Testosterone

[15yrsAndCounting]

Here's a short theory of POIS.

1) A genetic defect in a methylation gene causes an inefficient homocysteine to methionine cycle.
2) Depending on the level of inefficiency, the sufferer will be fine until they encounter puberty or become older and suffer from some illness which taxes the immune system.
3) Up until the point of the first POIS O the sufferer may feel a bit tired or less active than usual but the first POIS O will come as a shock as it's the first time the body has to dispose of a substantial amount of histamine that it's impaired methylation simply cannot handle.
4) Once POIS starts, the sufferer has high levels of histamine that are not being effectively deactivated (increasing their libido and frequency of ejaculation) and impairments in the production of other neurotransmitters (making them slow down and feel depressed).
5) the High-histamine state requires the body to produce more cortisol to control inflammation. The sufferer has allergies etc. and wonders what the problem is but over time they're body becomes weaker.
6) The cortisol produced in (5) steals the raw ingredients for other hormones (including testosterone), producing symptoms of hypogonadism despite no obvious testicular malfunction or adrenal tumour. It's possible that persistent adrenal fatigue may increase the natural wear + tear on the cells of the pituitary gland which may lead to tumours but that's a side issue.
7) The body also produces adrenaline to cope with high levels of cortisol. Again, this contributes to mental and physical burnout. The POIS sufferer now has chronic adrenal fatigue and may feel "wiped out", being unable to deal with even normal stresses in every day life.
Both the reduced methylation and cortisol steal in the previous points, reduces the production of neurotransmitters. The brain also has too high a histamine load and a negative feedback loop is created such that the brain runs in a suboptimal state with too high levels of histamine and too low levels of serotonin. This leads to persistent feelings of anxiety, even when the sufferer believes they are not in POIS. Indeed, over time it becomes more difficult for the POIS sufferer to figure out when they are in in POIS or out of it. The state of weakness, fatigue and confusion becomes more persistent.
9 ) The POIS sufferer never recovers their former state of wellbeing with adequate histamine clearance and adequate methylation of neurotransmitters UNLESS they manage to kick start their methylation cycle.

Thanks to cheap DNA testing we can actually find out if we have polymorphisms (basically mutations) of our methylation genes. My guess is that we all have methylation issues. They may not be the same issue but they're similar enough to produce a major problem when we process histamine. The inability to clear histamine quickly and the high levels we experience daily would lead to the symptoms of POIS but they would be a result of other issues.

Hi Kurtosis,

What is the final solution to this? Are you taking any supplement stack? or went for TRT?

Also do any of you feel very vague or sometimes little more pain in the groin or in scrotch.?

[demografx]

Thanks, CP2!

It’s the sleep that helps the most. Even after a good night’s sleep, if POIS onset begins, it makes me need to sleep even MORE to have a curative effect. I don’t believe the antihistamine component helps at all!

Yesterday was POIS Day Zero (symptom onset), same extra-TRT-and-Benadryl protocol. I was a bit groggy, but POIS-symptom-free.

Today, I feel fine

Update: it still takes a few days to feel completely recovered. Probably from Benadryl’s grogginess-inducing protocol and “hyper” feeling from extra TRT. The latter is not ideal because of an underlying heart condition (open heart 5-way bypass 10 yrs ago).

[demografx]

I think I’ve gone as far as possible with my 10-year old POIS treatment protocol.

Result: about 70-85% effective

Here it is:

• Abstinence (2-3 weeks)

• TRT (double to triple dose @ POIS onset) PLUS moderate daily dose 365 days/year

• Benadryl (high doses for “extra” sleep, including daytime) @ POIS onset plus 1st 1-2 days

Until more formal POIS Research is conducted (2020-2021!) this is as far as I will go with experimentation.

[hurray]

I think I’ve gone as far as possible with my 10-year old POIS treatment protocol.

Result: about 70-85% effective

Here it is:

• Abstinence (2-3 weeks)

• TRT (double to triple dose @ POIS onset) PLUS moderate daily dose 365 days/year

• Benadryl (high doses for “extra” sleep, including daytime) @ POIS onset plus 1st 1-2 days

Until more formal POIS Research is conducted (2020-2021!) this is as far as I will go with experimentation.

I'm glad to see TRT still works for you, I know it has been part of your anti-POIS arsenal for many years  And it's good that your experimentation led you to a good solution.

We can theorise all we want about why POIS happens, but most of the people on this forum who have found a solution did so through experimentation.

[demografx]

We can theorise all we want about why POIS happens, but most of the people on this forum who have found a solution did so through experimentation.

Excellent & accurate point, hurray!

[demografx]

13 years ago, at the beginning of the POIS forums, I formulated a POIS theory: semen re-generation speed is at the heart of [my] POIS. The slower regeneration occurs, the more POIS I have.

Over the years, I abandoned that theory when so many more sophisticated theories were proposed here by forum members at these forums (including POISCenter’s predecessor, Naked Science Forum).

