Thiamine Megadoses (Vitamin B1) and Thiamine Analogs

[Sisyphus]

@kosmo35. Glad to hear you feel you are benefitting overall with this so far and I hope you keep making progress. If you have time, I have a few more questions:-
Why so much Mg?
Did you have anal itching before you started Benfotiamine?
Did you still get pois symptoms during the 110 days of abstinence or did the pois symptoms go away for 110 days only to re-appear when you stopped abstaining?

I still intend to try benfotiamine. It's on my "to do" list. Just too busy at the moment. Also, I'm a little undecided what to try next and I only like to try one thing at a time. If I change more than one thing, I get confused.

[kosmo35]

Hi sisyphus, I'm happy to answer your questions:
I don't think the dose of magnesium is enough to be considered a megadose. The company that manufactures the supplement I purchased recommends taking one scoop, equivalent to 425 mg. Magnesium is fundamental in the process of thiamine activation, so much so that people who are deficient in one are also deficient in the other.
Yes, I have had anal itching for 5 years now, when I started suffering from all these problems. The only thing that has eased it so far is the benfotiamine. It's possible that the anal itching is a symptom of seborrheic dermatitis, which I no longer have on my scalp since I took the supplements, but I don't understand if it went away thanks to the B vitamins or the zinc...
During the 110 days of abstinence I had slight improvements in self-esteem and social skills, but I still had brain fog, runny nose, digestive problems, cold intolerance, pots, shortness of breath etc.
My POIS was unfortunately only greatly aggravated by an orgasm, but I suffered from any activity involving a large involvement of the autonomic nervous system, such as high intensity physical activity, stressful events and even showering.
I also wasn't able to handle the insulin spikes every time I ate a high-carb meal.
During the 110 days, however, the actual POIS returned every time I had a wet dream, so approximately every 12/14 days.

[Sisyphus]

Thanks kosmo35.

I have seborrheic dermatitis (chest and back) as well. I also get anal itching which I've been told by my GP is also seborrheric dermatitis. Either way, I believe it is a pois symptom (for me anyway). That's encouraging that you think benfotiamine has eased this. For reference, I've taken low dose B vitamins and Zinc before and they didn't have much affect on my seborrheic dermatitis but Vitamin D3 does help somewhat.

My Mg levels are optimum (no supplements, just diet) so I'm reluctant to take a Mg supplement but from what you say, it sounds like I might need to in order to activate the thiamine. For myself, I think I would try to do it with a smaller dose, maybe 100mg.

Sounds like you still got a lot of pois symptoms despite abstaining for a long time. Those wet dreams can be a curse for poisers.

[b_jim]

I think I will make a try with benfothiamine soon.

[Sisyphus]

I am starting with thiamine this week. Initially I will use a small amount of sublingual thiamine mononitrate and will add benfotiamine later. Poco a poco!
Thanks Berlin for this thread and kosmo35 for renewing it.
More to follow.

[kosmo35]

Good luck sisyphus!
Small note: I think it is better to take the dose you want spread over the day rather than in a single dose, at least for cases where the overall dose you want to integrate into a day is high (such as over 300 mg) . I've noticed that if I try to take the entire 900 mg dose in one go I don't feel particularly good.
It is known that thiamine transporters in cells have a saturation limit and it makes no sense to take beyond that limit.
But if the dose is particularly low then it is better not to break it further.
I'm currently testing TTFD instead of benfotiamine and it seems to have different effects on my body.
It seems to act more effectively on my mind, perhaps because it is better able to penetrate the blood-brain barrier. I do not know.
The dose I take is 100 mg in the morning and 300 mg benfotiamine in the evening.
From what I have learned from other people's experiences 100 mg of TTFD is approximately equivalent to 300 mg of benfotiamine.

[Andre2505]

hello cosmos and hello guys, I started the protocol a week ago and I took 40 mg of benfiotamine for the first 5 days, now I've been taking 80 mg for ten days, I think I'll keep this dose for another 4/5 days and then move on to 100 mg per day. Do you think it works or should I increase it more gradually? I also take from 2 to 5 g of magnesium chloride hexahydrate (which I don't know how many mg of magnesium citrate corresponds to) but you need to take more in powder form, on the internet they recommend 2 to 5 g (if anyone knows how many mg of citrate correspond, let me know). Then I don't take B complex, I do the ketogenic diet with a lot of meat and I have vitamin B12 higher than the normal range, vitamin B9 is good and choline is also high. I haven't added potassium for now but I eat a banana every day, also several peaches and apricots which still contain some. Also because I know that if you take too much potassium you can cause damage. But I don't know, I should find a safe dose that doesn't cause side effects. Cosmo 35 let me know what you think of all this man! (If I were to take b-complex every now and then and would still have to take some potassium).

