Testosterone

[Muon]

Muon, do you see (TRT) Testosterone therapy  as compatible with MCAS theory?

Yes. "Human MC also express progesterone 176, 177 and testosterone 178 receptors, but their activation appears to have an inhibitory effect." Ref

Plus your forced sleep could mean forced Melatonin production. Melatonin inhibits mast cells.

Other theories:
TRT is also compatible with Foxp3+ Treg deficiency theory Ref.

TRT is anti-inflammatory Ref.

Since mast cells reside in endocrine glands I would not be surprised if they are responsible for abnormal hormone levels in POISers.

[demografx]

Muon, thank you. Appreciate that you even addressed my Benadryl protocol.

[hurray]

Muon, thank you. Appreciate that you even addressed my Benadryl protocol.

From an experimental point of view, I always found Clomid (testosterone booster) to be helpful with my POIS. In fact I am in the process of buying some more, as my supply has almost run out.

I also had some positive experiences with testosterone gel dating back almost 20 years - it was prohibitively expensive back then, but I am sure the costs will have come down since then 

[demografx]

Thanks, hurray!

[Muon]

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3151.msg34280#msg34280

Differential effects of testosterone on circulating neutrophils, monocytes, and platelets in men: Findings from two trials

"Conclusions

Testosterone administration in men differentially increases neutrophil and monocyte counts. These findings, together with its erythropoietic effects, suggest that testosterone promotes the differentiation of hematopoietic progenitors into the myeloid lineage. These findings have potential mechanistic, therapeutic, and safety implications."

From an experimental point of view, I always found Clomid (testosterone booster) to be helpful with my POIS. In fact I am in the process of buying some more, as my supply has almost run out.

I also had some positive experiences with testosterone gel dating back almost 20 years - it was prohibitively expensive back then, but I am sure the costs will have come down since then 

Then you may ask yourself the question what testosterone therapy and milnacipran do have in common.

One could also look in literature if and how TRT affects Th1/Th2 balance.
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0167569994900752

[demografx]

With all my TRT + Benadryl “success”, today is Day 3 (POIS onset = Day Zero), and *only now* is my brain FULLY back to 100%!! POIS is a vicious monster.

[drop247]

Demografx have you tested a non-drowsy 2nd gen anti-histamine on the days after O? I find it helps me.

[demografx]

drop247, thanks. I should try, certainlypois2 recommended Zyrtec, I guess I’ve been a little lazy to try.

[drop247]

Zrytec might be a little strong if you're already taking Benadryl. I'd say for 2nd gens from weakest to strongest would be Allegra-Claritin-Zrytec. But everyone tolerates things differently.

[demografx]

Thank you, drop247!

[demografx]

Zrytec might be a little strong if you're already taking Benadryl.

drop247, you’re absolutely right: I would never take 2 in the same class of OTC drugs at the same time.

[ramore]

Tried clomid/clomifene.
In two words it is working on me by 100%. I don't have any POIS effects right now. At all. It has propagated and far stronger effect compared to HCG. 

I am taking it third time today(50mg, 50mg, today was 25mg) , it starts working very fast, and to full extent, but, strangely, some positive aspect of it (i would describe it as some sort of a shade of happiness) is peaking on a second day ( i didn't not taking it for longer yet so i don't have the data on what will be the effect without taking it on a 3rd day and after).

I don't have any pois effects. i can masturbate 5-6 times (or even more) a day, and nothing bad happens, i can sleep for 6 hours and i am waking up with clear head, i don't have any ringing dizziness or irritation, my brain never worked that clear, my thoughts are deep, my mood is happy and productive, my mind was not that calm for 15 years. i would say this is the best feeling that was with me for a long-long-long time.

Not to jinx it and to do a mistake I am changing my behaviour to a safe mode. Reducing the dose to 25mg and starting taking it only once in 2-5 days (i don't know the far border of effectiveness so i need to experiment with how long i can not take it without effect disappearing). Until i will gather enough information, start doing and monitoring my analysis and similar stuff.


I saw a message  here in a core telling that it is "just a testosterone booster".

From an experimental point of view, I always found Clomid (testosterone booster) to be helpful with my POIS...

