Author Topic: POIS treatment: theory & supplement stack  (Read 317877 times)

Vandemolen

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #420 on: December 15, 2018, 06:16:14 PM »

...going on a holiday to Dubai...


Have a nice, POIS-free visit!
Thanks. I have been there a few months ago. It was POIS-free holiday because I abstained. But I was not feeling wel a few days. Back then I did not know why, but now I know it was candida.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Vandemolen

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #421 on: December 15, 2018, 06:18:14 PM »
Hey Nas,
Paracetamol works within 2 hours but the current issue for me is that it has become less effective over time. I suspect that I have high levels of prostaglandin due to vitamin d deficiency but I can't tolerate vitamin d and it could be that I also have VDR (vitamin d receptor) issue from the genetic testing. Not sure if there any relations and dont have knowledge on them so I can't comment. They are,

VDR TAQ +/-
VDR BMS +/-

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Have you also try vitamin d?
Hey Itsme
Yeah I did but I also tried it with other stuff so I'm not sure if it works at all. Vitamin D is a mast cell stablizer so I might visit it again, plus it can be found anywhere so its less of a pain to buy.
In fact, I might do a test to see if I'm deficient. I very much doubt it since I live in the hottest spot on earth so there aren't really any lack of vitamin d in my environment.
Before going on a holiday to Dubai I googled a bit and came out at this article that says that 90% of the Dubai population has a vitamin D defiency. I know that in Dubai they spend a lot of time inside in malls and airconditioned areas. My point is that it depends on your lifestyle. If you live in The Netherlands like me and you go outside a lot your vitamin D will be ok. And if you live in Dubai and you spend the most of your time indoors then your vitamin D will not be ok.

I had a vitamin D level of 16 and I go a few times in a year on holidays to the sun. Only 50.000IE a week helped to raise my level. Now it is 160.

https://gulfnews.com/going-out/society/90-of-uae-population-vitamin-d-deficient-says-dha-official-1.2113556
Perhaps but I used to go alot outside before POIS. In fact I developed my tan skin color because of the amount I spent outside. I was very extroverted before POIS.
Well then maybe your vitamin D level is ok. But if you are planning to do a bloodtest for something else it would be an idea to check your vitamin D too. Some people do get a lot of sun, but their body can not manage it. I can not remember the medicial term.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

itsmel

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #422 on: December 15, 2018, 06:29:48 PM »
Hey Nas,
Paracetamol works within 2 hours but the current issue for me is that it has become less effective over time. I suspect that I have high levels of prostaglandin due to vitamin d deficiency but I can't tolerate vitamin d and it could be that I also have VDR (vitamin d receptor) issue from the genetic testing. Not sure if there any relations and dont have knowledge on them so I can't comment. They are,

VDR TAQ +/-
VDR BMS +/-

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Have you also try vitamin d?
Hey Itsme
Yeah I did but I also tried it with other stuff so I'm not sure if it works at all. Vitamin D is a mast cell stablizer so I might visit it again, plus it can be found anywhere so its less of a pain to buy.
In fact, I might do a test to see if I'm deficient. I very much doubt it since I live in the hottest spot on earth so there aren't really any lack of vitamin d in my environment.

It would be a good ideal with a vitamin d test, at least it can tell you what is your base line and plan from there. I read that the only time you can make vitamin d depends where you live and the sun position between 10-3. During the summer time the only time I would get sun light is walking to the subway station to work so basically it would be rare for me to get enough sunlight to probably make any difference.

Btw, did you get any side effects from taking celebrex?

itsmel

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #423 on: December 15, 2018, 06:32:11 PM »
Hey Nas,
Paracetamol works within 2 hours but the current issue for me is that it has become less effective over time. I suspect that I have high levels of prostaglandin due to vitamin d deficiency but I can't tolerate vitamin d and it could be that I also have VDR (vitamin d receptor) issue from the genetic testing. Not sure if there any relations and dont have knowledge on them so I can't comment. They are,

VDR TAQ +/-
VDR BMS +/-

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Have you also try vitamin d?
Hey Itsme
Yeah I did but I also tried it with other stuff so I'm not sure if it works at all. Vitamin D is a mast cell stablizer so I might visit it again, plus it can be found anywhere so its less of a pain to buy.
In fact, I might do a test to see if I'm deficient. I very much doubt it since I live in the hottest spot on earth so there aren't really any lack of vitamin d in my environment.
Before going on a holiday to Dubai I googled a bit and came out at this article that says that 90% of the Dubai population has a vitamin D defiency. I know that in Dubai they spend a lot of time inside in malls and airconditioned areas. My point is that it depends on your lifestyle. If you live in The Netherlands like me and you go outside a lot your vitamin D will be ok. And if you live in Dubai and you spend the most of your time indoors then your vitamin D will not be ok.