So for now my stack for the vitamin b1 protocol that I've been taking for a week is:
BENFIOTIAMINE:
80 mg/day, to be raised to 100 mg in a few days.

MAGNESIUM: one teaspoon of magnesium chloride ehysadtate (2-5 g).

Reduced glutathione 200 mg per day and nac 300 mg per day.

I already have very high B vitamins, especially B12 which is too high.

I try to introduce potassium a lot through my diet.

Let me know if I need to add something for example potassium (among other things I saw cosmo 35 which uses potassium bicarbonate) why do you recommend this tipe.

[Hopeoneday]

I am in testing ben.t for 7 days, from 20mg to 50mg, not noticed
eny benefit from it for now...

[Sisyphus]

@kosmo35. Thanks for that. I'm going to start with a very cautious low dose for the first 4 weeks but I'll keep that dosing regimen in mind for later.

@Andre2505 and Hoponeday: Good luck too! I hope thiamine helps you.

[kosmo35]

Hi Andre, I used the same caution that you are using at the beginning in increasing the dose of benfo and, unless you feel a strong adverse reaction you can continue on this path.
I'm not familiar with magnesium chloride, so I don't know what the equivalence is in terms of dose with citrate or other forms, sorry.
I think that the choice to adopt a ketogenic diet is certainly useful for eliminating the symptoms in the presence of a chronic pathology that involves metabolism like ours, but I believe that it may be wise to take a B vitamin supplement every now and then to avoid any imbalances from a megadose of a single nutrient, but that's just my opinion.
As regards potassium, the recommended daily dose is around 3500 mg, but varies based on weight. From what I have read, the 99 mg limitation typical of potassium-based supplements is the result of limited studies from a long time ago that warned of side effects encountered when taking potassium supplements. This does not mean that we can abuse potassium, indeed the precautions are justified because the sodium-potassium balance is one of the most critical for our cells and hyperkalemia can easily kill. However, the recommended dose goes well beyond 99 mg and a single banana already contains 300 mg, while a potato contains around 600 mg. Since it is difficult to reach the dose of 3500/4000 mg in one day with food alone, it may be useful in some cases to integrate 500-1500 mg of potassium just to be sure of reaching it, but eating a couple of extra bananas can be a valid and better alternative because it comes from real food.
The form I use is potassium bicarbonate because as I explained in a previous post the megadose of thiamine can cause a loss of potassium and intracellular bicarbonate, so it was the most practical solution, but you could also benefit from common sodium bicarbonate, even if in that case you should be careful not to exceed so as not to unbalance the potassium.

[Andre2505]

so instead of potassium I could only take a little sodium bicarbonate a day, or do I have to take potassium anyway. So you took the potassium bicarbonate so you get 2 in one right. take both potassium and bicarbonate with a supplement.

[Andre2505]

@kosmo35. Thanks for that. I'm going to start with a very cautious low dose for the first 4 weeks but I'll keep that dosing regimen in mind for later.

@Andre2505 and Hoponeday: Good luck too! I hope thiamine helps you.

good luck to you too

[Andre2505]

hi guys, I've been following the protocol for almost three weeks, for now I'm taking 160 mg of Swanson benfiotamine, I've tried to get as much potassium as possible in my diet, I take magnesium.

Now 2 days ago I received the potassium bicarbonate which I take together with ascorbic acid so it is more available: one sachet contains 300 mg of potassium bicarbonate which is written as containing 117 mg of potassium, I don't know what this means.

A question I have to ask Kosmo35: therefore I need to supplement from 500 to 1500 mg of potassium bicarbonate or just potassium (because it is written there that 300 mg of potassium bicarbonate corresponds to 117 mg of potassium).

So far I haven't noticed any benefits, I still have symptoms afterwards. Maybe because I have to add more potassium or I have to take more benfiotiamine.

[Andre2505]

I must say that after the first week at the dose of 300 mg of Benfotiamine, I felt the presence of new symptoms, milder but still annoying, such as back pain and slight fogginess.
Reading on the Hormones Matter website I understood that it could be a renal overload due to the loss of potassium and bicarbonate due to the high dose of thiamine (renal tubular acidosis).
I knew that potassium was an important cofactor, but I ignored it initially and limited myself to taking magnesium citrate, zinc and b complex as described in the previous post.
I decided to supplement with potassium citrate at a dose of around 750 mg, but no benefit.
The next day I then added some sodium bicarbonate (1 tsp) to the potassium and the usual supplementation and BOOM! instant disappearance of mental fog and tension in the lower back.
So now I supplement with potassium bicarbonate and I'm making incredible progress. I don't know how to describe but it's like until now I've seen the world in 360p and now I'm able to see the world in 4k.
My explanation of the phenomenon is this: I may have suffered from a mitochondrial dysfunction in recent years, which has gradually worsened over time.
This dysfunction prevents glucose from entering the krebs cycle producing co2, which instead becomes lactic acid.
Lactic acid saturates the tissues giving the chronic sensation of having just completed an intense physical effort.
High-dose thiamine apparently is able to reverse mitochondrial damage until healing and bicarbonate, by raising the intracellular pH, pushes lactic acid out of the cells.
I will definitely continue to update in the coming months on my situation. Good luck to everyone!

