Cost effective alternatives for omega-3

[Quantum]

I just wanted to dump this info here. Chrysin, Apigenin, Luteolin were the most potent "natural" xanthine oxidase inhibitors. Allopurinol was the most potent over-all inhibitor. Lower IC₅₀ values are better, but bio-availability is always the hidden variable. (click image to see full size)

Figure from: Structure?Activity Relationship and Classification of Flavonoids as Inhibitors of Xanthine Oxidase and Superoxide Scavengers

An excellent source of both chrysin and apigenin, and even of luteolin, is chamomile flower tops.   

These 3 substances are also mast cells stabilizers.   Chamomile supplements or tea are safe to use.


As a side note, allopurinol is on prescription only, because of its potential for some very nasty side effects.


From the above chart from Nanna, we can also see that green tea ( epigallocatechin, and secondary, epicatechin), is good at reducing superoxyde level.

[swell]

nanna1, you say oral bioavailability is the hidden variable.  After doing some google search that seems to be the case.   I think your knowledge in that area is critically required.   My lame searches reveal Apigenin is most bioavailable among the top 3 you list.  I did once make liposomes of Luteolin in Lecithin for oral intake, and used topical Luteolin in low-concentration DMSO solution.  I did notice the topical Luteolin was very helpful to certain skin uticaria like symptoms I get with POIS.   I now think the topical Luteolin helped tame down the whatever virus I have that flares after ejaculation.  The oral Luteolin I dont think did much.  Would you share views on Apigenin vs Chrysin vs Luteolin, how to improve bioavailability?  Like with carbs or fats or empty stomach, capsule or dissolved in solution, liposomes or not.

Quantum, you say chamomile tea.  Food sources are definitely safer and may even more bioavailable though my brief searches revealed  very small amounts of flavones/flavinoids from it.  Granted while sometime small could be more, but generally would you not have to drink like 200 cups of chamomile tea to get some good effect to tame down something like a raging virus?

  It may be worth looking into finding a xanthine oxidase (XO) inhibitor. I wrote about XO here. There is a cascade of inflammatory events:
1. Some herpes viruses (and influenza virus, and HIV) upregulate XO to increase superoxide (O₂^-).
2. Superoxide is then used by the other oxidative enzymes (COX-2, IDO, etc...) to oxidize substrates (arachidonic acid, tryptophan, etc...)
3. This produces (PGE₂, kynurenine) and peroxide (H₂O₂)
4. H₂O₂ activates NF-kB
5. chronically elevated NF-kB causes problems
In other words, blocking the activity of XO and/or the production of superoxide will dramatically reduce the activity of all the other oxidative enzymes and NF-kB.

I just wanted to dump this info here. Chrysin, Apigenin, Luteolin were the most potent "natural" xanthine oxidase inhibitors. Allopurinol was the most potent over-all inhibitor. Lower IC₅₀ values are better, but bio-availability is always the hidden variable. (click image to see full size)

Figure from: Structure−Activity Relationship and Classification of Flavonoids as Inhibitors of Xanthine Oxidase and Superoxide Scavengers

[nanna1]

Hi swell,

  I was thinking about your question about stopping a virus. I've been drinking aloe vera gel drinks as a way to directly suppress viral replication.
  Aloe emodin is one of the active ingredients in aloe vera leaves and is highly concentrated in aloe vera gel. Aloe vera gel is know for its therapeutic properties of the skin. But aloe emodin has been shown to inhibit herpes virus (HSV-1, HSV-2, VZV, EBV, CMV) replication and to be virucidal (RefFRMA, RefRSRB, RefKZZR, RefJKHT, RefKSWW). Aloe emodin is also inhibits the activity of NF-kB and down-regulates the expression of the MMP-2, JNK and MAPK genes used in collagen breakdown, stress sensing and viral replication (RefMPSK, RefLLCS). Aloe emodin reduces blood vessel inflammation by downregulating MMP-2, MMP-9 and VEGF through inhibition of NF-kB (RefPSSG, RefMKRN).