I had a vitamin D level of 16 and I go a few times in a year on holidays to the sun. Only 50.000IE a week helped to raise my level. Now it is 160.

https://gulfnews.com/going-out/society/90-of-uae-population-vitamin-d-deficient-says-dha-official-1.2113556

Yes and also depends on the sun position and your location. Generally we want to have the sun at the highest altitude to receive optimal vitamin d which I think it was 10-3 but that's like when everyone is working indoors like me.

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #424 on: December 15, 2018, 07:11:38 PM »
Hey Nas,
Paracetamol works within 2 hours but the current issue for me is that it has become less effective over time. I suspect that I have high levels of prostaglandin due to vitamin d deficiency but I can't tolerate vitamin d and it could be that I also have VDR (vitamin d receptor) issue from the genetic testing. Not sure if there any relations and dont have knowledge on them so I can't comment. They are,

VDR TAQ +/-
VDR BMS +/-

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Have you also try vitamin d?
Hey Itsme
Yeah I did but I also tried it with other stuff so I'm not sure if it works at all. Vitamin D is a mast cell stablizer so I might visit it again, plus it can be found anywhere so its less of a pain to buy.
In fact, I might do a test to see if I'm deficient. I very much doubt it since I live in the hottest spot on earth so there aren't really any lack of vitamin d in my environment.

It would be a good ideal with a vitamin d test, at least it can tell you what is your base line and plan from there. I read that the only time you can make vitamin d depends where you live and the sun position between 10-3. During the summer time the only time I would get sun light is walking to the subway station to work so basically it would be rare for me to get enough sunlight to probably make any difference.

Btw, did you get any side effects from taking celebrex?
No not really. I took it for five days and I didn't really feel anything changing.

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #425 on: December 22, 2018, 12:24:53 PM »
  I saw some post here and other threads about COX inhibitors and Tylenol (a.k.a. acetaminophen or paracetamol) and wanted to try to advance the conversation a little. This post is only for POISers who are taking prepacks or pharmaceutical drugs Nothing that I say here can substitute for treatment by a personal physician.
Excedrin (acetaminophen, aspirin, caffeine) is a drug combination that is FDA approved (in the USA) to treat migraines and is an over-the-counter (OTC) drug. These three drugs taken together are synergetic and more effective together than if they are taken individually. Some POISers try the drugs one-at-a-time (like trying only acetaminophen) to see if it works before stacking the other drugs. Trying the drugs one-at-a-time will not be effective at stopping POIS. From my experience and from what other POISers have said, trying the drugs individually will result in you taking more doses over longer periods of time. More doses lead to more side-effects. Taking the 3-drug combination (Excedrin) can help prevent POIS with one dose (this means less drugs and fewer side-effects).
Excedrin:
  • caffeine: PDE(1,4,5) inhibitor, adenylyl cyclase inhibitor, NF-kB downregulator, vasocontrictor (through adenosine receptor)
  • aspirin: antioxidant, COX inhibitor, vasoconstrictor (through PGE2 downregulation)
  • acetaminophen: cannabinoid reuptake inhibitor, NF-kB downregulator
  My first trial of Excedrin is discussed here. In my tests of Excedrin, I found that the drug is most effective when timed before the orgasm. I made the concept figure below to explain why I believe timing is very important:
  Acetaminophen, aspirin, caffeine have similar timing pharmacokinetics. After you start (tstart) the Excedrin dose, the blood concentration peaks (tmax) at about 90 min. Then there is roughly a 2 hour window (t1/2) when it is safe to orgasm. The reason for waiting until after tmax is that absorption of the drug from the blood stream into the cells usually lags behind in time by about 30min. Below are more accurate plasma time-points graphs for Tylenol (Acetaminophen). Note that it takes longer for Acetaminophen to cross the blood-brain-barrier (BBB)(see Mean Cerebrospinal Fluid Values| right graph):
Figure from: The Role of Intravenous Acetaminophen in Multimodal Pain Protocols for Perioperative Orthopedic Patients (P. LACHIEWICZ, 2013)
  When you time the drug(s) properly, they are more effective at stopping the arachidonic acid cascade. And when the drug is more effective, you can take less of the drug and experience fewer side-effects. If you do not time the drugs properly, they will be less effective and you will have to take more of the drugs to experience relief (more-drugs = more-side-effects). So the timing is a safety issue just as much as it is a POIS-relief issue.
  There are several differences between migraines and POIS. So I did a few (about nine) modified-Excedrin trials which resulted in the Beta-herpes virus stack. This stack is customized more for POIS rather than for migraines. In the Beta-herpes virus stack, I basically replaced aspirin with indomethacin and added vitamin D3. Selenium and N-acetylcysteine were added as detox antioxidants to boost glutathione (Ref). For me, this stack was 100% effective with a single dose, and it was more effective at preventing POIS than Excedrin.
Indomethacin (oral, 50mg) (tmax = 2 hours, t1/2 = 4 hours):
Figure from: TIVORBEX (indomethacin): The first low-dose SoluMatrix indomethacin. (blood-plasma time points)

