Chris’ Case? Recommendations Please

[ChrisMan]

Hello All,

Just joined. I would be over joyed if the members here could help me.  I am trying to read as much as possible, but I dont have much energy as I am struggling from extreme depression. I know there must be some supplements out there that can help.. below I share all information related to my cases, hoping someone can lend a helping hand. I am 29 and have had these symptoms from 14.

After orgasm, my systems include: These onset from a minute to 2 hours depending on the day and what supplements I have taken. Symptoms last untill I revive a full night of sleep. Oddly enough, I don?t expirence these symptoms after a nocturnal emission or wet dream. The more times I orgasm in a day the worse these symptoms become and the more nuerological they seem, such as intrusive thoughts, panic, and the felling of literally going crazy and loosing my mind.

Symptoms:

Extreme Depersonalization
Extreme Numbness
Depression
Inability to connect with people
Irritability
Lack of emotions
A feeling of a dark blanket over my eyes
Impulsive and dark thoughts, OCD like symptoms

I have treatment resistant depression. I have tried over 20 medications, have had NAD infusions, brain stimulation and etc with no relief. In addition I have OCD and ADHD, I believe these are related to my specific neurological make up and chemistry and POIS.

A few examples, and the only things that have helped.

I tried Prozac which helped my depression tremulously, then I orgasmed and crashed and the medication never worked again.

Tramadol stopped the POIS cold in its tracks, but the side effects hostpilized me and I had to stop.

The medication Mirtazapine, also an anti depressant that works on norepinephrine took away most symptoms, but I had to stop due to the need to try other medications for my depression.

I tried the Cabergoline which lowers prolactin thus raising dopamine, it was very expensive and people report no refractory period, this did not help.


I am wondering is a lack of norepinephrine or epinephrine is the culprit of my POIS?? This is what my gut tells me as I have had odd episodes of exercise intolerance, blood pressure, and no response from a plethora a depression treatments.

Large doses of B vitamins seems to help symptoms of POIS, sometimes zinc helps, sometimes vitamin C, sometimes taurine. None of these supplements make sex worthwhile however, and they are unpredictable in thier effectiveness.

I had a natural doctor prescribe me 20 supplements that I would take 3 times a day, a total of 60-70 pills. This also stopped the POIS mostly, but I was unable to figure out which supplements were responsible. Or if it was a combination?  Can anyone help me? I have attached the list. I stopped due to the cost of 600 a month taking all those supplements and the fact that it took away my ability to eat food.

I would like to have my symptoms reduced so I can enjoy intamicy.

[Nas]

Hey ChrisMan
Thanks for the information.
It's very interesting that Tramadol stopped POIS completely for you. How major were the side effects, and if so why not try another opioid?

[Hopeoneday]

Intresting, tramadoll-opioid connection...
Some people reported that is wery hard give up from
opioid medications.

Mirtazapine, intresting connection- a very strong antihistamine.

[Vandemolen]

I had Tramadol after my tonsils were removed. I slept for more than 18 hours a day.

[Quantum]

Hi Chris, and welcome to the forum.

Concerning suggestions, you can see in the POIS Types Charts different methods that have been useful for members.  No single method works for everybody, though. 

See at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448

[ChrisMan]

The Tramadol stopped it I would say 95-100 percent. It also cures PE. I have used tianapitine too, yes opioids seem to be the closest to a miracle cure I have found. I think tramadol works best because it also hits some other neurotransmitters. Buprenorphine did not work, how ever it is a partial opioid receptor.

The side effects of tramadol snowball. But it?s individual.

The first side effects are positive, anxiety is completely earased, self confidence feels like it always hound have..

But extreme constipation happens, and mood swings.  I became so angry at my family I would scream at the drop off a hat. But. The most difficult one is withdrawl after several month I came to a point where the prescribed dose was not enough for my brain, and I would randomly go into withdrawal. Which feels like the staircase to death. Can?t stand up hardly. Gasping for air.  Some sort of withdrawal happened everyday.

I don?t know if others would get the mood swings because I was also on an another anti depressant. So it might have been the two of those combined.

I was hoping you gentlemen would have some ideas of which supplements worked out if the list of 20... did that image load?