ID₅₀ and ID₉₀ values of aloe emodin for inhibiting viruses (Inactivation of enveloped viruses by anthraquinones extracted from plants). For the HSV-1 ID₅₀ value, the unit conversion is 1.6 ug/ml = 5.7uM (1 ug/ml = 1/0.279 uM). Herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) and type 2 (HSV-2), varicella-zoster virus (VZV), pseudorabies virus (PSV), influenza virus (INF), adenovirus (AD), and rhinovirus (RH).

  It also inhibits the expression of COX-2 and iNOS resulting in a reduction of inflammatory nitric oxide and PGE₂ with equal potency as quercetin (RefMPMS1). The bioavailability of aloe emodin is ~10% (RefMPMS2). Aloe emodin is neuroprotective against NMDA-excitotoxicity by upregulating superoxide dimutase (SOD) (RefHLFT2, RefHLFT1).

  From my understanding, aloe vera juice does not have as much emodin as the gel does. Aloe vera gel can be sourced here1 or here2. It should be diluted as 1 Tbs of aloe vera gel per 8oz of water (or other drink). This can be consumed daily 3 times a day. I have already started testing aloe vera gel mixed in a juice with some good results. It clearly crosses the BBB and has positive cognitive effects. I'm thinking that aloe vera gel may be a very effective at stopping POIS. I'll post about my trial later. Below is a commercial aloe vera drink that I have also been drinking. The sugar content is relatively small.

[swell]

Thank you nanna1 this is very very interesting.  I am going to start on this too.  I didn't correlate to POIS, but Senna tea I used to drink for constipation but stopped so I dont get used to it, somehow I felt very good being on it, I attributed the feel-good due to laxative effects of Senna since it expels all gases from your stomach.  And I read Aloe Emodin can be extracted from Aloe or Senna.

Question for you and all.  I get too much gas in my stomach since childhood.  I have always been naturally skinny but I'm always bloated.  I do take digestive enzymes but still I get gas.  Do other POIS'ers also have this gas problem?

Back to Aloe Emodin, nanna1.  Obviously aloe "gel" is stronger than "juice" since juice is nothing but the gel diluted.  And we know that making aloe gel is very easy at home, but cant we extract the aloe emodin out of aloe gel ourselves? 

Hi swell,

  I was thinking about your question about stopping a virus. I've been drinking aloe vera gel drinks as a way to directly suppress viral replication.
  Aloe emodin is one of the active ingredients in aloe vera leaves and is highly concentrated in aloe vera gel. Aloe vera gel is know for its therapeutic properties of the skin. But aloe emodin has been shown to inhibit herpes virus (HSV-1, HSV-2, VZV, EBV, CMV) replication and to be virucidal (RefFRMA, RefRSRB, RefKZZR, RefJKHT, RefKSWW). Aloe emodin is also inhibits the activity of NF-kB and down-regulates the expression of the MMP-2, JNK and MAPK genes used in collagen breakdown, stress sensing and viral replication (RefMPSK, RefLLCS). Aloe emodin reduces blood vessel inflammation by downregulating MMP-2, MMP-9 and VEGF through inhibition of NF-kB (RefPSSG, RefMKRN).

ID₅₀ and ID₉₀ values of aloe emodin for inhibiting viruses (Inactivation of enveloped viruses by anthraquinones extracted from plants). For the HSV-1 ID₅₀ value, the unit conversion is 1.6 ug/ml = 5.7uM (1 ug/ml = 1/0.279 uM). Herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) and type 2 (HSV-2), varicella-zoster virus (VZV), pseudorabies virus (PSV), influenza virus (INF), adenovirus (AD), and rhinovirus (RH).

  It also inhibits the expression of COX-2 and iNOS resulting in a reduction of inflammatory nitric oxide and PGE₂ with equal potency as quercetin (RefMPMS1). The bioavailability of aloe emodin is ~10% (RefMPMS2). Aloe emodin is neuroprotective against NMDA-excitotoxicity by upregulating superoxide dimutase (SOD) (RefHLFT2, RefHLFT1).

