IronFeather's case (female, 25 years old)

[IronFeather]

ps - IronFeather, I wrote you a message about the vagus nerve, it’s in your PM inbox

Thank you, demo! That theory about a radiculopathy being the cause of POIS seems very interesting to me. I know that I do have at least one pinched nerve, as I can't lie on my left side without feeling a sudden searing pain after a while, and it's much worse during POIS. And in that region, which is a small area on the left side of my chest, I have a permanent feeling of partial numbness.

But if this was indeed a radiculopathy, couldn't it be easily cured? Wouldn't it show on MRI scans?

[IronFeather]

Factors contributing to symptom reduction

POTS

• Intens (heavy weights) body building exercises (most of them in flat or inclined position). Short powerful movements, almost explosive with Reps between 3-5. The trick is you need to induce a pump. Need to add more details

Mother:
July 2020: She had to push against a mobile caravan for a short time window with alot of force and felt immediately better afterwards.

The same thing happens to me, inducing a pump makes me feel immensely better. Example: a couple of weeks ago I was in the middle of a POIS episode, feeling weak and feverish, about to have dinner but with zero appetite. A person I know called me on the phone, said something offensive, and I completely lost it. I felt an immense surge of adrenaline, saw red and started screaming at them at the top of my lungs. After that I could eat my dinner and felt quite good, even though the fever didn't go away until two days later. But the feeling of sickness certainly did.

Something seems to be working at a minimum level during POIS, and things like these can reactivate it. Same with eating spicy foods: eating an entire onion, and rice with pepper (on separate occasions!) had the same effect on me.

[demografx]

ps - IronFeather, I wrote you a message about the vagus nerve, it’s in your PM inbox

Thank you, demo! That theory about a radiculopathy being the cause of POIS seems very interesting to me. I know that I do have at least one pinched nerve, as I can't lie on my left side without feeling a sudden searing pain after a while, and it's much worse during POIS. And in that region, which is a small area on the left side of my chest, I have a permanent feeling of partial numbness.

But if this was indeed a radiculopathy, couldn't it be easily cured? Wouldn't it show on MRI scans?

No idea, IronFeather. You clearly know much more about this than I do!

[IronFeather]

No idea, IronFeather. You clearly know much more about this than I do!

Oh, thank you but I doubt it, I wish I knew more, but I'm sure that working all together we can figure out important things!

[demografx]

No idea, IronFeather. You clearly know much more about this than I do!

Oh, thank you but I doubt it, I wish I knew more, but I'm sure that working all together we can figure out important things!

That’s the spirit of this forum I hope we can all achieve.

[Muon]

A person I know called me on the phone, said something offensive, and I completely lost it. I felt an immense surge of adrenaline, saw red and started screaming at them at the top of my lungs. After that I could eat my dinner and felt quite good, even though the fever didn't go away until two days later. But the feeling of sickness certainly did.

This happened to my mother at multiple occasions, same scenario. Overlap of mechanism seems to be involved here. It would interesting to compare genetic profiles.

[Charles_b]

Factors contributing to symptom reduction

POTS

• Intens (heavy weights) body building exercises (most of them in flat or inclined position). Short powerful movements, almost explosive with Reps between 3-5. The trick is you need to induce a pump. Need to add more details

Mother:
July 2020: She had to push against a mobile caravan for a short time window with alot of force and felt immediately better afterwards.

The same thing happens to me, inducing a pump makes me feel immensely better. Example: a couple of weeks ago I was in the middle of a POIS episode, feeling weak and feverish, about to have dinner but with zero appetite. A person I know called me on the phone, said something offensive, and I completely lost it. I felt an immense surge of adrenaline, saw red and started screaming at them at the top of my lungs. After that I could eat my dinner and felt quite good, even though the fever didn't go away until two days later. But the feeling of sickness certainly did.

Something seems to be working at a minimum level during POIS, and things like these can reactivate it. Same with eating spicy foods: eating an entire onion, and rice with pepper (on separate occasions!) had the same effect on me.

I have experienced the same thing with adrenaline rushes and feeling better after.  Weirdly another thing that will override a horrible POIS episode is crying, but it has to be substantial crying… I’ve noticed that if something causes me to heave-cry, it almost clears up all of my symptoms instantaneously afterwards.  No clue why, but my guess is it resets something in the parasympathetic nervous system.

[demografx]

…Weirdly another thing that will override a horrible POIS episode is crying, but it has to be substantial crying… I’ve noticed that if something causes me to heave-cry, it almost clears up all of my symptoms instantaneously afterwards.  No clue why, but my guess is it resets something in the parasympathetic nervous system.

