Author Topic: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023  (Read 2552 times)

Muon

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Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« on: January 26, 2024, 01:23:24 PM »
Clinical characteristics, allergic response to autologous semen, and desensitization in patients with postorgasmic illness syndrome

Paper specific discussion thread

Hormone abnormalities in 7 out of 13 patients:

High Progesterone (4/13)
Elevated Prolactin (2/13)
Low Testosterone (2/13)
Reduced Estradiol (1/13)

They do not mention sexual arousal as trigger. I wonder if patients with hormone abnormalities have relapse from sexual arousal.

Muon

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Re: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2024, 12:14:07 PM »
I doubt this is a statistical accurate hormone abnormality distribution for POIS because of the low amount of participants. Mind you that Progesterone is often being skipped in hormone test panels for men. This study may show that high progesterone is twice as likely to be found than low testosterone (31% vs 15%). Studies with larger number of patients are needed to confirm this. 20+ years of POIS research have passed and not a single attempt has been made to measure vitamin D.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2024, 12:17:09 PM by Muon »

Hopeoneday

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Re: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2024, 07:42:28 PM »
20+ years of POIS research have passed and not a single attempt has been made to measure vitamin D.
Hi Mn, thats why we did it, when you look at tests results of vitamine
D in poisers, 95% or more of us hawe a wery small vitamine D levels.
If I am not wrong, from my search of gntcs tests results,"99%" of poisers hawe double mutation of VDR-tag receptors or other vit D receptors.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 07:49:03 AM by Hopeoneday »
Dr-pois.

Warrior

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Re: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2024, 08:54:46 PM »
20+ years of POIS research have passed and not a single attempt has been made to measure vitamin D.
Hi Mn, thats why we did it, when you look at tests results of vitamine
D in posers, 95% or more of us hawe a wery samll vitamine D levels.
If I am not wrong, from my search of gntcs tests results,"99%" of poisers hawe double mutation of VDR-tag receptors or other vit D receptors.

I think POIS as an inflammatory condition depletes vitamin D levels far quicker than normal. You could say that our vitamin D needs are higher because of this. Not medical advice but I feel best on 20,000iu supplementation per day. I also work inside a warehouse though so I don’t always get much sun. Any lower than 20,000iu and my POIS symptoms get worst. Also take with K2.
Nothing I say is medical advice. Always do your own research. Follow anything I say at your own discretion.
My POIS Protocol | My YouTube Channel

Muon

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Re: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2024, 08:39:28 AM »
Sex and disease severity-based analysis of steroid hormones in ME/CFS (2023)

Significant increase in progesterone levels in male and female ME/CFS mild/moderate (ME/CFSmm) subgroup compared to healthy controls.

Transporters for Progesterone are corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG) and to a lesser extent albumin. Binding increases half-life of steroid hormones.

Progesterone: the forgotten hormone in men?

Endogenous Progesterone and the Exogenous Progestin Norethisterone Enanthate Are Associated with a Proinflammatory Profile in Healthy Men

What proinflammatory profiles are associated with the other hormone levels? Is there any overlap between profiles?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 10:03:43 AM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2024, 07:45:52 AM »
Im a female so my progesterone naturally fluctates, but i notice during the 2 weeks that my progesterone rises i feel almost constant POIS with flu-like symptoms and fatigue. When my period starts and the 2 weeks before ovulation i feel pretty much normal with no flu symptoms and energy is pretty good most of the time.

Does anyone here know their progesterone levels? Are they high aswell?
there may be a link between your low cholesterol and your high 17alpha-hydroxyprogesterone, since cholesterol is at the beginning of the pathway the leads, among other things, to 17alpha-OH-progesterone ( see at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17%CE%B1-Hydroxyprogesterone, the biochemistry chart).

At least one other user, Crushgrapes, has reported high 17-OHP .  See his post at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=17.msg21127#msg21127 , and also his many other lab results at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2434.msg20546#msg20546.   There are for sure more than one type of POIS, but you are at least two POIS sufferers that has a high 17-OHP level. 

