Author Topic: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?  (Read 39355 times)

Nas

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Yeah, I'm well aware of that.
So yesterday I tried propranolol 10mg with a rantidin 150mg and after that I had an O, I can tell that I disconnected again and began to experiance symptoms but let's say that there were at least 20% less symptoms, as I was a little bit more balanced especially when I talked to my parents, not perfect at all, but I can imagine being worse.
Next, will be trying an anti-cholinergic and let's see.
And again, yes quantum I'm well aware of the medications I use and I do a full search on their mechanics as soon as I bring them home.

Quantum

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Great, Nas, I am glad that you have a very safe approach.

Well, 20% relief is some improvement.   You can slowly and safely build around that 20% to try to get a little more relief. 

As you tried two new medications at once, it is hard, though, to know which one brought the relief, or if it was the combination of the two.
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Nas

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Hello, Quantum
So I just wanted to update you on how things are going with me lately.
So I ordered Niacin (Flush) and Taurin 1000mg ( some guys at FB group tryed it and it worked for them ), I tryed the niacin 500mg at the morning and flushed and after an hour and a half I had an O but was nothing different, same old symptoms back at it again, I don't think the symptoms were less by any means. Then out of fraustration I think after about 5min I took a Taurin but also nothing happened.
I'm kinda fraustrated by this, as I really though that it will work for me but it didn't. I'm currebtly out of options I don't know what else to try, college is coming soon and things are not looking good for me.

Quantum

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Hi Nas,

Niacin does not work for everybody.  In fact, nothing works for everybody, that's the reason I have an ongoing project called "POIS Types Chart", according to different methods of getting relief  ( it is found at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 )

I have read back this thread.  You have experienced 20% to 40% of relief when urinating after ejaculation, and you had 20% relief with ranitidine and propranolol.  You should try combining those two partly successful elements.  If you use again ranitidine and propranolol, in the same safe dose, and also urinate shortly after O, you might get, who knows, 50% relief.  My experience is that small relief that I get from different substances and methods do stack and bring a higher level of relief.  I wish you the same. 

For any significant results, you should try this more than once, because POIS tends to fluctuate in severity from one ejaculation to the other, so results are not always obvious.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 07:31:35 AM by Quantum »
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Nas

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Beautiful chart Quantum, and I think I'll be trying the anti-histamine method, you see the method uses loratadin daily which I only used before and after ejaculation, also he uses benadryl which I didn't use, so maybe it will work better ? One can only hope. Also I did also notice that Niacin might actually have worsen the sypmtoms than have lessened it. Idk I always though the anti-histamine even though it might never cured the cognitive symtoms, I think it was refreshing physically so I'll put my hope next on the anti-histamine. And as always I'll keep you updated. And it'll be also cool if you keep me updated on your charts and anything you find new and might be helpful.

demografx

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« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 03:49:41 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Nas

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Re: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2016, 07:09:55 AM »
Hi, Quantum.
Just a broad medical question, is there a connection betweel microglia cells and histamine ?

Quantum

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Re: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2016, 08:57:22 AM »
Hi Nas,

Microglial cells are immune support cells for the neuraonal cells in the brain and spinal cord.  Their most important role is to absorb by phagocytosis ( = "swalloging") infectious agents ( germs) as well as dead neurones and other debris.  They also produce a variety of pro-inflammatory cytokines and other immune messengers, in order to stimulate other microglial cells when there is a lot of work to do ( alarm function).  They are not unlike specialized macrophage in the brain.

Histamine do not have a main role on controlling the activity of the microglia, but some studies have found that it may modulate some of their activities, in particular their secretion of some specific cytokines, like IL-1.  See for example at http://jneuroinflammation.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1742-2094-9-90 .  They also have some other minor effects, as seen at https://www.docphin.com/research/article-detail/18628117/PubMedID-27381299/Histamine-regulation-of-microglia-Gene-environment-interaction-in-the-regulation-of-central-nervous-system-inflammation.

Overall, the immune system is very complex.  Each of its numerous parts is in itself very complex.  Ypu could see microglia has one of this part, with about 100 knobs or more that control and modulate its actions.  Histamine may act on 4 to 5 of the 100 knobs of microglia control board, so its effect appears limited, as far as current medical knowledge tells us.

What is the motivation behind your question, Nas?  You think the microglial cells have a role in POIS ?

