New ideas about POIS and review of excitotoxicity

[Quantum]

Hi CP2,

I do not search for any, so I didn't notice.  But from what I know, mainstream commercial vegetable juices rely strongly on tomato juices base, like V8 and Garden Cocktail for example, and they have been shown to be far too acid for my stomach, back when I tried them, before I had started to look for organic food.

But I definitively think that organic veggies are way better.   Chemical like pesticides cannot be of any positive value, and I am not found of GMO neither.

[certainlypois2]

Hi CP2,

I do not search for any, so I didn't notice.  But from what I know, mainstream commercial vegetable juices rely strongly on tomato juices base, like V8 and Garden Cocktail for example, and they have been shown to be far too acid for my stomach, back when I tried them, before I had started to look for organic food.

But I definitively think that organic veggies are way better.   Chemical like pesticides cannot be of any positive value, and I am not found of GMO neither.

Thanks, I will see if i can find one. I am interested in trying an organic diet for pois but cant afford it right now. Right now I just need the juice to increase veggie and fruit intake, my intake is to low. I  prefer drinking them to eating them.
Isn't scientific consensus on gmo is that they are okay.

[Quantum]

Isn't scientific consensus on gmo is that they are okay.

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/blogs/science-matters/2009/09/more-science-needed-on-effects-of-genetically-modifying-food-crops/

[romies]

I remember that Kurtosis had been using NAD supplements, and had reported positive effects.  In his way od seeing things, he said he used NADH in order to recycle BH4, if L- Methylfolate does not work or is not well tolerated.  I never tried NADH myself, because I have found something that works before going there ( some other members did not have good results with NADH, though).   However, it is interesting to note that niacin also help recycle BH4, as well as vitamin C and resveratrol.  ( Vitamin C is clearly a winner in POIS:  recycles BH4, promotes oxytocin production, good antioxidant, and clears excess histamine   ...  and it is cheap and readily available.  I often use it for any residual symptoms of POIS, in small but frequent doses, like 125mg every 2 to 4 hours, never exceeding 1000mg a day... I prefer to complete with other things, like resveratrol or other antioxidants or anything on my "preferred" list )

Your hypothesis is interesting, though, and I really enjoy discussing this with you.  If you try NADH supplements, let me know of the results.   If it's essentially a NAD+ depletion, NAD+ supplement would make the emotional and cognitive symptoms disappears.  If it is an accumulation of kynurenine and its toxic metabolites, blocking the KP through inhibiting both IDO and TDO should be more effective. 

I have tried NADH, NAD+, NR supplements in the past.

NADH 20mg (Now foods) was and still is amazing. Very stimulating, so I only take it in the morning, when I need it (probably once a month or less). And most of its effect seems to derive from elevating BH4 levels:
1. feeling of more dopamine, serotonin in brain
2. peripheral NO synthesis : my hands/feet would get very warm from improved circulation.

NAD+ (sublingual), and NR do not have any effect on me.

NAD+ only has a 2hr half life: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2852209/ So I consider it low-risk supplement.

[romies]

• HNMT ? which requires SAMe as a cofactor (and this requires an effective MTHFR enzyme to help produce SAMe)
• DAO ? which requires vitamin B6 and copper
• MAO ? which requires vitamin B2 and iron
• NAT2 ? which requires CoA which stems from vitamin B5

DAO metabolizes histamine outside of cells, and exists only in small intestine and colon, placenta and kidney
DAO does not consume VB6 when breaking down histamine

HNMT is metabolizes histamine mostly within a cell, and exists in most tissues
HNMT does consume 1 molecule of SAM-e when breaking down 1 molecule of histamine.

Since you have C677T heterozygous, you will need some methylfolate or SAM-e supplement to help HNMT to break down histamine.

Details: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/5/1185

[trusttheprocess]

Romies, thanks for your suggestions, I never tried DAO or NADH but both should help POIS sufferers.  I have been taking SAM-e and methylfolate for a long time, I agree they are essential for someone with an MTHFR mutation (30-40% of people).   

