Author Topic: Thyroid Function and POIS  (Read 5405 times)

swell

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Thyroid Function and POIS
« on: March 09, 2019, 09:24:56 PM »
I never paid attention to "hypo" hypothyroidism, neither did my docs.  I could be wrong but I believe docs under-diagnose thyroid dysfunction a) because of limitations in testing, b) limited efficacy of medications, c) historical schisms/wars between modern medicine and molecular medicine.

Thyroid is essential to:
Cardio: reduced cardiac output, reduced vasodilation, reduced blood flow to many organs.
Brain development.  Brain fog, day dreaming, mental state, speech, focus, impairments are related to it.
Reproductive:  normal reproductive physiology is impaired with too little thyroid hormone.
Growth: growth retardation, decrease in growth hormone levels (HGH).

Symptoms:
Fatigue, Sensitivity to cold, Constipation, Dry skin, Puffy face, hoarseness, weight gain, swelling, muscle weakness, hair loss.

Note: Your symptoms may be are the opposite of above, i.e. "hyper-thyroidsim" (symptoms like: hyper, sensitivity to heat, diahorrea, weight loss).  This usually results when your immune systems starts to attack thyroid leading to a thyroid "dysfunction", where you might swing in state of hypo-and-hyper (hashimoto/graves).

Last week I started Iodine supplementation - the rate limiting factor for T3, T4.  A week ago started with 300mg/day and right now peaking at 1250mg/day.  I dont plan to increase any more.  My body temps ranged 96.4 to 96.8 through-out day.  After one week, they have risen to 97.2 / 97.3 already.  I believe this was and still is the reason for my sluggish metabolic rate/gastric emptying, and perhaps the cause of too much swelling on my face and extremities AND hairloss.

Today I started taking L-Tyrosine at a small dose of 300mg/day which is a co-factor for T3, T4 synthesis.  Took also B6, Vit C and NAC (so Tyrosine doesn't go towards the melanin pathway)

Whether T3/T4 precursor prove to be beneficial, I should know in 2 months, but my initial feelings are very good.   What do you all think on thyroid dysfunction?  Also has anyone tried hyper-baric oxygen treatment?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:03:12 PM by swell »
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Vandemolen

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Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2019, 06:58:08 AM »
Before I knew I had POIS I thought I had hypothyroidism. I googled the symptoms and I had a lot of them (similair to POIS). I did a blood test. My TSH was too high and my T4 was ok but in the low range. My doctor gave me levothyroxin. I took it for 3 weeks but it did not help me. Now I am in a POIS period (without having sex, I think it is urticaria) I checked my TSH again. It was even higher. But my T4 was also a bit higher. I am not in the range to test Levothyroxin again. But I hope it will work you. Good luck
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 04:51:47 AM by demografx »
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

swell

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Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2019, 07:14:32 PM »
Vandemolen, I am new to this hypothyrodoism stuff, but learning fast.  My whole family is comprised of doctors so while I love them, I understand how they work :)  I have always asked my doc that my temps are low and they never did these tests on me.   I think your tests TSH/T4 revealed too less, you should get a comprehensive panel testing:
TSH (Must)
Free T4 (must)
Free T3 (must)
Reverse T3 (must)
Thyroglubulin antibodies (advisable)
Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies (advisable)
TSH Receptor antibodies (advisable)

And talking about preaching what you do, I am going solo and did not have any tests done since I dont keep insurance.  By the way, I used to have significant urticaria all my life "during" POIS until I started SamE, Glutathione/NAC.  You can try that if you still have urticaria.  I now get a milder form which I call it blotched skin (leathery, blotchy, shiny, dry skin) and recently Iodine which I started on POIS 2nd day reduced it to even milder levels.  And wooho, my POIS period ended today, I think it went easier this time with Iodine stack, though I will form opinion in 2 months time as this can be a one-time fluke.

Certainly follow your doc, though I think instead of synthroids, the basic molecules are safer provided you can do your homework (safety/toxicity, co-enzymes/co-factors, various metabolism pathways) and know when to give up and get a doc help.   I think taking Iodine/Tyrosine/Selenium and cofactors is safe and any excess that your thyroid AND brain tissue (since Iodine/Tyrosine passes blood brain barrier) does not consume will get excreted through urine.  Caution on Selenium to keep it under 400mg (I take 100mg). 


Before I knew I had POIS I thought I had hypothyroidism. I googled the symptoms and I had a lot of them (similair to POIS). I did a blood test. My TSH was too high and my T4 was ok but in the low range. My doctor gave me levothyroxin. I took it for 3 weeks but it did not help me. Now I am in a POIS period (without having sex, I think it is urticaria) I checked my TSH again. It was even higher. But my T4 was also a bit higher. I am not in the range to test Levothyroxin again. But I hope it will work you. Good luck
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:14:49 PM by swell »
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Hopeoneday

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2019, 05:45:57 AM »
Swell, do not suplement to much of trace elements,
it can be bad for you.
Dr-pois.