As far as i can understand it, it is NOT just a TRT booster and you need to be careful with taking it. With my simplistic view right now on the subject, it legitimately telling the body to start produce more TRT by blocking the blocker of TRT producer. With potential to develop tolerance to TRT producer, so... i need to do a big research on how it is all working. what to fear, what to monitor...and so on.

But if your body can produce TRT, i think it can be the therapy. From what i read so far, it is not a cure, the TRT production will slope to usual with time, but... it can be sloping to usual for month. I don't have any analisis on hands but from what i saw, i think my TRT is 1.5-3 times higher than my usual, and this amount of TRT is just completely overflooding POIS.

I saw in a internet some quazy legit (from medical perspective) bodybuilder that doing paid consultations, and one of his main themes are TRT, as for people who are taking bodybuilder chemistry and their TRT is dropping, and for people who are having TRT problems of their own (Hypogonadism), I am strongly feeling he can produce some very useful insights on how to monitor, what to take, what to fear, how to.... and so on.

I know that i need to start doing all kind of analizis, but with this xxxxxx COVID i am afraid to do them. I am working from home and don't intersect with any people so, it will be big change in safety protocols of mine. i have ffp3 masks but still...

This is not a encouragement to start taking it, this is just a report to provide data from my end. May be i needed to take it longer before posting this. I will do updates on what is going on with me.

[portuguese_poiser]

Where are you from Ramore ? I'm willing to do an experiment on Clomid or Hcg but it's almost impossible to convince any doctor to prescribe something like that...

[ramore]

Sorry to hear it @portuguese_poiser. I am from Russia.

Here you can buy any drugs (except psychiatric, like antidepressants) in any pharmacy without them asking for the prescription. Hell, after COVID they even started to deliver non-psychiatric drugs straight to flats (and never ask for the prescription as you understand).

My first thought that will work flawlessly in your case if you are from Europe is to travel to Ukraine, ask for help to someone from the forum from there, and to test the drugs this way. I am not from Ukraine but i pretty sure there is the same situation of accessibility of drugs as in Russia, and Ukraine is more friendly with Europe in terms of Visas, i don't think you need it there. I think if you are from Portuguese (as your nickname suggesting) you can fly there in 3-4 hours with a ticket cost of 150$. So it will be completely possible to do something in a weekend.

But you need a good plan if you want this trip to be productive. You need to find someone from there willing to help (it will be easy for person not knowing the language, but i guess, it is not the end of the world to travel by yourself too. you only need to find pharmacy where it is available and to buy it. you can just show the name of the drug from the phone), you need a complete list of drugs that you will be testing...and so on and so forth.

I guess, i don't know, ( you need to do a research of your own on that) that you can buy some amount of drugs (for a month for example) and take it in your home country. But you need to do a research on allowed kinds and amounts of drugs to take.

I can think through some details if you want on how to do it.

My advice to you, if you would decide to make a trip,already think that you will fail on that trip, and you wont find something working on you. If you will find something first try, great, if you don't, think about it as beginning of the gurney, your are on the right track and that was the first trip from many others, trying to find the resolution. Basically don't give up and keep punching.

[berlin1984]

From quick googling, there is other herbs proposed as clomid alternative.
(Usually woman focused...)

As an idea: black cohosh (should find it on Amazon.ES or whatever Portugese site you mght use)
via https://www.pcosliving.com/pcos-living-blog/natural-alternative-clomid
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=black+cohosh+clomid (hm, female treatment for clomid+cohosh)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actaea_racemosa#Traditional_medicine (LIVER problems!?)

(I've never heard of this herb before, so please research first. I'm also interested in opinions on vitex castus)
(If you experiment with it, please create a new thread and let us know there)

[demografx]

Has anyone tried daily TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) for POIS for at least 4 - 6 weeks and it DIDN’T work?

I’m only interested if you tried:

• patches

or

• gel

(I don’t believe in injections - - they spike in and out of the system too quickly to be uniformly long-lasting for POIS. Patches/gel more closely mimic the body’s natural rhythm of testosterone absorption and implementation).

THANK YOU!
Demo

This is *not* my endorsement for anyone to try TRT. In my case, I lost all fertility, my sperm count dropped to 0.00!

[demografx]

After a lifetime (many decades) of POIS struggle, I think I finally landed a “90%+ cure” formula for me
For myself. No idea if/how this will work for other POISers.

