POIS treatment: theory & supplement stack

[Quantum]

I am pharmacist and dentist. I don?t work as a pharmacist anymore though.
I?ve had POIS since 2012, I?m not sure how it all started but my theory is that it could have been a combination of roaccutane treatment for acne, excessive orgasms (twice a day), and coffee.

Hi melt, and welcome to the forum!

Thanks for having taken the time to share your theory about POIS, and your POIS control method.

You have developed a very extensive method, fighting POIS on many different fronts, and it pays off for you, as you get a 90% of relief form your POIS symptoms.

I deduct from your method that your main symptoms are muscles pain and stiffness, sinus congestion, and some brain fog.  I say "some" brain fog, because since you have managed to get two university diploma, your cognitive abilities are not that affected by POIS ( you may be aware that there are POIS sufferers who are drop out of College because of POIS, being unable to pass their exams, even if they were brilliant students in elementary school).    You do not seem to have much emotional symptoms, like irritability, social withdrawal, impulsivity, mood swings, and the like... Am I wrong in thinking that?

Many parts of your method/program have been used and discuss here, some less ( like chiropractic adjustment ).   

Take the time to read the wealth of information that is available on the forum, and I hope you will take an active part in our ongoing collective effort to solve the POIS puzzle.

Last but not least, you mention that a sex doctor has diagnosed your POIS.  That is a rarity, since their is only a handful of doctors in the world who have heard of POIS, let alone knowing the criteria for diagnostic.   I have currently put up a list of "POIS Doctors", meaning that they know about POIS and are seeing POIS patients ( and won't refer the patient to the psychiatric department...), and for now, there are only 3 doctors on the list.  They do not have a cure to offer, but at least, you can skip the part where you have to educate the physician about POIS and convince him that it really exist...  So, If you agree too, I would like to know the name of this doctor, so it can be added to this list ( see at  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2575.msg22338#msg22338 ).

[nanna1]

Recently, I have been experimenting with ways to cheat on my diet. For those just tuning in, I generally eat vegan foods to exclude the omega-6 arachidonic acid (AA) from my diet and supplement with omega-3. I did a test of indomethacin (cPLA2, COX-1, COX-2 inhibitor) and found that I can eat meat and cheese while taking indomethacin as a prepack ~30min prior to orgasm (see post). Indomethacin can replace my diet restrictions, but not my stack. I do not think indomethacin can be taken long-term because of its negative side effects.

Recently, I have been experimenting with conjugated linoleic acid (CLA). CLA is a naturally altered version of the omega-6 linoleic acid (LA), but CLA does not convert to AA. I found that I can eat meat once a day if I replace omega-3 with CLA in my stack. I still get full relief from POIS symptoms with CLA. I think, for some reason, CLA is more effective than EPA and DHA. So my stack is now updated here. I still think the omega-3s are good for general health.

[Muon]

@nanna1:
Why did you quit eating meat in the first place? Did you have bad reactions to it or was it because of the theoretical argumentation relating to AA.

[nanna1]

Hi Muon,

  I go on religious fast from time to time (not often). Sometimes they are short fast with no food just water (1 or 2 days). Other times they are longer fast with different food restrictions. I noticed that every time I fasted, my sicknesses when away. For example, during one of my 3 day fast (no food), the arthritis in hands and inflammation/pain in my knees when away completely. It initially got worse the first two days, but after the third day I no longer had knee pain or pain in my wrist. Also, my runny nose, sneezing, headaches and stiffness in my neck would disappear. This happen years ago and the knee pain and wrist pain never returned (healed). However, the runny nose, stiff neck and headaches returned once I was no longer on the fast.

  On other occasions I have done what some people call a Daniel Fast named after the biblical character Daniel. The Daniel fast is one (vegan) meal a day for 3 weeks (no meat, egg, cheese, or any other animal product). Normally, my POIS symptoms would last a week. But I noticed that if I was on a Daniel Fast and was suffering from POIS, my symptoms would disappear after two days or less and they were less severe over all. I think that caloric restriction and the reduced stress from meditation and prayer played a big part in reducing symptoms and healing my arthritis.

  However, I noticed that I get similar results (reduced allergy/sickness symptoms) from eating three vegan meals a day (no fasting required)! I did some test on myself eating isolated diets like only carbohydrates (bread and water) for a few days or only fiber or only vegetables or only fruits or only meat. I don't recommend anyone try this since it can lead to malnutrition. I found that eating animal fat by itself will give me mild POIS symptoms without orgasm. Also, animal fat makes my exercise sickness worse and I stay sore (DOMS) much longer.