  More indomethacin trials/experiences from other POISers can be found here. In theory, the COX inhibitor Diclofenac is the best COX inhibitor for POIS. It is a better COX-2 inhibitor than indomethacin (see post) and has better BBB penetration. However, I have never tried Diclofenac. So I do not know whether it works in practice.
Diclofenac (oral, 50mg) (tmax = 90min, t1/2 = 80 min):
Figure from: DYLOJECT ACHIEVES CMAX 5 TO 7 TIMES ORAL IMMEDIATE-RELEASE (IR) DICLOFENAC

  Celebrex is not a good prepack drug since it has to be taken long-term. With that said, no COX-inhibitor can prevent POIS on its own. With that said, from my trials of the Excedrin and alternative COX-inhibitors, it seemed that I needed a COX-inhibitor and a NF-kB inhibitor to prevent POIS. Taking only COX inhibitors or taking only NF-kB inhibitors did not work no matter how high the dose was. But I must reiterate, for any drug you try, the only way to know if it works or not is to have the right timing and therapudic dose information.

Please consult your doctor to make sure that these drugs are safe for you. Also make sure that any other medications you may be taking do not interact negatively with COX inhibitors, cannabinoids or caffeine before trying the Beta-herpes Virus Stack.

Some additional plasma time-point graphs are shown below for other popular supplements:

N-Acetylcysteine (tmax = 2 hours, t1/2 = 18 hours):

Figure from: Effervescent N-Acetylcysteine Tablets versus Oral Solution N-Acetylcysteine in Fasting Healthy Adults: An Open-Label, Randomized, Single-Dose, Crossover, Relative Bioavailability Study (SC Green, et. al., 2016)

Tri-methyl-glycine (betain, TMG) (tmax = 55 min, t1/2 = 14 hours):

Figure from: Pharmacokinetics of oral betaine in healthy subjects and patients with homocystinuria (BC Schwahn, et. al., 2003)

Taurine (tmax = 2 hours, t1/2 = 1 hour):

Pharmacokinetics of Oral Taurine in Healthy Volunteers (M Ghandforoush-Sattari, et. al., 2010)

Vitamin C (ascorbate, oral 1.25g) (tmax = 2 hours, t1/2 = 7 hour):
Vitamin C pharmacokinetics:
Fig. from: "Vitamin C pharmacokinetics: implications for oral and intravenous use", Ann Intern Med. 2004 (Ref) (click figure to show full resolution)

Nicotinic acid (flush niacin) (tmax = 4 hours, t1/2 = 2 hours):

Figure from: Niacin and fibrates in atherogenic dyslipidemia: Pharmacotherapy to reduce cardiovascular risk (MJ Chapman, 2010)

*Update: I added the timing (90min) and dosage (50mg) information for Diclofenac to satisfy a concern that Muon had.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 04:02:22 PM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Muon

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #426 on: December 22, 2018, 01:04:59 PM »
In theory, the COX inhibitor Diclofenac is the best COX inhibitor for POIS.

