Author Topic: POIS treatment: theory & supplement stack  (Read 347066 times)

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #460 on: March 15, 2019, 06:53:25 PM »
Hi Whateverestest,

  I also used to have social anxiety that occurred after sexual activity (during POIS). I did not associate it with POIS though. My symptoms are listed here (post). I do not see the benefit of focusing on individual symptoms. Symptoms correlate well with the location of a disease in the body, but they do not correlate well with actual causes of disease. For example, if someone gets:
(1) hit in the knee cap with a hammer or (2) develops cancer in the knee cap or (3) gets an infection in the knee cap, the symptoms will be mostly the same (pain in the knee, inflammation in the knee, immune cell activation in the knee, etc...). Even if there are some differences in symptoms, most of the symptoms will still be a function of the location in the body and not unique to an actual cause. So treating disease based on symptoms can be tricky. In my opinion, medical test give a more accurate tool for narrowing down potential causes and determining which treatments may be helpful (see medical test patterns post). 

  One way around this could be to seek the counsel of a professional psychiatrist. They may be able to perform test to determine why social anxiety occurs after sexual activity and give you options for treatment. Social anxiety can sometimes be caused by a depletion of GABA and dopamine. The depletion of certain neurotransmitters can occur after porn use.
This is what porn does to your dopamine levels.


While porn is being viewed, dopamine levels remain elevated. But when the porn goes off, dopamine tanks. It's called the Coolidge effect.

  In my case, stopping porn cured my orgasm-induced social anxiety, but it did not cure my POIS. I do not think that POIS is caused by porn addiction. People develop POIS even when there is no porn use, and your anxiety may have nothing to do with viewing pornography. But I think that porn addiction (a known cause of social anxiety, link1, link2) should be ruled out before experimenting with supplements and drugs. From my experience and from reading post by others, it seems that POIS can aggravate other unrelated diseases. There are many post on the forum where POISers have multiple unrelated diseases (i.e. fungal infection, food allergy, physical injury, general stress, etc...). Getting professional treatment for (or curing) the other diseases may also reduce some of the symptoms experienced during POIS, even if it does not cure or treat POIS directly.

  In general, I think that the best starting point for eliminating POIS symptoms is maintaining good health. This is not what most people want to hear but it is true. So healthy diet, drinking water, getting adequate sleep and reducing emotional stress. It wasn't until I started taking the POIS Cascade stack that I could exercise without getting sick, but now I exercise 2 to 3 times a week.

  The two stacks in the original post are independently focused on stopping the inflammatory cascade (arachidonic acid cascade) which I believe triggers POIS. These stacks do not treat symptoms, they only prevent symptoms. So waiting to take the Betaherpesvirinae stack after an orgasm will not help much. It has to be taken 2 hours before POIS is triggered to prevent the trigger from occurring. For me this also prevented all the symptoms. The instructions for each stack is very specific. And the timing and dosing information is important for the effectiveness of each stack (timing post).

Note: You should check with your medical doctor to make sure that these or other supplements do not interfere with any drugs you may be taking. Also check with your physician to see if any pre-existing health condition prevents you from taking these supplements/drugs.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 09:58:13 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

whateverestest

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #461 on: March 17, 2019, 06:10:59 PM »
Hi Whateverestest,

  I also used to have social anxiety that occurred after sexual activity (during POIS). I did not associate it with POIS though. My symptoms are listed here (post).

Did it just occure after sexual activity or orgasm? Did it just occure or last for the next days? Because in my case it lasts for 6-8 days after orgasm. And in my case I could have sex on and on as long as I didn't have orgasm (or come very very close to it, if that's possible:P) I wouldn't have any symptoms at all..

  In my case, stopping porn cured my orgasm-induced social anxiety, but it did not cure my POIS. I do not think that POIS is caused by porn addiction. People develop POIS even when there is no porn use, and your anxiety may have nothing to do with viewing pornography. But I think that porn addiction (a known cause of social anxiety, link1, link2) should be ruled out before experimenting with supplements and drugs.

In my case it didn't. I still will have anxiety even after NE. Currently I technically don't watch porn. It sometimes happens though, but only cause I developed some kind of IMO, "obsesive-compulsive-like behaviour" that after having orgasm I masturbate 1-2 more times. Don't ask me why, maybe it's partially because that relieves me from the tension (and fear of next days) caused by previous Orgasm, maybe it's an excuse that I keep giving myself "if I'm gonna feel bad anyways...".

