Author Topic: MATRIX METHOD-- BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF - LET GO & ACCEPT YOUR "POIS" SELF  (Read 22257 times)

traderwithpois

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"What if you had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real?  What if you were unable to wake from that dream... how would you know the difference between the real world, and the dream world?"  -- Morpheus

My recent discovery is a bit like waking up from THE MATRIX, when NEO refuses to believe what he is experiencing and being taught when they first unplug him on the Nebuchadnezzar ship.  "This isn't real, I don't believe it" NEO says, as he vomits and then faints.  But it is real...


Update July 16, 2013
Summary of my personal discoveries

  • cornelius is correct.  I have had it all backwards
  • My "POIS" self has been my real self all along, depressed and burnt out from years of stressful, anxious perfectionism
  • The solution is to ACCEPT your real "POIS" self, fully relax and embrace it.  I had to realize it is OK to not be  "perfect" all the time, since no one is perfect anyways.
  • My core inner strength needs rebuilding through exercise and regaining locus of control over life.  Ironically, however, the best way to gain control over life is to stop trying so hard to control everything and instead LET GO of control
  • I was not being gentle with myself and how I function in the world.
  • It's been so long that I have forgotten what it feels like to be a normal person, a normal human BEING, not a human doing.  Normal living & being feels like a comfortable sense of heaviness or even slight fatigue compared to what we are used to.  Normal orgasms are much more gentle, calm, and pleasant.  Brain fog is actually normal thinking, broader, more relaxed, and more logical-- I simply haven't used it in so long that I barely recognize it.  
  • I have had a negative, closed mindset for years now.  Truly positive thinking with an open mind is the solution for me
  • My real self needs a lot of nutrition, some sun exposure, and proper exercise with proper sleep and diet
  • I avoided accepting my real POIS self, therefore became a highly insecure person and wasn't truly comfortable in my own skin, even though I thought I was comfortable in my skin and had become a huge "know it all".  Counting my blessings each day and having faith and trust in myself is crucial nowadays.
  • Letting go of myself, of life, and of always trying to hold onto things has liberated me
  • I had become a person so out of touch with life and love that I stopped smelling the roses outside.  I was existing rather than living.  But trying to live, when you have forgotten how to live, will only stress you out more.  Living happens when you finally stop trying at life, and just give up. A little love goes a long way.  
  • Trying to take tons of vitamins and supplements, without changing your mindset, is ultimately a losing battle since the constant stress, anxiety, and worry will rapidly deplete whatever you feed your body.  Conversely, giving consistent nutrients to your body while in a healthy mindset and state of being, will begin a positive cycle of internal growth and balance
  • Cultivating the mindset of abundance is most important.  I was living in a mindset of lack for years.  Thankfully, it is possible to generate the feeling of abundance within just 10 minutes.  From there, it is a lifelong process of turning that feeling into reality.


Update July 11, 2013

This theory is closely related to cornelius' discovery, that we have it all backwards, but I hope to provide more context and a better way of conceptualizing it all, and how to move forward and how we can nurture our POIS self.  What we perceive as our "non POIS" state may actually be a stressed out, anxious, small minded, negative thought process self which rapidly depletes any vitamins or supplements or help that we give it.  That's why any vitamins or supplementation you take will always be depleted quickly since your stressed out, anxious mindset (which you PERCEIVE to be normal!) is just exhausting all of it very quickly.  An unhealthy orgasm in a negative mindset will surely deplete brain chemicals and body nutrients very quickly too.  We may think we can get through a day of work or a social event easier in that "non POIS" state, but it is not a long term solution, as any success we achieve will be short lived when we return to "POIS".  Instead of trying to "manage" POIS and avoiding the POIS state, just GIVE UP already!

The solution is to ACCEPT our POIS self, LET GO of worry, fear,& concern.  Be gentle with your POIS self, it is your true self just in very critical condition from so much time in neglect.  Your POIS self -- your true self -- needs nutrition, and supplementation, that your body can actually utilize without a negative mindset trying to deplete those resources constantly.  Only when we are relaxed and comfortable, can our body begin to rebuild its reserves for dealing with stress.  "BRAIN FOG" may actually be NORMAL, broader thinking, it's just that it's been so long since we used our normal thinking that we barely even recognize it.  Normal thinking should be gentler, more relaxed, broader, and feel less "on edge".  TAKE A DEEP BREATH IN YOUR "POIS" PHASE.  Get outside of your head.  Try to see your life through the eyes of someone else.  Not everything is bad.  Smell the roses.


Original post July 8, 2013

Earlier today I rubbed one out.  But before doing so, I made a big effort to relax myself. This comes on the heels of many weeks and months of positive thinking, more social activity, multivitamins, superfood algae supplements, exercise, and trying to gain weight, and actually a couple years of recovering from perfectionism after my life imploded.

I got myself comfortable and relaxed before I began.  I tried to make sure I relaxed any part of my body that felt "tense" or as if I was flexing in any way, including my penis.  I increased my overall awareness, go myself out of my head, and focused on simply "being", instead of "doing".  I brought the locus of control to myself, to my whole body, instead of just in my mind.

