Author Topic: Free Flow Discussion about POIS  (Read 1002210 times)

Nightingale

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1440 on: October 05, 2014, 07:45:38 PM »
Vagus Nerve Stimulator
http://www.cerbomed.com/transcutaneous-Vagus-Nerve-Stimulation-88.html
Anyone looking into transcutaneous Vagus Nerve Stimulation devices (tVNS) such as Nemos by Cerbomed should consider that this devices is simply an expensive TENS unit.  The 4000 dollar device is based off of studies that used a standard TENS unit($150 on Amazon) to stimulate the auricular branch of the vagus nerve distributed to the skin of the ear(Clancy et al., 2014).  This is simply done by placing the TENS electrode on the tragus of the ear.  The electrical signal given to participants was (200 microseconds @ 30 Hz).  Besides that fact that Nemos is expensive, it is also only approved in 3 European countries and is not available in the United States.  I think it is unlikely that our POIS study will use Nemos, most likely they will just be using a modified TENS unit that fits and stays on the tragus.

Although Cerbomed states that Nemos is safe(this is a non-invasive device), invasive surgically implantable vagus nerve stimulation devices have been associated with much higher rates of cardiac death.  Stimulating the vagus nerve causes a change in heart rate variability, this not recommended without supervision by a medical professional.

Anybody interested in learning more about TENS units to stimulate the Vagus nerve should read these articles:

1) University of Leeds. "'Tickling' your ear could be good for your heart." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 19 August 2014. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140819200211.htm>.

ANDS ALSO the original study below by Clancy et al. 2014

2) Jennifer A. Clancy, David A. Mary, Klaus K. Witte, John P. Greenwood, Susan A. Deuchars, Jim Deuchars. Non-invasive Vagus Nerve Stimulation in Healthy Humans Reduces Sympathetic Nerve Activity. Brain Stimulation, 2014; DOI: 10.1016/j.brs.2014.07.031
http://www.brainstimjrnl.com/article/S1935-861X%2814%2900260-5/abstract

Article by Dr. Lauracostis

I just performed a VO2 max test at Virginia Tech last month. They confirmed what I've known for a while: I've got a much lower max heart rate than normal, they found 170 bpm when expected would be 190 bpm at my age. This naturally leads to a lower oxygen usage (VO2). I am currently seeking a neurologist who can work with me on this. Maybe they would be part of my treatment team in the future if vagal nerve stim is found to be helpful for POIS and/or there is enough reason to start using a vagal nerve stimulator?

Great post!
Turmeric and Rosemary 30-45 minutes before orgasm for anti-inflammatory and immune support has helped me a lot. Faster and easier than niacin approach.

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6362
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1441 on: October 05, 2014, 08:14:50 PM »

Great post!


I agree !

All tVNS posts above are enlightening!


« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 08:17:00 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6362
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1442 on: October 05, 2014, 08:40:59 PM »

I think it is unlikely that our POIS study will use Nemos [from Cerbomed], most likely they will just be using a modified TENS unit that fits and stays on the tragus.


From my notes when I visited Rutgers my understanding is that they will test a "Cerbomed tVNS device" on POISers. Not TENS.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

lauracostis

  • NLGroup
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 41
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1443 on: October 05, 2014, 09:17:05 PM »

I think it is unlikely that our POIS study will use Nemos [from Cerbomed], most likely they will just be using a modified TENS unit that fits and stays on the tragus.


From my notes when I visited Rutgers my understanding is that they will test a "Cerbomed tVNS device" on POISers. Not TENS.

That's great, the Nemos probably fits into the ear very nicely and would be a lot easier than designing your own tens electrodes that are comfortable and ergonomic. 

Prancer

  • Guest
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1444 on: October 05, 2014, 11:24:23 PM »
Very interesting! Thank you for that.

Upon thinking about this new research and vagus-nerve dystonia, I realized that I have always had issues with my ears and wonder what the connection may be... As a child, at age four I spiked 3 fevers above 104 degrees from ear infections! Also, I was diagnosed with auditory processing issues in school as a child. I have also had hypersensitive ears my whole life and wonder if there is connection to the research being done..
 

I remember right around the time I was developing POIS (14), my ears would feel & look red and hot at times for no apparent reason. No idea if there's any connection...but I wanted to say it.