I wanted to let everyone know that I will be testing an antifungal drug against POIS in the next few days.  I'm still in shock I got a doctor to let me try this, I haven't even gotten my urine culture back yet, and I didn't even have to go to the doctor to get him to agree to this. I cancelled my appointment because I was in the middle of POIS, he asked how I was and if there was anything he could do to help, so I sent him this message:

"Thanks for checking in with me!  I'm alright, just having a flare up of a chronic condition, nothing I haven't dealt with before.  If you would like to help I'd greatly appreciate your opinion on something.  My condition (chronic prostatitis) is notoriously hard to treat, as it's a syndrome with many forms, and the first line of treatment is antibiotics even though this only helps a small portion of patients.  It is also known that bacteria are not involved in its pathogenesis.  This disease has a great number of systemic effects and lowers quality of life significantly, so I've been doing a lot of research on it.  I heard many reports of low carb diets helping, and this is helping me, but I'm still having serious symptoms.  Many people believe that low carb diets treat prostatitis by starving out fungal species, which are normally present in the body as commensal organisms, but can also lead to serious infection.  There was a study that treated 1000 prostatitis patients with a low carb diet and a common anti fungal drug flucanazole, and there was a significant improvement in 80% of patients.  It is a rather unorthodox treatment, but one I'd like to try, as I have been given many rounds of simultaneous antibiotics and corticosteroids for chronic bronchitis.  This not only suppresses the antifungal immune response, but also eliminate the bacteria that compete with it.  During flare ups of my condition my urine becomes cloudy, so I went to the doctor a few days ago to get a urine culture, but they said the lab ordinarily only tests for bacteria, and cultures for fungi are unreliable (they didn't even test for it in the study I mentioned).  I'm starting a new semester of college soon and I really want to try this treatment, I missed more than a quarter of my classes last semester dealing with flare ups of this condition, do you know any doctors that might be open to me trying this?"

To my surprise he got back and said he had read about this, agreed with all that I had researched, and would be glad to write me a prescription for an anti fungal.  The antifungal I mentioned, flucanazole, is a highly bio-available and effective anti fungal that is excreted through the urine.  Some candida species are resistant to it however, so hopefully the lab is testing for this if my urine cultures grew candida.

I hope I can report positive results very soon, but in the meantime for everyone else I have done a few days of research into what I think the best natural treatments for candida induced POIS.  My theory is that some candida has colonized some immune privileged or "sanctuary sites", a term that describes sites with a significant reduction or complete lack in immune system activity, such as the brain, spinal cord, eyes, testes, prostate, or epididymis.  I believe POIS is simply the leaking of candida into the bloodstream, a very serious finding as candida can get into the brain and cause death pretty quickly in immune compromised patients (or in our case, with flawed but intact immune systems, it will just make you feel like you're dying).  The barriers that prevent the immune system from reaching immune privileged sites can be passed by lipids that are small and nonpolar, properties that can be found in essential oils.  After looking over a few dozen scientific papers regarding anti-candida essential oils, I believe the following are the most promising for the treatment of POIS in order of most effective.  Do not take any of these without researching them yourself first, to make this easier I've put the active ingredient in parenthesis for most of these, which also helps with comparing them:

Sandalwood Oil
Lemongrass Oil (citral)
Coconut Oil (caprylic acid)
Winter Savory Oil/Oregano Oil (carvacrol)
Clove oil/Cinnamon Oil (eugenol)
Cinnamon Bark oil (trans-cinnamaldehyde)
Thyme oil/Black Cumin Seed Oil (thymol)
Black Walnut Oil (juglone)
Pau D'Arco Bark Oil (lapachol)
Olive Oil (hydroxytyrosol)
Eucalyptus Oil
Peppermint Oil
Tea Tree Oil
Garlic Oil (allicin)
Goldenseal Oil (berberine)
Ginger Oil (gingerol)
North American Ginseng Oil
Wormwood Oil
Grapefruit Seed Oil

[Quantum]

HI TTP,

I will be very interested to follow the results of your fluconazole treatment and your overall approach of POIS treatment.  Thanks for sharing your hypothesis and all the steps you make.