Instead of thinking about ejaculating as "busting a huge nut" that would deplete my energy afterwards, I instead just tried to "let go"  of anything mentally that I was holding onto, let go of any tension, and focus on being gentle with myself.  I imagined I was having sex, and tried to gently enjoy the sensations, rather than just selfishly choking the monkey.  I made sure not to feel like I was "edging" either.  I did not want to feel any tension, just a continuous process of letting go that would culminate in orgasm.

When I finally let go of my semen, it did not even feel like a choice of whether to cum or not, it just felt like the natural extension of emotionally "letting go".  I almost didn't feel it since it felt more subtle than I am accustomed to, but it felt much more natural and better in a way.  Instead of it feeling like I just lost a huge load of protein and nutrients and energy, I felt NO brain drain!  I was so relaxed that it almost felt like I was urinating a bit while ejaculating too.  I felt only calm, gentle, subtle waves of relaxation through my body.  My orgasm was very calm and fulfilling.

Hours later, I still feel great!  The true test will be how I feel when I wake up tomorrow morning, but I have a feeling I might feel good still!

Fingers crossed, but I am optimistic and will report back soon!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 01:14:38 PM by traderwithpois »

Prancer

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 04:30:09 AM »
You make me want to try this. Now traderwithpois, I'm not at all optimistic that it'll work for me because no matter what I try, I always have moderate to severe brain fog the next few days. But I'm glad it works for you and please let us know how you feel.

Thanks,

Prancer

traderwithpois

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 01:24:01 PM »
Holy shit.  Holy shit.  Holy shit.

I woke up and feel GREAT.  I feel amazing!  I feel refreshed, I feel solid, confident.  I can think clearly.

I have definitely just tapped into something HUGE.  This is closely related to cornelius' "backwards" discovery.

Our "POIS" state is our natural, real self.  The sooner we realize and accept that, the sooner we can focus on accepting ourselves, being gentle with ourselves, and letting go of stress and tension and anxiety.

Hope this lasts.  I think it will.  I feel amazing!

Daveman

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 01:38:36 PM »
Holy shit.  Holy shit.  Holy shit.

I woke up and feel GREAT.  I feel amazing!  I feel refreshed, I feel solid, confident.  I can think clearly.

I have definitely just tapped into something HUGE.  This is closely related to cornelius' "backwards" discovery.

Our "POIS" state is our natural, real self.  The sooner we realize and accept that, the sooner we can focus on accepting ourselves, being gentle with ourselves, and letting go of stress and tension and anxiety.

Hope this lasts.  I think it will.  I feel amazing!

So it IS all in our heads!!  Amazing.

Would never have believed it!

Nothing I can do about the NORD research. We still have to follow it through!

Just in case  ;D
WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

traderwithpois

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 02:18:07 PM »
Daveman--

The mind is a very, VERY powerful thing.  I learned this the hard way after my life imploded on me after college, and I started having health and digestive problems which I only later discovered through my therapist that they stemmed from how I was thinking.  I didn't believe it at first, I was convinced there was something physically wrong, but now I'm convinced it's all in my head.  Negative psychological patterns of thinking can lead to a wide array of physiological symptoms and ailments that are difficult to diagnose and explain.  Simply learning to not worry so much, to relax and be comfortable with ourselves, and gently ACCEPT what life is throwing at us, and not resist, can turn our lives and as a result our bodies into positive growth machines that can quickly repair damaged tissue and cells, etc.

Be gentle with yourself.  Get comfortable. Allow yourself to relax fully from your toes to your mind.  Count your blessings. Think positive and in balanced ways.  When you relax your mind, you allow yourself to think more broadly and expansively.  Stop "trying".  Just "be" your natural self, even if it feels like that natural self is lame, depressed, fatigued, etc.  ACCEPT your natural self.  bring the locus of control back to yourself, to your whole body, instead of always away from yourself.  Be comfortable with not being able to control everything.

Live life gently, as though you are walking on water and floating through life.  We have all been living life in too hard, too vicious, too aggressive of a way.  Worrying, and not being gentle with ourslves, depletes us of all our nutrients and minerals and chemicals that we need.  It depletes them so fast that we can't possibly keep up with them even with tons of vitamins.  This is why some people have had limited success with vitamin supplementation, but you'll always be fighting an uphill battle if your mind is working against you, constantly depleting instead of replenishing and protecting the nutrients that you need.

We have to let go of tension, anxiety.  Open your heart, let love in.  When you love yourself, and you love the world, you let good things in!  It is a very gentle, subtle thing, but it becomes very powerful.