But anyways. I drastically reduced watching porn quite some time ago (just because of my point of view on that matter), and that didn't help. Mostly I get orgasm from NE or when by myself, (no porn) and that triggers anxiety as well.

Symptoms correlate well with the location of a disease in the body, but they do not correlate well with actual causes of disease. For example, if someone gets:
(1) hit in the knee cap with a hammer or (2) develops cancer in the knee cap or (3) gets an infection in the knee cap, the symptoms will be mostly the same (pain in the knee, inflammation in the knee, immune cell activation in the knee, etc...). Even if there are some differences in symptoms, most of the symptoms will still be a function of the location in the body and not unique to an actual cause.

That brings me hope that there actually is a point in testing stacks that people and you suggest here and there even if my POIS symptoms vary drastically. I will continue trying. Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 06:14:07 PM by whateverestest »

dizzy

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #462 on: March 18, 2019, 02:57:17 PM »
Regarding porn, masturbation and the connection with anxiety, perhaps this (long) story can provide some guidance:

https://101nootropics.com/nofap-benefits-and-advice/
Male, INTJ. POIS symptoms: red eyes, ear-pain, anxiety, speech problems, pale/ugly skin, stiff neck, double chin, tinnitus, light sensitivity. POIS even after stimulation without O.

Alessandro84

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #463 on: April 23, 2019, 09:42:21 AM »
Hi everybody,
I'm Italian, so for me it's very difficult to explain...
I've tried many times to register and finally I have done.

nanna1, your theory is very interesting but I can't understand the red line to xanthine oxidase.
I ask you because I have high serum uric acid, and I have always wondered if there was a link with POIS, since I haven't read nothing about uric acid in this forum.
Thank you!

Alessandro84

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #464 on: April 24, 2019, 05:11:41 AM »
I also add some details...

I think that POIS is only a symptom of a problem.
I say this because I have POIS symptoms also if I abstain from sex and if I'm stressed or do exercise (as I also read here), even if to a much lesser degree...

For me, and I don't know if you have already discussed, there are some important point:

1. In your stack there is a big use of B vitamins. I use them and feel a big improvement BUT after some day of use I feel very irritability and anxious (it's a tipe of anxiety different from that of POIS). I don't know what vitamin create this problem, I can only tell that my B12 is always correct in my exams, also homocysteine.
Same effect derives from the use of tryptophan and zinc, I have bad nightmares from them (after some day of use, though)

2. From my last fatty acids test, I have normal omega 3 even if I don't eat fish. The deficient one is omega 6 LA and GLA, which I read are very important for PGE1 formation. Can POIS be a PGE1 deficiency that also create imbalance with PGE2? I haven't read in your stack the use of Borrage or Evening primrose which can be beneficial (mine is only an hypothesis)
The symptoms that link my problem with GLA (which is beneficial for) are:
-seborrheic dermatitis, eczema and atopic dermatitis
-dry eyes
-bleeding gum
-migraine
Does anybody have these symptoms?
Omega 3 will increase only PGE3, not PGE1

3. I have, as I said, elevated uric acid. There are my values:
-7,6 mg/ dL [3,5 - 7,2]          June 2018
-8,0 mg/ dL [3,5 - 7,2]          February 2019
Since Xanthine Oxidase of your theory is an enzyme that produces uric acid, what is the relation with POIS in your theory?

4. In addition to POIS, I have:
- neck and back stiffness
- vision problems like visual snow and object trails (especially at night)
- muscle spams
- migraine
- anxiety even if I abstain from sex
The anxiety is very high since I don't know if my symptoms are linked only with anxiety (and POIS) or something else...

Finally, two very big problems:
DIGESTION
I feel like I cannot digest food. After 30 minutes from meal, I feel bloated and have flashes. After 3-4 hours I have to belch and sometime this happen also at night with a little bit of tachycardia.
EXERCISE and STRESS
I can't exercise or stand the minimum stress since I start to sweat and if this happen I have panic attacks, fatigue and impaired digestion for days.
When you said the exercise cause you problems, do you find any correlation with mine?

One last question, what does b. f. stand for?