  Later I found out that drugs that reduced my DOMS also reduced my POIS. This all happened before I learned about methylation and B vitamins. The ones that reduced DOMS were COX inhibitors and H1-receptor anti-histamines. Experimental supplementation with AA omega-6, omega-3, and CLA led me to believe that AA was the cause of my DOMS and POIS since AA was the only thing that gave me headaches without having an orgasm and made DOMS worse. So, I started taking omega-3.

  I have been eating out a lot lately with friends and there are no vegan options at these restaurants. I read some articles that CLA can control AA inflammation better than omega-3s, so I decided to give it another try. After about a week of taking CLA, I could eat meat (~5 times over a week) and have an orgasm without any back or neck pain. And now I can have orgasms without headaches while eating meat, but this is while taking the rest of my stack the same way. I think there is a significant difference between CLA and DHA and EPA. That is my experience.

[Quantum]

Hi Nanna,

for the benefit of members here, could you tell what CLA isomers are in the preparation you take ?  There are many different CLA supplements on the market.

[caveeater]

Just to chime in about CLA - it?s apparently high in grass fed meats and butter. So going for only grass fed meat may be another option to get it in your diet. I certainly feel better personally when I just buy grass fed meat even though it costs more.

[nanna1]

  Thanks Quantum for pointing out the CLA isomer issue, because not all CLA is anti-inflammatory. The brand that I use does not specify which isomers are present. So I can not fully answer your question. Not many of the manufacturers list this. MuscleTech is an exception (MT CLA). From what I understand, the active isomers are cis9,trans11 and trans10,cis12 CLA (Ref). Tonalin (R) and Clarinol (R) are proprietary 50:50 mixtures of these two isomers (cis9,trans11 and trans10,cis12). And several supplement manufacturers sell Tonalin (Amazon link). CLA is fat soluble, so I take it immediately before or during my meals.

  In general, CLA changes body fat composition (changing the types of fat in the body). I think the effect of CLA on AA is caused by the same isomers that reduce body fat. So I would read the reviews and see which CLA supplements are effective at reducing body fat. I hope that helps. If you find/found any brands that specify the isomer ratios, I will be very interested!

  Thanks caveeater for the tip on grass fed meat! I still don't eat meat everyday, just sporadically. But I'll have to look for some grass fed beef. 

[dizzy]

Regarding CLA, I noticed that Examine.com writes [1]:

CLA does not go well with Resveratrol (Both possess anti-obesity actions, and inhibit each other in exerting them)

Would that warning apply here as well, or only when one wants to lose fat?

[1] https://examine.com/supplements/conjugated-linoleic-acid/

[Hopeoneday]

Intresting to notice that some people hawe benefits by eating only meats and some specific food like goinglescrazy and they cured from pois when stick to that diet, on the odher side nana1 mentiened that meats cousing him pois and artritis etc.
Dos eny one of you done fodd senzibilitiy test from blod semple?
Delayed food sensibility, lgG test from blod.
Medicine dont admit and acept those testes but as reading on net people claim that hawe big benefits from those specific foodds restrictions.

[BuckarooBanzai88]

Hey I just joined the forum after reading through this thread.  I think I might try taking the supplements suggested on the original post.  I just had three questions:

1) Is that completely up to date with suggested supplements?

2) I've got severe gluten intolerance and have similar symptoms with POIS.  I wonder if there might not be some connection there.  I know it comes up from time to time around the forum so perhaps I'm not the only one.  That being the case, it sounds like the supplement stack is more of a palliative approach to the problem, rather than stanching this issue at the source.

3) Many members seem to be extremely knowledgeable / medically savvy.  I'm looking for organizations/research institutions dedicated to the research of our affliction.  Is anyone aware of professional efforts to devise treatments?  I'm on the board of a charitable foundation and am selfishly investigating ways to help.

Thanks!

[Quantum]

Hey I just joined the forum after reading through this thread.  I think I might try taking the supplements suggested on the original post.  I just had three questions:

1) Is that completely up to date with suggested supplements?

2) I've got severe gluten intolerance and have similar symptoms with POIS.  I wonder if there might not be some connection there.  I know it comes up from time to time around the forum so perhaps I'm not the only one.  That being the case, it sounds like the supplement stack is more of a palliative approach to the problem, rather than stanching this issue at the source.

3) Many members seem to be extremely knowledgeable / medically savvy.  I'm looking for organizations/research institutions dedicated to the research of our affliction.  Is anyone aware of professional efforts to devise treatments?  I'm on the board of a charitable foundation and am selfishly investigating ways to help.

Thanks!

Hi BuckarooBanzai, and welcome to the forum !

1.   Nanna keeps his stack description updated ( original post).  He is experimenting with other things, but those are mentioned in other, separated threads. 