It could be interesting to see of other members has that as well.
I got the combination low cholesterol and high progesterone. It might be linked to more abnormal parameters from my lab results. Plenty of stuff to research.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2024, 08:08:16 AM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2024, 10:54:53 AM »
ChatGPT 3.5:

Q:What could be potential causes of elevated serum progesterone in men?

A:
Elevated serum progesterone levels in men can be indicative of several underlying conditions, though it's relatively rare compared to women. Some potential causes include:

Adrenal Disorders: Conditions such as adrenal tumors or hyperplasia can lead to increased progesterone production. Adrenal glands produce small amounts of progesterone along with other hormones like cortisol.

Testicular Tumors: Tumors in the testes can produce hormones, including progesterone, leading to elevated levels.

Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH): CAH is a group of inherited disorders characterized by abnormal hormone production by the adrenal glands, which can result in elevated progesterone levels.

Hepatic Dysfunction: Liver diseases or dysfunctions can impair the breakdown of hormones, leading to their accumulation in the bloodstream, including progesterone.

Exogenous Sources: In some cases, elevated progesterone levels in men may be due to the use of medications or supplements containing progesterone.

Hypogonadism: This condition occurs when the body doesn't produce enough testosterone or sperm, and it can sometimes lead to imbalances in other hormones, including progesterone.

Obesity: There's some evidence suggesting a potential link between obesity and altered hormone levels, though the mechanisms aren't fully understood. Obesity might influence hormone metabolism and secretion.

Stress: Chronic stress can impact adrenal function, potentially leading to increased progesterone production along with other stress-related hormonal changes.

If someone suspects they have elevated progesterone levels, it's important for them to consult with a healthcare professional for proper diagnosis and management. Testing and evaluation by a healthcare provider can help identify the underlying cause and determine the appropriate treatment plan.

Q: What inflammatory  molecules are able to increase serum progesterone levels in men? Consider enzymes that may alter progesterone levels and their interaction with inflammatory molecules.

Inflammatory molecules can influence serum progesterone levels in men through various mechanisms, including interactions with enzymes involved in progesterone synthesis and metabolism. Here are some examples of inflammatory molecules and their potential effects on progesterone levels:

Interleukin-6 (IL-6): IL-6 is a pro-inflammatory cytokine that can modulate steroidogenesis in the adrenal glands and gonads. It may stimulate the activity of enzymes involved in progesterone synthesis, such as 17?-hydroxylase/17,20-lyase (CYP17A1), leading to increased progesterone production.

Tumor Necrosis Factor-alpha (TNF-?): TNF-? is another pro-inflammatory cytokine that can influence steroidogenesis. It may inhibit the activity of enzymes involved in progesterone metabolism, such as 3?-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (HSD3B), leading to decreased progesterone clearance and increased serum levels.

Interleukin-1 (IL-1): IL-1 is known to regulate steroidogenesis in various tissues. It may affect the expression or activity of enzymes involved in progesterone synthesis or metabolism, leading to alterations in progesterone levels.

Cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) and Prostaglandins: COX-2 is an enzyme involved in the synthesis of prostaglandins, which are lipid mediators with inflammatory properties. Prostaglandins can modulate steroidogenesis and may influence progesterone levels indirectly through their effects on enzyme activity or hormonal regulation.

Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS): ROS are reactive molecules generated during inflammation. They can affect the activity of enzymes involved in steroidogenesis, including those related to progesterone synthesis and metabolism, potentially leading to changes in progesterone levels.

Nitric Oxide (NO): NO is a signaling molecule produced during inflammation. It can modulate steroidogenesis by influencing the expression or activity of enzymes involved in hormone synthesis pathways, including those related to progesterone production.

Matrix Metalloproteinases (MMPs): MMPs are enzymes involved in tissue remodeling and repair during inflammation. They can modulate steroidogenesis by affecting the availability of substrates or cofactors required for enzyme activity, potentially influencing progesterone levels.

