Author Topic: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois  (Read 2956 times)

Hopeoneday

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A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« on: September 15, 2023, 03:12:34 PM »
Write here eny connection you noticed in regards of pois.
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Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2023, 03:57:10 PM »
Candida-pois-antifungals-fluconasole.

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3981.msg42325#msg42325

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/16eqe4q/ive_figured_it_out_yallllll/

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/14b8gzb/cured_with_anti_fungal_meds/

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/1474gk3/candida_thing/

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/14brd3w/oregano_oil_caprylic_acid_a_us10_solution_which/

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/13pgipq/got_cured/

Poisers hawe in comon:
Neutropenia(imunocompromised, how can we fight patogens, fungus?).
Low vit D(imunocompromised).
Low ceruloplasmin(cant cary copper properly eg coper toxic, cant fight
fungus?).
Hawy metals( imunocompromised, fungus lowe hawy metals).
Bloating-SIFO? Smal intesine fungal owergrowth.


If we posers are imunocompromised and pois it self induce imune
drop, then patogens "escape" eg fungus-bacteria...??




« Last Edit: September 15, 2023, 05:25:32 PM by Hopeoneday »
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Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2023, 09:21:40 AM »
How can fluconasole be cure for pois ???
I think that this is for science..
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Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2023, 03:27:35 AM »
Then, if we hawe problems with yeasts(candida etc), than we hawe poisons produced by them like acetaldehyde.
What supplement breaks down acetaldehyde?
Nicotinamide Tablets Break Down Alcohol Byproducts

We can see that a lot of us are imunocompromissed so:

Can fungal infection affect nervous system?
Invasion of the CNS largely depends on the immune status of the host and the virulence of the fungal strain. Infections with fungi cause a significant morbidity in immunocompromised hosts, and the involvement of the CNS may lead to fatal consequences.

Does Candida release endotoxins?
When Candida lives in the body, the substances in the cells of the yeast remain inside it. Treating Candida, however, causes its cells to die. As the cells die, they may release various substances, such as endotoxins and proteins. The release of these harmful substances causes the body to release cytokines.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2023, 03:30:22 AM by Hopeoneday »
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Muon

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2023, 03:57:31 AM »
I do think the mast cell itself is the dot connector.

Quantum

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2023, 06:59:47 AM »
Then, if we hawe problems with yeasts(candida etc), than we hawe poisons produced by them like acetaldehyde.
What supplement breaks down acetaldehyde?
Nicotinamide Tablets Break Down Alcohol Byproducts

We can see that a lot of us are imunocompromissed so:

Can fungal infection affect nervous system?
Invasion of the CNS largely depends on the immune status of the host and the virulence of the fungal strain. Infections with fungi cause a significant morbidity in immunocompromised hosts, and the involvement of the CNS may lead to fatal consequences.

Does Candida release endotoxins?
When Candida lives in the body, the substances in the cells of the yeast remain inside it. Treating Candida, however, causes its cells to die. As the cells die, they may release various substances, such as endotoxins and proteins. The release of these harmful substances causes the body to release cytokines.
Hi HOD,
If you think you have a problem with acetaldehyde, you have to support the liver enzyme that is responsible for eliminating it.  It is called ALDH2.   So, you could take vitamin C, vitamin B1 ( thiamin), and magnesium, that are all supporting ALDH2.
Some niacin or nicotinamide is also useful, but you already mentioned it ( ALDH2 needs also NAD+ as a cofactor). 

Obviously, avoid alcohol as much as possible, and if not possible, take only one or two consummations but over a long time, so your ALDH2 elimination capacity does not get overwhelmed. Alcohol, when eliminated, produces a lot of acetaldehyde.  Avoiding substances heavily taxing the liver, like Tylenol ( acetaminophen, paracetamol) is a good idea as well.

Anything good for the liver will also help do detoxify it whenever it is affected by too much acetaldehyde in it.  Milk Thistle is one of the best supplements to regenerate hepatic cells.  I use it very often.
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2023, 02:51:31 PM »
I do think the mast cell itself is the dot connector.
Hi Muon, yeah, can fungus trigger mast cells, or maybe basophils to?

Hi Quantum, there are more than 6-7 case that hawe 0 pois if
taken fluconasole properly, so i am trying to connect dots how?
Is candida suscess to go trought epiteliel somwhere
and go in blod and CNS to??...Acetaldehyde is yust one of toxic
bioproducts of candida and niacin was my connection.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2023, 02:58:32 PM by Hopeoneday »
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Cursed

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2023, 12:22:25 PM »
This is a very good thread and indeed, there needs to be a unifying theory for all of the improvements seen in this forum and elsewhere.

I think there are at least a three things that we all can agree on: neurotransmitters, mast cells and gut.

Let's take an example - matcha.