Like I said, my ejaculation yesterday was very different from what I'm used to.  I'm used to it feeling like I have days of cum built up, so I feel a real hard dick with a ton of cum waiting to bust out, which will relieve me of the pressure (and then lead to POIS).  When you get out of your head and feel more balanced and aware overall, and "let go" mentally, suddenly your dick will not feel the same, it will feel as though you've already let go, the urge to "release" is not as strong, since you're in a constant state of release already.  Keep focusing on NOT tensing up.  if you feel your dick clenching or tensing, just let it go......  RELAX completely, all the way up until and through ejaculation.  DO NOT TENSE UP AT ALL.  It will feel a bit weird, but DO NOT TENSE.  You might even feel like you're almost going to urinate, but don't worry.  Relax every part of your body until you're not holding onto anything.  Climax came gently for me.  That's how it should be I think.  That's how it used to be when I was younger.  I think we are all just so tightly coiled with anxiety that we're not being gentle with ourselves, so it takes a lot more for us to "feel" stuff nowadays.  We have become desensitized beta male monkeys.  But we can learn to get in touch with our gentler side again.  We need to slow down, breathe, relax, smell the roses, and be gentle with ourselves.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 02:58:13 PM by traderwithpois »

poisioq

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 07:12:18 PM »
this is a great post from my point of view. It resumes very well what I've been working in the last weeks.
I've noticed that the more I relax and control anxiety when orgasming the less I get pois symptoms.
I'm still not able to release all the tension but I'm working on it.
I don't know whether  pois is in our head or not, but I am sure hidden somewhere in our heads there is the power for autohealing.
we just need to allow our body-mind to do it.
being gentle to our selves is a necessary condition to make it happen

traderwithpois

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 01:01:33 AM »
Just want to add some more info to this thread since my mindset is still fresh from this discovery of mine.

Masturbation/Ejaculation should NEVER be done out of:  Boredom, Stress, Depression, Excessive eating, While on drugs, etc.  I think it should come from a happy, healthy, fully relaxed place mentally.  It should feel like no more and no less than a healthy cleansing bodily activity.  If you are too horny then maybe something else is wrong, maybe you are not doing it often enough, or maybe you are eating the wrong things.  If you are not horny at all and don't truly have much sex drive then maybe you should stop doing it for a while and just abstain.

I guess my point is, relax and search deep within yourself to find the true reason that you want to masturbate, and determine if it is healthy or not.  If its healthy, go for it.  If not, don't.

Daveman

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 07:38:50 AM »
I don't want to be a party pooper, but I do want to be realistic.

I think it's great that you can find relief by taking it slow and preparing the mood. If you can do it that's wonderful. Also it helps to eat well, sleep well and take care of yourself.

I know how powerful the mind is. I meditate, sleep like a baby, can go from all strung out and wound up to extraordinary peace in a matter of minutes, but it took me years to get to that point, AND I STILL HAVE POIS.

POIS IS NOT IN THE HEAD, unless hormonal and/or neurotransmitter imbalance puts it there. The relaxing can help, perhaps tend to short circuit any physical disruption, but if you can completely cure POIS by relaxing you don't have POIS.

It's not bad NOT to have POIS. Obviously. Perhaps you may be one that is mistaking some other ailment with similar symptoms, or even onset, but it's not POIS.

Maybe it's adrenal fatigue or chronic fatigue syndrome.

If you really have POIS you´ll still be here in a year and you will have found that the relaxing helps sometimes, but it's just too hard to keep up.

If it were as you say, I would imagine that there would be millions of people with POIS in the world!

I just don't want people thinking that they've found the cure, only to be disappointed after yet another false start.

I mean go for it. If it helps you that's great. We all need to find something that helps. But let´s not be imagining that POIS is just all in our heads. Before you know it we'll have a growing group of doctors willing to charge us on a continuing basis for the drugs to control our mind.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

traderwithpois

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 10:25:57 AM »
Its ok Daveman.  I understand your doubts.  I have to qualify what I wrote to give more context.  Additionally, my experience yesterday will definitely require further observation to see how long it lasts.

My journey has not been overnight.  Far from it.  After i physically burned out and was let go from a high paying trading job,my therapist helped me to understand my perfectionism, anxiety and depression.  its been nearly two years and i still suffer from anxiety burps all day and if i dont take medication i have acid reflux that could probably burn thru my esophagus. however, i have learned that it really is all mental, hard as it is to believe.

but mental does not mean you can just relax and wish it away overnight.  it takes TIME to improve and relax your mindset.  letting go is a long term process and it seems my recent effort is beginning to pay off hopefully, buts its been weeks, months, and years in the making.  there are many things that will affect your mindset such as:

sun exposure (vitamin D will improve mood)
water
multivitamins (they give mental balance and stability)
other supplements
exercise
better sleep
social activity
good diet
a fun job (gives you purpose and meaning each day)
good hygiene and self care
clean living space
accepting help from others
...and on and on

the point is that all of this is achieved over TIME. It is a process, not a single magic bullet.  it takes a long time to learn how to truly relax.  The fact that we all worry about "retaining" our semen for fear of how we will feel, tells me that i am not alone in needing to "Let Go" of life in general to lighten up and have more fun.  Semen, being the essence of life itself, make sense that this would be a focal point for our problems.  it is a literal manifestation of how we are dysfunctionally thinking.  We are lucky too, in a way, since we have real-time data on our progress-- how long our "symptoms" last.  some of us on this forum are in worse shape than others because they have more to let go of in life before they can live healthily again.  Their recovery will simply take longer.

We have to Let Go.  Let Go of worry, let go of stress.  let go of job or money problems. let go of social anxiety.  let go of fear.  etc

Find your inner comfort, your inner child, as fragile as it may be, and reconnect with it.  do this daily and you will begin seeing improvement.  h
be patient, it will not all change overnight.  Rome was not built in a day.  Be gentle with yourself
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 10:32:35 AM by traderwithpois »

Daveman

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2013, 11:51:45 AM »
Its ok Daveman.  I understand your doubts.  I have to qualify what I wrote to give more context.  Additionally, my experience yesterday will definitely require further observation to see how long it lasts.