Vandemolen

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2019, 08:05:06 AM »
I did a special Thyriod blood test at the hospital. Came out negative. I just finished a bottle of Glutathione. Did not help me against urticaria. A few weeks ago I also took Sam-e for a few weeks. Did not help me. I stopped because Sam-e can give you sleeping problems.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 10:07:43 AM by Vandemolen »
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

FernandoPOIS

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 09:28:14 AM »
My symptoms are more like hyperthyroidism. I have difficulty gaining weight.
My POIS only happens with masturbation. Normal sex does not generate POIS symptoms. When I have no back pain and I masturbate the POIS symptoms are weaker and last for at most 2 days. My POIS is related to the health of my thoracic and cervical spine. Postural and Aerobic Exercise heal the vagus.

Vandemolen

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2019, 10:01:30 AM »
My symptoms are more like hyperthyroidism. I have difficulty gaining weight.
Before I was 25 years old I also used to have a lot of problems to gain weight. I was skinny. I started eating fastfood to gain weight: pizza, fries. But nothing helped. Untill I stopped with football (soccer). In 1 year I gained 20 kilo. Then it became very hard to lose weight. Also because I developped a bad diet. And a first I was happy that I was not skinny anymore. After a few years I noticed my fat belly, went back to sports and tried to lose weight. But I did not succeed. Later I stopped eating candy and chocolat. Now it is a bit better, but I still have to lose at least 5 kg.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

swell

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2019, 02:57:07 PM »
Really appreciate EVERYONE's feedback/tips/critique specially nanna1 inputs, you guys have helped me unravel my POIS (which was all bottled up in me for 31 yrs, damn!).  So I am really interested to know your views.   

Vandermolen:  Thyroid does that, takes you through weight gain and weight loss phases (hypo and hyper).  I was super skinny and now normal weight but I have to struggle keeping it normal otherwise it shoots up like 15 pounds in mere 3-4 days.  About L-glutathione (reduced), it gets inactivated by enzymes in stomach.  The trick is: N-Acetyl-Glutathione or Liposomal Glutathione, or L-Glutathione with Vitamin C and Milk Thistle and Alpha Lipoic which help convert back any oxidised glutathione back to its reduced/active form.

HopeOneday:   Too much of anything obviously can be toxic, but I am interested to know why not supplement with trace elements?  I have read very good things about trace element supplementation as well getting the huge daily value of Potassium from food sources (for metabolic processes which I think are central to POIS)

Not medically used, but 2 ballpark tests for hypo-thyroidism are:
- waking up temperature.  If it is more than 1 degree less consistently, indicates slower metabolism/swelling etc.  Mine has been ~2 degree less consistently. 
- Iodine patch test:  apply diluted lugols on a body part.  If the brown disappears quickly say an hour, indicates iodine deficiency. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 02:36:20 AM by swell »
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

swell

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 02:08:09 AM »
It seems several POIS'ers have before cured their POIS with thyroid treatment?.   But it is nowhere mentioned in 'summary of treatments' which I usually only reference, maybe Quantum has context on this issue?  It seems in POIS, there is not a deficiency of T4, but instead it is an impaired conversion process of T4 into T3.  The longer the impairment is untreated the more messy your thyroid becomes (starts to switche between hypo and hyper making treatment very tricky).  Taking Synthroid does not help in hypo.  Taking T3 will help.  But docs dont prescribe T3.  Why? (need to research)   

Few posts:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1254.msg12077#msg12077

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=987.msg17462#msg17462
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Quantum

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2019, 10:01:19 AM »
It seems several POIS'ers have before cured their POIS with thyroid treatment?.   But it is nowhere mentioned in 'summary of treatments' which I usually only reference, maybe Quantum has context on this issue?  It seems in POIS, there is not a deficiency of T4, but instead it is an impaired conversion process of T4 into T3.  The longer the impairment is untreated the more messy your thyroid becomes (starts to switche between hypo and hyper making treatment very tricky).  Taking Synthroid does not help in hypo.  Taking T3 will help.  But docs dont prescribe T3.  Why? (need to research)   

Few posts:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1254.msg12077#msg12077

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=987.msg17462#msg17462

Hi swell,

There is no definite member case yet, that would show that there could be a type of POIS that respond to thyroid supplementation.  There are some minor reports referring to it, like those you have given the link to, but there is no member that have made follow ups and showed that his POIS had been in control for at least 80% for a few months ( that is my criteria for including a method of control in my POIS Types Chart).