Are you male or female?

[Andre2505]

sorry for my earlier questions, now I understand the issue of potassium and potassium bicarbonate.

 My stack for now is:
240 mg of benfiotiamine

 Magnesium chloride

 A supplement of
potassium bicarbonate and ascorbic acid (together they are absorbed better) 300-600 mg.

Glutathione 150 mg and nac 300 mg.

Still no benefit seen, I still have symptoms after orgasm. Maybe I should add some potassium citrate. I can't say how much potassium I take in my diet and how I do it is impossible, there are many foods that contain it. But I try to eat a banana or two a day and I take potassium bicarbonate so I think it might be enough, or even maybe it's too much and that's why it hasn't cured my symptoms yet,

So now the things to try are to add more potassium and see what happens, or to add more benfiotiamine (soon I'll start taking 360 mg a day) or both. If that doesn't work I switch to TTD or whatever it's called, I mean the other form of thiamine.

Kosmo35 I hope everything is going well. When you can brother let me know how things are going

[Sisyphus]

Hi Andre2505
I believe you've only been on this protocol about a month, is that correct? From what I've read, if the thiamine is working, at first your symptoms should get worse before they improve ("paradoxical reaction"). Have your symptoms got worse?

If and when I start benfotiamine, I don't intend to supplement with either magnesium or potassium unless a blood test shows they are low or if I get muscle cramps and/or constipation. I get a lot of potassium and magnesium in my diet. I know others feel you need to supplement with these - (though I didn't see any mention of potassium in Constantini's work) -  but I guess everyone's different.

Maybe the keto diet is having an affect on things?

Good luck with month 2 

[kosmo35]

Hi everyone, sorry for the absence.
Things are going very well, even better since I switched from benfotiamine to TTFD. I take 2 capsules (100 mg) of the ecological formula's brand. It seems much more effective for cognitive symptoms.
I also discovered something interesting. For the last few months I have routinely eaten 2 eggs a day because it was part of those things that relieved my POIS symptoms in the past. A few weeks ago I stopped taking them because I thought it was no longer necessary. I've felt a lot of POIS symptoms return after orgasm, lack of libido and brain fog.
I started eating eggs again for 5 days and the engine surprisingly started running as before.
I then came across a video by Elliot Overton entitled "I fix my gut! Here's how" in which he explains that he solved his chronic disorders mainly through stimulation of the vagus nerve through TTFD, CDP choline and vitamin b5.
I'm starting to suspect that choline, a precursor of acetylcholine, has a lot to do with my ailments and that the success I've experienced is due to the synergistic action of egg choline and TTFD.

[kosmo35]

To answer Andre's questions, I am a man and I am 24 years old.
I take half a teaspoon of potassium bicarbonate which would be 2500 mg more or less. Using the molecular weight you can calculate the potassium portion, i.e. approximately 974 mg. The calculations come back with the data you reported, in fact the ratio between potassium and potassium bicarbonate is always 0.39.

[Sisyphus]

That's very encouraging kosmo35. I've not got going with benfotiamine (or TTFD) yet but I'm following this thread and I wish you the best with this treatment you are using.

I've read others say similar things about eggs on this forum so that's interesting too. I've always eaten plenty of eggs and definitely not planning to stop. Can we be sure it's choline and not the omega 3 that's important?

[Warrior]

That's very encouraging kosmo35. I've not got going with benfotiamine (or TTFD) yet but I'm following this thread and I wish you the best with this treatment you are using.

I've read others say similar things about eggs on this forum so that's interesting too. I've always eaten plenty of eggs and definitely not planning to stop. Can we be sure it's choline and not the omega 3 that's important?

I'm not convinced it's 100% of the choline in eggs that are responbile for making us feel so good. I've tried many different types of choline supplementation and none of them come close to how eggs make me feel. They're truly nature's multivitamin with the amount of micronutrients packed into them. Strangely, phosphatidylcholine (the type of choline in eggs but also in liposomal vitamin C) makes me feel eerie when I take it through liposomal vitamin C, but not when I eat eggs. Eggs are a POIS superfood!