Interesting! The same thing happens to me in prolonged, ultra-anxious situations

[Journey]

If something makes me extremely angry or anxious or frustrated to the point where I wanna scream out of my lungs and hit everything and even more so if I actually do it I too feel improvement in brain fog, fatigue, etc. everything, in POIS it is like my body is extremely overrelaxed

[Muon]

I wonder whether your exercise intolerance may stem from the brain. Could your breathing problem in the past, during hot weather (had this myself), be linked to the middle of the brain? Is a certain section of your brain underperforming?
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg42629#msg42629

[demografx]

…a couple of weeks ago I was in the middle of a POIS episode…

IronFeather, since I started with this forum in 2007, I have had a strong feeling that semen (refractory speed) is very much implicated in male POIS.

If I’m proven right about male semen, do you think that there might be a comparable equivalent that is true for female POIS?

Many thanks. You have done a lot for this forum!

Best,
Demo

[IronFeather]

I wonder whether your exercise intolerance may stem from the brain. Could your breathing problem in the past, during hot weather (had this myself), be linked to the middle of the brain? Is a certain section of your brain underperforming?
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg42629#msg42629

I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm not really sure. When my symptoms worsened last year after using bleach at home, I felt a weird sensation in the middle of my head all the time (for 7-8 months), something I'd never experienced before and that felt as if a balloon was sitting in the middle of my brain. When this feeling intensified I felt dizzy or nauseous, in fact, I started feeling slightly dizzy some weeks before the exercise intolerance appeared, it was the first symptoms that alerted me that something was happening. However, I wonder if it's really in the brain of if it's actually the pituitary gland. I've been suspecting for a long time that there's something wrong with the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal gland axis, and that the involvement of the adrenal glands might be the reason why stress is much more detrimental for us than for healthy people.

The reason why I first thought about the pituitary is because, every time I feel this strange sensation of not being able to breathe properly, something in the back of my nose swells, so noticeably that my voice changes as it would with a stuffy nose, and my family always comments on it. I wonder if it's the pituitary gland malfunctioning or being overstimulated for some reason. Also, not sure if I've said this before, but when I was 17 years old I suddenly developed a very heightened sense of smell, that has remained very sharp ever since (for example, I can tell when a bottle of water has been exposed to sunlight because the water smells differently, I can smell what my neighbor is cooking 30 meters away with the windows closed, and recently I realized I can tell if a house uses electricity or gas to heat the water because it smells different...).

Maybe something isn't working properly in the nervous system, and this caused your temporary lack of tension in facial muscles, as well as the involuntary shaking we both get when tensing a muscle? (I think you said you had this too). In my case, I hadn't ever experienced this before my worsening, it appeared at the same time than my exercise intolerance, so I believe it must be related.

[IronFeather]

If something makes me extremely angry or anxious or frustrated to the point where I wanna scream out of my lungs and hit everything and even more so if I actually do it I too feel improvement in brain fog, fatigue, etc. everything, in POIS it is like my body is extremely overrelaxed

Same! Recently I've been having trouble with feeling extremely overrelaxed or weirdly anxious when I'm sick with POIS, sometimes alternating between both states. Some days, when I'm about to fall asleep in bed, I awake with a jolt, feeling short of breath, sort of having to remind my own body to breathe, as if it had forgotten to breathe deep enough while falling asleep. Sometimes after this happens it all shifts in the opposite direction and I feel anxious, jittery and cold for no reason. I usually manage to stop both symptoms by wrapping myself in very warm clothes or blankets and breathing deeply and slowly (diaphragmatic breathing, my guess it that is stabilizes the vagus nerve).

[BoneBroth]

Yes, I've heard that deep breathing is very stabilising for the nervous system, and heart beat. its also oxygenationg the body.