My journey has not been overnight.  Far from it.  After i physically burned out and was let go from a high paying trading job,my therapist helped me to understand my perfectionism, anxiety and depression.  its been nearly two years and i still suffer from anxiety burps all day and if i dont take medication i have acid reflux that could probably burn thru my esophagus. however, i have learned that it really is all mental, hard as it is to believe.

but mental does not mean you can just relax and wish it away overnight.  it takes TIME to improve and relax your mindset.  letting go is a long term process and it seems my recent effort is beginning to pay off hopefully, buts its been weeks, months, and years in the making.  there are many things that will affect your mindset such as:

sun exposure (vitamin D will improve mood)
water
multivitamins (they give mental balance and stability)
other supplements
exercise
better sleep
social activity
good diet
a fun job (gives you purpose and meaning each day)
good hygiene and self care
clean living space
accepting help from others
...and on and on

the point is that all of this is achieved over TIME. It is a process, not a single magic bullet.  it takes a long time to learn how to truly relax.  The fact that we all worry about "retaining" our semen for fear of how we will feel, tells me that i am not alone in needing to "Let Go" of life in general to lighten up and have more fun.  Semen, being the essence of life itself, make sense that this would be a focal point for our problems.  it is a literal manifestation of how we are dysfunctionally thinking.  We are lucky too, in a way, since we have real-time data on our progress-- how long our "symptoms" last.  some of us on this forum are in worse shape than others because they have more to let go of in life before they can live healthily again.  Their recovery will simply take longer.

We have to Let Go.  Let Go of worry, let go of stress.  let go of job or money problems. let go of social anxiety.  let go of fear.  etc

Find your inner comfort, your inner child, as fragile as it may be, and reconnect with it.  do this daily and you will begin seeing improvement.  h
be patient, it will not all change overnight.  Rome was not built in a day.  Be gentle with yourself

Please trader!

I know a traders job is right up there with air traffic control. My ex was a trader. Of course you're burned out, and of course relaxing is going to do you wonders.

That kind of stress and lead to other problems that could well resemble POIS, adrenal fatigue and CFS, for instance.

But this stuff about sperm retention anxiety, come on!! For sure we get anxious when we think about sex, but not to the extent that it causes POIS.

I appreciate your advice in relaxing, many can use it , and surely it can help. For that reason I don't really like to be making such a case about all this, but you are really mixing apples with oranges, and your case is not the same as most.

You have/had a completely different stress environment.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

traderwithpois

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 07:05:04 PM »
Please trader!

I know a traders job is right up there with air traffic control. My ex was a trader. Of course you're burned out, and of course relaxing is going to do you wonders.

That kind of stress and lead to other problems that could well resemble POIS, adrenal fatigue and CFS, for instance.

But this stuff about sperm retention anxiety, come on!! For sure we get anxious when we think about sex, but not to the extent that it causes POIS.

I appreciate your advice in relaxing, many can use it , and surely it can help. For that reason I don't really like to be making such a case about all this, but you are really mixing apples with oranges, and your case is not the same as most.

You have/had a completely different stress environment.


I don't completely agree.  I think my experience in recent years thus far has been quite similar to many others'.  When I refer to "semen retention", i'm just talking about the overall concern that we all deal with every day-- how fully aware we all are about when the last time we came was, and where we stand physically and mentally in relation to that, and planning when we will have our next ejaculation, and whether it will conflict with important events coming up.  That is NOT a healthy way to live, it is a form of EXISTING, and it indicates to me a kind of "holding onto" ourselves mentally and emotionally and even physically.  Holding onto what?  Could be different for lots of people.  For me, I was essentially traumatized by a number of experiences, which threw me into a perpetual "fight or flight" state for several years.  That kind of perpetual state uses up all your bodys important resources faster than you can imagine.  Like I said, trying to take vitamin supplements may work a little bit, especially if you take a lot (before hurting yourself), but it's ultimately an uphill battle.  Much easier would be to go to the source of the resource depletion and flip the switch so that instead of depleting, it is revitalizing most of the time.

My POIS symptoms have not been that different from most here, I think.  Following orgasm/ejaculation, I have the fatigue, brain fog, poor sleep, depression, anxiety, acid reflux, lack of appetite, burping, poor memory, nasal congestion and sneezing, basically feeling "sick", etc.... all the typical stuff.  I'm all too familiar with the "cycle" that revolves around ejaculation.  Confidence and energy and clarity of thoughts builds for days, then I ejaculate, and then the "symptoms" set in... only to repeat.  And if I ejaculated a lot in short time frame, it pushed me far below any kind of functional state.