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3746.0;topicseen

Matcha will increase enpinephrine and norepinephrine, which by itself may be significant enough, because of its action on the vascular tone, etc, but increased epinephrine will also help to inhibit mast cells. In addition to that, green tea has an effect on H2S producing species - Desulfovibrio and Fusobacterium, which are involved in H2S SIBO, which leads us to... Bismuth. There's also a thread on Pepto bismol, which contains bismuth and bismuth is known tk suppress H2S production and bacteria. Of course, bismuth has a lot of other modes of action, so there can be other explanations, like its protection of GI mucosa, which leads us to diets that have been reported to be helpful, Candida and fluconazole and so on...

This is just an example of how all of these treatments interconnect and aren't really targeting completely different things. I admit the H2S is a bit of a leap, because the thread author gets immediate benefits and it probably wouldn't work so fast to reduce H2S, but that's not the point.

As Muon said, I agree that it probably boils down to mast cells mainly and I think the recent Omalizumab case study supports that. However, we have to ask ourselves why the mast cells are too reactive? One of the explanations is that it's the gut barrier and the infiltration of pathogenic, or perhaps even normal bacterial flora that shouldn't be there. It should be in the mucus layer, slightly seperated from the epithelial cells, but it is eitherperiodically or continuously invading the mucosa and triggerint immune response and by extension mast cells, causing oxidative stress, which then destroys BH4 and reduces neurotransmitters, which then contributes to even more mast cell activation, hemodynamic instability, etc etc... Also, the aforementioned acetaldehyde and other bacterial toxins, like LPS, etc, which also could be related to taurine as a number of members reported (me included), which as it turns out hells wiyh ALDH and acetaldehyde: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10821139/ as well as some studies point to reduction of allergy symptoms..


I think it's also possible that there is an overexaggerated vasoconstrictive response, caused by low norepinephrine and perhaps mast cells, which also contributes to the POIS symptoms by causing a transient gut injury (due to vasoconstriction and hypoxia) releasing bacteria and bacterial toxins into the blood until it heals again, which is when the POIS symptoms mostly stop.

There are a few other questions. If someone has candida or sibo or whatever, you have to ask why? E.g. genetic issues can cause yeast overgrowth: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9764646/

I believe it's wrong that some people, at least historically (maybe that changed) used to to view this illnees as something that happens only after orgasm. That lead to theories like sperm allergy, etc, which are very unlikely, perhaps in very few cases, but not in general. I'm more of the opinion that everyone with this syndrome is not in optimal health and has issues that need to be fixed. Those issues may not be apparent if you lived like that all your life, btw. Of course, it's good to have prevention measures that work 'on demand', but ultimately, there are things that need to be addressed. Those include: nutritional deficiencies, pathogens or overgrowths in the gut and elsewhere, possible metabolic issues due to genetic mutations. This may not always be easy, but it can be done, especially since this population isn't too sick. I myself have MECFS in addition to POIS and it makes it extremely challenging as I don't tolerate a lot of supplements, etc.

We have to understand that all of these issues are cycles that feed into one another. It's not just e.g. candida or SIBO causes leaky gut and MCAS, but also they will contribute to nutritional deficiencies, etc. All the cycles connect to one another, so ideally, everything needs to be addressed more or less at the same time.

If you want to dive deeper, I recommend two resources. For nutritional deficiencies and genetic mutations I recommend looking into Chris Masterjohn.

You may also want to look into BornFree and Joshua's protocol. Some of the things I have said are taken from his work. I don't subscribe to everything he says, I think it has flaws and the protocol may be dangerous for sick people, but the framework is useful and can help open your eyes to some possibilities. I think his view on POIS is a overly simplistic, but it doesn't really change anything much, because it all revolves around same pillars and mostly same interventions. He doesn't "believe" in genetic mutations and their impact or doesn't think they're important, that's why I mentioned Masterjohn, because he does and he's also very scientific and honest and doesn't really go beyond evidence, while Joshua does.

Be careful and don't buy into the hype of this being the end all be all, if you decide to go this way..
https://bornfree.life/understanding-the-model/6/updated-disease-model-wip/45

I've seen that Muon has posted a few links to BornFree in the past, but I think the model has become more developed since then and may be worth a look.

Anyway... enough for today.


Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2024, 01:01:22 PM »
Pois-myositis connection, do pois induce myositis in poisers?

Elevated creatine kinase, CK, in three poisers:Gzbking, Nanna1 and
Progecitor. Elevated CK is marker of muscules inflamation eg
myositis, autoimunne i think..
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Progecitor

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2024, 04:50:32 PM »
Pois-myositis connection, do pois induce myositis in poisers?

Elevated creatine kinase, CK, in three poisers:Gzbking, Nanna1 and
Progecitor. Elevated CK is marker of muscules inflamation eg
myositis, autoimunne i think..