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #465 on: April 24, 2019, 10:25:30 AM »
Brain Fog. Thanks for posting Allesandro84
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #466 on: April 24, 2019, 06:59:03 PM »
Hi Alessandro84,

I think that POIS is only a symptom of a problem.
I say this because I have POIS symptoms also if I abstain from sex and if I'm stressed or do exercise (as I also read here), even if to a much lesser degree...
  I agree with this. POIS-like symptoms can be caused by other stressful activities (see medical test patterns: non-arousal triggers for POIS-like symptoms). I think that "The Cause" of POIS can also cause other diseases. I gave a hypothesis for a possible cause here (POIS as a location-specific herpes infection). There is also a literature review of possible causes that others have proposed here (POIS literature review)

1. In your stack there is a big use of B vitamins. I use them and feel a big improvement BUT after some day of use I feel very irritability and anxious (it's a type of anxiety different from that of POIS). I don't know what vitamin create this problem, I can only tell that my B12 is always correct in my exams, also homocysteine.
Same effect derives from the use of tryptophan and zinc, I have bad nightmares from them (after some day of use, though)
I agree that POIS is not caused by under-methylation"
  methylation
--3 of us have normal folate levels (certainlypois2, quotz, BluesBrother)
--3 of us have normal homocysteine levels (BluesBrother, nanna1, jakov).
  But a slight over-methylation appears to provide some benefit. I do not know how that benefit occurs. It could be through a repression of the arachidonic acid (inflammatory) cascade or a decrease in DNA replication. But these are guesses. The irritability/anxiety/nightmares may be from an increase in neurotransmitters (i.e. serotonin). From my experience, Alpha-GPC generally produces better neurotransmitter balance than most methyl-donors.

2. From my last fatty acids test, I have normal omega 3 even if I don't eat fish. The deficient one is omega 6 LA and GLA, which I read are very important for PGE1 formation. Can POIS be a PGE1 deficiency that also create imbalance with PGE2? I haven't read in your stack the use of Borrage or Evening primrose which can be beneficial (mine is only an hypothesis)
The symptoms that link my problem with GLA (which is beneficial for) are:
  Thanks for sharing your test info! For the hypothesis that I proposed, the key is to lower arachidonic acid (but not all omega 6). Plants produce omega 6 (LA and GLA) but they do not produce arachidonic acid (AA). The body cannot produce (from LA) any where near the amount of AA that you absorb from meat. So most of the AA in the body of omnivores comes from meat consumption through the stomach. If you are sensitive to AA, them your stomach might tell you. Once AA has been removed from the diet, then omega-3s can replace AA (see omega-3 post). I do not know how the ratios of different prostaglandins are balanced. That is beyond my current understanding, but your ideas about PGE1:PGE2:PGE3 seem interesting  :)

-seborrheic dermatitis, eczema and atopic dermatitis
  Whenever I had skin problems like these (not often), I would use tea tree oil or bergamot oil applied topically to the skin. Initially, they will irritate the top layer of the skin. But most of what this is is exfoliation of dead, stressed or infected skin. For me, after the top skin layer exfoliated, the skin irritation went away and they started having a cooling/anti-inflammatory type effect (less bumps, itch and pains). These two essential oils are milder than most and have anti-viral and anti-bacterial (antiseptic) properties. Some oils like cinnamon or oregano cannot be applied to the skin without incurring chemical burns. For any essential oil, keep them away from your eyes and avoid rinsing with water because that increases the irritation and exfoliation.

3. I have, as I said, elevated uric acid. There are my values:
-7,6 mg/ dL [3,5 - 7,2]          June 2018
-8,0 mg/ dL [3,5 - 7,2]          February 2019
Since Xanthine Oxidase of your theory is an enzyme that produces uric acid, what is the relation with POIS in your theory?
  Outside of the mitochondria, Xanthine Oxidase is the main producer of superoxide O2-. And superoxide is a cofactor for most (if not all) inflammatory/oxidative enzymes (see Inflammation and disease).
  XO is also responsible for converting DNA base acids (adenine, base-A, and guanine, base-G) into uric acid. This depletes the pool of bases needed for DNA and RNA replication. So the immune system can up-regulate XO to stop pathogens from replicating their DNA within the cell. However, this up-regulation of XO is still a highly destructive and inflammatory situation.