[romies]

Hi TTP,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences in dealing with Candidas and prostatitis.

1. Have you found a reliable way of testing your candida load? I understand it is normal for everyone to have a little bit of candidas in their guts. You just don't want to have an overgrowth. So I think it would be useful to quantify how much one has in his system.

For example, is urine D-Arabinitol test reliable in your experience?

2. What essential oil can get to those immune-privilege sites? Any thoughts?

Thanks and recover soon.

[certainlypois2]

can a fungal culture be done on semen

[Vandemolen]

Romies, thanks for your suggestions, I never tried DAO or NADH but both should help POIS sufferers.  I have been taking SAM-e and methylfolate for a long time, I agree they are essential for someone with an MTHFR mutation (30-40% of people).   

I wanted to let everyone know that I will be testing an antifungal drug against POIS in the next few days.  I'm still in shock I got a doctor to let me try this, I haven't even gotten my urine culture back yet, and I didn't even have to go to the doctor to get him to agree to this. I cancelled my appointment because I was in the middle of POIS, he asked how I was and if there was anything he could do to help, so I sent him this message:

"Thanks for checking in with me!  I'm alright, just having a flare up of a chronic condition, nothing I haven't dealt with before.  If you would like to help I'd greatly appreciate your opinion on something.  My condition (chronic prostatitis) is notoriously hard to treat, as it's a syndrome with many forms, and the first line of treatment is antibiotics even though this only helps a small portion of patients.  It is also known that bacteria are not involved in its pathogenesis.  This disease has a great number of systemic effects and lowers quality of life significantly, so I've been doing a lot of research on it.  I heard many reports of low carb diets helping, and this is helping me, but I'm still having serious symptoms.  Many people believe that low carb diets treat prostatitis by starving out fungal species, which are normally present in the body as commensal organisms, but can also lead to serious infection.  There was a study that treated 1000 prostatitis patients with a low carb diet and a common anti fungal drug flucanazole, and there was a significant improvement in 80% of patients.  It is a rather unorthodox treatment, but one I'd like to try, as I have been given many rounds of simultaneous antibiotics and corticosteroids for chronic bronchitis.  This not only suppresses the antifungal immune response, but also eliminate the bacteria that compete with it.  During flare ups of my condition my urine becomes cloudy, so I went to the doctor a few days ago to get a urine culture, but they said the lab ordinarily only tests for bacteria, and cultures for fungi are unreliable (they didn't even test for it in the study I mentioned).  I'm starting a new semester of college soon and I really want to try this treatment, I missed more than a quarter of my classes last semester dealing with flare ups of this condition, do you know any doctors that might be open to me trying this?"

To my surprise he got back and said he had read about this, agreed with all that I had researched, and would be glad to write me a prescription for an anti fungal.  The antifungal I mentioned, flucanazole, is a highly bio-available and effective anti fungal that is excreted through the urine.  Some candida species are resistant to it however, so hopefully the lab is testing for this if my urine cultures grew candida.

I hope I can report positive results very soon, but in the meantime for everyone else I have done a few days of research into what I think the best natural treatments for candida induced POIS.  My theory is that some candida has colonized some immune privileged or "sanctuary sites", a term that describes sites with a significant reduction or complete lack in immune system activity, such as the brain, spinal cord, eyes, testes, prostate, or epididymis.  I believe POIS is simply the leaking of candida into the bloodstream, a very serious finding as candida can get into the brain and cause death pretty quickly in immune compromised patients (or in our case, with flawed but intact immune systems, it will just make you feel like you're dying).  The barriers that prevent the immune system from reaching immune privileged sites can be passed by lipids that are small and nonpolar, properties that can be found in essential oils.  After looking over a few dozen scientific papers regarding anti-candida essential oils, I believe the following are the most promising for the treatment of POIS in order of most effective.  Do not take any of these without researching them yourself first, to make this easier I've put the active ingredient in parenthesis for most of these, which also helps with comparing them:

Sandalwood Oil
Lemongrass Oil (citral)
Coconut Oil (caprylic acid)
Winter Savory Oil/Oregano Oil (carvacrol)
Clove oil/Cinnamon Oil (eugenol)
Cinnamon Bark oil (trans-cinnamaldehyde)
Thyme oil/Black Cumin Seed Oil (thymol)
Black Walnut Oil (juglone)
Pau D'Arco Bark Oil (lapachol)
Olive Oil (hydroxytyrosol)
Eucalyptus Oil
Peppermint Oil
Tea Tree Oil
Garlic Oil (allicin)
Goldenseal Oil (berberine)
Ginger Oil (gingerol)
North American Ginseng Oil
Wormwood Oil
Grapefruit Seed Oil

Can you report back if the flucanazole helped you? I asked my doctor to give this medicine because I have candida because of antibiotics. I take those antibiotics against prostitis. After every O. my prostate gets infected. Then I take antibiotics. After two weeks the prostate infection is gone, but in the 3th week I get candida. And because of the candida I get another prostate infection. So I am in vicious circle. So now I want to abstain for a few weeks and stop antibiotics, then I hope the flucanazole will help. I also take VSL#3 and drink kefir and eat yoghurt and garlic.

[b_jim]

I don't want to create a new topic so I post this here.
The article is in french.
https://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/1523/Famille/article/detail/1628417/2013/05/07/Allergique-a-son-propre-sperme-il-a-eu-du-mal-a-etre-pere.dhtml

This man is allergic to his own semen.
But the CAUSE seems clear : when he was 11 years old he get a severe pain in pelvic region with testicular infection.
The contact between blood and sperm creates antibody.
According to this article : 5 to 10% of men create antibodies against semen !

The negative point : the article don't talk about symptoms.

[Vandemolen]

I don't want to create a new topic so I post this here.
The article is in french.
https://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/1523/Famille/article/detail/1628417/2013/05/07/Allergique-a-son-propre-sperme-il-a-eu-du-mal-a-etre-pere.dhtml

This man is allergic to his own semen.
But the CAUSE seems clear : when he was 11 years old he get a severe pain in pelvic region with testicular infection.
The contact between blood and sperm creates antibody.
According to this article : 5 to 10% of men create antibodies against semen !

The negative point : the article don't talk about symptoms.

I think my Pois started when I over masturbated and have a bit flood on my p.

[Muon]

I'm surprised Treg cells haven't been explored yet because they play a huge role in self tolerance. If allergies, auto-antibodies and MCAD have been explored then the next logical step would be investigation of Treg cells. About IL-17, my brother and I have low levels. People with local fungal outbreaks, should in my opinion, check their IL-17 level.

[Nas]

I'm surprised Treg cells haven't been explored yet because they play a huge role in self tolerance. If allergies, auto-antibodies and MCAD have been explored then the next logical step would be investigation of Treg cells. About IL-17, my brother and I have low levels. People with local fungal outbreaks, should in my opinion, check their IL-17 level.

I do have a fungal issue in my skin, I do not know what to call it but it's been since forever. All the doctor told me is that it is fungal. It doesn't cause me any issues other than pimples.

[Vandemolen]

I'm surprised Treg cells haven't been explored yet because they play a huge role in self tolerance. If allergies, auto-antibodies and MCAD have been explored then the next logical step would be investigation of Treg cells. About IL-17, my brother and I have low levels. People with local fungal outbreaks, should in my opinion, check their IL-17 level.

I do have a fungal issue in my skin, I do not know what to call it but it's been since forever. All the doctor told me is that it is fungal. It doesn't cause me any issues other than pimples.

Pityrosporum folliculitis is a fungal ‘acne’. Could it be PF? My doctor said that I have it. Ketonazole cream helps me.

[Nas]

I'm surprised Treg cells haven't been explored yet because they play a huge role in self tolerance. If allergies, auto-antibodies and MCAD have been explored then the next logical step would be investigation of Treg cells. About IL-17, my brother and I have low levels. People with local fungal outbreaks, should in my opinion, check their IL-17 level.