I think the high creatine kinase is just another proof of the high rate of ongoing lipid peroxidation, which is evidently the underlying issue in my case. While lipid peroxidation is also involved in myositis, the 7-day POIS step-down would suggest the sexual organs as the primary source of ROS. Of course I have a combined case of POIS/CFS and exercise intolerance causes an aggravation of symptoms, thus multiple sources of ROS could be also hypothesized. Even so ejaculation is clearly the more extraordinary escalator.
Actually about 3 years ago I bought a light microscope and more than a year ago at one time I checked my sperm. The spermatozoa seemed lively enough, so I did not bother with them afterwards. I also did not use the best magnification as it involves some special preparation. Even if I did I am not a professional, so I can’t really say what counts as abnormal. Maybe I should check the ejaculate more often in the future, but after an O I am really not in the mood to do something that is such a hassle.
Instead I was considering to go and see a professional to ask for a spermatogram and see if they could possibly check for leukocytospermia, which is a very prospective marker.

Previous studies have suggested that a defect in the normal regulation of spermiogenesis may lead to the abnormal production of immature spermatozoa with cytoplasmic retention that produce high levels of ROS.
The overall rate of lipid peroxidation of spermatozoa in vitro is mainly determined by oxygen concentration and temperature in the extracellular medium, ROS production, the presence of antioxidant enzymes in spermatozoa, and the concentration of membrane-bound docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). The higher the temperature and oxygen concentration in the medium, the higher the rate of lipid peroxidation as measured by malondialdehyde production.
We have recently reported that there is a significant loss of DHA in human spermatozoa during the process of sperm maturation. This may be part of the genomically regulated cellular maturational steps that take place within the adluminal compartment of the seminiferous epithelium. By the time spermatozoa arrive at the epididymis, these events are completed. If these events do not occur, immature spermatozoa in the ejaculate would exhibit cytoplasmic retention and a high rate of lipid peroxidation. Huszar and Vigue reported high levels of malondialdehyde and high creatine kinase activity in oligozoospermic patients. Increased production of ROS has been reported in patients whose spermatozoa have excess residual cytoplasm. There have been several additional reports suggesting a possible metabolic alteration related to irregular spermatogenesis. In addition, a close correlation has been reported between ROS production and the stage of development, being highest in immature spermatozoa.
This suggests that perhaps interventions directed to increase antioxidant levels in the spermatozoa and Sertoli cell membranes during spermatogenesis may be of particular benefit to these patients in which a defect in the normal regulation of spermiogenesis and spermiation leads to an abnormal increase in ROS-producing immature spermatozoa, as previously suggested.

https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/16/9/1922/2915893
The cause is probably the senescence of sexual organs and resultant inducible SASP, which also acts as a kind of non-diabetic metabolic syndrome.

Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2024, 04:44:29 PM »
SAM-e - Pois - connection:

S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) is produced in the liver from methionine. SAMe may reduce inflammation and have direct analgesic effects at central or peripheral levels, potentially mediated through inhibition of cyclooxygenase (COX).
S Adenosylmethionine - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

Does SAM-e really work?
Some studies have found that oral SAM-e is as effective as NSAID painkillers, such as ibuprofen and Celebrex. SAM-e takes longer to act than drugs do, but it also has fewer side effects than NSAIDs. SAM-e has also been used to treat depression for many years.21 apr. 2023


What does SAM-e do to the body?
S-Adenosylmethionine (SAMe) is a naturally-occurring compound found in almost every tissue and fluid in the body. It is involved in many important processes. SAMe plays a role in the immune system, maintains cell membranes, and helps produce and break down brain chemicals, such as serotonin, melatonin, and dopamine.
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Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2024, 04:36:33 PM »
Pois-immunity drop, compromised immunity in poisers.

Aside from neutropenia wich is big factor in inate immunity,
a lot of poisers feels a big drop of immuity in pois episodes.
Our immunity is simply not cappable to carryout a pois
episode, but et the end, it manage somehow, and we survive.
We are sometimes "like hiv" patients in pois.
  https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/1bttxdk/extremely_reduced_immunity_on_pois/
« Last Edit: April 03, 2024, 04:53:27 PM by Hopeoneday »
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Hopeoneday

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Re: A topic for connecting the dots related to pois
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2024, 04:43:35 PM »
Pois-autoimmunity-yoint dammaging.

In my case, few years ago, pois starded to destroying my hips.
My solution for this was gluten free diet, or 99% reducing it
from diet.
So, if enybody from reddit read this, maybe can be helpfull.

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/1bthzfv/osteoarthritis_due_to_pois/
« Last Edit: April 03, 2024, 04:46:01 PM by Hopeoneday »
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