My recent experience with high dose TRT for several days leading to increased virility (and 10 yrs of POIS treatment success) is just now making me think of re-considering, i.e., maybe it wasn’t such a dumb idea after all

[b_jim]

It was never a bad idea

[hurray]

13 years ago, at the beginning of the POIS forums, I formulated a POIS theory: semen re-generation speed is at the heart of [my] POIS. The slower regeneration occurs, the more POIS I have.

Over the years, I abandoned that theory when so many more sophisticated theories were proposed here by forum members at these forums (including POISCenter’s predecessor, Naked Science Forum).

My recent experience with high dose TRT for several days leading to increased virility (and 10 yrs of POIS treatment success) is just now making me think of re-considering, i.e., maybe it wasn’t such a dumb idea after all

That sounds like a good theory to me, particularly as it is based upon your own experience. The "more sophisticated theories" remain unproven. There is still a great deal we do not know about POIS

[demografx]

Thank you,

b_jim!

and

hurray!

[demografx]

A final - - and important - -  point to my theory above: testosterone drops after ejaculation. I feel that I’m countering that natural drop with a
• higher-than-average dose of external testosterone in the earliest day(s) of POIS.

• This is *medical experimentation* on my part. Only. I am NOT recommending this to anyone else.

Best wishes,
Demo

[demografx]

New paper: Case of post?orgasmic illness syndrome associated with hypogonadism

From Muon’s link above:
“...after administering testosterone enanthate once or twice a month, his general fatigue significantly improved, and he could ejaculate every day.”

Thanks, Muon, sent paper to POIS Research Team.

[Vandemolen]

My POIS doctor it is weird that my testosterone went from 10 to 30 and then back to 15. The urologist said it is ok and sended me away. My POIS doctor also thinks it is strange that two immunologists I visited said it is ok that my IgM was too low. He talked about seeing a doctor in Belgium or Germany.

[Mushnikk]

Has anyone tried TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) for at least 4 - 6 weeks and it DIDN’T work?

I’m only interested if you tried:

• patches

or

• gel

(I don’t believe in injections - - they spike in and out of the system too quickly to be uniformly long-lasting for POIS. Patches/gel more closely mimic the body’s natural rhythm of testosterone absorption and implementation).

THANK YOU!
Demo

This is *not* my endorsement for anyone to try TRT. In my case, I lost all fertility, my sperm count dropped to 0.00!

Is the fertility issue reversible, though?

[demografx]

Mushnikk, it might be. Check in with an endocrinologist.

[demografx]

Is the fertility issue reversible, though?

Mushnikk, I’ve never used them, just found it by Googling,
“Chat with an endocrinologist”. Might be worth it for around $5.00??
They LOOK legit (New York University endocrinologist)
https://tinyurl.com/y8tf597n

But I would then take the results you get to a DOCTOR YOU KNOW. I would never take an online chat as FINAL MEDICAL DIRECTION.

[Mushnikk]

Is the fertility issue reversible, though?

Mushnikk, I’ve never used them, just found it by Googling,
“Chat with an endocrinologist”. Might be worth it for around $5.00??
They LOOK legit (New York University endocrinologist)
https://tinyurl.com/y8tf597n

But I would then take the results you get to a DOCTOR YOU KNOW. I would never take an online chat as FINAL MEDICAL DIRECTION.

Thank you for the cautious words!

[demografx]

Welcome, Mushnikk.

If you ever decide to try it, would love to know your experience!

[demografx]

Has anyone tried TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) for at least 4 - 6 weeks and it DIDN’T work?

I’m only interested if you tried:

• patches

or

• gel

(I don’t believe in injections - - they spike in and out of the system too quickly to be uniformly long-lasting for POIS. Patches/gel more closely mimic the body’s natural rhythm of testosterone absorption and implementation).

THANK YOU!
Demo

This is *not* my endorsement for anyone to try TRT. In my case, I lost all fertility, my sperm count dropped to 0.00!

[berlin1984]

Could be total coincidence, but being deep in POIS fatigue (no energy to get up or move, just want to sit or lie on the couch) I take Pine Pollen.. some just swallowing, some sublingual.
(I got them as a sample when ordering an unrelated other supplement).

after 30-60 minutes later, I feel I can walk again effortlessly, I have energy to "get stuff done". Also no brain fog, just vision a bit blurry.

"Testosterone has been found in the pollen of the Scots pine (Pinus sylvestris). It?s estimated that 10 grams of this pollen contains 0.8 micrograms of testosterone.
Because of this, pine pollen is often used to boost testosterone levels. However, there haven?t been any studies into the effectiveness of pine pollen in increasing testosterone."
https://www.healthline.com/health/pine-pollen

Unfortunately I don't know how much I took. Also it could be any other property/ingredient of those pollen.

[demografx]

Muon, do you see (TRT) Testosterone therapy  as compatible with MCAS theory?