I also experience the "ballon" feeling inside the head (in POIS) witch feels like there is a very unpleasant pressure behind the nose, deep in the brain. I also believe it might originate from the pitutary/hypothalamus. I've made a poll about signs of decrease pitutary/hypothalamus function. My hypothesis is that a inflamed pitutary/hypothalamus is causing many of the POIS symptoms. Deficiencies of any theese hormones is a sign of comprimised function in the pitutary and hypothalamus:

Adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH) (targets the Adrenals)
Thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) (targets the Thyroid, temperature controlling, heart rate)
Luteinising hormone (LH) (targets the testes)
Follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) (targets the testes)
Prolactin (PRL)
Growth hormone (GH) (Stimulates growth and repair)
Melanocyte-stimulating hormone (MSH)
Antidiuretic hormone (ADH) (Controls the blood fluid and mineral levels in the body by affecting water retention by the kidneys. This hormone is also known vasopressin or argenine vasopressin (AVP)). Deficiency leads to dryeness, low blood pressure and varicose veins.
Oxytocin (anabolic hormone that heals osteoporosis)
Corticotropin-releasing hormone (helps regulate metabolism and immune response by working with the pituitary gland and adrenal gland to release certain steroids)
Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (instructs the pituitary gland to release more hormones that keep the sexual organs working)
Prolactin-controlling hormones
Thyrotropin-releasing hormone (activates the thyroid, which releases the hormones that regulate metabolism, energy levels, and developmental growth)

You can answer the poll here.And please do my other polls listed in my personal history here.

Does anyone have any idea of exactly what substance released from the brain that is the cause of the instant headache that comes seconds after orgasm?

[Muon]

Being a woman, I can't say I've experienced NE, but I've had orgasms while asleep in the past. It doesn't happen frequently, only when I've been especially frustrated with abstinence. For me, they don't cause any symptoms at all. However, arousal does cause mild symptoms when awake.

I believe the reason why they don't make me sick is because, when they happen and I wake up afterwards, I don't experience any of the physical signs of arousal or sexual activity, I haven't produced any fluid and there haven't been any physical changes whatsoever. It's as if it was only in my brain, and my body was disconnected, even if all the sensations feel completely real in the dream. The only downside is that the thoughts remain and it's much easier to relapse the day after. I wonder if it works like this for anyone else.

[IronFeather]

IronFeather, since I started with this forum in 2007, I have had a strong feeling that semen (refractory speed) is very much implicated in male POIS.

If I?€™m proven right about male semen, do you think that there might be a comparable equivalent that is true for female POIS?

Many thanks. You have done a lot for this forum!

Best,
Demo

Honestly, I've been thinking about this quite a lot recently. I'm not so sure I believe that a semen allergy could be the underlying cause of POIS, since many of us experience similar symptoms with other triggers that aren't related to sex, such as strong fear/stress, exercise, or certain postures. But I do believe there is something going on with the refractory period. Women aren't supposed to experience it, but since my POIS worsened last year and I developed exercise intolerance, I experience a sort of refractory period too, as if something was depleted and the 'circuitry' of arousal didn't work properly until some restoring was done. It doesn't happen every time, but it's a new thing for me, and sometimes lasts for days.

I'm puzzled by the fact that the release of pre-ejaculate causes POIS symptoms for some people here. It appears to indicate that an allergy could indeed be involved, but it could also be because of some nerves being stimulated when arousal happens, if there is something wrong with them, or because of the spike in sexual hormones, if the adrenal glands aren't working properly or these hormones can't be properly metabolized.

If there is indeed an allergy going on, the only thing I could think of that would be an equivalent in females would be the fluid produced by the Skene's glands. Since they apparently correspond to the so called 'G-spot', if there is something wrong with them this could maybe also explain why women with POIS seem to experience the female equivalent of premature ejaculation (I know it is an extremely sensitive spot for me). Also, they are called 'the female prostate', so maybe this could be the connection with male POIS. I found this article very interesting:

https://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(02)70196-8/fulltext

Especially, I was surprised by this paragraph, there might be some important clue here:

There have been numerous pathologic studies that in some way support the conclusion that what has been called Skene's or paraurethral ducts and glands are, in fact, not a vestigial homolog of the male prostate but, instead, a "small, functional organ that produces female prostatic secretion and possesses cells with neuroendocrine function, comparable to the male prostate".

Thanks for all you've done for this forum too, demo, I don't know what we would do if this place didn't exist!

[Charles_b]

If something makes me extremely angry or anxious or frustrated to the point where I wanna scream out of my lungs and hit everything and even more so if I actually do it I too feel improvement in brain fog, fatigue, etc. everything, in POIS it is like my body is extremely overrelaxed

Same! Recently I've been having trouble with feeling extremely overrelaxed or weirdly anxious when I'm sick with POIS, sometimes alternating between both states. Some days, when I'm about to fall asleep in bed, I awake with a jolt, feeling short of breath, sort of having to remind my own body to breathe, as if it had forgotten to breathe deep enough while falling asleep. Sometimes after this happens it all shifts in the opposite direction and I feel anxious, jittery and cold for no reason. I usually manage to stop both symptoms by wrapping myself in very warm clothes or blankets and breathing deeply and slowly (diaphragmatic breathing, my guess it that is stabilizes the vagus nerve).

