Author Topic: Testosterone  (Read 188004 times)

certainlypois2

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #510 on: April 30, 2020, 01:18:49 PM »

At POIS onset, I went back to 2 Benadryl this time (4x my usual dose!). Plus 4 TRT (also 4x my normal dose!) I slept a lot. No POIS. But groggy as hell from the Benadryl and “oversleeping”.

Any suggestions?


Have you tried a non drowsy anthihistamine. 
They say zyrtec is non drowsy, but it makes me sleep much longer but its grogginess effects not as bad as benadryl.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 10:44:56 PM by demografx »

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #511 on: April 30, 2020, 10:42:32 PM »
Thanks, CP2, sounds promising!

Will try it!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 10:45:37 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #512 on: May 20, 2020, 06:35:39 PM »
After a lifetime (many decades) of POIS struggle, I think I finally landed a “90%+ cure” formula.
For myself. No idea if/how this will work for other POISers.

• abstinence (19 days this time)
• Heavy TRT @ POIS onset   (8mg Androderm this time vs. 2mg to 4mg/out-of-POIS)
• Heavy Benadryl @ POIS onset (100mg [50am/50pm] this time vs. 12.5mg/out-of-POIS)
• “Extra” sleep (Benadryl-induced) @ POIS onset to “ride out” early symptom onset
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 11:14:51 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #513 on: May 21, 2020, 01:13:04 PM »
Whoops! Day 1: slightly delayed reaction. Took more Benadryl & more TRT. Yesterday (Day Zero) was an unusually POIS-free/good day. 90%+ is now less ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 01:15:03 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

hurray

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #514 on: May 21, 2020, 01:24:59 PM »
That's great news Demo!! Well done on finding a winning formula.



demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #515 on: May 21, 2020, 06:08:41 PM »
Thank you, hurray.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 08:58:09 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #516 on: May 21, 2020, 09:01:27 PM »

At POIS onset, I went back to 2 Benadryl this time (4x my usual dose!). Plus 4 TRT (also 4x my normal dose!) I slept a lot. No POIS. But groggy as hell from the Benadryl and “oversleeping”.

Any suggestions?


Have you tried a non drowsy anthihistamine. 
They say zyrtec is non drowsy, but it makes me sleep much longer but its grogginess effects not as bad as benadryl.

Yes! I might be “POIS-cured” but I’m groggy as hell! CP2, if Zyrtec is non-drowsy then I might not sleep? “Extra” sleep is important to my protocol.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

certainlypois2

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #517 on: May 22, 2020, 04:33:29 PM »

At POIS onset, I went back to 2 Benadryl this time (4x my usual dose!). Plus 4 TRT (also 4x my normal dose!) I slept a lot. No POIS. But groggy as hell from the Benadryl and “oversleeping”.

Any suggestions?


Have you tried a non drowsy anthihistamine. 
They say zyrtec is non drowsy, but it makes me sleep much longer but its grogginess effects not as bad as benadryl.

Yes! I might be “POIS-cured” but I’m groggy as hell! CP2, if Zyrtec is non-drowsy then I might not sleep? “Extra” sleep is important to my protocol.

You can try the experiment about the time you normally go to sleep. I know zyrtec makes my normal sleep longer and more intense(dreams are more vivid).   One of the common side effects of Zyrtec is drowsiness.
There is also melatonin , it doesn't make me sleep as much benadryl, the grogginess feeling is way less.
Have you experimented to see if sleep or the antihistamine effect of benadryl that is actually helping you.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #518 on: May 22, 2020, 05:59:09 PM »
Thanks, CP2!

It’s the sleep that helps the most. Even after a good night’s sleep, if POIS onset begins, it makes me need to sleep even MORE to have a curative effect. I don’t believe the antihistamine component helps at all!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:07:07 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #519 on: June 02, 2020, 01:22:12 PM »
Thanks, CP2!

It’s the sleep that helps the most. Even after a good night’s sleep, if POIS onset begins, it makes me need to sleep even MORE to have a curative effect. I don’t believe the antihistamine component helps at all!

Yesterday was POIS Day Zero (symptom onset), same extra-TRT-and-Benadryl protocol. I was a bit groggy, but POIS-symptom-free.

Today, I feel fine
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

15yrsAndCounting

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #520 on: June 11, 2020, 01:50:03 AM »
Here's a short theory of POIS.

