Author Topic: High Prolactine / low Progesteron? Traditional Herb Vitex agnus-castus  (Read 5638 times)

berlin1984

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I believe this is just one factor involved, not a root cause or or cure all. Also it's possibly only for lowering symptoms.
(Note: if you think herb's are bs, just remember that aspirin was discovered from Willow plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aspirin )

In a lot of test results posted here on the forum, high prolactine is mentioned.
Prolactine is inversely corelated(?) to dopamine (TBD: insert study)
Prolactine is raised after orgasm. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16095799 (higher after masturbation, possibly a reason the nofap crowd detests masturbation vs sex EDIT: Thanks for pointing out)

The herb Vitex agnus-castus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitex_agnus-castus ("also called vitex, chaste tree (or chastetree), chasteberry, Abraham's balm, lilac chastetree, or monk's pepper") can (in higher doses) inhibit Prolactine. In lower doses it actually makes Prolactine more pronounced.
The English Wikipedia page is unfortunately not as detailed as the German one on this.

In Germany, this herb is actually used to treat PMS and to increase chances of pregnancy. One reason is that it is supposed to also increase Progesteron. I see in the forum here that Progesteron is used as POIS cure. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329001362_Improved_progesterone_levels_and_pregnancy_following_vitex_agnus-castus_Chaste_tree_supplementation_in_a_case_of_recurrent_pregnancy_loss_A_case_report

Addendum: There is other herbs popular in Germany for female health and progesteorne: Alchemilla (Lady's mantle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemilla has ingredients similar to Progesterone as far as I understand it.

swell

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Great info berlin.  I think I have some genetic SNP also i.e. propensity for higher prolactin.  Any common compounds that lower it potently?

I believe this is just one factor involved, not a root cause or or cure all. Also it's possibly only for lowering symptoms.
(Note: if you think herb's are bs, just remember that aspirin was discovered from Willow plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aspirin )

In a lot of test results posted here on the forum, high prolactine is mentioned.
Prolactine is inversely corelated(?) to dopamine (TBD: insert study)
Prolactine is raised after orgasm. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16095799 (higher after masturbation, possibly a reason the nofap crowd detests masturbation vs sex)

The herb Vitex agnus-castus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitex_agnus-castus ("also called vitex, chaste tree (or chastetree), chasteberry, Abraham's balm, lilac chastetree, or monk's pepper") can (in higher doses) inhibit Prolactine. In lower doses it actually makes Prolactine more pronounced.
The English Wikipedia page is unfortunately not as detailed as the German one on this.

In Germany, this herb is actually used to treat PMS and to increase chances of pregnancy. One reason is that it is supposed to also increase Progesteron. I see in the forum here that Progesteron is used as POIS cure. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329001362_Improved_progesterone_levels_and_pregnancy_following_vitex_agnus-castus_Chaste_tree_supplementation_in_a_case_of_recurrent_pregnancy_loss_A_case_report

Addendum: There is other herbs popular in Germany for female health and progesteorne: Alchemilla (Lady's mantle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemilla has ingredients similar to Progesterone as far as I understand it.
POIS Free, 2+ yrs (occasional/predictive lapses)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Cursed

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Prolactine is raised after orgasm. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16095799 (higher after masturbation, possibly a reason the nofap crowd detests masturbation vs sex)
Sorry for replying to such an old thread, but I was just searching for info on prolactin and noticed that this statement is incorrect. The study you linked clearly states in the name: "The post-orgasmic prolactin increase following intercourse is greater than following masturbation and suggests greater satiety "

berlin1984

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Chasteberry [400 mg per capsule]: It is supposed to increase progesteron in women. Well it may not do so in man. The first time I took one it unexpectedly induced a weak-moderate ass muscle inflammation (probably not a POIS symptom), but this disappeared in a few hours (after consumption from 2 o 6 hours). At another day I took one in the morning and one in the afternoon. However this kind of inflammation only appeared very weakly.
In regard of POIS symptoms it didn't reduce depression and I still had bloodshot eyes. It may have reduced the burning feeling a bit, but I am not really sure without a more extensive testing. Another thing I noticed was a weak bulging of some blood vessels a few hours after consumption, however blood pressure was alright. All-in-all I could also say that it had practically no effect.
The product doesn't specify what part of the plant was used, but it is probably the leaves or the fruit. The seeds are sold separately and they are said to be antiaphrodisiac, so I will have to test them too.