  From my understanding, aloe vera juice does not have as much emodin as the gel does. Aloe vera gel can be sourced here1 or here2. It should be diluted as 1 Tbs of aloe vera gel per 8oz of water (or other drink). This can be consumed daily 3 times a day. I have already started testing aloe vera gel mixed in a juice with some good results. It clearly crosses the BBB and has positive cognitive effects. I'm thinking that aloe vera gel may be a very effective at stopping POIS. I'll post about my trial later. Below is a commercial aloe vera drink that I have also been drinking. The sugar content is relatively small.

[Quantum]

Question for you and all.  I get too much gas in my stomach since childhood.  I have always been naturally skinny but I'm always bloated.  I do take digestive enzymes but still I get gas.  Do other POIS'ers also have this gas problem?

Hi Swell,

What works best for me, for intestinal gas, is taking good quality probiotics, with both lactobacillus and bifidus ( more than one strain of each in it), and take it for some time, to rebuild a good gut flora.  And, obviously, avoiding sugars - not only simple sugars like in desert or sweets, but also staying away from bad complex sugars like starch in white bread ( I eat only whole cereals bread), and avoiding too much potatoes as well ( very rich in starches, which become glucose when digested - I have swicth to kale and broccoli   )  .   

The sugars in the gut, when digested by a bad flora, lead to fermentation, so to methane/gas production.  This is the origin of the bloating. One sure sign that this is the case, is that the bloating is better in the morning ( after a night of fasting), and is worsening as you eat during the day, and is worst at the end of the day.

[swell]

Thank you Quantum on this good tip.   I placed order for Raw Probiotics 100 billion CFU's.  They are pricey but if I can get rid of this methane it is worth.  Sugar I cannot help.  Placed an order  Gymnema Sylvestre 400 mg.  I am hoping it can take away the intense want for sugary substances I have.   
 

What works best for me, for intestinal gas, is taking good quality probiotics, with both lactobacillus and bifidus ( more than one strain of each in it), and take it for some time, to rebuild a good gut flora.  And, obviously, avoiding sugars - not only simple sugars like in desert or sweets, but also staying away from bad complex sugars like starch in white bread ( I eat only whole cereals bread), and avoiding too much potatoes as well ( very rich in starches, which become glucose when digested - I have swicth to kale and broccoli   )  .   

The sugars in the gut, when digested by a bad flora, lead to fermentation, so to methane/gas production.  This is the origin of the bloating. One sure sign that this is the case, is that the bloating is better in the morning ( after a night of fasting), and is worsening as you eat during the day, and is worst at the end of the day.

[swell]

In hopes of killing any viruses very interested in this Aloe Emodin, nanna1.   Wondering the links for the 2 gels you have, they are for topical use and not oral?  Searched for oral use gels, but most of them state that they have taken out aloe emodin and other anthraquinones (I think since they are laxative effect which I actually dont mind) but I suspect even larger aloe products have these anthroquinones to have been taken out, so larger population can buy it. 

Also, what do you think about Rhubarb extract as a source for Aloe Emodin:  Ref: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24685589
Rhubarb extract is easily available and it also has 3-5% Aloe Emodin, whereas Aloe Vera we buy might not have any Emodin in it?  What do you think on the best source of getting this Aloe Emodin.

  From my understanding, aloe vera juice does not have as much emodin as the gel does. Aloe vera gel can be sourced here1 or here2. It should be diluted as 1 Tbs of aloe vera gel per 8oz of water (or other drink). This can be consumed daily 3 times a day. I have already started testing aloe vera gel mixed in a juice with some good results. It clearly crosses the BBB and has positive cognitive effects. I'm thinking that aloe vera gel may be a very effective at stopping POIS. I'll post about my trial later.

[nanna1]

Hi swell,

In hopes of killing any viruses very interested in this Aloe Emodin, nanna1.   Wondering the links for the 2 gels you have, they are for topical use and not oral?  Searched for oral use gels, but most of them state that they have taken out aloe emodin and other anthraquinones (I think since they are laxative effect which I actually dont mind) but I suspect even larger aloe products have these anthroquinones to have been taken out, so larger population can buy it.

