doctor about the testosterone theory. He said that the reasons why some of us get relief by testosterone is because of the stress level. He said that if your body is in stress you will not feel smaller pains. For example, if a lion runs after you, you will not feel you have a headache. The testosterone brings the body in a stress level. So if the POIS comes up you will not feel it. He said that it would be good if there were more studies about the use of testosterone on the long term. What are the effects on the lungs and other organs? That was my doctors explanation.

Not really trying to be negative, but if I had so much stress that I couldn't feel POIS, I don't think that I would feel "better off", much less cured.
WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
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kurtosis

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #347 on: October 27, 2012, 07:43:07 AM »
two words in the  first paper describe pois best, "neuroimmunoendocrine disorders". i think that covers it. now do we have a doctor that study all three specialties.

Best place to go may be neuroscientists researching diseases like Parkinsons and Alzheimers. The reason being that these disorders are obviously "neuro"-logical but may have immunological and endocrinological components.
Why might they be interested in POIS?
Because some of our symptoms including cognition problems, shakes, chills etc. resemble the effects of some of these diseases but we only have them for a short time (or so we hope :)). So finding out the POIS reaction that produces this state may be interesting in understanding other diseases. Just a thought.

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #348 on: October 27, 2012, 08:59:00 AM »
This was not dr. Waldinger, but my allergist who said this.

Vandemolen, when I spoke with Dr Waldinger, he had no idea why testosterone works for my POIS.

I think testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) hastens (speeds up) the semen-regeneration process in cases like mine.

I have been POIS-free for 3 years  in my opinion  because semen now regenerates quickly after ejaculation.

When my regeneration was very slow, my POIS was terrible.

I realize that regeneration-speed and POIS might be associative, not causative.

And I am speaking for my case only. But I do not see a connection between stress and testosterone. TRT has actually made me more anxious, and my doctor has prescribed to counteract the anxiety effect of testosterone for me.

If Dr Meinardi OR Dr Waldinger, it doesn't matter who: the medical "opinion"  that testosterone creates so much stress that it helps POIS is...nonsense.



« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:16:57 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #349 on: October 27, 2012, 09:08:41 AM »
I talked to my doctor about the testosterone theory. He said that the reasons why some of us get relief by testosterone is because of the stress level. He said that if your body is in stress you will not feel smaller pains. For example, if a lion runs after you, you will not feel you have a headache. The testosterone brings the body in a stress level. So if the POIS comes up you will not feel it. He said that it would be good if there were more studies about the use of testosterone on the long term. What are the effects on the lungs and other organs? That was my doctors explanation.

Not really trying to be negative, but if I had so much stress that I couldn't feel POIS, I don't think that I would feel "better off", much less cured.

You are factual, Daveman. Not negative. You summarize this better than me!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 09:23:36 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #350 on: October 27, 2012, 09:25:55 AM »
two words in the  first paper describe pois best, "neuroimmunoendocrine disorders". i think that covers it. now do we have a doctor that study all three specialties.

Best place to go may be neuroscientists researching diseases like Parkinsons and Alzheimers. The reason being that these disorders are obviously "neuro"-logical but may have immunological and endocrinological components.
Why might they be interested in POIS?
Because some of our symptoms including cognition problems, shakes, chills etc. resemble the effects of some of these diseases but we only have them for a short time (or so we hope :)). So finding out the POIS reaction that produces this state may be interesting in understanding other diseases. Just a thought.

Excellent thought, kurtosis.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Stef

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #351 on: October 27, 2012, 11:48:53 AM »
I talked to my doctor about the testosterone theory. He said that the reasons why some of us get relief by testosterone is because of the stress level. He said that if your body is in stress you will not feel smaller pains. For example, if a lion runs after you, you will not feel you have a headache. The testosterone brings the body in a stress level. So if the POIS comes up you will not feel it. He said that it would be good if there were more studies about the use of testosterone on the long term. What are the effects on the lungs and other organs? That was my doctors explanation.

Not really trying to be negative, but if I had so much stress that I couldn't feel POIS, I don't think that I would feel "better off", much less cured.

Hi All,

I'm also not trying to be negative.

NOTHING is known about POIS, so how can anyone here, myself definitely included, know how TRT (or niacin) helps some with POIS?

Van -- it sounds (to me) like your doc was referring to the dangerously high doses of testosterone (and other steroid hormones) taken illegally by athletes to enhance performance.  That's what allows them to push their sport to the max without noticing the pain and damage they're doing to themselves.

Demo reports wonderful success with TRT, despite his testosterone levels having been within normal limits when his endocrinologist agreed to try start giving it to him in small but increasing doses. I remember him saying that he had to really persist until his endocrinologist agreed, and that it was prescribed for him very cautiously.  As his dose was increased, his POIS began to diminish to the point of GONE WITH THE WIND.

Van -- re: what your doc said about TRT causing such a high-stress sensation that POIS won't be noticed -- I'm thinking that what he said vs what he meant, and/or how he interpreted what you asked -- might be different things.

Men who need TRT -- for whatever health reason -- do report eventually feeling alive and well for the first time in years.  They don't feel stressed -- they feel the opposite.  When needed, TRT lifts depression, increases muscular strength (increases it to normal muscular strength), may improve the lipid profile (cholesterol, etc.) and -- maybe not so great for POIS -- increases libido. With respect to POIS, possibly the most significant recent findings re: testosterone is that there is evidence from scientific studies that it may decrease neuro-inflammation, and may even be neuro-protective.

