Author Topic: Could POIS be hyperammonia?  (Read 729 times)

John21

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Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« on: May 22, 2022, 10:29:35 AM »
I am considering that POIS could be a temporary state of high level of ammonia. My recent success with mastic gum, etc included taking L-glutamine 5g  1x/day.  If I understand correctly, glutamine is involved in reducing high levels of ammonia from the body.
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While increased glutamine synthesis occurs in response to increased ammonia levels in the brain, hyperammonemia exceeds the brain?s capacity to synthesize glutamine, causing ammonia concentrations to rise significantly.


I find it interesting that there is a taurine connection. One common cause of high ammonia is liver disease. Here is a study stating that taurine can mitigate high ammonia levels in liver disease induced hyperammonia.
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The current investigation demonstrates that taurine is instrumental in preserving brain and liver mitochondrial function in a hyperammonemic environment. The data suggest taurine as a potential protective agent with a therapeutic capability against hepatic encephalopathy and hyperammonemia.


Other remedies that have worked against POIS like blueberries, garlic, etc. could be mitigating the neuroinflammation from a high ammonia state.

I don't have a hypothesis on how this high ammonia could possibly occur after orgasm but if so here are some possible supplements to try:

Carnosine
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Carnosine protects brain mitochondria under hyperammonemic conditions: Relevance to hepatic encephalopathy treatment

L-Ornithine
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Preliminary evidence suggests that ornithine supplementation can improve athletic performance by reducing elevated levels of ammonia.

Also of note there is a a drug called lactulose that is used to reduce the amount of ammonia in the blood. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 03:32:38 AM by John21 »

IronFeather

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2022, 11:00:47 AM »
No idea if this is relevant, but a few days ago I was googling around and reading medical research articles, trying to find an explanation for the weird muscle shaking I experience since my POIS worsened and exercise intolerance appeared out of the blue. The only thing I could find in medical literature, even though it's not the same symptom I experience, is called asterixis or flapping hand tremor, and is a symptom of liver disease for which the cause and mechanism can't be explained yet, but that is thought to be related to ammonia metabolism. This paragraph is from the Wikipedia article on asterixis:

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Unilateral asterixis may occur with structural brain disease. It can be a sign of hepatic encephalopathy, damage to brain cells presumably due to the inability of the liver to metabolize ammonia to urea. The cause is thought to be predominantly related to abnormal ammonia metabolism.

This rings some bells for me. I'm quite sure that the shaking I experience, and most of my exercise intolerance symptoms, are a nervous system issue. The way these symptoms appeared, and the fact that they have been consistent for the past two years with no improvement, make me think of an injury or damage to the nervous system, whether it's the brain, spine or nerve fibers.

I wonder how this hypothesis could be tested, any ideas? Also, ammonia levels increase during exercise, as is stated in this article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63139-9

I wonder if it could be the reason why people with POIS often are exercise intolerant or develop this intolerance at some point in their lives, like I did. I always wondered what the connection between sexual activity and exercise could be, maybe the answer lies in ammonia.

I also found this article very interesting:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030284813314

It mentions how hyperammonemia can create problems in glucose metabolism and insulin production. Well, when I'm experiencing POIS symptoms, I always feel very dizzy, clumsy and mentally slow in the mornings if I don't eat something sugary soon enough, and I can't wait more than an hour before having breakfast or I feel so weak, dizzy and hungry that even walking is an effort.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 11:41:06 AM by IronFeather »
26-year-old Spanish woman with POIS symptoms for the last 13 years.
Suffering from exercise intolerance since April 2020.
My case thread, with medical tests results.

John21

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2022, 04:34:40 PM »
IronFeather, interesting points. Your condition is quite severe, I'm really hoping you get to the bottom of what is going on. At least with many of us POIS is a temporary condition.  It has truly been horrible but you are suffering even more.  The body is quite complex but I run with the hope that the answer to the puzzle might be simple after all. Trying make sense of an unknown condition can be quite overwhelming. For many years I gave up on it and just resolved to stay chaste.  I don't come around here very often as thinking about it too much can drag me down.

Some people on the forum have theorized that SIBO could be a contributing factor to POIS. Here is a lady who had hyperammonia that caused swelling in the brain following surgery. SIBO is listed as a possible reason, along with low arginine.

Muon

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2022, 05:38:19 PM »
Look at her medical data, abnormal results. She had low urea (Should it not be high in Hyperammonia?). Acetone in urine was high 60 mg/dl (0-5). The latter can be elevated when you are on a ketodiet if I’m not mistaken. She also said she ate for two people. People complain of bad body odor, I wonder if these things are related. She is also skinny. Is the body unable to metabolize carbs properly leading to ketosis?

Doesn’t glutamine interfere with glycolysis?
Maybe POIS activates ketosis due to hypermetabolism.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 06:09:36 PM by Muon »

John21

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2022, 04:33:59 PM »
Look at her medical data, abnormal results. She had low urea (Should it not be high in Hyperammonia?). Acetone in urine was high 60 mg/dl (0-5). The latter can be elevated when you are on a ketodiet if I’m not mistaken. She also said she ate for two people. People complain of bad body odor, I wonder if these things are related. She is also skinny. Is the body unable to metabolize carbs properly leading to ketosis?