My world is opening up again and I'm realizing how far down I sank in life.  It's depression, it's anxiety, it's an imbalance of brain chemicals, it's a lack of love.  It's a general lack of important nutrients in the body and brain.  It is ALL of the above, caused by an incorrect negative mindset which chokes off real growth-- growth in career, love life, and physical.  The solution is far simpler, but also the most difficult to finally realize, than anyone wants to admit.  It's not a magic pill or shot of niacin that will cure most of us for good.  We need to change how we are perceiving and responding to the world around us.  It is mental, but it becomes physical in everything we do as a result of that.  If you still can't see what I'm talking about, then I suggest you still aren't smelling the roses enough.  Breathe deep.  Get outside of your head.  Have empathy for others and try to see things the way others around you see them, instead of ONLY focusing on your own problems.  Easier said than done, I know.

The opposite of being "gentle" with yourself is to be rough, small minded, negative, and feel the weight of the world.  I read on this forum a while back someone mentioned how they originally tried to "bull through" the POIS, only to have it get even worse.  I had the same experience.  When I used to hear people say things like "be confident", "be a man", "be tough", etc., I was completely misunderstanding how to apply those concepts.  My reaction was to "try" harder, to be rougher with myself and others, to care less... and I was totally shocked when all of that only made things worse over time.  The solution, I think, is what you least expect.  It is to get more comfortable with yourself.  People often say "get out of your comfort zone", to which I reply "No, get INTO your comfort zone".  The solution is to make relaxation and more self indulgent behavior your permanent state to bring the locus of control back to ourselves, which allows us as men to develop our inner strength more and then give back to society and empathize with others etc.  Getting in touch with your feminine side, in a way, can also help you get in touch with your real masculine side.  And when you do that, the positive energy flows, and growth resumes.  
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 07:10:32 PM by traderwithpois »

Prancer

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, 08:08:38 PM »
I tried it and it did not work for me. Also (for me at least) I believe that POIS is something physical, but it definitely causes mental effects (such as brain fog, frustration).

I empathize a lot - way more than I should probably - and am usually always positive and optimistic. Nothing really makes me angry (except POIS, argh!). Yet I still have POIS. But I agree with you about the "macho" or "tough" BS that some people fakely try through their actions. I think kindness and intelligence are the better ways to go in life.

Relaxation is the best thing to do for me too when I have very bad POIS. Also, just because the gentler orgasm experiment didn't work for me doesn't mean it won't work for others. And I'm still glad that some day soon there will be good research into the exact cause of this terrible & very frustrating illness.

Prancer

traderwithpois

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 10:23:35 PM »
I tried it and it did not work for me. Also (for me at least) I believe that POIS is something physical, but it definitely causes mental effects (such as brain fog, frustration).

I empathize a lot - way more than I should probably - and am usually always positive and optimistic. Nothing really makes me angry (except POIS, argh!). Yet I still have POIS. But I agree with you about the "macho" or "tough" BS that some people fakely try through their actions. I think kindness and intelligence are the better ways to go in life.

Relaxation is the best thing to do for me too when I have very bad POIS. Also, just because the gentler orgasm experiment didn't work for me doesn't mean it won't work for others. And I'm still glad that some day soon there will be good research into the exact cause of this terrible & very frustrating illness.

Prancer

Thanks for the new data point, Prancer.  Sorry to hear it didn't work for you, at least on the first try.  This is obviously just a theory and I've only done it once as well, I need many more observations over time to definitively prove anything.  Also keep in mind, the brain fog and frustration you felt might actually be your "normal" self that you are simply not used to anymore.  Read cornelius' thread for more about this.  It may feel like a horrible, painful self to live in all the time, but you just might not be used to it.  When masturbating next time, try not to fret if you feel brain fog or frustration.  Embrace it as though your mind is opening up more for you to actually think more broadly and clearly.  Your pre-masturbation mindset may very well be the stressed, anxious one.

Some additional questions for you:

1) did you ensure that you did not "tense up" your penis WHATSOEVER during the entire masturbation and through orgasm?  By tense up, I mean where you sort of "flex" the penis, kind of like you can move it up and down without touching it.

2) Did you also ensure that no other part of your body tensed up as well?  When I tried this the other day, it was almost like a constant struggle every few seconds to keep myself from tensing up.  I had to constantly relax my feet and toes and hands and head, etc.  It was a big effort to maintain myself in a fully relaxed, "let go" state for the whole duration.

3) Did you notice anything different while masturbating?  Did it feel more subtle to you?  Was it any more or less enjoyable?

4) Have you also been exercising regularly, eating well, taking vitamins/supplements, and thinking positively?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 10:32:02 PM by traderwithpois »

Prancer

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, 11:57:44 PM »
Thanks! Just to be clear first, my pre-masturbation mindset has a lot less brain fog and stress than the post. And the frustration I feel is not general frustration for no reason, but is a direct result of my symptoms (specifically my brain fog/cognitive ones). Also, like many others, I clearly remember my normal self, which was before I was 14 and had POIS, and it was a fun and energetic self, not a stressed and anxious one. I have no reason to be stressed or anxious other than POIS.

I've read through cornelius' thread in the past, and I believe him 100% and am very happy he's cured, but I doubt what he did would work for me or many other sufferers. (Although if it does work for someone else please let us know!)