4. In addition to POIS, I have:
- neck and back stiffness
- vision problems like visual snow and object trails (especially at night)
- muscle spams
- migraine
- anxiety even if I abstain from sex...
...Finally, two very big problems:
DIGESTION
I feel like I cannot digest food. After 30 minutes from meal, I feel bloated and have flashes. After 3-4 hours I have to belch and sometime this happen also at night with a little bit of tachycardia.
EXERCISE and STRESS
I can't exercise or stand the minimum stress since I start to sweat and if this happen I have panic attacks, fatigue and impaired digestion for days.
When you said the exercise cause you problems, do you find any correlation with mine?
  I've had all these problems prior to finding relief from my stack. But instead of migraines, I had hemicrania continua, tension headaches and post-coital headaches. But I think as my immune system improved, the exercise/muscle related symptoms and vision problems went away. I am now a big fan of boosting the immune system through diet, sleep, supplements, etc... I think the anxiety and irritability I had was partly related to porn use and the resultant dopamine depletion. When I stopped porn, those symptoms slowly disappeared. Others may experience anxiety and/or irritability for non-porn reasons like genetics or brain infections. So each person is different.
  Let me know if you have questions, comments or new ideas. I am always willing to learn.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 12:33:18 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #467 on: April 24, 2019, 07:51:47 PM »
Thanks, nanna1!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Iwillbeatthis

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #468 on: April 25, 2019, 07:18:50 AM »
Hi Nanna

I have some personal questions about the stack. Would greatly appreciate it if you could answer them.

1. When I added methylfolate I get brain fog symptoms and pressure on both sides of my head should I try normal folic acid or just leave it out?  I have low folate in my bloods.

2. I have tried your stack in the past but have stopped due to getting intense anger from the alpha gpc. And before I started taking it I was very emotionally numb with no anger what so ever.

3. The stack also seems to make my brain fog after either hot or cold showers a lot worse than usual

4. After a few days after taking alpha gpc I wake up early in the mornings with bad lower abdominal bladder/intestinal pain and needing to pee badly, after reading what you've said in here I reckon maybe I have some type of damage to blood vessels in my lower abdomen pelvic area. My veins in the area also darken a lot after taking the stack. I know that people who have Urinary urgency  take anti cholinergic to stop that urgency.

5. I missed out  CLA  by accident is this an important part of the stack?


Iwillbeatthis

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #469 on: April 25, 2019, 08:44:34 AM »
1 more thing I think the sam e makes me a little foggy, less sociable and more awkward but I need to test this further and the same thing happens when I have too much alpha gpc - 300mg seems to work better than 600mg. Also I know this isn't that relevant but why does my sam e  smell like you haven't washed your balls for a week. Do they all smell like that lol or did I just buy from a bad supplier.

Currently it seems to work best with b12 100mcg, b6 10mcg, alpha gpc3/600, vitamin d3 1000iu and fish oil. I know folate and sam e are an important part of the cycle so I'm not sure why they seem to make things worse.



Iwillbeatthis

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #470 on: April 25, 2019, 09:20:53 AM »
Yes speech problems 100% start when sam e is added - maybe i will try with 100mg instead of 200mg and if still bad then I will stop sam e.

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #471 on: April 25, 2019, 12:21:45 PM »
Thanks for posting, IWBT
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #472 on: May 02, 2019, 01:32:39 AM »
4. After a few days after taking alpha gpc I wake up early in the mornings with bad lower abdominal bladder/intestinal pain and needing to pee badly, after reading what you've said in here I reckon maybe I have some type of damage to blood vessels in my lower abdomen pelvic area. My veins in the area also darken a lot after taking the stack. I know that people who have Urinary urgency  take anti cholinergic to stop that urgency.
Hi Iwillbeatthis,

  Sorry for the late reply. Several of the symptoms you mention (waking up early, brain fog) could be due to taking the methyl donors too late in the evening. If you take SAMe-methylfolate-alphaGPC within 6 hours of your normal bedtime, they could disturb your sleep quality (shorten sleep time). This is because these methyl donors increase neurotransmitters like acetylcholine, dopamine, noreadrenaline... Needing to pee could also be a result of excess norepinephrine (NORE) production during sleep since NORE can contract the bladder and other smooth muscles like the intestinal walls. Sometimes when I have an orgasm, that will put me to sleep independent of when I take the methyl donors. You can take 5-HTP to offset the sleep disturbing effect, but I would just take the methyl donors earlier in the day so that you get good sleep. Taking the methyl donors in the morning (and afternoon) actually helps my sleep probably because of the increased serotonin. There could be other non-POIS things affecting the way the methyl donors are affecting you, but my guess is that taking them too late in the day is disturbing your sleep and causing an increase in neurotransmitters during sleep. Poor sleep produces other side-effects. I could be wrong, so listen to your body and do what is best for you.   ;)