1) A genetic defect in a methylation gene causes an inefficient homocysteine to methionine cycle.
2) Depending on the level of inefficiency, the sufferer will be fine until they encounter puberty or become older and suffer from some illness which taxes the immune system.
3) Up until the point of the first POIS O the sufferer may feel a bit tired or less active than usual but the first POIS O will come as a shock as it's the first time the body has to dispose of a substantial amount of histamine that it's impaired methylation simply cannot handle.
4) Once POIS starts, the sufferer has high levels of histamine that are not being effectively deactivated (increasing their libido and frequency of ejaculation) and impairments in the production of other neurotransmitters (making them slow down and feel depressed).
5) the High-histamine state requires the body to produce more cortisol to control inflammation. The sufferer has allergies etc. and wonders what the problem is but over time they're body becomes weaker.
6) The cortisol produced in (5) steals the raw ingredients for other hormones (including testosterone), producing symptoms of hypogonadism despite no obvious testicular malfunction or adrenal tumour. It's possible that persistent adrenal fatigue may increase the natural wear + tear on the cells of the pituitary gland which may lead to tumours but that's a side issue.
7) The body also produces adrenaline to cope with high levels of cortisol. Again, this contributes to mental and physical burnout. The POIS sufferer now has chronic adrenal fatigue and may feel "wiped out", being unable to deal with even normal stresses in every day life.
8) Both the reduced methylation and cortisol steal in the previous points, reduces the production of neurotransmitters. The brain also has too high a histamine load and a negative feedback loop is created such that the brain runs in a suboptimal state with too high levels of histamine and too low levels of serotonin. This leads to persistent feelings of anxiety, even when the sufferer believes they are not in POIS. Indeed, over time it becomes more difficult for the POIS sufferer to figure out when they are in in POIS or out of it. The state of weakness, fatigue and confusion becomes more persistent.
9 ) The POIS sufferer never recovers their former state of wellbeing with adequate histamine clearance and adequate methylation of neurotransmitters UNLESS they manage to kick start their methylation cycle.

Thanks to cheap DNA testing we can actually find out if we have polymorphisms (basically mutations) of our methylation genes. My guess is that we all have methylation issues. They may not be the same issue but they're similar enough to produce a major problem when we process histamine. The inability to clear histamine quickly and the high levels we experience daily would lead to the symptoms of POIS but they would be a result of other issues.


Hi Kurtosis,

What is the final solution to this? Are you taking any supplement stack? or went for TRT?

Also do any of you feel very vague or sometimes little more pain in the groin or in scrotch.?

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #521 on: June 18, 2020, 03:05:15 PM »
Thanks, CP2!

It’s the sleep that helps the most. Even after a good night’s sleep, if POIS onset begins, it makes me need to sleep even MORE to have a curative effect. I don’t believe the antihistamine component helps at all!

Yesterday was POIS Day Zero (symptom onset), same extra-TRT-and-Benadryl protocol. I was a bit groggy, but POIS-symptom-free.

Today, I feel fine

Update: it still takes a few days to feel completely recovered. Probably from Benadryl’s grogginess-inducing protocol and “hyper” feeling from extra TRT. The latter is not ideal because of an underlying heart condition (open heart 5-way bypass 10 yrs ago).
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 09:13:10 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #522 on: June 27, 2020, 08:54:06 AM »
I think I’ve gone as far as possible with my 10-year old POIS treatment protocol.

Result: about 70-85% effective

Here it is:

• Abstinence (2-3 weeks)

• TRT (double to triple dose @ POIS onset) PLUS moderate daily dose 365 days/year

• Benadryl (high doses for “extra” sleep, including daytime) @ POIS onset plus 1st 1-2 days

Until more formal POIS Research is conducted (2020-2021!) this is as far as I will go with experimentation.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:11:01 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

hurray

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #523 on: June 28, 2020, 02:24:57 PM »
I think I’ve gone as far as possible with my 10-year old POIS treatment protocol.

Result: about 70-85% effective

Here it is:

• Abstinence (2-3 weeks)

• TRT (double to triple dose @ POIS onset) PLUS moderate daily dose 365 days/year

• Benadryl (high doses for “extra” sleep, including daytime) @ POIS onset plus 1st 1-2 days

Until more formal POIS Research is conducted (2020-2021!) this is as far as I will go with experimentation.

I'm glad to see TRT still works for you, I know it has been part of your anti-POIS arsenal for many years  :) And it's good that your experimentation led you to a good solution.

We can theorise all we want about why POIS happens, but most of the people on this forum who have found a solution did so through experimentation.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 10:10:33 PM by demografx »

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #524 on: June 28, 2020, 10:54:27 PM »

We can theorise all we want about why POIS happens, but most of the people on this forum who have found a solution did so through experimentation.


Excellent & accurate point, hurray!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business