Then I must disappoint you and the community. Waldinger has done a pilot study with Diclofenac. Patients took 25 mg Diclofenac 2 hours before sexual activity. He did not translate this into an official study due to insufficient results. A few patients did respond to it with reduction of POIS symptoms but many of them did not, he did not specify numbers though.

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #427 on: December 22, 2018, 01:09:50 PM »
Welcome back Nanna!
Thanks for the information, you mention using indomethacin but honestly indomethacin is not a good drug for your stomach. What do you think about piroxicam? Perhaps it is a safer Cox inhibitor.
Unfortunately, Excerdin is not available where I live, I can still buy it from Amazon though, we'll see.
Also I know you have your own Herpers-POIS theory. But how about POIS being a form of Mast Cell Activation Disorder? I have contacted two rare disease specialists and they both agree that there is a connection. I wish we can your two cents on this matter.

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #428 on: December 22, 2018, 02:42:44 PM »

Nothing that I say here can substitute for treatment by a personal physician.


Thanks for that, nanna1!

Splendid writeup & graphics!!



« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 02:57:25 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #429 on: December 22, 2018, 02:44:20 PM »
In theory, the COX inhibitor Diclofenac is the best COX inhibitor for POIS.

Then I must disappoint you and the community. Waldinger has done a pilot study with Diclofenac. Patients took 25 mg Diclofenac 2 hours before sexual activity. He did not translate this into an official study due to insufficient results. A few patients did respond to it with reduction of POIS symptoms but many of them did not, he did not specify numbers though.

Muon, is it possible to post more here about that pilot study?
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #430 on: December 22, 2018, 11:21:00 PM »
Hi Muon,
In theory, the COX inhibitor Diclofenac is the best COX inhibitor for POIS.

Then I must disappoint you and the community. Waldinger has done a pilot study with Diclofenac. Patients took 25 mg Diclofenac 2 hours before sexual activity. He did not translate this into an official study due to insufficient results. A few patients did respond to it with reduction of POIS symptoms but many of them did not, he did not specify numbers though.

Thank you for your comments. It is not disappointing at all. This is exciting! I believe your concerns about Diclofenac were addressed in my previous post.
(about Excedrin)...These three drugs taken together are synergetic and more effective together than if they are taken individually.
More indomethacin trials/experiences from other POISers can be found here...With that said, no COX-inhibitor can prevent POIS on its own. With that said, from my trials of the Excedrin and alternative COX-inhibitors, it seemed that I needed a COX-inhibitor and a NF-kB inhibitor to prevent POIS. Taking only COX inhibitors or taking only NF-kB inhibitors did not work no matter how high the dose was. But I must reiterate, for any drug you try, the only way to know if it works or not is to have the right timing and therapudic dose information.
The therapudic dose for Diclofenac is 50mg. I added a plasma time point graph to clarify this.
Diclofenac (oral, 50mg) (tmax = 90min, t1/2 = 80 min):
Figure from: DYLOJECT ACHIEVES CMAX 5 TO 7 TIMES ORAL IMMEDIATE-RELEASE (IR) DICLOFENAC

  According to published data (see post) Diclofenac is only comparable to Indomethacin at equal concentrations. This means (Diclofenac 50mg, acetaminophen 500mg, caffeine 130mg) vs. (Indomethacin 50mg, acetaminophen 500mg, caffeine 130mg) vs. (Aspirin 500mg, acetaminophen 500mg, caffeine 130mg).

