Niacin vs. Niacinamide

[Egordon]

Hey Guys,

I haven't been posting much on here lately but figured I'd come back around and share some of my experiences with Niacinamide. Most people on the board seem to prefer Niacin -- probably due to the fact that we discovered it first and because of our fixation on the flush that it produces (and it's relation to histamine and Dr. Waldinger's theory) -- but I've personally received better performance from Niacinamide.

(Note:  I've only tried two brands of Niacin and that it's entirely possible that the brands i happened to try were just of an inferior quality to the GNC Niacinamide that i'm using now)

My experience is that Niacinamide kicks in faster (I can O after 30 - 40 min) and is shorter acting (I can't O multiple times when I use it) but its effects are stronger (my theory on this is that my body absorbs it better -- when i used to take Niacin i'd pee bright yellow, which indicates to me that a lot of the vitamin was being excreted). I can take it immediately after eating a meal and I get essentially no POIS afterwards -- this is a huge deal for me, as i used to hate having to wait hours for my system to digest everything. It even works to largely eliminate POIS when i've had an O without taking B3 beforehand -- which has historically been a huge problem for us. And the day after O-ing with Niacin, I used to feel like I had just a little (sub-20%) lingering POIS. With Niacinamide I don't really get that feeling.

Other benefits not related to its strength: No flushing or redness, and no muscle spasms (Niacin used to make my back tighten up).

Have many of you guys tried Niacinamide? Have you noticed any difference?

[Egordon]

Note: My results were obtained using 300mg of Niacinamide. While this substance doesn't give me a flush, it's different from the long-acting Niacin, which traditionally comes in 500mg tablets and doesn't give a flush because it's not all absorbed at once. Niacinamide works, the longer-acting stuff (whose name is eluding me right now) does not. Don't take it.

(I obviously don't want to jump to any conclusions but i'm interested in what implications the success of flush-free Niacin has on the work of Waldinger. I just want to start a debate so that we don't foreclose all the possible causes of POIS.

These days I'm entirely convinced that POIS stems from poor blood circulation in the brain -- after all, the only thing we've seen success from is vasodilators. I know this is at odds with Dr. Waldinger's theory but it jibes with some of the diagnoses that received prior to discovering this board. Doctors used to tell me that I had cluster headaches because my eye would partially shut when i was under POIS. That type of headache stems from irregularities in blood flow in the brain. (Essentially, blood isn't able to circulate well enough so your blood vessels dilate to improve circulation. This pushes on certain parts of your brain giving you a headache and eye-related symptoms. And anti-inflammatories treat these symptoms by decreasing dilation) Further, it seems peculiar that flush-free niacinamide would work at all given the centrality of histimine to Waldinger's theory. What do you guys think of this.) 

[MrMoonJr]

Egordon -  " It even works to largely eliminate POIS when i've had an O without taking B3 beforehand "

So, if i take niacinamide  after O There will be a decrease in symptoms? Ive tried Niacin after O with no results. If this is true, it will be a huge step in relief for us.

[Egordon]

Hey MrMoonJr,

Yeah, that's what i've experienced. It doesn't completely eliminate POIS if you O without taking anything first, but it helps a lot. Unfortunately, with Niacin I saw virtually no improvement if I forgot to take something. Niacinamide seems to be a little different this way.

[Daveman]

This is good timing for this thread. We've sort of got niacin fairly nailed, now we can compare without complicating the picture, apples are apples and oranges are oranges.

A good description of the differences. I especially like the not having to wait for food to digest!

Some have taken 500 and 1000mg and with success. Would these have been delayed action by default (because of their size)? Or are there bigger doses that are non-delayed.

If I'm going to take 1000mg I want to be sure I know what I'm in for.

[b_jim]

I didn't see any interractions between fenugreek and B3. You can start with a small dose.

[Vincent M]

can we take niacinamide with fenugreek? would there be any complications?

I've taken fenugreek in the morning and then taken 200mg of niacin at night on numerous occasion with no problem. I don't see much chance of a drug interaction between a vitamin and an herb.

[artist]

To Daveman and Egordon
Hello guys
I was off the forum for some time and I notice now there has changed a lot?