2. There are other members who seems to have a type of POIS responding to a diet change.  You may like to read this thread :  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2275.msg18450#msg18450 .  Member Going Less Crazy has 100% relief from POIS with his diet.

There are other links to other members' successful diets found in the POIS Types Chart, at type No7: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448

3. This forum have been working continuously, for years, to stimulate research on POIS.  We have gathered a $31000 grant for a study on POIS, and it is currently available through NORD ( National Organization for Rare Diseases).   We actively contact any researcher that knows about POIS, but to date, there is no answer to our Request For Proposal.  You can find more information at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2462.msg20970#msg20970 .  We actively ask members to let their physician know about our RFP ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=426.msg24011#msg24011 )

However, studies on POIS are few and far between ( you can find an updated list here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2392.msg20182#msg20182 ).  Research on POIS is quite slow, so we have to be patient and have reasonable expectations ( For my views as to why we have a hard time finding a research team that would go ahead with a study on POIS, see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=426.msg23844#msg23844 ).  So , having some money to invest is not enough, medical research is a business, too.   I hear you may have some funding available for POIS research, that is a great thing !   But we still have to find teams that are willing and interested to work on POIS.   


Let us know of your results with any method you try for your POIS.  Have you been suffering from POIS for a long time?  What are your main symptoms?

Take a look at the wealth of information contained on the forum, and do not hesitate to ask questions and submit ideas and personal observations. 

[Observer]

Hey I just joined the forum after reading through this thread.  I think I might try taking the supplements suggested on the original post.  I just had three questions:

1) Is that completely up to date with suggested supplements?

2) I've got severe gluten intolerance and have similar symptoms with POIS.  I wonder if there might not be some connection there.  I know it comes up from time to time around the forum so perhaps I'm not the only one.  That being the case, it sounds like the supplement stack is more of a palliative approach to the problem, rather than stanching this issue at the source.

3) Many members seem to be extremely knowledgeable / medically savvy.  I'm looking for organizations/research institutions dedicated to the research of our affliction.  Is anyone aware of professional efforts to devise treatments?  I'm on the board of a charitable foundation and am selfishly investigating ways to help.

Thanks!

Hello BuckarooBanzai88. As Quantum said, welcome to the forum!

I was wondering how much have you been following your celiac diet. Are you noticing any overall improvement?

[BuckarooBanzai88]

Hi Quantum/Observer,

Thank you so much for all this information!  I saw my doctor today to discuss this for the first time and it was very helpful.

It's also very, very helpful to see that compiled list of remedies folks have had luck with!  I'm reading through them now to see which one to try first.  I'll most certainly share everything I learn with my various investigations.  I'm also probably going to go to the Mayo Clinic to make sure I don't have any underlying condition.  I may try Crowdmed from there just to exhaust all of my resources.

That's interesting to hear about the politics and economy of research.  This is all relatively new to me so I know next to nothing about, well, everything.  Maybe as I learn more, I'll be able to contribute in some meaningful way to the goal of inspiring research.  There too, I'll post anything I find out.


You asked how long I've been dealing with POIS.  I've had underlying depression/anxiety/brain fog from gluten intolerance since I reached puberty (though I didn't know the cause).  Only in 2012 did I really start to investigate why I was having such a hard time.  Long story short, I figured out it was gluten (after a ridiculous procession of doctors) around 2016.  Over 2016 I figured out just how sensitive I am and am now able to avoid it consistently.  When I DO eat gluten, I become suicidal for about three days (extremely depressed, anxious, foggy head, exhausted, irritable), then over the next ~7 days, I slowly regain my equilibrium.  I have nightmares about eating gluten.

But even after I stopped eating gluten (I'm on the extremely sensitive end of the gluten intolerance spectrum so I don't eat out ever, and I only eat what I cook), I realized there were inexplicable bouts of symptoms that were somewhat less severe, but very similar and usually only lasting for something like five days.  More emphasis was on the physical fatigue in these instances.  My normal 2 mile run is nearly impossible on the first day of these sorts of bouts.  I only recently realized these instances coincided, in every single case, with having ejaculated.  The intensity of my symptoms vary, but I haven't established the deciding factor there.  Maybe quantity.  At this point I'm celibate and only eat in alone.  It's like living in a monastery or temple . Of course I can't very well control what my body does while I'm unconscious.

At any rate, I've rambled here, but that's sort of my story since you and Observer asked.  I'll let you all know (not on this thread since I think it's probably not the right place) if I learn anything new.

Thanks again for the warm welcome. 

[Going less Crazy]

Hi Quantum/Observer,

Thank you so much for all this information!  I saw my doctor today to discuss this for the first time and it was very helpful.