[Nas]

Thanks ChrisMan.
This tells us alot, for example when it comes to PE being cured, this proved its connection with POIS. Perhaps we need to know how do Opioids benefit you to see if you can try safer methods to stop POIS.
The problem is, Tradamol does a LOT to different receptors. So we need to go through all of them.
Tell me, does Tramadol work for you before or after Orgasm?

[demografx]

Sorry if I’m a party pooper, but I flushed all my opioids down the toilet. They’re *hugely* addictive.

But if someone else can find *safe* POIS relief, I’m all for it. For them.

It’s just not for me. And I suspect I’m not the only one here.

Opioids kill many people.

[Muon]

I don't get it why Buprenorphine didn't work for you. It's a partial MOR agonist yes but shouldn't you get some effects from that?
Tramadol seem to affect many types of receptors although affinity differs greatly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol#Mechanism_of_action
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine#Pharmacodynamics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%94-opioid_receptor
''Of additional interest is the potential for δ agonists to be developed for use as a novel class of antidepressant drugs, following robust evidence of both antidepressant effects[14] and also upregulation of BDNF production in the brain in animal models of depression.''

Low BDNF is associated with PE but then again so is serotonin. Tramadol could have upregulated BDNF via activation of the delta-opioid R and could have reversed PE. Your serum BDNF level might be low since there is a paper describing that BDNF is being transported through the BBB.

Have you tried Cannabidiol?

[Nas]

Poppy plant could be a much safer opioid if someone has access to it.

[Nas]

Low BDNF is associated with PE but then again so is serotonin.

Muon, I tried coffee fruit extract, it doesn't seem to help PE

[Muon]

Low BDNF is associated with PE but then again so is serotonin.

Muon, I tried coffee fruit extract, it doesn't seem to help PE

Coffee fruit isn't a diagnostic test.

[Iwillbeatthis]

I've found walking alone in nature eg:parks and focusing on the body and breathing helps massively with depersonalisation , emotional numbness and ability to connect with people. Yes it sounds so simple and ineffective but it is actually one of the most effective treatments you can do. When you're sitting in the same environment always it can make all your problems a lot worse without you even realising. Change of environment is key!

[Nas]

Coffee fruit isn't a diagnostic test.

It has BDNF, do you have an alternative method?

[demografx]

IWBT, I like that idea.

[demografx]

I don't get it why Buprenorphine didn't work for you.

If Buspar is a brand for that Rx, I tried it because it was the only *non-addictive* anti-anxiety agent around. Maybe it’s only the *addictive* part of opioids that’s effective?

[demografx]

Hi Chris, and welcome to the forum.

Hi Chris, I join Quantum in welcoming you!

[b_jim]

Endorphins are present in semen but who could evaluate the real influence of ejaculation on opioid system ? Scientific studies say some pg per militer of sperm.
I have only one experience with opiates : my doctor gave me codeine meds for muscular back pain (an NSAI's). I felt bad (insomnia depressed...).

[Observer]

I've found walking alone in nature eg:parks and focusing on the body and breathing helps massively with depersonalisation , emotional numbness and ability to connect with people. Yes it sounds so simple and ineffective but it is actually one of the most effective treatments you can do. When you're sitting in the same environment always it can make all your problems a lot worse without you even realising. Change of environment is key!

All of these problems point out to an overreactive vagus nerve in my opinion.

As for the OP, you sound like me. Tell your GP that if it's ok for you to take flush-niacin (Vitamin B-3) and go for it. Niacin is much more effective and normally safe than the other treatments you mentioned.

You should try the niacin protocol if you get the approval.

[Nas]

Endorphins are present in semen but who could evaluate the real influence of ejaculation on opioid system ? Scientific studies say some pg per militer of sperm.
I have only one experience with opiates : my doctor gave me codeine meds for muscular back pain (an NSAI's). I felt bad (insomnia depressed...).

B_jim, I don't think that's why opiates work for him. I believe, and this is shared with my fellow doctor POISer friends, that opioids down stimulate us during orgasm, making the orgasm more natural otherwise orgasm over stimulates our neural receptors causing the neuropsychological symptoms, and many physical symptoms related the limbic system.