  I have bought and tried both of these gels by mixing them in herbal teas or mixing them in the Aloe vera gel drink I took a picture of. I take it with sublingual vitamin D3 (2000IU) and selenomethionine (selenium, 100microgram) daily. I know they say that the gels are only for external use (skin). But I checked the ingredients before I consumed it. All of the ingredients for those two gels are edible. The reason they say "only for external use" is that Aloe vera gel can sometimes be a skin (or epithelia) irritant at high concentrations. This is because it exfoliates dead and damages epithelial cells. But this is a short-term effect. I have not noticed any gastrointestinal issues even after two weeks of large doses. In any case, I read somewhere that before you drink your aloe vera drink you should test it on your skin to make sure there is no reaction.

  So far, (aloe gel drink, vitamin-D3 and selenium) seems more effective than my current stack (POIS Cascade stack). I have had two orgasm in 4 days and I am eating meat (chicken) almost everyday. I want to see if these benefits last a month before I post details about the trial.

  That's why I dilute it in another drink. Aloe vera gel is usually clear, but some Aloe juices are amber colored. The amber colored aloe juices are not effective for me. It could be that when emodin is oxidized, it turns amber. Or maybe as you said, they remove the emodin. For me, only the clear aloe vera gel drinks and my personal diluted aloe gel drinks are effective.

  It took me 2 weeks of drinking it, 3 or 4 times a day before I started to see the full benefits. This tells me that there maybe some long-term benefit beyond stopping a single POIS event. Maybe it is also healing brain vasculature (blood vessels). The collagen promotion, wound healing and anti-inflammatory properties aloe vera are well documented in the cosmetics and skin care industries. Or maybe, it can reduce the total viral load slowly over time.

Also, what do you think about Rhubarb extract as a source for Aloe Emodin:  Ref: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24685589
Rhubarb extract is easily available and it also has 3-5% Aloe Emodin, whereas Aloe Vera we buy might not have any Emodin in it?  What do you think on the best source of getting this Aloe Emodin.

  From my understanding, aloe vera juice does not have as much emodin as the gel does. Aloe vera gel can be sourced here1 or here2. It should be diluted as 1 Tbs of aloe vera gel per 8oz of water (or other drink). This can be consumed daily 3 times a day. I have already started testing aloe vera gel mixed in a juice with some good results. It clearly crosses the BBB and has positive cognitive effects. I'm thinking that aloe vera gel may be a very effective at stopping POIS. I'll post about my trial later.

There may be some good Rhubarb extracts out there, but I don't have any experience with it. Any supplemental form of aloe-emodin will ultimately have to be dissolved in a liquid base in order to enter the blood stream. Since aloe gel is already in a liquid base that makes things easy. Rhubarb extract may work though, I just don't know. Also, I am assuming the effects of aloe vera are due to aloe-emodin, but there could be other active ingredients as well. But if you try Rhubarb extract, let me know how it goes. I may switch to Rhubarb if it is cheaper, LOL! I did see that Rhubarb has been used to treat HSV-1 cold sores (in the Treatment Approach: herbs section).

[Quantum]

Thank you Quantum on this good tip.   I placed order for Raw Probiotics 100 billion CFU's.  They are pricey but if I can get rid of this methane it is worth.  Sugar I cannot help.  Placed an order  Gymnema Sylvestre 400 mg.  I am hoping it can take away the intense want for sugary substances I have.   
 

What works best for me, for intestinal gas, is taking good quality probiotics, with both lactobacillus and bifidus ( more than one strain of each in it), and take it for some time, to rebuild a good gut flora.  And, obviously, avoiding sugars - not only simple sugars like in desert or sweets, but also staying away from bad complex sugars like starch in white bread ( I eat only whole cereals bread), and avoiding too much potatoes as well ( very rich in starches, which become glucose when digested - I have swicth to kale and broccoli   )  .   