Just to be clear on one more thing, I do not at all believe POIS is an emotional state (in my case, can't speak for anyone else). I now strongly believe it is as concrete/real/tangible as a cut on the hand or a bump on the head. One reason (of very many) is that POISers get symptoms even after they wake up in the morning after a nocturnal emission, and even IF they never even knew they had an ejaculation. (This has happened to me a few times, but luckily NE's relatively are rare for me.) Another reason is that the muscle spasms, tingling, and inflammation in the scalp that some feel (including me) certainly can't be caused by emotions alone. With that said, there's no doubt POIS can definitely cause emotional problems and depression/anxiety.

PS: the list you mentioned in an earlier post starting with sun exposure, water, vitamins, sleep and exercise, is a really good one and I couldn't agree more!

1) did you ensure that you did not "tense up" your penis WHATSOEVER during the entire masturbation and through orgasm?  By tense up, I mean where you sort of "flex" the penis, kind of like you can move it up and down without touching it.

2) Did you also ensure that no other part of your body tensed up as well?  When I tried this the other day, it was almost like a constant struggle every few seconds to keep myself from tensing up.  I had to constantly relax my feet and toes and hands and head, etc.  It was a big effort to maintain myself in a fully relaxed, "let go" state for the whole duration.

3) Did you notice anything different while masturbating?  Did it feel more subtle to you?  Was it any more or less enjoyable?

4) Have you also been exercising regularly, eating well, taking vitamins/supplements, and thinking positively?

Now for your answers,

1) yep

2) yes

3) a lot less enjoyable, with same symptoms

4) exercise often, eating better than I was, take lots of vitamins, thinking positively is my favorite way to think!  ;)

Colm

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 09:51:09 AM »
Hello Daveman, Prancer, Traderwithpois,

I have tried positive thinking, mindfulness and other mental / emotional approaches to cure my POIS. It has helped me over the years, but my experience, is not a cure from same.

Please allow me to introduce myself on the board, as I may be one of your longer suffering members with what I now see, much to my amazement on your forum, is a recognised condition or illness, POIS. I have been observing the board for a while now.

Every year or two in the last decade I have tried to no avail, to research online and see if there was any medical references to what I thought was a "just me" condition.

Incredibly, I now find later on my life, this POIS information. So I am not alone.

I have suffered with this debilitating condition for 30+, going on 40 years, without knowing it had a community of sufferers or a name called POIS.

I don't know quite how I got to this website, but have mixed emotions now that I have.

It is heartening in some ways to know I am not alone on this planet with these symptoms, these lonely experiences, as I have assumed.

However, from reading the forum, it appears there has been a lack of engagement or enthusiasm in the medical community to acknowledge this condition, to research it's cause and to address a real cure. I do acknowledge all the work, it would appear, that this community has done to get some research going.

I am of course male, 54 years of age, married almost 20 years, with two children. I have tried to deal with this confounding condition pretty much in silence, and without a real sense of hope for having a normal healthy sex life ever beyond avoiding orgasms.

I am a business professional, but have stayed self-employed for over a decade, as my continual symptoms and condition hampers a commitment to normal 5 day 9-5, due to the depression and lowered energy component present when this kicks in immediately with orgasm.

I tend to work 12 hour days, when I feel at my better self, and otherwise half days, if not. My work performance and confidence is linked to the volume and presence of POIS symptoms.

I have generally got on with things as best I can, avoiding intimacy more than I would like, restricting intercourse and masturbation, particularly if I know an important business or social event is coming up within three days.

It is only honest to say my relationships have been impacted by severe POIS in my 20's and in my marriage to my wife of close on 20 years.

Only once in this timescale of being effected by the condition have I been able to confide the true nature of what occurs with me, to another human.

Where I grew up , sexual matters would not traditionally have been aired very much privately, never mind in public. More open now of course.

Since I can remember (from late teens at least), post orgasm, I have suffered skins problems (seborhaeic dermatitis, with a severe sunshine allergy) on my scalp, and face, chest and thighs. I get headaches, low energy and flu like symptoms with a moderate to severe social phobia and feelings of isolation, all post Orgasm.  

I experience really bad dull headaches on awakening every morning. Sometimes I can feel in the am, like I have been hit by a bus t.b.h. Also, tensions that have been present within me post O, begin to subside about 3 days after orgasm. In my 20's, I was seriously irritable for 3 days post orgasm.

All symptoms kick in at their most pronounced state for up to 3 days plus post orgasm.

In my 20's, up to two weeks abstinence would pretty clear all of the psychological, emotional and physical symptoms of my pois.

However, as I have become older, the symptoms, while reducing after three days, are always there. It seems things are more chronic and difficult to shift.

Because of the social phobia and alienation aspects to this in my teens and early 20's, I was hospitalised with a complete nervous breakdown related to the isolation and impact of the condition.This was during the early 80's, when the skin flare up was very bad.

I have tried so many things to help myself, many many (like positive mental approaches, meditation etc) without giving me hope of resolution, a lot helping with individual symptoms, like knowing that the need for exercise if I am depressed about my health,  using special creams/shampoos for the skin reactions to Orgasm, and use of nasacort nasal spray last 20 years as my nasal passages well and block up post Orgasm.

I do live my life now, as best I can, am reasonably well sometimes (a week away from orgasm). I try to focus on other things in my life, like my two growing children, family/friends (none who know about my POIS). I also focus a lot on my work for a living, which my success has been impacted significantly by and a few hobbies.