These inflammatory molecules can interact with various enzymes involved in progesterone synthesis and metabolism, leading to alterations in progesterone levels in men. The specific effects may depend on the context of inflammation, the tissue involved, and the balance of other regulatory factors in the hormonal milieu.

Q: Answer the previous question again but consider only the class of chemokines instead of all profinflammatory molecules.

Chemokines are a class of signaling molecules primarily known for their role in immune cell recruitment and trafficking during inflammation. While chemokines primarily regulate immune responses, some may indirectly influence steroid hormone metabolism and potentially affect serum progesterone levels in men. Here's how certain chemokines and their interactions with enzymes involved in progesterone metabolism may impact progesterone levels:

CXCL8 (Interleukin-8, IL-8): IL-8 is a chemokine that plays a significant role in inflammation and immune responses. Although IL-8 itself does not directly target enzymes involved in progesterone metabolism, chronic elevation of IL-8 levels can contribute to systemic inflammation. This chronic inflammation may indirectly affect progesterone levels by influencing the activity of enzymes involved in steroidogenesis pathways.

CCL2 (Monocyte Chemoattractant Protein-1, MCP-1): MCP-1 is involved in the recruitment of monocytes and other immune cells to sites of inflammation. While MCP-1 primarily regulates immune responses, it may indirectly influence progesterone levels through its effects on inflammatory processes. Chronic elevation of MCP-1 levels can contribute to systemic inflammation, potentially impacting steroidogenesis and progesterone levels.

CXCL10 (Interferon-gamma-Inducible Protein-10, IP-10): IP-10 is induced by interferon-gamma and plays a role in immune cell recruitment and activation. Like other chemokines, IP-10 primarily regulates immune responses, but chronic elevation of IP-10 levels may contribute to inflammation-mediated alterations in steroidogenesis pathways, potentially affecting progesterone levels indirectly.

CCL5 (Regulated on Activation, Normal T Cell Expressed and Secreted, RANTES): RANTES is involved in the recruitment and activation of various immune cells. While RANTES primarily regulates immune responses, chronic elevation of RANTES levels may contribute to inflammation-mediated changes in steroidogenesis pathways, potentially impacting progesterone levels indirectly.

Q: How do the chemokines you mentioned impact progesterone in men? do they increase or decrease progesterone? Keep your answer short.

The chemokines mentioned primarily induce inflammation, which can indirectly affect progesterone levels by modulating steroidogenesis pathways. The specific impact on progesterone levels can vary but generally tends to be an increase due to the inflammatory environment stimulating the activity of enzymes involved in progesterone synthesis.

Q: Which of the molecules you mentioned in this entire thread are correlated with elevated stress?

Several molecules mentioned in this discussion are correlated with elevated stress levels:

Cytokines (e.g., IL-6, TNF-?, IL-1): Pro-inflammatory cytokines are often elevated in response to stress, as part of the body's inflammatory response. Chronic stress can lead to dysregulation of the immune system, resulting in elevated levels of cytokines.

Cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) and Prostaglandins: COX-2 is induced during inflammation and stress, leading to the production of prostaglandins. Stress can upregulate COX-2 expression, contributing to increased prostaglandin levels.

Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS): Stress can increase the production of ROS, which are generated during inflammatory processes. Elevated stress levels can lead to oxidative stress and an imbalance in ROS production.

Nitric Oxide (NO): Stress can induce the production of NO through various pathways, including the activation of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS). Elevated stress levels may lead to increased NO production, contributing to oxidative stress and inflammation.

These molecules are part of the body's response to stress and play roles in mediating the physiological effects of stress on various systems, including the immune and endocrine systems.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 11:25:03 AM by Muon »

Muon

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Re: Chinese Desensitization Study December 2023
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2024, 02:16:52 PM »
High Progesterone can be a response to brain trauma.