This almost exactly describes some of the sleeping problems I have had - at night after POIS episode I feel extremely over-exhausted, it’s like my body starts to fall asleep and then forgets to breathe and I wake up gasping.  Rinse and repeat the entire night until about 3 or 4 am when it stops - and I’m a wreck by then  And this never happens to me on non-POIS nights.  Glad to hear the deep-breathing helps!

Weirdly since I’ve started taking aged garlic extract, this symptom has completely vanished, after suffering with it for 3 years.

[demografx]

I'm not so sure I believe that a semen allergy could be the underlying cause of POIS…

Me, neither!

[Progecitor]

I wonder whether your exercise intolerance may stem from the brain. Could your breathing problem in the past, during hot weather (had this myself), be linked to the middle of the brain? Is a certain section of your brain underperforming?
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2545.msg42629#msg42629

I've been thinking about this a lot, but I'm not really sure. When my symptoms worsened last year after using bleach at home, I felt a weird sensation in the middle of my head all the time (for 7-8 months), something I'd never experienced before and that felt as if a balloon was sitting in the middle of my brain. When this feeling intensified I felt dizzy or nauseous, in fact, I started feeling slightly dizzy some weeks before the exercise intolerance appeared, it was the first symptoms that alerted me that something was happening. However, I wonder if it's really in the brain of if it's actually the pituitary gland. I've been suspecting for a long time that there's something wrong with the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal gland axis, and that the involvement of the adrenal glands might be the reason why stress is much more detrimental for us than for healthy people.

The reason why I first thought about the pituitary is because, every time I feel this strange sensation of not being able to breathe properly, something in the back of my nose swells, so noticeably that my voice changes as it would with a stuffy nose, and my family always comments on it. I wonder if it's the pituitary gland malfunctioning or being overstimulated for some reason. Also, not sure if I've said this before, but when I was 17 years old I suddenly developed a very heightened sense of smell, that has remained very sharp ever since (for example, I can tell when a bottle of water has been exposed to sunlight because the water smells differently, I can smell what my neighbor is cooking 30 meters away with the windows closed, and recently I realized I can tell if a house uses electricity or gas to heat the water because it smells different...).

Maybe something isn't working properly in the nervous system, and this caused your temporary lack of tension in facial muscles, as well as the involuntary shaking we both get when tensing a muscle? (I think you said you had this too). In my case, I hadn't ever experienced this before my worsening, it appeared at the same time than my exercise intolerance, so I believe it must be related.

I was reading this highly interesting study when I recalled this post and thought this could be of interest to you and others.

Hyperalgesia is a cardinal symptom of opioid withdrawal. The transient receptor potential vanilloid 1 (TRPV1) is a ligand-gated ion channel expressed on sensory neurons responding to noxious heat, protons, and chemical stimuli such as capsaicin. TRPV1 can be inhibited via mu-opioid receptor (MOR)-mediated reduced activity of adenylyl cyclases (ACs) and decreased cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) levels. In contrast, opioid withdrawal following chronic activation of MOR uncovers AC superactivation and subsequent increases in cAMP and protein kinase A (PKA) activity.
The cAMP-PKA pathway is important in pain sensitization induced by opioid withdrawal in the central nervous system. Such cAMP superactivation was found to increase synaptic as well as glutamatergic presynaptic transmission in brainstem neurons.
Moreover, enhanced PKA activity has been shown to increase neuronal action potential rate leading to hyperexcitation of midbrain neurons during opioid withdrawal.
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304395913000110

[IronFeather]

This almost exactly describes some of the sleeping problems I have had - at night after POIS episode I feel extremely over-exhausted, it’s like my body starts to fall asleep and then forgets to breathe and I wake up gasping.  Rinse and repeat the entire night until about 3 or 4 am when it stops - and I’m a wreck by then  And this never happens to me on non-POIS nights.  Glad to hear the deep-breathing helps!

Weirdly since I’ve started taking aged garlic extract, this symptom has completely vanished, after suffering with it for 3 years.

Wow, that sounds terrible, I feel lucky that it normally stops for me after some deep breathing and laying face down or on my right side. I'm glad that taking aged garlic extract solved it for you! I wonder why that might be, do you have any theory as to why it worked? I suppose you're taking it in capsules? I recently bought black garlic but I haven't tried it yet, and anyway I'm not quite sure if it is the same thing than aged garlic or not.