Today I saw my GP about POIS.
Of course I knew he could?n do anything for me but I wanted to consult him about the use of niacin. After what I read from Daveman and Egordon, about their experiences with it I wondered if I could use it too without any risk?..
Happily he was positive and I can use it.
I?m going to try it anyway.
One thing, the so called ?flush?. What is it?
Is it dangerous? And is it an essence for help against POIS?
I can buy it in different shops always ?without flush? ? also named Niacinamide

[Vincent M]

The flush is a hot itchy sensation similar to the one you get if you stay in a hot shower way too long. Nacinamide is different than niacin. 100 to 200mg of niacin gives most of us a flush. You must wait several hours after eating in order to get the flush. When you buy the niacin it will just say "Niacin". Don't buy it if it says "no flush" on it.

It's not dangerous unless you take high quantities I'm guessing over 500mg every day or something like that and then it'll just have a chance of damaging your liver. The exact information is probly located somewhere else on this forum.

[Daveman]

The flush to me feels like a mild sunburn. But it's not really all that unpleasant, and only lasts about 20 min. I actually like the flush now.
You also get a sort of healthy peaceful effect.

It's not really the flush that alleviates POIS, but the flush is a sort of indicator that you have reached niacin saturation in the blood. And marks the precise dose you need for it to help POIS. So it's just a marker. No flush, little to no effect.

There are three types of no-flush, if you find the flush all that terrible (which it isn't).
One is a chemical modification, if it's not pure nicotinic acid it's a chemically modified no-flush. This basically doesn't work. Doesn't help
A second is a gel stabilized slow release kind. Problem is, that it is designed to release slow enough that you don't get the flush, and no flush, no relief. If you take enough that the slow release DOES release enough for a flush, you might be flushing for a long time. Not desirable.
A third kind is niacinimide. There have been reports that this works well. You have to take 1000mg, but because it doesn't have fush, you don't have that "indication" that tells you you've taken enough.

Start with 100mg pure niacin at least 3 hrs after eating and 30 min to 1 hr before orgasm. That should work very well. You'll feel tingling on the skin, indicating that the flush is coming, then slowly it peaks until the skin feels like sunburn, especially the face and scalp, and then arms and legs to varying degree. You may feel the face sort of pulsing. THIS IS NORMAL NATURAL AND NOT DAMAGING, in fact it's healthy for you. It passes quite quickly. As soon as you pass the peak of the flush, you can start in on the fun!!

 

[artist]

A very clear explanation. Thank you.
I couldn't get Niacin (with flush) ; only as a special order from US.
I tried Niacinimide 500 mg which is regularly for sale at a chemist's here.
At the moment I'm not yet sure how it works out but I will report it if I am?.. 
Additionally I use Vitamine B complex, one's a day 100 mg.

I think I will order real Niacin soon. After all I read about flush I'm a little curious about it??
It also seems an advantage to me to know when it is beginning to work.

[vetrofragile79]

Other news on niacinamide? When you take and in what quantity? you did a comparison with niacin?
I tried 150 grams of niacinamide but no effect on pois.

[artist]

Last weeks I have been trying  what this Vitamine B3 can do for me.
I started with Vitamine B complex, one's a day 100 mg.

That seems to be very healthy and will be a base for other B?s. Though it does nothing to reduce on POIS symptoms.

Then I tried niacinamide, about 3 hours fasting and 1 hour before O. I used 500 mg the first time.
It was not very successful but my complaints were less then they used to be. About a 40 to 60 percent but they lasted still 4 days as always.
After that I increased the quantity several times up to 1500 mg yesterday and today I didn't notice anything of POIS ! I hope this will last the coming days !

I also tried niacin.
First 100 and 200 mg which did nothing at all.
Then after 5 hours fasting and 300 mg  about 50 minutes before O my POIS was somewhat reduced the next 4 days but not very impressingly. I had a rather strong flush with that 300 mg and therefore I didn't dare to raise the quantity further.
Though, I have to go on??.Today I noticed there are suppliers who have niacin 500 mg tablets available and they are sold well, so nobody seems to get any damage by the flush with that quantity !

Of course I am satisfied with the result with the niacinamide but I like the niacin flush for more than one reason.
At first I think it a very pleasant experience - particularly with cold wether.
It is also a kind of ?marker? indeed to know when it's O.K.  Only, with high quantities the flush lasts very long, though decreasing.
I think when the peak has past it is time I can have an O.
   A third thing has nothing to do with POIS and is a bit personal. I have a slowly increasing problem with my legs for years now, what makes walking difficult.
I noticed after a niacin flush a remarkable improvement. I don't expect a healing but it is worth to try what happens with regular use of niacin.
Before long I'm going to experience with a higher dose of niacin.