***This is not a suggestion for everyone with POIS to go on TRT!!!! It's got definite side-effects and risks and is not to be thought of as an easy/safe fix. Demo is being carefully monitored by his doc, and his dose has been adjusted over the three years or so that he's been taking it.

Something within Demo told him that TRT might help him -- and he persisted with good physicians.  Happily TRT works wonderfully for him.

VM -- I think there's a high likelihood that you doc was possibly thinking "anabolic steroids" -- like WWE wrestlers and athletes take illegally when they are "doping"  to increase their athletic performance, a la Lance Armstrong.

Again -- no criticism is meant here.

Eventually with research, POIS will be understood. 

As an aside, I am astonished at the donations this group has given for October!!   What amazing good fortune for all of you that a generous sponsor came forward, and that so many of you responded in kind. :-)

Stef


demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #352 on: October 27, 2012, 12:34:42 PM »
Thanks for clarifying, Stef!

My endocrinologist says "supraphysiologic doses" of testosterone are often taken by athletes. Dangerously. Stress? Sure! With 5x the normal dose!!!

Please let me clarify my story. My T levels were LOW initially. When they got to normal range with TRT - I felt better. But I was greedy after suffering POIS so miserably for 30++ years, so I asked for and was approved for a 50% higher dose (from 10mg daily Androderm to 15mg).

That worked! (For ME, I am not promoting TRT for anyone but myself. We are all different.)

After 2+ years of this, I reduced to 8mg daily. Unlike my other "cures", TRT kept improving my POIS steadily. I felt confident enough after 2+ years to experiment with a lower dose.

I credit my success to a desperate phone call I made to Dr Petr Weiss, a sexologist in the Czech Republic, recommended by Kate Thomas, from Johns Hopkins University in 2003.

Dr Weiss *firmly* insisted that TRT was my solution for POIS.

Kate Thomas was recommended by a Sexual Medicine doctor I saw on Larry King Live CNN, who was yet another one of MANY desperate phone calls from me shouting and screaming for help with my POIS! ;D



« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:43:47 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

kurtosis

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #353 on: October 27, 2012, 01:03:43 PM »
Demo, if TRT was damaging you in any way then surely your doctor would know. I presume that they're monitoring you for any adverse affects such as reduced testicular function and liver problems. These have been found in weightlifters who used huge amounts (as you point out) of exogenous testosterone.  If you're not suffering any adverse affects then I don't see what the problem is.

Testosterone has been shown to reduce histamine release and inflammation. Long term inflammatory illness appears to strain the body as it must divert pregnenolone into the production of cortisol rather than testosterone. So long term inflammation actually reduces Testosterone levels. This may actually increase the inflammation problem as the body can't produce enough testosterone.

Neurological inflammation is a very bad thing. Bad for long term mental health and cognitive ability in later life. If you feel you can't think straight because of POIS then stopping that is an imperative. TRT monitored by a doctor is a very responsible measure in that light and it's arguably safer than repeated use of synthetic corticosteroids to reduce inflammation.

I'm all for TRT and/or bio-identical hormone supplementation (pregnenolone or DHEA) IF it's supervised by a doctor.

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #354 on: October 27, 2012, 01:10:34 PM »
Thank you, kurtosis!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #355 on: October 27, 2012, 06:20:19 PM »

...Men who need TRT -- for whatever health reason -- do report eventually feeling alive and well for the first time in years.  They don't feel stressed -- they feel the opposite.  When needed, TRT lifts depression, increases muscular strength (increases it to normal muscular strength), may improve the lipid profile (cholesterol, etc.)...


Stef, this was such a pleasantly unexpected surprise I saw with TRT!  Some of the above almost immediately.

Especially the depression lift! :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:23:33 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Vincent M

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #356 on: October 31, 2012, 09:20:54 AM »
Neem didn't have any effect at all on me. I took one capsule daily for almost 2 months. My lazy version of SLIT also yielded zero results for me after about 3 months so I've given up on that. I'll update my experiences with these two trials in my treatment profile when I get a chance.  I was thinking of trying a version of Kurtosis's method next, but his is focused mainly for cognitive issues and I want to focus on my joint pain, back pain, and eye burning for my next treatment trial.
Taking ginger tea, no wheat, fenugreek+green tea/garlic, saw palmetto, niacin, boswellia, huperzine, B complex and nutmeg. See my treatment summary post for more info: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=81.msg3513#msg3513

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #357 on: October 31, 2012, 09:48:55 AM »
Vincent, thanks for reporting!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Ccconfucius

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #358 on: October 31, 2012, 10:32:48 AM »
Neem didn't have any effect at all on me. I took one capsule daily for almost 2 months. My lazy version of SLIT also yielded zero results for me after about 3 months so I've given up on that. I'll update my experiences with these two trials in my treatment profile when I get a chance.  I was thinking of trying a version of Kurtosis's method next, but his is focused mainly for cognitive issues and I want to focus on my joint pain, back pain, and eye burning for my next treatment trial.
Look into wobenzym one guy said it help his pois by alot. And Wobenzym claims it reduces inflammation and can help people with arthiritis.
Wobenzym contains groups of digestive enzymes.  
not doctor continue at your own risk ;D
In summary of treatments you will find how to use it.

demografx

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Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #359 on: October 31, 2012, 02:49:19 PM »

THANK
YOU
LIMEJUICE!!!

$1,000.00!!!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business