Some 15 years back, I plucked up the courage to go to my GP and tell him what was happening to me, in general terms.

He (was focused on my am headaches) and agreed to have me tested for two days in hospital with a well reknowned general physician where I live. The tests found nothing, so it was suggested to me I was suffering from depression and should take meds, which I haven't. I suspect the label hypochondriac was maybe put on me. This only brings more self blame, for a condition I don't understand. I know I am not a depressed person, it comes on around the symptoms of this condition. Also, when I used have more nocturnal orgasms, it would still be the same, as with other ejacs.

I know that any depression that I experience in life is situational and made worse by my POIS or the auto-response that occurs.

There is something that happens in my system also, post O'g. A major depletion in something or a negative immune response to the release of semen. That is what I have now known for decades and has me avoiding, even though I have needs.

I am glad to have landed here in some ways. I will try some of the suggested symptom reduction methods, although will try avoiding becoming neurotic about trying things, as I did years back, trying desperately anything and some silly cures.

I hope to hear back from someone here, and with some hope as to what might happen as a result of your efforts to get some research done.

Thanks for allowing me to share on the forum.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 09:42:55 AM by Colm »

traderwithpois

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Re: BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF -- *fingers crossed*
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2013, 12:20:57 PM »

I hope to hear back from someone here, and with some hope as to what might happen as a result of your efforts to get some research done.

Thanks for allowing me to share on the forum.

Colm

Colm,

First, thanks for sharing your experience.  Considering what you have been through for 40 years, you are to be commended for your continued optimism and your efforts to move forward with your life and have a family.  You have a lot to be thankful for, so count your blessings each and every day.  Being self employed is truly a great thing to be, I am self employed too and it's great to be able to work or relax whenever I want and not have to answer to anyone but myself!  Speaking objectively, it IS normal for men to need more time for recovery after sex and ejaculation as they get older.  This is well documented in the scientific community, I think.  So even if you were operating at what you would consider to be an optimal level every single day, that's not to say that your life would be that much different anyways, so don't beat yourself up too much.  Plus, sex always complicates relationships.  I don't think my parents have had sex in decades either.  Everyone knows that sex pretty much stops after marriage.

I have some additional questions for you, and also some advice I'd like you to try in the coming weeks.  Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.  I am trying to springboard off of Cornelius' discovery to further articulate and develop a theory which I think might help others here.

Questions:
1) Do you fully trust yourself?  Do you have any long term underlying feelings of inadequacy or low self esteem, that are not POIS related?  Did you have any significant job, relationship, or life "failures" or setbacks years ago that you have not "let go" of, accepted, and forgiven yourself for?

2) Do you exercise regularly, eat a well balanced diet, take vitamins/supplements, get sufficient sun exposure, social activity, etc ?

3) You mention you get severe social phobia during your POIS phase.  Have you ever actually taken concrete steps to address this issue, as opposed to just waiting until you are out of your POIS phase before tackling any social situations?

4)  You mention you work 12 hour days when you feel at your "better self", and only half days, or not at all, during the POIS phase.  Has it ever occurred to you that the days you work 12 hours, are the days when you are not actually at your "better self", but instead your worse self?  What I mean is, it can be quite stressful for anyone to work 12 hour days.  Perhaps you have become so accustomed to getting work done in that stressed out and anxious state, that you have begun to associate it with the "better you", while neglecting your real, non-stressed out self on the other days.

My theory, similar to cornelius', is that we need to accept and embrace our POIS state, for it is our "true self".  It is our self that we have not spent sufficient time nurturing and embracing, caring for and developing, and giving it the proper nutrients it needs to live rather than just exist.  What we perceive to be BRAIN FOG in "POIS" may actually just be our true self, our true clarity of thought.  It may not feel like very clear, focused concentration to us, but that's only because we are so accustomed to concentrating in a stressful and anxious mindset.  I propose that "brain fog" is actually a broader, healthier mindset that we simply are not EMBRACING.

I believe that when we take vitamins and supplements and exercise, etc. in the "non-POIS" phase (what we PERCEIVE to be our better self), we may feel temporary relief, but not lasting relief, since our mindset in that phase is ACTUALLY an unhealthy, stressed out, anxious mindset.  So any supplementation or helpful activities or vitamins you give to your body and mind in that state, will ultimately just be depleted quickly by unhealthy thinking, and ultimately when you have an unhealthy orgasm with that same unhealthy mindset which depletes brain chemicals and physical nutrients too.

To break this cycle, relax and accept your POIS self.  When you're in your "POIS" state, LET GO of any worries or fears or concerns you have.  Be gentle with your POIS self.  Count your blessings and remind yourself of all the good things you have even in that state of mind and body.  Accept that that is who you are, and plan to improve it.  Your POIS self is your true self, but in critical condition at the moment.  He desperately needs vitamins and nutrients and for you to be gentle with him.  He needs a confidence boost, he needs social experience, and exercise.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 12:29:13 PM by traderwithpois »

Colm

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Thanks for taking the time to reply, traderwithpois.

I will try to answer your post and will always remain open-minded and accepting, which is my nature.