It's also very, very helpful to see that compiled list of remedies folks have had luck with!  I'm reading through them now to see which one to try first.  I'll most certainly share everything I learn with my various investigations.  I'm also probably going to go to the Mayo Clinic to make sure I don't have any underlying condition.  I may try Crowdmed from there just to exhaust all of my resources.

That's interesting to hear about the politics and economy of research.  This is all relatively new to me so I know next to nothing about, well, everything.  Maybe as I learn more, I'll be able to contribute in some meaningful way to the goal of inspiring research.  There too, I'll post anything I find out.


You asked how long I've been dealing with POIS.  I've had underlying depression/anxiety/brain fog from gluten intolerance since I reached puberty (though I didn't know the cause).  Only in 2012 did I really start to investigate why I was having such a hard time.  Long story short, I figured out it was gluten (after a ridiculous procession of doctors) around 2016.  Over 2016 I figured out just how sensitive I am and am now able to avoid it consistently.  When I DO eat gluten, I become suicidal for about three days (extremely depressed, anxious, foggy head, exhausted, irritable), then over the next ~7 days, I slowly regain my equilibrium.  I have nightmares about eating gluten.

But even after I stopped eating gluten (I'm on the extremely sensitive end of the gluten intolerance spectrum so I don't eat out ever, and I only eat what I cook), I realized there were inexplicable bouts of symptoms that were somewhat less severe, but very similar and usually only lasting for something like five days.  More emphasis was on the physical fatigue in these instances.  My normal 2 mile run is nearly impossible on the first day of these sorts of bouts.  I only recently realized these instances coincided, in every single case, with having ejaculated.  The intensity of my symptoms vary, but I haven't established the deciding factor there.  Maybe quantity.  At this point I'm celibate and only eat in alone.  It's like living in a monastery or temple . Of course I can't very well control what my body does while I'm unconscious.

At any rate, I've rambled here, but that's sort of my story since you and Observer asked.  I'll let you all know (not on this thread since I think it's probably not the right place) if I learn anything new.

Thanks again for the warm welcome.

Do you have celiac disease?  You might benefit going dairy free as well (gluten very similar to casein) and/or starting a food diary... especially if your gut isn't healed you could react to anything, especially grains and dairy.

Source: I have the same problem.  Never truly figured out if it was celiac disease though.

[nanna1]

Regarding CLA, I noticed that Examine.com writes [1]:

CLA does not go well with Resveratrol (Both possess anti-obesity actions, and inhibit each other in exerting them)

Would that warning apply here as well, or only when one wants to lose fat?

[1] https://examine.com/supplements/conjugated-linoleic-acid/

Hi dizzy,

Thanks for your question. I do not know how CLA will affect results from Resveratrol. The bioavailability of CLA is much greater than Resveratrol. So I would imagine that the effects of CLA will dominate if they are taken together. But I do not take resveratrol, so I do not know the answer to your question. But thanks for asking. Hopefully someone else with experience with resveratrol can give better insight. 

[BuckarooBanzai88]

Do you have celiac disease?  You might benefit going dairy free as well (gluten very similar to casein) and/or starting a food diary... especially if your gut isn't healed you could react to anything, especially grains and dairy.

Source: I have the same problem.  Never truly figured out if it was celiac disease though.

I don't technically have celiac disease.  I have the genes for it, and the sensitivity, but it hasn't ever developed into full blown celiacs.  I've been told by several doctors that I _must_ not eat gluten given my genes.

I don't eat dairy or eggs.  I have a very restricted diet and I only eat home cooked from trusted sources.  I definitely have some sort of leaky gut going that re-surfaces whenever i accidentally eat gluten.

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions about my specific condition.  I feel guilty lingering on this particular thread since it's about nanna's stack.

[Muon]

I have the genes for it, and the sensitivity, but it hasn't ever developed into full blown celiacs.  I've been told by several doctors that I _must_ not eat gluten given my genes.

What genes?

[fernab]

Hi, I suppose it is about DQ2 and DQ8 genes.
It also seems in my case, that some antibodies linked to celiac desease are increasing since I began with POIS.

My immunologist told me that once you are suffering an autoinmune desease you become more prone to suffer other.

I have recently got sores on my tongue. I went to the maxillofacial to see them. He told me that they are typical sores of an autoimmune disease.

although all this does not prove anything. all this makes me suspect that POIS is also an autoimmune disease.

[Hopeoneday]

Definitly could be autoimune, an who knows what else involved. The prove for me on autoimune for some people is diet, check on GLC tread.

[fernab]

Sorry, what do you mean by GLC?