5. I missed out  CLA  by accident is this an important part of the stack?
  CLA seems to have a synergistic effect with omega-3. I can take less omega-3 when I take CLA. But my guess is that they work together to reduce omega-6 arachidonic acid (AA). Taking CLA and omega-3 (1), reducing AA consumption from food (2) and blocking COX (3) are all ways of preventing excess PGE2 formation. The goal is to reduce PGE2. Let me know if this answered your question or if you have other comments.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 01:47:17 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

swell

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #473 on: May 02, 2019, 03:00:10 AM »
Iwillbeatthis, these are just my opinions, from what you mention is indicating that you have an auto-immune thyroid disorder.  While SamE is the sweetest anti-depressant for me (since I'm hypothyroid suspect) you seem to switch between hypo and hyper thyroid states.  During a hyper state, thyroid increases sensitivity of catechlomines, sensitivity to heat etc while in hypo-state you get reduced sensitivity to catechlomines, increased sensitivity to cold etc.  So my point is, for a person swinging into hyper, SamE will make your situation worse i.e. bouts of excessive dopamine.  I would suggest an Endocrinologist and get  a full thyroid panel that includes Thyroid antibodies panel, free T3, Reverse T3.  The samE I used was smell neutral so it could be the formulation you purchased.  You might also want to discuss PABA with your doc since you have trouble with folate.  Question: Do you have frequent white film or lesions on any part of your mucosa, oral epithelium, tongue etc?

Hi Nanna

I have some personal questions about the stack. Would greatly appreciate it if you could answer them.

1. When I added methylfolate I get brain fog symptoms and pressure on both sides of my head should I try normal folic acid or just leave it out?  I have low folate in my bloods.

2. I have tried your stack in the past but have stopped due to getting intense anger from the alpha gpc. And before I started taking it I was very emotionally numb with no anger what so ever.

3. The stack also seems to make my brain fog after either hot or cold showers a lot worse than usual

4. After a few days after taking alpha gpc I wake up early in the mornings with bad lower abdominal bladder/intestinal pain and needing to pee badly, after reading what you've said in here I reckon maybe I have some type of damage to blood vessels in my lower abdomen pelvic area. My veins in the area also darken a lot after taking the stack. I know that people who have Urinary urgency  take anti cholinergic to stop that urgency.

5. I missed out  CLA  by accident is this an important part of the stack?
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #474 on: May 03, 2019, 02:43:46 PM »
Thanks, nanna & swell!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #475 on: May 06, 2019, 07:35:56 AM »
POIS is most likely a mast cell activation disorder

Mast cells are primitive cells of the immune system which act as “sentinels,” present in all tissues but standing guard most prominently at the body's environmental interfaces, e.g. the skin, the gastrointestinal tract, the respiratory tract and the genitourinary tract. Unlike lymphocytes, which have great specificity, mast cells use non-specific chemical mediators as their dominant mechanism of attack against foreign invaders (e.g. parasites). More than 200 different mast cell mediators have been identified, including histamine, tryptase, heparin, prostaglandins and leukotrienes.

Unlike allergies, which involve specific IgE-mediated activation of mast cells, mast cells in MCAS are activated inappropriately by specific and non-specific triggers, such as positive or negative emotional or physical stress, extremes of temperature or temperature or barometric pressure change, environmental chemicals, alcohol, high histamine foods, odors, physical stimuli (e.g. pressure from a tourniquet), drugs, and the non-drug ingredients (excipients) in medication products. Since mast cells are present in all organs, and since their chemical mediators enter the bloodstream, inappropriate mast cell activation can produce a large number of signs and symptoms that may vary and occur in a fluctuating pattern, often creating a complex clinical picture. Like most diseases, MCAS exists on a spectrum, ranging from very mild to extremely severe, and it has been estimated to affect up to 17% of the population.

Symptoms of MCAS may be acute and/or chronic. Skin flushing, itching, fleeting rashes and hives are very common, but not all patients have grossly obvious cutaneous manifestations. Other common symptoms include bone, muscle, joint and/or neuropathic pain; paresthesias; gastroesophageal reflux; abdominal pain; nausea/vomiting; bowel motility issues (gastroparesis and/or diarrhea alternating with constipation), presyncope/syncope, heart rate and/or blood pressure lability, chest pain, dyspnea (often subtle, typically described as an occasional brief inability to take a deep breath), unexplained weight loss or gain (which may be significant), anxiety, depression, mood lability, cognitive dysfunction, sleep disturbance, lethargy, fatigue, malaise, fevers, night sweats, headache and vertigo. Many patients experience mast cell “flares” or “spells,” but more severely affected patients also have chronic symptoms due to constitutive mediator release aside from mediator release related to aberrant reactivity. Prior to adulthood, patients with MCAS often initially enjoy symptom-free intervals interspersed amongst symptomatic periods. Over time, symptom-free intervals shorten, and finally symptoms become chronic with an intensity which fluctuates, but with an overall trend toward steadily increasing severity. An increase in disease severity often follows major stress. Mast cells are also intimately involved in growth regulation.

