Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?

[certainlypois2]

I don't think so cause I remembered taking the medication at night and at morning and I didn't notice a difference, plus the mytelase is not available in my country so I'm stuck with the donepezile.

I tried it to, i didnt feel anything for pois. I knew it was getting to the brain though because it mad my dreams more vivid and it made my stomach feel wierd one time.

[Nas]

Hello Quantum, so in the next days a DAO supplement package is going to arrive what do you think ? could the dao do something ? also I ordered a non-flush niacin some guys told me that nonflush won't work but the comments on the amazon page say that it works for them. hopefully I could get a real result out of it.

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

Since nothing is clear about the cause of POIS, it is hard to tell what supplement will help you, so you have to test them safely, one by one, in order to know what will be of help for yourself.

If Dr Waldinger is right and there is an hypersensitivity reaction at the base of POIS, this imply a massive production of histamine in the body..  Thus, in this context, DAO should be useful in order to help the body getting rid of histamine excess  ( DAO is one of the main enzymes that metabolises histamine in the body).  This is theory, and reality is not always like predicted in theory, of course.

Do you have food intolerance?  Do you have headaches ? Those are symptoms that are told to be associated with histamine intolerance, which is the main reason why people try DAO supplements.  If you have these, it may be of help.  For POIS, one member has reported good results, others said it was not of any help, so like any other supplements talked about on this forum, it helps some, and not others, and there are no predictable factors yet telling what supplement would be effective for what type of POIS.  Everyone has to take its own decision to try or not a specific supplement  ( as usual, by consulting before with a health professional, and using safe dosage)

However, when I first arrived on this forum, I have tried to a chart that could allow some predictions, by noting what supplement has been effecive for what member, and for what symptoms. After hours and hours of work, I realized it was quite difficult, mainly because what is shared on the forum is rarely cleared and detailed, which is normal, because it is not scientific reporting here, just members sharing what they have tried.  However, I did notice that niacin tend to be effecive for those who have what I call "cluster 2" symptoms  ( see my classification of symptoms at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2027.msg15927#msg15927  ), but there are exceptions, of course.  So those who have mainly brain fog, cognitive symptoms, muscle twitch, muscle weakness, dermatological symptoms, and other pellagra-like symptoms like digestive problems, tend to have some level of relief with niacin.  If you have such symptoms, niacin may be of help for you.

In any case, I wish you luck with your testing, and that you hopefully will find some relief with at least one of these two !

[Nas]

Hopefully... I'm not expecting much really but I don't know why the histamine theory really convinced me

[Nas]

Hey Quantum, ever considered anti-histamines ? I mean I know DAO may not work but other anti-histamine might. I'm really starting to by into this immune response theory. And the anti-histamines might still not work for others because there are different types of anti-histamines and as we could know that pois symptoms are branching and I wouldn't be surprised if that the types and the symptoms are connected. As you said this forum does not give us analyzable scientific so we can't know for sure how a certain anti-histamine would connect to a type of symptoms.
What do you think ? Although I still did not try the dao supplement but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work   

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

When I first found the forum, and read about my problem possibly being of allergic nature, I sure tried some anti-histamine.  I had experience with them, since I had severe hay fever as a child. 

Benadryl ( dyphenydramine) and older anti-Histamine products cause me way too much drowsiness to be of any help.  Second generation anti-histamines are ok, like Claritin ( loratadine).  But for me , currently,  quercetin, in particular combined with bromelain and vitamin C, is my favorite way to block histamine release, and more broadly, stabilizing the mast cells.  I take it along with a combination or other antioxidants and other natural products that  also help in reducing the production of inflammatory cytokines in my body  ( hence my use of a stack of natural supplements as a pre-E pack).  My choice of quercetin over loratadine is that quercetin does more than just blocking histamine ( it is also a TDO inhibitor, among other things), and gives me energy, which is a real bonus in POIS.  Another reason is that I always keep in mind the cost/effectiveness ratio of my pre-pack, and second generation anti-histamine are more expensive than quercetin and bromelain, obviously.  This same cost/effectiveness have lead me to put aside Moducare as a "regular" of my pre-pack, even if it is a very good natural product for blocking allergic reaction and inflammation - but as expensive as second generation antihistamine  ( I have written already on this forum about Moducare, here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1565.msg14665#msg14665 ).

[Nas]

Hmmm, what's the type of anti-histamine quercetine is ? because it's sure didn't work for me.

[Quantum]

Hmmm, what's the type of anti-histamine quercetine is ? because it's sure didn't work for me.

Quercetin is not an anti-histamine ( it does not block the H1 receptors), it is a mast cells stabilizer, meaning it prevent mast cells to activate and release their granules full of histamine.   Not the same way to prevent histamine effects.


( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22470478 as a reference)

[Nas]

Hi, Quantum.
So the DAO supplement arrived with the Niacin(non-flush) and I've tried em out. I've tried the DAO without O and it didn't do anything. After that I've tried the DAO supplement with the Niacin (Non-Flush) and I even tried with it loratadin and nothing worked.

[Quantum]

Hi, Quantum.
So the DAO supplement arrived with the Niacin(non-flush) and I've tried em out. I've tried the DAO without O and it didn't do anything. After that I've tried the DAO supplement with the Niacin (Non-Flush) and I even tried with it loratadin and nothing worked.

You had the exact same symptoms severity, and exact same duration?  Not even a slight improvement?

[Nas]

I'm not sure if there was an improvment but all I know is that I did want to talk to nobody after wards as usual and today I feel I lost all my social skills again.
Not mentioning brain fog and consentration issues.

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

I suggest you - and any other member, for that matter - start using a chart and noting separately each one your different symptoms, like from 1 to 10, and their exact duration, in order to detect any relief a particular substance can bring you.  There is not much cases where only one single substance have brought almost total relief to a POIS sufferer, so it is better not to wait for that kind of spectacular result, and start looking for minor relief as a beginning, and building from there.

That is how, at least, that i personally got to 80%- 100% relief on a constant basis.

Nobody has to do that if not motivated to - I am  just trying to help, here.

[Nas]

Idk man, I guess I'll try the flush niacin and a beta blocker with a h1 antihistamine.
The result should be clear if it works no matter the composition. But I didn't have high hopes anyway with these substences.

[Nas]

What would you use for a beta-bocker ? I'm not sure about the one I'd choose.

[Nas]

Also for Antinicotinic/Anticholinergics what would you use ?

[Quantum]

What would you use for a beta-bocker ? I'm not sure about the one I'd choose.

Hi Nas,

One of my most debilitating POIS symptoms ( when I do not take my prevention pack) is a marked hypotension, causing me severe exercise intolerance, dizziness, fatigue, and the like.  So clear that I used to measure my blood pressure as a mean to note the beginning and end of my POIS ( no longer, since I do not have any hypotension anymore as long as I stick to my prevention method).  Beta-blockers.  Since beta-blockers are anti-hypertensive agents ( they lower BP), they wouldn't be good for me.

Anyway, you would have to talk this over with your physician, they are prescription only, as they have many potential side effects.

What's the rational, again, behind the use of beta-blockers in POIS ?  Another member got good results with it ?  For what symptoms ?

[Quantum]

Also for Antinicotinic/Anticholinergics what would you use ?

Again, for what purpose do you think an anticholinergic would be helpng you with your POIS?

Personally,  I have used ginger capsules in the past ( available OTC in Canada as "Gravol Natural") in the past for its anticholinergic properties, good for nausea, dizziness, and "cholinergic stress", manifesting for me as over active bowels and agitated thoughts.  I no longer use this, however.  Ginger was my preference over other OTC drugs having strong cholinergic effects like what is produced by diphenhydramine ( Benadryl), which causes me way too much drowsiness and mental slow down, which are normal anticholinergic effects, as well as constipation and dry mouth to name a few.

[Nas]

Yeah, so I'm going with the Adrenalin theory as I try to block the excess Adrenalin rush, which could be the main reason for our cognitive symptoms. Also will try to block histamine which normal H2 blockers didn't work for I'll try different ones, I remember some one here in the forum pointed out the H1 receptor, so will try it first. Anyways thank god in my country no gives a shit about prescriptions lol, they just give it to you if asked them, and I can't find a doctor that will just prescribe it to me as they still think that I have mental issues and not physical ones. I'm kinda stuck on my self on buying the medications I use.

[Nas]

Also, my bad I actually took an h1 anti-histamine and it didn't work so I'll be trying h2 and I just asked abou the h3 and h4 and we don't have them here.

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

About H3 and H4 blockers, they are not available anywhere yet, they are still at the research and development level.

About the beta-blockers, if you are sure that you want to try them, be sure to use the lowest dose possible  ( Arun has shared that 10mg of propranolol was effective for him, and that's the lowest adult dose, see his post at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2335.msg19396#msg19396  ). If you do not have any doctor, at least consult with a health professional, like a pharmacist, and check for the contra-indications and precautions, and potential side effects ( I know there are some countries, like yours, where you can buy anything without prescription, except narcotics or other controlled drugs... I saw that in Mexico, for example, when I traveled there).  At any rate, avoid any controlled release/long action formulations like Inderal L.A.  Check your blood pressure after before, and some time after taking it.

I want to make it clear that I do not endorse at all self-use of prescription drugs, but I understand that in countries where there are no strict control of most of the prescription drugs, people are quite free to buy and take them... If your country is such a country, be sure to take all the information possible before trying any of these prescription drugs  ( If they are classified as such, it is for a reason, and be sure to know why BEFORE taking it, and know about dosage, side effects, and so on ).