demografx

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Thanks, berlin1984.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Journey

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I have this herb capsules at home as my mom used to use them in past but didn't finish them but I am afraid they might lower androgens too much but then again in certain doses Progesterone upregulates androgens and downregulates Estrogen and other androgen opposing hormones so I am unsure if to take it or not

Moenchspfeffer

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Prolactin as a source for POIS
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2023, 12:40:37 PM »
Hello together,

this is my first post here so i will briefly give some context:

I am a 25 year old man who struggled with POIS for about half of his life. My POIS usually lasts for ~3-5 days.

In december 2021 i found a way to partially reduce symptoms by taking 1g paracetamol as soon as possible after ejaculation. Maybe it is placebo, but i feel like it reduced my POIS to ~2-4 days total.
I explicitly DO NOT recommend that, since paracetamol is damaging to the liver and the results are not the best.

Other substances that partially worked for me are: THC (acts on dopamine), lysergic acid diethylamide (acts on serotonin), but since they might be illegal where you live and only partially reduced symptoms for me, i also DO NOT recommend them. Especially not THC, since it is addictive.

I also tried L-Tryptophan, which gets synthesised into (among other things) serotonin. This did not help at all.



Ok now to the interesting part:

I have found a way to remove my POIS.

Over the years i did lots of research and at one point stumbled upon the fact, that (as i understand it) after ejaculation, dopamine get suppresed by prolactin levels rising. This explained to me why THC helped me partially and i did not think more about it... until recently.

I was wondering what would happen if i somehow reduce prolactin levels. I thought, that might open the door for dopamine to be more active and thus might help, since THC partially helped me. I did not really want to take any medication for this experiment so i searched for natural ways to lower prolactin. I found, that monks pepper is known to reduce prolactin and we even had some monks pepper at home. I assumed i had to take it daily for some time in order for it to potentially show some effect. At the moment of finding this information, i was in POIS state and had taken 1g paracetamol some hours before (after my last ejaculation). The monks pepper i had available was in the form of tablets of 10mg monks pepper extract. So i took one. Not long after, i somehow felt better. I was curious and took another 20mg extra. I felt even better (although this might have been placebo). At that point i was not sure if it was only the monks pepper or the paracetamol as well. I wanted to know whether this works without paracetamol, so the next time i ejaculated, i took 40mg monks pepper within 5 minutes of ejaculation and no paracetamol. I felt only minimal POIS. I wanted to see if the effect get better with dose, so not long after this ejaculation, i ejaculated again and took 60mg extra (100mg total now). I could not tell if i at that point had POIS symptoms, or i was just imagining them since i was used to having POIS after ejaculation. Side note: if i ever was to ejaculate twice on the same day it would completely destroy me for at least 4-5 days; now none of that. The following times i took 80mg within 5 minutes of ejaculation. I now essentially live without POIS. I did not try 100mg because it is not necessary for me.



My theory:

I think some of us have trouble biochemically degrading prolactin and this leads to the body requiring way more time to recover from elevated prolactin levels. Since prolactin (as i understand it) suppresses dopamine, we get our POIS symptoms as a result of that. Maybe someone with a background in biochemistry can further look into this.



Closing remarks:

For some of you, monks pepper might help. For me, 80mg monks pepper extract within 5 minutes of ejaculation removes POIS. I advise anyone who wants to try it to start with lower doses, since every metabolism might react differently to monks pepper. I found that if i take it too frequently (e.g. 2 ejaculations within 90 minutes, so 80mg and then another 80mg ~90 mins later) i get dizzy. So start with a low dosage and with a good amount of time between doses and then work from there. I hope this helps some of you!

berlin1984

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Re: Prolactin as a source for POIS
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2023, 06:49:52 AM »
Thanks for your post and welcome to the forum :)

Do you have more info on the product or which kind of extract it is? I'm asking because they might differ with regards to which compound of the plant they will then contain.

Also, is that a liquid or a pill? Because one would need to maybe also take into account full vs empty stomach?!