I did a quick search and the only published trial of Diclofenac for POIS that I could find is the following:
"An alternate hypothesis proposed by Ashby and Goldmeier in their case report is that POIS is driven by a disordered cytokine or neuroendocrine response. This was supported by the improvement of POIS symptoms in the patient after administration of prophylactic diclofenac, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication... Another successful trial of therapy with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication (diclofenac) succeeded in alleviating symptoms (up to 80% improvement) and allowed the patient in that case report to increase his sexual frequency from 2 to 4 times a month." -Post-Orgasmic Illness Syndrome: A Review
----------------------------------------------------
Hi Nas,
  Thanks for your questions and comments. I never experienced stomach problems when I took aspirin or indomethacin, but I only took them a few times (not chronically). Any strong COX-1 inhibitor that is taken daily over a long period of time will increase the risk of gastrointestinal (stomach) problems. This is why I included the detox antioxidants selenomethionine and N-acetylcysteine which boost glutathione production. The research indicates that selenomethionine detoxifies indomethacin and N-acetylcyteine detoxifies acetaminophen/Tylenol (Ref1). For example,
selenomethionine:
  Selenomethionine is needed to produce all the glutathione recycling enzymes, glutathione peroxidase. Selenium can repair peroxidative damage and increase activity of the three main anti-oxidant enzymes superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase, and glutathione peroxidase above normal levels (Ref).
I do not have a way of independently verifying whether selenium and N-acetylcysteine are effective at preventing side-effects. So take the usual precautions and seek a physician's counsel. One of the main reasons I include N-acetylcysteine in the Beta-herpes virus Stack is because there is research and human clinical trials for using it as drug detox (Ref1, Ref2). In terms of Piroxicam, I am not familiar with this NSAID, but I would be glad to hear of your experience. If it is a better way of reducing prostaglandin (like PGE2 and PGF2alpha) production, then I'm sure it will benefit the community.

  Mast cells are definitely important. But I will post some thoughts about mast cells in a different thread, because I think my answer will be quite complex. Thanks again Nas!
----------------------------------------------------
Nothing that I say here can substitute for treatment by a personal physician.
Thanks for that, nanna1!

Splendid writeup & graphics!!
Thanks demografx!
----------------------------------------------------
To All,
  I know I have not been quick with replies. There is a lot on my plate right now. I am a post-doctoral researcher in the biomedical field, and I am applying for a professor position at a university. This means I have to publish a lot of papers and satisfy collaborators which takes a lot of time. Please forgive me. I wish you all well!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 10:46:34 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
Find medical test: https://www.findlabtest.com/

Hopeoneday

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #431 on: December 23, 2018, 03:44:10 PM »
I see that in some patients from mcas using aspirin is one of the main
things for realefe.
But all this nsaids , aspirin etc for some peoples could hawe nasty side
effects....
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 11:10:21 AM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #432 on: December 23, 2018, 07:21:08 PM »

I am applying for a professor position at a university.






10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #433 on: December 24, 2018, 06:56:20 AM »
Ok thanks for the explanation nanna. I don't know how you are able to perform in university. I'm a physicist myself but homebound. Everytime I try working towards a normal lifestyle I'm crashing.

Muon, is it possible to post more here about that pilot study?

This is the only info I've got. I could send Waldinger an email and ask for more details, don't know whether he will respond.

itsmel

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #434 on: December 24, 2018, 01:54:10 PM »
Thanks for checking up with poiscenter with periodic updates nana1, we really appreciated it.

Regarding the NSAIDS, Celebrex and Diclofenac are both NSAID but Celebrex is a COX-2 inhibitor opposed to Diclofenac which does both COX-1 and COX-2. With both similar side effects, wouldn't it be safer to use COX-2 since you don't want to necessary want to mess with COX-1? I recall romies who posted early in this topic and another user searched on this forum who had success with it but Nas did not, then it got me thinking when you said taken for long term. Does that mean it needs to be build up in your system? I tried to reach out to the two users but haven't got an reply.

Btw, about Diclofenac via wiki

"Use of diclofenac in animals has been reported to have led to a sharp decline in the vulture population in the Indian subcontinent ? a 95% decline by 2003[35]"

Wow! :o

itsmel

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #435 on: December 24, 2018, 02:06:46 PM »
It was Egordon who used Celebrex, I wonder if they have any updates regarding the usage.

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=524.0

demografx

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #436 on: December 25, 2018, 11:44:01 PM »

I'm a physicist




Just posting as good-natured humor :) :) :)






« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 12:26:48 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Muon

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #437 on: December 26, 2018, 07:59:37 AM »
I think I will be pointing my muonic cannon towards Chile today 8).