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Nas

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Re: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2016, 09:36:15 AM »
Ok, so today out of fraustration I've done a small research trying to figure out pois mechanics, but this time, I started from the top ( from the brain fog symptom ). I realised that brain fog is a well known symptom of inflammation and that microblia cells activity is associated with  inflammation caused brain fog. So I wondered how could I suppress the microblia cells activity in the first place. Currently it looks like I need to suppress the Cytokines modulers activity first but it's not that simple giving the fact there is no well known medication today that does that job and the fact the cytokines modulers are very branched, it's hard to work on this. Also I figured out that anti-histamines that cross the BBB could do this job based on the Anti-histamine treatment..... I don't know I need to try to tell.

Quantum

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Re: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2016, 08:44:24 PM »
Hi Nas,

Interesting investigation.  Basically, anything that has anti-inflammatory properties is blocking one or more pro-inflammatory cytokines, or blocking some process leading to their production and liberation in the surrounding tissues.   For it to be useful in the brain, it must also passes the blood brain barrier.

Some examples:

Mast cells stabilizers, by reducing their "degranulation"  ( meaning the release by mast cells of immune messengers, including cytokines - they do not release histamine only) will be of help.  so, quercetin is helping in this way,   

Curcuma, which has anti-inflammatory properties, and this is linked in part to the suppression of the liberation of certain types of cytokines  ( see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25044589 , as an example). Curcuma does pass through the blood brain barrier, so it may contribute to reduce inflammation in the brain  ( it is even studied in Alzheimer disease - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26652155 )

Rosmarinic acid is another example ( see http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2004/11/report_allergy/page-01 - the article has scientific references at the end )

Ibuprofen, a common anti-inflammatory drug ( it is OTC here), is also useful to block the COX pathway.  Obviously, it passes the blood brain barrier too.  I think I remember Daveman saying he uses it when niacin has not been effective enough. 



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Quantum

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Re: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2016, 08:51:24 AM »
Hi Nas, and everyone,

This week I have found that L-Theanine may have mast cells stabilizing properties ( see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21344174 )

I was already using L-theanine for its anxiety reducing properties, and it is already part of my pre-ejaculation pack ( http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604 ).  I have included it since early 2015 as a NMDAr blocker, so good for anxiety, but I am glad to discover that its effect may be more than just that, and that L-theanine is also good as a mast cells stabilizer.  I already have quercetin included in my pre-pack for mast cells stabilisation.  Now I see that L-theanine may have been also contributing since the beginning to reduce histamine release and pro-inflammatory cytokines release from mast cells !   :)

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Nas

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Re: Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2016, 09:11:37 AM »
Ok, I might consider buying it. Although quercitin didn't work so I'm not sure about that. I feel I'm close to something here hopefully I am. It sucks though that most people her3 figured out something that helped them and I'm stuck here having to deal with these stupid symptoms

Nas

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So just for a note I remember having pois symptoms ( pretty much brain fog ) after inhaling a cigarette any reasonable explanation for that ? :/

Quantum

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I have never smoked myself - I had already enough health issues to add any other by choosing to smoke.  But you are not the first POIS sufferer to report problems with nicotine, see  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1562.msg14626#msg14626
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Nas

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So any possible explanation to why it happenes maybe mast cell activation when nicotin or other subtences inter our blood ?

Nas

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Hello, Quantum.
Just an update.
I tryed the diphenhydramine method and it didn't work out.
I tryed 25mg right before masturbating and nothing happened, same symptoms.
I have absolutely no Idea what to go for from now on.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:29:04 AM by Nas »

Quantum

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Hello, Quantum.
Just an update.
I tryed the diphenhydramine method and it didn't work out.
I tryed 25mg right before masturbating and nothing happened, same symptoms.
I have absolutely no Idea what to go for from now on.

Hi Nas,

Regarding the antihistaminic method, members that had success with it explained that they are taking a 24h antihistamine every day ( 10mg of Cetirizine (= Zyrtec, Reactine) or 10 mg of loratadine (Claritin) ), and, at time of O, 2x25mg of diphenhydramine.

In your post, you mention taking only one caps of diphenhydramine, and you do not mention any daily long-acting antihistamine.   Did you tried the whole protocol, that is, taking daily cetirizine or loratadine for a week or so, then 2x25 diphenydramine just before O ?  I think that if you consider this method interesting, and safe considering your condition and your health professional advice, you should try the whole thing, since a partial method of 25mg before O do not seems to work.