Daveman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1445 on: October 06, 2014, 08:45:10 AM »
Vagus Nerve Stimulator
http://www.cerbomed.com/transcutaneous-Vagus-Nerve-Stimulation-88.html
Anyone looking into transcutaneous Vagus Nerve Stimulation devices (tVNS) such as Nemos by Cerbomed should consider that this devices is simply an expensive TENS unit.  The 4000 dollar device is based off of studies that used a standard TENS unit($150 on Amazon) to stimulate the auricular branch of the vagus nerve distributed to the skin of the ear(Clancy et al., 2014).  This is simply done by placing the TENS electrode on the tragus of the ear.  The electrical signal given to participants was (200 microseconds @ 30 Hz).  Besides that fact that Nemos is expensive, it is also only approved in 3 European countries and is not available in the United States.  I think it is unlikely that our POIS study will use Nemos, most likely they will just be using a modified TENS unit that fits and stays on the tragus.

Although Cerbomed states that Nemos is safe(this is a non-invasive device), invasive surgically implantable vagus nerve stimulation devices have been associated with much higher rates of cardiac death.  Stimulating the vagus nerve causes a change in heart rate variability, this not recommended without supervision by a medical professional.

Anybody interested in learning more about TENS units to stimulate the Vagus nerve should read these articles:

1) University of Leeds. "'Tickling' your ear could be good for your heart." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 19 August 2014. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140819200211.htm>.

ANDS ALSO the original study below by Clancy et al. 2014

2) Jennifer A. Clancy, David A. Mary, Klaus K. Witte, John P. Greenwood, Susan A. Deuchars, Jim Deuchars. Non-invasive Vagus Nerve Stimulation in Healthy Humans Reduces Sympathetic Nerve Activity. Brain Stimulation, 2014; DOI: 10.1016/j.brs.2014.07.031
http://www.brainstimjrnl.com/article/S1935-861X%2814%2900260-5/abstract

Article by Dr. Lauracostis

There is a reason that Dr, Komisaruk has been approved by the IRB. and that it took so long. These approvals aren't taken lightly, and they have, more than anything, our safety in mind.

Approved TENS devices are approved for specific applications. I imagine it could be very dangerous to use a device that is used for pain mitigation in joints and muscles for a delicate procedure like vagus nerve stimulation. Most TENS devices have "programs" and protocols, and specific electrode configurations. Some applications are "simple", others are very complex.

What make the TENS unit useful for any application, is the combination of factors that make it up. Most of these are controlled by firmware (internal software), but ultimatley come from medical expertise, research and knowledge.

I really don't care which unit Dr. Komisarul will use. If he uses the cheapest he can find, I don't have a problem, it's his knowledge in the choice and application, that I trust.

He has been doing this work and using devices like this for longer than any of us here. He is doing it in combination with careful study of the supposed patient (subject) and careful follow-through, which even includes an fMRI. Most cheap units don't come with an fMRI.

It's Dr. Komisuruk's protocol and follow-through that interest me.


« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 04:32:22 PM by Daveman »
WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6362
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1446 on: October 06, 2014, 09:26:29 AM »

I remember right around the time I was developing POIS (14), my ears would feel & look red and hot at times for no apparent reason. No idea if there's any connection...but I wanted to say it.


As a child I had frequently recurring painful earaches...FWIW.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

poisioq

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1447 on: October 06, 2014, 12:14:03 PM »

I remember right around the time I was developing POIS (14), my ears would feel & look red and hot at times for no apparent reason. No idea if there's any connection...but I wanted to say it.

I had exactly the same

Daveman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1448 on: October 06, 2014, 04:28:01 PM »
My ears ring a lot during POIS. FWIW. Unwanted vagal nerve stimulation?

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6362
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1449 on: October 06, 2014, 04:35:51 PM »
Interesting, Daveman!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Prancer

  • Guest
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1450 on: October 06, 2014, 07:02:30 PM »
I've had times during POIS when my ears would suddenly start to ring. I'm really liking this investigation into the vagus nerve possibly being involved. [not to be confused with the Vegas nerve, which is the nerve responsible for the urge to gamble. j/k]

Clycos

  • Guest
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1451 on: October 07, 2014, 03:20:25 AM »
Very nice post! Couldn?t have agreed any more

Vandemolen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 912
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1452 on: October 07, 2014, 10:50:47 AM »
In The Netherlands 1 man who has POIS is cured by THC drops. After two weeks of taking a few drops he has zero POIS! I tried it too. But for me it had only minor effects. I sleep better and I am less stressed.

Maybe it will work for you. But only take cannabis oil in states where it is legal!! In the US only in Colorada it's legal. In Europe only The Netherlands. UK and Belgium are talking about legalizing THC oil.