"As I am older, it's not to say that your life would be that much different anyways, so don't beat yourself up too much."
Maybe my life would not be different without POIS? Well, I am certain I would not have avoided sex as much as I have and do. I would not experience the symptoms that are part of this.

Your Question 1. I absolutely know that along with my POIS, is that I have had a challenge on self esteem (which for me my self confidence grows as my symptoms recede).

I grew up in a wealthy large family home (10), and some things impacted me as a teen, including the start of POIS like symptoms. I have undergone counselling for over 20 years, of one sort or another. But I do not know if there is a link between my POIS symptoms and the environment I grew up in. I don't believe it matters, as I have recovered a lot from any emotional impacts through counselling, but the symptoms from POIS have not improved along the same lines.

Letting go is something I have had to do a lot of, and I don't carry much, if any negativity toward others. I am pretty forgiving, so am not carry a lot of emotional baggage.

Q2. Yes, to all, I regularly do all, except I cannot tolerate direct sunlight as it irritates my dermatitis.

Q3. Yes, I have learned to use positive visualisation, meditation and Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT / Acupuncture type treatment) to energise me and enable me to socialise, although sometimes I do give in and say to myself, I don't feel like meeting up.  I don't drink alcohol (beyond one drink occasionally, as it doesn't work for me, and in fact seems to very negatively impact any wellbeing options). I also don't smoke.

Q4. Yes, the 12 hour day (rarely twelve overall, it has breaks and I enjoy the work I do mostly, although I take your point, and have had workaholic tendencies for many years, but I am aware of my tendency. Your point is well made.

I do understand the points around uncovering our true self, peeling the onion so to speak and evolving as an emotional person. I have been working at the emotional and psychology side of this for many years, but I am convinced that there is still a large physiological element to this condition, that it is not all at the level of self.  

I have tried minerals, vitamins, potions, Chinese medicine, every ology and every therapy, spending a lot of money over many years. While overall, stuff has helped bits and pieces, it has not helped as much, I believe, as getting to the root of what goes on physiologically, DNA wise, brain wise, immune wise or other, when me, as a POIS sufferer has an orgasm.

I will admit, that in my earlier days with the condition, that relaxing and letting go did help a bit to return me to a better state (post 3 days). As I have grown older, it does not make any difference, for me that is, maybe for others it will. I am only sharing my own experience and trying to be honest, and I totally respect others opinions.

When I have more time, I will re-read your suggestions, think about trying some of what you say, and I will read more of the posts here, the forum overall and try and provide some valid contributions.



 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 10:10:46 AM by Colm »

b_jim

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When I'm not stressed I save cortisol which can be used to fight Pois inflammation...
Taurine = Anti-Pois

traderwithpois

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Cheers for now and thanks for acknowledging my post.
Colm

Thanks for the responses.  I want you to know, sincerely, from what I have read of your posts, that even though you may be suffering all the time for 40 years, it sounds to me like you have made emotional progress from your upbringing, and you are lucky to be self employed, and lucky to have what sounds like a great wife who doesn't require tons of intimacy, and you have children so despite your "POIS" you clearly fulfilled your life's purpose of procreation!  Kudos, man!  Some of us can't even form a relationship, so, once again, don't beat yourself up too much!  It sounds like you've done quite well!

I sensed, from reading your post, that you could STILL benefit tremendously from what I have stumbled upon.  It sounds like, even though you are familiar with the concept of letting go, you might still be able to let go further.  I personally wish to challenge you to let go FURTHER.  If it means giving yourself some time off from career to reacquaint yourself with your "POIS self", then so be it.  Take a break from the 12 hour work days for a while.  Get more comfortable with those half days.  Really try to embrace them in all their misery.  Do NOT fight them.  Just relax and try to enjoy them as hard as it may seem.  Just accept them and settle in.  Tell yourself it's OK if it doesn't all feel "perfect".  Nothing is perfect.  Stop trying so hard to "manage" and make sure you are feeling "perfect" and at your "best self" all the time.  Embrace the imperfection and relax.  Just "be" when you're in your down state.  Let your mind give up completely  .  If you think you've given up all you can, then take some more deep breaths and give up even more.  I have a feeling once you do that, you might begin to enjoy those half days a bit.  Then you might even want to get some more real work done on those half days.  

This theory I am working on is about fully embracing how pathetic our POIS state is, because only when we do that, can we begin to move forward.  As you know, truly letting go is a PROCESS.  Nothing happens overnight and neither you nor I should expect your perceived problems to resolve overnight.  If you've been dealing with this for 40 years, it could take a few years before you get back to a good place.  ACCEPT THAT REALITY.  But it might be worth it in the end!  Imagine how awesome it would be if you were approaching 60 and suddenly felt reinvogorated and had some sex drive.  I don't want to fill your mind with false hopes, I just want to offer a breath of fresh air... Things like this DO happen to people, when they let life and love in finally in a huge way!  Even your wife, who doesn't require that much intimacy, might want some of that action as you two get older...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 03:19:43 PM by traderwithpois »

Colm

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I appreciate all you say traderwithpois. I will take it all on board. Later at night here, so I will probably reply to you tomorrow some time. I have a lot to reflect on.