Doesn’t glutamine interfere with glycolysis?
Maybe POIS activates ketosis due to hypermetabolism.

I don't know. It's all very confusing.  :(

John21

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2022, 01:26:09 PM »
I have news.  First of all - my POIS has been minimal since my gut-related efforts (see Mastic Gum, etc). After this success I was perplexed when it resurfaced, although only in a small manner. After considering the idea of hyperammonia I decided to try a few different supplements and eventually I tried l-carnosine. Now something is totally eliminating my premature ejaculation! I think that PE is a common thing that many on this forum share so this might be very significant to others. Also, following O I had zero POIS symptoms. The first time I took one single 250mg capsule.  I found that the effect lasts for days and even builds up as time goes on.  It has a antidepressant-like effect on me in that I don't feel quite normal on it yet it is not entirely unpleasant. The second time I tried it I took half a capsule (by separating the powder) and it had a similar effect. Again, PE was completely gone and the effect lasted for days. It affects my sleep in that I am able to sleep better but perhaps the sleep is not as deep and refreshing.  I have no idea why this might be having this effect, the ammonia idea might be nowhere close to what is happening, but the effect is very profound. I have had severe PE for as long as I can remember! I have never been able to have what I would consider "normal" sex. I am wondering if in my early teens I messed up my development by masturbating too early and intensely, and that carnosine helps restore balance somehow. This is huge for me, I hope others can consider and perhaps benefit from it! It is possible that something else I have tried has made the difference but my best bet is the carnosine.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 05:03:27 AM by John21 »

demografx

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2022, 01:55:50 AM »
I have news.  First of all - my POIS has been minimal since my gut-related efforts (see Mastic Gum, etc). After this success I was perplexed when it resurfaced, although only in a small manner. After considering the idea of hyperammonia I decided to try a few different supplements and eventually I tried l-carnosine. It am confident that it totally eliminates premature ejaculation! I think that PE is a common thing that many on this forum share so this might be very significant to others. Also, following O I had zero POIS symptoms. The first time I took one single 250mg capsule.  I found that the effect lasts for days and even builds up as time goes on.  It has a antidepressant-like effect on me in that I don't feel quite normal on it yet it is not entirely unpleasant. The second time I tried it I took half a capsule (by separating the powder) and it had a similar effect. Again, PE was completely gone and the effect lasted for days. It affects my sleep in that I am able to sleep better but perhaps the sleep is not as deep and refreshing.  I have no idea why this might be having this effect, the ammonia idea might be nowhere close to what is happening, but the effect is very profound. I have had severe PE for as long as I can remember! I have never been able to have what I would consider "normal" sex. I am wondering if in my early teens I messed up my development by masturbating too early and intensely, and that carnosine helps restore balance somehow. This is huge for me, I hope others can consider and perhaps benefit from it!

Thanks, John!

Note: for those of you who aren’t aware, John21 was the very first poster at our predecessor forum, NSF/POIS, in February of 2007!
Demo
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 01:58:12 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

ozmoses

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2022, 11:05:52 PM »
Mastic gum is a common remedy for h pylori/gut dysbiosis related symptoms.  I've also noticed some benefit from mastic gum... also have tried some herbal antiparasitic stuff which seems to help. 

John21

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2022, 04:56:28 AM »
I should emphasize that I see carnosine as the most likely cause. I am not 100% definite as I have tried other things lately, time will tell.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 05:01:26 AM by John21 »

John21

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2022, 05:12:38 PM »
I tried it again and once again I had success. I took a half dose and after waiting more than 24 hours I had no PE. I'm thinking I should start a new thread because this may be nothing to do with high ammonia.

Mushnikk

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2022, 04:50:34 AM »
No PE and also no POIS symptoms?

John21

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2022, 04:25:14 PM »
No PE and also no POIS symptoms?
Correct

hapl

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2022, 06:58:56 PM »
No PE and also no POIS symptoms?
Correct

So are you just taking 250mg of L-Carnosine beforehand? I tried once with 500mg of NOW brand L-Carnosine, but maybe it needs to build up?

John21

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2022, 04:34:59 AM »
No PE and also no POIS symptoms?
Correct

So are you just taking 250mg of L-Carnosine beforehand? I tried once with 500mg of NOW brand L-Carnosine, but maybe it needs to build up?

I did find that it can take up to or over 24 hours to take full effect. I do find that 500mg is too much, makes me feel quite wired. I am experimenting stacking it with Acetyl-L-Carnitine and also L-Carnosine as per this.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 04:59:59 AM by John21 »

Muon

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2022, 01:04:53 PM »
Serum Ammonia
i had 2 tests with results of 169.00 umol/L and 187.00 umol/L Ref. 11.00-32.00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperammonemia
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 01:19:23 PM by Muon »

RemarkableNeck

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Re: Could POIS be hyperammonia?
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2022, 02:32:28 PM »
What does your diet look like? I've gone over the ammonia content of my diet, and foods which would spike ammonia blood levels seem to have no impact on my POIS (eggs, onions, etc). Ammonia is broken down by the liver and sent to your kidneys for expulsion which makes me think an excess of blood ammonia levels would indicate some kind of liver dysfunction.