Nas

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #438 on: December 26, 2018, 09:05:45 AM »
I think I will be pointing my muonic cannon towards Chile today 8).
This is the first time, I ever, even remotely, see a gist of humor coming from Muon :P

nanna1

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Re: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
« Reply #439 on: December 28, 2018, 01:43:11 AM »
Hi Itsmel,

Thanks for your questions and comments.
Regarding the NSAIDS, Celebrex and Diclofenac are both NSAID but Celebrex is a COX-2 inhibitor opposed to Diclofenac which does both COX-1 and COX-2. With both similar side effects, wouldn't it be safer to use COX-2 since you don't want to necessary want to mess with COX-1?
  This is a good question. The short answer is that I don't yet know the answer to the (selctive-COX-2 vs. non-specific-COX ) inhibitor question. Only COX-2 is upregulated by inflammation (via NF-kB and JNK). However, the goal is to block PGE2 production. And since both COX-1 and COX-2 can produce PGE2 from arachidonic acid, it is not clear whether selective COX-2 inhibitors alone can prevent the rise in prostaglandins. I found this article which suggest that both COX-1 and COX-2 need to be inhibited:

"To better understand the role of COX induction and prostaglandin production in herpesvirus replication and pathogenesis, we analyzed the effects of specific and nonspecific COX inhibitors on PRV replication. The inhibition of either COX-1 or COX-2 by use of an isoform-specific inhibitor caused a moderate inhibition of PRV growth (25- to 30-fold). However, when both COX isoforms were inhibited simultaneously, either with a nonspecific COX inhibitor or with a combination of specific COX-1 and COX-2 inhibitors, PRV infectious yields were dramatically reduced (>200,000-fold). We performed ultrastructural studies to determine the effects of COX inhibitors on capsid and virion maturation. COX inhibition during PRV infection led to an accumulation of unusual empty capsid-like structures in the nuclei of infected cells. Our data establish a role for COX-1 and COX-2 in facilitating the efficient growth and replication of PRV in primary cells."
-Cyclooxygenase-1and -2 Are Required for Production of Infectious Pseudorabies Virus

So my best guess is that inhibiting both COX-1 and COX-2 over a short time period (short half-life, t1/2) would be better.

when you said taken for long term. Does that mean it needs to be build up in your system?
  Yes, celecoxib/Celebrex has to build up in your body for about a week before you can see the full effects. Here is the celecoxib dosage (see post). Here is the Celebrex fact sheet (Ref1)

Btw, about Diclofenac via wiki

"Use of diclofenac in animals has been reported to have led to a sharp decline in the vulture population in the Indian subcontinent ? a 95% decline by 2003[35]"

Wow! :o
  Good observation! It's hard for me to comment much on diclofenac since I don't have personal experience with it. It doesn't bother me that diclofenac is toxic to birds because other species have different drug-metabolism enzymes than we do. For example, tea, dark chocolate and coffee are all lethal to carnivores like dogs and cats, but can be quite healthy for omnivores like humans. With that said, the toxicity of diclofenac may still be a problem in humans when used long-term, so it is worth looking into its safety or finding alternative COX inhibitors. There may be safer and more effective COX inhibitors than diclofenac.

The ideal COX inhibitor for the Beta-herpes virus stack would have the following properties:
  • (COX-1 IC50) >= (COX-2 IC50), inhibits COX-2 more than or equal to inhibiting COX-1
  • High single-dose bioavailability (Cmax > IC50, for both COX-1 and COX-2)
  • Short half-life (t1/2 < 2 hours)
  IC50 is the Concentration needed to Inhibit 50% of the COX-(1,2) protein. Cmax is the maximum Concentration that absorbs into the blood steam or the bioavailability. More about IC50 is explained here.

  Properties 1 and 2 define the effectiveness of the drug. While properties 2 and 3 basically define the safety of the drug. For property 2, higher bioavailability means that less of the drug has to be taken. For property 3, a short half-life means that the drug is only active when it is needed (during-orgasm) but not active very long afterwards when it is not needed. Gallic acid is a natural COX-2 inhibitor that has properties 2 and 3. Gallic acid is found in tea and has a good safety reputation in humans. It also seems to be good for birds (Ref)! If someone finds a COX-1 inhibitor that has properties 2 and 3, then it could be paired with gallic acid to effectively have all three properties....Or since aspirin is a COX-1 inhibitor, gallic acid (100mg) could be taken with the Excedrin, vitamin D3, selenomethione and N-acetylcysteine stack (2 hours pre-activity). Thanks for your thoughtful questions :)

I think I will be pointing my muonic cannon towards Chile today 8).
LOL! Awesome  ;D
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 07:55:56 AM by nanna1 »
POIS clusters: 1,3,4,5,7
POIS criteria: 1,2,3,4,5
2 stacks that give me complete relief of POIS symptoms are listed here: POIS cure: theory & supplement stack
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