About T3 use and prescribing, it is not in the current medical practice to do so, because T4 only supplement is established for decades and seems to work for almost every cases.  In the body, there is much more T4 than T3, so fixing T3 level has a major effect on hypothyroidism.
 
If you want a more refined tuning of your thyroid function, including a combination of T4 and T3 supplementation, you will have to consult a Endocrinologist , since all general practitioner will work with T4 only.

It is important to have medical supervision if you want to adjust your thyroid function, because getting good results is all about fine tuning, and you cannot get this right without lab tests for TSH, and dosing T4 + T3 calls for someone specialized in these matters.

Also, know that "Wilson syndrome", if you read about it, is still a very controversial diagnosis, not recognized yet by mainstream science ( it is thought to be linked to conversion problem of T4 to T3 ).  There may be something to clarify and learn there, but for now it is still early to state anything, and caution is advised ( see official position of American Thryoid Association here: http://www.thyroid.org/american-thyroid-association-statement-on-wilsons-syndrome/ ). 

I am no specialist in thyroid function, so for a more scientific and clear advise on that, please see an endocrinologist.

You can find a good ref on T4/T3 here :  https://www.dietvsdisease.org/t4-t3-thyroid-hormone-levels/
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 10:03:00 AM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

demografx

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2019, 10:15:10 AM »
Quantum, nice link on T4/T3...even EYE can understand it! :)
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

swell

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2019, 03:46:17 AM »
Thank you much Quantum, your explanation on Thyroid is very insightful.  I do agree the users that have said that there POIS has been cured by treating thyroid, that they did not follow up properly, but I also think that it maybe is because they did 'cure it', and while jumping up and down they went to tahiti instead of looking back on POIS and helping us leftover POIS'ers.  But I do see they have left good knowledge behind (thanks to the forum and your effort) but yes they should have hung around longer to establish their credibility and their claim of getting cured.  I guess they did not care, or maybe they scummed  to the 'unspoken stigma' that thyroid carries (thanks to the likes of Mayo clinic, Pfizer, Merck manual, etc ... these big Titans that fought aging but hugely famous Nobel laureates who had questioned the emerging direction of modern western medicine which had begun to ignore efficacy of simple molecules like Niacin, organs like Thyroid, and instead today Mayo has given us chronic inflammation, Adderall, and allergies/immunology from just about everything ... even our children ... haha)

I realize I seem to be ranting, but one thing is clear, the widespread consensual statement, every doc reads something like "Synthroids work very well for almost all cases".  I have a feeling it does not work - that is to say it works for a pathetically less population than it is claimed to work for ... atleast thats what I'm finding, I realize online there could be lots of mis-information too ... so I'll cool down and in the meantime ... POIS journey will continue, sadly :), I promise I will not abandon you guys if my POIS indeed gets "cured" ... gotta love this word 'cured' ... feels good.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:16:51 PM by swell »
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

swell

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2019, 02:04:23 PM »
Update:  Guys, a very surprising effect.  My face has very significantly shrunked.  My ankles are now literally like 70% of their previous size, so much swelling has vanished.  I dont know which one supplement has caused it:  I started these almost at same time, I suspect Fulvic though not sure.   

Iodine, L-Tyrosine, or Fulvic acid minerals/electrolytes. 
 
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

swell

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2019, 03:01:18 PM »
I'm now almost certain that POIS is due to thyroid dysfunction.  I today saw pictures of 'xerosis' and it brought me to almost tears.  Guys this is exactly what happens to me for 7 days.  Nobody ever could help me when I showed them my face and skin after POIS.  No wonder Iodine/Glutathione/NAC/Milk Thistle all help POIS skin symptoms.   My swelling I believe is all gone.  My temps are stuck though at 96.7 to 97.1 tops.  I have reduced my Iodine to about 600mcg since I read it builds up transiently and could cause too much T4 after a while.  Guys I need your expertise, particularly nanna1's,  I dont mean to be disrespectful but you all are wasting time finding a cure.  POIS = thyroid dysfunction (hypo for 80% of us, and hyper for a smaller population).

These are skin POIS symptoms:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3726898/

Even nerve paresis few of us experience is due to Thyroid.   Need to find study that linked a case of facial paralysis with little benefit from anti-virals/anti-inflammatories but it dissappeared immediately after taking T3.  It pointed to a wider phenomenon.
POIS Free, 1+ yrs despite daily o's (with occasional pois episodes)
Pois symptoms: Peripheral (Skin: Urticaria, dryness, pale blotchy skin), Exasperation of: [Nerve weakness, Muscle weakness + Mental (CNS: Brain Fog, Irritation, Isolation, Speech lethargy, Anxiety)].
Other conditions: ASD, ADD, GA

Nas

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Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 03:10:54 PM »
Swell what are your general POIS symptoms?