You can get some more details on this method ( and other methods) at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448  .  You will see, for example, that even a small change can modify results - Happy2 shared that taking cetirizine daily + 50mg diphenhydramine at O time is far more effective than the combo of loratadine daily + diphenydramine. 

If you did try the whole method for 3 to 4 weeks with no relief, than consider another method.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 09:46:29 AM by Quantum »
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Nas

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Hi, Quantum
I did get a loratadin with the bendryl so it wasn't only a bendryl, but more notably do you mean like have an abstence of like 3 weaks at least with daily consumtion of loratadin then after that try a ?2 bendryl or do you mean that I start my day with loratadin or let's say put it in my system then take ?2 bendryl and see where it goes from there ?

Quantum

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Hi Nas,

If I was to try the antihistamine method myself, I would do it in two phases:

I would first take loratadine 10mg daily for 5 to 7 days, and refrain from O during that period, and then, still taking a loratadine every day, have 2x25 benadryl at time of O, and go on with this for 2 to 3 weeks, having the time to test for 2 or 3 releases and noting the results each time, in term of % of relief and duration of symptoms.  Taking loratadin 10mg daily fora few weeks is quite safe, some people have to take this every day year round for non-seasonal allergies, but anyone has to check if it is safe for himself before doing so.

If I had unsatisfactory results with this, I would go for a second phase of testing, and would repeat the same protocol, but changing the loratadine with cetirizine, taking Reactine daily for 2 to 3 weeks, and benadryl, at time of O, and taking notes on the results, for one O a week, and compared with the previous phase results, and see what is the most effective.

In one month from now, you will have done most of this testing,

I would also have no more than 2 releases in the same week, and preferably only one per week, because I view any relief methods as limited, so better test any method with a relatively low frequency of ejaculation, unless I feel any method could become "overwhelmed" by the cumulative POIS triggering, and the data obtained are not conclusive ( a method could have been efficient if not for 3 ejaculations in 5 days, for example, but you never been able to see it)

As you see, I strongly believe that a rigorous, "scientific" testing is required in order to get anywhere when testing any relief method for POIS.  You do not have to actually put a white coat on, though, to do so ;-)  It only takes time, patience and a structured approach in order to find an efficient method.  I think it's better taking time to really goes through a method,  not overlooking a potential benefit, unless this method causes you clear side effects or disadvantage or worsening of POIS, so then you clearly have to stop to test it.  After methodical testing, and no significant results, then you will know that you have thoroughly tested that method and that it is not effective for your type of POIS.  You then can test another method  ( so many have been suggested on the forum so far, and the main ones are listed in my POIS types chart),

In my own case, I had to find things by myself ( I found this forum 2 years ago and have POIS for 38 years...), It took me years only to find that magnesium and green tea extract were giving me relief.  Once I have found this forum, it took me 5 to 6 months of intensive testing in order to come up with my current pre-pack.   So be patient, have a "POIS relief testing" notebook or file on your laptop where you note everything you test for further reference, and be patient, and you will find eventually something that will bring you some relief.  I would be surprised that after 6 months of structured tests, you would have not find at least a 50% relief whne lowering your frequency to about once a week.

Be sure to include in your overall method some healthy changes to your diet, it has been beneficial for many POIS sufferers.



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Nas

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I would be easily ok with this method but things for me are more complicated than this,
First, orgasm is nothing simple to deal with, it causes significant cognitive imparity that lasts about a full week, this cognitive impartiy leaves me absolutely disabled socially giving me hard time at job. And well, my job requires alot of socialising.
Secondly, getting a doctor or going out to buy a medication is not an easy task, not mentioning getting supplements shipped here takes alot of time, and, well... comunication with the shipping company.
So for me every orgasm is about 4 days worth of disapearing from society, Not if I wanted to stay cool anyways.
Thirdly all of this cause me mental issues like depression and anxiety, I can not stand the awkwardness of my own self, not being able to be communicative, respnsive, etc..
So definitly this method of indepth experimintation has some costs, and.. I don't know, I'm getting tired of this already.
Anyways, I think I will try this method and hopefully I'll bite my way out of it.
Thanks for the support anyways.