I do have a fungal issue in my skin, I do not know what to call it but it's been since forever. All the doctor told me is that it is fungal. It doesn't cause me any issues other than pimples.

Pityrosporum folliculitis is a fungal ‘acne’. Could it be PF? My doctor said that I have it. Ketonazole cream helps me.

I just looked up PF and I think I have it. But what I mostly have are patchy brown stains that keep growing in my chest and back region.

[Vandemolen]

I have PF in back region, chest and upper arms. POIS and antibtioics my PF worse. Daktarin (ketonazole creme) helps me a bit.

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2612.msg22753#msg22753

[Muon]

Pityrosporum folliculitis is a fungal ‘acne’. Could it be PF? My doctor said that I have it. Ketonazole cream helps me.

You mentioned Daktarin earlier. That one in gel form got me rid of oral fungal outbreak (there were literally fungal wires appearing in my mouth). There was a problem. Normally you would swallow the substance. When I did that I got literally flattened by it, my legs got weak and I collapsed to the ground and my immune system felt extremely weak, never experienced something like this. So I called the doc and she said it never happened before, she contacted the producer and they told her I was the first case that experienced something like this. They advised me not to swallow it just flush the mouth. I still don't know why I reacted so extreme to it (herxheimer?). If that was a herxheimer reaction then perhaps I should take it again.

[Vandemolen]

Pityrosporum folliculitis is a fungal ‘acne’. Could it be PF? My doctor said that I have it. Ketonazole cream helps me.

You mentioned Daktarin earlier. That one in gel form got me rid of oral fungal outbreak (there were literally fungal wires appearing in my mouth). There was a problem. Normally you would swallow the substance. When I did that I got literally flattened by it, my legs got weak and I collapsed to the ground and my immune system felt extremely weak, never experienced something like this. So I called the doc and she said it never happened before, she contacted the producer and they told her I was the first case that experienced something like this. They advised me not to swallow it just flush the mouth. I still don't know why I reacted so extreme to it (herxheimer?). If that was a herxheimer reaction then perhaps I should take it again.

Wow that must be frightening. The oral gel of Daktarin did not help me much. But Daktarin for the skin helped me a bit againgt PF. But it also helped that the 3 weeks of antibiotics were passed. I had no side effects from both Daktarin’s.

[Nagisa]

Wow, I?m so glad to find this forum. I came here while researching kynurenine pathway.

My story:

One year ago, I used fluoxetine for my generalized anxiety. I started with 10 mg and I continued it for 20 days.

Even at early days, it gave me some symptoms like hypersomnia. I couldn?t stand it and stopped it cold turkey.

But symptoms remained. Progressively worsened to this day and still worsening day by day. There is not any window or something like that.

My symptoms are:

-Excessive sleepiness
-Cognitive impairment (Very, very much)
-İmpairment on visuoperception (I can barely see what I?m looking. I stopped to read some forums as I can?t read any text)
-İmpairment on fine motor skills. (I was able to type 10 finger before. Now I?m can barely type one word.)
- All of the issues of estrogen doninance (joint pain, muscle weakness, body shape chances, fat on belly, low libido, men boobs?!)
- Inability to taste
- Random tremors (my muscles twitching at random times.)
- Gut problems. (These are very bad when I?m at a silent room)
- Additionaly to these bad side effects, my excessive anxiety completely gone.


I have read tons of things since that day. My final theory is that fluoxetine disrupted my kynurenine pathway. Studies shows that these antidepressants increases KAT and decreases KMO. Excess kynurenic acid blocks most of the excitatory receptors.


So why I don?t try a KAT inhibitor? I don?t know if there is an inflammation or not. I can fry my brain if I do something wrong. You guys seemed very informed to me. Also I think I have POIS too. Because the biggest thing that make me worse is masturbation. I?m permanently crashing after every orgasm.

My cognitive side effects are gone so bad that I?m not able to research anymore. I?m wanting help at this point. What should I do now?