Take 3 or 4 drops in the morning and 4 or 5 before going to bed. You will not get high by this.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Vandemolen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 912
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1453 on: October 07, 2014, 10:52:25 AM »
I think a lot POIS patients have problems with the ears. That's because of inflamation of  the ears, throath and nose.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Vandemolen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 912
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1454 on: October 07, 2014, 10:55:05 AM »
I have inflamed tear duct because of POIS. I thought that I had sinusitis. But it always starts with inflamed tear duct. Then the nose, troath and forehead gets inflamed. And after a few days I get a pimple under my eye. That's the pus, not acne.
I read that they put a tube in the tear duct and that helps. Who has inflamed tear duct too?
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6362
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1455 on: October 07, 2014, 06:48:06 PM »


I'm really liking this investigation into the vagus nerve possibly being involved. [not to be confused with the Vegas nerve, which is the nerve responsible for the urge to gamble. j/k]


Prancer, yes!

If the POIS/Vagal Dystonia study achieves great success, Rutgers and/or NORD should treat us all to a night week in which we are all...

10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6362
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1456 on: October 07, 2014, 06:48:58 PM »

Re-posted

[When] we do find a cure I think

we won't have any excuses

not to become

very rich and meet on a secret island

every five years.  ;D



POISers' Secret Island Retreat
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Stef

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1457 on: October 07, 2014, 09:09:51 PM »
I don't know if anyone's seen the Verizon Math Fail video, but I just read .90 cents as .90 dollars and freaked out a bit. ????

Myers6609,

I finally took a look at that Math Fail video -- it's hilarious!!!!

Belated thank you for mentioning it. :-)

http://youtu.be/zN9LZ3ojnxY

Stef

demografx

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6362
  • All of us working together to defeat POIS!
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1458 on: October 07, 2014, 09:25:49 PM »
I don't know if anyone's seen the Verizon Math Fail video, but I just read .90 cents as .90 dollars and freaked out a bit. ????

Myers6609,

I finally took a look at that Math Fail video -- it's hilarious!!!!

Belated thank you for mentioning it. :-)

http://youtu.be/zN9LZ3ojnxY

Stef

Reminds me of all my tech/customer service calls!!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

FloppyBanana

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
Re: This may seem like a familiar place.
« Reply #1459 on: October 09, 2014, 02:09:02 AM »
Vagus Nerve Stimulator
http://www.cerbomed.com/transcutaneous-Vagus-Nerve-Stimulation-88.html
Anyone looking into transcutaneous Vagus Nerve Stimulation devices (tVNS) such as Nemos by Cerbomed should consider that this devices is simply an expensive TENS unit.  The 4000 dollar device is based off of studies that used a standard TENS unit($150 on Amazon) to stimulate the auricular branch of the vagus nerve distributed to the skin of the ear(Clancy et al., 2014).  This is simply done by placing the TENS electrode on the tragus of the ear.  The electrical signal given to participants was (200 microseconds @ 30 Hz).  Besides that fact that Nemos is expensive, it is also only approved in 3 European countries and is not available in the United States.  I think it is unlikely that our POIS study will use Nemos, most likely they will just be using a modified TENS unit that fits and stays on the tragus.

Although Cerbomed states that Nemos is safe(this is a non-invasive device), invasive surgically implantable vagus nerve stimulation devices have been associated with much higher rates of cardiac death.  Stimulating the vagus nerve causes a change in heart rate variability, this not recommended without supervision by a medical professional.

Anybody interested in learning more about TENS units to stimulate the Vagus nerve should read these articles:

1) University of Leeds. "'Tickling' your ear could be good for your heart." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 19 August 2014. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140819200211.htm>.

ANDS ALSO the original study below by Clancy et al. 2014

2) Jennifer A. Clancy, David A. Mary, Klaus K. Witte, John P. Greenwood, Susan A. Deuchars, Jim Deuchars. Non-invasive Vagus Nerve Stimulation in Healthy Humans Reduces Sympathetic Nerve Activity. Brain Stimulation, 2014; DOI: 10.1016/j.brs.2014.07.031
http://www.brainstimjrnl.com/article/S1935-861X%2814%2900260-5/abstract

Article by Dr. Lauracostis

Hi Dr L,

I am curious know how come you got a price in USD? That works out at about 2.5K GBP, ouch!

It seems your first link doesn't work for me so I repost this one:

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/news/article/3572/tickling_your_ear_could_be_good_for_your_heart

Thanks FloppyB
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.