Patients with MCAS have often experienced a lifetime of multi-system unwellness with broad themes of inflammation, allergy, and disordered growth. For most MCAS patients, signs of the disease first emerge in childhood (median age at symptom onset is 9 years), but there is an average delay in diagnosis of MCAS of 30 years In one evolving model, MCAS increasingly is being suspected to arise proximately from mutations in one or more mast cell regulatory genes, and these mutations – usually somatic, heterozygous, and multiple – themselves likely emerge due to complex interactions among other mutations which are germline (i.e., inborn) and both genetic and epigenetic6, 7. Stressor-induced cytokine storms, too, may significantly impact these interactions and the development of the consequent somatic mutations (that is, mutations which are acquired, not inborn, but often beginning relatively early in life). MCAS may also occur secondary to an underlying allergic, infectious, immunodeficiency or an autoimmune disorder.

Most of the pois treatment prepacks work  largely by blocking the mast cell activaton or histamine release.

Niacin
http://getwellstaywellathome.com/blog/2015/06/seasonal-allergies-and-the-niacin-flush/

Taurine
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28694089

TRT
https://journals.aace.com/doi/pdf/10.4158/EP161530.CR

Relief with Antihistamines, flavanoids in fenugreek&garlic, oral corticosteroids ,methylation support,pre-pack with  IDO/TDO/NMDAr blockers+ anti-oxidants and gluten free diet etc  all point to mast cell activation disorder.

Most of our members get relief with one of the above mentioned ways which also fits with MCAD where everyone has individual triggers and get relief with personalised treatment.

So POIS  is most likely to be MCAD triggered by mast cells present in the urinary tract and causing systemic inflammation which many a time crosses blood brain barrier and results in neural inflammation.




Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #476 on: May 06, 2019, 08:54:22 AM »
I also thought that Aswinpras, but then I tried almost all methods to block histamine release and stabilize Mast Cells. MCAD is most definitely not the cause of my POIS.

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #477 on: May 07, 2019, 12:05:51 AM »
I also thought that Aswinpras, but then I tried almost all methods to block histamine release and stabilize Mast Cells. MCAD is most definitely not the cause of my POIS.

Hi Nas

Mast cell activation disorders are very hard to treat as per my Pulmonologist when I asked him about it during my last consultation.  New drugs and treatments are very expensive and still under experimental stage according to him.

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #478 on: May 07, 2019, 06:12:46 AM »
Hi Nas

Mast cell activation disorders are very hard to treat as per my Pulmonologist when I asked him about it during my last consultation.  New drugs and treatments are very expensive and still under experimental stage according to him.
I agree and I went into deep investigation on MCAS and I even joined a MCAS community and after following different treatment choices and talking to many MCAS sufferers I was convinced that I don't have MCAS. I can go into more detail if you want to know how I reached this conclusion if you want.

aswinpras06

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #479 on: May 07, 2019, 07:35:17 AM »
Hi Nas

Mast cell activation disorders are very hard to treat as per my Pulmonologist when I asked him about it during my last consultation.  New drugs and treatments are very expensive and still under experimental stage according to him.
I agree and I went into deep investigation on MCAS and I even joined a MCAS community and after following different treatment choices and talking to many MCAS sufferers I was convinced that I don't have MCAS. I can go into more detail if you want to know how I reached this conclusion if you want.

Nas just now I've read your trigger for POIS  from your earlier posts

"True, perhaps there are different types of POIS, but I can assure you that beside cigarettes, arousal and ejaculation are the only triggers for me. And urethritis and potentially prostatitis are observed after ejaculation in my case. So at least for me, it's looking closer to an autoimmune reaction."

I am not a medical person so I cannot provide you any scientific explanation.  So I am just providing my views on your triggers. 

Cigarette smoke can trigger MCAS in the respiratory tract for susceptible people and it is well documented.  Arousal itself can cause some fluid build up in the urinary tract and can very well activate the mast cells even without ejaculation.

If you've taken treatment for MCAS  from a allergist/immunologist and still did not get any relief  then it has to be some other problem.

Also note that MCAS are notoriously difficult to treat unless correct medications are given.  Even the excipients in a tablet can cause mast cell problems and so extreme care is essential while treating Mast cell activation disorders.