The sugars in the gut, when digested by a bad flora, lead to fermentation, so to methane/gas production.  This is the origin of the bloating. One sure sign that this is the case, is that the bloating is better in the morning ( after a night of fasting), and is worsening as you eat during the day, and is worst at the end of the day.

Well, sugar is not unlike a kind of drug.  You have to withdraw from it in a progressive manner,.   Like 10% less a week, to slowly get used to a lower intake of it.

[aswinpras06]

Here is another edible aloe vera gel drink

https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B01N9MCIFB/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

But no details regarding amount of aloe emodin and other anthraquinones.

I've bought this one and will post the results after using it very soon.  I have dormant viral infection and if this works it should be an excellent and safe way to prevent them from becoming virulent.

[nanna1]

Hi aswinpras06,

Thanks for posting the aloe vera link. I started with aggressive daily dosages 4 times a day for the first 2 weeks. I also took a dose before and after orgasm. I'm still experimenting to see what is the minimum dose.

[nanna1]

For me, the results of aloe vera gel were inconsistent. Some brands seemed to work while others did not. So I cannot say that aloe vera gel has a clear effect.

[swell]

just to update:  I tried aloe vera gel brand that nanna1 suggested.  I felt as if it was causing me sinus and throat issues so I had to stop it.  Strangely my throat is sensitive to certain things like vinegar, lemon and now I'll have to add aloe vera to it.  In past I took diluted aloe vera juice and that too I remember I didn't feel good so stopped it.  So my new trial was short lived.  Though I do hope it helps others, since aloe emodin as nanna1 research shows seems to be a very potent substance.   

[Vandemolen]

I will stop with taking fish oil. I have been taking it for a few years. Maybe fish oil is one of the causes of my histamine flushes and my rash. Beside that my DAO is destroyed by antibiotics. Fish oil is giving me heart burn. I will use vegan Omega 3. Fish contains omega 3 because they eat omega 3 containing algae. It takes 220 kilo of fish to produce 1 liter of fish oil. So using vegan omega 3 is also better for the environment.

Fresh fish is healthy, but fish oil could be fermentated. And fermenated food and drinks are high in histamine.

https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2018/03/19/boost-your-dao-levels-to-fight-histamine/

[Jacob]

Hi nanna1,

which of aloe vera brands you posted worked for you?

[Jacob]

I wondered whether we could overcome the problem of bioavailability by vaporising some of the substances. Camomile, fennel and other natural herbs could be consumed this way. For example does this post (https://medium.com/cbd-origin/what-is-cbd-bioavailability-and-why-does-it-matter-69d9a2e37e6c) compare the bioavailability of CBD through digestion (4-20%), sublingual (12-35%) and vaporising (34-46%). Camomile and fennel teas already have a significant influence on my symptoms, even when taken a post medication.

I might do a trail just by inhaling both.

Does anyone have experience with vaporising substances?

[b_jim]

Camomile and fennel teas already have a significant influence on my symptoms, even when taken a post medication.

This is  the first time you talk about these plants ? Do you just take them recently ?

[Muon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamomile#Research

Go to the research section of that page. I'm not surprised, the main compounds are natural mast cell stabilizers.

[nanna1]

Hi nanna1,

which of aloe vera brands you posted worked for you?

Hi Jacob,
OKF Aloe Organic

[berlin1984]

  I noticed a while back that chewing gum could reduce my POIS symptoms by 50% or more. Originally, I thought this was from the chewing motion. But later I found out that essential oils (peppermint, spearmint, eucalyptus, thyme) are used in some gums to produce cooling, warming, tingling, spicy sensation in the mouth. Cough drops that contain menthol, camphor and thymol were also anti-inflammator in my case. The reason I bring this up is because essential oils are dirt cheap.

In some countries, people even seem to be addicted to those herb scents.

E.g. Thailand https://medium.com/@oranavelarde/what-is-the-deal-with-nasal-inhalers-in-thailand-5edf1d44c6a2 http://www.thailandbreeze.com/thai-inhalers-ya-dom.html

This has their downsides thogh, I think it was camphor(?) that on the long run can kill the ability to sense smell.