[Bulls eye]

people asking about mixing niacin with fenugreek , its actually quite beneficial , as fenuugreek is hypoglycemic and niacin is hyperglycemic , actually niacin is one of the drugs that can cause drug indused Diabetes mellitus  . so keep a healthy low carb and fat diet (which would also helps in pois and your everey day life ) and if you are on a diabetes medication keep track of ur blood glucose levels with niacin

[Daveman]

Last weeks I have been trying  what this Vitamine B3 can do for me.
I started with Vitamine B complex, one's a day 100 mg.

That seems to be very healthy and will be a base for other B?s. Though it does nothing to reduce on POIS symptoms.

Then I tried niacinamide, about 3 hours fasting and 1 hour before O. I used 500 mg the first time.
It was not very successful but my complaints were less then they used to be. About a 40 to 60 percent but they lasted still 4 days as always.
After that I increased the quantity several times up to 1500 mg yesterday and today I didn't notice anything of POIS ! I hope this will last the coming days !

I also tried niacin.
First 100 and 200 mg which did nothing at all.
Then after 5 hours fasting and 300 mg  about 50 minutes before O my POIS was somewhat reduced the next 4 days but not very impressingly. I had a rather strong flush with that 300 mg and therefore I didn't dare to raise the quantity further.
Though, I have to go on??.Today I noticed there are suppliers who have niacin 500 mg tablets available and they are sold well, so nobody seems to get any damage by the flush with that quantity !

Of course I am satisfied with the result with the niacinamide but I like the niacin flush for more than one reason.
At first I think it a very pleasant experience - particularly with cold wether.
It is also a kind of ?marker? indeed to know when it's O.K.  Only, with high quantities the flush lasts very long, though decreasing.
I think when the peak has past it is time I can have an O.
   A third thing has nothing to do with POIS and is a bit personal. I have a slowly increasing problem with my legs for years now, what makes walking difficult.
I noticed after a niacin flush a remarkable improvement. I don't expect a healing but it is worth to try what happens with regular use of niacin.
Before long I'm going to experience with a higher dose of niacin.

i personally couldn't even take 300 mg regular niacin, it would be too much for me, but we are all somewhat different.

That's good news about the niacinamide. I would like to try it, but I am doing so well with regular niacin, I feel I don't want to risk ever having POIS again.

Yes, I understand that with a stringer flush, it's better to wait till the flush has mostly passed before having the orgasm. If you are still flushing fairly strongly, it seems the effects aren't as beneficial.

On a side note, my last time I took 100 mg, which is my regular dose, but did not get a flush. So I had to take another 75 mg just to barely get a flush. It was a very light flush, but my POIS was practically zero afterwards. So even though my flush was light, it seems that having taken a greater quantity than usual worked better for me.

It's really strange how this niacin works!

[Bulls eye]

sometime i increase my dose to 1g if im not fasting and it seems to do trick

[Daveman]

sometime i increase my dose to 1g if im not fasting and it seems to do trick

WOW, I've wondered what it would take to overcome the fasting rule!

The one time that I had to take more than the 100 even after fasting was the day after a big party where we all indulged a bit too much. So even though the day that I took it I had fasted, it seems that the day before made me a little less tolerant.

I'll have to see what it will take for me if I haven't fasted...

[artist]

I think if you eat easy digestable food it is perhaps less necessary to fast so long.
But this is just an idea.
I had sometimes a cup of tea and a biscuit while fasting and I think it wasn?t very harmfull.
Perhaps it depends on the total contents of the intestines and that can be the contents of the day before too, I think??if it was a heavy meal??

[b_jim]

120 mg of nicotinamide for me today on empty stomach. No flush.
 It didn't help my flu-like symptoms. I had cold feeling just after orgasm as usual and some  postprandial flu-like symptoms as usual. Maybe it helps with cognitive symptoms but nothing else.

Maybe I will make a test with 150 or 200mg next time but niacine is not the miracle cure for me.
Or maybe with inositol hexanicotinate.

About cold feelings, I will take some pictures next time. I think there is a difference on hand, skin, colors and veins.

[artist]

Nicotinamide or niacinamide doesn't give any flush.
I had a rather satisfying result with 1500 mg niacinamide after 3 hours fasting. No POIS.
But better don't use higher doses.

With niacin you will get a flush but it depends on if your body is used to it.
The first time I had a rather strong flush with 100 mg,
The flush is about the same now with 500 mg.
Evidently your body gets used to it.