• abstinence (19 days this time)
• Heavy TRT @ POIS onset   (8mg Androderm this time vs. 2mg to 4mg/out-of-POIS - 365 days/year
• Heavy Benadryl @ POIS onset (100mg [50am/50pm] this time vs. 12.5mg/out-of-POIS)
• “Extra” sleep (Benadryl-induced) @ POIS onset to “ride out” early symptom onset

I wrote this over 3 months ago. It is still valid, although I would add that what works best for me is to
FORCE SLEEP on Day Zero (the day of POIS onset).

Yesterday was Day Zero for me, and I took enough Benadryl (without overdosing!) to sleep/stay rested in bed till 3:45 in the afternoon. I’m fortunate that way:  I’m retired.

[ramore]

@demografx do i understand it correctly? do you feel that TRT is only masking your pois? It can be doing it very effective, and you be doing almost ok, but the low/lowish TRT is not the actually case?
basically TRT is greatly working on pois but it is not the cause of pois? at least in the beginning when you had your own TRT...? some symptoms of TRT deficiency is suspiciously similar to pois as i am reading it, but my feeling is starting to shift to that pois is not caused by problems with TRT and with something else.

[Iwillbeatthis]

Message sent to me by Ramone about his Clomid treatment - He asked me to post in here

Hello. It is going not that great (from the ideal scenario) right now. By the time i ate all first pack, the strength is noticeably dropped. When i was eating first 5 pills i would say, the effect of, i guess TRT raising was about 30% above ~good~, better than good. but as i took it more, the effect was dropping to just ~i am completely ok~ with masturbation, on pill 8-9-10 the effect dropped below completely ok, i would say 30% worth ~than you want to feel~.
After I ate first 10 pills, i decided to do some some sort of rotation scheme and not be on clomid all the time. I was thinking to eat clomid 1 month, than HCG for month, and then maybe be on one of the antidepressant (for me Zoloft was working that way) who are reducing the need for sex.

And I end up just be sober and not having orgasms for a week or so. From start of this year i decided to take the orgasm every day, or multiple, the spring was rough in terms of tiredness aspect, the summer was much better in that aspect and the worth symptom was very severe anxiety.
So it was the longest pause this year.

I decided to change the scheme again, it was the most productive week for a while (the downside i guess was i could not sleep more than 3 hours straight).
So i changed my scheme. I decided to be withdraw from orgasms for 2 weeks, the last day have a pill of Clomid and take a few orgasms, and than repeat the 2 weeks...
 
I took the pill and after around 30min i took 4 masturbations. The one pill was not enough for me. I was starting feeling that headache is on the edge of happening and overall irritability and so on and so force. And i took another one.

My feeling was not far from as great as without orgasms, but i would say it was pretty ok to be in this state. Today the symptoms partially came back. No headache or anxiety but the inflammation, tiredness and the irritability are severe today. the day is wasted basically. I didn't took the another pill today, so... And i need to mention when i am having orgasms once or twice a day the anxiety is killing but the overall symptoms are on some level to say it this way. But when i am taking a big pause the effect of POIS are raising by x2 or x3.

I guess clomid is definitely something i want to have, but right now my theory evolved in that TRT reduction after orgasm or overall low level of TRT is NOT the case of POIS. My theory right now that when i am taking something boosting TRT, it actually going above normal of average man, and the reason this works on POIS is that TRT somehow masking/reducing/can completely kill pois for a few days.

Right now on my pois testing on myself i want to switch focus from TRT and try the effectiveness of antiinflammatory/antiallergenic drugs because as I watch carefully it is seems more and more looking as immune reaction.

To cap it out. I i was me i wanted to have clomid, at least for now, when i don't know something better working on me. With time clomid tolerance is increasing and it starting to work less.
Right now i can think of it as a magic wand that can put myself on my legs if i want to do something important, but i don't think it can be the drug that i will take every day and to have orgasms everyday, sadly the effect is dropping and i will be using it as early as possible so my body wont be tolerate it this much.

[Iwillbeatthis]

I have noticed in the past when I have been doing lots of heavy weight lifting (squats and deadlifts - boost in testosterone) I don't get POIS symptoms from wet dreams anymore or it is much weaker.

In response to Ramone on what testosterone does for POIS, testosterone is directly correlated with autonomic function so this is probably why it masks POIS.